Great Lieder Singers of the 20th Century
Celia A. Sgroi
of the great Lieder singers of the 20th century, by which I mean those who
had the greatest impact on the art form, whether I happen to enjoy
listening to them or not. BTW, the order of the list is more chronological
than anything else.
Elena Gerhardt
Lotte Lehmann
Alexander Kipnis
Gerhard Huesch
Karl Erb
Elisabeth Schumann
Heinrich Schlusnus
Hans Hotter
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
Comments are welcome, of course.
Celia A. Sgroi
State University of New York
College at Oswego
sg...@oswego.edu
Matthew B. Tepper
of Gerhardt and Erb. And I *really* want to hear more of Schlusnus!
In article <FEM5w...@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, sg...@news.oswego.edu
pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
--
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Schumann recital.
==G/P Dave
MD
Schreier. His Liederabends in Europe were a hot ticket for years, especially
when he sang Schumann or Schubert. The only time in my LIFE I've ever heard a
song cycle interrupted by an audience was in Vienna in 1973, when the audience
burst into applause after his singing of "Mondnacht" in the Schumann
'Liederkreis'... you couldn't do anything else... it was absolute vocal
perfection. And this was in VIENNA, mind you... not Dayton, Ohio.....
Breathtaking...
Jerel M. Zoltick
MD wrote in message <378641BC...@isomedia.com>...
Stephen Goldberg
Stephen Goldberg
Indianapolis Opera
Matthew B. Tepper
David Shengold
I trust by your choices you mean the subject line literally, I.e. singers
of German lieder. Certainly there are a raft of great singers of art songs
(Tourel, Simoneau, Schipa, Valletti, Dolukhanova, Pears, Lisitsian, de los
Angeles, Bernac, Souzay, Gramm, Curtin, de Gaetani, etc.) who are
principally associated with another repertory, though some of them
programmed some lieder with great success as well.
What about Elly Ameling? Aksel Schiotz? Arleen Auger? And I heard a Schreier
Beethoven/Schumann recital in San Jose CA (!) that remains among my greatest
of all concert experiences.
Three of the most influential touring recitalists in the early part of the
century were Marcella Sembrich (one of the first opera singers to do what we
would call "serious" lieder programs), David Bispham and Julia Culp. To my
mind they deserve higher honors than that archfraud Elena Gerhardt, though
her disastrous influence is undeniable. To me she is a self-mythologizing
High Priestess figure on the order of Wanda Landowska and Nina Koshetz, and
while I get some pleasure from certain of their records, I get none at all
from Gerhardt's, and wonder if anyone else would had they not been told by
generations of Walter Legges that she was A (The?) Great Lieder Singer.
Nice to think about this repertory, which I love.
David Shengold
----------
In article <FEM5w...@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, sg...@news.oswego.edu (Celia A.
MD
> Add Janet Baker. Victoria De Los Angeles.....
Well here we get into the usual apples/oranges discussion of whether one is
moved by one singer over another. I think Janet Baker is one of the great
artists of all time. Her Gluck, Monteverdi, Mahler and Elgar are just
sublime. I just have never felt that she is at her best in recital
repertoire with piano... I always get the feeling of an opera/concert singer
taking a day off by doing some lieder and chansons..... I just don't put her
in the same class as Lehmann or Dieskau or Hotter in terms of the total
investment in the poetry and the stylistic "rightness" for lieder. I also
find her French chanson singing mannered.... very musical and every note in
place, but just not "right" somehow... And again, I adore her... I just think
she's untouchable in early music and English song and not in the same leagues
as the ones mentioned.
de los Angeles in Spanish song is perfectly charming. Her lieder and chanson
work has always been marred by her imperfect technique and her poor ear for
German, IMHO. I winced when I heard her sing a lieder recital in Vienna, and
she only JUST redeemed herself by singing Falla, Turina and Granados at the
end.
When Lehmann sings, you can literally visualize the story she's telling, with
Dieskau, one gets exquisite musicianship and virtually flawless technique,
and Hotter... well you get Hotter.... not the best voice or technique, but it
all falls together somehow.... especially in music with tragic or nostalgic
themes, he's well nigh unbeatable.
One could argue that they couldn't hold their own in Spanish against de los
Angeles or against Baker in Elijah, and I would concede the point. But if
we're strictly talking about German lieder, I don't think either artist is in
the top 20, though they are admirable in many ways... there's just too much
competition!
Rex Tremenda
Haefliger, and perhaps Elly Ameling.
Celia A. Sgroi <sg...@news.oswego.edu> wrote in message
news:FEM5w...@oswego.Oswego.EDU...
Wj598
>Schreier. His Liederabends in Europe were a hot ticket for years, especially
>when he sang Schumann or Schubert.
Guten Tag!
WELL, of course you are right, but as you know there always music lovers who
don`t like some singers for different reasons. I have to confess that Schreier
was/is a singer who(m?) I`m always found boaring, really boaring always.Maybe
to the backgound of finding him soooooooo boaring belongs his very naive way of
singing the Lieder of Schumann and Schubert like many adults did it to/for
their children with German Volkslieder after WW II. I am part of that second
genaration after the war who never trust that "naivity" of my parents
generation any more.(and Schreier) Another singer (who was the most popular
Lieder singer in Germany, much more popular then DFD, was Hermann Prey). I am
not the only one who had problems with his way of singing too, because his
priority was emotion in singing Lieder. Like "naivity" this seemed to me too
"onesided". (for my taste too "schmaltzy". Dieskau was the RIGHT one, he was
able to differenciate in many ways BUT "he couldn`t stop singing. His later
"Winterreise" with Barenboim and Murray Perrahia" were too late. After he left,
there are suddenly a whole dozen of wonderfull German Lieder singer.
>>
>> Given all the interest in end-of-the-century list-making, I propose a list
>> of the great Lieder singers of the 20th century, by which I mean those who
>> had the greatest impact on the art form, whether I happen to enjoy
>> listening to them or not. BTW, the order of the list is more chronological
>> than anything else.
>>
>> Elena Gerhardt
>> Lotte Lehmann
>> Alexander Kipnis
>> Gerhard Huesch
>> Karl Erb
>> Elisabeth Schumann
>> Heinrich Schlusnus
>> Hans Hotter
>> Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
>> Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
>>
>> Comments are welcome, of course. <<
Wonderfull choice, I agree totally.
My favorits are also Kathleen Ferrier, and Julius Patzak. Baker, Ludwig and
Gerard Souzay following behind them only a liitle bit.
"Liebeslieder Walzer" by Brahms from the Edinghburgh Festival with
Ferrier/Patzak and Bruno Walter at (on?) the piano is the very best I ever
heard. I have to mention two tenors from England and Denmark whose
"Dichterliebe" are the very BEST, Axel Schiotz and Peter Pears. Especially
Schiotz has to be in my TOP TEN .
Last not least I would like to mention Mathias Goerne of the younger Generation
because I was impressed by his Winterreise more then by Dieskaus, Prey`s
Wunderlich`s and Pear`s
(heard them all LIVE with "Winterreise")
Last not least I wanne suggest to hear Henry Plunket Green with "Leiermann"
from 1937, at the age of 69. It`s greatt irony that an older
irish singer sang the most touching
"Hurdy-gurdy man" in English (EMI 5661502
(2 CD Lieder on Record 1898-1952, SCHUBERT, vol I )
Best.................wolf(j)
Terrymelin
Terry Ellsworth
TomKauf2
his Loewe Lieder).
Don't know how you feel about the inclusion of the wonderful Italian art songs
by Tosti (Actually, I have always preferred Italian music to German--De
gustibus), or even where Italian art songs begin, and Neapolitan popular songs
end--but if we were to include such a broader definition of Lieder, then we can
get some of the greatest singers of the century: Caruso, Schipa, Lauri-Volpi,
Fiorello Giraud, Piccaluga, and others.
Cheers
Tom
Benjamin Maso
Celia A. Sgroi wrote in message ...
>Given all the interest in end-of-the-century list-making, I propose a list
>of the great Lieder singers of the 20th century, by which I mean those who
>had the greatest impact on the art form, whether I happen to enjoy
>listening to them or not. BTW, the order of the list is more chronological
>than anything else.
>
> Elena Gerhardt
> Lotte Lehmann
> Alexander Kipnis
> Gerhard Huesch
> Karl Erb
> Elisabeth Schumann
> Heinrich Schlusnus
> Hans Hotter
> Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
> Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
>
>Comments are welcome, of course.
>
Historically I think it should begin with two great pioniers: the Polish
soprano Marcella Sembrich (1858-1935) and the Dutch baritone Johan
Messchaert (1857-1922)
Sembrich was probably the first famous opera singer who gave Lieder
recitals everywhere. Sometimes she acompanied herself on the piano. She left
a few Lieder recordings.
Messchaert didn't make recordings (as far as I know), but there are
several reports about his performances and DFD considered him as his great
predecessor. About ten years ago I made a study of the musical life in
Amsterdam in the 1880's and 1890's and read a lot of reviews of Messchaert's
recitals, which gave a good idea about how revolutionary Liederrecitals were
at that time ("Messchaert amazed the audience singing all the twenty songs
of Schubert's Die Schoene Muellerin..." "It were especially `Morgengruss',
`Mein' and `Der Jaeger' which received much applause...", etc.
Another famous Dutch Lieder in the first quarter of the century was Julia
Culp (1880-1970). She made a large number of aucoustical and some electrical
recordings (Frauenliebe und -lebe, alas). Purely vocally she was a better
singer than Gerhardt, and paid more attention to te music and less to the
words than her contemporary.
Other singers who might be included as having rather much impact on the
history of Lieder singing are Gerard Souzay, Peter Schreier and perhaps
Brigitte Fassbaender. It's difficult to make a choice from the new
generations: there are very good Lieder singers (Baer, Quasthoff, Goerne,
Holzmaier, etc.,etc.) but I don't think any of them is meeting the standards
to be included on the list.
Benjo Maso
Preferred Customer
ended about 1960. On the contrary, I think that the 'modern' school of
lieder singing began at that point, and that --- despite the undeniable
greatness of DFD --- the strategy of explosive consonants and exaggerated
tone colour contrasts has, fortunately, been replaced but a less
condescending approach.
What I call modern lieder singing --- with tonal purity and a deep respect
for the text, without succumbing to either operatic histrionics or
miniaturization --- began with Janet Baker, and she is the exemplar of
greatness in lieder singing IMHO in the second half of the century.
Matthias Goerne is perhaps the most successful proponent of this 'style'
today.
Preferred Customer
Implicit in your analysis is that native speakers are normative in lieder;
Janet Baker has a special place (many special positions in fact) in
effectuating an internationalization of great lieder interpretation. As an
example, her Liederkreis Op 39 is, song for song, far greater IMHO than
DFD's because her naturalness of approach is at one with both Schumann and
Eichendorff. DFD, at points, is perilously close to a Halloweenish
cariacture of German romanticism --- the modern German school (Goerne, Genz)
has abandoned this rather antique approach. Sadly, for me, I have
difficulty listening to the whining voice of Schreier with any pleasure.
MD wrote in message <37866264...@isomedia.com>...
Arkel
history of Lieder singing are Gerard Souzay, Peter Schreier and perhaps
Brigitte Fassbaender.>>
I recently had the rather fun experience of finding in a filing cabinet drawer
at my church a cassette tape of Fassbaender doing a complete Winterreise, with
a cold, at a concert in the church auditorium in 1987. A fascinating thing to
happen on-- I would never do anything with it that I shouldn't, but I couldn't
resist taking it home to listen! Sort of like a private performance at this
point-- one that nobody else will hear but me. Haven't heard it all yet; the
intonation is rather wayward but she DID have a cold-- she makes a rather
charming announcement about it at the beginning of the performance.
Hemidemi
Wolf. Also Herbert Jansen, a great and underappreciated artist. Dieskau feels
that Elisabeth Grummer was the finest Female Lieder singer in his time. this
opinion was expressed in his autobiography "Reverberations"
John Lynch
First Half of the 20th Century." No one after DFD?
"Celia A. Sgroi" wrote:
> Given all the interest in end-of-the-century list-making, I propose a list
> of the great Lieder singers of the 20th century, by which I mean those who
> had the greatest impact on the art form, whether I happen to enjoy
> listening to them or not. BTW, the order of the list is more chronological
> than anything else.
>
> Elena Gerhardt
> Lotte Lehmann
> Alexander Kipnis
> Gerhard Huesch
> Karl Erb
> Elisabeth Schumann
> Heinrich Schlusnus
> Hans Hotter
> Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
> Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
>
> Comments are welcome, of course.
>
> Celia A. Sgroi
> State University of New York
> College at Oswego
> sg...@oswego.edu
--
John Lynch
Matthew B. Tepper
the real thing, even in the Lieder field. Remember when Olaf Bär was
being promoted almost as though he were the successor to DFD?
In article <37876017...@macconnect.com>, jly...@macconnect.com
pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
--
Celia A. Sgroi
> It strikes me that your list should be titled "Great Lieder Singsrs of
> the First Half of the 20th Century." No one after DFD?
There have been a lot of fine Lieder singers since DFD, but no "great"
ones in the sense that they exerted influence on the art form comparable
to those I listed. IMHO, of course. And can you really call DFD "the first
half of the 20th century," when his prime as a singer lasted at least
until 1970?
If you want me to list my *favorite* Lieder singers, the list would look
rather different from the one I posted originally, and it would include
several "post-DFD" singers, such as Peter Schreier, Brigitte Fassbaender,
and Janet Baker, not to mention DFD-contemporary Gerard Souzay. And there
are a number of young Lieder singers whom I enjoy listening to, such as
Roman Trekel, Stephan Genz, Juliane Banse, Thomas Quasthoff, Dietrich
Henschel, Christian Elsner, and Christine Schaefer. But I think it's
far too early to tell whether any of those singers will turn out to be
great in the sense I meant originally. Time will tell.
Tag Gallagher
David Shengold
Only if one adds several hundred others of a similar or superior level of
achievement, such as Auger, Mathis, Donath, Valente, Popp, Bonney, Lott,
Rodgers, Soederstroem, Seefried, Upshaw, Berger, Sayao, Raskin and Danco, to
name fifteen other lyric sopranos just as a start.
David Shengold
----------
In article <378B7862...@sprynet.com>, Tag Gallagher <t...@sprynet.com>
wrote: