Chants d'Auvergne - Language?
ktk...@crosslink.net
In Canteloube's settings of the Chants d'Auvergne (Songs of the Auvergne -
folk songs collected from the Auvergne region of France), what language are
the songs in?
Obviously, you would expect them to be French, and they sound like French.
However, in liner notes from two recordings of some of the songs, I have a
multiple-language simultaneous translation of the texts, in English, German,
and two very similar, but obviously distinct, languages which appear to be
French. (The recordings are Kiri Te Kanawa's "Chants d'Auvergne vol. II"
and the one-volume incomplete set by Dawn Upshaw (who is breathtaking and,
for my money, better than Te Kanawa where they cover the same material).)
The translations in both sets of liner notes are identical in all four
languages, making it obvious they are from the same source; the Te Kanawa
disc gives the translator as "Heugel", while the Upshaw disc credits "the
kind permission of Decca records".
Of the four versions of the text given in these notes, the two French-like
versions differ slightly. It should be obvious that I do not speak French;
my guess is that the songs themselves are in an older version of the
language or in a regional dialect, while the other set of notes is a
translation into modern French - but as I say, I am a very incompetent judge
of what is real French. The actual lyrics, as sung by both artists, are in
what I would call the "older" or regional dialect; the other three versions
of the text (English, German, and the "other French") are obviously
translations.
Below, I have two verses from one of the songs, in the original text, the
translated "French" text, and the translated English text. The differences
between the two French-like texts are characteristic of the differences
found in these translations throughout the cycle. Could someone please
identify the two French-like languages below, both the original and the
translation, and explain what their relationship is? Is the original text a
regional dialect? Is it so different that other French cannot understand
it? Any other comments? Thanks so much.
Kevin T. Keith
ktk...@crosslink.net
TRANSLATIONS:
(diacritical marks omitted - as with most of the songs, the original text
has very many of them, while the "other French" translation has few)
(1) (2)
[Original text - as sung] [Translation - the "other French"]
PASTOURELLE PASTOURELLE
E' passo de' dessai! Ah! viens aupres de moi!
E' passo dellai l'aio! Et passe la riviere!
Bendras olpres de ieu, Viens donc de ce cote',
Que d'ofaire parloren, Car d'affaires nous parlerons,
E' lou restan deljiour Et le restant do jour
N'en parloren d'amour! Nous parlerons d'amour!
Ne' pouodi pas passa! Mais je ne puis passer!
Couci bouos qui' ieu passi? Comment pourrais-je faire?
N'ai pas de pount d'arcados Je n'ai pas de bateau
E'n ai pas de' bateu, Ni de pont pour passer l'eau;
Ni mai de' pastourel Ne meme de berger
Que' me' siasco fidel! Qui m'aime fidelement!
(3)
[translation - English]
PASTORALE
Oh, come here to me!
COme across the river!
Come to this side,
and we shall toak of serious things,
and then for the rest of the day
we shall talk about love!
But I cannot get across!
Whatever shall I do?
I have no boat,
nor bridge to cross the water;
nor even a shepherd
to love me faithfully!
Keith A. Bisaillon
>
> In Canteloube's settings of the Chants d'Auvergne (Songs of the Auvergne -
> folk songs collected from the Auvergne region of France), what language are
> the songs in?
>
I believe it is in Langue d'oc, which is "the Romance language of
medieval northern France: developed into modern Provencal"
Laters,
Keith
Paul Phillips
south-central region of France corresponding to the depts of Puy-de-Dome
and Cantal. Like Bela Bartok in Hungary (and other regions of Eastern
Europe) and other early 20th composers, Joseph Canteloube collected folk
songs of his native country. He collected them with the words in the
native Auvergnese dialect, harmonized them, and published them in 5 series
of collections published from 1923-1955 for voice and piano, and also in
versions for voice and chamber orchestra. Heugel was the publisher, not
the translator.
The text of each song is printed in Auvergnese in the sheet music, with a
French singing translation by Canteloube printed below the Auvergnese text
in italics and a slightly smaller font size. Below each title in the
sheet music, Canteloube identifies where he collected each song. For
example, the 1st song in Series I, "La Pastoura als Camps," is identified
as "Chant populaire de Quercy, recueilli a Bagnac (Lot)" - "popular song
of Quercy, collected at Bagnac (in the Lot region)".
At the beginning of each volume of songs, Canteloube provides a note on
pronunciation of the dialect, with 15 specific explanations of how a
French speaker should pronounce Auvergnese. (All this is written only in
French.) To my admittedly non-expert ear in French regional dialects,
Auvergnese sounds like a cross between French and Portuguese, although a
glance at the map reveals that Auvergne is distant even from the border
with Spain and quite removed from Portugal. I'd be interested to get a
more detailed explanation of the dialect from a real specialist in
French. The first London recording of Kiri te Kanawa singing the Songs of
the Auvergne with Jeffrey Tate and the English Chamber Orchestra
acknowledges a Professor Jean Fay for his assistance with the
pronunciation of the dialect.
Of the text you typed out, version (1) below is Auvergnese, while version
(2) is standard French. While there are many similar words between the
dialect and standard French, I expect that most French speakers would have
only a vague sense of the meaning without an actual translation from
Auvergnese to standard French.
Paul Phillips
Didier Pelat
group.
The other french-like language is today's french, which comes largely from the
"langue d'oil" group.
France was once divided in two (as far as the language was concerned) :
northern France was speaking languages from the "langue d'oil" group ; while
southern france was speaking from the "langue d'oc" group. (The celtic britanny
was a country of his own at that time.)
Today's regional language still reflect this old linguistic frontier.
Oil and Oc mean Yes.
D. Pelat
Thomas T. Field
is today usually called Occitan. Occitan and French are the two
languages that emerged from the "langue d'oc" / "langue d'oil" division
of Latin in Gaul. Occitan has had little official recognition since the
Renaissance, though it was the language of the troubadours and the
culture of courtly love that they originated. We used to call the
language "Provencal," but that term is more and more reserved for the
dialect of Occitan that is spoken in Provence.
Occitan dialects include Auvergnat (the one in which these song texts
are written) Limousin, Gascon, Languedocian, Provencal, and Alpine (or
Gavot). They differ quite a bit, since there was no overall process of
standardization for many centuries. They are nearly all closer to
Catalan than they are to French.
chriska...@gmail.com
> In Canteloube's settings of the Chants d'Auvergne (Songs of the Auvergne -
> folk songs collected from the Auvergne region of France), what language are
> the songs in?
>
Aurias un pount d'arcados, aurias un pastourel
Qué té serio fidèl è máï dsjusqu'al toumbel!
> [translation - English]
>
> PASTORALE
>
> Oh, come here to me!
> COme across the river!
> Come to this side,
> and we shall toak of serious things,
> and then for the rest of the day
> we shall talk about love!
>
> But I cannot get across!
> Whatever shall I do?
> I have no boat,
> nor bridge to cross the water;
> nor even a shepherd
> to love me faithfully!
You would have an arched bridge,
You would have a shepherd lad faithful to you unto the grave!"
The booklet with "Songs of the Auvergne" sung by Jill Gomez, and accompanied by Vernon Handley and The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic adds three lines omitted from your "Pastourelle." I've taken the liberty of adding them, along with the English translation. The lines quote a churlish shepherd responding to Pastourelle's lament that she can't cross the river: she'd get across soon enough, if only she were pretty. Does he get to pick and choose because he's a heart-throb, or just being a guy?