What exactely is "Eurotrash" ?
Yorick Meefout
Reading this group for some weeks now, I've come across the term "Eurotrash"
a couple of times.
Being European, I ofcourse wonder what is meant by this.
(I hope I'm not touching any sensitive spots on either Americans or
Europeans.)
Regards,
Yorick Meefout.
MQ Writer
>a couple of times.
>Being European, I ofcourse wonder what is meant by this.
It's our revenge for "The Ugly American."
Jimmy
And yet again, our American friends show their tolerance for other cultures
and races, in keeping with their long history....
G Riggs
production stemming mostly from Europe. It has been used to denote certain
types of stagings that seem calculated more to shock than to illumine the
work being staged.
Naturally, one man's shock is another man's illumine. Hence, the term
itself is somewhat subjective, IMO.
Although there have been a small number of avant-garde productions that have
reaped general approval (lest we forget, Wieland Wagner's acclaimed Parsifal
at Neu Bayreuth was generally thought both avant-garde and illuminating)
versus a certain number of avant-garde productions generally condemned as
puerile and beside the point, let alone sophomorically indulgent, there is
also a grey area where certain productions have seemed partly illuminating
and partly childish. It is this grey area where the term "Eurotrash"
(negatively) reflects personal, subjective assessment of the individual
artistic perception behind a staging.
This is a grossly oversimplified precis of the connotations of the term.
Hopefully, others here will step in and provide further amplification.
Cordially,
Geoffrey Riggs
--
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"Yorick Meefout" <yor...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:98509527...@sleeper.capgemini.nl...
Yorick Meefout
Please, I don't want to turn this into Amercans are better than Europeans,
because Europeans are better than Americans discussion. I don't really care
for that.
I still wonder what is meant by eurotrash. I suppose it has to do with the
way productions are staged / cast / directed in Europe?
Thanks, and please keep it on topic. We're only a 6 hour flight apart from
each other.
Yorick.
"Jimmy" <so...@no.com> wrote in message
news:7aKt6.89740$p66.25...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Terrymelin
productions of "Rigoletto" and "The Flying Dutchman." As they say, a picture is
worth a thousand words. Here we have the very definition of "eurotrash."
Terry Ellsworth
Romain
"Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010320110628...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
Pardon? Wouldn't that be chicagotrash?
R.
Charlie Hoyt
-- Charlie Hoyt
ch...@hotmail.com
http://www.mp3.com/chuckhoyt
NBPalmer1
>worth a thousand words. Here we have the very definition of "eurotrash."
Entirely disagree! Production photographs are but a minor substitute for
experiencing the drama itself. So I never ever draw conclusions from these,
but wait to experience the production in a live theatre. Even videos are a pale
reflection of the real thing!
Cheers NICK/London
S. Robert Gordon
>Reading this group for some weeks now, I've come across the term "Eurotrash"
>a couple of times. Being European, I of course wonder what is meant by this.
As far as I know, this term was coined by Arlene Croce when she was dance
critic for the New Yorker (maybe 10 years ago). She used it to refer to
certain kinds of "dance theater" in Europe (Maurice Bejart, Rudy van Danzig,
Maguy Marin, Pina Bausch, etc.), which she regarded as using spectacle and
shock to make up for a lack of proper dancing. And it's true that in
America and Britain, where concert dance is derived from Balanchine, Martha
Graham, and Ashton, European choreography has looked pretty awful for quite
a while. A large gap has definitely developed between European and
American/British dance, with one oriented toward theme and staging and the
other toward movement and expression. In this sense, Anglo-American dance
is more classical.
On this newsgroup, people use "Eurotrash" to refer to opera staging that is
similar to the crass dance spectacles attacked by Arlene Croce. Since opera
and dance companies in Europe are often co-residents of state theaters (the
Paris Opera Ballet, the Lyon Opera Ballet, the Mariinsky Theater opera and
ballet), there is lots of cross-fertilization between opera and dance. This
is less true in America.
-- Rob Gordon
M. Slater
>I still wonder what is meant by eurotrash. I suppose it has to do with the
>way productions are staged / cast / directed in Europe?
This year's best example seems to be the Ballo in Maschera produced in
Barcelona. "Eurotrash" is not just found in Europe. To most of us it denotes
productions which negate the composer's intentions with high concept; that does
nothing to illuminate or make the opera more relevant.
Mark
Skip
"Charlie Hoyt" <choyt@-nospam-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B6DCF104.2C04%choyt@-nospam-hotmail.com...
Matthew B. Tepper
nospam-hotmail.com>:
>One word: FALCO
Died Feb 6, 1998 in a jeep crash. Mozart's operas will still be played
long after this guy's bones are dust.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Hoof-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
A Tsar Is Born
>
> Reading this group for some weeks now, I've come across the term
"Eurotrash"
> a couple of times.
> Being European, I ofcourse wonder what is meant by this.
>
> (I hope I'm not touching any sensitive spots on either Americans or
> Europeans.)
Undoubtedly you are, but it's a perfectly legitimate enquiry for a' that.
Should get oodles of good thread going and several really witty
denunciations (from both sides of the pond).
What we New Yorkers tend to mean by it, because we get a lot of visiting
companies (Pina Bausch et al.) and because we're close enough to be able to
hop over and see the stuff for ourselves, is the sort of production where
the director has a "concept" that is more important to him or her than the
original opera, indeed frequently has nothing to do with the original opera.
That Liceu Ballo staged by a director in, I gather, a men's lavatory
adjacent to a whorehouse, from which he wished to discard the love duet
because it did not fit his concept of the work as being a commentary on the
corruptions of power (which is not what Verdi wrote it about), is typical.
There have been so many cliches in recent years, often (but not always) the
work of European directors and companies: setting an opera ANYWHERE or ANY
TIME as long as it's not where and when the librettist set it, having the
singers engage in outrageous if not pornographic behaviors that have nothing
to do with what they are singing and enhance the meaning of the piece not a
whit, that a word for the attitude seemed to be necessary, and so
"Eurotrash" was coined.
This is not to say that a lot of the performances that fit these criteria
have not been extraordinary, exciting, fascinating, sometimes even musical.
But far too much of the time, the distortions only draw attention to the
director, and that seems to be the only motive for them. (Viz. the Zambello
Lucia, the Vick Trovatore, the Sellars Don Giovanni.) Granted that there is
more than one way of staging classics, and that the modern audience has very
different expectations from the audience for which these works were
written -- films have made us insist on a certain level of dramatic
immediacy, for instance -- most people who go to the opera have some
knowledge of the work being given and would like to hear its musical and
dramatic values paid attention to. I rather enjoyed the Chereau Ring and the
Berlin Hugeonots set on Kristallnacht and the Cosi fan tutte in a diner, but
I completely missed the point of a Butterfly set in the consulate when the
entire libretto places it in Butterfly's hilltop home, and Vick's Trovatore
was just one stupid idea that undercut the singers after another --
obviously the world-famous director was the only person in the theater who
did NOT understand the opera, and his attempts to do so brought on a furious
burst of wrath for which he now blames the audience. As for the Liceu
Ballo -- the director appears to be working for the Basque terrorists, and I
hope someone takes him out.
A great deal of what we call Eurotrash seems to have only two purposes: to
make a publicity explosion, enhancing the director's career, at the expense
of a beloved work of art, and to express the frustration of modern Europeans
at being surrounded by so much ancestral High Culture to which their efforts
can never measure up. So they trash it instead. There was a character in one
of W.H. Auden's plays, Destructive Desmond, a nightclub performer, whose act
consisted of torching masterpieces of painting or ancient manuscripts, for
the titillation of his jaded audience. That seems to be the aim of many
Eurotrash directors from several continents.
Take Pina Bausch's Bluebeard's Castle -- please! The music was a recording
on a tape deck in the middle of the stage. Bausch's dancers acted this out,
one of them dashing constantly over to the tape deck to rewind the tape, so
that a phrase would be played twenty times in a row before moving to the
next. The opera was not presented, it was not illustrated, it was not
enhanced -- the experience of it was simply ruined, as a six-month old child
might ruin an opera by screaming and throwing up in the middle of a
performance. After twenty minutes of this I wanted to scream, "If you hate
European culture so much, Pina, STOP STAGING IT." She didn't stop, so I
walked out. (My date had already left.)
That's what we mean by Eurotrash.
In Europe, where so many opera houses have been expressions of civic pride
for so long, what they present is often a victim of current political
pretensions, which are anything but artisitc. Americans envy European
houses, supported so well by the local governments, but we forget that one
pays for this.
Hans Lick
atsar...@hotmail.com
Valfer
bridge and shoot drugs together in the second act. Violetta finally dies of
an overdose.
Eurotrash is a "Damnation de Faust" where nazi soldiers massacre a band of
jews during the Hungarian March, Mephisto carries a whip and is dressed in
leather, Margherite is a cabaret stripper, and Faust wears a straight
jacket in the final scene.
Eurotrash is a "Tosca" where Scarpia is a south-american dictator,
Cavaradossi is a Che Guevara look-alike, and Tosca is dressed in Andean
folk-dress.
Eurotrash is an "Elektra" set in Nazi-occupied Greece. I'll spare you the
gory details.
Need more examples? Of course, American trash is no better, just less
widespread.
Valfer
"MQ Writer" <mqwr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010320092143...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
Victor Martell
Before Biexto's (sp ?) Ballo (Liceu), I heard the term applied mainly to
*persons*.... I'm guessing that people in this group started applying the
term to those awful productions because they fit the image... A previous
poster defined Eurotrash as "Falco", the late pop singer.... What are the
characteristics of an "Eurotrash" person? Is it somehow analogous to "white
trash" ?
Thanks
V
A Tsar Is Born <ench...@herodotus.com> wrote in message
news:3ab7a...@news.starnetinc.com...
Tom Silverwood
San Francisco, to be produced at LOC next year, sadly fits the definition of
"Eurotrash" to a tee.
Tom
Terrymelin <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010320110628...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
mauriz
first to describe dance theater in Europe.
You're right about opera and dance companies' co-residence in many
(most) European theatres, but I'm afraid this means much less
cross-fertilisation than you assume. At least in Germany, Switzerland
and Austria opera houses don't really know how to take advantage of this
coexistence: most ballet companies completely live in the shadows with a
few interludes in opera performances and at most one new
(dance)production a season, and the situation became even worse during
the last years with the cutback of their budgets. Some theatres try to
get rid of their ballet companies completely in order to save the money
for opera, others are looking for alternatives (Berlin might find a way
with a union of the ballet companies of all three opera houses).
I see staged opera today much more influenced by theatre and its
development since the 60s - or actually since the early 30s, when
directing opera occasionally started to deal with the social context of
this "bourgeois" art form, maybe the most important root for what
happened on opera stage in the former DDR, thus somehow (and not always
directly) Berghaus, Konwitschny, Mielitz, Marthaler, Pöppelreiter
carrying on where Reinhardt or Felsenstein left off.
On the other hand you'll find that most directors blamed for their
concepts on opera stage are (or would be) equally blamed for the same on
theatre stage - "Regietheater" in German is meanwhile maybe as
depreciatory used as "Eurotrash" here, referring to a production mainly
characterised by the director's concept, and not by the actors' or
singers' performances, though of course the first must not necessarily
neglect or suppress or detract from the latter. And it seems to me that
for the last 30 years or so particularly directors originally or mainly
working for theatre caused protest in opera houses (for Germany and
Austria Bondy, Kirchner, Neuenfels, Flimm come to my mind immediately).
Personally I appreciate this closer connection to theatre and find most
of these attempts necessary to keep opera (and theatre) alive and have
no problem to accept nine failures for one success: as long as I have
the impression that someone actually has thought out what she/he is
doing I prefer lively theatre put into action to any decoration of a
corpse.
Regards, Stephan (actually not sure at all if my English is not too
restricted to express what I wanted to say - ok, I've tried ...)
S. Robert Gordon schrieb in Nachricht
<9984lb$1...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>...
Matthew B. Tepper
>"Eurotrash" is a "Traviata" where Violetta and Alfredo share a hut under
>a bridge and shoot drugs together in the second act. Violetta finally
>dies of an overdose.
>
>Eurotrash is a "Damnation de Faust" where nazi soldiers massacre a band
>of jews during the Hungarian March, Mephisto carries a whip and is
>dressed in leather, Margherite is a cabaret stripper, and Faust wears a
>straight jacket in the final scene.
>
>Eurotrash is a "Tosca" where Scarpia is a south-american dictator,
>Cavaradossi is a Che Guevara look-alike, and Tosca is dressed in Andean
>folk-dress.
>
>Eurotrash is an "Elektra" set in Nazi-occupied Greece. I'll spare you
>the gory details.
>
>Need more examples? Of course, American trash is no better, just less
>widespread.
>
>Valfer
I had an S.O. years ago, a bigger opera nut than myself, who frequently
reminded me about a production of Norma in which the Druids were armed with
machine guns. But I eventually figured out that the main reason she liked
to mention it was to show-off her properly-flipped "r" in "Norma."
mauriz
totally agree with as (mostly) producers of trash, Euro or wherever from
...
BUT Pina Bausch: the production you've quoted is NOT at all a production
of Bartok's opera, it's titled "Blaubart - beim Anhören einer
Tonbandaufnahme von Bela Bartoks Oper Herzog Blaubarts Burg" (1977) and
that's exactly what it is: "Bluebeard - while listening to a tape of
Bela Bartok's opera Duke Bluebeard' Castle".
Knowing that she's a choreographer one shouldn't be surprised to find
oneself watching a dance(theatre)performance based on themes and music
from an opera ... reading the title carefully and knowing a bit about
her (most impressive) work it's totally clear that she uses Bartok's
music and tale for an associative "essay" on how men and women and men
and men and women and - well, and so on - treat each other ... and I
hope for you, that your date didn't leave because of a sudden
enlightenment! :-)
Now - her work in Aix-en-Provence in 1998 THAT was Bartok's opera
(conducted by Boulez) and it actually caused quite a provocation ... and
I would take some English lessons just to discuss this one with you!
Best regards, Stephan
A Tsar Is Born schrieb in Nachricht <3ab7a...@news.starnetinc.com>...
GRNDPADAVE
quasi-classical music that -- no insult intended -- recalls the work of Yanni.
There is also a German orchestra that plays pop music with schmaltzy
orchestrations. It is akin to playing Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance in a waltz
rhythm with dancing violinists decorating the main theme.
There is something evidently that Europeans find attractive in catchy tunes
played as though they were orchestrated by Brahms or Tchaikovsky.
The American taste tends to favor "down home" Cajun or Blue Grass offerings,
spiced by banjos and kazoos.
Now, why this isn't called "Ameri-trash" I don't know.
Nothing to sneer at Eurotrash is "entataynmunt" pretending to be "ahrt".
==G/P Dave
Romain
"Victor Martell" wrote,
> Before Biexto's (sp ?) Ballo (Liceu), I heard the term applied mainly to
> *persons*.... I'm guessing that people in this group started applying the
> term to those awful productions because they fit the image... A previous
> poster defined Eurotrash as "Falco", the late pop singer.... What are the
> characteristics of an "Eurotrash" person? Is it somehow analogous to
"white
> trash" ?>
From alt.culture.com:
Epithet originally applied to rich foreigners, usually from old families,
living in the United States. Eurotrash mascot Taki Theodoracopulos, who
helped disseminate the term in society columns for Vanity Fair and the
British Spectator, claimed in a 1984 interview to have heard "Eurotrash"
first applied in 1980 to "very rich Milanese who came here and used up
everyone's drugs." The Reagan era smiled on such Euro immigrants, who, along
with their virtually indistinguishable Middle Eastern and South American
friends (schooled in Switzerland and outfitted in Paris), injected the New
York club and social scene with plenty of fusty titles, bon chic bon genre
sartorial style (Gucci loafers, Hermes scarves, signet rings), and
ostentatious cheek-, hand-, and ciao-kissing. During the leveling '90s,
"Eurotrash" in popular parlance came to refer to just about anyone who has
an accent, sports a deep tan (acquired by birth or otherwise), haunts chichi
nightspots, and wears clothing too tight, tailored, or precious to appear
"American" (or heterosexual, thus the homophobic variation, "Eurofag").
Romain the Society Inspector
Victor Martell
V
Romain <jeanchr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:998m25$r03$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Candide
"Yorick Meefout" <yor...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:98509527...@sleeper.capgemini.nl...
======================
Can't define "Euro-Trash" but I know it when I see it.
Candide
Richard Loeb
people on this board who had only heard about or seen photos of a
production. Hardly a substitute for the real thing.
NBPalmer1 <nbpa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010320123730...@ng-mc1.aol.com...
NBPalmer1
I appreciate your thoughtful response of today. I would make just one point,
that the roots really lie in the Kroll Oper, Berlin in the late 1920's under
Otto Klemperer.
Regards NICK/London
A Tsar Is Born
"Yorick Meefout" <yor...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:98509527...@sleeper.capgemini.nl...
> Hi,
>
> Reading this group for some weeks now, I've come across the term
"Eurotrash"
> a couple of times.
> Being European, I ofcourse wonder what is meant by this.
>
> (I hope I'm not touching any sensitive spots on either Americans or
> Europeans.)
Undoubtedly you are, but it's a perfectly legitimate enquiry for a' that.
james jorden
>After twenty minutes of this I wanted to scream, "If you hate
>European culture so much, Pina, STOP STAGING IT." She didn't stop, so I
>walked out. (My date had already left.)
Eurotrash creates a sort of artistic Catch 22:
If you refuse to see the production, then you're closed-minded
If you walk out of the production, then you can't judge the "whole"
If you stay until the end and boo, then you are an ultraconservative
philistine, and vandal to boot
And if you comment on the production the next day, you will be upbraided in
the Sunday TIMES as an ignorant clod who doesn't understand that the only
possible way to present opera today is through irony (since, after all, the
works themselves have finally after a century or two been demonstrated to be
artistically invalid "for modern audiences")
I wish more people would stand up and scream during this sort of
performance; the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that.
By the way, has anyone noticed that Graham Vick's name has been removed from
the posters for the Met's TROVATORE?
jj
mauriz
NBPalmer1 schrieb in Nachricht
<20010320185812...@ng-cq1.aol.com>...
>I would make just one point,
>that the roots really lie in the Kroll Oper, Berlin in the late 1920's
under
>Otto Klemperer.
>
>Regards NICK/London
Of course you are right about the significant importance of the Kroll
Oper which I should have mentioned, but I frankly admit that I was not
aware of Klemperer's role there - would be glad to hear more about it.
Regards,
Stephan
Enrique Eskenazi
<jjo...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>Eurotrash creates a sort of artistic Catch 22:
>
>If you refuse to see the production, then you're closed-minded
>
>If you walk out of the production, then you can't judge the "whole"
>
>If you stay until the end and boo, then you are an ultraconservative
>philistine, and vandal to boot
>
>And if you comment on the production the next day, you will be upbraided in
>the Sunday TIMES as an ignorant clod who doesn't understand that the only
>possible way to present opera today is through irony (since, after all, the
>works themselves have finally after a century or two been demonstrated to
be
>artistically invalid "for modern audiences")
>
>I wish more people would stand up and scream during this sort of
>performance; the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that.
This is a most lucid and realistic description of the situation- If you
change 'Sunday TIMES' by the name of any European journal, you'll get the
landscape over here... There seems to be a sort of complot amongst
producers, directors (the main responsibile for Eurotrash), journalists,
critics, and a snob or complacient audience that believe that opera should
be 'renewed', 're-interpreted', 'updated'. Anyone objecting such treatment
is ipso facto condemned as retrograde, conservative, bigotted, troublemaker,
etc. etc.
Regards
---
Enrique
eske...@teleline.es
Mark D. Lew
> "Eurotrash" is a "Traviata" where Violetta and Alfredo share a hut under a
> bridge and shoot drugs together in the second act. Violetta finally dies of
> an overdose.
>
> Eurotrash is a "Damnation de Faust" where nazi soldiers massacre a band of
> jews during the Hungarian March, Mephisto carries a whip and is dressed in
> leather, Margherite is a cabaret stripper, and Faust wears a straight
> jacket in the final scene.
>
> Eurotrash is a "Tosca" where Scarpia is a south-american dictator,
> Cavaradossi is a Che Guevara look-alike, and Tosca is dressed in Andean
> folk-dress.
>
> Eurotrash is an "Elektra" set in Nazi-occupied Greece. I'll spare you the
> gory details.
Of these four, the third (Tosca) doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. The
essence of the setting of Puccini's opera is not specifically the
short-lived pro-Napoleonic republic in Rome, but rather the generic idea of
a repressive government and a rebellion in the name of political freedom.
Changing the time and place requires some simple alterations to a few lines
("tremava tutta Roma", etc), and removes the charming authenticity of the
bells at the top of the third act. But so long as the more fundamental
political situation is maintained, changing a few proper names does little
harm, and most listeners outside of Italy don't recognize the sound of
Rome's actual bells anyway.
The important part of the setting is the political relationships between
the rebel ex-government, Scarpia's counter-revolutionary government, and
the church. If the opera is presented before an audience which can more
readily relate to a South American style dictatorship than to Napoleonic
Rome (and I'd have to say that that would include pretty much any audience
in the United States, to say nothing of Latin America), then changing the
setting may well help make the opera more meaningful to many audience
members.
I'm not saying this particular staging is necessarily a great idea; I'm
just saying that it's plausible. I think it's worth making the distinction
between the sort of "eurotrash" which is deliberately pornographic or which
blatantly violates the central themes of the original, and the sort of
production which uses an alternate setting in an effort to better
communicate the opera as it was intended.
mdl
Lis K. Froding
"Yorick Meefout" <yor...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Reading this group for some weeks now, I've come across the term "Eurotrash"
>a couple of times.
>Being European, I ofcourse wonder what is meant by this.
>
>(I hope I'm not touching any sensitive spots on either Americans or
>Europeans.)
>
>Regards,
>
>Yorick Meefout.
>
>
It's a term coined by American opera "lovers" who think that anything
that's performed in any other way than the way "it's supposed to be done"
(whatever they think that means, usually the way it's been done a hundred
times before), is somehow wrong and to be despised.
For various reasons, European opera companies tend to be more innovative
in their productions than American companies, so those innovative
productions often get dismissed by American traditionalists as "Eurotrash".
Notice I say "tend to", since obviously it doesn't always apply.
Donning my flame proof suit,
Lis
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
Riggs stated it. The avant garde sort of staging originated
in Europe because many Europeans were in the enviable
position of having seen "traditional" productions often
enought to have become a bit jaded with them. It certainly
isn't LIMITED to Europe, and many of the worst of the genre
in the U.S. are not even the concept of European directors.
Unfortunately, the label seems to have stuck.
Yorick Meefout wrote:
>
> OK, I could figure this would happen.
>
> Please, I don't want to turn this into Amercans are better than Europeans,
> because Europeans are better than Americans discussion. I don't really care
> for that.
>
> I still wonder what is meant by eurotrash. I suppose it has to do with the
> way productions are staged / cast / directed in Europe?
>
> Thanks, and please keep it on topic. We're only a 6 hour flight apart from
> each other.
>
> Yorick.
>
> "Jimmy" <so...@no.com> wrote in message
> news:7aKt6.89740$p66.25...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > > It's our revenge for "The Ugly American."
> >
> >
> > And yet again, our American friends show their tolerance for other
> cultures
> > and races, in keeping with their long history....
> >
> >
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
LIKED was a TV broadcast of Carmen updated to 1930's Spain
and the Spanish revolution. Even that performed some rather
drastic surgery on some of the plot elements, but it was
believable, and it WORKED.
M. Slater
>
>If you refuse to see the production, then you're closed-minded
>
>If you walk out of the production, then you can't judge the "whole"
>
>If you stay until the end and boo, then you are an ultraconservative
>philistine, and vandal to boot
>
>And if you comment on the production the next day, you will be upbraided in
>the Sunday TIMES as an ignorant clod who doesn't understand that the only
>possible way to present opera today is through irony (since, after all, the
>works themselves have finally after a century or two been demonstrated to be
>artistically invalid "for modern audiences")
>
>I wish more people would stand up and scream during this sort of
>performance; the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that.
>
>By the way, has anyone noticed that Graham Vick's name has been removed from
>the posters for the Met's TROVATORE?
>
>jj
>
you were a fan and supporter of these kinds of productions.
Mark
REG
arts....I've always inferred that it reflects an American criticism of those
Europeans who have pretensions to being sophisticated (whether about the
arts, finance or any other area) or who have a veneer of culture or
sophistication, but who are really just pretentious or hyperbolic...I think
if the phrase as one which implicity condemns Americans as well as
Europeans, that is to say that Eurotrash can't exist without Americans who
are gulled into thinking that the veneer of culture or sophistication is the
"real thing".
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque) <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3AB85736...@earthlink.net...
NBPalmer1
>Oper which I should have mentioned, but I frankly admit that I was not
>aware of Klemperer's role there - would be glad to hear more about it.
>
He was Music Director and had major responsibility for repertory and
productions.
Regards NICK/London
Cub driver
Great thread. Thanks, everybody.
Two elements of eurotrash productions that haven't been mentioned: a)
they're often done on the cheap and b) they often display a contempt
for the audience.
Sellars's Don Giovanni was mentioned. Yet of his trio of Modern
'Merican Mozart productions, Sellars's Figaro remains one of my
favorite tapes. I don't know what distinguishes the Figaro from the
other two, but something does, and it's a wonderful thing to have
around for a rainy night in November (or March).
The Met Cenerentola came perilously close to eurotrash (squeezing the
set into a box so as not to have to cope with the rest of the stage)
but was redeemed by its singers, I thought.
I gave the Met Trovatore a miss, though I very much want to see this
opera on that stage, precisely because I feared it would be
eurotrashy.
There's much to be said for familiarity. I started late, and I see
maybe half a dozen operas a year, of which only half are in
first-class houses, so I don't have much patience for non-traditional
productions. (I did like the NYCO AIDS Traviata of a few years ago.) I
live about 300 miles from Lincoln Center, and there is no first-class
opera in Boston, so what am I to do? In Europe, you;'d probably be
living on the plain in Spain to be 300 miles from the nearest good
opera house. A neighbor, who has been a Met subscriber for many years,
once said: "How many Traviatas can you see?" I have certainly not yet
met my quota of Traviatas, but I can see his point. But he seeks new
experiences in new operas, not in fantastic productions of familiar
ones. Happily, the Met seems to produce these in sufficient quantity
for his needs.
The word "jaded" came into the discussion. I thought of Carbaret. Now
there was a eurotrashy era: Berlin in the 1920s.
(By the way, it wasn't the Nazis who occupied Greece, but the German
army. If Austria's greatest national accomplishment was to convince
the world that Hitler was a German, Germany's greatest accomplishment
has been to convince the world that WWII was fought by the Nazis.)
all the best - Dan Ford (email: use...@danford.net)
Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault & the American Volunteer Group
http://www.danford.net/book.htm
"War history as it should be written." (The Hook)
Ivan Lalis
for their own garbage, but using Eurotrash is more comfortable - it's
suggesting something from the outside we don't like, although it's 100% home
made.
I think one ought to be very careful with this "eurotrash" label, because
some people tend to stick it on everything they don't like it or somehow does
not fit into their view of the opera.
Ivan
Romain wrote:
> "Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010320110628...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
> > Get a look at some of the photos of Lyric Opera of Chicago's latest
> > productions of "Rigoletto" and "The Flying Dutchman." As they say, a
> picture is
> > worth a thousand words. Here we have the very definition of "eurotrash."
> >
>
> Pardon? Wouldn't that be chicagotrash?
>
> R.
james jorden
>What a thoughtful post Mr. Jorden. I had thought from your past writings
that
>you were a fan and supporter of these kinds of productions.
"These kinds of productions." Wonderful sort of specificity to your
thinking, Slater.
The only way to appreciate opera is on a case-by-case basis. There is no
"these kinds" before the fact.
jj
benjo maso
"Cub driver" <lo...@my.sig.file> schreef in bericht
news:k72hbtsbo393rlaqj...@4ax.com...
>
> Great thread. Thanks, everybody.
>
> Two elements of eurotrash productions that haven't been mentioned: a)
> they're often done on the cheap and b) they often display a contempt
> for the audience.
Another element which wasn't mentioned is that this new way of producing is
a great succes in Europe. When it was introduced, prophets of doom predicted
the end of opera, empty houses, etc. They were dead wrong. In cities as
Amsterdam, Brussels, Frankfurt and other hotbeds of the new trend it used to
be quite easy to get tickets one or two days before, but now you usually
have to make reservations one year before. This is not an optical illusion.
For instance, during the Mortier-era in Brussels, which played a pioneering
role in the development of the new trend the number of season ticketholders
rose from 4.500 to 13.500. And what's more: the audience has been
rejuvenated. The average age of subscribers of the Brussels opera dropped
within a decade from 48 to 35. The same trend in Amsterdam, be it less
spectacular.
Is this new audience already for fifteen to twenty yaers conned by some
"veneer of culture or sophistication"? Of course not. This doesn't mean
that there haven't been many ridiculous "modern" production. There have been
and I have seen some of them. Besides, if you want to criticize a trend, a
phenomenon or some thing else in a fair way, you must always take the best,
not the worst examples. I've seen many extremely poor traditional
productions as well, which, of course, doesn't mean than tradional
productions are trash. Anyhow, the best examples of the new trend are among
the best and even the most profound (yes, yes!) opera performances I've ever
seen. Morover since the introduction of the new trend the general level of
the performances has undoubtedly risen. Singers are usually acting much
better and the performances are much more a dramatic whole than before. And
concerning habits like modernizing the action, etc., etc.: once when the
shock-effect has faded away, you get used to it, being able to judge it on
its own merits.
Benjo Maso
A Tsar Is Born
"mauriz" <zepp...@telering.at> wrote in message
news:998j8s$6kc$1...@news-vie-pub-p.1012internet.at...
> With Zambello, Vick and Sellars you've mentioned three names I would
> totally agree with as (mostly) producers of trash, Euro or wherever from
Actually, I enjoyed the Vick Moses und Aron and Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk (and
the video of Don Carlos) and the Sellars Theodora and Cosi fan tutte (though
he really should NOT be allowed to direct videos of his own work), and even
moments of the Zambello Iphigenie en Tauride....
> BUT Pina Bausch: the production you've quoted is NOT at all a production
> of Bartok's opera, it's titled "Blaubart - beim Anhören einer
> Tonbandaufnahme von Bela Bartoks Oper Herzog Blaubarts Burg" (1977) and
> that's exactly what it is: "Bluebeard - while listening to a tape of
> Bela Bartok's opera Duke Bluebeard' Castle".
> Knowing that she's a choreographer one shouldn't be surprised to find
> oneself watching a dance(theatre)performance based on themes and music
> from an opera ... reading the title carefully and knowing a bit about
> her (most impressive) work it's totally clear that she uses Bartok's
> music and tale for an associative "essay" on how men and women and men
> and men and women and - well, and so on - treat each other ... and I
> hope for you, that your date didn't leave because of a sudden
> enlightenment! :-)
My date waited for me and we walked home. Which is to say, over the Bridge
and well into Manhattan. The energy of irritation.
Bausch's work I have enjoyed on other occasions. But not here. And for
whatever reasons, BAM did not present it under that title, but as
"Bluebeard's Castle", with no libretto available and no titles, so that if
you did not know the libretto by heart (I knew the general outlines, but not
by heart) and could not speak German, it was incomprehensible, tedious and
annoying beyond description. Why she would bring it in that form to
Brooklyn, which is not a major center of German-speaking culture, and expect
her aims to be understood is a mystery to me.
> Now - her work in Aix-en-Provence in 1998 THAT was Bartok's opera
> (conducted by Boulez) and it actually caused quite a provocation ... and
> I would take some English lessons just to discuss this one with you!
I'd be very interested to hear your views, and I've had no trouble
understanding your English so far!
Let me add:
I saw a production of Luisa Miller in Frankfurt a few years ago that might
have been called "Eurotrash", high concept, utterly weird. Not sure what era
it was set in. Some of it seemed to be taking place in Luisa's demented
mind. But the singing was clear, the relationships were clear, nothing was
vulgar just for cheap effect. Rodolfo killed Wurm by hitting him over the
head with a coke bottle. Loved it.
Saw a Coronation of Poppaea in Seattle (U of W production) ten years ago
that struck me as a model of how to do this right (wish I remembered the
director's name): It was set in Mussolini's Rome. The countertenor wore a
very sexy white uniform. Poppaea wore a black satin 30s negligee. They sang
one of their duets on classic telephones. The goat-bleat trills during the
coronation scene were the press making nasty satirical fun of the new
couple. Ottavia's Addio Roma was sung by a very elegant mezzo-soprano (she
looked like Dominique Sanda in one of those films about the 30s) holding
suitcases in either hand while grilles appeared at either side of her and
steam rose from a trap in front of her -- obviously she was by the railway
tracks. Loved it.
Saw an Orfeo in Munich in which a dying composer is hallucinating the whole
thing, his wife dying, the chorus of Furies looking at his crotch as if to
say, You only loved her because she inspired your music, and then 200 years
passed during the dance music in the last act, and a chorus and tourists
came on to celebrate the bicentennial, with velvet ropes, backpacks, guards
... hilarious.
The Flimm Fidelio at the Met sounded awful in conception but was so well
acted and sung and played that I hardly noticed till later. Hated the final
scene. But there were moments where Beethoven was presented on that stage in
a way that brought tears.
So it CAN be done sensitively. But it rarely is.
WHen Mark Morris was the resident opera regisseur in Brussels for three
years, he produced spectacles with steps, including Il Penseroso e
L'Allegro, one of the most delightful full-evening dance works (with great
singing moreover) that any American has produced in the last generation. The
Belgians never forgave him for not being Belgian and, worse, for not being
Maurice Bejart. He was run out of town.
Yes, Stephane, I'd be delighted to hear about productions you thought worked
or did not work.
Hans Lick
atsar...@hotmail.com
james jorden
>It's a term coined by American opera "lovers"
Actually I think the term was used socially some time before it was used as
a description of opera production. As I understand it, Eurotrash were
monied Europeans who took up temporary or permanent residence in New York
City beginning in the late 1960s and into the 1970s. Eurotrash tended to
dress ultra-fashionably and spend most of their time in trendy clubs,
enjoying the vitality and excitement of American life while sneering at
American culture. They were (and are) most often some sort of minor
nobility or else spoiled scions of some filthy-rich family. At times they
played at having a career in some trendy field such as magazine publishing
or art dealing. Eurotrash was identified closely with male ponytails,
Armani suits, cocaine abuse, chainsmoking and bisexuality. It is not
surprising that eventually "real" New Yorkers began to detest Eurotrashers
and their "the world is my VIP room" attitude.
So by extension, a "Eurotrash" producer is trendy, snotty, pampered and
whiny -- for example, insisting that if his TROVATORE production is a
scandalous disaster, that's the fault of Verdi, the performers and the
audience.
jj
Matthew B. Tepper
<k72hbtsbo393rlaqj...@4ax.com>:
>
>(By the way, it wasn't the Nazis who occupied Greece, but the German
>army. If Austria's greatest national accomplishment was to convince
>the world that Hitler was a German, Germany's greatest accomplishment
>has been to convince the world that WWII was fought by the Nazis.)
You've unfortunately truncated Billy Wilder's famous remark, which is that
Austria has managed to convince the world that Beethoven was an Austrian,
and Hitler was a German.
Opaffic
director) is NOT booed after an opening, they feel they have not made a mark!!!
Controversy is IN!
Matthew B. Tepper
<gk3u6.1955$6Y3.6...@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>:
>Lis K. Froding
>
>>It's a term coined by American opera "lovers"
>
>Actually I think the term was used socially some time before it was used
>as a description of opera production. As I understand it, Eurotrash were
>monied Europeans who took up temporary or permanent residence in New York
>City beginning in the late 1960s and into the 1970s. Eurotrash tended to
>dress ultra-fashionably and spend most of their time in trendy clubs,
>enjoying the vitality and excitement of American life while sneering at
>American culture. They were (and are) most often some sort of minor
>nobility or else spoiled scions of some filthy-rich family. At times they
>played at having a career in some trendy field such as magazine publishing
>or art dealing. Eurotrash was identified closely with male ponytails,
>Armani suits, cocaine abuse, chainsmoking and bisexuality. It is not
>surprising that eventually "real" New Yorkers began to detest Eurotrashers
>and their "the world is my VIP room" attitude.
They're in Los Angeles, too, but here they blend in frighteningly well with
the Hollywood crowd.
>So by extension, a "Eurotrash" producer is trendy, snotty, pampered and
>whiny -- for example, insisting that if his TROVATORE production is a
>scandalous disaster, that's the fault of Verdi, the performers and the
>audience.
>
>jj
--
benjo maso
"Opaffic" <opa...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:20010321111222...@ng-xa1.aol.com...
> A friend of mine who sings a lot in Germany told me that if the
producer(stage
> director) is NOT booed after an opening, they feel they have not made a
mark!!!
Urban legend.
Benjo Maso
Matthew B. Tepper
75468.news.dfncis.de>:
>
>"Opaffic" <opa...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
>news:20010321111222...@ng-xa1.aol.com...
>> A friend of mine who sings a lot in Germany told me that if the producer
>
>
>Urban legend.
In that case, let's put one of these directors into a microwave oven and
see what happens.
Then again, a possible solution for not making a Mark is to insist on being
paid in Euros.
tresbirri
I am enjoying this discussion very much, and have read your posts with
interest and pleasure. One small paragraph is problematic for me:
A Tsar is Born ha scritto nel messaggio <3ab8b...@news.starnetinc.com>:
>WHen Mark Morris was the resident opera regisseur in Brussels for three
>years, he produced spectacles with steps, including Il Penseroso e
>L'Allegro, one of the most delightful full-evening dance works (with great
>singing moreover) that any American has produced in the last generation. The
>Belgians never forgave him for not being Belgian and, worse, for not being
>Maurice Bejart. He was run out of town.
Mark Morris was engaged in Brussels as a choreographer, and indeed produced
many wonderful evenings of dance. I saw, and remember very well, his
choreography of the oratorio L'Allegro, il Penseroso ed il Moderato.
He had great success in Brussels -- this piece, the wonderful The Hard Nut
(The Nutcracker), Die Liebeslieder Walzer, and many other productions played
always to full and enthusiastic audiences. But these are not operas, and
he was not a "resident opera regisseur." His singers were always in the
orchestra.
As the last production of Gerard Mortier's direction, Morris was given the
Regie of Le Nozze di Figaro. This was, I believe, the first time that he
ever was a Regisseur. (As far as I know, also the last time, but I hesitate
to say this as I am not certain....)
>He was run out of town.
Oh no, this was not so.
saluti, tresbirri
Opaffic
In that case, let's put one of these directors into a microwave oven and
see what happens.
Excellent idea.....let's do it on a stage flooded with red light. Oh, and he
must be dressed in a nazi uniform and wearing a Marilyn Monroe wig.....plus the
requisite dog collar.
M. Slater
>see what happens.
>
>Excellent idea.....let's do it on a stage flooded with red light. Oh, and he
>must be dressed in a nazi uniform and wearing a Marilyn Monroe wig.....plus
the requisite dog collar.
Don't forget to park about 20 video monitors around the stage all projecting
pictures of mushroom clouds.
Mark
Matthew B. Tepper
Tom Kaufman
opera houses, and have a strong preference for those with "cast lists"--i.e.
giving dates, operas and casts. Books of this type appear all the time.
As a general rule, those originating in Italy, Spain, Portugal, South America,
and the U.S. are fine--they give singers. Some of the ones from Germany,
Austria, and other central European countries are also fine. But many others,
especially those in German, give the opera, director, conductor and scenery
designer. No singers. This tells me exactly where the emphasis is. And also
tells me everything except what I want to know.
No cheers
Don Tomasso
Tom Kaufman
URL of web site:
<A href="www.geocities.com/Vienna/8917/index.html">Tom Kaufman's site</A>
Lis K. Froding
"james jorden" <jjo...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
Okay, thanks, I stand/sit corrected on the origin of the definition.
And though I arrived in New York from Europe in the late 60s and stayed
into the 70s, I wasn't monied, only occationally snotty, pampered and
whiny, probably never trendy, and definitely not male, I'm happy to
have escaped the label.
I did, however, have a ponytail for a while. :-)))
Lis
A Tsar Is Born
"james jorden" <jjo...@bellatlantic.net> wrote
>Eurotrash was identified closely with male ponytails,
> Armani suits, cocaine abuse, chainsmoking and bisexuality.
JJ, do I detect an unattractive strain of ponytail envy in this post?
Hans Lick
A Tsar Is Born
"Ivan Lalis" <Ivan....@NOSPAM.simultan.ch> wrote in message
news:3AB89310...@NOSPAM.simultan.ch...
> Yes, I asked a few times that our American posters create their own
word
> for their own garbage, but using Eurotrash is more comfortable - it's
> suggesting something from the outside we don't like, although it's 100%
home
> made.
> I think one ought to be very careful with this "eurotrash" label,
because
> some people tend to stick it on everything they don't like it or somehow
does
> not fit into their view of the opera.
>
> Ivan
Well we use it in part because we feel European directors are using this
style, and it's corrupting the great indigenous American art form of grand
opera.
Hans Lick
Enrique Eskenazi
(Tom Kaufman) wrote:
>As a sin afterthought to this discussion, I happen to collect histories of
>opera houses, and have a strong preference for those with "cast
lists"--i.e.
>giving dates, operas and casts. Books of this type appear all the time.
>
>As a general rule, those originating in Italy, Spain, Portugal, South
America,
>and the U.S. are fine--they give singers. Some of the ones from Germany,
>Austria, and other central European countries are also fine. But many
others,
>especially those in German, give the opera, director, conductor and scenery
>designer. No singers. This tells me exactly where the emphasis is. And also
>tells me everything except what I want to know.
I am told that the trend to produce 'Eurotrash' at Liceu began when a German
artistic manager took care of Liceu, some 14 years ago...he (whose name
should remain concealed) formed the new generation of artistic managers at
this theatre, who had also had their 'training' in Belgium. How sad! Hate
this considering opera as a material for the producer and director to create
their concoctions...
Regards
---
Enrique
eske...@teleline.es
A Tsar Is Born
"tresbirri" <tres...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> As the last production of Gerard Mortier's direction, Morris was given the
> Regie of Le Nozze di Figaro. This was, I believe, the first time that he
> ever was a Regisseur. (As far as I know, also the last time, but I
hesitate
> to say this as I am not certain....)
No, he had directed a Fledermaus in Seattle before he went to Brussels.
Hans Lick
tresbirri
<20010321170226...@ng-fv1.aol.com>:
>But many others,
>especially those in German, give the opera, director, conductor and scenery
>designer. No singers. This tells me exactly where the emphasis is. And also
>tells me everything except what I want to know.
It is like so many reviews in the press: many columns of print about the
production. At the end, the names of some singers are listed, often not
even all of them. As you say --- everything except what I want to know.
saluti, tresbirri
Leonard Tillman
popular-light classics "qualify" as "Eurotrash"? Hopefully not, as I've
enjoyed them very much! ...Also, I had thought "Eurotrash" to mean some
of Donald Trump's European counterparts who have emigrated to the States
, bought up real estate, and in some cases - ruffled more than a few
"feathers"!
"Re: What exactely is "Eurotrash" ?
Group: rec.music.opera Date: Tue, Mar 20, 2001, 9:51pm (EST+5) From:
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE)
I think the term "Eurotrash" has been applied to a certain type of
quasi-classical music that -- no insult intended -- recalls the work of
Yanni. There is also a German orchestra that plays pop music with
schmaltzy orchestrations. It is akin to playing Elgar's Pomp and
Circumstance in a waltz rhythm with dancing violinists decorating the
main theme.
There is something evidently that Europeans find attractive in catchy
tunes played as though they were orchestrated by Brahms or Tchaikovsky.
The American taste tends to favor "down home" Cajun or Blue Grass
offerings, spiced by banjos and kazoos.
Now, why this isn't called "Ameri-trash" I don't know.
Nothing to sneer at Eurotrash is "entataynmunt" pretending to be "ahrt".
==G/P Dave
Best, LT
"Actions may speak louder than words---BUT are they saying what we
THINK they're saying?"
lav...@webtv.net
dispense with the written libretto in favor of the "director" or
"producer"'s ideas which are usually non-dramatic, that is there is no
attempt to create characters or dramatic situations, everything is
suggested by the concept production. For example, Tristan is light, so
he will be in white light, Isolde is night, so she will be bathed in
gloomy blue/black. Some people think they are brilliant, some people
find them annoying and distracting (me, for example). Last night's
godawful "Tristan and Isolde" from the Met is classic eurotrash, with
the singers in the famous love duet in Act 2 unfortunately forced to sit
in silhouette against a bright white background producing an image
similar to two polar bears sitting on a ice floe. But you see it is
light and dark and that is the director's concept so what is the
problem? The problem is I've seen it done better when Nilsson appeared
at the Met. These productions for me are a terrible mistake, taking
opera back into the days when singers were not trained to act, move well
on stage, or to learn how to sing in character. I hope the trend runs
its course soon. As a side note, I saw a marvelous concept production
on Broadway this week for the new Tom Stoppard play "The Invention of
Love". This is what a modern production should be IMO, one that
astonishes the eye while being faithful to the characters and libretto,
or story.
Charlie Hoyt
> Last night's
> godawful "Tristan and Isolde" from the Met is classic eurotrash, with
> the singers in the famous love duet in Act 2 unfortunately forced to sit
> in silhouette against a bright white background producing an image
> similar to two polar bears sitting on a ice floe.
I couldn't agree more! The whole production completely annoyed me, but the
music was beautiful. Oh well.. win some, loose some. Just my two cents.
-- Charlie Hoyt
ch...@hotmail.com
http://www.mp3.com/chuckhoyt
Lis K. Froding
s...@Radix.Net (Steven Chung) wrote:
>
>I can't imagine anyone's idea of sublime love actually involves staring at
>the all-too-substantial flesh of Eaglen & Heppner for 15 minutes...
>
>S.
LOL!
Lis
Ancona21
>the all-too-substantial flesh of Eaglen & Heppner for 15 minutes... >>
"O that this too too solid flesh would melt, thaw, and resolve itself into a
dew"
Ancona The Dane
Andre Edouard
Andre the Songster
Proud Clarion
particularly bizarre opera productions we've seen over the last 20 years, and
which seem to be more common on European stages than American ones. These are
productions where little or no consideration appears to be given to the
composer's intent; the entire purpose of the staging doesn't seem to go beyond
creating as much shock and controversy as possible. This is opera designed to
serve some stage director's ego -- not the music or the musicians.
My guess is that American houses' dependency on private funding, as
opposed to state support, has worked against the staging of such productions on
these shores. This dependency seems to have made American houses more
sensitive to audience reaction -- antagonize your financial base, and pay the
penalty in the form of reduced season subscriptions and fewer large
"philanthropic" donations.
Whether this is a good thing or not is certainly open to debate.
PC
NBPalmer1
>productions where little or no consideration appears to be given to the
>composer's intent; the entire purpose of the staging doesn't seem to go
>beyond
>creating as much shock and controversy as possible. This is opera designed
>to
>serve some stage director's ego -- not the music or the musicians.
This statement is, of course, a matter of opinion. From my perspective it all
began at the Kroll Oper, Berlin, under Otto Klemperer in the 1920's. The
defining objective then, as now, was and is to bring a stagework (opera or
theatre) to life, to help the audience believe in the truth and vitality of its
message and to make its meaning tell.
The challenge of any theatre for those in the business of creating an event is
how to make it matter, NOT how to preserve some notion of historical decorum.
This is the crux of controversies about operatic interpretation and the
obligation to composer and author of the text.
For my part, having been at live performances of operas and plays two or three
times each week sinnce the early 1950's, each week now I offer silent thanks
for the fact that I now am no longer confronted by the dreary, dusty, dimly
lit, risible scenic and production values which generally held sway when I
began. Extraordinarily enough my first Covent Garden "Boheme" was in sets
which had once been graced by Melba, Caruso, Scotti....!
Equally I am glad that fiction, architecture, painting - all the arts - are not
still in the aspic-like setting of values from a century ago. Arts should be
at the cutting edge, not the trailing edge, of cultural values.
My own views, of course!
NICK/London - firmly in Europe, trashy or otherwise!
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 03/24/2001 3:59 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010324165940...@ng-cq1.aol.com>
Funny, but the best productions I ever saw used scenery in stages of advanced
decrepitude.
Salmaggi performances in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. Fortune Gallo's San Carlo Opera,
Amato's wonderful scenic improvisations.
There was plenty of enthusiasm and "saul" music. "Soul" music has its
subtleties and nuances. "Saul" music is when the singer bellows.
==:>)) G/P Dave
lav...@webtv.net
do a series of skits on "Saturday Night Live" called "Sprockets!"
starring the deliciously campy 'Dieter von Dietersdorf'. It was an
hilarious take-off on performance artists, and we in america have our
share of those, let me tell you :) At the end of each show Dieter
would turn to the camera and say "And now we dance!" He ALWAYS wore
black stretch pants and top, plus the regulation pony tail and funky
eyewear. To say he was androgynous would be an understatement! Myers
was going to do a movie version but there was a problem with the script
or something. There is a page on the web if you're interested, just do
a search for Sprockets and Myers.
Matthew B. Tepper
296.iap.bryant.webtv.net>:
I wasn't aware that Dieter ever mentioned a last name. And the quote is
closer to, "Now iz ze time on Sprockets ven ve DANCE!" The "show" also
parodied American popular culture by mixing it with German Expressionist
elements, as with their presentation of a parody of "America's Favorite
Home Videos" called "Germany's Most Disturbing Home Videos."
Dieter was presented not merely as androgynous but as no-big-deal bisexual;
usually the week's host, whether male or female, would be introduced as a
former lover. Kyle MacLachlan was particularly amusing, in a leather
outfit with studded collar and officer's cap.
However, there was a previous series of SNL sketches which pretty much
mocked bad European culture: "Bad Theatre," "Bad Cinema," "Bad Opera,"
etc., and was always introduced by Dan Aykroyd as "Leonard Pinth-Garnell."
Britta
>This statement is, of course, a matter of opinion. From my perspective it all
>began at the Kroll Oper, Berlin, under Otto Klemperer in the 1920's.
I think you're probably right.
>The challenge of any theatre for those in the business of creating an event is
>how to make it matter, NOT how to preserve some notion of historical decorum.
>This is the crux of controversies about operatic interpretation and the
>obligation to composer and author of the text.
To my mind, the best statement on this subject made yet. Bravo, Nick!
Thank you very much for expressing this so clearly. We've all had
our problems with "modern" stagings, but if this idea -- "how to make it
matter" -- is the point of the whole thing, I think it's all somehow
worthwhile.
>My own views, of course!
Not only yours, only you put it better than anybody else. Thanks again.
>NICK/London - firmly in Europe, trashy or otherwise!
Again, you're not alone!
best regards, Britta/presently Berlin, but usually Munich - firmly in Europe!
Britta
>"Eurotrash" can be fun too! Mike Myers (of Austin Powers fame) used to
>do a series of skits on "Saturday Night Live" called "Sprockets!"
>starring the deliciously campy 'Dieter von Dietersdorf'. It was an
>hilarious take-off on performance artists, and we in america have our
>share of those, let me tell you :) At the end of each show Dieter
>would turn to the camera and say "And now we dance!" He ALWAYS wore
>black stretch pants and top, plus the regulation pony tail and funky
>eyewear. To say he was androgynous would be an understatement!
HUH??? Nothing is sacred. OK, I grant you it's a funny name.
Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf. 1739-1799. Composer. Best known
for his concerto for double bass and orchestra -- THE required piece for
anybody auditioning with the double bass for anything. Yes, today. Also
wrote something like 120 symphonies, and a very charming and interesting
autobiography.
"Deliciously campy" he wasn't.
Who's Mike Myers?
regards, Britta
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>Who's Mike Myers?
Comic actor, b. 1963 in Canada of Scottish descent, was a regular on
"Saturday Night Live" 1989-95, played Wayne in both of the "Wayne's World"
movies, and several roles (including the title) both of the "Austin Powers"
movies, plus various other appearances in film and on television. See:
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Myers,+Mike
Mark D. Lew
> HUH??? Nothing is sacred. OK, I grant you it's a funny name.
> Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf. 1739-1799. Composer. Best known
> for his concerto for double bass and orchestra -- THE required piece for
> anybody auditioning with the double bass for anything. Yes, today. Also
> wrote something like 120 symphonies, and a very charming and interesting
> autobiography.
>
> "Deliciously campy" he wasn't.
Now I suppose you're going to tell use Engelbert Humperdinck wasn't a
schmalty crooner.
mdl
Bill Reque
Bill Reque
SF
"Mark D. Lew" wrote:
>
> In article <OOX4QQXsAHA.199@cpmsnbbsa09>, "Valfer" <val...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > "Eurotrash" is a "Traviata" where Violetta and Alfredo share a hut under a
> > bridge and shoot drugs together in the second act. Violetta finally dies of
> > an overdose.
> >
> > Eurotrash is a "Damnation de Faust" where nazi soldiers massacre a band of
> > jews during the Hungarian March, Mephisto carries a whip and is dressed in
> > leather, Margherite is a cabaret stripper, and Faust wears a straight
> > jacket in the final scene.
> >
> > Eurotrash is a "Tosca" where Scarpia is a south-american dictator,
> > Cavaradossi is a Che Guevara look-alike, and Tosca is dressed in Andean
> > folk-dress.
> >
> > Eurotrash is an "Elektra" set in Nazi-occupied Greece. I'll spare you the
> > gory details.
>
> Of these four, the third (Tosca) doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. The
> essence of the setting of Puccini's opera is not specifically the
> short-lived pro-Napoleonic republic in Rome, but rather the generic idea of
> a repressive government and a rebellion in the name of political freedom.
>
> Changing the time and place requires some simple alterations to a few lines
> ("tremava tutta Roma", etc), and removes the charming authenticity of the
> bells at the top of the third act. But so long as the more fundamental
> political situation is maintained, changing a few proper names does little
> harm, and most listeners outside of Italy don't recognize the sound of
> Rome's actual bells anyway.
>
> The important part of the setting is the political relationships between
> the rebel ex-government, Scarpia's counter-revolutionary government, and
> the church. If the opera is presented before an audience which can more
> readily relate to a South American style dictatorship than to Napoleonic
> Rome (and I'd have to say that that would include pretty much any audience
> in the United States, to say nothing of Latin America), then changing the
> setting may well help make the opera more meaningful to many audience
> members.
>
> I'm not saying this particular staging is necessarily a great idea; I'm
> just saying that it's plausible. I think it's worth making the distinction
> between the sort of "eurotrash" which is deliberately pornographic or which
> blatantly violates the central themes of the original, and the sort of
> production which uses an alternate setting in an effort to better
> communicate the opera as it was intended.
>
> mdl
Bill Reque
of Jean-Pierre Ponnelle, for whom I now find myself remembering somewhat
nostalgically.
OTOH, I want to tell these people: "If you want to do modern opera,
write a new one". Die Soldaten comes to mind.
Bill Reque
SF
Romain wrote:
>
> "Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010320110628...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
> > Get a look at some of the photos of Lyric Opera of Chicago's latest
> > productions of "Rigoletto" and "The Flying Dutchman." As they say, a
> picture is
> > worth a thousand words. Here we have the very definition of "eurotrash."
> >
>
> Pardon? Wouldn't that be chicagotrash?
>
> R.
Bill Reque
is the focus here.
Bill Reque
SF
Skip wrote:
>
> Charlotte Church?
> "Charlie Hoyt" <choyt@-nospam-hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:B6DCF104.2C04%choyt@-nospam-hotmail.com...
> > One word: FALCO
A Tsar Is Born
"Mark D. Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Now I suppose you're going to tell use Engelbert Humperdinck wasn't a
> schmalty crooner.
God, yes he was!
I heard him once at a Berlin cabaret in 1912, singing Lehar and Eugen
d'Albert, and he was obviously drunk. Finally some hussar got up, accused
him of insulting his (the hussar's) date, and slugged him. We were all
relieved, let me tell you. The guy had no class.
Hans Lick
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 03/25/2001 1:37 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <3abe4...@news.starnetinc.com>
Who had no class -- the hussar or the hussy?
I guess all of this was hussed up.
By the way, you've had some life given your attendance at a Berlin cabaret 89
years ago.
I guess Humperdinck, when under the influence, aroused huss-tility.
==G/P Dave
Tauser
Sam Belich
Steven Chung <s...@Radix.Net> wrote in message
news:99e481$1li$1...@saltmine.radix.net...
> In article <25779-3AB...@storefull-291.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> <lav...@webtv.net> wrote:
> # Last night's
> # godawful "Tristan and Isolde" from the Met is classic eurotrash,
>
> Rubbish. It's beautiful to the eye, and without any extraneous &
> externally imposed commentary (the real hallmark of Eurotrash). The best
> new production at the Met in who knows how long (I exclude Doktor Faust,
> which debuted at Salzburg)... I'm glad Dorn will be doing more work here.
>
> I can't imagine anyone's idea of sublime love actually involves staring at
> the all-too-substantial flesh of Eaglen & Heppner for 15 minutes...
>
A Tsar Is Born
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote
> There is something evidently that Europeans find attractive in catchy
> tunes played as though they were orchestrated by Brahms or Tchaikovsky.
> The American taste tends to favor "down home" Cajun or Blue Grass
> offerings, spiced by banjos and kazoos.
Only lately. Until quite recent times, the American lowest-brow taste was
for pop or semi-classical tunes rendered harmless by the likes of Andre
Kostelantetz (Eurotrash avant le nom) or the Hollywood 101 Strings. I knew
this trend had reached its pinnacle and at the same time its final curtain
once when, stuck in a lo-o-ong slow elevator, I heard a 101-strings
arrangement of a Grateful Dead tune....
> Now, why this isn't called "Ameri-trash" I don't know.
I think in Europe, "American" for a version of anything created in a
classical European idiom is understood to imply "Ameritrash."
Hans Lick
atsar...@hotmail.com
A Tsar Is Born
"Britta" <britt...@hotmail.com> wrote > nbpa...@aol.com schrieb:
> >The challenge of any theatre for those in the business of creating an
event is
> >how to make it matter, NOT how to preserve some notion of historical
decorum.
> >This is the crux of controversies about operatic interpretation and the
> >obligation to composer and author of the text.
>
> To my mind, the best statement on this subject made yet. Bravo, Nick!
> Thank you very much for expressing this so clearly. We've all had
> our problems with "modern" stagings, but if this idea -- "how to make it
> matter" -- is the point of the whole thing, I think it's all somehow
> worthwhile.
Unfortunately, most "Eurotrash" directors assume that every other palate is
as jaded as his or her own, and therefore to "make it matter" means to shock
or nauseate as much of the audience as possible. Plainly, we cannot be
touched by beautiful music or appealing drama. We have to be thrilled,
appalled, horrified or we won't get our money's worth. Or so they seem to
think.
Francesca Zambello says she can't remember a staging of a Verdi opera that
touched her. She's obviously attended too many Zambello stagings.
Hans Lick
atsar...@hotmail.com
Matthew B. Tepper
<3ac61...@news.starnetinc.com>:
>Francesca Zambello says she can't remember a staging of a Verdi opera
>that touched her. She's obviously attended too many Zambello stagings.
I think Francesca Zambello herself is touched in the head. (Self-interest
warning: I had several knock-down, drag-out flamewars with her back on
CompuServe. And I think she is a Grade A phony.)