Why no Callas/Gobbi Macbeth
Benjamin Rous
I bought the live La Scala Macbeth with Callas/Mascherini/Tajo et al
yesterday and I am listening to it now. The more I listen , the more it
becomes clear to me that there simply does not exist a more perfect Lady
Macbeth (besides the reading of the letter) than Callas. And this
ecording was her public debut in the role! That made me wonder why there
never was a studio Macbeth with the great pairing of Callas and Gobbi,
possibly with de Sabata conducting the whole. Why didn't EMI do this? It
would have been a sensation. If they had done it in say '53 , Callas
would still have had the flawless voice and she would have had the
benefit of just having sung an entire series of Macbeth at La Scala. Why
did EMI deprive us of this possibly great opportunity ?
Benjamin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"On ne meurt pas chacun pour soi , mais les uns pour les autres,
ou meme les uns a la place des autres , qui sait?"
James Jorden
Benjamin Rous wrote:
> That made me wonder why there
> never was a studio Macbeth with the great pairing of Callas and Gobbi,
> possibly with de Sabata conducting the whole. Why didn't EMI do this?
Old saying: in the theater, if a question begins with the word "why",
the answer is always the same: "money."
--
james jorden
jjo...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.anaserve.com/~parterre
"Without Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals, there is no theater."
-- Mel Brooks in "To Be or Not to Be"
HenryFogel
>From: Benjamin Rous <di...@demeern.sgi.com>
>Date: Sun, Jan 4, 1998 08:56 EST
>Message-id: <34AF9520...@demeern.sgi.com>
>
>I bought the live La Scala Macbeth with Callas/Mascherini/Tajo et al
>yesterday and I am listening to it now. The more I listen , the more it
>becomes clear to me that there simply does not exist a more perfect Lady
>Macbeth (besides the reading of the letter) than Callas. And this
>never was a studio Macbeth with the great pairing of Callas and Gobbi,
>would have been a sensation. If they had done it in say '53 , Callas
>would still have had the flawless voice and she would have had the
>benefit of just having sung an entire series of Macbeth at La Scala. Why
>did EMI deprive us of this possibly great opportunity ?
>
>Benjamin
One can only speculate -- but it is known that Walter Legge, the chief producer
of classical records at EMI in those days, and Callas' producer, did not care
for Italian opera in general -- and in particular did not care for what he
called "second-rate Verdi" (meaning all but the most popular and known
masterpieces). If I had to guess, Legge didn't care for Macbeth, and believed
that it wouldn't sell. Remember, in those days, the catalogue was not filled
with a zillion multiple versions of the standard repertoire; very often Callas
was making one of the few then-modern recordings of the standard opera (along
with Tebaldi making them for rival Decca), and Macbeth was not known at all
outside of Italy. It had no complete recordings, wasn't performed with any
regularity at any opera house in the world outside of Italy. I would imagine
that all of those factors combined to persuade EMI that it would have a
financial fiasco on its hands if it tried to release a commercial Macbeth. It
is truly a shame -- because the combination of flaws (sound quality,
Mascherini's uninteresting Macbeth, Gino Penno's bawling tenor) could all have
been corrected in an intelligently cast studio version.
Henry Fogel
Enzo62
Henry Fogel wrote:
>Macbeth was not known at all
>outside of Italy. It had no complete recordings, wasn't performed with any
>regularity at any opera house in the world outside of Italy.
Not true. The opera was performed with some frequency in German and Austrian
houses during the 1930's and 40's. Elisabeth Hoengen and Martha Moedl were
particularly noted for their portrayals of Lady Macbeth. Preiser recently
issued a 1943 recording of Macbeth in German with Hoengen and Karl Boehm
conducting.
Outside of the Teutonic countries, the opera was given at the Glyndebourne
Festival in the 1938. A later revival featured Margherita Grandi as Lady
Macbeth, a little-known soprano whose few recordings are prized by aficionados.
While I agree that Macbeth was not standard fare in the repertory of most opera
houses during the first half of this century, it was not entirely unknown
outside of Italy.
Enzo Bordello
Claud H. Shirley III
Enzo62 wrote:
>
A later revival (of Macbeth) featured Margherita Grandi as Lady
> Macbeth, a little-known soprano whose few recordings are prized by aficionados.
>
singer.
Ed Rosen
Hi-
I'm almost positive that this recording was planned by EMI in the 50's.
I recall reading this in some interview with Callas from the late 60s,
though I honestly don't know where or exactly when.
If memory serves, the recording was planned for around the time Callas
recorded Forza, with Tucker & Tagliabue, in 1954. Gobbi was to have
been in the Forza, but bowed out due to illness. I believe the Macbeth
was cancelled for exactly that reason. They didn't want to do it with
another baritone, and figured they would get to it in the next few
years. They never did.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen,<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
Lyric Distribution, Inc. (Legato Classics, SRO, etc.)
http://www.lyricdist.com
>
>
>
Frank Drake
On 4 Jan 1998, Enzo62 wrote:
> Henry Fogel wrote:
>
> >Macbeth was not known at all
> >outside of Italy. It had no complete recordings, wasn't performed with any
> >regularity at any opera house in the world outside of Italy.
>
> Not true. The opera was performed with some frequency in German and Austrian
> houses during the 1930's and 40's. Elisabeth Hoengen and Martha Moedl were
> particularly noted for their portrayals of Lady Macbeth. Preiser recently
> issued a 1943 recording of Macbeth in German with Hoengen and Karl Boehm
> conducting.
This recording was issued in the early 50s on the Urania label. It is
highly abridged, but quite interesting. I rather doubt that the Urania
set sold many copies, since only recently have I managed to track down a
copy. It was one of the few Urania issues which the Vox label did NOT
reissue in the early 60s. Question: is the Preiser a complete
performance, or is as highly abridged as the Urania (which was on 2 LPs)
>
> Outside of the Teutonic countries, the opera was given at the
> Glyndebourne Festival in the 1938. A later revival featured Margherita
> Grandi as Lady Macbeth, a little-known soprano whose few recordings are
> prized by aficionados.
>
Grandi recorded the Sleepwalking Scene with Beecham and this is one of the
most effective recordings ever. Eddie Smith issued a complete Macbeth
with her, and she is very good there, but nearly as wonderfully eerie as
she is on the Beecham recording.
Still, I'm sure Legge would have thought that recording Macbeth in 1953
would be a financial disaster. For instance, I beleive it was he who,
when Culshaw told him London was recording Rheingold in Vienna, said, very
interesting, but you won't sell any.
Sigh! There are so many recordings which we, in hindsight, may wish to
have been made.
But we weren't there, were we!
FRANK DRAKE
CHICAGO
jfu...@unix.asb.com
Astrid Varnay also sang Lady Macbeth very effectively, both in Italian and
German. There is
a CD set out there (and on my shelves) with Metternich as Macbeth opposite
Varnay conducted
by the VERY exciting Richard Kraus. This was done on radio in Köln, and
she sang it staged
in Florence at the Maggio Musicale and in many other venues.
BTW: Did Lady Macbeth have a first name?
Joe
In article <19980104170...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, enz...@aol.com
(Enzo62) wrote:
> Henry Fogel wrote:
>
> >Macbeth was not known at all
> >outside of Italy. It had no complete recordings, wasn't performed with any
> >regularity at any opera house in the world outside of Italy.
>
> Not true. The opera was performed with some frequency in German and Austrian
> houses during the 1930's and 40's. Elisabeth Hoengen and Martha Moedl were
> particularly noted for their portrayals of Lady Macbeth. Preiser recently
> issued a 1943 recording of Macbeth in German with Hoengen and Karl Boehm
> conducting.
>
> Outside of the Teutonic countries, the opera was given at the Glyndebourne
> Festival in the 1938. A later revival featured Margherita Grandi as Lady
> Macbeth, a little-known soprano whose few recordings are prized by
aficionados.
>
Benjamin Rous
No , she doesn't. In Verdi and Shakespeare alike she is just referred to
as Lady Macbeth. I guess because it's customary for the time : women
didn't have much to say (publicly) and their husbands were the ones that
mattered , so they were known by the name of their husbands. So the wife
of Macbeth is Lady Macbeth , just as the wife of Macduff is Lady
Macduff.
Benjamin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"On ne meurt chacun pour soi , mais les uns pour les autres,
rse100
On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 jfu...@unix.asb.com wrote:
[snip]
>
> BTW: Did Lady Macbeth have a first name?
Not in the opera or the play, but I remember looking up the name of
the historical Lady Macbeth some years ago. I forget it now, but it
was something very ugly beginning with G, I believe.
I'll try to find the reference again.
Ruth
Frank Drake
I don't have it exactly, but it was something like Gruach. Whatever it
was, it certainly was a fittingly horrid name.
FRANK DRAKE
CHICAGO
Ed Rosen
How about Mildred?
>
Ed Rosen
Hi-
Join a bunch of us for live IRC chat. Hit IRC chat, and enter #opera
and we can talk.
Best,
Ed
>>
>
jfu...@unix.asb.com
In article <68ph7a$e...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>,
lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
> How about Mildred?
as in Pierce or Miller? I think something more along the lines of Debbie
or Jane would be nice,
and I don't mean Reynolds or Powell.
Joe
Stephen Abrams
The Callas-Gobbi partership is a myth. Until the final series of Tosca's
they hardly ever sang together. There was Traviata in Chicago in 1954.
That ended in a row. A single performance of Barbiere at the Scala, in
which Callas failed, and not much more - perhaps Tosca and Traviata in S.
America around 1951. In any case, there never was a time when Callas was
"flawless" and there is also some question as to whether Gobbi was up to the
role of Macbeth. I haven't heard his recording (from Covent Garden) but I
recall reports that he cut the aria.
Benjamin Rous wrote in message <34AF9520...@demeern.sgi.com>...
Old Pretender
I waver among Tiffany, Kimberley, Darlene, Enid, and Shirley.
Old Pretender
Matthew B. Tepper
Buffy.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Joel P. Klein
Wasn't Callas supposed to have been the Lady Macbeth in the Met
revival with Warren shortly prior to the great baritone's death? I
personally feel that this would have been a glorious pairing.
Warren's recorded performance is riveting in both intesity and sheer
vocalism.
janeh...@*no-spam*hotmail.com
yeah, you're right. But Maria delayed signing the Met contract with
roles Bing offered her (I think Traviata and Lucia were the other
roles offered including Lady Macbeth). But Maria said her voice
wasn't an elevator so Bing left her on the ground floor. He fired her
when she was in Dallas to sing Medea (an incredible performance
available on Gala 100.521). Leonie Rysanek took over Lady Macbeth with
Warren. It's been said that Bing paid somebody to shout "Brava
Callas" when Leonie made her entrance to summon up sympathy for her.
There's a recording of Macbeth with Rysanek and Warren with Leinsdorf
conducting, it's on RCA. That supposedly was the recording Maria
would have made had she not been fired, although I wonder if Walter
Legge would have let her appear as "guest artist" on another label.
-- to reply by e-mail, remove the obvious
Benjamin Rous
Joel P. Klein wrote:
>
> Wasn't Callas supposed to have been the Lady Macbeth in the Met
> revival with Warren shortly prior to the great baritone's death? I
> personally feel that this would have been a glorious pairing.
> Warren's recorded performance is riveting in both intesity and sheer
> vocalism.
She was supposed to have taken the role at the Met in 1959, but she
cancelled, saying her schedule would be too tough if she took on the
role. Rysanek took her place, and did the recording with Warren .Alas!
If La Divina wouldn't have cancelled, maybe she would have been the Lady
in this recording.It was '59 though, and her portrayal would have had
the vocal flaws of that period.If only she could have recorded it in '53
or shortly thereafter! I am quite hooked to her live recording now
though. Her "Vieni!T'affretta!" and her "La luce langue" are just
divine. And that sleepwalking scene! This is one of the moments I am so
glad that live-recordings are there, even though a studio version would
have had my preference.
Ed Rosen
Hi-
Callas certainly was to have been Mildred Macbeth in the Met's new
production with Warren in 1959.
I'm sure most of you know or have read that she was "fired" by Bing for
various reasons, summed up by Bing as refusing to honor her contract.
I was at the prima, and I remember some nut shouting Brava Callas right
at Rysanek. Years later, in his book, Bing admitted that he had put
the person up to this act, to, I think, "break the tension". Everyone
in the audience was shocked at the time.!
And Callas and Gobbi may not have had such a lasting partnership on
stage, but they certainly did on records. Lucia, Pagliacci, Aida,
Ballo, two Toscas, Rigoletto come right to mind. And they are all
classics in their own way. This partnership will last forever.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
Lyric Distribution, Inc. (Legato Classics. SRO, etc.)
http://www.lyricdist.com
Aage Johansen
Frank Drake wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, rse100 wrote:
> > On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 jfu...@unix.asb.com wrote:
> > > BTW: Did Lady Macbeth have a first name?
> > the historical Lady Macbeth some years ago. I forget it now, but it
> > was something very ugly beginning with G, I believe.
> > I'll try to find the reference again.
> > Ruth
> I don't have it exactly, but it was something like Gruach. Whatever it
> was, it certainly was a fittingly horrid name.
> FRANK DRAKE
> CHICAGO
According to the textbook accompanying the Rysanek/Leinsdorf, Lady M.'s
first name was "Gruach".
Aage J.
dtritter
More likely Buffy or Muffy.
dft
This article was posted from <A HREF="http://www.slurp.net/">Slurp Net</A>.
jfu...@unix.asb.com
In article <Pine.BSF.3.95.980104...@Mercury.mcs.net>,
Frank Drake <arns...@mcs.net> wrote:
Did Lady Macbeth have a first name?
> I don't have it exactly, but it was something like Gruach. Whatever it
> was, it certainly was a fittingly horrid name.
>
> FRANK DRAKE
> CHICAGO
That's it Frank !! I remember now, it's not Debbie after all, but GRUACH !!
Matthew B. Tepper
dtritter wrote:
>
> Old Pretender wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 03:30:14 GMT, jfu...@unix.asb.com wrote:
> >
> > >In article <68ph7a$e...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>,
> > >lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
> > >
> > >> How about Mildred?
> > >
> > >as in Pierce or Miller? I think something more along the lines of
> > >Debbie or Jane would be nice,
> > >and I don't mean Reynolds or Powell.
> > >
> > >Joe
> >
> > I waver among Tiffany, Kimberley, Darlene, Enid, and Shirley.
> >
> > Old Pretender
>
> More likely Buffy or Muffy.
>
> dft
In that case, probably Snuffy.
James Jorden
ReNAAAAAAAY.
James Jorden
janehudson@*no-spam*hotmail.com wrote:
> yeah, you're right. But Maria delayed signing the Met contract with
> roles Bing offered her (I think Traviata and Lucia were the other
> roles offered including Lady Macbeth). But Maria said her voice
> wasn't an elevator so Bing left her on the ground floor. [etc.]
The sticking point in this contract was not the regular season, but the
tour, on which Bing required Callas to sing twice a week, one Violetta
and one Lady Macbeth. The tour was about six weeks long, and the
artists traveled from city to city by train. In his biography of
Callas, Michael Scott expresses the opinion that Callas realized that
she simply could not pull off this very difficult tour and thought that
by stalling she would coerce Bing into changing the assignment or else
canceling the contract outright. Given the overwrought way Meneghini
(crisis-)managed Callas's career, and Bing's habit of taking personally
setbacks in contract negotiations, the blowup was pretty close to
inevitable.
That 40 years later we are still debating the rights and wrongs of a
contract for a handful of performances just goes to prove the immense
importance of the principals in this controversy.
Cyclops
You're all wrong...it's Prunella
Lis K. Froding
In article <34B113...@deltanet.com>,
"Matthew B. Tepper" <ducky兀deltanet.com> wrote:
>jfu...@unix.asb.com wrote:
>>
>> BTW: Did Lady Macbeth have a first name?
>
>Buffy.
Beth?
Lis
jfu...@unix.asb.com
RS Elleson
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Aage Johansen wrote:
> Frank Drake wrote:
> > On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, rse100 wrote:
> > > On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 jfu...@unix.asb.com wrote:
> ...
> > > > BTW: Did Lady Macbeth have a first name?
> > > Not in the opera or the play, but I remember looking up the name of
> > > the historical Lady Macbeth some years ago. I forget it now, but it
> > > was something very ugly beginning with G, I believe.
> > > I'll try to find the reference again.
> > > Ruth
> > I don't have it exactly, but it was something like Gruach. Whatever it
> > was, it certainly was a fittingly horrid name.
> > FRANK DRAKE
> > CHICAGO
>
> According to the textbook accompanying the Rysanek/Leinsdorf, Lady M.'s
> first name was "Gruach".
>
> Aage J.
You're right - and I remembered it too, just after I posted the original
message. It DOES suit her, doesn't it!!?
Ruth
Kalliban
As one who has access to unpublished material, I can tell you with
absolute authority....it's Zelda.
GRiggs
James Jorden wrote:
>
> janehudson@*no-spam*hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > yeah, you're right. But Maria delayed signing the Met contract with
> > roles Bing offered her (I think Traviata and Lucia were the other
> > roles offered including Lady Macbeth). But Maria said her voice
> > wasn't an elevator so Bing left her on the ground floor. [etc.]
>
> The sticking point in this contract was not the regular season, but the
> tour, on which Bing required Callas to sing twice a week, one Violetta
> and one Lady Macbeth. The tour was about six weeks long, and the
> artists traveled from city to city by train. In his biography of
> Callas, Michael Scott expresses the opinion that Callas realized that
> she simply could not pull off this very difficult tour and thought that
> by stalling she would coerce Bing into changing the assignment or else
> canceling the contract outright. Given the overwrought way Meneghini
> (crisis-)managed Callas's career, and Bing's habit of taking personally
> setbacks in contract negotiations, the blowup was pretty close to
> inevitable.
To be truly candid, I never stop being astounded over the (frankly,
Orwellian) way Meneghini's account, in his published book, of the 1958
breach with the Met continues being (wilfully?) ignored by so many.
Meneghini states quite clearly that he came to the realization *in*
*1958* that a possible concert tour throughout the U.S. would be more
lucrative than a stint--during the very same weeks/months--with the
Metropolitan. He goes on to say that he ran his thoughts by "Maria" and
that she indicated to him he could feel free to do whatever was needed
to free her up for the concert tour *instead*. He further makes it
clear that there was a tacit understanding between himself and "Maria"
that they were engaged from then on in a game of brinksmanship with
Bing, which was *intended* to conclude--and conclude it did--with an
exasperated Bing cancelling the entire Met contract on his own
initiative. In other words, both Meneghini and Callas herself acquired
exactly what they wanted when their ties to the Met were severed. So
writes Meneghini. The English translation of M's account has been long
available for all to see. I believe the translated book is entitled My
Wife Maria Callas or something similar.
Granted, it is entirely possible that M's account may not be the entire
story either, but I think we ignore it at our peril and end up looking
very foolish. Let us either attempt conscientiously to show exactly how
M's account could indeed be seriously flawed after all, or, failing
that, at least acknowledge that what he tells us is at least *highly*
pertinent to the cancellation controversy.
Let me just add I am a true admirer of Maria Callas's endlessly
fascinating performances--there are at least a few roles that she
interprets more perceptively than anyone else on disc--but I do not
admire obfuscation posing as knowledge and I sometimes sense precisely
that (whether imagined or not) coming from some other fans.
Now I realize I am being more blunt here than usual; and perhaps I am
bending certain rules of civility that I have honestly sought to abide
by on this newsgroup in the past. But the persistently defensive tone
in the constant *apparent* prevarication from a number of fans, when
asked to look directly at the light M. sought to shed on this in his
book, has been so frequent in my experience concerning this Met
cancellation, both on *and* off this newsgroup, that, with the best of
intentions, I could not ignore this need here for a reality check once
and for all.
I readily concede that ignorance of M.'s account remains a distant
possibility. But on a newsgroup this knowledgeable, such ignorance
seems sadly unlikely. I sincerely hope that I have not burnt any
bridges here, but if nobody is going to be honest enough to at least
*mention* what Meneghini wrote, regardless of whether he is credible or
not. . . .
Sigh. . . .
> That 40 years later we are still debating the rights and wrongs of a
> contract for a handful of performances just goes to prove the immense
> importance of the principals in this controversy.
GRiggs
M. Black
This question is a so obvious I'm surprised someone hasn't said it yet.
Everyone knows that Lady Macbeth's first name is Hillary!!!! How about
Rodham for the middle name?? ;)
--
"Should I care?"
GRiggs
No gratuitous politics on this newsgroup, please. :(
GRiggs
M. Black
GRiggs wrote:
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
--
"Should I care?"
Dale Erwin
Kalliban wrote:
>
> As one who has access to unpublished material, I can tell you with
> absolute authority....it's Zelda.
Right! and her maiden name was Schwartz.
--
Dale Erwin
James Jorden
Sara Freeman wrote:
> Don't you knock Nancy!
You can see how Sara would envy a woman whose husband has Alzheimer's.
g.f.
It's Gruach. I have no idea how it's pronounced.
Greg
GRiggs
on Legato ;~)
GRiggs
Shahrdad
I agree with you about Callas' Lady Macbeth. Her singing in 1952 is
absolutely amazing and will likely remain unrivalled. I think people who
say she didn't have a big voice in her prime should listen to this; her
sound is absolutely gigantic, all the way from the alto-ish low notes to the
pipe-organ like top. And the musicality and interpretation is mind
boggling. Sheer genius. I do like her commercial sleepwalking scene better
though. Rescigno's tempo is much better judged and illuminating than
DeSabata's.
Benjamin Rous wrote in message <34B12403...@demeern.sgi.com>...
Peter
M. Black wrote:
> This question is a so obvious I'm surprised someone hasn't said it yet.
> Everyone knows that Lady Macbeth's first name is Hillary!!!! How about
> Rodham for the middle name?? ;)
Nope! Just to come over as completely humo(u)rless in line with Newsgroup
Rules, her name was Gruoch.
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <68ug3f$q...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
bjoe...@cyberdude.com spake:
>
>This question is a so obvious I'm surprised someone hasn't said it
>yet. Everyone knows that Lady Macbeth's first name is Hillary!!!!
>How about Rodham for the middle name?? ;)
Nope, has to be Nancy!
Sara Freeman
In <68um5r$2u8$2...@news01.deltanet.com> ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B.
Tepper) writes:
>
>In article <68ug3f$q...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
>bjoe...@cyberdude.com spake:
>>
>>This question is a so obvious I'm surprised someone hasn't said it
>>yet. Everyone knows that Lady Macbeth's first name is Hillary!!!!
>>How about Rodham for the middle name?? ;)
>
>Nope, has to be Nancy!
Don't you knock Nancy!
>
>--
>Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
>My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
>My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
>And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
>To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
>
--
*********************************
* 1997 CD of the Year *
* Jorma Hynninen / Summer Moods *
*********************************
Sara Freeman
In <68ug3f$q...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> "M. Black"
<bjoe...@cyberdude.com> writes:
>
>This question is a so obvious I'm surprised someone hasn't said it
yet.
>Everyone knows that Lady Macbeth's first name is Hillary!!!! How
about
>Rodham for the middle name?? ;)
>
>"Should I care?"
>
>
Now that's something I've got to agree with you about. And she's got
the husband to match.
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <68utj1$l...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
fre...@ix.netcom.com spake:
>
>In <68um5r$2u8$2...@news01.deltanet.com> ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B.
>Tepper) writes:
>>
>>In article <68ug3f$q...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
>>bjoe...@cyberdude.com spake:
>>>
>>>yet. Everyone knows that Lady Macbeth's first name is Hillary!!!!
>>>How about Rodham for the middle name?? ;)
>>
>
>Don't you knock Nancy!
I've met Nancy, and I will knock her as long as I draw breath.
Compared with Nancy, Hillary bakes cookies, Liddy Dole knits sweaters,
and Edith Wilson clipped coupons!
>>--
>>Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
>>My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
>>My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
>>And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
>>To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
>>
>
>--
>*********************************
>* 1997 CD of the Year *
>* Jorma Hynninen / Summer Moods *
>*********************************
--
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser
On 6 Jan 1998, g.f. wrote:
> It's Gruach. I have no idea how it's pronounced.
Just a hunch, but if you hawk up a loogie, you might come close......<:-))
WW
Team OS/2 Cincinnati & PROUD OF IT!
(and Cincinnati Opera subscriber & PROUD OF IT!)
JDavis6627
>It's Gruach. I have no idea how it's pronounced.
Probably= Gruach-o (Want to buy a duck?)
Jon Davis
"Living well is the best revenge"
Oscar Wilde
Apurt
Her name was Magill
And she called herself Lil
But everyone Knew her as Nancy
Ann Purtill
New York City
Ap...@aol.com
Kenneth Wolman
On 8 Jan 1998 08:19:12 GMT, ap...@aol.com (Apurt) wrote:
>Her name was Magill
>And she called herself Lil
>But everyone Knew her as Nancy
No, her name was Leonie.
Ken W.
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser
On 8 Jan 1998, Apurt wrote:
> Her name was Magill
> And she called herself Lil
> But everyone Knew her as Nancy
No no no. That's Lady MacRaccoon.........
Lis K. Froding
In article <34b50b42...@sanews1.ms.com>,
kwo...@ms.com (Kenneth Wolman) wrote:
>On 8 Jan 1998 08:19:12 GMT, ap...@aol.com (Apurt) wrote:
>
>>Her name was Magill
>>And she called herself Lil
>>But everyone Knew her as Nancy
>
>No, her name was Leonie.
And she lived in Leonia.
Lis
GRNDPADAVE
>>On 8 Jan 1998 08:19:12 GMT, ap...@aol.com (Apurt) wrote:
>>
>>>Her name was Magill
>>>And she called herself Lil
>>>But everyone Knew her as Nancy
>>
>>No, her name was Leonie.
>
>And she lived in Leonia.
For those who really dig it,
Her name could only be Birgit;
-
For others, surely,
It will always be Shirley;
-
Unless a Verdian they be a,
In which case the name's Maria.
Benjamin Rous
And with the above three senza ,
The name is Fiorenza
LOL , Grandpa !
Ben
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"On ne meurt pas chacun pour soi , mais les uns pour les autres,
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser
> >On 8 Jan 1998 08:19:12 GMT, ap...@aol.com (Apurt) wrote:
> >>Her name was Magill
> >>And she called herself Lil
> >>But everyone Knew her as Nancy
> >No, her name was Leonie.
> And she lived in Leonia.
Until she changed her name to Elbo
And moved to Elbonia.
Armando Bona
No, no! AP you just didn't research the history of this. Her first name
wasn't Nancy at all. It was Mary inasmuch as her maiden name was Mary
Dugan.
Rickiecat
Hi Frank:
I happen to have a copy of the Urania Macbeth which I bought new many years ago
in a record store.
It is in German you know and very well it sounds in that language. I haven't
compared it line for line with other records and my score so I don't know how
abridged it is.
Interesting that someone else remembers Elisabeth Höngen's Lady Macbeth.
Regards,
John F. Cook
San Pedro, CA 90732
rick...@aol.com
Rickiecat
>
>No, no! AP you just didn't research the history of this. Her first name
>wasn't Nancy at all. It was Mary inasmuch as her maiden name was Mary
>Dugan.
>
>
Actually to be serious Lady Macbeth's historical first name was "Gruach" I am
quoting from the essay on MacBeth by Henry Simon which accompanied the RCA
recording with Warren, Rysanek and Leinsdorf. In a footnotet he
says:"Historically, there were eighteen years between the murder of Duncan and
the end of MacBeth's reign-plenty of time for the Lady to decline in. Her
given name was Gruach, and one wonders why Shakespeare made no use of such an
appropriately harsh sound"
kate brown
On 13 Jan 1998 17:32:38 GMT, rick...@aol.com (Rickiecat) wrote:
>
>Actually to be serious Lady Macbeth's historical first name was "Gruach" I am
>quoting from the essay on MacBeth by Henry Simon which accompanied the RCA
>recording with Warren, Rysanek and Leinsdorf. In a footnotet he
>says:"Historically, there were eighteen years between the murder of Duncan and
>the end of MacBeth's reign-plenty of time for the Lady to decline in. Her
>given name was Gruach, and one wonders why Shakespeare made no use of such an
>appropriately harsh sound"
If any of you like seriously meaty historical novels, I can recommend
'King Hereafter' by the Scottish author Dorothy Dunnett - a brilliant
evocation of the real Macbeth - an 11th century (I think - the book's
not with me at the moment) Earl of Orkney and Caithness, who
gradually acquired all of Alba. Mrs Dunnett says Gruach was baptised
Margaret.
It's a long way from Verdi, though. I wonder what he would have
called her?
Kate B
take time out to reply
Claud H. Shirley III
kate brown wrote:
>
> If any of you like seriously meaty historical novels, I can recommend
> 'King Hereafter' by the Scottish author Dorothy Dunnett
Thanks for the tip - always in the market for a good, thick historical
novel. Regards, CHSIII