Top Ten Opera Singers of the '90's
Candide
Candide
"The truth is rarely pure and never simple"
Oscar Wilde
(December 20, 1999 4:18 p.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com) - Here are the
top 10 opera singers of the 1990s, as selected by the opera writers of The
Associated Press:
Cecilia Bartoli - The Italian soprano whose clear, pure voice can fill an
opera house when she sings Mozart and Rossini. She delights audiences with
her sound and comic sense and has become the most famous mezzo of her day.
Placido Domingo - The dramatic Spanish tenor and the reigning Otello, who
also sings 114 other roles. He has a burnished sound, soaring lyricism and
insight into character, undiminished at age 58.
Jane Eaglen - The English soprano owns the amplitude of sound to do justice
to Wagner's most dramatic heroines, singing them with both thrilling power
and delicacy.
Renee Fleming - The American soprano has a creamy, full voice, producing
floods of beautiful vocal luxury.
Denyce Graves - The American mezzo, who specializes in Carmen and Delilah,
can make her voice rich, velvety, smoky, sultry, intimate, sexy.
Ben Heppner - The Canadian heldentenor has a heroic voice with purity and
sweetness, which keeps gaining in size and flexibility; a voice for which
Wagner lovers have been waiting for decades.
Luciano Pavarotti - The Italian tenor, who turned 64 in 1999, lost some
power and shortened his range during the decade but his distinctive vocal
color and beauty survived. He remained the best of the tenors in his
repertoire.
Bryn Terfel - The Welsh baritone with the rare booming, blooming voice has
amazing accuracy with Rossinian ornamentation and, on stage, his deportment
is as easily confident as his singing.
Samuel Ramey - The American bass, who never heard an opera before he sang in
one, has a rich, commanding voice, a lithe, athletic figure and he knows how
to act and command a stage.
Deborah Voigt - The American, whose soft-grained soprano shows startling
power and freedom, is a rising star in German repertory who also is gaining
renown as a major Verdi soprano.
--
Domingo4me
>
Hi Candide,
Well, I like them all. :) I would probably only disagree slightly with some
of the descriptions, including Domingo being undiminished at age 58. He's
still great overall IMO, the middle voice certainly still is wonderful, but
"undiminished" is a bit of an overstatement ... can't wait for the furor on
that one. :)
Thought maybe Alagna or wife would have been in there. Otherwise no
surprises really. :)
Marcia
Mike Richter
stretches credulity in many ways. Bartoli is a soprano, Domingo is a
dramatic tenor - and the 1990s begin and end in 1999. (While about half
the singers selected were well known in 1990, the rest were hardly
considered great at that time, while artists such as Marilyn Horne
certainly were.)
If I were a cynic, I would regard the list as a condemnation of "the
opera writers of The Associated Press." Note: My list would differ if I
made one, but why bother?
Mike
Candide wrote:
>
> Reposted from The Nando Times,talk amongst yourselves.
>
--
mric...@cpl.net
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Stregata
>made one, but why bother?
>
>Mike
Please Mike, let us have your list. It would be a list full of operatic
knowledge.
Stregata
Marty Robinson
Marty Robinson
Mike Richter wrote:
> Even if one believes that such a listing is meaningful, that one
> stretches credulity in many ways. Bartoli is a soprano, Domingo is a
> dramatic tenor - and the 1990s begin and end in 1999. (While about half
> the singers selected were well known in 1990, the rest were hardly
> considered great at that time, while artists such as Marilyn Horne
> certainly were.)
>
> If I were a cynic, I would regard the list as a condemnation of "the
> opera writers of The Associated Press." Note: My list would differ if I
> made one, but why bother?
>
> Mike
>
Mike Richter
To me, no such listing makes sense. I would be hard pressed to list only
ten top singers of Rossini in 1999 - and would find it harder to list
ten capable singers of Verdi. Few on either list would be considered for
a major role of Lully or Monteverdi and probably none for Henze or
Adams.
On top of that, take any of those lists from 1999 and compare it with
the equivalent from 1990. You'll find little overlap.
Mike
Marty Robinson
I agree with your essential point that *best* lists are an exercise in futility and
that their ubiquity has become tedious. But they can be fun, and they seem to me to
fulfill a human desire to rank things. Much of what transpires on RMO, including your
learned contributions, is a discussion of rankings.
Placing "sopranos" and "dramatic tenors" under the same umbrella is the ranking
desire taken a step further. If you were to ask RMO posters to name the greatest
singer of the century, I'd wager Caruso would win (He'd get my vote) but second place
might go to another voice category.
Michael Jordan would win "greatest shooting guard" of all time hands down, but who's
satisfied with that? Is he the greatest basketball player? Arguments abound. Is he
the greatest athlete of the century? Even more contention. But there he is, along
with Jim Thorpe, Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth and Babe Didricksen. An impossible choice?
Apples and oranges? Sopranos and tenors? Sure. But it's fun.
Regards,
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Thu, 23 December 1999 01:32 PM EST
>Message-id: <38626AD6...@home.com>
Dear Mr. Robinson,
To refer to His Airness as merely "'greatest shooting guard' of all time hands
down" actually belittles his greatness.
#23 was a fabulous defensive player and a great playmaker. He *made* Scottie
Pippen into a superstar.
Without #23, the Bulls were (and are) losers. The Lakers would have won
without Jerry West; the Celtics were winners without Bob Cousy.
Now, another great -- a winner who made his teammates into winners was
Brooklyn's great #42 and your very namesake. He was the greatest baserunner I
ever saw although he never stole 40 bases in a season. He was the cleanup
hitter on a team that boasted the likes of Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Furillo,
Pafko.
Now, if it comes to disposition and demeanor, the Numero Uno in my book is Mr.
Cub, #14.
Happy Holidays to you and your family (which I hope includes the dedicatee of a
notable ballad by Simon & Garfunkel),
==G/P Dave
Paul Lewis
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> Dear Mr. Robinson,
>
> To refer to His Airness as merely "'greatest shooting guard' of all time hands
> down" actually belittles his greatness.
And belittles even more the greatness of Oscar Robinson, who was simply
the greatest.
> #23 was a fabulous defensive player and a great playmaker. He *made* Scottie
> Pippen into a superstar.
How many championships did Jordon win without Pippen?
000000000000000000.0000000000000
>
> Without #23, the Bulls were (and are) losers.
Without Pippen, Jordon is a loser. See above.
Sorry for all this off-topic discussion. It must be something to do
with the Holidays.
dtritter
when elevating one to the pantheon, one might at least spell his name
correctly. hell's bells, man, i can even spell cheryl studer!
dft
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Capa081348
>Subject: Re: Top Ten Opera Singers of the '90's
>From: grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE)
>Date: Thu, 23 December 1999 02:41 PM EST
>Message-id: <19991223144154...@ng-ck1.aol.com>
>
>Happy Holidays to you and your family (which I hope includes the dedicatee of
a
notable ballad by Simon & Garfunkel),
>
>==G/P Dave
------------
Well I'm all for wishing Martin Robinson Happy Holidays, too, Dave, but why do
you want to invoke "Cecilia"? She's breaking his heart and spoiling his
confidence now!
God Bless You, please, anyway!
Pat Finley
Or che mi conoscete
parlate voi. Deh parlate.
Chi siete? Vi piaccia dir?
Marty Robinson
Finley, Andy and all the other cognoscenti in RMO.
Dave, I stand second to no one in my admiration of Michael Jordan, but the folks
who argue Wilt's case also have a point. No argument about Banks, even from this
lifelong Sox fan.
And, yes, when The Graduate was released, my wife, who then had black hair and
bore a slight resemblance to Anne Bancroft, did inspire a few comments when she
signed her checks at the supermarket.
Marty
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> >Subject: Re: Top Ten Opera Singers of the '90's
> >From: grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE)
> >Date: Thu, 23 December 1999 02:41 PM EST
> >Message-id: <19991223144154...@ng-ck1.aol.com>
> >
> >>From: Marty Robinson <mart...@home.com>
> >>Date: Thu, 23 December 1999 01:32 PM EST
> >>Message-id: <38626AD6...@home.com>
> >>
> >>Mike,
> >>
> >>I agree with your essential point that *best* lists are an exercise
> >>in futility and that their ubiquity has become tedious. But they can
> >>be fun, and they seem to me to fulfill a human desire to rank
> >>things. Much of what transpires on RMO, including your learned
> >>contributions, is a discussion of rankings.
> >>
> >>Placing "sopranos" and "dramatic tenors" under the same umbrella is
> >>the ranking desire taken a step further. If you were to ask RMO
> >>posters to name the greatest singer of the century, I'd wager Caruso
> >>would win (He'd get my vote) but second place might go to another
> >>voice category.
An idiot newspaper reporter would probably say "Elvis."
> >>Michael Jordan would win "greatest shooting guard" of all time hands
> >>down, but who's satisfied with that? Is he the greatest basketball
> >>player? Arguments abound. Is he the greatest athlete of the century?
> >>Even more contention. But there he is, along with Jim Thorpe,
> >>Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth and Babe Didricksen. An impossible choice?
> >>Apples and oranges? Sopranos and tenors? Sure. But it's fun.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Marty Robinson
> >>
> >>
> >~~~~~~~~~~
> >Dear Mr. Robinson,
> >
> snip/snip
> >
> >Happy Holidays to you and your family (which I hope includes the
> >dedicatee of a notable ballad by Simon & Garfunkel),
> >
> >==G/P Dave
>
> ------------
>
> Well I'm all for wishing Martin Robinson Happy Holidays, too, Dave,
> but why do you want to invoke "Cecilia"? She's breaking his heart and
> spoiling his confidence now!
>
> God Bless You, please, anyway!
>
> Pat Finley
>
> Or che mi conoscete
> parlate voi. Deh parlate.
> Chi siete? Vi piaccia dir?
I'm down on my knees!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Mike Richter
Marty Robinson wrote:
>
> And a Merry Christmas to Grandpa Dave from Grandpa Marty, as well as to Pat
> Finley, Andy and all the other cognoscenti in RMO.
>
> Dave, I stand second to no one in my admiration of Michael Jordan, but the folks
> who argue Wilt's case also have a point. No argument about Banks, even from this
> lifelong Sox fan.
>
I watched Wilt from high school (he went to Overbrook, I went to
Central) to the Lakers. I have some rather fond memories of the short
period when he was on court with Baylor and West - each of whom has a
claim for best at his position. I watched Kareem from his first game at
UCLA. I saw Russell in the Garden. I trust I need not go on.
In short, I suggest that you (we?) are rapidly proving my point about
the folly of listing 'the greatest' - whether you seek the one, the ten,
or the hundred.
Mike
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Thu, 23 December 1999 06:35 PM EST
>Message-id: <3862B1C3...@home.com>
>
>And a Merry Christmas to Grandpa Dave from Grandpa Marty, as well as to Pat
>Finley, Andy and all the other cognoscenti in RMO.
>
>Dave, I stand second to no one in my admiration of Michael Jordan, but the
>folks
>who argue Wilt's case also have a point. No argument about Banks, even from
>this
>lifelong Sox fan.
>
>and
>bore a slight resemblance to Anne Bancroft, did inspire a few comments when
>she
>signed her checks at the supermarket.
>
>Marty
>
Dear Marty,
A "Sox" fan? You just increased your standing by 10 points in my estimation.
You come by your love of opera naturally since you, by dint of your baseball
loyalty, know the true meaning of suffering.
As a noted Chicago radio raconteur (Jean Sheppard) once observed: three hits by
Appling was as close to tasting victory as any Pale Hose fan would get in the
30s and 40s. Any team that could boast a player named Zeke "Banana-nose"
Bonura couldn't be totally without redeeming social value.
My enjoyment of the Cubs is strictly on the basis of the affinity of the
ambience of Wrigley Field to that of Ebbets Field. But I must say that I
really enjoyed the 1977 crew that featured the likes of Zisk, Gamble,
Soderholm.
Wilt, I grant, was a very efficient scoring machine. But, Michael, so balletic
and just beautiful to watch. Those floating layups where in midair he would
move the ball from one hand to another and gently jam the ball down the hoop --
ah that was a beautiful thing to behold. And I am a lifelong Knicks fan going
back to the days of Max Zaslovsky (former Chicago Stag), Connie Simmons, Carl
Braun, Ernie Vandeweigh.
Now, operatically speaking, you can see there is confusion and consternation in
the r.m.o. craft -- especially on the matter of Placido Domingo. If Stan
Musial had been a tenor, I think he would have sung like Domingo.
How say you? Being a Sox fan, you, I am sure, would have a Klu.
All the best,
==G/P Dave
Capa081348
Not to mention Billy "Peerce", Luis M'appari cio, Nellie (Cunning Little Vixen)
Fox, Minnie "Orest" Saturnino Minoso, Al (Forging Song) Smith, Early (a l'alba
Vincero!) Wynn, and the rest of the late 50's White Sox heroes!
Who were led by quite possibly the greatest of all baseball managers, Al Lopez.
Best Regards,
Capa081348
>From: Mike Richter mric...@cpl.net
>In short, I suggest that you (we?) are rapidly proving my point about the
folly of listing 'the greatest' - whether you seek the one, the ten, or the
hundred.
>Mike
>
---------------------
Hello Mike,
I don't think I'd use the word "folly" if the idea of the "list" is to suggest
that these operas, singers, films, ballplayers, what have you, are those who
"I" personally find most valuable or important. "Unsatisfactory", maybe.
I think telling each other our preferences, whether in music, literature,
cuisine, or love-making) makes for a world in which we better understand each
other.
At one point Tom Kaufman and I compared our top twenty lists; half of the
operas on my list (sprinkled liberally with Mozart, Wagner, and R Strauss)
wouldn't have finished in his top two hundred. And I was indifferent to half
of the operas on his list. comprised mostly of French and Italian works in the
1820-1860 era. I'm not sure that we shared even a single title. But it was an
interesting exercise, and we learned a great deal about each other's tastes
during the exchange. In a spirit of friendliness, and trying to discover where
each of us was coming from.
Neither of us converted the other, and it is *extremely* unlikely that we ever
will :-).
But that exchange of lists, and the discussion that followed, was a valuable
way of sharing a great deal of information quickly.
And isn't that why we're here?
This can be done without "lists", of course, but lists are both fun and a sort
of a shorthand device for provoking further discussion.
It is only if I take it to the next step, and dogmatically state that my
preferences take precedence over yours, that we run into trouble.
Mine *do*, of course, but that's another thread! :-)
Marty Robinson
--Montaigne
Mike Richter wrote:
> Gentlemen (the women are too wise to get into this sort of mess):
>
> Marty Robinson wrote:
> >
> > And a Merry Christmas to Grandpa Dave from Grandpa Marty, as well as to Pat
> > Finley, Andy and all the other cognoscenti in RMO.
> >
> > Dave, I stand second to no one in my admiration of Michael Jordan, but the folks
> > who argue Wilt's case also have a point. No argument about Banks, even from this
> > lifelong Sox fan.
> >
> I watched Wilt from high school (he went to Overbrook, I went to
> Central) to the Lakers. I have some rather fond memories of the short
> period when he was on court with Baylor and West - each of whom has a
> claim for best at his position. I watched Kareem from his first game at
> UCLA. I saw Russell in the Garden. I trust I need not go on.
>
> In short, I suggest that you (we?) are rapidly proving my point about
> the folly of listing 'the greatest' - whether you seek the one, the ten,
> or the hundred.
>
> Mike
>
Marty Robinson
know?), but I remember watching Appling, Kolloway, Tucker, Wright, Tresh and a
pretty fair pitching staff of Lopat, Grove, Lyons, Dietrich and Lee in '47--the
year I shook hands with Babe Ruth in the Comisky stands. Honest.
And I well remember watching Max (The Touch) Zazlovsky when he was with the Stags.
He'd dribble full tilt, stop, and loose a two hand set shot with both feet on the
ground. The one-hand jumper hadn't been invented.
Do you think this is too far off topic? Nah. But I'll put it back on.
If, in comparing Musial with Domingo, you meant they were, I think that works.
both atop the second echelon.
Marty
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
> >From: Marty Robinson <mart...@home.com>
> >Date: Thu, 23 December 1999 06:35 PM EST
> >Message-id: <3862B1C3...@home.com>
> >
> >And a Merry Christmas to Grandpa Dave from Grandpa Marty, as well as to Pat
> >Finley, Andy and all the other cognoscenti in RMO.
> >
> >Dave, I stand second to no one in my admiration of Michael Jordan, but the
> >folks
> >who argue Wilt's case also have a point. No argument about Banks, even from
> >this
> >lifelong Sox fan.
> >
> >And, yes, when The Graduate was released, my wife, who then had black hair
> >and
> >bore a slight resemblance to Anne Bancroft, did inspire a few comments when
> >she
> >signed her checks at the supermarket.
> >
> >Marty
> >
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dear Marty,
>
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Fri, 24 December 1999 10:42 PM EST
>Message-id: <38643D1A...@home.com>
>
>Well, I was only 5 when Banana Nose was in his prime (.307 lifetime, did ya
>know?), but I remember watching Appling, Kolloway, Tucker, Wright, Tresh and
>a
>pretty fair pitching staff of Lopat, Grove, Lyons, Dietrich and Lee in
>'47--the
>year I shook hands with Babe Ruth in the Comisky stands. Honest.
>
>And I well remember watching Max (The Touch) Zazlovsky when he was with the
>Stags.
>He'd dribble full tilt, stop, and loose a two hand set shot with both feet on
>the
>ground. The one-hand jumper hadn't been invented.
>
>Do you think this is too far off topic? Nah. But I'll put it back on.
>
>If, in comparing Musial with Domingo, you meant they were, I think that
>works.
>both atop the second echelon.
>
>Marty
Hey, that's real good: Bonura hitting .307 lifetime.
OK, this shouldn't be too hard for you: what team boasted a roster containing
the likes of Mike Kreevich, Sig Jackucki, Denny Galehouse and Chet Laabs?
(Doncha love those names?)
And one more: can you name the 4 knuckleball pitchers featured in the starting
rotation of the 1945 Washington Senators?
Musial may have been (only) at the top of the second echelon at Wrigley Field,
but I'd have to say he was the greatest visitor that ever tattooed the
rightfield wall and fence at Ebbets Field (where he earned his soubriquet, "The
Man").
==G/P Dave
Capa081348
>>
>>If, in comparing Musial with Domingo, you meant they were, I think that
>>works.
>>both atop the second echelon.
>>
>>Marty
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Hey, that's real good: Bonura hitting .307 lifetime.
>
>OK, this shouldn't be too hard for you: what team boasted a roster containing
>the likes of Mike Kreevich, Sig Jackucki, Denny Galehouse and Chet Laabs?
>(Doncha love those names?)
>
*** Those would be the 1944 St. Louis Browns, in their one brief shining
moment, when they won the AL championship, only to fall to their cross-town
rivals, the Cardinals in the Fall Classic.
(The Browns had the 2nd most HR's in the league that wartime season, 72, only
two more than Mr. McGwire hit in 1998.)
And, Dave, how could you misspell a simple name like Sig (short for Siegmund)
Jakucki? :-). The Sigmeister, sadly, lost his only start in the World Series.
The Browns were actually ahead of the mighty Cardinals, two games to one, until
Harry (the Cat) Brecheen outdueled Jakucki in game four. And the Browns lost
the following two games as well, giving the Cardinals their second World Series
victory (in three appearances) in three years.
Looking at the box scores for the series, the Browns' pitchers did a great job,
holding the Cardinals to nine earned runs in six games; but they gave up seven
unearned runs, too, which must have weighed heavily against them.
>And one more: can you name the 4 knuckleball pitchers featured in the starting
rotation of the 1945 Washington Senators?
*** Early Wynn, certainly. I'm fairly confident about Dutch Leonard? And I'm
guessing now, but how about Wolff and Pieretti?
>
>Musial may have been (only) at the top of the second echelon at Wrigley Field,
but I'd have to say he was the greatest visitor that ever tattooed the
rightfield wall and fence at Ebbets Field (where he earned his soubriquet, "The
Man").
>
>==G/P Dave
>
*** Dave, how did Musial stay out of the war? He must have taken some heat for
that, no?
Curious that baseball trivia popped up just now. Yesterday I bumped into the
brother of Dan Okrent on-line, one of the country's leading writers on baseball
lore
(he was a contributor to Ken Burns' "Baseball" documentary, among many other
things).
Three Cheers for the St. Louis Browns!
Pat
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Sat, 25 December 1999 08:24 AM EST
>Message-id: <19991225082432...@ng-fp1.aol.com>
>
snip / snip
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I write this as I am taping -- for a very dear friend -- my recording of RIENZI
in appreciation of a wonderful gift of this opera sung in Italian with
DiStefano leading the cast. There are few operas I would like to see staged
(as opposed to just hearing then) and RIENZI is one of them (BENVENUTO CELLINI
is another).
OK, Pat, I flubbed the spelling of Jakucki (who worked in a defense plant to
supplement his meager income as a Brownie). I loved the "appleheads" -- we
called them that because of the stripes they wore on their caps giving them a
more dome-like shape.
Now, my esteemed Dr. Finley -- the Cardinals and Browns were NOT cross-town
rivals. They both used the *same* home field -- Sportsmans Park. (In fact the
1944 World Series was the last one in which all games were played at the same
field -- and the first time that such had occurred since 1922).
Musial I think was briefly in service (in 1943) but was released when it was
found that he was partially lame in one arm. Old #6 was always my favorite
non-Dodger. By the way, I think Laabs homered twice in the final game of the
1944 season as the Briowns beat the Yankees while the Senators polished off the
Tigers to gain the Appleheads their lone American League championship.
You didn't pass the knuckleball test. The four were:
Dutch Leonard, Johnny Niggeling, (Roger?) Wolff and I forget the fourth one
(was Wynn a knuckleballer?).
I remember that in the '44 series, first sacker George McQuinn homered to win
one game. Mort Cooper struck out 12 to Galehouse's 10 (in game 4 I believe).
Whitey Kurowski recently died -- outstanding Cardinal 3rd baseman. By the way
-- this should be easy for you -- who were The Octopus and The Antelope.
Finalmente -- do you know the ballet music from RIENZI? It is postively
swashbuckling and I bet not 1 out of 100 Wagnerites would recognize it as the
work of Der Meister. It is vivacious and as zingy as anything by Delibes.
And, lord those wonderful march rhythms. Not to know Wagner's first three
operas is to miss out on a composer who could meet Donizetti, Weber and
Meyerbeer on their own terms with surprising ease. The trumpet solo in the
ballet is like Donizetti at his liveliest.
Paul Bekker has an interesting thesis regarding Wagner -- namely that all
operas after the TANNHAEUSER revision are a revisiting of earlier works but
with heightened confidence and craftsmanship. Surely MEISTERSINGER and
GOETTERDAEMMERUNG have musically robust qualities that sweep away dramaturgical
theories. I must say I enjoy the latter, although I think the libretto is its
weakest element (kind of like the defensive capabilities of the beloved
Browns).
I'll make that four cheers for the 1944 Browns, the Nibelungen proletariat of
major league history, smitten by the Valhallen Cardinals.
==G/P Dave
Capa081348
>>
>>Three Cheers for the St. Louis Browns!
>>
>>Pat
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
G/P Dave wrote:
>I write this as I am taping -- for a very dear friend -- my recording of
RIENZI in appreciation of a wonderful gift of this opera sung in Italian with
DiStefano leading the cast. There are few operas I would like to see staged
(as opposed to just hearing them) and RIENZI is one of them BENVENUTO CELLINI
is another).
>
Jakucki worked in a defense plant to supplement his meager income as a
Brownie). I loved the "appleheads" -- we
called them that because of the stripes they wore on their caps giving them a
>more dome-like shape.
>
>Now, my esteemed Dr. Finley -- the Cardinals and Browns were NOT cross-town
rivals. They both used the *same* home field -- Sportsmans Park. (In fact the
1944 World Series was the last one in which all games were played at the same
field -- and the first time that such had occurred since 1922).
*** You have me there, my friend. I had forgotten that they both played at
Sportsman's Park -- a few curious features of that storied park include
Capa081348
>From: grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE)
>I write this as I am taping -- for a very dear friend -- my recording of
>RIENZI in appreciation of a wonderful gift of this opera sung in Italian with
Di Stefano leading the cast. There are few operas I would like to see staged
(as opposed to just hearing them) and RIENZI is one of them (BENVENUTO CELLINI
is another).
>
Jakucki worked in a defense plant to
supplement his meager income as a Brownie). I loved the "appleheads" -- we
>called them that because of the stripes they wore on their caps giving them a
>more dome-like shape.
>
>Now, my esteemed Dr. Finley -- the Cardinals and Browns were NOT cross-town
rivals. They both used the *same* home field -- Sportsmans Park. (In fact the
1944 World Series was the last one in which all games were played at the same
field -- and the first time that such had occurred since 1922).
>
*** Thanks, Dave, I had forgotten that they shared Sportsman's Park. According
to "Total Baseball" the Cards had their office on Dodier St, which seems to
have run along first base, while the Browns had theirs on North Grand, which
apparently ran parallel to the fence leading from the right field foul line to
center field.
The Busch eagle atop the left center field fence would flap its wings after a
Cardinal HR. Gussie Busch tried to name the place Budweiser stadium after he
bought the team from the Browns in 1953, but pressure from the NL office put
the kibosh on that. In the 1950's Bill Veeck's family lived in an apartment
under the stands. Talk about home games!
>Musial I think was briefly in service (in 1943) but was released when it was
found that he was partially lame in one arm.
*** Musial played in over 150 games in 1943, but in only 140 in 1942; perhaps
that was the year of his brief stint. Hard to believe that a man with a bad
arm could hit over .330 lifetime with 400+ HR's, though.
>You didn't pass the knuckleball test. The four were: Dutch Leonard, Johnny
Niggeling, (Roger?) Wolff and I forget the fourth one -- (was Wynn a
knuckleballer?).
*** Oh, stop your Niggeling! :-) Three out of Four's a passing grade, isn't it?
*** Yes. Wynn was the one I was sure of. He played in Cleveland (my home town)
and for the White Sox (my favorite team) in the 1950's and had a great
knuckleball. Unlike most knuckleballers, though, he was a fine "conventional"
pitcher. Like Maglie, he didn't let batters get too comfortable in the
batter's box.
>
I remember that in the '44 series, first sacker George McQuinn homered to win
one game. Mort Cooper struck out 12 to Galehouse's 10 (in game 4 I believe).
*** Jakucki lost game 4; Galehouse beat Cooper 2-1 in the first game; Cooper
took his revenge 2-0 in the fifth game.
>Whitey Kurowski recently died -- outstanding Cardinal 3rd baseman. By the way
- this should be easy for you -- who were The Octopus and The Antelope?
*** Please remember that this was before I was born, Dave -- nicknames don't
always appear in the record books. But since we're talking about St Louis
baseball, I'll take a stab at Marty Marion, the slick fielding shortstop as the
Octopus? And maybe graceful outfielder Terry Moore as the Antelope? Although
there was another player, one Bergamo, with the Cards, whose name would have
been graced by that soubriquet -- Augie (The Antelope) Bergamo. What a name
that would have been! But for all I know, Augie might have weighed 260 lbs. :-)
>
>Finalmente -- do you know the ballet music from RIENZI? It is postively
>swashbuckling and I bet not 1 out of 100 Wagnerites would recognize it as the
work of Der Meister. It is vivacious and as zingy as anything by Delibes.
*** I do not have Rienzi. I really only know its wonderful overture. You picked
a fine day to remind me of its beauties!! Had you told me a couple of days ago,
I might have dropped a couple of hints. :-)
(In fairness, you have praised it numerous times in the past) -- I did,
however, leave very definite hints about the Verdi Requiem, per your
instructions. My wife is napping now, in expectation of the familial onslaught
this afternoon; we'll see then if the hints took hold.
>And, lord those wonderful march rhythms. Not to know Wagner's first three
operas is to miss out on a composer who could meet Donizetti, Weber and
Meyerbeer on their own terms with surprising ease. The trumpet solo in the
ballet is like Donizetti at his liveliest.
>
Paul Bekker has an interesting thesis regarding Wagner -- namely that all
operas after the TANNHAEUSER revision are a revisiting of earlier works but
with heightened confidence and craftsmanship. Surely MEISTERSINGER and
GOETTERDAEMMERUNG have musically robust qualities that sweep away
dramaturgical theories. I must say I enjoy the latter, although I think the
libretto is
its weakest element (kind of like the defensive capabilities of the beloved
Browns).
>
>I'll make that four cheers for the 1944 Browns, the Nibelungen proletariat of
major league history, smitten by the Valhallen Cardinals.
*** Eddie Gaedel in his brief stint with the Browns, was indeed baseball's
answer to the Nibelungen. His 1.000 lifetime on base percentage will never be
surpassed!
Best Regards,
Pat
Marty Robinson
Well, that's a cinch. When I worked at WFMT and they were at 500 N. Michigan
Avenue, all one had to do to get to a bar called the St. Louis Browns Fan Club was
walk down a flight of stairs to the corner of Rush and Illinois. There on the
walls and behind the bar was a display of memorabilia devoted to the dear, defunct
denizens of Sportsman's Park. Veeck, Terkel, Royko, Holtzman and other luminaries
were Club regulars at whose adjacent barstool I learned. Well, Royko and I were
contemporaries (and occasional handball adversaries), so he was picking up some
stuff, too. Mike was, of course, a Cub fan, and knew he was doomed to a life of
baseball disappointment.
The Cubs and Browns had something in common. They both won pennants during the
player-depleted war years. The '45 Cubs--a pretty good team, had the fewest
players in the service in the majors. They lost to Detroit and the returning Hank
Greenberg in the Series.
Pat, you are right about Wynn, a superb all-around pitcher, and a mean SOB on the
mound. A sportswriter once opined that he would knock down his own mother. Wynn
replied, "If she was crowdin' the plate I would."
And Dave, I back way off on Musial. Top ten in career hits, extra base hits, runs
batted in and runs scored is most certainly top echelon (I must do more research
before popping off). But might not Domingo qualify for sheer number of roles? A
singer doesn't obtain that sort of diversity and longevity unless a lot of people,
including impresarios and audiences, think he is something special.
Marty
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
> >From: Marty Robinson <mart...@home.com>
> >Date: Fri, 24 December 1999 10:42 PM EST
> >Message-id: <38643D1A...@home.com>
> >
> >Well, I was only 5 when Banana Nose was in his prime (.307 lifetime, did ya
> >know?), but I remember watching Appling, Kolloway, Tucker, Wright, Tresh and
> >a
> >pretty fair pitching staff of Lopat, Grove, Lyons, Dietrich and Lee in
> >'47--the
> >year I shook hands with Babe Ruth in the Comisky stands. Honest.
> >
> >And I well remember watching Max (The Touch) Zazlovsky when he was with the
> >Stags.
> >He'd dribble full tilt, stop, and loose a two hand set shot with both feet on
> >the
> >ground. The one-hand jumper hadn't been invented.
> >
> >Do you think this is too far off topic? Nah. But I'll put it back on.
> >
> >If, in comparing Musial with Domingo, you meant they were, I think that
> >works.
> >both atop the second echelon.
> >
> >Marty
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hey, that's real good: Bonura hitting .307 lifetime.
>
> OK, this shouldn't be too hard for you: what team boasted a roster containing
> the likes of Mike Kreevich, Sig Jackucki, Denny Galehouse and Chet Laabs?
> (Doncha love those names?)
>
> And one more: can you name the 4 knuckleball pitchers featured in the starting
> rotation of the 1945 Washington Senators?
>
GRNDPADAVE
I realize we are way off topic -- from the great singers of the 90's to the
forgotten baseball heroes of the 40's.
The fourth knuckleballer on the Senators, incidentally, was Mickey Haefner.
In 1945 the Senators actually finished their season in first place, one game
ahead of the Detroit Tigers. Unfortunately, for the Senators, the Tigers'
season had yet a week to run. On the last day, and in the ninth inning no
less, Hank Greenberg muscled a grand slam to defeat the defending league
champion Browns thereby vaulting the Tigers into the last World Series under
World War II conditions. Travel restrictions led to the first three games
being played at Briggs Stadium and the remainder at Wrigley Field.
The Cubs had wonderful players like Phil Cavaretta, Peanuts Lowery, Stan Hack,
Billy Jurges, Hooks Wyse, Wild Bill Ericson, Hank Borowy and Claude Passeau.
The Tigers featured Eddie Mayo, Skeeter Webb, Rudy York, Paul Richards, Doc
Cramer, Dizzy Trout, Hal Newhouser and Hammerin' Hank.
Yet both the Tigers and Cubs had very low winning percentages. When one
sportswriter was asked which team would win the Fall Classic, his blunt and
witty reply was: "Neither!"
Now as for Stan Musial (from Donora, Pa.) -- he was coached by one of the rare
White Sox heroes of the 1919 World Series (Dickie Kerr). Musial was groomed to
be a pitcher, but a sore arm forced him to become an outfielder. He was a
decent but unspectacular outfielder, yet he was a magnificent hitter. His
lifetime 475 home runs constitutes the highest total by someone who *never* led
his league in home runs. He won 7 batting championships and finished with a
.337 lifetime batting average. Musial had a distinctive corkscrew stance
(described as someone batting as though he was standing around a corner). One
day, teammate Joe Garagiola in an usually optimistic frame of mind chortled:
"Stan, I feel so good today, I think I'll get at least three hits and hit only
line drives. Ever feel like that, Stan?" Musial smiled, "Yes, Joe, every
day!"
Now, to bring things back to r.m.o., Domingo exhibits a very high batting
average, lots of home runs, but perhaps never a league champion. Domingo hits
line drives consistently but not the towering homers that Pavarotti was once
capable of. Placido has that sheer dependability and team spiritedness that
makes him an asset to any cast in which he appears. As many r.m.o.ers have
observed -- in any given role, one can often name another tenor whose
performance surpasses Domingo's, but when one considers the overall repertory,
Domingo achieves a very high average. None of his recordings, imho, is less
than very good. Many of them, especially the Verdi operas set in Spain, elicit
an additional verve. The musicianship, I think, is always exemplary.
Consequently Domingo's qualities of reliability, high performance and elan
lead me to regard him as the operatic analogue of Stan Musial.
==G/P Dave
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>From: Marty Robinson <mart...@home.com>
>Date: Sat, 25 December 1999 09:00 PM EST
>Message-id: <386576BF...@home.com>
dtritter
chuck hostetler, who had trouble remaining erect while on the baspaths,
but far more important, the fair catcher who became a renowned manager,
the pride of waxahatchie [spelling?] texas, paul richards.
Marty Robinson
Marty Robinson
andre35
Andy
Capa081348
>Date: Sat, 25 December 1999 09:00 PM EST
>Message-id: <386576BF...@home.com>
>
>Dave & Pat,
walk down a flight of stairs to the corner of Rush and Illinois. There on the
walls and behind the bar was a display of memorabilia devoted to the dear,
defunct denizens of Sportsman's Park. Veeck, Terkel, Royko, Holtzman and other
luminaries were Club regulars at whose adjacent barstool I learned.
>
>
-------------------
Ah, to have been a fly on that wall! It's enough to drive a man to drink!
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Sun, 26 December 1999 02:33 PM EST
>Message-id: <19991226143358...@ng-bj1.aol.com>
Dear Marty & Pat,
You know, every time I see "Going My Way" I feel a twinge of pity when I see
Bing Crosby sporting a Browns jacket. I think there is a message of redemption
for even the hopeless when a gentle New York parish priest can be seen wearing
the colors of the lowly Browns in Yankee country.
Rise Stevens was in that movie, too. And she was always a class act.
==G/P dave
andre35
AE
Capa081348 wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Top Ten Opera Singers of the '90's
> >From: Marty Robinson mart...@home.com
> >Date: Sat, 25 December 1999 09:00 PM EST
> >Message-id: <386576BF...@home.com>
> >
> >Dave & Pat,
> all one had to do to get to a bar called the St. Louis Browns Fan Club was
> walk down a flight of stairs to the corner of Rush and Illinois. There on the
> walls and behind the bar was a display of memorabilia devoted to the dear,
> defunct denizens of Sportsman's Park. Veeck, Terkel, Royko, Holtzman and other
> luminaries were Club regulars at whose adjacent barstool I learned.
> >
> >Marty
> >
> -------------------
>
> Ah, to have been a fly on that wall! It's enough to drive a man to drink!
>
> Pat Finley
>
Zoe Freedman
the top are even better than the ones at the bottom?
Otherwise I totally agree.
Zoe Freedman
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Zoe Freedman
putting Ramey on this list? I'd like to know what other
people's opinions of him are.
GIAIMO5
I cannot agree that perhaps that
Mr and Mrs Alagna should be on the list.
Don't really think they belong on that list.
At least not yet.
Thanks
LoQuigley
Lis K. Froding
gia...@aol.com (GIAIMO5) wrote:
>LoQuigley
They don't belong on the list for the 90s yet? Do you expect more years
in the 90s? <g>
Lis