Franco Corelli as Don Carlo
GRNDPADAVE
perception in the minds of those who hear this recording.
One of the neat things about Opera d'Oro is that they capture and preserve
reader comments about their recordings and do not edit these comments.
From the remarks below, you will see that people, such as I, who are not among
Corelli's host of fans have, nevertheless, very kind things to say about his
performance in this magnificent production.
If you love this opera, I do not think you would want to deprive yourself of
this album, especially at such a bargain price. The Ghiaurov / Talvela
face-off is the only one that competes with the Christoff / Neri encounter in
the old RCA set (feebly conducted by Gabriel Santini).
If Geoffrey Riggs had not given us his take on the DON CARLOS discography, I
would warmly recommend that he do so.
==G/P Dave
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Title: VERDI: DON CARLO
Artist: CORELLI/JANOWITZ/WAECHTER
Label: OPD
Catalog #: 1131
Released: 9/1/97
List Price: $20.94
Member Price: $16.75
Members Save: $4.19
Media Type: COMPACT DISC
# CDs/Cass: 3
Availability: In Stock
Horst Stein Conductor
Wiener Philharmoniker & Chor der Wiener Staatsoper
Recorded live, Wien, October 25, 1970.
READER COMMENTS
This is a flawed, but exciting, emotional performance that I prefer to most of
the other versions. Corelli brings incredible involvement to a role that is
usually essayed by some fairly pallid tenors. Waechter has a somewhat dry voice
for this role, but he is so involved in the character that you forget the tonal
quality and get drawn into Posa's world in a much deeper way than with some of
the more 'Italianate' baritones. Corelli and Waechter establish an intensity
that pulls the other three, particularly Janowitz, into a drama that I feel
makes this one of Verdi's greatest works. This is all about conflict. Conflict
between love and duty. Heart and country. Father and son. Ghiaurov sings
Phillip better than anyone I have ever heard (including the great Ramey) and
Verrett will take your breath away. So plunk down your measly 18 bucks-it ain't
gonna get any better than this.
- DAVID RIGG , NEW YORK (2/17/03 10:35:00 AM)
I justed to this Don Carlo for the secondtime since I received it and what a
treasure it is. Franco Corelli does sing and it is wonderful right on the mark.
The wonderful voice of Gundula Janowitz is so easy to listen to. Shirley
Verrett does a beatiful job with "don fatale". Could go down and say same thing
for the whole cast. This is a must get opera. The conducting of Horst Stein
keeps eveything at a brisk place and brings each singer up to top form. The on
thing that does seem a little much is the appluse. I do like live recordings
brings you into the opera more than a studio one. Both are good depends on the
opera and singers, this one great live showcase and background noise is at a
minimum. But think they couold have cut some of the appluse, one persons
opinion which has nothing to do with the great recording. You'll not go wrong
getting this one and this price wow.
- EDWARD D. LOCH , PICKERINGTON (6/27/01 2:42:00 PM)
It should be noted that this is the complete Four Act version of the opera,
representing therefore, Verdi's last official statement of this huge drama.
There is no Fontainebleau scene to hold back the action. Thus it all begins
("in medias res") with the gloom of San Yuste and the hovering spirit of the
defunct Charles V.
The performance (probably from Salzburg) is ably conducted by Horst Stein and
benefits from outstanding performances in all the major roles. What I find most
unusual is the sensitivity of Franco Corelli. He actually *sings* -- and quite
beautifully. (Too often this tenor was inclined to bellow as one can hear in
his EMI recordings of NORMA and AIDA).
Eberhard Waechter is also in unusually good form as Rodrigo (Count Posa). He
neither barks nor croons, but sings quite robustly producing as fine an Act I
duet as one will hear apart from the legendary Bjoerling / Merrill recording.
Gundula Janowitz is superb in a role that looks forward to Desdemona, another
ill-treated wife falsely accused of adulterry.
The central scene of this opera -- and one of the great scenes anywhere to be
found -- involves the confrontation of King Philip II and the Grand Inquisitor
-- managed to perfection here by Nicolai Ghiaurov and Martti Talvela.
This is one of Opera d'oro's best offerings. The sound is quite good, too.
- DAVID SCHECHTER , CHICAGO, ILLINOIS (4/24/01 8:47:00 AM)
Just a masterpiece! Listen carefully the duet "E Dessa" between Franco Corelli
an Gundula Janowitz! Magnificent! What a performance! Unique! Franco Corelli
with his wonderful VOICE makes us forgetting that this is Opera! He performs in
such a way that seems real to him and to us, who are just listeners! Thank you
Franco Corelli for giving us the pleasure of listening your beautiful voice and
art of singing!
- SUSANA ALVES , LISBON (4/10/01 2:20:00 AM)
I have always been a little annoyed with Franco Corelli. It is a truly great
sound, but the musicianship is truly awful. Well, here is a recording that
presents him in wonderful voice, behaving very well and, as a Don Carlo that
one remembers at the end of the opera. All the rest of the cast is as good as
you will find anywhere: Ghiaurov a Philip that is full of menace and
vulnerability at the same time, a titan of an Inquisitor (literally and
figuratively) in Talvela. The confrontation scene between these two make your
hair stand on end, and I have repeated it many times when I have listened to
this recording. Verrett is always a force to be reckoned with, and she is more
than equal to the part and her colleagues here. I find there is something truly
haunting about the Elisabetta of Gundula Janowitz--one truly feels the pain and
sorrow of this character. Now, I have other pirated recordings of this opera,
including the fabled Met performance with Bjoerling, Siepi, etc. This one is
more than a match to them, and to any of studio recordings too. You will never
find a better bargain at the price, too. Listen and enjoy!
- MRZE...@NETSCAPE.NET , LONG BEACH, NEW YORK (3/20/01 5:39:00 PM)
Elizabeth Hubbell
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
>
> DON CARLO is not the tenor's opera, but Franco Corelli may change that
> perception in the minds of those who hear this recording.
>
> One of the neat things about Opera d'Oro is that they capture and preserve
> reader comments about their recordings and do not edit these comments.
>
> From the remarks below, you will see that people, such as I, who are not among
> Corelli's host of fans have, nevertheless, very kind things to say about his
> performance in this magnificent production.
>
> If you love this opera, I do not think you would want to deprive yourself of
> this album, especially at such a bargain price. The Ghiaurov / Talvela
> face-off is the only one that competes with the Christoff / Neri encounter in
> the old RCA set (feebly conducted by Gabriel Santini).
>
> If Geoffrey Riggs had not given us his take on the DON CARLOS discography, I
> would warmly recommend that he do so.
Thanks for the kind words.
Actually, I zipped one off a while back (Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:13:02 GMT),
but I did not go into that much detail on this Salzburg '70
performance. What I wrote in the paragraphs dealing with both Bjoerling
and Corelli (and once I'm done with some of the publicity for the
Assoluta book, I may amplify on it a bit) was:
"IMO, the other two protagonists that ought to be considered as equally
wide-ranging in their mastery of the different facets of the role are
Jussi Bjoerling and Franco Corelli. There are significant differences
between these two, of course, and when they arrive at a point of mastery
in this music, they reach it from different directions. Bjoerling is
ever the secure musician, but it took Webster's stage direction at the
Metropolitan to bring Bjoerling to as live an awareness of words,
volatility and dynamic variety (intrinsic to this role, IMO) as
Corelli's. OTOH, Corelli's occasionally present/occasionally absent
grasp of subtlety and his uneven musicianship can play fast and loose
with his Don Carlo as early as the early '60s or as late as the early
'70s. Fortunately, Margaret Webster's Met production in 1950 caught
Bjoerling at just the right moment, as heard in a "live" broadcast from
the 50/51 season, and when the Met gave the opera on tour in late 1966,
Corelli was at his most imaginative, as well as his vocal best. (Some
admire the solid ensemble around Corelli in the Vienna broadcast under
Stein (1970), but I do not find Corelli quite as open and generous here,
and, even though the overall cast in Vienna is superior, Vienna isn't
perfect either, with a hectoring Rodrigo, IMO, in Eberhard Waechter; a
still later, equally exciting, ensemble is heard around Corelli in 1972
from the Metropolitan, but here, too, IMO, Corelli is not at his best,
while the cast around him is still not as satisfying, though good, as in
the '77 Abbado or the '58 Giulini -- if one can't have an ensemble that
at least rivals those two, one may as well take Corelli at his very
best, i.e. in '66.) Neither Bjoerling nor Corelli are heard, at any
point in their discography, in the first act:-(.
"The Bjoerling from 1950 is burdened with an Elisabetta, who, despite a
striking instrument and much personality, only "brings it all together"
to a degree in the final scene. This is an artist whose highly
infrequent recordings from the '40s show an uncommon talent. One must
regret the decline that appears evident during her Metropolitan
sojourn. However, one reason, aside from Bjoerling, to value this
performance is the experience of Barbieri's Eboli in her galvanizing
prime. Also, Siepi's King is heard at its most youthful, Merrill's
Rodrigo is possibly as sumptuously sung as Bastianini's, and we get a
chance to hear a genuine profondo at his most youthful as well, Jerome
Hines. The conductor here is not as inspiring with this score as others
we have heard, but he does not get in the way of his sterling
protaganist.
"Neither is the conducting in the "live" tour performance in '66 that
satisfying. But Corelli is fully as inspiring as Bjoerling. Even more
than the Bjoerling performance, the chief aspect that gives this '66 set
its distinction is its protagonist at the height of his powers. The
ensemble is not as distinguished as for Bjoerling, although Kabaivanska
in '66 is a superior Elisabetta, and it's intriguing, although not too
illuminating, to hear "live" the young, immature Ghiaurov repeating his
impressively thundered, though not probing, King that we hear under
Solti. Since this set was recorded out in the middle of the auditorium
with home equipment (apparently), it is not in as good sound as the
Bjoerling set. But for anyone studying the title role, it is as
essential listening as the Vickers or the Bjoerling."
Tha-tha-tha-that's all, folks. The last time I heard the Salzburg
Corelli Don Carlo was back in the late 1980s(?), so it may be time to
revisit it. I do seem to remember (in addition to the points made
above) that it appeared not to have the same degree of spontaneity and
inwardness that are heard in '66. Just slightly calculated --
relatively speaking, of course. There's no question that, both in '66
and in '70, he shows an uncommon degree of musicianship, IMO. There may
have been something in this marvelous Hamlet-like figure that simply
brought out the best in him, making him truly engaged throughout (right
now, I find Don Carlos to be Verdi's most inspired creation, BTW).
When I zipped off the entire mega-posting on the entire Don Carlos
discography, an even more intriguing point came up: who was responsible
for the Modena version of the score, 1886? It becomes important because
I sincerely have always understood that Verdi put his imprimatur on the
Modena revival -- which only restored the entire first act!!!!!! I
realize that his last *compositional* touches on the score were in 1884,
and its removal of Act I. But since he (I thought) re-addressed that
last decision in 1886 himself, I've come to believe that the "letzte
Hand" principle would mandate that one take the entirety of the 1884
rewrites while restoring Act I to that version -- essentially what we
hear in many five-act studio versions.
Please, can anyone elaborate on Verdi's involvement with the Modena
version? Thanks.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
Terrymelin
>> reader comments about their recordings and do not edit these comments.
Opera d'Oro is label of crap. Only someone who was brain dead or cheap would
buy their products.
Terry Ellsworth
Steve Silverman
"Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030513135605...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> Opera d'Oro is label of crap. Only someone who was brain dead or cheap
would
> buy their products.
Andre! It's for you!
daniel f. tritter
Terrymelin wrote:
souns like ellsworth has been very busy.
dft
Elizabeth Hubbell
[from Geof. Riggs; not Eliz. H., my better half]
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
>
> DON CARLO is not the tenor's opera, but Franco Corelli may change that
> perception in the minds of those who hear this recording.
>
> One of the neat things about Opera d'Oro is that they capture and preserve
> reader comments about their recordings and do not edit these comments.
>
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
P.S.: I hope Mr. Tritter will excuse my having incorporated here some
of the conclusions drawn by a trusty cadre of men's-room attendants and
ushers.
Elizabeth Hubbell
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
>
> DON CARLO is not the tenor's opera, but Franco Corelli may change that
> perception in the minds of those who hear this recording.
>
> One of the neat things about Opera d'Oro is that they capture and preserve
> reader comments about their recordings and do not edit these comments.
>
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
P.S.: I hope Mr. Tritter will excuse my having incorporated here some
Premiereopera
sang it, and often, especially at the Met, where it was done very often under
Bing, and later.
In the past 25 years, Carreras and Domingo have performed Don Carlo on many
occassions worldwide. Even Pavarotti gave it a (very unsuccessful) go at La
Scala.
The previous 25 years or so featured Corelli, Tucker, Bjoerling, and even
Bergonzi sang the role a few times, though not at the Met.
Tucker said "the tenor runs around like an ass all night and everyone else gets
all the applause."
He's correct, of course, in the sense that every other leading role has at
least one big, potentially showstopping aria, while the tenor sings and sings
all night. His music is very demanding, and he has no chances of stopping any
show.
But- they couldn't have hated it too much, since they all sang it often.
Corelli had more Met broadcasts of Don Carlo than of any other opera- 5, I
think.
Tucker sang it often from 1950 until he died in 1975, and also did a few Met
broadcasts.
My favorite of these is the 1955 broadcast available from Myto in fantastic
sound. Tucker is , for me, the ideal Don Carlo here, combining what Geoffrey
Riggs says about Bjoerling and Corelli.
And Bastianini is at his youthful best, in what I think was his very first Met
broadcast. Steber is also a fine Elisabetta.
Corelli would end the tenor-baritone duet with a top C on his first two Met
broadcasts, but not after that. It may be "unmusical" but what a thrilling
note!
I love this opera, perhaps second only to Otello.
Ed
http://www.premiereopera.com for the very best in opera on CD, CD-ROM, VIDEO
Leonard Tillman
> who was brain dead or cheap would buy their
> products.
Not having yet done so, I now feel secure in the knowledge that I
am in a reasonable state of cognizance, and a most generous chap as
well. Grazie!
Leonard Tillman
-- Never do today, that which will become another's responsibility
tomorrow.
..Then, there was the fellow who toppled into an upholstery
machine...(But now he's fully recovered.)
Commspkmn
<< Opera d'Oro is label of crap. Only someone who was brain dead or cheap would
buy their products.
Terry Ellsworth
>>
Thanks, Terry!
I recently enjoyed their reissues of a Benvenuto Cellini with Franco Bonisolli,
and a Tabarro with Magda Olivero.
Definitely, one has to pick and choose with Opera d'Oro, which is a very uneven
outfit. Unfortunately, those of us who purchase from them lack the mental
capacity to do so.
Best,
Ken
Terrymelin
>> Opera d'Oro is a label of crap. Only someone who was brain dead or cheap
>would
>> buy their products.
>
>Andre! It's for you!
ROTFLOL
Terry Ellsworth
Andre Storfer
You always have something to amuse me Ellsworth.
"Brain dead or cheap"...I can't quite see the connection.
Do you think you might document that?.
"Label of Crap," your chef d'ouevre, no doubt.
Jesus, you're some fucking nincompoop.
AES
Terrymelin
>I recently enjoyed their reissues of a Benvenuto Cellini with Franco
>Bonisolli,
>and a Tabarro with Magda Olivero.
>Definitely, one has to pick and choose with Opera d'Oro, which is a very
>uneven
>outfit. Unfortunately, those of us who purchase from them lack the mental
>capacity to do so.
>Best,
>Ken
>
I am surprised that someone with your intelligence and knowledge would buy any
of these products. The vast majority are cheap rip-offs of legitimate labels'
products. and giving them any money is tantamount to being an accomplice to a
crime.
On top of that, there is not a single release of theirs that isn't available in
better sound some where else.
Terry Ellsworth
David7Gable
What nobody's telling is whether the sound of this reissue is competitive with
other issues of the same performance. In some cases, Opera d'Oro purloins from
an excellent source, but only rarely. What do you think Grandpa Dave?
-david gable
David7Gable
Yes, but only 98% of the time.
-david gable
Leonard Tillman
And for years, I believed LOC to mean "Lyric Opera of Chicago"!
L "Disillusioned In Brooklyn" T
David7Gable
Indeed, the two concepts are virtually antonymical.
-david gable
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 05/13/2003 4:39 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030513173953...@mb-m07.aol.com>
I don't know about other editions of this performance.
But you can go to OdO web site and hear exercerpts for yourself.
I think the sound is excellent.
Some people have knee-jerk reactions to OdO, but I found this and their
(Giulini) DON GIOVANNI competitive.
==G/P Dave
Commspkmn
<< On top of that, there is not a single release of theirs that isn't available
in
better sound some where else.
Terry Ellsworth
>>
Terry-
I would very much like to have the Olivero Tabarro and Bonisolli Cellini in
better sound than on the Opera d'Oro releases. What labels have issued them in
better sound?
Best,
Ken
Andre Storfer
If you keep at it, why you'll be a real boy.
But it's not likely.
AES
Commspkmn
<< I am surprised that someone with your intelligence and knowledge would buy
any
of these products. >>
Actually, the few Opera d'Oro recordings I have seemed to have been the only
releases of those performances available at the time.
Best,
Ken
Commspkmn
-david gable >>
But if you're the former, you won't be insulted at being called the latter.
Best,
Ken
Triffnocheinmal
"Ghiaurov sings Phillip better than anyone I have ever heard (including the
great Ramey)"
Ghiaurov was a great Filippo when Ramey was singing Zuniga. In their
respective primes Ghiaurov sang an infinitely more detailed, dramatic and
vocally opulent Filippo than Ramey could ever dream of.
Richard Loeb
sound is satisfactory and on-pitch. Too much junk on that label to risk it
even at the low price.
David7Gable
So I've noticed.
-david gable
David7Gable
>vocally opulent Filippo than Ramey could ever dream of.
>
Ramey must be truly awful then, because Ghiaurov was a fairly course, crude and
unsubtle Filippo.
-david gable
David7Gable
Assaults on the masculinity of others are always the last resort of schoolyard
bullies and especially those unsecure in their own masculinity.
-david gable
David7Gable
For unsecure, read insecure.
-david gable
Leonard Tillman
>Indeed, the two concepts are virtually
> antonymical.
Now, then! Let's not cast aspersions upon the Maestro, Antonymo
Votto!
May some civility at last characterize this noble board.
Terrymelin
>I would very much like to have the Olivero Tabarro and Bonisolli Cellini in
>better sound than on the Opera d'Oro releases. What labels have issued them
>in
>better sound?
>Best,
>Ken
Well, for starters, the labels that Opera d'Oro stole them from.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>
>So I've noticed.
Because they steal from legitimate labels that have done research and paid fees
and done the work, etc. Then they issue it cheaper and often manage to screw it
up anyway. They are evil.
Terry Ellsworth
GRNDPADAVE
of laying his cards on the table.
He's made only unsupported allegations regarding Opera d'oro, yet when
challenged to offer a competing label offering the same performance (but with
superior engineering) he expels another insult.
The fact is that the OdO recording sounds very good and my suspicion is that it
was taken from an FM radio broadcast.
I do not want to get into taffy-pull on this. You can hear samples of the
recording on the Internet.
Judge for yourselves. Do not let a sociopath make up your mind for you.
Here's an opportunity for a profession such as Ed Rosen or Charlie Handelman to
give their professional opinions about the sonics of this particular recording.
==G/P Dave
Commspkmn
<< Well, for starters, the labels that Opera d'Oro stole them from.
Terry Ellsworth
>>
Fine. And for starters, please tell me what those labels are.
Best,
Ken
REG
"Commspkmn" <comm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030513175737...@mb-m26.aol.com...
Andre Storfer
Don't get nervous.
I was talking about those wooden joints Gepetto gave you.
AES
Andre Storfer
---------------------
Get it right the first time.
Don't let anger color your judgement.
AES
alexis du champignon
repeatedly shoved into his ass on that broadcast!
Eeeeewww!!
-AdC
premie...@aol.com (Premiereopera) wrote in message news:<20030513143550...@mb-m03.aol.com>...
>
> Tucker sang it often from 1950 until he died in 1975, and also did a few Met
> broadcasts.
>
> My favorite of these is the 1955 broadcast available from Myto in fantastic
> sound. Tucker is , for me, the ideal Don Carlo here, combining what Geoffrey
> Riggs says about Bjoerling and Corelli.
>
Edward Waffle
GRNDPADAVE wrote in message
<20030513200822...@mb-m25.aol.com>...
>There is a person who prefers to answer with pithy little cynical jibes
instead
>of laying his cards on the table.
>
>He's made only unsupported allegations regarding Opera d'oro
Is there really any question that both Opera d'oro and Gala simply take
already recorded works and reissue them? I must have missed a lot (which I
often do) if that is not the case.
>I do not want to get into taffy-pull on this.
This response may be considered pulling your taffy, although it is not meant
to be. I am simply surprised that anyone would think other than Opera d'oro
is a pirate label--they probably even steal from other thieves.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030513195023...@mb-m20.aol.com:
I definitely want to get that _Cellini_. What was the original label that
issued it, and where might I find it?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Premiereopera
>repeatedly shoved into his ass on that broadcast!
>
>Eeeeewww!!
>
>-AdC
A most mature post from this person who called me an asshole here.
Reading this post, tell me who the real asshole is!
And this Don Carlo is Tucker at his best.
Ed
David7Gable
When Od'O's source is a compact disc release, the Od'O release should sound
exactly the same.
-david gable
David7Gable
>Votto!
If Antonymo Votto is as good as his twin brother Antonino, I would never cast
aspersions on him.
-david gable
David7Gable
Just because I don't condemn the pirates at Opera d'Oro doesn't mean I have a
peg leg myself.
-david gable
dtritter
somebody introduce this moron to signor collodi.
dft
Commspkmn
<< I definitely want to get that _Cellini_. What was the original label that
issued it, and where might I find it?>>
Matthew-
Let me know if you receive that information. I'm still waiting on that same
question.
Best,
Ken
dtritter
your dental plates. mushroom brain, you have the manners of a sow, and
the brains of a maggot.
dft
========================================================
susurrus
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote
> I fine Tabarro is on Legato Classics
>
It's hard to disagree with that.
susurrus
susurrus
"Premiereopera" <premie...@aol.com> wrote
> Tucker said "the tenor runs around like an ass all night and everyone else
gets
> all the applause."
>
Dear Ed,
This tends to confirm one of the things about Tucker that always irritated
the hell out of me. He was an a------e h---d.
susurrus
Terrymelin
>instead
>of laying his cards on the table.
>
>He's made only unsupported allegations regarding Opera d'oro, yet when
>challenged to offer a competing label offering the same
This is a subject that has been discussed for several years here. If anyone
wants to look at the volumes written on the subject I suggest they do a search.
If anyone wants to refute my claims that Opera d'Oro steals from legitimate
labels and then screws up the sound anyway I suggest they do so.
If you can't or won't, then shut up.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>to
>give their professional opinions about the sonics of this particular
>recording.
What Mr. Rosen or Mr. Handelman do is a whole heckuva lot different from what
Opera d'Oro does. They don't steal from the legitimate release of a commercial
company.
And their sonics are not the only issue.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>exactly the same.
>
>-david gable
But it doesn't always. It's obvious that the 1972 Salome from Vienna on Opera
d'Oro is a rip off of the official RCA release but they still got the pitch
wrong!
These people are amateurs and bad ones at that.
Terry Ellsworth
Andre Storfer
Just cause you say it, don't make it true.
On the other hand, when I call you a moron, you're convicted by your own
words.
AES
Commspkmn
<< If anyone wants to refute my claims that Opera d'Oro steals from legitimate
labels and then screws up the sound anyway I suggest they do so.
If you can't or won't, then shut up.
Terry Ellsworth >>
I don't think anyone was disputing what you wrote above, Terry. My question to
you about the Olivero "Tabarro" and Bonisolli "Cellini" arose from your
following comment:
<<On top of that, there is not a single release of theirs that isn't available
in
better sound some where else.
Terry Ellsworth>>
As someone who enjoyed both of the above recordings, I asked you to provide me
with the labels that have released those recordings, "in better sound." So
far, I have not received an answer.
I won't suggest that if you "can't or won't, then shut up." Rather, if you
can't provide the information, please just say so, and I'll move on.
Thanks so much.
Best,
Ken
susurrus
<... the manners of a sow, and
> the brains of a maggot.>
There's no need to drag Skip into this.
susurrus
Vocedipetto
Well I have just read this entire thread....sheesh.
Terry, you could save us all from evil, and spare yourself a lot of time spent
posting insults, if you would just answer Ken's initial question.
I would also appreciate your providing this factual info.
Thanks.
Steven
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
Hi. I really want to get that Cellini. Please tell me where I can find
the earlier, better transfer of it.
Commspkmn
<< Hi. I really want to get that Cellini. Please tell me where I can find
the earlier, better transfer of it. >>
I just checked the discography section of the Hector Berlioz website:
http://www.hberlioz.com/music/vocal.htm
There, the Opera d'Oro is the only version listed of this performance.
Of course, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
Best,
Ken
daniel f. tritter
susurrus wrote:
i'm sure that ssssssssssssussssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrrrusssssssssssss'
dear friend, ed rosen, will be grateful for this asshole hypocrite's
endorsement of his product. now ed, please send a thank-you note. i'm
sure
ssssssssssssusssssssssssurrrrrrrrusssssssss will respond with love and
kisses, and a probable infusion of some social disease.
dft
daniel f. tritter
susurrus wrote:
no. i leave this to one of our resident drag queens.
stop licking your chops, ssssssssusssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrussssssss.
dft
Vocedipetto
>http://www.hberlioz.com/music/vocal.htm
>There, the Opera d'Oro is the only version listed of this performance.
Not to worry....I am sure Terry will be supplying the info he said he has
shortly.
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 05/14/2003 9:37 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030514103706...@mb-m15.aol.com>
Ken,
Is this BC recording in French?
Thanks,
G/P Dave
daniel f. tritter
susurrus wrote:
i'm sure that ssssssssssssussssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrrrusssssssssssss'
daniel f. tritter
susurrus wrote:
no. i leave this to one of our resident drag queens.
stop licking your chops, ssssssssusssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrussssssss.
dft
HSF...@aol.com wrote:
> Dear Dan,
>
> Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you. I received the "Law and Opera"
> treatise. I'll have to wait until I get back from CA on June 3rd to read it
> as I am rushing around to get ready tor the trip. Here is the info:
>
> John Locke, my realtor, gave me the name of a lawyer that he has used who
> specializes in contract law. The name is Joe Pierce, Pierce, Atwood Law
> firm. Tel. no.: 207-791-1290. John suggests that his name be mentioned when
> your friend calls.
>
> Harriet
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030514105352...@mb-m21.aol.com:
I look forward to it. I hate getting involved in somebody else's argument,
but I really want to know; and since everybody here should know that I'm
quite fond of the music of Berlioz, I have a legitimate reason to find out.
susurrus
DupleMan wrote,
Objection, yer honor. I endorsed it not. I merely observed that it was hard
to disagree with REG's statement which was . . well, a little opaque.
And love and kisses to you too.
sursurrus
susurrus
Jacqueline Laroche wrote (twice),
> susurrus wrote:
>
> > <... the manners of a sow, and
> > > the brains of a maggot.>
> >
> > There's no need to drag Skip into this.
> >
> > susurrus
>
> no. i leave this to one of our resident drag queens.
> stop licking your chops, ssssssssusssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrussssssss.
>
I love when you talk dirty to me, Jacquie.
susurrus
David7Gable
>Opera d'Oro does.
I'm not arguing with you, but I would like for you to spell out for me just how
what Mr. Rosen and Mr. Handelman do is different from what Opera d'Oro does? I
prefer not to name names, but I purchased a recording of a performance of
Donizetti's Marino Faliero from one of these two gentlemen, and I am grateful
that he was able to supply it. Later I discovered that what I received was
simply a copy of a previous release of the same performance on another label
specializing in live material. Not that I give a damn. I paid a low price and
the dealer in question was able to supply what I wanted. I'm sure none of
these labels is paying royalties to the singers, orchestral musicians, and
conductors. Mr. Rosen and Mr. Handelman couldn't possibly afford to. Nor do I
think whichever of these gentlemen I bought Marino Faliero from has a contract
with the RAI authorizing its release. Nor, I'm sure, did the label he copied
it from. Morally, I think there's a lot of grey area here.
-david gable
Terrymelin
>me
>with the labels that have released those recordings, "in better sound." So
>far, I have not received an answer.
>I won't suggest that if you "can't or won't, then shut up." Rather, if you
>can't provide the information, please just say so, and I'll move on.
>Thanks so much.
>Best,
>Ken
>
Sorry, Ken, I wasn't referring to you. I should have been clearer.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>http://www.hberlioz.com/music/vocal.htm
>There, the Opera d'Oro is the only version listed of this performance.
>Of course, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
>Best,
It used to be available on a small, European label (I believe it was Foyer) and
is now obviously out of print. I suspect that's where Opera d'Oro stole it
from.
Terry Ellsworth
David7Gable
I get the same impression.
>It's obvious that the 1972 Salome from Vienna on Opera
>d'Oro is a rip off of the official RCA release but they still got the pitch
>wrong!
I am skeptical about this. I'm not skeptical that the pitch is wrong. I
wonder, if RCA was the source, how they could get the pitch wrong. Do machines
that copy compact discs even have the capability of transcription at the wrong
pitch? There can be pitch problems with tape, but if you take the RCA release
of a Salome recording and copy it with your CD copier, how can you screw up the
pitch? Surely the pirate doesn't make a tape of the original CD and then
release CD's based on the tape.
-david gable
Terrymelin
>> shortly.
I have -- although I will point out that I made no such claim. It's amazing how
little some people are able to read and comprehend.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>how
>what Mr. Rosen and Mr. Handelman do is different from what Opera d'Oro does?
Are you truly serious?
Opera d'Oro takes the legitimate product of another company and pirates it.
They do no work or research of their own.
What Mr. Rosen (not that he needs a defense from me) does is to get tapes, etc.
from legitmate sources (the artists, broadcasts, etc) and then he transfers
them and issues them.
He doesn't get a copy of a DG release -- like Opera d'Oro does -- and make a
copy of it and sell it.
That's the difference.
Terry Ellsworth
skip
If you don't like what Rosen and Handelman are doing, fuck off and don't buy
anything...........
"David7Gable" <david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030514124804...@mb-m15.aol.com...
Elizabeth Hubbell
Commspkmn wrote:
>
> terry...@aol.com wrote:
> << Well, for starters, the labels that Opera d'Oro stole them from.
>
> Terry Ellsworth
> >>
>
> Fine. And for starters, please tell me what those labels are.
> Best,
> Ken
Probably the real reason why the discussion tailed off on distractions
was because the saboteurs had never really heard the performance at all
and wanted to cover up that fact by useless and destructive bluster that
would show everyone else up as stupider than they were on --
*something*, didn't matter what. Just so long as they could make others
feel smaller than them for the sheer heck of it.
YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look, I freely admit I don't recall which edition of this Don Carlo I
may have heard back in the late '80s (it may even have been an LP). But
there just happen to be CD editions available on MYTO and RODOLPHE of
this item in addition to the Opera d'Oro edition.
Since others were clearly not able to answer this g_d_m simple question,
I must conclude they were particularly anxious to divert the discussion
-- and divert it they bloody well did -- beCAUSE they didn't know the
answer but were d_m_d if they were going to concede that fact to any of
us scurvy knaves here. SHEESH!!!!!
No question I partly blame myself for not having answered this simple
question much sooner and forestalled a lot of nonsense. But I
constantly underestimate the childishness of this board.
I'm only sorry I've never had the opportunity to compare the sound on
these three CD editions.
The Opera d'Oro and the Myto can be viewed at
http://galeon.hispavista.com/francocorelli/amigos609570.html
There is a listing for the Rodolphe at
http://usuarios.lycos.es/castadiva/disk.php
Now, was that so bloody hard?!
Incidentally, the '66 is available on Melodram.
NOW, CAN ANYONE HERE FINALLY TELL US HOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW THE SOUND ON
THE MYTO AND THE RODOLPHE COMPARE TO THE OPERA D'ORO --
AAAAAAAAAAND
WHAT ARE YOUR REFLECTIONS -- PLEASE!!! -- ON THE RELATIVE MERITS OF
CORELLI'S ARTISTRY IN THE '66 VERSUS THE '70???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU CAN'T ADDRESS EITHER QUESTION, PRAY SPARE US YOUR TEDIOUS
ONE-UPS-MAN-SHIP IN ITS STEAD. WE'VE HAD JUST ABOUT ENOUGH!!!!!!!!
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
P.S.: That trusty cadre of men's-room attendants and ushers strongly
urged against my sending this screed. So Mr. Tritter can now cut them
some slack, since this irate posting was entirely my own idea. He can
be annoyed with me and not my handlers.
Elizabeth Hubbell
Probably the real reason why the discussion tailed off on distractions
daniel f. tritter
susurrus wrote:
when reading [or any ] comprehension is as low as yours, you have to
descend to the depths. since dirt is your well known medium, the solution
is plain as the nose on your face ... in direct apposition to your colon.
dft.
Elizabeth Hubbell
I quote Robert Merrill:
FIN-AL-MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN-TEEEEEE
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
Vocedipetto
I must have missed it. Please be so kind as to simply tell me the label again.
Thanks.
Steven
daniel f. tritter
Terrymelin wrote:
i just re-read the response and still haven't heard the "better sound"
recordings identified. thanks for your usual obfuscatory answer, ellsworth.
dft
daniel f. tritter
Terrymelin wrote:
ah, "i guess." that's nailing it down, ellsworth.
dft
Elizabeth Hubbell
Probably the real reason why the discussion tailed off on distractions
Elizabeth Hubbell
Probably the real reason why the discussion tailed off on distractions
Vocedipetto
>and is now obviously out of print.
Thanks for responding, even tho it appears you didn't have the info we had
hoped.
If it is indeed out of print I suppose that makes Op d'Oro's product all the
more invaluable at this point.
Best,
steven
Terrymelin
>
>FIN-AL-MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN-TEEEEEE
I guess your ethics are so low that it matters not to you that you purchase
from a merchant who steals from another, legitmate entity.
That's really a shame. And in the end all collector's will suffer because
legitimate labels will no longer have an incentive to do the hard work and find
these items for all of us if some of you are just going to buy the cheaper,
stolen item.
That's really pathetic.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>hoped.
>If it is indeed out of print I suppose that makes Op d'Oro's product all the
>more invaluable at this point.
>Best,
>steven
>
Yes, but it doesn't make it any more right or legal what Opera d'Oro does and
you shouldn't reward them by buying their stolen product.
Terry Ellsworth
Premiereopera
>
>FIN-AL-MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN-TEEEEEE
>
>Geoffrey Riggs
Yes, wasn't that one of the greatest sounds ever heard???
Great memories, Gioffrey.
best,
Ed
Terrymelin
>wonder, if RCA was the source, how they could get the pitch wrong. Do
>machines
>that copy compact discs even have the capability of transcription at the
>wrong
>pitch? There can be pitch problems with tape, but if you take the RCA
>release
>of a Salome recording and copy it with your CD copier, how can you screw up
>the
>pitch? Surely the pirate doesn't make a tape of the original CD and then
>release CD's based on the tape.
>
>-david gable
>
>
Well, it has been commented on here and on rec.music.classical.recordings. They
also did the same thing with a Frau Ohne Schatten from the 1960s.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
Jeez. How many times are you going to post this claptrap -- this is the fifth
time already!
Terry Ellsworth
Commspkmn
<< I purchased a recording of a performance of
Donizetti's Marino Faliero from one of these two gentlemen, and I am grateful
that he was able to supply it. Later I discovered that what I received was
simply a copy of a previous release of the same performance on another label
specializing in live material. >>
Of course, David this happens all the time. How many labels have issued the
1951 Mexico City Aida, for example? Do we honestly believe that each of these
companies has its own, individual, pristine recording of that performance?
Please understand, I'm not defending Opera d'Oro's practices. But to suggest
that they are the only one engaging in this practice of copying is disingenuous
at best.
Ken
Commspkmn
<< Sorry, Ken, I wasn't referring to you. I should have been clearer.
Terry Ellsworth
>>
Thanks, Terry. But there is certainly no need to apologize, even if you were
referring to me.
Best,
Ken
Vocedipetto
>you shouldn't reward them by buying their stolen product.
That wasn't the info sought, but thanks for weighing in.
Steven
Elizabeth Hubbell
Look, I'm the first one to warn someone off a sad ripoff on Opera d'Oro
of the suberb Vinay/Moedl/Karajan Tristan because of the inexcusable
distortion on Moedl's surprisingly secure top notes that afternoon.
Both the Myto and the Melodram are considerably better.
I'm the first one to warn someone eying the 1964
Nilsson/Corelli/Gavazzeni Turandot on Opera d'Oro that, despite its good
fidelity, the entire transfer runs a bit sharp and should be avoided.
I'm the first one to warn someone interested in the
Caballe/Vickers/Patane Norma on Opera d'Oro that it's unaccountably
missing the sequence of Caballe standing over Norma's sleeping children,
poised to slay them. This despite the entire sequence being there
intact on the video.
And so on.
But I thought G/P/Dave had started a potentially interesting discussion
on the way the role of Don Carlo and Franco Corelli just clicked. It
was one of those happy cases where an opera and an artist were a perfect
match. Both the '66 and the '70 Don Carlos happen to be fascinating
documents of a performer with maginficent gifts heard in his element.
Instead of pointing straightforwardly to the Myto and the Rodolphe
pressings of the '70 as probably preferable to the Opera d'Oro, which
was probably a compromised copy of one of the other two, and then moving
on to discuss the performance itself based on a possibly superior
pressing that you yourself may have (incidentally, which pressing do you
have, or do you have it on LP?), all you could do instead was make a
non-constructive, uninformative remark on one presumably lousy pressing,
leaving everyone else to pick up the bait and get completely distracted
from G/Dave's worthwhile query.
I realize you're hardly the worst offender here -- Lord knows, I've
blown my cool countless times on this forum myself, and I'm not proud of
that -- but your posting managed to derail the entire drift of what
could have been an instructive exchange on what made Corelli delve so
deeply and thoughtfully into this role, what aspects of the role itself
make it particularly tantalizing but elusive for a number of other
interpreters, what constitutes a truly effective role in a Verdi opera
generally, and so on. The potential for this and more was there.
Whether intentionally or not, you destroyed that.
I admit, in posting my other screed four or five times here, I have
plainly slipped a gasket. I was irrational. O.K.? It's simple. I got
really pissed.
Exhausted,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
Vocedipetto
>plainly slipped a gasket. I was irrational. O.K.? It's simple. I got
>really pissed.
>
>Exhausted,
>
>Geoffrey Riggs
I thought it was funny, and we all got the message, I am sure!
You are a good man, Geoffrey Riggs.
best,
Steven
susurrus
"skip" <skip@nyc께.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KBuwa.27771$h42....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Oh Anne of Green Gables, put a sock in it already.................
> If you don't like what Rosen and Handelman are doing, fuck off and don't
buy
> anything...........
>
Forceful post, Skip. We'll see just how forceful you are when you're clapped
into Tepper's hell hole.
susurrus
Elizabeth Hubbell
I appreciate the thought. But I'm not a paragon, for the simple reason
that I happen to have a loooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuusy temper. That's
tripped me up more times than I can recall.
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
susurrus
"daniel f. tritter" <dtri...@bway.net> wrote ,
If you don't want me to remind the world that you are Jacqueline Laroche you
oughtn't to be calling me a drag queen (not that there is anything wrong
with that). Are you able to grasp that simple concept?
susurrus
>
daniel f. tritter
susurrus wrote:
what;'s that again, onan?
oh well, my daddy always told me whatever i do, be good at it.
sssssusssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrussssssssss is obviously good at grasping *
anything but a concept.
dft
* for those who are unenlightened and do not wish to be in the same latrine hole
of stupidity as sssssssusssssssssurrrrrrrrrrussssssssss, he, son of bollman,
grand duke of imbecility, noted that one day, i posted from the computer of a
friend of mine named jacqueline laroche [a couple of people here have actually
met mme. laroche and can confirm this], and rmo naturally picked up her name.
ssssssssussssssssssurrrrrrrrrrusssssssss, and all the litle bollman playground
kiddies noticed that and thought it would [teeheehee, as we used to say at
recess] be awfully cutesypoo to tease danny about his little girl's
name.naturally this caused all kinds of giggling in th girls room]. golly gee,
that fellow sssssurrrrrrrssssssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrrrussssssss has a
thighslapper of a sense of humor, doesn't he?! wonder what that
ssssstuttttttttttttterrrrrrer will say nnnnnnnnnext. he's a caution, eh,
neighbors? wonder whether he'll get promoted next year to second grade
........... wonder what his report card will say about his deportment. how about
the time they made him eat lunch in the principal's office? never mind. he's the
spitball champeen of the first grade.
dft
Leonard Tillman
> you are when you're clapped into Tepper's
> hell hole.
>susurrus
"Tepper's", yes, - but "hell hole"? Nothing of the kind.
Il Teppera's choices happen to be some of the very best folks I know
"down" here.
LT
-- One proud denizen, among many others.
donpaolo
:>)
DonP.
"Elizabeth Hubbell" <elizabet...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3EC2993D...@verizon.net...
susurrus
"daniel f. tritter" <dtri...@bway.net> wrote in message
news:3EC2A537...@bway.net...
Hold on thar, Dan. In the interest of truth let the record show that you
posted as
Jacqueline on more than one occasion, not just "one day", as you
disingenuously put it.
And you have offered this 'explanation' several times. Too many times,
probably. If
you want my advice, stop explaining. It just makes you look more and more
guilty.
As I suggested previously, If you quit calling people drag queen there's a
better than even
chance that Jacqueline can stay in the closet.
> ssssssssussssssssssurrrrrrrrrrusssssssss, and all the litle bollman
playground
> kiddies noticed that and thought it would [teeheehee, as we used to say at
> recess] be awfully cutesypoo to tease danny about his little girl's
> name. >
Of course. If you are so inept as to deliver your own head on a silver
platter don't think
I won't pull your ears.
<naturally this caused all kinds of giggling in th girls room]. >
If you say so. I'd be amazed if it didn't.
> golly gee, that fellow sssssurrrrrrrssssssssssssssssurrrrrrrrrrrrussssssss
has a
> thighslapper of a sense of humor, doesn't he?! >
He certainly does.
< wonder what that ssssstuttttttttttttterrrrrrer will say nnnnnnnnnext. >
That'll depend on how you step on your own crank next time.
> he's a caution, eh, neighbors? wonder whether he'll get promoted next
year to second grade
> ........... wonder what his report card will say about his deportment. how
about
> the time they made him eat lunch in the principal's office? never mind.
he's the
> spitball champeen of the first grade. >
Stop embarrassing yourself and ponder whether you can face a life sentence
in Tepper's killfile. Sobering thought, isn't it?
susurrus