Lauritz Melchior
DM
Anyone have the opportunity to hear him live? Was he strictly at
heldentenor or did he venture out into other roles? What an amazing
voice. Read he was original trained as a baritone.
Dan
Richard Loeb
only sang the Wagner repertoire. He was THE Heldentenor - originally a
baritone, some genius realized he was actually a tenor - the result was, on
the whole, the greatest Wagner tenor that ever lived.
"DM" <danm...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:892-3E4...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Mike Richter
He was originally trained as a baritone and recorded in that capacity.
He was competent there, but little more. He sang other roles, but not at
the Met; he was highly regarded in Otello and the snippets available
indicate that there was good reason, but in his 519 performances at the
Metropolitan, he sang only in Wagner operas.
There is a page of Bill Scharf's reminiscences at my WWW site. He began
with Ponselle's Carmen, followed soon with Melchior and he's still
around at least occasionally on opera-l.
Leonard Tillman
his baritone-phase.
Leonard Tillman
"It's not whether you win or lose, – it's how you PLACE the BLAME!" --
Vince Schwartz, - 2001.
Re - A frequent objection:
"Life's way too short to stay On Topic"
-- A. Nonymous (*He* said it. - So, fight with HIM!)
NNRathbun
pretty pretty much only sang the Wagner repertoire. He was THE Heldentenor -
originally a baritone, some genius realized he was actually a tenor - the
result was, on
the whole, the greatest Wagner tenor that ever lived.
I know that there are recordings of Melchior singing Italian rep, not in
Italian. (Was it German?) For those of you who have heard these recordings,
does he have a good high voice, above A? I don't know the Wagner tenor rep
that well, but my impression is that although the tessitura is killer in a lot
of the roles (lying up around E-G a LOT), they don't go much higher than A. Is
that correct? And, if so, how does Melchior do on the B's (and C's?) in the
Italian rep?
TIA,
Nancy
Drakejake
>baritone, some genius realized he was actually a tenor - the result was, on
>the whole, the greatest Wagner tenor that ever lived.
I have the baritone recordings from 1913-15 and the early tenor recordings,
1920-21 Danacord. His baritone voice was quite similar to the tenor voice of a
few years later. He had the same vocal placement, technique, and timbre as a
tenor he had as a baritone. Compare Renato Zanelli, who had a very beautiful
voice as a baritone, less attractive as a dramatic tenor. The two voices are
totally different and unrecognizable as coming from the same singer.
Melchior was very clear on how he developed his voice. He began as a high
baritone and then added the tenor notes on top and integrated thm with his
baritone range. . A heavy heldentenor can sing tenor high notes, but usually
cannot sustain a high tenor tesitura. Melchior thought Meistersinger was too
high for him and never sang Walter on stage.
Because of this basically baritone voice, Melchior had the fat middle and lower
register needed for his Wagnerian roles. His high notes were very piercing,
very focussed in the mask, and this helped them cut through the big orchestra.
His vocal weakness was a tendency towards tightness and thinning tone as he
went to the top of his range. Some of his highest notes are virtually
headtones with little body or color. Totally different from those of the
Italian tenor.
In order to squeeze out these high notes and sing as much as he did, perhaps
more than any other famous tenor, he had enormous breath support coming from
that huge torso. That is the secret of his stamina and vocal longevity.
Melchior's voice was ideally suited to the Wagnerian roles he sang, but he
couldn't have very well managed typical tenor roles such as Calaf, Radames, or
Don Alvaro, because of the tessitura (although he may have attempted Radames a
few times). A Dane long married to a German woman, he was much more at home in
the German language and lacked the line and legato for good Italian style, IMO.
Jake Drake
HenryFogel
>From: drak...@aol.com (Drakejake)
>Date: 2/9/2003 1:57 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20030209145710...@mb-ma.aol.com>
But his Otello recordings (particularly the ones in German, where he was
clearly more comfortable) are wonderful - and actually fine models of an
Italianate style despite the language (much as Wunderlich was able to do).
Henry Fogel
Richard Loeb
language recorddings of the same pieces.
"HenryFogel" <henry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030209151443...@mb-ms.aol.com...
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:Xns931DD12...@127.0.0.1:
> nnra...@aol.com (NNRathbun) wrote:
>
> --snip--
>> I know that there are recordings of Melchior singing Italian rep,
>> not in Italian. (Was it German?) For those of you who have heard
>> these recordings, does he have a good high voice, above A? I
>> don't know the Wagner tenor rep that well, but my impression is
>> that although the tessitura is killer in a lot of the roles (lying
>> up around E-G a LOT), they don't go much higher than A. Is that
>> correct? And, if so, how does Melchior do on the B's (and C's?)
>> in the Italian rep?
>
> There is nothing to fear.
> I had on LP excerpts from Otello (in german), with Barbirolli
> conducting iirc.
> At the end of "Dio, mi potevi" he sang a enormous b flat ("o GIOia").
> In the potted Ring he sings quite easily the "ha-ha-ha"s or "ho-ho-ho"s
> when he enters the stage, which go up to c.
There are excerpts (alas, only those) of Melchior singing it in Italian:
both "Dio mi potevi scagliar" and "Niun mi tema" from 1942 with Leinsdorf;
"Tu?! Indietro!" and Talor vedeste" through "Si pel ciel," with Janssen
from Teatro Colón with Juan Emilio Martini conducting; "Ora e per sempre"
from 1946 and an "Esultate!" from 1960 ... when he was 70 years old!
At least, I *think* these are all in Italian; my Melchior database does not
have all the information, including conductor names on the last two items.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
J.Venning
end of his life unfortunately, but it still showed his tremendous vocal
prowess in the middle range, though he obviously had trouble going up to the
A. Different techniques are required to tackle the Italian and the Wagnerian
repertoire, and it was probably wise to let Melchior concentrate on what he
was obviously peerless - the Wagnerian helden tenor roles. Domingo had a go
at both categories, and until about 15 years ago, he was pretty good at
them.
J.
"Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)" <oyş@earthlink.net>
wrote in message news:Xns931D8677B4C...@207.217.77.22...
Richard Loeb
under Barbirolli.
"Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)" <oyş@earthlink.net>
wrote in message news:Xns931D8677B4C...@207.217.77.22...
DM
What exactly lends one to be a heldentenor? Is it the range of the
voice? The tone of the voice? The power of the voice? Do you think
Melchoir's early training as a baritone made him "The Heldentenor?"
Dan
Edward A. Cowan
> He was THE Heldentenor - originally a baritone, some genius realized
> he was actually a tenor - the result was, on the whole, the greatest
> Wagner tenor that ever lived.
The "genius" was Mme. Charles Cahier, the contralto who participated in
the WP of Mahler's "Das Lied von der Erde". She told baritone-Melchior
he was like a tenor with the "lid" still on. You can hear him in
recordings from his baritone period (on Danacord, a label that has
published all of Melchior's commercial recordings) and then the early
tenor titles. (Hear, in particular, an acoustic 78 of "Nur eine Waffe"
from _Parsifal_. There will be no doubt in your mind that here is a real
tenor.) But the characteristic Melchior "sound" is audible in the
baritone recordings (e.g., "Il balen," from _Il trovatore_, sung in
Danish), though you will have to fiddle with the pitch of the Danacord
issues of the baritone recordings to get them into score pitch. This
will require a CD player with variable pitch.
--E.A.C.
GrahSndrs
Melchoir's early training as a baritone made him "The Heldentenor?"
No, No, and No again. This is one of the myths in singing!!!!! The voice
always was a tenor!! And since Heldentenor is the same as the Italian
Dramatico, the type of voice is far more important ie: you cannot turn a lyric
high baritone into a Dramatic tenor, because the the voice will remain lyric at
its core. This is the big mistake!!!
Graham
Graham
Drakejake
>ItalianDramatico, the type of voice is far more important ie: you cannot turn
>a lyrichigh baritone into a Dramatic tenor, because the the voice will remain
>lyric atits core. This is the big mistake!!!GrahamGraham
NO, NO, NO! The voice was always baritone but with tenor notes tacked on at
the top. In fact, in certain recordings, Melchior shows the low notes of a
bass. A dramatic heldentenor is not the same as an Italian dramatic tenor,
like Del Monaco. Melchior's middle note was at least a whole step lower than
that of the typical tenor. And therefore he began covering at E instead of F
or F sharp. The average tessitura of Melchior's roles is pitched one of two
notes lower than that of the tenor in, say, Otello, Samson, or Fidelio.
As Melchior himself stated, a heavy (schwere?) heldentenor ideally starts out
with a high baritone voice and then adds a couple of notes at the top. The
tessitura of his main roles is largely high baritone with some tenor notes
thrown in. Melchior could sing an occasional high A or B flat, but could not
healthily sustain the tessitura of Calaf or Radames. This is why he didn't
perform Walter in Meistersinger--the part is too high for his voice.
A dramatic heldentenor--who sings Tristan, Siegfried, Siegmund--is different
from the typical Italian tenor in that he has more power and richness in the
middle and lower registers, plus the stamina to get through these parts.
Hence, Domingo in his late career has found Siegmund in Walkure an agreeable
role, because of the low essitura. I believe this role is fairly short. Ditto
Parsifal.
Jake Drake
GrahSndrs
the top. In fact, in certain recordings, Melchior shows the low notes of a
bass. A dramatic heldentenor is not the same as an Italian dramatic tenor,
Ok, I am bowing out, I have too many other things to do, but believe me you are
wrong. I will not answer this thread anymore.
Graham
Leonard Tillman
Zanelli and Giovanni Zenatello be characterized?
Leonard Tillman
"97.37853% of the people who use statistics in arguments make them up. "
Mike Richter
I have posted it - at score pitch, I believe - at my WWW site on a page
devoted to baritones who turned tenor.
Mike Richter
> In this connection, how would the voices/careers/repertoires of Renato
> Zanelli and Giovanni Zenatello be characterized?
Zanelli went along Melchior's path with similar success. I have a great
deal of difficulty distinguishing his voice from his brother's. In fact,
on the "Si puo?" CD-ROM we have two arias in which you can compare the
two. Though it is not on that disc, you can also compare Zanelli's voice
before and after adding the upper notes; except on the top notes, there
is no change in production from his baritone days. Again, I think his
retraining in Chile served primarily to take the lid off his voice, a
lid which apparently was firmly locked on his brother's.
To my ear, Zenatello was always a tenor and arguably a spinto, not a
drammatico. Many spintos have succeeded as Otello; Domingo is one of the
more recent examples.
william d. kasimer
>Ok, I am bowing out, I have too many other things to do, but believe
me you >are wrong. I will not answer this thread anymore.
A wise move, Graham. Hood (aka Drake Jake) is a fool, but he's a
long-winded and persistent one.
FWIW, I think that you're absolutely right; Melchior sounded like a
tenor even during his "baritone" period.
Bill
Edward A. Cowan
> Did Melchior sing "Il balen" in B flat major as
> written, and did Danacord's transfer make it sound higher or lower? Or
> did Melchior sing it in a "wrong" key?
I'm pretty sure that Melchior sang and recorded "Il balen" in B flat
major, but also certain that the dubbing from Danacord is below score
pitch, thus falsifying not only the aria but also Melchior's performance
of it. Whenever I play the relevant track(s) of the Danacord CD at score
pitch, using a special CD player that has variable pitch, Melchior's
tenor timbre is immediately recognizable. (IOW, Mme. Charles Cahier was
right about his voice -- he was a real tenor.) I am delighted to learn
from Mike Richter that a correctly-pitched version of that performance
is to be heard from his web site.
--E.A.C.
Mike Richter
The material at my WWW site is changed weekly. The page in question was
posted a few years ago and the selection is not there now.
--
mric...@cpl.net
http://www.mrichter.com/
Edward A. Cowan
> The material at my WWW site is changed weekly. The page in question was
> posted a few years ago and the selection is not there now.
I'm very sorry to learn of this. However, I hope this exchange has
enabled those interested in the matter of correct pitch that such
correction is possible even with published CD's. FWIW, I have no idea
how many of the currently-available CD players are enabled to perform
pitch correction.
--E.A.C.
