Recommended Recording(s) of "Lohengrin" and "I Pagliacci"?
David Shengold
Please recommend good recording(s) of
Wagner's Lohengrin
Studio: Kempe's with Elisabeth Gruemmer, Jess Thomas, Christa Ludwig,
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.(Angel)
Live: Cluytens' with Leonie Rysanek, Sandor Konya, Astrid Varnay, Ernest
Blanc (Myto)
Both are sublime.
and Leoncavallo's I Pagliacci.
Karajan's with Carlo Bergonzi, Joan Carlyle, Giuseppe Taddei, Rolando
Panerai (DG)
Cellini's with Jussi Bjoerling, Victoria de los Angeles, Leonard Warren,
Robert Merrill (RCA)
Both terrific. The first a bit more exciting, the second incredibly
vocalized.
David Shengold
JJ
<fob...@inet.polyu.edu.hk> wrote:
> Hi there!
> First of all, I would like to thank those of you who gave me valuable
> suggestions regarding tenor(s) I should listen to.
> Another request : Please recommend good recording(s) of Wagner's
> Lohengrin and Leoncavallo's I Pagliacci.
> Thank you for you help!
>
> Regards,
> Monty
I'd suggest the Solti with Domingo/Norman on London for Lohengrin, a good
modern recording, well sung and conducted (yes it has its flaws, but it's
a good introductory recording). For I Pagliacci, choose the Karajan with
Bergonzi/Carlyle/Taddei on DG Originals -- a thrilling recording.
Jon
Jon A Conrad
>Please recommend good recording(s) of
>Wagner's Lohengrin
>Studio: Kempe's with Elisabeth Gruemmer, Jess Thomas, Christa Ludwig,
>Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.(Angel)
This is the almost universal recommendation, but I've never found it all
that enthralling despite the undeniable A-list look of the cast list.
I'd put in a recommendation for the newest recording on Teldec as being
remarkably satisfying in all respects: Emily Magee, Deborah Polaski, Peter
Seiffert, Falk Struckmann, Rene Pape; best of all, Daniel Barenboim's
conducting really molds them into a performance.
>Live: Cluytens' with Leonie Rysanek, Sandor Konya, Astrid Varnay, Ernest
>Blanc (Myto)
Yes; especially for Blanc's Telramund, which has a soaring freedom unheard
elsewhere.
>and Leoncavallo's I Pagliacci.
Parenthetical pedantry: The title is just plain PAGLIACCI, despite what
one will sometimes see on scores and record boxes. It's similar in this
respect to other no-article titles like MESSIAH, WINTERREISE, and
GOETTERDAEMMERUNG.
I can't improve on David's recommendations, though. Both superb, and for
nicely complementary reasons.
>Karajan's with Carlo Bergonzi, Joan Carlyle, Giuseppe Taddei, Rolando
>Panerai (DG)
>Cellini's with Jussi Bjoerling, Victoria de los Angeles, Leonard Warren,
>Robert Merrill (RCA)
Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
con...@udel.edu
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Wed, May 5, 1999 23:15 EDT
>Message-id: <7gr1hf$co2$1...@copland.udel.edu>
Thank you for getting the titles of these works properly specified.
-
Qhile I have copies of all the recordings mentioned here, and they are all
quite good, they are not my preferred renditions.
-
For LOHENGRIN I am inclined to favor the Leinsdorf recording: first for the
luxuriant sound of the Boston Symphony Orchestra so beautifully captured and
second for the rapturous account of the title role by Sandor Konya. Kempe's
record is lovely in all respects except for Jess Thomas' rather prosaic account
of the enigmatic hero.
-
As for PAGLIACCI, the Corelli / Gobbi / Amara recording is crisply conducted by
Lovro von Matacic and the Callas / Gobbi / DiStefano is also more theatrical
than the other offerings thanks to Serafin's unusually vital direction.
-
I would give an honorable mention for the Carreras / Muti PAGLIACCI because it
does let us hear the work (without cuts or high note intrerpolations) as
Leoncavallo wrote it.
-
==G/P Dave
Enrique Eskenazi
Lohengrin with Windgassen, Steber, Uhde, Varnay and Greindl, conducted
by Keilberth (live from Bayreuth 1953, in good sound on Teldec). This is
my first choice
Pagliacci with Merli, Pampanini and Galeffi, cond by Molajoli (available
in good sound on Arkadia 'The 78's')
Regards
---
Enrique
eske...@mail.sendanet.es
Io chi sono? Eh, non lo so.
-Nol sapete?
Quasi no.
David Shengold
Yes, the orchestra plays well,and Konya (also on the Cluytens) is great, but
the great Gorr is shrill and desperate, Amara ill suited tonally to Elsa,
Dooley fades at the top, and Hines is not in good voice. Calvin Marsh is OK
as the Herald. Chacun a son gout, but this would seem a odd recommendation
for a first LOHENGRIN.
David Shengold
----------
In article <19990506061001...@ng-fp1.aol.com>,
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
>>David Shengold <shen...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>Please recommend good recording(s) of
>>>Wagner's Lohengrin
>>
>>>Studio: Kempe's with Elisabeth Gruemmer, Jess Thomas, Christa Ludwig,
>>>Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.(Angel)
>>>Live: Cluytens' with Leonie Rysanek, Sandor Konya, Astrid Varnay, Ernest
>>>Blanc (Myto)
wk...@juno.com
"David Shengold" <shen...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Wagner's Lohengrin
>
> Studio: Kempe's with Elisabeth Gruemmer, Jess Thomas, Christa Ludwig,
> Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.(Angel)
I agree with Jon here; for me, this one really doesn't add up to the sum of
its parts (and I'm not as fond of Frick and DFD here as most people seem to
be). BTW, I heard a rumor yesterday that EMI and Schwarzkopf toyed with the
idea of her recording Elsa instead of Gruemmer - any truth to this one?
> Live: Cluytens' with Leonie Rysanek, Sandor Konya, Astrid Varnay, Ernest
> Blanc (Myto)
If a Rysanek Elsa isn't your idea of a good time, there's another live
performance from around the same time, with Gruemmer and Gorr (instead of
Varnay), and von Matacic conducting.
For a studio recording, I'd choose the new Barenboim; for live the 1962
Bayreuth performance with Silja, Thomas, Varnay, Vinay, and Crass.
Bill
--
William D. Kasimer
wk...@juno.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
GregF NC
Domingo/Solti recording. All of the artists are good with especial thanks to
Fischer-Dieskau's Herald (the Herald on the old EMI is hard to live with).
I tried to avoid this set because I have enough Domingo, but he does sing this
role better than anyone else on modern recordings.
Greg F(in North Carolina)
wk...@juno.com
gre...@aol.com (GregF NC) wrote:
> If a good modern version of Lohengrin is wanted, I would recommend the
> Domingo/Solti recording. All of the artists are good with especial thanks to
> Fischer-Dieskau's Herald (the Herald on the old EMI is hard to live with).
And thanks to Otto Wiener, Fischer-Dieskau is only the second-worst Herla don
records. With this role sung on records by the likes of Terfel, Schmidt,
Krause, and Trekel, it's hard for me to be grateful for DFD's bawling.
> I tried to avoid this set because I have enough Domingo, but he does sing this
> role better than anyone else on modern recordings.
He's a perfectly good Lohengrin, and this is one of his better recorded
Wagnerian efforts, although I prefer Heppner, Seiffert, Konya, and Jerusalem,
not to mention Volker and Melchior. Unfortunately, Domingo is still pretty
generic here, and most of his colleagues aren't even close to his standard
(as I recall, the Ortrud and Telramund are only slightly less unfortunate
than DFD's Herald).
Evil Poodles
>
>
> Studio: Kempe's with Elisabeth Gruemmer, Jess Thomas, Christa Ludwig,
> Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.(Angel)
> Blanc (Myto)
>
>
I have to agree that the Kempe is one of my favorite recordings of this opera,
though in fairness I should point out that this is rather more because of
Ludwig's Ortrurund and DFD's Telramund, than Gruemmer's Elsa or Thomas'
Lohengrin. (Don't get me wrong -- they're both fine, just not quite as
compelling to my ears as Ludwig and DFD.) Since the Kempe set is probably
mid-price now or lower, it's also good value for money, espcially if you're
trying to build a collection on a budget -- the cast is of a consistently high
quality, it's solidly conducted, and the sound is pretty good, so you can't go
wrong with this recording if you want to add Lohengrin to your collection at a
good price.
The new Barenboim version on Teldec is also a good bet: consistent cast,
good sound, generally well-paced and conducted, and very well played.
Barenboim also adds back some passages often cut from standard performing
(and even recorded) versions, so it does have the added value of
completeness. Maybe, just maybe, Barenboim sounds a little less engaged by
this opera than by the other Wagner opera's he's recorded. I find Peter
Seiffert's Lohengrin the "standout" performance of the set, and while one
might prefer other performances of the the remaining roles (e.g., as I prefer
Ludwig's Ortrud to Polaski's), the rest of the cast is pretty good overall,
and no one is an actual embarassment.
I inherited a copy of the Abbado version, with Jerusalem, Studer, Meier,
Welkerm, and Moll. Studer sounds a little disengaged, although I don't think
one could materially fault her vocalism. Jerusalem is engaged, but his voice
sounds a little worn and forced at the top. Meier is a wonderful Ortrud --
the vocalism isn't so sure and pure as Ludwig's, but it's definitely a
committed performance -- I think the best of the set. Welker's Telramund is
at best second-rate. I do like Abbado's conducting overall, and the sound is
fine. If you can pick this up used somewhere, it wouldn't be a bad purchase,
but I don't think Barenboim would be a better full-price choice and Kempe at
mid-price would also be my preference.
It's a wonderful opera -- happy listening, whatever you choose!
Evil Poodles
"I have a whole octave in my chest!"
Matthew B. Tepper
I'm pondering as follows...
>
>For a studio recording, I'd choose the new Barenboim; for live the 1962
>Bayreuth performance with Silja, Thomas, Varnay, Vinay, and Crass.
For a live one I'd have to go with Met 1935, Melchior and Lehmann.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
G Riggs
>Hi there!
>First of all, I would like to thank those of you who gave me valuable
>suggestions regarding tenor(s) I should listen to.
>Another request : Please recommend good recording(s) of Wagner's
>Lohengrin and Leoncavallo's I Pagliacci.
>Thank you for you help!
For Lohengrin, I have become more and more enthralled with the live Matacic
b'cast from Bayreuth (1959). William Kassimer has already made reference on
this thread to this one, though he goes on to recommend others as top
choices. I would respectfully demur. Though other choices, both those of
Mr. Kasimer's and those of others, each have their virtues, the twin
advantages of "live" performance and of quite good sound (at least on the
Melodram release I now have -- hardly the most reliable label sonically) are
the icing on the cake to a performance that is both vocally beautiful and
dramatically compelling.
Konya (Lohengrin), Gorr (Ortrud), Gruemmer (Elsa), Blanc (Telramund), and
Crass (the Koenig) now strike me as uniformly satisfying in their roles and
as unified an ensemble as I've ever heard in this opera. Yes, there are
other fine Elsas (Eleanor Steber, for instance), other fine Lohengrins (for
instance, Placido Domingo), other fine Ortruds (the incomparable Christa
Ludwig), and on and on. But this 1959 performance just "clicks." I
seriously believe it may be one of the finest Wagner performances ever
preserved, let alone the finest Lohengrin of my experience.
Yes, other fine Lohengrins deserve consideration (see my URL below), but
this remains in a class by itself, IMO. Others may feel I am going
overboard here. If so, de gustibus etc., as Tom K. often reminds us.
For Pagliacci, I'm frankly surprised that nobody has yet cited the 1954
Serafin on EMI. This studio recording, like the "live" Lohengrin, features
committed interpretations that create an artistic whole, with each artist
part of an ensemble that projects a consistent sense of place, a
self-sufficient world inhabited by flesh-and-blood characters. What's more,
Di Stefano (Canio), Callas (Nedda), Gobbi (Tonio), Panerai (Silvio), and
Monti (Beppe) are all in their vocal prime here.
As with Lohengrin, there are other Pagliacci recordings worth checking out
(again, see URL below), but I think we're fortunate in having such easy top
choices (IMO) for both works.
I don't always find that the case with standard-repertoire fare. Sometimes,
there is an embarrassment of riches (all ideal in their way), and sometimes
(Don Carlos or the Ring cycle, for example) the sheer complexity of the work
always prevents true satisfaction across the board.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
--
==============================================
The Collector's Guide to Opera Recordings and Videos
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/7023
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http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/7023/reading.htm
==============================================
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Thu, May 6, 1999 08:47 EDT
>Message-id: <7gs35d$p1g$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>
>
>
>Yes, the orchestra plays well,and Konya (also on the Cluytens) is great, but
>the great Gorr is shrill and desperate, Amara ill suited tonally to Elsa,
>Dooley fades at the top, and Hines is not in good voice. Calvin Marsh is OK
>as the Herald. Chacun a son gout, but this would seem a odd recommendation
>for a first LOHENGRIN.
>
>David Shengold
Plays well? The BSO gives a performance of incredible depth, warmth and
precision. This has been captured beautifully by the engineers.
-
LOHENGRIN is far from my favorite Wagner opera, but Leinsdorf and Konya have me
recognizing the beautiful piece of work this is.
Your critique of the other singers is on target. But never have I heard the
finale to Act II taken with such majesty and warmth.
-
I have, but no longer listen to, the Kempe and Von Karajan recordings. And I
once had a good (but cut) version by Wilhelm Schuechter debited only by Maud
Cunitz' substandard Elsa but credited by Schock's fine knight and other
excellent singers (Metternich, Klose and Frick among them).
-
Also I credit Leinsdorf with reinstating an addendum to "In fernam Land" that
is cut because Wagner (in a letter to Franz Lizst) stated that he thought it
should be omitted. Wagner was not on hand for the premiere (in Weimar). I
think the cut music should be heard, especially as sung by Konya.
-
The Solti is a good recording, but I do not think he gets as much out of the
VPO as Leinsdorf obtained from the BSO. Too bad that Leontyne Price was unable
to sing Elsa as was originally planned (Amara was substitued for her).
-
I suppose if I really liked LOHENGRIN per se I might offer a different
recommendation.
-
"The orchestra plays well"? That's like saying Astaire was a fair hoofer. It's
the truth, but not quite the whole truth.
-
All the best,
==G/P Dave
Matthew Good
"Lohegrin". James King is perhaps not the most exciting tenor, and this is a
shame because he does rather spoil things. However Gundula Janowitzs is a
gorgeous Elsa, and there is fine support from Karl Ridderbusch and Thomas
Stewart as the King and Telramund. And yes, I'm sorry Mr. Shengold, but
Gwyneth Jones's Ortrud is spell binding!
Matthew
Edward A. Cowan
> Is there a 'Lohengrin' that properly showcases Voelker?
Preiser 90043, three CDs, preserves a 1942 Berlin State Opera
performance, recorded live, cond. Artur Rother, with Franz Voelker as
Lohengrin, Maria Mueller as Elsa, Margarete Klose as Ortrud, Jaro
Prohaska as Telramund, and Ludwig Hofmann as King Henry. The sound is
good wartime monophonic. There is some fading, but this was obviously
taken down on *tape*. The traditional cut between the Grail Narrative
and the arrival of the swan is observed.
This cast is largely that of the famous 1936 Bayreuth production, on
which occasion extensive excerpts were recorded on extended-play 78s
(ca. 9 min. per side), one of which contained the uncut Grail Narrative.
(The one in the Preiser set is the shortened one.) To be sure, these
principals are six years older than they had been in 1936, sometimes
audibly so, and the chorus in 1942 is anemic sounding. But this is the
only known virtually complete _Lohengrin_ with Voelker, and for this I
am grateful.
--E.A.C.
dtritter
> In fact, I even bought the> Studer/Jerusalem/Abbado and returned it because I didn't like Studer's breathy,> unsupported singing and Jerusalem's monochromatic performance.
Sic 'im, Gaaaaaaaby!!! Kill! Don't let 'im get away with that one! He
must be one of those hypocritical Americans conspiring to get our girl.
Buy I have confidence in you. You'll get out the ole huntin' dawg an'
run 'im to ground. Sic, 'im, Gaaaaaaaaaby!!! Kill!
dft
GregF NC
>records. With this role sung on records by the likes of Terfel, Schmidt,
>Krause, and Trekel, it's hard for me to be grateful for DFD's bawling.
>
recorded
>Wagnerian efforts, although I prefer Heppner, Seiffert, Konya, and Jerusalem,
>not to mention Volker and Melchior. Unfortunately, Domingo is still pretty
>generic here, and most of his colleagues aren't even close to his standard
>(as I recall, the Ortrud and Telramund are only slightly less unfortunate
>than DFD's Herald).
You certainly can be a tough critic. I listened to most of the stereo
Lohengrin's before buying the Solti. (At that time, the Barenboim, which I
haven't heard, was not available yet.) In fact, I even bought the
Studer/Jerusalem/Abbado and returned it because I didn't like Studer's breathy,
unsupported singing and Jerusalem's monochromatic performance.
While it's true that there may be better singers in each of the parts, they are
not all available in one good modern recording. The Solti has the best all
around cast in my opinion, especially if one doesn't agree with your
perspective on F-D.
I have the Grummer/Thomas on LP by the way, but wanted a newer recording as
well.
The Solti in
Greg F(in North Carolina)
pin...@my-dejanews.com
gre...@aol.com (GregF NC) wrote:
> In fact, I even bought the Studer/Jerusalem/Abbado and returned it
> because I didn't like Studer's breathy, unsupported singing and
> Jerusalem's monochromatic performance.
Heresy!
Gabriel Bocanegra )-:
Etwas33
durn good.
HenryFogel
>From: etw...@aol.com (Etwas33)
>Date: 5/D/YYYY 8:52 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <19990507215213...@ng-cj1.aol.com>
>
>No one has mentioned Corelli's Canio yet, on the EMI Pagliacci....It's purdy
>durn good.
>
>
I've missed some of this thread, but I'll certainly second that nomination.
The EMI is very well conducted (Lovro von Matacic) as well -- and strongly
cast. Corelli is at his best, and to me this has always been the most
recommendable recording of Pagliacci -- certainly among the modern sets.
Henry Fogel
Robin Goh
chucter( maybe I mispell) with Rudolf Shock and Margaret Klose as Ortrud and
someone called Maud Something-or-other. I believe it's deleted from the EMI
References label.
Adrian Tudor
recording and Di Stefano's are good.
MD
Monaco, Tucci and MacNeil. The men especially are magnificent.
Edward A. Cowan
> Does anyone have an opinion about a 1950s Lohengrin conducted by
> chucter( maybe I mispell) with Rudolf Shock and Margaret Klose as Ortrud and
> someone called Maud Something-or-other. I believe it's deleted from the EMI
> References label.
The soprano was Maud Cunitz, who sang in German opera houses, though she
was, I believe, born in Britain. Her Elsa is only so-so, but the rest of
the cast is splendid, as is Schuechter's conducting. Alas, the recording
observes the Act 3 cut between the Grail Narrative and the arrival of
the swan. The pacing of the opera is very fine, rather like that by
conductor von Matacic in the 1959 Bayreuth performance (Konya, Gruemmer,
Gorr, Blanc, Crass).
If you should be primarily interested in Klose as Ortrud, consider the
1942 Berlin State Opera performance on Preiser. Despite the aged sound
(from tape, however), the performance is splendid and catches Klose in
first-rate form. Klose also sang in a third recording, the first studio
recording known to me, that appeared on Urania LP's back in the early
1950s. That one you can forget, despite the presence of Rudolf Kempe as
conductor.
--E.A.C.