Soprano leggero
Jayben
honest and honorable man.Since these e-mails were private,I will not
disclose their contents to the group at large.The problem I had with
Premiere Opera has been resolved and I want only to put thoughts of
that behind me and return to the primary reason why I wanted to join
your group.That was simply to learn more about opera from people more
knowledgeable than me.
My first question:When reading the cast of singers on a recording of
Giordano's Fedora I found two sopranos listed.One was designated as a
soprano and the other was called a soprano leggero.Can someone explain
to me the difference? I assume leggero to be an Italian term as are so
many of the descriptive terms used in opera.
As an old poetry lover I have some insight into the difference between
lyric and dramatic as those words are used in reference to sopranos.I
also think I can recognize coloratura when I hear it.Beyond that my
knowledge is a bit shakey.
I usually fall in love with any competent soprano I hear,so it seems
only right that I learn as much as I can about my secret loves.
Jim Benjamin
wkasimer
> My first question:When reading the cast of singers on a recording of
> Giordano's Fedora I found two sopranos listed.One was designated as a
> soprano and the other was called a soprano leggero.Can someone explain
> to me the difference?
Specificity. The term "soprano" is only a very general term to
classify a voice by its basic range and color, but says nothing about
what roles for which the singer is suited. The term "soprano leggero"
implies a light, bright, flexible soprano voice suited to youthful or
"soubrette" roles.
In other words, "soprano" is a term that a singer would apply to
herself; "soprano leggero" is a terms that a composer might use to
indicate the type of voice that he or she has in mind for a specific
role.
Hope that this helps.
Bill
Jayben
wrote:
Thanks a lot,Bill.You made the meaning very clear to me.All I have to
do now is to remember what you said.Actually I am getting old and my
memory is just a distant memory.
Do you happen to have seen the DVD of Werther with Alvarez and
Garanca?
I have a question there too: Garanca is a mezzo soprano (and I love
her)but I thought that the role of Charlotte was written for a full
soprano.Could you make a few comments about the possible
interchangeability of the two classes of soprano?
Jim
REG
friend, and I've seen a number of times people come out of nowhere with
slights towards him or his work and I made the wrong assumption about your
comments, in part because I could see you hadn't been posting much, and a
lot of times one gets that kind of trolling. Again, I was wrong in not
giving you the benefit of the doubt (it is not the first time, though :) )
and I apologize.
I am very interested in where you saw the leggiero designation. I am not
that familiar with the opera, but looking at a couple of internet sites, I
didn't see the second soprano listed that way. Was this in a cast list, or a
recording? I'd also be curious which one.
I think Bill is right in the distinction, that's made - I wouldn't always
think of it as a younger singer, or a brighter voice. I think the key is
some ability to sing with flexibility (ie some fioritura), although perhaps
less than a 'coloratura', which is itself an interesting designation.
Best
Richard
"Jayben" <jben...@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hg4423h25ar3sa361...@4ax.com...
Jayben
wrote:
I accept your apology and I do understand that,because of past
experiences, you were right to have suspicions.You must forgive me for
also having suspicions concerning your friend Ed Rosen.I no longer
believe that he would try to take advantage of anyone.I think mutual
apologies should be accepted all around.
My question about the leggero soprano was prompted by my reading of
the cast list on the back of a CD recording.
It is a Hungaraton CD starring Jose Carreras,Eva Marton and the second
soprano who was listed as a soprano leggero was Veronika Kinces.That
is a new name to me.I know nothing of her.I did enjoy the recording
and the singing of both sopranos.I must admit that I could not always
tell them apart but that did not detract from my enjoyment.Another
admission: I don't always know who I am swooning over.I absolutely
adore the soprano voice and almost always choose my CDs or DVDs on the
basis of the soprano.
I have no idea what "fioratura" is, but I wish sincerely that I did.
Jim
Richard Loeb
Fioriture (from "little flowers") is a florid embellishment to a piece of
music . Richard
alanwa...@aol.com
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:35:22 -0400, "REG" <Richer...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >First, I want to also apologize for you for misjudging you. Ed is a personal
> >friend, and I've seen a number of times people come out of nowhere with
> >slights towards him or his work and I made the wrong assumption about your
> >comments, in part because I could see you hadn't been posting much, and a
> >lot of times one gets that kind of trolling. Again, I was wrong in not
> >giving you the benefit of the doubt (it is not the first time, though :) )
> >and I apologize.
>
> >I am very interested in where you saw the leggiero designation. I am not
> >that familiar with the opera, but looking at a couple of internet sites, I
> >didn't see the second soprano listed that way. Was this in a cast list, or a
> >recording? I'd also be curious which one.
>
> >I think Bill is right in the distinction, that's made - I wouldn't always
> >think of it as a younger singer, or a brighter voice. I think the key is
> >some ability to sing with flexibility (ie some fioritura), although perhaps
> >less than a 'coloratura', which is itself an interesting designation.
>
> >Best
> >Richard
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have no idea what she is doing today but Veronika Kinces was fairly
active on the Eastern European circuit in the 70s, 80s and certainly
into the 90s. She made quite a number of appearances at the Hungarian
State Opera, also Poland and also a regular in Bratislava where I
think she made a number of recordings, although recordings are not my
strong point. I believe she also appeared in Spain at least but that
might be wrong.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
L. Credit Where Due T.
wrote:
Including Boheme and Butterfly, both with Peter Dvorsky, IIRC.
>although recordings are not my
> strong point. I believe she also appeared in Spain at least but that
> might be wrong.
As to the OP's question re soprano types, some most noteworthy
examples might be in order:
Leggiero -Berger, Peters, Moffo; and more recently Dessay.
Lyric - De los Angeles, Albanese, Ricciarelli, Freni, and Scotto.
Spinto - Tebaldi, Te Kanawa, L. Price, M. Price, Caballe.
Dramatic - Muzio, Ponselle, Varnay, Traubel, Milanov, Nilsson; and of
late, Millo, Radvanovsky, and Voight.
Best,
LT
alanwa...@aol.com
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Apart from observing you have left out a lot of the Russian girls (!)
of course some can switch can they not or they just change as they get
older?
Irina Maslennikova could switch, I would humbly suggest. Or at least
I heard her do it rather well twice and well past her best (which I
missed but which I believe was considerable, judging by her
recordings).
As in Third Song of Lel or Violetta (what a star on that recording)
but she could go considerably out of that (and into that) at even some
age.
Stephen Jay-Taylor
Margaret Price and Te Kanawa as a spinto !!!!????
Leontyne, for that matter ? [ surely a lyrico-spinto, and then only just ]
Or Montserrat, the living definition of a lyrico-spinto, with coloratura,
but never a spinto tout court.
Voigt a dramatic ?
Hmmmm.
SJT, hmmming
L. Credit Where Due T.
wrote:
> On Apr 15, 9:35?pm, "L. Credit Where Due T." <lnrd_tl...@yahoo.com>
> > > State Opera, also Poland and also a regular in Bratislava where I
> > > think she made a number of recordings,
>
> > Including Boheme and Butterfly, both with Peter Dvorsky, IIRC.
>
> > >although recordings are not my
> > > might be wrong.
>
> > As to the OP's question re soprano types, some most noteworthy
> > examples might be in order:
>
> > Leggiero -Berger, Peters, Moffo; and more recently Dessay.
>
> > Lyric - De los Angeles, Albanese, Ricciarelli, Freni, and Scotto.
>
> > Spinto - Tebaldi, Te Kanawa, L. Price, M. Price, Caballe.
>
> > Dramatic - Muzio, Ponselle, Varnay, Traubel, Milanov, Nilsson; and of
> > late, Millo, Radvanovsky, and Voight.
>
> > Best,
> > LT- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Apart from observing you have left out a lot of the Russian girls (!)
Not intentionally; I'm inordinately fond of them, as most any of the
Russian girls in my neighborhood (ie, approx. between ages 22 and
60+) would attest to.
> of course some can switch can they not or they just change as they get
> older?
Indeed. And there's the overlap-factor to consider, even during a
single career phase, as shown by divas taking on such diverse roles as
Nedda, Desdemona, and Butterfly.
> Irina Maslennikova could switch, I would humbly suggest. Or at least
> I heard her do it rather well twice and well past her best (which I
> missed but which I believe was considerable, judging by her
> recordings).
>
> As in Third Song of Lel or Violetta (what a star on that recording)
> but she could go considerably out of that (and into that) at even some
> age.
I'm becoming more familiar with heretofore unknown (to me) voices,
thanks to the increased availability of European recordings.
> Kind regards,
> Alan M. Watkins-
Best,
LT
L. Credit Where Due T.
Stephen Jay-Taylor wrote:
> Scotto as a lyric ?
I must admit she sometimes sounded more spinto -even dramatic (having
once been a mezzo)- , but at least by repertory, she's been
predominantly a lyric.
> Margaret Price and Te Kanawa as a spinto !!!!????
They each gave that impression, at least, when singing Desdemona.
> Leontyne, for that matter ? [ surely a lyrico-spinto, and >then only just ]
I once considered her a dramatic-soprano, but now feel she, in her
prime, was still at least a spinto, 'weight'-wise.
> Or Montserrat, the living definition of a lyrico-spinto, with coloratura,
> but never a spinto tout court.
OTOH,
'Spinto' and 'lyrico-spinto' are often used interchangeably.
> Voigt a dramatic ?
Definitely! -Whether or not one's *favorite* example, is another
matter.
> Hmmmm.
>
> SJT, hmmming
Best,
LT,
noting that 'hmmming', as an exercise, can be quite effective in vocal
'placement', 'the masque', etc.
alanwa...@aol.com
includes her singing with an Alfred, a bloke by the name of Lemeshev.
The number says it was issued in 1953-54.
Richard Loeb
> > > examples might be in order:
>
> > > Leggiero -Berger, Peters, Moffo; and more recently Dessay.
>
> > > Lyric - De los Angeles, Albanese, Ricciarelli, Freni, and Scotto.
>
> > > Spinto - Tebaldi, Te Kanawa, L. Price, M. Price, Caballe.
>
> > > Dramatic - Muzio, Ponselle, Varnay, Traubel, Milanov, Nilsson; and of
> > > late, Millo, Radvanovsky, and Voight.
>
<
Of course, the original poster should know that not everyone agrees with the
above list - it can be a subjective issue in many cases. Richard
edo...@gmail.com
I don't agree with all of the above, but I'n curious. Where would one
put Netrebko in the above catagories?? I think her voice is much too
big to be a leggiero!
Ed
Stephen Jay-Taylor
Like Sutherland, a vocally ostrich-sized canary..
I assume there's an ostrich-sized canary category, nicht so ?
SJT, still in touch with the crocodile.......
Jayben
subject of classifying the various types of sopranos.It does seem that
those who have the necessary knowledge and experience have varying
opinions on this subject.I am not qualified to offer an opinion and so
I defer to those who are.I thank all of you who jumped in and offered
your thoughts on the subject.I am just trying to get you to teach this
old dog new tricks.
Have any of you heard Elina Garanca in the role of Charlotte in
Massenet's Werther?As one of the gifts I was given on my 76th
birthday,which was on this past March 24th,I was given a check for
$25. Of course I used it to purchase an opera DVD: Werther with
Garanca and Alvarez.I would love to hear the opinion of any who have
one of this opera and this particular singer.
Forgive me if I sometimes sound like a teen-ager who has just made the
wonderful discovery of opera.At this ripe old age I have been lucky
enough to find a new enthusiasm and I often get very excited about
this or that aspect of opera.How priviliged I feel to be able to
appreciate the beauty of all the great voices we have now and have had
in the past.When I watch an opera video,even though I grow misty-eyed
at the inevitable sad ending,I soon feel unusually elated and glad to
be alive.Opera makes me happy.
Thanks for listening.
Jim Benjamin
REG
(or maybe the lyrico-spinto) range as well, based on my hearings of her at
the MET. I know her from art songs, and from her fabulous Countess with the
Paris Opera, but I always heard the voice as potentially much weightier (and
got into a terrible fight with a good friend about it), but I think that at
the end of the day she sounded to me like a lyrico-spinto (if indeed that's
not a contradiction in terms).
As to Netrebko, I am not sure what she is - I think lyric probably covers
it.
Whom would consider exemplars of spintos (vrs. dramatics) among sopranos? I
am curious to know.
"Stephen Jay-Taylor" <sjayt...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:S7mdnWjmUaEdD7_b...@bt.com...
L. Credit Where Due T.
It, like most other perceptions, usually *is* exactly that, - a
subjective issue. The above list is intended merely as a sort of
guideline, based upon my own perceptions,- as a lifelong listener.
L. Credit Where Due T.
That'd almost automatically make her a lyric!
But based on her voice's range and texture - plus her repertory thus
far, I'd have to consider AN a leggiero, albeit a 'big' one. A sort of
latterday Moffo, in looks as well.
> Ed- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Best,
LT
L. Credit Where Due T.
wrote:
> "Where would one put Netrebko in the above catagories??"
>
> Like Sutherland, a vocally ostrich-sized canary..
>
> I assume there's an ostrich-sized canary category, nicht so ?
Ya, so! But only in the Outback regions.... or so I'm told.
> SJT, still in touch with the crocodile.......
When seeing him, please
give my regards to Mr. Dundee! Always loved his flicks!
Best,
LT
L. Credit Where Due T.
> I am glad my post stirred up so much interest and comments on the
> subject of classifying the various types of sopranos.It does seem that
> those who have the necessary knowledge and experience have varying
> opinions on this subject.I am not qualified to offer an opinion and so
> I defer to those who are.I thank all of you who jumped in and offered
> your thoughts on the subject.I am just trying to get you to teach this
> old dog new tricks.
> Have any of you heard Elina Garanca in the role of Charlotte in
> Massenet's Werther?As one of the gifts I was given on my 76th
> birthday,which was on this past March 24th,I was given a check for
> $25. Of course I used it to purchase an opera DVD: Werther with
> Garanca and Alvarez.I would love to hear the opinion of any who have
> one of this opera and this particular singer.
It, as with most Massenet works, is both beautiful and moving!
Garanca sounds as lovely as she looks; Alvarez, already one of the
finest lyric tenors around, keeps improving with each year.
The $25 is well-spent, IMO.
> Forgive me if I sometimes sound like a teen-ager who has just made the
> wonderful discovery of opera.At this ripe old age I have been lucky
> enough to find a new enthusiasm and I often get very excited about
> this or that aspect of opera.How priviliged I feel to be able to
> appreciate the beauty of all the great voices we have now and have had
> in the past.When I watch an opera video,even though I grow misty-eyed
> at the inevitable sad ending,I soon feel unusually elated and glad to
> be alive.Opera makes me happy.
> Thanks for listening.
Thanks for posting! Btw, for a great performance and a happy ending,
get L'Elisir D'Amore with Netrebko and Villazon, with a superbly acted/
sung Belcore of Nucci. Today's Opera at its finest.
> Jim Benjamin
Best,
LT
L. Credit Where Due T.
wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:30?pm, "L. Credit Where Due T." <lnrd_tl...@yahoo.com>
>
> > Not intentionally; I'm inordinately fond of them, as most any of the
> > 60+) would attest to.
>
> > > of course some can switch can they not or they just change as they get
> > > older?
>
> > Indeed. And there's the overlap-factor to consider, even during a
> > single career phase, as shown by divas taking on such diverse roles as
> > Nedda, Desdemona, and Butterfly.
>
> > > I heard her do it rather well twice and well past her best (which I
> > > missed but which I believe was considerable, judging by her
> > > recordings).
>
> > > As in Third Song of Lel or Violetta (what a star on that recording)
> > > but she could go considerably out of that (and into that) at even some
> > > age.
>
> > I'm becoming more familiar with heretofore unknown (to me) voices,
> > thanks to the increased availability of European recordings.
>
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Alan M. Watkins-
>
> > Best,
> > LT
>
> Well, somewhere out there is my lp D1518/19 Parigi, o cara which
> includes her singing with an Alfred, a bloke by the name of Lemeshev.
>
> The number says it was issued in 1953-54.
Sergei Lemeshev, whose recordings I've heard more of than his
Violetta, Maslennikova's, was IMO as outstanding and pure-toned a
lyric tenor as his rival, Kozlovsky, though the latter had a more
'unique' sound; at least appearing to, in the now-ancient recordings.
> Kind regards,
> Alan M. Watkins- Hide quoted text -
Best,
LT,
whose favorite non-Italian-language recording of Traviata remains
Bjoerling/Schymberg's. Perfection inevitably transcends
language-'barriers' - also IMO. :)
Stephen Jay-Taylor
[ in best Robert De Niro voice ] You talking to me ?
Well, first and foremost, Tebaldi, whom I never heard live, but sounds like
a spinto to me on disc, not just because of the scale of the voice, meaning
amplitude, but to do with its usage, with fearless attack. Nina Rautio
struck me as another one, as did Natalya Troitskaya, both of whom I did hear
live. Lisa Gasteen qualifies, for all that she is these days mainly singing
dramatic rep. Voigt, the same, though I've yet to hear her live post-surgery
[ it's funny how her career here stubbornly refuses to take off : the
Barbican can't give tickets away for her forthcoming recital ]. In fact the
only real dramatic voice, as opposed to usage, I can think of belongs to La
Brewer, and possibly Mary Jane Wray, whom I haven't heard - or heard of,
which is ominous - for about three years.
Dreary Kiri was always and only ever a lyric, and not even a full-bodied
one. I heard here in fourteen roles, and though we never got the Elisabeth
de Valois, we got the rest, including Donna Elvira, Pamina, Marguérite,
Micaela, Desdemona, Mimi, Marschallin, Arabella, Madeleine, Tatyana et al.
But anything requiring real spinto resources - which Desdemona doesn't - she
avoided like the plague, so no Amelia much less Aida, no Leonora[s], no
Ariadne, no Salome, no Chrysothemis, no Vitellia, no Tosca and not so much
as a bar of Wagner. I don't agree about M. Price either, who was basically a
fleshier version - vocally and physically - of Janowitz, with that fluting,
silvery German squeeze method up top. Her Norma here was preposterous, and
marked the end of her stage career.
I give up. I'm too knee-deep in Rosinas right now, and all this faching
around is doing my head in...
SJT
L. Credit Where Due T.
wrote:
Same here....
Lest I get irreversibly fached-up, I must get some tea (Bigelow's®;
Oolong, with a twist or two of lime), at once!
> SJT
Jayben
<lnrd_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have the DVD of L'Eliser D'Amore with Gheorghiu and Alagna.I thought
it was a marvelously entertaining production and I had only a very
happy smile on my face at the ending.That wonderful Angela only has to
sing a few notes for me to know who is singing.She and Natalie Dessay
are my two favorite sopranos,although I can be terribly fickle and
will probably be unfaithful and fall in love with the first soprano I
hear this morning.
As soon as my finances allow I will purchase the the DVD with Villazon
and Netrebko.
Jim
Tom White
+ get L'Elisir D'Amore with Netrebko and Villazon, with a superbly acted/
+ sung Belcore of Nucci. Today's Opera at its finest.
Jayben <jben...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
+ I have the DVD of L'Eliser D'Amore with Gheorghiu and Alagna.I thought
+ it was a marvelously entertaining production and I had only a very
+ happy smile on my face at the ending.That wonderful Angela only has to
+ sing a few notes for me to know who is singing.
I've got that Netrebko-Villazon on my to-get list, too. I like the
Met's L'Elisir DVD with Kathleen Battle and some Italian tenor. The
young fellow kept up with Kathleen just fine.
La Donna Mobile
I've got both the Roberto-Angela DVd and the Rolando-Anna, but not
satisfied, I really want a Rolando-Angela version, although I do have a
video clip of them singing the tralalalalala duet from Faenol.
I wrote at enormous length comparing the two DVDs
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/archives/opera/other_composers/lelisir_damore.php
Stephen Jay-Taylor
Dear, dear, dear.
Tsk, tsk.
You mean the "juggling" duet...
SJT
Tom White
+ I've got that Netrebko-Villazon on my to-get list, too. I like the
+ Met's L'Elisir DVD with Kathleen Battle and some Italian tenor. The
+ young fellow kept up with Kathleen just fine.
La Donna Mobile <enidl...@btinternet.com> wrote:
+ I've got both the Roberto-Angela DVd and the Rolando-Anna, but not
+ satisfied, I really want a Rolando-Angela version, although I do have a
+ video clip of them singing the tralalalalala duet from Faenol.
+
+ I wrote at enormous length comparing the two DVDs
+
+ http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/archives/opera/other_composers/lelisir_damore.php
It is a fun opera, and I enjoy Donizetti's sound, too.
In your review you say, "The biggest flaw with Vienna is the relatively
poor miking - or balance between singers and orchestra - which does mar
an otherwise excellent product." Did the imbalance favor the singers
or the orchestra? On the PCM track? The orchestra being a little too
prominent wouldn't bother me.
ljo
<lnrd_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> noting that 'hmmming', as an exercise, can be quite effective in vocal
> 'placement', 'the masque', etc.
>
Kindly enlarge this thought. Use some verbs and adjectives this time.
ljo
"L. Credit Where Due T." <lnrd_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> As to the OP's question re soprano types, some most noteworthy
> examples might be in order:
>
> Leggiero -Berger, Peters, Moffo; and more recently Dessay.
>
> Lyric - De los Angeles, Albanese, Ricciarelli, Freni, and Scotto.
>
> Spinto - Tebaldi, Te Kanawa, L. Price, M. Price, Caballe.
>
> Dramatic - Muzio, Ponselle, Varnay, Traubel, Milanov, Nilsson; and of
> late, Millo, Radvanovsky, and Voight.
>
> Best,
> LT
>
Leggero, isn't it?
L. Credit Where Due T.
On Apr 16, 11:44 am, Tom White <tomina...@bulldogcountry.com> wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2007 17:09:03 -0700, "L. Credit Where Due T."
> + Thanks for posting! Btw, for a great performance and a happy ending,
> + get L'Elisir D'Amore with Netrebko and Villazon, with a superbly acted/
> + sung Belcore of Nucci. Today's Opera at its finest.
>
> Jayben <jbenja...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> + I have the DVD of L'Eliser D'Amore with Gheorghiu and Alagna.I thought
> + it was a marvelously entertaining production and I had only a very
> + happy smile on my face at the ending.That wonderful Angela only has to
> + sing a few notes for me to know who is singing.
>
> I've got that Netrebko-Villazon on my to-get list, too. I like the
> Met's L'Elisir DVD with Kathleen Battle and some Italian tenor. The
> young fellow kept up with Kathleen just fine.
I think I remember that youngster! Good cast all around, with Gino
Quilico, IIRC!
Chronologically between these performances, check out the Alagnas'
video, in which RA gives a 'Harpo Marxian' touch to Nemorino;
Different from anything I've seen before or since - but it works!
Best,
LT
L. Credit Where Due T.
With those two, it's a close match; though IMO Dessay wins out with
sheer cuteness, and personality from within. In the 'L'Elisir',
Alagna steals the show, with his acting and unique interpretation of
the work's supremely lovable hero. The Dulcamara in this performance
(Alaimo) also outmatches his later rival (D'Arcangelo), also by virtue
of acting skills.
> As soon as my finances allow I will purchase the the DVD with Villazon
> and Netrebko.
It's a performance guaranteed to provide years of pleasure.
> Jim
Best,
LT
jimupde
wrote:
> Scotto as a lyric ?
>
>
>
said that she was lyric soprano.......a big juicy lyric, but a lyric
non-the-less. Nothing more, nothing less.
Tom White
+ Met's L'Elisir DVD with Kathleen Battle and some Italian tenor. The
+ young fellow kept up with Kathleen just fine.
L. Credit Where Due T. <lnrd_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
+ I think I remember that youngster! Good cast all around, with Gino
+ Quilico, IIRC!
It had Juan Pons as Belcore and Enzo Dara as Dr. Dulcamara.
Pavarotti, of course, was Nemorino. Kathleen's a tad light
in the volume department, but Luciano didn't blow her away.
They sounded great together.
+ Chronologically between these performances, check out the Alagnas'
+ video, in which RA gives a 'Harpo Marxian' touch to Nemorino;
+ Different from anything I've seen before or since - but it works!
I've got that one, and I like it. My problem is that I've only
got four operas on DVD with Battle, and this L'Elisir the best
of them.
(My goodness! Now that I check, there's another one available for
Region 2 - a Cosi fan Tutte.)
L. Credit Where Due T.
It's difficult to dispute a famed singer's assessment of her own
voice, yet it's always come across to me and to most other listeners
as a spinto, if not a full dramatic sound.
Her own concession, as to 'big (and) juicy', tends to support it;
moreover, a lyric voice *that* big and *that* juicy is what makes for
a spinto (aka 'lyrico-spinto') sound. Were her voice really 'nothing
more' than a lyric, she'd likely have had far less success than she
did in the greatest spinto/dramatic Verdi roles, and as Tosca.
Some singers, for whatever their reasons, like and prefer to
categorize their voices in ways that are at odds with their actual
sounds.
Others, such as Corelli, calling himself a 'romantic/heroic tenor',
and Millo, stating she's 'a dramatic soprano', were right on the
money.
Yet another, Cantor Don Goldberg (radio host on some Opera programs)
calls himself a tenor, though the voice registers as a notably rich
baritone.
A well-known lieder star of recent years, Wolfgang Holzmair, is
classed as a baritone; listen to him (fine sound, in any instance),
and you may think him a tenor.
The late and great Paul Robeson classed his own majestic voice as
'bass-baritone', though -at least for most of his career beyond the
earliest recordings- the voice was clearly a pure basso-sound (check
out his awe-inspiring 'Danny Boy' and excerpts from 'Boris G.' and
'Zauberflote'), virtually defining the term as one of its most classic
examples. He once explained, though, that the 'bass-baritone'
designation allowed a singer to seem 'more varied' in his song-
repertoire, which does make sense from that standpoint. Especially
with today's singers' wanting opera-house directors to consider them
as more-versatile than 'a basso' might seem, regarding suitability for
a greater number of roles.
Best,
LT
L. Credit Where Due T.
> On Apr 16, 11:44 am, Tom White <tomina...@bulldogcountry.com> wrote:
> + I've got that Netrebko-Villazon on my to-get list, too. I like the
> + Met's L'Elisir DVD with Kathleen Battle and some Italian tenor. The
> + young fellow kept up with Kathleen just fine.
>
> + I think I remember that youngster! Good cast all around, with Gino
> + Quilico, IIRC!
>
> It had Juan Pons as Belcore and Enzo Dara as Dr. Dulcamara.
Ah, yes! I'd been recalling another performance of Pav's!
> Pavarotti, of course, was Nemorino. Kathleen's a tad light
> in the volume department, but Luciano didn't blow her away.
> They sounded great together.
Pav did modulate, in consideration of his sometimes light-voiced
leading ladies. Ms. Battle, whatever the stories, on a personal level,
had, and probably has, one of the loveliest leggiero sounds on record;
a great example of tonal purity.
> + Chronologically between these performances, check out the Alagnas'
> + video, in which RA gives a 'Harpo Marxian' touch to Nemorino;
> + Different from anything I've seen before or since - but it works!
>
> I've got that one, and I like it. My problem is that I've only
> got four operas on DVD with Battle, and this L'Elisir the best
> of them.
>
> (My goodness! Now that I check, there's another one available for
> Region 2 - a Cosi fan Tutte.)
There are some videos of her song-rep performances, including those of
Canteloube, IIRC.
Best,
LT
Jayben
<lnrd_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Apr 17, 12:25 am, Tom White <tomina...@bulldogcountry.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 11:44 am, Tom White <tomina...@bulldogcountry.com> wrote:
>> + I've got that Netrebko-Villazon on my to-get list, too. I like the
>> + Met's L'Elisir DVD with Kathleen Battle and some Italian tenor. The
>> + young fellow kept up with Kathleen just fine.
>>
>> L. Credit Where Due T. <lnrd_tl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> + I think I remember that youngster! Good cast all around, with Gino
>> + Quilico, IIRC!
>>
>> It had Juan Pons as Belcore and Enzo Dara as Dr. Dulcamara.
>
>Ah, yes! I'd been recalling another performance of Pav's!
>
>
>> Pavarotti, of course, was Nemorino. Kathleen's a tad light
>> in the volume department, but Luciano didn't blow her away.
>> They sounded great together.
>
>Pav did modulate, in consideration of his sometimes light-voiced
>leading ladies. Ms. Battle, whatever the stories, on a personal level,
>had, and probably has, one of the loveliest leggiero sounds on record;
>a great example of tonal purity.
>
Back in the days before my love affair with opera was full-blown and I
listened only to individual arias rather than complete operas,I
remember saying to myself when I first heard Kathleen Battle sing:"My
God that is the most beautiful voice I have ever heard."My only
problem with her was that I often had to stress my wax-filled ears to
hear her as well as I would like.Her sound is small but very,very
beautiful.I bought as many of her recordings as I could afford,many of
which I lost in a flood in 1994.Her singing of Zerbinetta in Ariadne
Auf Naxos,I think, was the first CD I bought of a complete opera.I
haven't listened to her in some time but this exchange,I am sure,will
send me back to her again.
JIM
ljo
"L. Credit Where Due T." <lnrd_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1176792188.1...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 16, 11:55 pm, jimupde <jimu...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> On Apr 15, 2:01 pm, "Stephen Jay-Taylor" <sjaytay...@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:> Scotto as a lyric ?
>>
>> > Leontyne, for that matter ? [ surely a lyrico-spinto, and then only
>> > just ]
>>
>> Years ago I read an interview with Leontyne. In that interview she
>> said that she was lyric soprano.......a big juicy lyric, but a lyric
>> non-the-less. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> It's difficult to dispute a famed singer's assessment of her own
> voice, yet it's always come across to me and to most other listeners
> as a spinto, if not a full dramatic sound.
>
Leonard, please share with us how you know what "most other listeners" think
about Miss Price's voice. Am I correct in assuming that you are just a
foolish rhapsodizer who makes this stuff up?
> Her own concession, as to 'big (and) juicy', tends to support it;>
No it doesn't. And don't characterize it as a "concession". She wasn't
having a debate about it, only characterizing her voice.
> moreover, a lyric voice *that* big and *that* juicy is what makes for
> a spinto (aka 'lyrico-spinto') sound. >
Only in your mind, Leonard. There are not scientific parameters for these
descriptions of voices. They are largely subjective except for gender and
range.
> Were her voice really 'nothing more' than a lyric, she'd likely have had
> far less success than she
> did in the greatest spinto/dramatic Verdi roles, and as Tosca. >
Right. Had her voice been a basso, for example, she would not have been a
great Aida. I think we can all agree on that.
> Some singers, for whatever their reasons, like and prefer to
> categorize their voices in ways that are at odds with their actual
> sounds. >
Too bad they never had a chance to run those voices through the Leonard
Tillman Opera-Lite Screen.
La Donna Mobile
IIRC (I'm afraid I can't check out just now because England are losing a
cricket match on the TV...), the orchestra sounded disproportionately
loud. Obviously, one can't tell for sure how a DVD compares to in-house
but it was striking, but yet did not become an irritant. And I did feel
that the orchestra were on song.
alanwa...@aol.com
> 'unique' sound; at least appearing to, in the now-ancient recordings.
>
> > Kind regards,
> > Alan M. Watkins- Hide quoted text -
>
> Best,
> LT,
> whose favorite non-Italian-language recording of Traviata remains
> Bjoerling/Schymberg's. Perfection inevitably transcends
> language-'barriers' - also IMO. :)
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I would say Kozlovsky and Lemeshev an honourable draw for me - both
very, very great singers and in different ways. Certainly Lemeshev
must have been one of the greatest Lensky's of all time I would think
or certainly up there with the best of them.
I think Kozlovsky's ability was, as they say, to "pull rabbits out of
hats" with a particularly stunning contribution.
One such is from the complete Lohengrin (magnificently conducted by
Samosud, a seriously underrated musician) where the dynamics of
Lohengrin's narrative appear not to hold a single terror for him.
By any standards, in my opinion, that is absolutely magnificent
singing and magnificent playing by the strings of the (Bolshoi)
Orchestra who bear the weight of that piece.
It is possibly the apparently effortless breath control which throws
me.
Either that or it being sung in Russian, a wonderful sung language,
seems to suit it so well.
Either way, a very great performance I think by all concerned.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Steve Silverman
"La Donna Mobile" <enidl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:XN6dnTGQtpR...@bt.com...
>
> IIRC (I'm afraid I can't check out just now because England are losing a
> cricket match on the TV...),
I thought I was probably the only idiot watching it to the bitter end.
Steve Silverman
Mrs T xx
> > I've got both the Roberto-Angela DVd and the Rolando-Anna, but not
> satisfied, I really want a Rolando-Angela version, although I do have a
> video clip of them singing the tralalalalala duet from Faenol.
>
Glad I'm not the only one who refers to it as the "tralalalalala
duet" :-)
I really want a Roberto-Anna version, so maybe we could come to some
kind of amical arrangement???
Mrs T xx
L. Credit Where Due T.
Hmm.......
Can Angela G., sometimes referred to, here, as 'Morticia', be
persuaded to perform the opera with Rolando?? This might provide the
needed means of even-sided compromise; ie, quid pro quo..... or
not....
>Mrs T xx
Best,
L 'Stay Tuned' T....
L. Credit Where Due T.
No doubt, from what I've heard in excerpts; As to the breath control
of these tenors and their contemporaries, it often seems on a higher
level of mastery than even the best of their latterday counterparts,
who -themselves- are thrilling to watch and to hear. There's a vast
difference, eg, between Stracciari's Ernani excerpts, and his finest
successors, such as Bruson; Stracciari's breath control and
ornamentations are beyond those of Bruson - a great baritone in his
own right. But there are degrees of everything, even what seems to
be the heights of excellence.
> Either way, a very great performance I think by all concerned.
>
> Kind regards,
> Alan M. Watkins- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Best,
LT
Mrs T xx
wrote:
> >
>
> Can Angela G., sometimes referred to, here, as 'Morticia', be
> persuaded to perform the opera with Rolando?? This might provide the
> needed means of even-sided compromise; ie, quid pro quo..... or
> not....
Eyebrows would just do the juggling thing again and totally upstage
her. And considering his brilliant comedy acting abilities and how
exquisitiely he sings "Una furtiva" then it's almost a given that he
would be the real star of the show, and I doubt Morticia would like
that.........
Mrs T xx
REG
amusing, whether intentionally or not - perhaps we could find a lost scene
by Verdi where Lady tries to arrange the killing of Macduff) and perhaps
your own favorite Andrea Bocelli singing the baritone role of Macbeth (it's
done sometimes, I hear, by tenors) - or would that be Senor Lasagna as
Macbeth?
"Mrs T xx" <mrs.t...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1176883346....@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Mrs T xx
> Imagine a Macbeth with her as Lady and him as Macduff (which would be vastly
> amusing, whether intentionally or not - perhaps we could find a lost scene
> by Verdi where Lady tries to arrange the killing of Macduff) and perhaps
> your own favorite Andrea Bocelli singing the baritone role of Macbeth (it's
> done sometimes, I hear, by tenors) - or would that be Senor Lasagna as
> Macbeth?
>
Oh yes, Morticia would be perfectly cast as Lady Macbeth. But you
couldn't have Bocelli in the cast because millions of his fans would
turn up and scream hysterically for him during the curtain calls.
And it just wouldn't do for the tenor to get louder applause than the
soprano, would it? Morticia certainly wouldn't like that, as those of
us who attended Tosca at CG last year will know :-)
Mrs T xx
L. Credit Where Due T.
> On 18 Apr, 01:42, "L. Credit Where Due T." <lnrd_tl...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Can Angela G., sometimes referred to, here, as 'Morticia', be
> > persuaded to perform the opera with Rolando?? This might provide the
> > needed means of even-sided compromise; ie, quid pro quo..... or
> > not....
> Eyebrows would just do the juggling thing again and totally upstage
> her. And considering his brilliant comedy acting abilities and how
> exquisitiely he sings "Una furtiva" then it's almost a given that he
> would be the real star of the show, and I doubt Morticia would like
> that.........
OTOH, if she's as vain as some say she is, Mortie might not consider
that turn of events a likely one; ergo, she'd agree to the
performance, Senor Rolando de la Eyebrows would deliver a legendary,
gorgeously sung, comedically winning Nemorino, it'd be put on DVD for
posterity, - and Voila!!!
As to the aftermath:
Though Mortie'd be furious, it would be too late, and we'd have gotten
what we wanted!
It may yet happen, no?
> Mrs T xx
Best,
LT
-in a "deviouser" mood than usual.
Mrs T xx
P.S: Anyone care to place bets on the likelihood of Mr Villazon
showing off his juggling skills again at Covent Garden? I'm going
to be very disappointed if he doesn't..........
La Donna Mobile
said that he likes to adapt the production for the actors concerned.
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
L. Credit Where Due T.
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'll just make a guess that Mr. V. will gladly encore his juggling
there, -especially with directorial approval- and in any other
productions affording him such opportunity.
Human Nature is such, that when a performer has not merely one, but
several well-honed skills, and the ability to coordinate them so
expertly, - he won't miss up the chance to do so, to the delight of
all.
Best,
LT,
recalling, in a Non-Opera example, that the legendary Douglas
Fairbanks Sr. -adept at 'one-handed chinning'- made a point of
including this feat in several of his swashbuckler films.
REG
the most dreadful, disrespectful production of a work I've ever seen - I
know there are ones which are worse (like the Ballo by that nutty guy in
South America, is it?) but I haven't seen it. It wouldn't surprise me if
there was juggling in it. Some of the scenes are so hyperactive that they
seem pre-set for Villazon.
"La Donna Mobile" <enidl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:gL-dnYl1O84Or7rb...@bt.com...
Mrs T xx
> I've seen that production earlier this year in Paris, and in some ways it's
> the most dreadful, disrespectful production of a work I've ever seen - I
> know there are ones which are worse (like the Ballo by that nutty guy in
> South America, is it?) but I haven't seen it. It wouldn't surprise me if
> there was juggling in it. Some of the scenes are so hyperactive that they
> seem pre-set for Villazon.
>
Oh dear, I was quite looking forward to it. What was so bad about
the production, please REG??? Apologies if you wrote a review of it
on here in the past and I don't remember.....
Tks Mrs T xx
REG
vulgar, but it's just stupid and mostly low-comedy. They have a dog run back
and forth across the stage a few times in the first act, just so you have a
sense you are in the country, and some terrible goings on in the second that
make it seem like the show was staged by someone who was a lounge-lizard.
It's just demeaning to the work as a whole....I don't know how to describe
it in detail.
"Mrs T xx" <mrs.t...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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