E flat? is that difficult?
paolo
Dan Ford wrote:
>
> I recently heard Faith Esham in Hoffmann. As Olympia and again later
> (Guiletta?) she hit some high notes that in a small theater were amazing.
> I was told afterward they were E flats. Is that easy or difficult for a
> soprano?
>
> Thanks -
>
> - Dan (http://www.concentric.net/~danford)
Hey Dan: Glad to hear Faith still has her E flats. She can hit them
with such dead-on accuracy that it's nearly heartstopping. When I
watched the video of Opera North's Traviata, her E flat at the end of
Sempre Libera were not only musically thrilling, but with her arms
folded across her chest and her expressions perfectly captured
Violetta's emotions. It was pure magic!
Sorry you've already gone to the show, I had hopped to meet you! I've
got a ticket to next Weds (the 20th) and cannot wait. Looks like about
a 3 hour drive from Portland.
Could you provide us w/a review of Hoffmann? I've searched the net
everywhere and couldn't find a single review of this production.
BTW Faith is about 50 now, and I'm amazed that she can still pull off
Olympia "like a doll." (She still looks like one too!)
Paolo.
Neal Goren
Dessay is a coloratura soprano, and coloratura voices sit much higher than
lyric sopranos like Esham. Dessay sings higher than any soprano since Mado
Robin (actually those are A flats unless the aria is transposed down), and
with lovely tone to boot. For a lyric soprano a E flat is very high indeed
and Esham is indeed praiseworthy. You probably know that she started her
career as a mezzo, further proof that her voice sits more in the middle.
paolo
Dessay, does indeed have lovely tone (especially when one considers some
of the coloratura sopranos of the past with those "screech" sounds).
I go bonkers over voices like Faith's. Lyric, to be sure, but I once
heard her drown out the orchestra as Pamina! I've been a fan of hers
since I was a little kid and she used to sing in my church. I remember
her starting out (Lola, Cherubino, Zerlina) and then tackling soprano
roles (Gilda, Blanche de la Force, Pamina, Cindrillon, Leila,
Butterfly, Margaurite, all the Hoffmann ladies,) I believe she's sung
every female role in Nozze di Figaro. And what an actress: Her
Violetta is truly heartbreaking, as is her Melisande. Her Nedda (which
I've only seen on video) was a showstopper, especially in that hot pants
outfit where she bears an eerie resemblance to figure skater Katerina
Witt ... except Esham is much more petite than Witt.
Paolo (going to go watch the Traviata now and get knocked out by an Eb)
BNanaCake
<<I recently heard Faith Esham in Hoffmann. As Olympia and again later
(Guiletta?) she hit some high notes that in a small theater were amazing.
I was told afterward they were E flats. Is that easy or difficult for a
soprano?>>
Depends on who you are!
I just recently watched a video of excerpts from "Candide" with June
Anderson singing "Glitter and be Gay". She sang the long, held E flats
effortlessly.
Not all sopranos have this gift, though. And it's not neceesarily
considered "standard" that soprano own these notes. Definitely up to a C,
maybe a D, but not an E. A majority of the standard repertoire doesn't
require these notes.
Brenna
RS Elleson
Dan Ford <d...@christa.unh.edu> writes: >
> I recently heard Faith Esham in Hoffmann. As Olympia and again later
> (Guiletta?) she hit some high notes that in a small theater were amazing.
> I was told afterward they were E flats. Is that easy or difficult for a
> soprano?
>
It depends on the soprano. In the latest EMI recording of Hoffmenn (the one with Alagna) Natalie Dessay hits three (or possibly four) top Gs.
Ruth
Dan Ford
Braden Mechley
On 15 Aug 1997, BNanaCake wrote:
> I just recently watched a video of excerpts from "Candide" with June
> Anderson singing "Glitter and be Gay". She sang the long, held E flats
> effortlessly.
They're not quite so effortless now, but at her best she certainly had
them easily. In fact, with Miss Anderson one has that unusual situation
wherein the rest of the voice is undistinguished but the top takes on a
special quality and brilliance all its own. (I distinguish this from
singers like Sutherland and Tetrazzini, who had lovely sound in the middle
register as well as phenomenal tops.)
** Braden Mechley ** ele...@u.washington.edu ** Department of Classics **
Oh, too lovely to be true!
So much happiness to happen to
Lu-lu-lu,
Who-who-who
Might have never been sharing this jubilee
Had she not chosen wisely connubially ...
-- The First Lady in 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE
("Duet for One," lyrics by Alan Jay Lerner)
**************************************************************************
il Doge
Depending on the soprano, it ranges in difficulty from very,
very east to literally impossible with all the graduations
in between.
--
Dal
Rodger Alexander
Depends on the kind of voice. For a young soprano with a high, light
voice, E-flat may not be a difficult note. For a bigger, heavier voice,
E-flat may be out of reach. Since Ms. Esham started as a mezzo and has
been singing for quite awhile, hitting an E-flat sounds pretty impressive.
As I remember her Gilda in a New City Opera telecast, she sounded better
the higher she went.
>
>
>
CHERYL-LEE E CE CAMPBELL
In article <19970815135...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
BNanaCake <bnan...@aol.com> wrote:
><<I recently heard Faith Esham in Hoffmann. As Olympia and again later
>(Guiletta?) she hit some high notes that in a small theater were amazing.
>I was told afterward they were E flats. Is that easy or difficult for a
>soprano?>>
>
sopranos. It may be difficult for a dramatic soprano for instance
(although some can!), but then, for a lot of extremely high voices, it is
difficult to sing low notes with any power at all. That's
what makes voices so interesting...their differences.
Squirrel
Rodelinda
Depending on the soprano, it ranges in difficulty from very,
very east to literally impossible with all the graduations
in between.
--
Dal
I would add that it also depends on the context in which the e-flat has to
be sung: the dynamic level, the point in the aria in which it occurs,
whether it "sticks out" from the other notes or comes after a logical
progression such as a scale. Depending on all of these, even if you have
an e-flat, it can be easier or more difficult to sing, depending on the
musical context.
--Leah
g.f.
>Neal Goren wrote:
> Dessay is a coloratura soprano, and coloratura voices sit much higher
>than lyric sopranos like Esham. Dessay sings higher than any soprano
>since Mado Robin (actually those are A flats unless the aria is
Just for the record, there was Mady Mesple in between :) The
highest I knwo of her singing is a g, to Robin's b, but the same
is true of Dessay.
Shahrdad
As for whether an E flat in alt is difficult or not depends on the size and
the weight of the voice. For a very light voice such as Robin or Mesple or
Pons, these notes are very easy, but in general, they tend to have not much
body and the volume is generally small. For big voices like Sutherland or
the young Callas, this feat is much more difficult, due to the size and the
weight of the voice itself. But the effect is much more electrifying.
There are live recordings of Callas in Mexico City singing Aida where she
sings an E flat and drowns out all the soloists (including the huge voiced
Del Monaco and Dominguez), the whole chorus, and the big orchestra. The
audience naturally goes berserk. I doubt that an E flat, or even an A flat
from a small voice such as Robin would have caused the same reaction. And
I myself heard Sutherland sing E flats and D naturals that filled the
auditorium and shook your brains. And naturally, I applauded till my hands
blistered.
So for the singers who tend to sing the most spectacular E flats, the note
is somewhat difficult, but there's the excitement of someone on a highwire
without a net. The canary singers can sing all the high notes they want,
but the effect is never the same.
S.
Michael Black
Shahrdad wrote:
Your points are well taken, but I have to disagree. Just because a
voice is big does not necessarily mean that those high notes are more
difficult. Granted, the lighter voices are generally able to go higher,
but that does not mean it's any easier for them to sing one note or the
other. For my own experience, I'd rather sing high B's and B flats,
than A flats, Gs, and F sharps.
--
Michael Black's Opera House-------http://www.stairway.bc.ca/bjorling/
Youngstown Opera Guild------------http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2088/
Jussi Rules!!!
CHERYL-LEE E CE CAMPBELL
In article <01bcaa9e$9a2fa660$544496cf@ultracomp>,
Shahrdad <Shah...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>As for whether an E flat in alt is difficult or not depends on the size and
>the weight of the voice. For a very light voice such as Robin or Mesple or
>Pons, these notes are very easy, but in general, they tend to have not much
>body and the volume is generally small. For big voices like Sutherland or
>the young Callas, this feat is much more difficult, due to the size and the
>weight of the voice itself. But the effect is much more electrifying.
<snip>
>So for the singers who tend to sing the most spectacular E flats, the note
>is somewhat difficult, but there's the excitement of someone on a highwire
>without a net. The canary singers can sing all the high notes they want,
>but the effect is never the same.
>
>S.
I think that perhaps this is a matter of personal preference. Personally,
I much prefer the way "canary" singers approach the higher notes. With a
few (very few) exceptions, I find bigger voices screechy when they try to
sing up that high, not "spectacular" at all, and that in many cases, they
should stick to the lower repertoire. I think a pure, "easy" sort
of tone up there is usually what is needed, unless the context is one of
say, a scream. As I said though, this is not always true of larger voices
and the preference is definitely just a personal opinion.
Squirrel
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser
On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Michael Black wrote:
<<<snip>>>
> other. For my own experience, I'd rather sing high B's and B flats,
> than A flats, Gs, and F sharps.
I don't understand, Michael. Why do you find the higher notes easier?
WW
Team OS/2 Cincinnati & PROUD OF IT!
(and Cincinnati Opera subscriber & PROUD OF IT!)
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser
On 15 Aug 1997, Neal Goren wrote:
> Dessay is a coloratura soprano, and coloratura voices sit much higher than
> lyric sopranos like Esham. Dessay sings higher than any soprano since Mado
> Robin (actually those are A flats unless the aria is transposed down), and
> with lovely tone to boot. For a lyric soprano a E flat is very high indeed
> and Esham is indeed praiseworthy. You probably know that she started her
> career as a mezzo, further proof that her voice sits more in the middle.
Are you kidding? Do you mean A an octave ABOVE the staff?
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser
On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, paolo wrote:
<<<snip>>>
> I go bonkers over voices like Faith's. Lyric, to be sure, but I once
> heard her drown out the orchestra as Pamina! I've been a fan of hers
> since I was a little kid and she used to sing in my church. I remember
I first encountered her in that role in Carmen some jackass called a "bit
part" on another thread in this news group. That was in a movie with a
little known guy whose first name is Placido & whose last name begins with
D. She sang a Juliette here to Richard Leech's Romeo in Gounod's opera
about 4 or 5 seasons ago. I remember being awfully envious of Mr. L. in
that bedroom scene . . . . . . . She is definitely on my short list of
fabulous babes.
Shahrdad
Michael Black <bjoe...@cyberdude.com> wrote in article
<33F64E1C...@cyberdude.com>...
> Your points are well taken, but I have to disagree. Just because a
> voice is big does not necessarily mean that those high notes are more
> difficult. Granted, the lighter voices are generally able to go higher,
> but that does not mean it's any easier for them to sing one note or the
> other. For my own experience, I'd rather sing high B's and B flats,
> than A flats, Gs, and F sharps.
>
Sounds like you got a "wolf" in your voice, which is a string-instrument
term for when a few notes in the middle of the scale just don't want to
sound very easily. I used to have the same thing on the middle C and D,
but once in my thirties, they went away. I think as you age and your voice
matures, you'll find that you'll be able to sing those notes much more
easily than you can now at your young age.
But as far as the point about the high notes, I don't think they were easy
for even some like Sutherland who probably had the most spectacular notes
above high C. She admitted to have been scared to death of the high F, and
she was even nervous about an E and sometimes Eflat. And then there are
light voiced singers like Beverly Hoch where you can hear the voice just
dying to go above high C. Of course, these are generalizations, but
overall, for a big voice to sustain those extreme high notes is more
difficult.
Michael Black
Shahrdad wrote:
> Sounds like you got a "wolf" in your voice, which is a
> string-instrument
> term for when a few notes in the middle of the scale just don't want
> to
> sound very easily. I used to have the same thing on the middle C and
> D,
> but once in my thirties, they went away. I think as you age and your
> voice
> matures, you'll find that you'll be able to sing those notes much more
>
> easily than you can now at your young age.
>
> But as far as the point about the high notes, I don't think they were
> easy
> for even some like Sutherland who probably had the most spectacular
> notes
> above high C. She admitted to have been scared to death of the high
> F, and
> she was even nervous about an E and sometimes Eflat. And then there
> are
> light voiced singers like Beverly Hoch where you can hear the voice
> just
> dying to go above high C. Of course, these are generalizations, but
> overall, for a big voice to sustain those extreme high notes is more
> difficult.
Well, it seems you may be touching on tessitura. As I said in a
response to WW, a lot has to do with tessitura. You may look at a Verdi
aria with a high C and a Donizetti aria with a high C. Which is
easier? Well, one must also look at the tessitura. More likely than
not, the tessitura in the Donizetti aria is higher than that of the
Verdi aria, hence probably making that high C in the Donizetti aria more
difficult. Of course, a lot has to depend on how it's approached as
well.
And you also hit on something that I'd like to respond to. You said
that Sutherland was scared of the high E. That in a nutshell is what
plagues most of us singers when it comes to high notes. It's the FEAR
factor. We know deep down inside, for the most part, that we can sing
those high notes just fine. But when you add the fear factor in, it
tends to make those high notes more difficult. We're afraid that we're
not going to make it and crack. And although, EVERY singer is guilty of
cracking, we still don't like it and are usually very depressed
afterwards when it happens, especially if it happens in a performance.
But usually, cracking doesn't happen that often to a singer singing the
right rep. and using a solid technique. That be the case, we're still
afraid of missing that note, because often times, a single performance
is based entirely on whether or not a singer hits that pinnacle high
note. Unfortunate as that may be, that is usually the case.
James Jorden
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser wrote:
>
> Are you kidding? Do you mean [Mado Robin sang] A an octave ABOVE the staff?
Uh huh. She even recorded some selections that included these
statospheric notes. The example I have on the CD player at the moment
is Lyric Distribution's "Great Soprano Cabalettas" in which Mme. Robin
interpolates a B-flat above high C into "Spargi d'amaro pianto" from
"Lucia".
On one of Mike Richter's totally excellent CD-ROMs soprano Erna Sack
touches the C above high C. Totally bizarre!
--
james jorden
jjo...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.anaserve.com/~parterre
"I'm a great believer in vulgarity. All we need is a splash of bad
taste. NO taste is what I'm against."
--- Diana Vreeland
Shahrdad
Michael said
> Well, F sharp and G are right there in my passaggion, which is the
> transition area from middle voice into head voice. This is the area of
> the voice that gives a lot of people problems. A flat is difficult for
> me only on open vowels such as "oh" and "ah".
>
Well Michael, you're still just a proverbial baby. Your voice won't fall
into place till you're well into your thirties, and then the passagio
somehow irons itself out too. Just be patient, and it will happen. It's
pretty amazing, and fun.
mdc...@ix.netcom.com
An e flat is much easier to sing as a descending scale tone than an
ascending one....don't even get me started on arpeggios! Talk about
context.... ;)
MDC
Michael Black
Bill "Wild Willy" Kredentser wrote:
> I don't understand, Michael. Why do you find the higher notes easier?
Well, F sharp and G are right there in my passaggion, which is the
transition area from middle voice into head voice. This is the area of
the voice that gives a lot of people problems. A flat is difficult for
me only on open vowels such as "oh" and "ah". It's hard to explain, but
I think it has to do with more of a personal nature. The high notes
have always come easy for me. That being said, I don't see myself
singing Rossini or a lot of Donizetti anytime soon. Once again, these
roles don't necessarily have anything to do with range, although Rossini
sure seems to like to throw in some stratospheric high notes, but more
or less with the tessitura. They lie very high in the passaggion.
However, if orchestras were to play at Rossini's and Donizetti's pitch,
it would be much more manageable.
James Jorden
Michael Black wrote:
> You said
> that Sutherland was scared of the high E. That in a nutshell is what
> plagues most of us singers when it comes to high notes. It's the FEAR
> factor. We know deep down inside, for the most part, that we can sing
> those high notes just fine. But when you add the fear factor in, it
> tends to make those high notes more difficult. We're afraid that we're
> not going to make it and crack.
There's an excellent example of this "fear factor" on the Callas "Dallas
Rehearsal" CD from GALA. La Callas was recorded (without her knowledge)
in an orchestra rehearsal, and, free of the pressure of performance,
lets loose with what must be the best high E-flat she *ever* sang at the
end of the "Puritani" aria.
paolo
James Jorden wrote:
> On one of Mike Richter's totally excellent CD-ROMs soprano Erna Sack
> touches the C above high C. Totally bizarre!
> _____
In high school I was employed as an accompanist for vocal and
instrumental students, and remember very well a young soprano from
Chicago, one Miss Wendy Dawes, who could hit a good sounding c above
high c (she could also make sounds above that but they degenerated into
sounds that called all of the dogs on campus!). She had the worst case
of nerves and stage fright imaginable and though she was a good student,
and I enjoyed her rehearsals she refused to take part in recitals and
was even too frightened to sing in a choir because people standing next
to her would hear her! I don't know why she sang, but I'm glad I got to
accompany and hear her. Her voice teacher, her boyfriend and myself
were about the only people she'd sing in front of. Weird, huh?
Paolo.
il Doge
Shahrdad wrote:
>
> Michael said
>
> > Well, F sharp and G are right there in my passaggion, which is the
> > transition area from middle voice into head voice. This is the area of
> > the voice that gives a lot of people problems. A flat is difficult for
> > me only on open vowels such as "oh" and "ah".
> >
>
> into place till you're well into your thirties, and then the passagio
> somehow irons itself out too. Just be patient, and it will happen. It's
> pretty amazing, and fun.
You make it sound like something that happens all by itself.
Believe me, it he doesn't continue working with it, even by
the time he's 50, he'll still have the same problems.
--
Dal