Worst Singers: Remember Florence Foster Jenkins?
BELCA...@aol.com
there is no question of who the worst singer was...
DWadeFoley
BELCA...@aol.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Ed Rosen
>
>Of course, for anyone who has heard the old Florence Foster Jenkins
album,
>there is no question of who the worst singer was...
>
>DWadeFoley
>BELCA...@aol.com
I agree about FFJ.
What about Olive Middleton singing in the 1960's, when she was perhaps
80 plus? I know she had a fine career 40 years earlier, but these
performances were hysterically funny.
She knew all the music, and never missed a not or forgot a word. But
she sounded like she was 110! I can't imagine why she kept singing at
that age.
Also, Stefan Zucker has to have a place in a worst singers list.
Frankly, I don't even consider him an opera singer- just some sort of
side show freakish sound. Sort of like a classical Tiny Tim, but not
as good.
Best,
Ed
Michael Subotin
> Of course, for anyone who has heard the old Florence Foster Jenkins album,
> there is no question of who the worst singer was...
That's it -- can't take the intrigue no more! Can someone kindly
explain to me what the deal was? Why does her album have the multiple
question marks in the title? Was she a bad serious singer or a good
comedy act (or both)? I'm not going to buy the CD (clenched teeth),
but it seems I'm the only man, woman, or child residing outside
the polar ice caps who isn't in on the joke.
Michael
--
E-mail: mvsst3+@pitt{DOT}edu Replace {DOT} with a dot
PANPERSON
charities.
DAVID MY COFFEE MUG SAYS: HOLD ME, I AM A FERMATA IT MAKES MY DAY
A T
I'm not going to buy the CD (clenched teeth),
>but it seems I'm the only man, woman, or child residing outside
>the polar ice caps who isn't in on the joke.
>E-mail: mvsst3+@pitt{DOT}edu Replace {DOT} with a dot
Skip
been drinking lots of beer, tell them all you want them to hear
something funny, You won't believe the effect this woman has on
the line to the toilet.
JDavis6627
>explain to me what the deal was? Why does her album have the multiple
>question marks in the title? Was she a bad serious singer or a good
>but it seems I'm the only man, woman, or child residing outside
>the polar ice caps who isn't in on the joke.
>
>
I guess so. Flo Jenkins was a society matron during the '20s who had always
wanted an opera career, but whose husband emphatically forbade it (He probably
knew she hadn't a hope in Hell). Well, after he died, she was left a rich
widow, and rented Carnegie Hall to give a few concerts - she was well into her
sixties at this point. If she ever could sing - she certainly couldn't at this
point, and New Yorkers flocked to her performances just to get in on the
laughs. Nobody is quite certain whether she was actually serious, or just
playing a huge joke on the audiences. The real hero of these things was her
accompaniest Cosme McMoon, who would seamlessly slip into whatever key Mme.
Jenkins found herself. There are many, many anecdotes about this lady - here
is just one: One of her encors used to be the Habanera from Carmen, during
which she would fling flowers into the audience from a basket held over her
arm. When the audience insisted on a repeat, she would go through the aisles
collecting the flowers so she could do the whole thing over again. An absolute
national treasure!
Jon Davis
"We are all fumbling along . . alone."
Ned Rorem
Ed Rosen
>>but it seems I'm the only man, woman, or child residing outside
>>the polar ice caps who isn't in on the joke.
>
>
>
Do yourself a favor- buy the CD! It's hysterical!
Even more so for her "students" that round out the CD- at least they
did on the LP, and I'm assuming it's the same.
Listen to one Thomas Burns singing Faust and other selections in
English, in this incredible "Brooklynese" that you won't believe.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net>
Ed Rosen
I could be mistaken, but I believe that tickets were given out for free
for her concerts. First come, first served. And the hall was always
full to the rafters.
Ed
Rickiecat
Jenkins. For those who haven't seen it, here is a 40 year old review of her
work when it was apparently transferred to LP. I was around at the time and
have saved this revied all these years. Don't have the LP as in 1954 money was
tight.
A Florence Foster Jenkins Recital.
Florence Foster Jenkins (soprano?) accompanied by Cosme McMoon (piano)
1 -10" disc. (V-LRT-7000) $2.99.
Contents: The Magic Flute - Queen of the Night (Mozart)
The Musical Snuffbox (Liadoff)
Like a Bird (McMoon)
Lakmé - Bell Song (Delibes)
Serenata Mexicana (McMoon)
Pearl of Brazil - Charmant Oiseau (David)
Biassy (Bach-Pavlovich)
Die Fledermaus - Adele's Laughing Song (J. Strauss)
With the publicity which will undoubtedly be given this disc by RCA Victor,
Mme Florence Foster Jenkins will be introduced to others than those "in the
know", so to speak; for many of us already own the Melotone 78 rmp discs of
these hilarious selections, which have been available for a dozen years or so.
(Aside to these owners: the surface noise is still present on the Victor LP
disc, so don't think you will get a better pressing by buying the present
record).
To those who may not have heard of the ineluctable Mme. Jenkins, perhaps
these excerpts from reviews of her fabulous concerts will serve as a proper
introduction.
"Mrs. Jenkins' nightqueenly swoops and hoots, her wild wallowings in
descending trill, her repeated staccato notes like a cuckoo in its cups, are
innocently uproarious to hear..." (Time, June 16, 1941)
"...to add spice to your collection, to make you a Ripley, (get the record
of) Florence Foster Jenkins' singing of the dramatic aria of the Queen of the
Night from Mozart's "Magic Flute". What I might say about it would be
libelous, so I won't. (Esquire, Oct. 1941)
"...She was undaunted by either the composers intents or the opinions of her
auditors." (New York Journal-American).
These arias and songs are the funniest things ever! But to really
appreciate them you must have a copy of the little booklet entitled "Florence
Foster Jenkins: An Appreciation, by Milton Bendiner (Price $1); it will
explain so much that is inexplicable, and is more than worth its modest price.
(If you already own the 78 discs, the booklet is available separately, and the
price includes postage in U.S.A.)
"Some may say that I couldn't sing," Lady Florence reflected as the
perspective of her careen receded into the shadow, "but no one can say that I
didn't sing."
Q.E.D.
"The New Records", April 1954
John F. Cook
San Pedro, CA 90732
rick...@aol.com
Stregata
>for her concerts. First come, first served. And the hall was always
>full to the rafters.
>
>
>Ed
What about Thomas Burns, who sings with her in the CD? Another laugh.
Stregata
Elizabeth & Keith Falkner
Author: John Lynch
Date:
1996/01/13
Forums:
rec.music.opera
Some years ago a friend of mine tried to convince me that Cosme (not
Cosmo) McMoon was really Gerald Moore. This was doubly puzzling, because
the name Cosme McMoon always conjured up a vision of a lady in tweeds
with
cotton stockings and sensible shoes. To clear the matter up I wrote to
Francis Robinson, who had written the jacket notes for the RCA Victor
album, The Glory ???? of the Human Voice. He wrote back by return mail
to
say that McMoon was definitely his own man, and that they had last met
when they were on jury duty together.
Robinson added that before Kirsten Flagstad came into his life, Mme
Jenkins' accompanist had been Edwin McArthur. "She fired him. He
laughed."
******
By the way it was McMoon, not Jenkins who went down the aisles for the
roses and petals she tossed.
I have frequently heard him referred to as "the long-suffering" Mr.
McMoon. I hope she left him all her money.
I found this; I think it may be record liner notes:
The glory of the human voice has never had fuller expression
than in
the career of Florence Foster Jenkins.
La Jenkins was not apologetically low key in her badness; she
was
defiantly and gloriously dreadful. No one, before or since, has
succeeded
in liberating themselves quite so completely from the shackles of
musical
notation. Opera was her medium and she squawked heroically through the
best
known arias with a refreshing abandon.
From her birth in Pennsylvania in 1864 to her debut 40 years
later,
it is fair to say that neither her parents nor her husband gave the
slightest encouragement to her musical ambitions.
Then papa left her his fortune and, with this new-found wealth
and
freedom, she launched her assault upon the musical world.
Her flair for dress design fully equalled her singing gift and,
in
any concert, thrilled audiences were treated to a minimum of three
costume
changes. One minute she would appear sporting an immense pair of wings
to
render 'Ave Maria.' The next she would emerge in the garb of a senorita,
with a rose between her teeth and a basket full of flowers to unload her
Spanish show stopper, 'Cavelitos.'
In this song she wold punctuate each verse by hurling rosebuds
into
the audience. Once she hurled the basket as well.
The audience could always tell when she was going to grant an
encore. She would dispatch her overworked accompanist Cosme McMoon out
into
the auditorium to collect up the flowers so that she might repeat her
triumph.
On 26 October 1944, she hired and filled to capacity the
Carnegie
Hall in New York for her farewell appearance. She started
disappointingly
with three correct notes, but her admirers need not have feared. Before
long she abandoned pitch, stave, and key and was as out of tune as it is
possible to be without coming back in tune again.
**********
Elizabeth
HAlbright
JDavis6627 wrote in message
<199808261242...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>I guess so. Flo Jenkins was a society matron during the '20s who had
always
>wanted an opera career, but whose husband emphatically forbade it (He
probably
>knew she hadn't a hope in Hell). Well, after he died, she was left a rich
>widow,
Actually, Mme Jenkins divorced her husband. Her inheritance came from her
father, a rich banker.
> and rented Carnegie Hall to give a few concerts - she was well into her
>sixties at this point.
She appeared in NYC but once a year and almost always at the ballroom of the
Ritz-Carlton. But for her loyal admirers (clubwomen of her Verdi Club)
tickets were difficult to obtain. She often interviewed applicants for
tickets in her hotel room and when satisfied she was speaking with a real
"music lover" dispensed the tickets for $2.50. For October 25, 1944, Mme
Jenkins rented Carnegie Hall for the first and only time. The hall was sold
out for weeks in advance and the gross was more than $6000. A month later,
she died.
> If she ever could sing - she certainly couldn't at this
>point, and New Yorkers flocked to her performances just to get in on the
>laughs. Nobody is quite certain whether she was actually serious, or just
>playing a huge joke on the audiences. The real hero of these things was
her
>accompaniest Cosme McMoon, who would seamlessly slip into whatever key Mme.
>Jenkins found herself.
Indeed McMoon was overworked. It was McMoon who was usually sent into the
audience to retrieve the blossoms Jenkins had thrown there. This flower act
was usually a part of her singing the role of Carmen. Once, it is said,
Jenkins inadvertently threw the basket into the audience as well. McMoon
retrieved.
>There are many, many anecdotes about this lady - here
>is just one: One of her encors used to be the Habanera from Carmen, during
>which she would fling flowers into the audience from a basket held over her
>arm. When the audience insisted on a repeat, she would go through the
aisles
>collecting the flowers so she could do the whole thing over again. An
absolute
>national treasure!
Another anecdote: After an accident in a taxi in 1943, Mme Jenkins
discovered that she could sing "a higher F and ever before." She sent the
cabbie an expensive box of cigars.
The CD -- Florence Foster Jenkins" The Glory(????) of the Human Voice" is
indeed a treasure. One must hear this voice to believe it.
HAlbright
HenryFogel
Don Gabor, who ran Remington Records, and as a result made a complete Tosca
recording (I'm told there is also a Trovatore, but I've never heard it or seen
it anywhere); Eddie Ruhl is Cavaradossi and Piero Campolonghi is Scarpia, and
the thing is accompanied by the Florence May Festival Orchestra. Petrova is
astonishing -- her shrill squawks are perfect party pieces to liven up any
evening. Her High C in Act III (just before "O dolci mani") will peal the
paint from your ceiling.
Henry Fogel
Adri...@webtv.net
<<Do yourself a favor- buy the CD! It's hysterical!
Even more so for her "students" that round out the CD- at least they did
on the LP, and I'm assuming it's the same.
Listen to one Thomas Burns singing Faust and other selections in
English, in this incredible "Brooklynese" that you won't believe.>>
Yes, the Jenny Williams/Thomas Burns travesty of Faust is also included
on the CD. It's quite an experience.
The liner notes, by Francis Robinson, provide this gem about FFJ: "After
a taxicab crash in 1943 she found she could sing 'a higher F than ever
before.' Instead of a lawsuit against the taxicab company, she sent the
driver a box of expensive cigars."
I'm still waiting for the U. S. Postal Service to issue a stamp with
Madame Jenkins in her "Angel of Inspiration" costume.
~A~
Matthew B. Tepper
Ah, a kind of a Russian Viorica Ursuleac!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> I'm still waiting for the U. S. Postal Service to issue a stamp with
> Madame Jenkins in her "Angel of Inspiration" costume.
I hate to be the wet blanket, but frankly, I'd rather they issue more
stamps of real musicians first. It's taken them so many years so
finally bother to getting around to the recent sets of composers,
conductors, and opera singers -- and potential stamps for Bernstein and
Copland are still a few years off.
Besides, I want to be able to vote for my choice between skinny Callas
and fat Callas!
Adri...@webtv.net
<<I hate to be the wet blanket, but frankly, I'd rather they issue more
stamps of real musicians first. It's taken them so many years so finally
bother to getting around to the recent sets of composers, conductors,
and opera singers -- and potential stamps for Bernstein and Copland are
still a few years off.>>
The U. S. Postal service might have trouble distinguishing between Ol'
Florence and a real singer. BTW, who was the last opera singer that they
honored? I'm not a stamp collector.
<<Besides, I want to be able to vote for my choice between skinny Callas
and fat Callas!>>
LOL! The skinny, glamorous version might have a stronger sentimental
appeal, but I'd vote for the plump model.
~A~
can...@webtv.net
HenryFogel
>Date: 8/D/YYYY 2:49 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <35E466...@deltanet.com>
>
>HenryFogel wrote:
>>
>> Not quite as bad -- but approaching FFJ -- is Vessilka Petrova. She
>> married Don Gabor, who ran Remington Records, and as a result made a
>> complete Tosca recording (I'm told there is also a Trovatore, but I've
>> never heard it or seen it anywhere); Eddie Ruhl is Cavaradossi and
>> Piero Campolonghi is Scarpia, and the thing is accompanied by the
>> Florence May Festival Orchestra. Petrova is astonishing -- her shrill
>> squawks are perfect party pieces to liven up any evening. Her High C
>> in Act III (just before "O dolci mani") will peal the paint from your
>> ceiling.
>>
>> Henry Fogel
>
>Ah, a kind of a Russian Viorica Ursuleac!
>
>Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Believe me, Ursuleac's voice is pure velvet in comparison to Ms. Petrova's!
(And I share your opinion of Ursuleac)!
Henry Fogel
solovoice
>Does anyone remember Mrs. Miller - the hilarious off-key singer?
Oh yes indeed, I still have her album. As a kid I used to call the
radio station and request "Lover's Concerto" and drive the DJs nuts.
John
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
-- Benjamin Franklin
Adri...@webtv.net
Middleton? Did she really sing Norma with a stuffed owl strapped to her
wrist?
~A~
Matthew B. Tepper
Adri...@webtv.net pondered what I'm pondering as follows:
>
>Matthew Tepper wrote:
><<I hate to be the wet blanket, but frankly, I'd rather they issue
>more stamps of real musicians first. It's taken them so many years so
>finally bother to getting around to the recent sets of composers,
>conductors, and opera singers -- and potential stamps for Bernstein
>and Copland are still a few years off.>>
>
>The U. S. Postal service might have trouble distinguishing between Ol'
>Florence and a real singer. BTW, who was the last opera singer that
>they honored? I'm not a stamp collector.
Lily Pons, Richard Tucker, Rosa Ponselle, and Lawrence Tibbett. Next
question?
><<Besides, I want to be able to vote for my choice between skinny
>Callas and fat Callas!>>
>
>LOL! The skinny, glamorous version might have a stronger sentimental
>appeal, but I'd vote for the plump model.
>
>~A~
I remember some nitwits complaining about the Elvis Presley stamp
"because he used drugs"; perhaps there will be tapeworm's rights
nitwits complaining about the prospect of the skinny Callas stamp....
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Ed Rosen
I know she sang Trovatore and died standing up, leaning against a wall.
She was too old to fall down. I saw this, and it is true.
Best,
Ed
jzydek
Ed Rosen wrote in message <6s43vm$6...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>...
Arr1on
play for vocal juries at the end of each semester. One semester, I was stuck
with a particularly awful singer, of the FFJ variety. She could not match
pitches, she could not hold the pitch she thought she arrived at, she could not
count--yet she always wore "diva duds", in the heroic singing tradition of the
best of them. My poor colleagues on the voice faculty, who were destined by
cruel fate to hear her jury, all ten minutes of it, tried several methods to
camouflage their laughter, and finally the singer was done. I quietly
returned to the voice instructors and passed out some business cards I had made
the night before: "Cosme McMoon, accompanist".
Brady McElligott--Edgewood, NM
arr...@aol.com
ve...@unm.edu
"Is it music, or just on pursose?"--Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
Gaelin
about.
HenryFogel wrote:
> >From: "Matthew B. Tepper" <ducky兀deltanet.com>
> >Date: 8/D/YYYY 2:49 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <35E466...@deltanet.com>
> >
> >HenryFogel wrote:
> >>
> >> Not quite as bad -- but approaching FFJ -- is Vessilka Petrova. She
> >> married Don Gabor, who ran Remington Records, and as a result made a
> >> complete Tosca recording (I'm told there is also a Trovatore, but I've
> >> never heard it or seen it anywhere); Eddie Ruhl is Cavaradossi and
> >> Piero Campolonghi is Scarpia, and the thing is accompanied by the
> >> Florence May Festival Orchestra. Petrova is astonishing -- her shrill
> >> squawks are perfect party pieces to liven up any evening. Her High C
> >> in Act III (just before "O dolci mani") will peal the paint from your
> >> ceiling.
> >>
> >> Henry Fogel
> >
> >Ah, a kind of a Russian Viorica Ursuleac!
> >
> >--
> >Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
>
Matthew B. Tepper
singers as, say, Peter Pears and Jan Peerce.
In article <35E6A285...@NYCnet.com>, Gae...@NYCnet.com pondered
what I'm pondering as follows:
>
Henry Tickner
<ducky兀deltanet.com> writes
>I can imagine that's possible; I'd also say the same of such disparate
>singers as, say, Peter Pears and Jan Peerce.
I'd always thought I was in a minority of one about Peter Pears. There's
something about the voice that just leaves me stone cold.
I used to hate Britten's music too (apart from lollipops like the Young
Person's Guide) until I had to sing in scenes from Albert Herring and
Peter Grimes; familiarity bred love and admiration. But Pears' voice - I
kept listening, even to stuff not written by Benjy, and still couldn't
learn to like it.
How do others feel?
--
Henry Tickner
"Milk-Punch? o Wisky?"
The 'nospam' is my ISP's domain, the 'boudoir' is mine.
donpaolo
tenor. I never could appreciate Peter Grimes until I heard Vickers do the
role; then I was bowled over.
Regards,
DonP.
Henry Tickner <he...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
Leroy Curtis
<he...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I'd always thought I was in a minority of one about Peter Pears. There's
>something about the voice that just leaves me stone cold.
>
You can count me among the Pears-haters. His voice simply grates on my
nerves, rather like chalk scraping on a blackboard.
--
Regards
Leroy Curtis
Please replace "nospam" with "baram" in my address if you wish to
reply by Email
Deborah Overes
><he...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I'd always thought I was in a minority of one about Peter Pears. There's
>something about the voice that just leaves me stone cold.
>
>How do others feel?
I never much cared for him in opera recordings but a friend gave me a CD of
Pears singing Britten's Folk Song Arrangements (accompanied by Britten at
the piano) and I find them quite charming. Perhaps it's a repertoire that
suits him better.
Deborah Overes
"Men are like strings. Every Yo-Yo wants one"
MD
there is an early "live" recording of the title role of Stravinsky's Oedipus
Rex from Germany that is excellent. Never a truly operatic voice, he made his
effects with the coloring of his voice, his excellent vocal technique and
carving out an offbeat repertoire in which he was unlikely to have
competition. One of the great singers of all time.
Dylan Bryan-Dolman
> I'd always thought I was in a minority of one about Peter Pears. There's
> something about the voice that just leaves me stone cold.
Minority of one? Pears is pretty much universally acknowledged to have had
an ugly, spooky voice. But his insight and musicianship still make him a
singer worth studying. No one can match his perfect identification with
the roles of Peter Quint or the Madwoman, and his icy, angry Winterreise
(which I haven`t heard for years, since it`s not available in the states)
is one of my favorites.
I agree that he`s ill-suited to Grimes -- in that opera Ben hadn`t yet
learned to write around Peter`s limitations as he later did so smoothly
(which I believe altered his whole melodic language, even in instrumental
pieces). But Vickers can`t be treated as definitive either -- he took
quite a few liberties with the text in order to create `his` version of the
character.
Dylan
=dbd=
HenryFogel
>From: MD <dal...@isomedia.com>
>Date: 8/D/YYYY 12:42 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <35E794C6...@isomedia.com>
As we think about the contributions that Pears made to music, let us not forget
that in fact he was the inspiration for some of the greatest music for tenor
written in the 20th Century. We might prefer, many of us, Jon Vickers in the
role of Peter Grimes. But had it not been for the existence of Peter Pears and
who he was, we would not have had that role --and other great tenor parts, and
works like Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings, Les Illuminations, and Lord
knows how much else.
Pears gifts were more musical than vocal -- it was not the most attractive
tenor sound, and many listeners could not get past that. But he was a
wonderful musician, and colorist -- some of his lieder recordings with Britten
are very special indeed.
Henry Fogel
william d. kasimer
> and his icy, angry Winterreise
> (which I haven`t heard for years, since it`s not available in the states)
It is, but you have to order it via the WWW, or find a big HMV store
that obtains imports from the UK. It's still on Decca, both
individually and coupled with Die Schoene Muellerin in a "Double
Decca". I've seen both at the HMV in Cambridge, Mass.
> I agree that he`s ill-suited to Grimes -- in that opera Ben hadn`t yet
> learned to write around Peter`s limitations
I don't agree. Admittedly, an older Pears sounds a bit odd in the
complete recording, but have you heard the highlights recorded shortly
after the premiere (with Goodall?). The voice is much more youthful,
secure, and the singing much more passionate.
I am an unapologetic admirer of practically every recording that Pears
ever made - even the very late Schumann Lieder record that he made with
Perahia for CBS. Regardless of what one thinks of the voice itself,
there's an extraordinary level of musicality, intellect, and
*commitment*.
Bill
Bill
--
William D. Kasimer
wk...@mindspring.com
wk...@juno.com
Don Drewecki
I should put in a vote for Pears's recording of Stravinsky's Oedipus rex
with the composer, from 1951, the Cologne Radio performance. That's made
tremendous impression on me for years. Maybe it will be reissued by
Sony Masterworks Heritage?
--
Don Drewecki
<dre...@rpi.edu>
Kate Brown
william d. kasimer <wk...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
>I am an unapologetic admirer of practically every recording that Pears
>ever made - even the very late Schumann Lieder record that he made with
>Perahia for CBS. Regardless of what one thinks of the voice itself,
>there's an extraordinary level of musicality, intellect, and
>*commitment*.
I heard him in the midseventies, singing 'Les Illuminations' - it was an
astonishing piece of sheer musical communication. I also sang to him,
in the eighties, admittedly after he had been ill - it was a Snape
masterclass - and was bitterly disappointed, not only for myself but for
everybody else, at his lack of interest. Now, I of course understand
that we - I - were probably nowhere near a level that would have been
interesting to him, but the whole experience left an odd uncomfortable
feeling.
What do others feel generally about the 'masterclass' experience? Have
you had positive, useful, feedback (I have in other circumstances - and
now I teach on courses, and am extremely interested to hear feedback)?
Or have you sometimes felt that the teacher is there to continue their
own performance rather than relate to yours? And if you go to hear them
rather than participate, what is it that you are looking and listening
for? The eminent teacher's anecdote or the aspiring student's
performance?
--
Kate B
London
CAVRQT
>that we - I - were probably nowhere near a level that would have been
>interesting to him, but the whole experience left an odd uncomfortable
>feeling.
>
>What do others feel generally about the 'masterclass' experience? Have
>you had positive, useful, feedback (I have in other circumstances - and
>now I teach on courses, and am extremely interested to hear feedback)?
>Or have you sometimes felt that the teacher is there to continue their
>own performance rather than relate to yours? And if you go to hear them
>rather than participate, what is it that you are looking and listening
>for? The eminent teacher's anecdote or the aspiring student's
>performance?
>
>
master class? Certainly, if you really were all that unformed, there should
have been lots that he could have added.
The "master" of the class is under some pressure to produce change in a
performance. The better the student, the harder it is to make that a clear
change for the (even) better. I mean, how many times do you go to a master
class and hear, "That was a totally awesome performance and I wouldn't change a
thing"?
Classes can range from the absolutely illuminating and wonderful to exercises
in ego amplification (on both sides). Like concerts.
Jane
******
Under where?
dtritter
posted to my file some time ago on the subject of masterclasses. forgive
the length and disagree as you might. i can take it.:
IN RE THE MASTER CLASS
Daniel F. Tritter
A lot of recent discussion of vocal master classes, especially in a pair
of articles on Elizabeth Schwartzkopf in the December 1995 Opera News
prompts a few observations from this corner. I do not undertake the
subject as the occasion for expressing predilections on singers and
their performing days, past or present. Master classes have become the
occasion for a lot of mythmaking, due to a widespread misreading of what
they are and what they are not.
A few generations back, a master class was understood to be a gathering
of vocal students of, possibly, several teachers to show their wares
before a recognized "master," a performer at or near retirement, but
also an opportunity to gain an insight into performance practice. Both
guinea pig singer and auditing student colleagues might learn something
unique from the visiting "master."
But in recent decades, the master class has become something quite
different, an aggrandizing [and not incidentally, profitable] curtain
call for a retired diva/divo, who too often is uable to articulate
anything of substance to the students. In many of these appearances, the
public is invited and sometimes pays for tickets at a rather healthy
tariff. On some occasions, the guest is an itinerant pedagogue who goes
from conservatory to conservatory, festival to festival, and conveys a
publicized image as vocal sage. Occasionally his/her advance reputation
even is discovered to be well deserved.
The public's current fascination dates from Maria Callas' 1973
appearance at Juilliard, first memorialized between hard covers by
critic and Callas hagiographer John Ardoin, now transferred into public
consciousness by Zoë Caldwell's riveting portrayal in a new play by
operaphile playwright Terence McNally, bearing the unsurprising title
"Master Class." Love her or not, Callas had something to say and she
said it well. It would have been even more a cause for celebration
without a public out there to chorus their love for their idol's past
accomplishments.
One trouble with master classes is the frequency with which the students
are inadequately prepared, or ill-advised by their teachers, or not yet
sufficiently advanced to profit from the received wisdom of the master.
This is nowhere more evident than those sessions played out before a
public audience, which eagerly gazes upon their idol for the first time
in mufti. Unaided by corseting, period costuming and the magic of makeup
artist, he/she is nonetheless putting on a performance.
Now what of the visiting artist? How candid, critical or picky ought
he/she be? Should the student's teacher be criticized, contradicted, or
rebuked, directly or indirectly? The most telling such comment I ever
heard was of the fabled and ever forthright Birgit Nilsson, pointedly
asking a young girl, "who told you you were a mezzo?" Her teacher, was
the answer. "Hmm, that's what they told me too," was the comment of the
greatest dramatic soprano of our last half century.
Is the "master" present to give a voice lesson? Is it possible that such
technical instruction may run directly counter to what the student has
been taught? Is the master there to recruit new students for his/her own
studio? There's an uneasy balance to be struck, involving diplomacy,
honesty and plain good manners. It is not uncommon that the master lacks
every one of these. A career as renowned performer does not guarantee
that such offstage skills have been woven into the fabric of the
performer's mien.
The last thing a vulnerable student needs is to be publicly shot down in
flames by the cruelty of a latterday Luftwaffe tailgunner. The poor kid
is, after all, a volunteer. It isn't enough to give him/her a preview of
the "real world." A school is not the real world, and the student will
learn of it all too soon, without the unpleasant preview offered by an
omnipotent "master."
The paradigm of such coarse conduct, a living manual in reprehensible
behaviour by the "master," was provided by retired diva Elizabeth
Schwartzkopf in a video made at her studio in Switzerland and played on
public television two years ago, a vulgar display of insults and gibes
at a handful of young students, their teachers and all previous
training. She likewise offers demonstrations not merely of her
interpretation, but also of a vocal technique, which could well be
questioned by reputable vocal pedagogues. Twenty years previous, I had
attended another master class of Miss Schwartzkopf, when her late
husband, Walter Legge, was on hand, perhaps to exercise a restraining
hand upon the diva's penchant for pouring her vitriol upon students too
young, too awed, and too polite to return her gratuitous maltreatment
A comparable public display of ferocious malignity took place a couple
of seasons back in New York, when divo Franco Corelli, uninhibited by
his sketchy command of English, excoriated a young singer as if he had
wantonly desecrated the sarcophagus of Verdi, and simultaneously
mutilated Rossini's birthplace. The public paid admission for the
occasion of the retired tenor's boorishness.
Who does it better? In truth, quite a few. Nilsson's appearances at
Manhattan School have been memorable. Regine Crespin's recent New York
visit drew public notice even in the New York Times, which noted her
businesslike, unselfish, warm and communicative desire to help, not
wound the fragile ego, of the young singers.
The best master class I ever heard was that of a singer with not much
voice and a cachet only among the cognoscenti. Hugues Cuenod is a
comprimario tenor who has appeared before the public for more than six
(6!) decades. What modest vocal equipment was his to command was always
used with taste, intelligence and a knowledge of vocal technique. He
came to Juilliard, unheralded to the general public, to work with a
handful of students, before an audience that included not more than a
dozen of us unaffiliated with the school. He did not teach voice. Cuenod
worked on French recital repertoire, as one who knows every note, every
syllable, every poem set, every nuance in performance. He was kind and
generous in his praise of the students [even when perhaps undeserved]
and expansive with helpful suggestions and the lore of the milieu. The
students glowed with the joy of music, and every student who paid
attention and used the Cuenod suggestions demonstrated that he/she had
learned from a real master.
See! It can be done. We may never hear of the students who experience
such classes. Or we may hear a great deal. The Schwartzkopf model is
destructive and spirit killing, and worse, antimusical. Perhaps her goal
is to show that if you survive her classes, you can survive anything.
That may be a worthy goal in military training, but musicmaking is not
Parris Island. Learning need not be accompanied by corporal punishment
or infliction of mental cruelty as a spur.
"I am yet Tsar," cries Boris, and falls dead.
dft
Deborah Overes
friend in Portugal who told me of her experiences in a master class with
Cotrubas. She said "She made me cry, but then, she makes everybody cry".
Young singers should be treated with some kindness and delicacy. Most of
them have had to pony up some big bucks for the opportunity to gain some
advice from someone they admire and to "shoot them down in flames" is
completely inappropriate.
Musipro
>What do others feel generally about the 'masterclass' experience? >Have
>you had positive, useful, feedback (I have in other circumstances - >and
>now I teach on courses, and am extremely interested to hear >feedback)?
>Or have you sometimes felt that the teacher is there to continue >their
>own performance rather than relate to yours? And if you go to >hear them
>rather than participate, what is it that you are looking and >listening
>for? The eminent teacher's anecdote or the aspiring student's
>performance?
Two distinguished singers whom I have heard give wonderful master classes:
1) Phyllis Curtin--she gave detailed and useful information about every aspect
of vocal technique, while always maintaining a professional, kind and humorous
attitude toward the student. It was a private lesson for the student with
additions and amplifications of her points to the audience (mostly other
singers and coaches).
2) Gerard Souzay--in complete contrast, very little talk about technique, but
pinpoint attention to French diction and much useful insight into the French
style of singing and approaching music, backed up by his firsthand knowledge of
many of the composers of the repertoire brought before him.
It may be significant that these classes occurred in basically educational
settings (Tanglewood in the case of the former, U. Texas the latter), not in
public halls in front of paying audiences, although presumably anyone could
have attended.
dtritter
register it, though at least reader seems to have seen it. anyway, this
message to my file was penned last year:
dtritter
meant to put on your everloving screens:
IN RE THE MASTER CLASS
Daniel F. Tritter
A lot of recent discussion of vocal master classes, especially in a pair
of articles on Elizabeth Schwartzkopf in the December 1995 Opera News
prompts a few observations from this corner. I do not undertake the
subject as the occasion for expressing predilections on singers and
their performing days, past or present. Master classes have become the
occasion for a lot of mythmaking, due to a widespread misreading of what
they are and what they are not.
A few generations back, a master class was understood to be a gathering
of vocal students of, possibly, several teachers to show their wares
before a recognized "master," a performer at or near retirmeent, but
Celia A. Sgroi
recognize that the possibilities for exploitation do not run in one
direction only. For example, I couldn't begin to list the number of young
lieder singers whose biographies and press materials list Dietrich
Fischer-Dieskau and/or Elisabeth Schwarzkopf among their teachers, often
on the strength of a master class lasting no more than a week.
No matter how serious the teacher might be, no matter how good his or her
intentions might be, how much real assistance can he or she give a student
in the course of a few hours? Surely both parties to the transaction are
aware of this. I don't think it is entirely fanciful to speculate that in
more than a few cases the ability to describe oneself thereafter as "pupil
of Fischer-Dieskau or Schwarzkopf" is the real reward for attending the
masterclass. If the pupil actually received some valuable advice from the
teacher in question, so much the better.
Celia A. Sgroi
State University of New York
College at Oswego
sg...@oswego.edu
PART...@mip.paed.uni-muenchen.de
learn how to (1) sing (2) teach (3) behave.
Deborah Overes
master classes a mandatory part of our education. However, these master
classes were conducted by him for his own students. It meant that we all
spoke the same technical 'language' and could benefit from hearing others
struggle with similar problems or hear things described in subtly different
ways that might help clarify them for us. The benefits of THIS type of
class are enormous. Not only did we learn technique and get a change to
sing in front of an audience on a weekly basis (classes were held in the
Recital Hall if possible) but the amount of repertoire we were exposed to,
especially in the first or second year) was absolutely invaluable. Granted,
this may not be what everyone else thinks of when they hear the phrase
"master class", but for me it was a valuable learning experience.
Mike Richter
>
> When I was at University, my teacher (Bernard Turgeon) always considered
> master classes a mandatory part of our education.
There is a key factor which you are sliding past: In Turgeon, you had a
teacher who had truly mastered the art and the science of singing. His
name is not well known because his instrument was (is?) modest and
(AFAIK) he confined his performances to Canada. Nothing wrong with
Canada, but hardly the place in which to be recognized as a star.
Turgeon was the master of his voice and his art. He also clearly
understands what he did and why and how. In that, he has a great
advantage over many of the superstars. Pavarotti's 'master classes' were
a travesty. If Domingo conducts some, they will be well worth attending.
As with Carroll's Humpty Dumpty, it is a question of who is to be
master.
Mike
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Linda B. Fairtile
<dov...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>When I was at University, my teacher (Bernard Turgeon) always considered
>master classes a mandatory part of our education. However, these master
>classes were conducted by him for his own students.
What you've described is certainly very important to a young singer's
development. Where I went to school (Oberlin Conservatory), these
events, conducted by one's own teacher in the presence of fellow
students, were called "studio classes."
--
Linda B. Fairtile
Astoria, New York
ta...@bway.net
Deborah Overes
Mike Richter wrote in message <35EF73...@mindspring.com>...
>Deborah Overes wrote:
>>
>> When I was at University, my teacher (Bernard Turgeon) always considered
>> master classes a mandatory part of our education.
>
>teacher who had truly mastered the art and the science of singing. His
>name is not well known because his instrument was (is?) modest and
>(AFAIK) he confined his performances to Canada. Nothing wrong with
>Canada, but hardly the place in which to be recognized as a star.
I certainly thank Fate, or God, or Shiva or whoever it was that had a
completely inexperienced woman who had never heard of Bernard Turgeon end up
at the University of Victoria under his guidance (and that of his wife
Teresa Turgeon, an incredible accompanist and coach who NEVER talked to me
like a student, but rather as a fellow artist from day one). He did have a
career outside Canada singing in Russia and England (was at Sadler's Wells).
It was a concious decision on his part to begin teaching. He felt this was
the most important thing he could give back to his art form. He still sings
extremely well IMO but more important, he is also a fabulous actor. The
greatest crime you can commit in his hearing is not to sing poorly
technically but to make a perfect sound that means nothing. Even when
singing exercises, it had to have meaning. He also understands better than
most the "mental" game of singing - how easy it is to fall into traps of
questioning one's decisions and the need to cling firmly to your own beliefs
and ideals in the face of the business side of opera.
>Turgeon was the master of his voice and his art. He also clearly
>understands what he did and why and how. In that, he has a great
>advantage over many of the superstars. Pavarotti's 'master classes' were
>a travesty. If Domingo conducts some, they will be well worth attending.
I agree with you on this one. One day I brought my copy of "Great Singers
on Great Singing" and read to him a portion of the interview with Domingo in
which he speaks of how much of his technique is based on the meaning of what
he is singing. I hadn't told him who's words I was reading but he just
nodded and said "He understands". :-)
Mike, I can't tell you how it makes my day to hear that you know of Bernard
who, in every possible way, has changed my life for the better. I have
studied briefly with people I've met along the way, but the Turgeons were my
first teachers and remain my teachers, friends and mentors today. I
wouldn't be here today without them.
Mike Richter
> Mike, I can't tell you how it makes my day to hear that you know of Bernard
> who, in every possible way, has changed my life for the better. I have
> studied briefly with people I've met along the way, but the Turgeons were my
> first teachers and remain my teachers, friends and mentors today. I
> wouldn't be here today without them.
He is one of those artists whose appeal is impossible to explain to the
canary lovers. His few recordings (I know him from CBC telecasts, most
notably the excellent Louis Riel) show a voice of no extraordinary
properties - and an exceptional musician who knows what he is doing. I
would hope that there are recordings - or at least tapes - of his
performances of song. Perhaps Lieder, perhaps English songs.