What is Handel's real name?
K
is giving me a headache.
First, what is proper, English way or German way?
I am talking about in a recital program.
Second, here are the spellings I've found on the net.
George Frederic Handel (Georg Friedrich handel -- Webster's Encyclopedic
Unabridged dictionary
George Frideric Handel -- http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/handel.html
George Frideric Handel -- http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/handel.html
George Frederick Handel -- http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/6194/index.htm
George Frideric Handel --
http://www.edinboro.edu/cwis/music/cordell/comp-handel2.html
Georg Frederich Handel --
http://www.edinboro.edu/cwis/music/cordell/comp-handel.html
It seems German spellings are consistent but English varies.
M. Slater
you like best. >Something as simple as Handel's name
Mark
Robert Gordon
> First, what is proper, English way or German way?
Well, since the larger part of his life was spent in England, where he became a
citizen, and also since almost all of his greatest works were written there under
his English name, I think that he should be considered an English composer.
> George Frideric Handel
This is the spelling I've always seen.
-- Rob Gordon
Pat Finley
=======================
Not sure how to handle Handel's handle, eh?
In English, I've seen it George Frederick and George Frideric; neither
of those could be faulted (nor could the German).
I don't think that the fact that Handel lived in England for many
years should necessarily count for much as to whether one should use
the English spelling, unless there is significant evidence that that
is the way 'he' spelled his name. There must be scores of celebrities
named Pierre, Ricardo, Jose, Maria, and a hundred other names who live
in this country but have not anglicized their 'christian' names.
I think the individual's own usage should be the determining factor --
but I don't know what Handel's preference was. It should also be said
that it was only about the time of Handel's death that English
spelling began to be less tolerant of alternate spellings. Even
well-educated men of that time might spell a word 'picnic' or 'panic'
one day and 'picnick' or 'panick' the next.
Pat
Matthew B. Tepper
news:1840f5ee.02060...@posting.google.com:
> Not sure how to handle Handel's handle, eh?
"Nobody handles Handel like you handle Handel!" Edgar Kennedy in
"Unfaithfully Yours."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
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Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
daniel f. tritter
the absolute insistence of the great musician himself that he be called
arthur [sic], from giving a pseudo authentic twist as artoor rubinstein.
they always felt and still do that this polyglot who spoke several
languages fluently and correctly didn't know how to pronounce his own
name.
dft
===========
tlste...@tpgi.com.au
You should remember that spoken language is the primary art, and graphical
representation of it (ie. spelling) is the secondary art. The purpose of
putting these little marks on paper (or on screen) is to inveigle the
(vocal) reader to make noises that will be recognisable and identifiable
say, to a listener who is a speaker of that language. Some of the
spellings listed above will cause the reader to make noises that would be
understandable to a German-speaker; other spellings would cause the reader
to make sounds that an English-speaker would recognise. We get the same
sorts of problems when we try to decide what might be the "correct"
spelling of a Russian composer's name. As long as the chosen spelling
causes the reader to make recognisable sounds, it has done its job. (The
only "correct" spelling would be one in Cyrillic.)
--
Cheers!
Terry
(remove the numbers if replying direct)
Mark D Lew
pfi...@mhfence.com (Pat Finley) wrote:
> I don't think that the fact that Handel lived in England for many
> years should necessarily count for much as to whether one should use
> the English spelling, unless there is significant evidence that that
> is the way 'he' spelled his name. There must be scores of celebrities
> named Pierre, Ricardo, Jose, Maria, and a hundred other names who live
> in this country but have not anglicized their 'christian' names.
Sure, and scores more who did change their names. (And so did another Georg
who moved from Hanover to London at about the same time that Handel did.)
If I were editing the program, I'd go with George Frideric Handel (and no
umlaut). I don't know how authentic it is, but it's clearly the dominant
standard in the literature.
mdl
AT
:-)))))))
AllenGaryK
>If I were editing the program, I'd go with George Frideric Handel (and no
>umlaut). I don't know how authentic it is, but it's clearly the dominant
>standard in the literature.
A sensible reply, and one based on the written evidence. Winton Dean's Handel
biography for The New Grove starts off:
George Frideric Handel*
*This was the spelling he ultimately used in England. He was baptized Georg
Friederich Ha"ndel, and that spelling is the one normally used in Germany. He
spelt his name Hendel in Italy, and at first in England (which may indicate the
pronunciation he expectd), but later signed 'Handel' without the Umlaut.
Gary
tlste...@tpgi.com.au
<spam...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> CHARLIE?
>
> :-)))))))
Peter??
Capa0848
>From: mark...@earthlink.net (Mark D Lew)
>Date: 06/08/2002 3:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>
>
>In article <1840f5ee.02060...@posting.google.com>,
>pfi...@mhfence.com (Pat Finley) wrote:
>
>> I don't think that the fact that Handel lived in England for many
>> years should necessarily count for much as to whether one should use
>> the English spelling, unless there is significant evidence that that
>> is the way 'he' spelled his name. There must be scores of celebrities
>> named Pierre, Ricardo, Jose, Maria, and a hundred other names who live
>> in this country but have not anglicized their 'christian' names.
>
>Sure, and scores more who did change their names. (And so did another Georg
>who moved from Hanover to London at about the same time that Handel did.)
Of course; but, assuming for a moment that Ricardo Montalban has lived in the
US for some years (and I don't know that he has), it would be absurd to call
him Richard, or Dick, because that is the Ameican practice, if *he* wishes to
be called Ricardo.
As I said earlier, the individual's own practice should be the guide -- in
another post, someone seems to have clarified how Handel spelled his name once
he game to England -- that should be the determining factor.
>If I were editing the program, I'd go with George Frideric Handel (and no
>umlaut). I don't know how authentic it is, but it's clearly the dominant
>standard in the literature.
--------------
Reference books can be puzzling; one familiar example I ran across recently is
Blake's famous line "Tyger! Tyger! burning bright"
Both my Penguin Book of Quotations and the on-line "Oxford Book of English
Verse" {Bartleby} give the line as "Tiger! Tiger!" as does the on-line
version of the Harvard Classics {Bartleby}.
A Google search gives ten times as many hits to "Tiger Tiger Burning Bright" as
are given to "Tyger Tyger Burning Bright".
But if one does a search on "The Tyger" one gets a litany of hits from what
sound like scholarly sources.
You pays your money and you takes your choice, I guess.
>
Pat
Matthew B. Tepper
56k-074.tpgi.com.au:
> In article <1auM8.74443$_p6.11...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "AT"
><spam...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> CHARLIE?
>>
>> :-)))))))
>
> Peter??
Door?
Mark D Lew
(Capa0848) wrote:
> Reference books can be puzzling; one familiar example I ran across recently is
> Blake's famous line "Tyger! Tyger! burning bright" [...]
"Songs of Innocence and of Experience" was published with Blake's own
illustrations and hand calligraphy. Blake clearly wrote "Tyger".
The image is available online at:
<http://images.umdl.umich.edu/cgi/i/image/getimage-idx?x=256&y=384&res=0&wid
th=512&height=768&cc=blake&entryid=X-1&viewid=42&view=image>.
Or if that link doesn't work for you, go to
<http://www.hti.umich.edu/b/blake/> and search for it.
> You pays your money and you takes your choice, I guess.
At first glance, one wonders why anyone would change Blake's spelling of
"Tyger", but if you read the original you'll notice that Blake also
misspells "seize". Should that be left as "sieze", as well, or is it an
error to be corrected? Evidently, editors differ on this question.
mdl
ken...@ukgateway.net
"the last part" while strictly accurate sort of implies the shorter
part.
In fact, as you can see from the excellent list of sites given, Handel
lived the "first part" outside England.
MK
On 07 Jun 2002 05:35:06 GMT, harpsic...@aol.comedy (M. Slater)
wrote:
_______________________________________________________________________
Michael Kenward Words for sale