neil sedaka and other bad opera singers
Chris Connelly
I'm compiling as many "bad" opera recordings as I can find. Not just the
Flora Foster Jenkins and Michael Bolton stuff, but parodies like Irving
Berlin's Lucia Sextette and "Yes We Have No Bananas" travesties, the swing
re-do of the Rigoletto quartette from the Judy Garland film "Everybody
Sing!", etc.
Specifically, I'm looking for an English version of "Nessun Dorma" Neil
Sedaka was singing about five years ago - something along the likes of "If
We Could Turn Back the Hands of Time" - so he could be with his dead father,
whom he misses.
Anyone know what album(s) may include this gem? Can anyone suggest any
other fodder for this collection?
My thanks in advance!
Christina West
message
news:9bk4rp$m99$1...@sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com...
> Specifically, I'm looking for an English version of
> "Nessun Dorma" Neil Sedaka was singing about five years
> ago - something along the likes of "If We Could Turn Back
> the Hands of Time" - so he could be with his dead father,
> whom he misses.
AFAIK, 'If I could turn back the hands of time' has nothing in common with
'Nessun dorma' - perhaps the title of the track is merely something similar
to this?
However, re 'Nessun dorma', Aretha Franklin sang it at the opening of
something-or-other a year or so ago - I saw it on a video a friend had
taped. I believe she was standing in for someone who was indisposed -
possibly Pavarotti? If you can get hold of this, it's certainly worth addng
to your collection of operatic oddities. It's certainly extremely odd.
Great artist that Ms. Franklin is, although it's in a sense *awful*, it's
awful in a sort of fascinating way.
Mr. Sedaka is also, IMO, not to be sneezed at in his field. Although what
an operatic assumption on his part would sound like, I can't really imagine.
Christina
xi...@ukgateway.net
Matthew B. Tepper
<3addacab$0$15026$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com>:
>
>However, re 'Nessun dorma', Aretha Franklin sang it at the opening of
>something-or-other a year or so ago - I saw it on a video a friend had
>taped. I believe she was standing in for someone who was indisposed -
>possibly Pavarotti? If you can get hold of this, it's certainly worth
>addng to your collection of operatic oddities. It's certainly extremely
>odd. Great artist that Ms. Franklin is, although it's in a sense
>*awful*, it's awful in a sort of fascinating way.
Ms. Franklin filled in for Luciano Pavarotti, who had supposedly become
indisposed at the last minute, for the Grammy Awards telecast a couple of
years ago. What did not become generally known until later was that Ms.
Franklin had sung "Nessun dorma" earlier in the week for some press club
luncheon. Thus the televised performance was most likely a put-up job,
done so that Ms. Franklin could play at being an "opera singer." For her,
I have no more R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
My suspicion is that this was an attempt to test the waters, based on the
successes (financial, not artistic) that another pop singer, Andrea
Bocelli, had shown by applying his tiny voice and circumscribed art to
famous, out-of-copyright arias.
The following year, the Grammy Awards telecast featured an actual classical
music performer, Joshua Bell -- but he wound up playing some country music
instead. Thus when it was announced this year (only very shortly before
the date of the telecast) that an actual classical music performer (Marc-
André Hamelin), I secretly wondered whether he would be allowed on only if
he accompanied his wife Jody Applebaum in some cabaret song. But miracle
of miracles, he actually played one of the Godowsky Studies on the Chopin
Etudes, for which he had been nominated. It was a sure bet he wasn't going
to play the Busoni Piano Concerto, for which he got his other nomination.
He lost in both categories to Sony "Classical" artists.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Hoof-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Fabutab
"Chris Connelly" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote:
>
> Specifically, I'm looking for an English version of "Nessun Dorma" Neil
> Sedaka was singing about five years ago - something along the likes of
> "If
> We Could Turn Back the Hands of Time" - so he could be with his dead
> father,
> whom he misses.
Ya know, I actually saw this on television. I forgot what the occation
was - maybe New Years Day celebrations, or something like that. Anyway,
I couldn't believe what I was seeing (hearing); and in all these years
since then, I have mostly succeeded in repressing the nightmare. Thanks
for bringing this horror back to the surface.
-Kevbo (Who will soon be seeking therapy)
Chris Connelly
"Fabutab" <kev...@home.com> wrote in message
news:kevbo59-5A0998.11091818042001@news...
I had the second half of the performance on video - but accidentally erased
it. I'd love to track down a complete copy - at least on audio.
It was on Regis & Kathie Lee during the fall(?) of 1995.
Bernard Gould
excruciating, couldn't listen to anything else
no doubt she's trashed a few more
Bernard
Chris Connelly <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:9bk4rp$m99$1...@sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com...
Matthew B. Tepper
of horror that I was actually sightseeing in Cardiff only a few days after
Charlotte Church was conceived! Oh, to have had a few RU-486 tablets!
ARodolfo
'nessun dorma', she recently attempted it on the VH1 'divas' show in her honor.
It was awful and I hope she realizes this instead of continuing with her future
recording project of 'arias'. I'm not sure what language she was attempting but
it wasn't italian. I'm still curious why she decided to leave out the
'vinceros' on this show. She had mutilated at least 90% of the melody by her
own weak improvisatory nonsense. Surely she could have come up with something
for the climatic phrase of the tune. All I saw was a brief look of terror. She
knew deep within her that she didn't have the chops for the music and there was
no way to bs her way out of it. I guess she leaves the bs to her 'public'.
It wouldn't surprise me if this show is released for the public to own and
cherish. There may even be cllips available on the internet.
Unfortunately, Aretha Franklin is so bad and out of her element with her
'opera' and 'jazz' tunes on this show that it's not funny, imo. She may very
well have been the queen of soul at one time in her life. She's not now.
I'll take Bocelli and Church over hearing Aretha Franklin sing "opera" anyday..
I shudder thinking what sedaka would sound like. He's awful enough in his own
stuff. LOL
jjman
It's on a cd titled Neil Sedaka, Tales Of Love, on the Artful label
and was released in 1998 so it should be easy to find.
Best Wishes
John
james jorden
> She had mutilated at least 90% of the melody by her
>own weak improvisatory nonsense.
"Mutilating the melody with weak improvisatory nonsense" is the essence of
gospel, blues, soul and jazz singing. Ms. Franklin sang "Nessun dorma" in
the same style with which she would approach any other number -- her *own*
style, in other words.
I think some of what she does with "Nessun dorma" is funny, but some of it
is beautiful and exciting on its own terms. Ms. Franklin is an imaginative
and strongly individual musician with a magnificent voice. I particularly
like the extra high melismas she improvised over the coda of the aria on the
Grammy Awards performance when she jumped in for Pavarotti. I have not seen
the VH-1 version, but if the ending fell flat, well, that is a risk that you
take when you televise a live performance. Even the greatest artists have
off nights and off moments; Pavarotti himself would surely be the first to
tell you that.
Did you know that Ms. Franklin is not an opera singer and does not *claim*
to be an opera singer? She sings "Nessun dorma" because she thinks it is a
beautiful song and because of her admiration for Luciano Pavarotti as an
artist and a humanitarian.
But you know all that already, surely, since your telepathic powers are so
superbly developed. "She knew deep within her that she didn't have the
chops for the music and there was no way to bs her way out of it." Bravo.
And now would you care to tell me what number I am thinking of?
jj
Mark D. Lew
<jjo...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> "Mutilating the melody with weak improvisatory nonsense" is the essence of
> gospel, blues, soul and jazz singing. Ms. Franklin sang "Nessun dorma" in
> the same style with which she would approach any other number -- her *own*
> style, in other words.
Improbable as it seems, a lot of the pop singers who seem to be completely
incapable of singing (and I mean singers who demonstrate far less voice
that Ms Franklin does) really do have a voice. They simply choose not to
use it in any way that we would recognize as singing.
The other day I saw part of an MTV special on Cristina Aguilera. What
caught my attention was when they showed her doing vocal warm-ups. To my
surprise, her warm-ups sounded pretty much the same as what I hear from the
sort of singers that I know. Just as surprising was that she seemed to have
a very nice voice. Not operatic, but certainly well-produced and supported.
They had mentioned that she was recording a Christmas album, so I was
curious to hear how she would sing. It sounded like she's had classical
training, and I could easily have imagined her going out to sing some nice
unamplified lieder.
But when they showed her in the studio, sure enough she sang "Silent Night"
in that low, breathy, unconnected style, in which no note can be help for
more than half a beat without some sort of ornamentation. I find this sound
very unsatisfying, but obviously it must be well-loved by someone, since
it's the main choice of so many pop singers. Presumably the producers of
the Christmas album believe there is a demand for Christmas songs "sung"
like this.
In retrospect, what is most curious is that Miss Aguilera felt the need to
warm up at all. I would have thought that singing of this sort wouldn't
require any warm-up, or if it did it wouldn't be the same sort of warm-up
needed for classical singing. Yet Miss Aguilera said that follows her
warm-up regimen religiously. Evidently it's of some use to her, even in the
style of singing that she does.
mdl
ARodolfo
>"Mutilating the melody with weak improvisatory nonsense" is the essence of
>gospel, blues, soul and jazz singing.
Nope. Sorry, JJ. You're wrong. <gasp>
Mutilation of any melodic line whether it's improvised or not is one of the
worst things a professional singer can do.
. I have nothing against anyone singing the music they want to sing in their
own unique way. However, some things should not be for public consumption
though and passed off as 'opera', 'jazz', 'bluegrass' or whatever --- when it's
not.
If she had the 5 octave range that was mentioned before she did her awful
version of 'nessun dorma' maybe she would have been able to pull off the tune.
She didn't that evening.
If she had known what was going on harmonically with either the blues with the
jazz group or 'nessun dorma', maybe she would have been able to turn a phrase
in her on unique style. IMO, she's lacking the fundamentals.
The blues that evening was harmonically and melodically bebop oriented....and
while she may be able to sing other forms of the blues, her scatting with
Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Roy Haynes in the rhythm section was weak, imo .
Hearing her with that group was the only reason I tuned into the the show. I
was disappointed with that segment but angered when she attempted 'nessun
dorma'. To me, it was nothing but a case of 'look what I can do. love me more,
more, more.'
Aretha Franklin, regardless of all her past accomplishments - of which there
are far more than you or I will ever hope to attain in all likelihood, should
at least study the basics of jazz and learn the climatic phrases of the tunes
she chooses to sing that are outside of her chosen field...imo.
She brought in other guest artists. She could have, probably should have (imo),
done the same with her 'jazz' and 'opera' segments.
>But you know all that already, surely, since your telepathic powers are so
>superbly developed. "She knew deep within her that she didn't have the
>chops for the music and there was no way to bs her way out of it." Bravo.
>And now would you care to tell me what number I am thinking of?
Uh, JJ, you said that you didn't see the vh1 show. Until you do, you have no
idea the look that was on her face as she knew she had blown what could have
been the climatic moment of the evening for her audience. She didn't even
attempt to sing a phrase. She just let it go by without a sound as the cameras
zoomed in on her. I felt a moment of pity. But it quickly passed.
Would you care to guess the number of fingers I'm waving at you? <w>
arod
btw...and I sincerely mean this... Best Wishes on your upcoming "Lucia". I hope
everything goes well and that the evening is a rewarding one for you and your
crew.
Matthew B. Tepper
<markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>:
>
>In retrospect, what is most curious is that Miss Aguilera felt the need
>to warm up at all. I would have thought that singing of this sort
>wouldn't require any warm-up, or if it did it wouldn't be the same sort
>of warm-up needed for classical singing. Yet Miss Aguilera said that
>follows her warm-up regimen religiously. Evidently it's of some use to
>her, even in the style of singing that she does.
My 83-year-old dad exercises every day, but I know and he knows that he's
not going to be running any marathons.
Kimberley
either the American Music Awards or the Grammy Awards...don't remember
which, but OHMIGOD it was AWFUL.
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:l_iD6.1464$OL3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Mitchell Kaufman
> >
> >"Mutilating the melody with weak improvisatory nonsense" is the essence of
> >gospel, blues, soul and jazz singing.
>
> Nope. Sorry, JJ. You're wrong. <gasp>
>
>
> Mutilation of any melodic line whether it's improvised or not is one of the
> worst things a professional singer can do.
[snip]
Praiseworthy as Aretha Franklin's *intentions* may have been re: Nessun
Dorma, the results were ridiculous. I have nothing against the *concept*
of singers "crossing over," but this was approximately as dreadful as
Pavarotti singing "New York, New York" (which, in his live performance
with Liza Minnelli, has to be heard to be believed).
On the issue of "improvisatory nonsense," Billie Holiday was perhaps the
most notable example of a singer who literally recomposed the melody
(partly as a result of her technical limitations, but applied to
unfailingly artistic ends). OTOH, Billie Holiday never attempted "Mi
chiamano Mimi," because she had solid artistic instincts, and knew how
to choose the right material (and unlike Ella Fitzgerald, she never sang
"My Wubba Dolly" either, which just goes to show that even great jazz
performers can make mistakes).
We opera fans struggle with a delicate balance: on the one hand, looking
down our noses at "serious" efforts by "popular" singers, and on the
other, excusing bad artistic decisions by those singers because their
approach is so improvisatory as to be beyond criticism.
The key question we need to ask when evaluating these kinds of
performances is: is artistic justice being done to the material? When
Billie Holiday sang "I Loves You Porgy," it was great because she
brought unique insights into the music *as Billie Holiday*, not because
she was trying to be Leontyne Price.
"Horses for courses," I believe the British say.
MK
james jorden
> However, some things should not be for public consumption
>though and passed off as 'opera', 'jazz', 'bluegrass' or whatever --- when
it's
>not.
I like your use of weak passive voice ("should not be...passed off"), which
so cleverly tries to makes us believe that someone else besides yourself is
dictating the terms of "public consumption." Since when were you appointed
aesthetic censor for the world?
Did Ms. Franklin call this performance "opera?" Do you honestly think anyone
watching this program said to himself, "At last I have heard an opera
tonight?" Isn't it obvious that in this context "opera" means "music from
an opera?" (This is an entirely different case from, say, Charlotte Church,
with surely the approval of her management, being called a "15 year old
opera singer." Ms. Franklin does not call herself any kind of opera singer,
rather a soul singer who sings one "opera" piece.
>If she had the 5 octave range that was mentioned
Hyperbole, surely unheard-of in show business before this time. Did she
write her own introduction?
>maybe she would have been able to pull off the tune.
>She didn't that evening.
Essentially, then, you are saying that one one occasion she tried and she
failed. Am I to understand, then, that performers, before they are cleared
for your standards of "public consumption," should be required (by law,
perhaps?) to prove that their artistic efforts will be successful, not to
mention in compliance with your own strict definitions of musical genre?
>If she had known what was going on harmonically with either the blues with
the
>jazz group or 'nessun dorma', maybe she would have been able to turn a
phrase
>in her on unique style. IMO, she's lacking the fundamentals.
Ah, finally "IMO," after all that mind-reading.
>I
>was disappointed with that segment but angered when she attempted 'nessun
>dorma'. To me, it was nothing but a case of 'look what I can do. love me
more,
>more, more.'
To me, this is a case of projection on your part: you are disappointed, and
it's Aretha's fault for deliberately making you unhappy. Look, Aretha blew
it. She wasn't perfect. Get over it. She's human, and it happens. I
happen to know she is *not* incapable of singing "Nessun dorma" excitingly
and stylishly, because I have heard her do so live on the Grammy awards and
on a live recording in "her" key. Surely her intention was to sing it well,
and I think she must still have the equipment to do so; I can't imagine her
attempting the piece in rehearsal and then going forward with it if it
wasn't working at that time. (A little mind-reading on my part, now.) But to
you anything less than your standard of quality reads as the performer's
intentional mockery of you personally, and that's just, for lack of a better
word, queeny.
>Uh, JJ, you said that you didn't see the vh1 show. Until you do, you have
no
>idea the look that was on her face as she knew she had blown what could
have
>been the climatic moment of the evening for her audience. She didn't even
>attempt to sing a phrase. She just let it go by without a sound as the
cameras
>zoomed in on her. I felt a moment of pity. But it quickly passed.
Yes, moralistic high dudgeon has a way of banishing any sort of empathy for
other human beings.
>btw...and I sincerely mean this... Best Wishes on your upcoming "Lucia". I
hope
>everything goes well and that the evening is a rewarding one for you and
your
>crew.
I thank you for your wishes, but I can't help feeling that you will take any
failure on our part as a deliberate slight, and start accusing us of a case
of "love me more, more more."
jj
james jorden
>Praiseworthy as Aretha Franklin's *intentions* may have been re: Nessun
>Dorma, the results were ridiculous.
Notice, not "I found the results ridiculous," but "the results were
ridiculous," a value judgement existing in a vacuum.
>OTOH, Billie Holiday never attempted "Mi
>chiamano Mimi," because she had solid artistic instincts, and knew how
>to choose the right material
Or maybe because she never heard the piece.
>The key question we need to ask when evaluating these kinds of
>performances is: is artistic justice being done to the material?
The key question here is to define "artistic justice," and not just to use
such high-sounding phrases as a club to whack artists whose efforts are not
to our own personal tastes.
jj
Chris Connelly
"jjman" <jj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3ade1232...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
ARodolfo
>Did Ms. Franklin call this performance "opera?" Do you honestly think anyone
>watching this program said to himself, "At last I have heard an opera
>tonight?" Isn't it obvious that in this context "opera" means "music from
>an opera?"
I'm not sure whether anyone thought they heard an entire opera or not. However,
a check of the VH1 message boards reveals that some people do think AF can sing
'opera'. And I'm well aware of the difference between an excerpt and a complete
show.
Me: >>If she had the 5 octave range that was mentioned
>
JJ: >Hyperbole, surely unheard-of in show business before this time. Did she
>write her own introduction?
I have no idea....Did she have artistic control over what was being used as
introductions? Yes.
JJ:> Am I to understand, then, that performers, before they are cleared
>for your standards of "public consumption," should be required (by law,
>perhaps?) to prove that their artistic efforts will be successful, not to
>mention in compliance with your own strict definitions of musical genre?
No. And who's doing the 'mind-reading' now? Do you know my 'own strict
definitions of musical genre'? If so, I'd be interested in knowing them since
I've been accused of being too open-minded with cross-over attempts in the
past.
JJ:> I happen to know she is *not* incapable of singing "Nessun dorma"
excitingly
>and stylishly, because I have heard her do so live on the Grammy awards and
>on a live recording in "her" key.
Uh...what drugs were you on during the Grammys?
Surely her intention was to sing it well,
>and I think she must still have the equipment to do so; I can't imagine her
>attempting the piece in rehearsal and then going forward with it if it
>wasn't working at that time.
I'm sure that was her intention. Maybe she had the right 'key' in rehearsal but
in performance it was wrong for her. Then again, with a 5 octave range a little
thing like tessitura for a couple minutes shouldn't have bothered her. :-p
>....to
>you anything less than your standard of quality reads as the performer's
>intentional mockery of you personally, and that's just, for lack of a better
>word, queeny.
>
<sigh> name-calling? That's the best that you can do? Her performances of
'nessun dorma' thus far have been a mockery of the music, imo.
>I thank you for your wishes, but I can't help feeling that you will take any
>failure on our part as a deliberate slight, and start accusing us of a case
>of "love me more, more more."
>
You're wrong. I'll give you your props for having done this 'Lucia" whether
it's a success or not. Such performances help keep the genre alive. It's
time-consuming and a lot of hard work ---not to mention the bs that everyone
involved has to go through to get to the evening of the performance. I wish you
and your crew all the success that such an endeavor deserves.
ARodolfo
>The key question we need to ask when evaluating these kinds of
>performances is: is artistic justice being done to the material?
Well said. And the example of Billie Holiday was right on the mark, imo.
Be warned. JJ may ask you to define 'artistic justice'.
james jorden
>Uh...what drugs were you on during the Grammys?
Hey, that's catchy. Totally original kind of comeback on Usenet. Mind if I
borrow it to alternate with "Take your meds" and "I know you are, but what
am I?"
I LIKED what Aretha did with "Nessun dorma" at the Grammys. She sang
lovingly and bravely, and especially the finish (after the last "Vincero")
was one of the most exciting live musical moments I have ever heard:
spontaneous and electric. The piece is all about that "vincero," triumph
against all odds, and that's exactly what Aretha enacted: she took on what
seemed an insurmountable challenge, and she won, in spades.
In my experience, people who prate about "standards" are just bitching
because they want things to go their own little way, and the world doesn't
bother to listen to them.
jj
james jorden
> a mockery of the music, imo.
Music isn't a person; it doesn't have feelings. "Mockery" is cruelty to
someone or something that can feel.
Painting a moustache on a reproduction of the Mona Lisa does not "mock" the
painting; at worst it mocks people who have certain attitudes and feelings
toward that painting and to art in general. So what you are saying here is
essentially that Aretha's performance mocked *you* and your attitudes, not
the music. Hey, don't take it personally. She doesn't even know you.
jj
james jorden
>Be warned. JJ may ask you to define 'artistic justice'.
Already have. If you are willing to accept the idea that "Nessun dorma" is a
pop song, then I say that (in the performance I know) Aretha does artistic
justice to the piece. If you insist that "Nessun dorma" is a serious
dramatic scene in music (i.e. an aria) then you have to say that Luciano
Pavarotti has not done "artistic justice" to the piece anytime in the past
20 years.
jj
ARodolfo
>lovingly and bravely, and especially the finish (after the last "Vincero")
>was one of the most exciting live musical moments I have ever heard:
>spontaneous and electric. The piece is all about that "vincero," triumph
>against all odds, and that's exactly what Aretha enacted: she took on what
>seemed an insurmountable challenge, and she won, in spades.
>
>In my experience, people who prate about "standards" are just bitching
>because they want things to go their own little way, and the world doesn't
>bother to listen to them.
>
>jj
JJ,
To each their own. You liked what I didn't. I'm sure we have plenty things in
common that we both like. AF performances of 'nessun dorma' isn't one of them.
You have your opinions and I have mine.
My 'bitching' and 'prating' (sp?) is not about wanting things to go as I want
them. I've been around long enough to know better. I also realize that not
everyone may agree with my opinions. That's fine by me.
And guess what? I've even been known to change my mind about things. But when
something is being performed just for the sake of 'ego' and is being passed off
as something it's not, I have a right to disagree and state my opinions.
The original poster of this thread was looking for party material and AF
singing 'nessun dorma' on the Grammys and the VH1 "Divas" qualifies, imo.
Unfortunately, I still have trouble finding the humour in such a debacle of
nonsense (imo) at this time.
arod
ARodolfo
>Music isn't a person; it doesn't have feelings. "Mockery" is cruelty to
>someone or something that can feel.
Webster's defines mockery as follows:
1. insulting or contemptuous action or speech : DERISION
2. a subject of laughter, derision, or sport
3 a : a counterfeit appearance : IMITATION
b: an insincere, contemptible, or impertinent imitation <makes a " of
justice>
4: something ridiculously or impudently unsuitable
imo, Aretha Franklin singing 'nessun dorma' on her vh1 show and the grammys
was a mockery of music.
arod
ARodolfo
>If you are willing to accept the idea that "Nessun dorma" is a
>pop song, then I say that (in the performance I know) Aretha does artistic
>justice to the piece.
I can easily accept the fact the 'nessun dorma' is a popular tune. I say she
does artistic injustice to piece, especially on the VH1 "Divas" performance.
>If you insist that "Nessun dorma" is a serious
>dramatic scene in music (i.e. an aria) then you have to say that Luciano
>Pavarotti has not done "artistic justice" to the piece anytime in the past
>20 years.
>
I insist no such thing. But I'll wager that Pav's performances of this tune
move me more that AF's. And I think Puccini would feel the same way. :-p
arod
james jorden
>imo, Aretha Franklin singing 'nessun dorma' on her vh1 show and the grammys
>was a mockery of music.
Projecting again. Do you really think Aretha was intentionally "making
sport" of this aria? Do you really believe her attitude was "insincere,
contemptible, or impertinent?"
All the "imo's" in the world don't change the fact that you are reading
motivations into her that you have no way of knowing.
jj
james jorden
>I insist no such thing. But I'll wager that Pav's performances of this tune
>move me more that AF's. And I think Puccini would feel the same way. :-p
I applaud the development of your talent: now you can read the minds of the
dead as well as the living.
Your fallacy here is that you are Aretha's audience. It's pretty obvious
you're not. So why do you continue to behave as if she was singing this
piece just for you and intentionally did it badly just to spite you?
jj
Ancona21
seemed an insurmountable challenge, and she won, in spades. >>
You may wish to rephrase that.
Ancona
james jorden
>You may wish to rephrase that.
Why? Might my metaphor offend any contract bridge players who happened upon
it?
jj
Ancona21
it?
jj >>
Point taken. I bid one no-trump. What's your strongest suit?
Ancona The Conventional
ARodolfo
;> Do you really believe her (Aretha Franklin) attitude was "insincere,
>contemptible, or impertinent?"
Yes. If she were sincere she would have hired a coach to help her with horrible
Italian. If she were sincere she would have spent a little more time getting
the tune in her voice. She's been in the business long enough to know when
something's right for her and when it's not vocally.
For some reason, she decided to 'wing it' on the VH1 show. It certainly came
across that way to this musician. And JJ, I saw both the Grammys and the VH1.
One would think she would have cared enough about her audience and the music
to at least clean up the Italian and have an idea of what she could do with the
tune, whether she improvised on the melody or not.
Perhaps she's been believing all her hype. .
Matthew B. Tepper
<TWsD6.866$ul1.5...@news.uswest.net>:
>I've got another one for you guys...Michael Bolton singing Nessun Dorma
>on either the American Music Awards or the Grammy Awards...don't
>remember which, but OHMIGOD it was AWFUL.
Phonies, frauds, bounders, poseurs, and carpetbaggers, so are they all!
The fawning, pliable, possibly buyable press calls it "popera," which seems
to legitimize it. I call it mockera!
ARodolfo
>you're not. So why do you continue to behave as if she was singing this
>piece just for you and intentionally did it badly just to spite you?
>
>
Uh...JJ, she not only sang that piece for me but millions of other people were
her audience that evening...except for you. And yet you're commenting on
something you haven't seen or heard.
I'm well aware of the music of Aretha Franklin. I've made decent money playing
music associated with her and had fun with it in rehearsal and on the gigs. I
respect what she's done in the past musically and put in the time to do my best
with those tunes. If only she had done the same for Puccini.
JJ, this argument is getting boring. Watch the VH1 show and then comment. As it
is now, you're arguing just for the sake of arguing and we both have better
things to do with our time.
arod
"never argue with idiots....they bring you down to their level and beat you
with experience"
Mark D. Lew
(ARodolfo) wrote:
[answering James Jorden]
> >....to
> >you anything less than your standard of quality reads as the performer's
> >intentional mockery of you personally, and that's just, for lack of a better
> >word, queeny.
> <sigh> name-calling? That's the best that you can do? Her performances of
> 'nessun dorma' thus far have been a mockery of the music, imo.
For what it's worth, I don't read "queeny" as "name-calling". One may or
may not agree with Mr Jorden's characterization, but it is a descriptive
term, not simply an epithet, and I can think of no other word that better
captures exactly what Mr Jordan was trying to say.
I'm pointing this out only because I suspect that a lot of readers probably
don't live in a subculture where the term has any meaning beyond a generic
insult.
mdl
ARodolfo
I've ever been described as 'queeny' though. That's pretty funny. It's wrong
but funny. Maybe I should get a Callas tattoo as well. hehehe
Skip
Liza, or Judy......... :))
"ARodolfo" <arod...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010420011447...@ng-mq1.aol.com...
ARodolfo
>If the Callas Tatoo doesn't work, the old reliable ones will work, Barbra,
>Liza, or Judy......... :))
now now. LOL
Skip
TColl65159
of the Tannhauser prelude. Great artist that she was its really not as awful as
that might imply!
Then of course Della Reese did a whole album of pop songs to classical tunes.
trev(UK)
Skip
"TColl65159" <tcoll...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Chris Connelly
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Hank Conner
Elmer Fudd