What is the allure of andrea Bocelli's voice?
Ken B Lane
high tessitura that is just the opposite of the jarring raucous, foul barking
that is expressed in scatalogical dialogue in much of the music today.
The public always has sought the melodious, the tender and the up-beat and that
is what most of the time he programs.'
He does not have any skeletons in the closet, no drugs, no scandals.
A nice Italian "boy."
His voice may get larger and more expressive and his audiences will have much
for which o give thanks.
I wish him well.
Kenneth Lane
Janloves
>From: kenb...@aol.com (Ken B Lane)
>Date: 7/8/2000 7:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000708195047...@ng-ci1.aol.com>
not arrogant, he truly LOVES his craft, and his fans. To me, he is a rare
treasure.
@-<-<-Jan-<-<-<
http://hometown.aol.com/janloves/ImagesofLove.html
Please vote in my poll!
~~~~~~
~Do not go gentle, into that good night.~
lav...@webtv.net
recent special, i noticed several full-grown women having a sort of
"swoon" during parts of the concert. It reminded me of the look on the
faces of young girls when Frank Sinatra first appeared on the scene. I
like Bocelli too for the same reasons, he sings with great sincerity and
is a sweetheart, he doesn't move, he just sings! Isn't that something
in a day when so many pop singers require millions of dollars of stage
effects to keep their fans happy. Bocelli fans just go to hear him
sing.
p.s. No I don't think he is an opera singer, but i do think he is very
determined to sing opera and has indeed made progress in his singing
technique. I prefer him in songs but wish him well in his dream of
singing opera.
leo wisselink
in the closet have to do with good singing???????????
Ken B Lane <kenb...@aol.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
20000708195047...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
dtritter
correct response to the question posed in the header here:
dft
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Karen Mercedes
Karen Mercedes
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Ich singe, wie der Vogel singt,
Der in den Zweigen wohnet;
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Ist Lohn, der reichlich lohnet.
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Karen Mercedes
young Italian from a poor background who has had to struggle to make it.
Any struggle is because of his modest talent, methinks. I understand that
he is, actually, rolling in money - and has been for longer than he has
been "struggling" to make it - due to investing in thoroughbred horses in
Italy. Perhaps I misheard this particular rumour?
KM
lennon fan
dal...@radix.net (Karen Mercedes) Re: What is the allure of andrea
Bocelli's voice?
young Italian from a poor background who has had to struggle to make it.
Any struggle is because of his modest talent, methinks. I understand
that he is, actually, rolling in money - and has been for longer than he
has been "struggling" to make it - due to investing in thoroughbred
horses in Italy. Perhaps I misheard this particular rumour?
KM
I've never heard of Bocelli's people misrepresenting him as 'poor',
actually, they've always said his family had some money, as his father
owned a farming machinery business. There also has never been any
'struggle', as from the time he was a little boy he won contests and
notice as a singer. His parents wanted him to have a secure career, and
so pushed him to get educated where he eventually practiced law. His
family AFAIK, always had a few horses but he didn't start investing in
them until he became a successful professional singer (he worked in a
piano bar as a way to pay for his voice lessons from Franco Corelli).
Leonard Tillman
tapefanatic
Leonard Tillman
tapefanatic
VALFER
She is the famous voice teacher. Besides, I see no reason for a practicing
attorney to work in a piano bar to pay for voice lessons. I don't believe
that "lawyer" is a low-paying day job!
"His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading this
about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and beard? His
voice is surely as mature as it will ever be. His is a small, dulcet voice
with a thin top which reminds me of Tino Rossi (look him up). Instead of
trying to hype him onto opera, where he would be mediocre at best, I would
like him to stick with the light stuff, where he can be king. Just dump
the Brightman number, please!
P.S. Don't you just love these biographies made up by PR consultants?
Valfer
lennon fan wrote in message
<17401-39...@storefull-248.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
....I've never heard of Bocelli's people misrepresenting him as 'poor',
Janloves
>From: "VALFER" VAL...@email.msn.com
>Date: 7/10/2000 10:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <#L5Kq2n6$GA.64@cpmsnbbsa07>
>
>Voice lessons from Franco Corelli? Are you sure it's not Loretta Corelli?
>She is the famous voice teacher. Besides, I see no reason for a practicing
>attorney to work in a piano bar to pay for voice lessons. I don't believe
>that "lawyer" is a low-paying day job!
>
>"His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading this
>about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and beard? His
>voice is surely as mature as it will ever be. His is a small, dulcet voice
>with a thin top which reminds me of Tino Rossi (look him up). Instead of
>trying to hype him onto opera, where he would be mediocre at best, I would
>like him to stick with the light stuff, where he can be king. Just dump
>the Brightman number, please!
>
>P.S. Don't you just love these biographies made up by PR consultants?
>
>Valfer
>
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
bearing on the discussion of their voice. However, if you are so interested in
his financial background, watch the video "Night in Tuscany", as I believe it
does mention his father's vineyard and his machinery business, with interviews
with Andrea Bocelli himself. I don't believe I have ever heard him complain
about having a poor life. I don't believe being rich or poor monetarily should
matter myself. It is his talent that makes him rich.
As far as his graying temples and beard, that is only outward. The outward
appearance has nothing to do with how you personally feel in your heart. I am
the same age as Bocelli, but I certainly don't feel it. I know I have many more
miles to go;-). I feel AB 's voice has improved greatly and will continue to do
so. You don't just die at forty these days, life is just beginning. If people
thought as you, how depressing that would be.
Also, I do not believe Signor Bocelli sang in piano bars "just" for the
money, but for the exposure. Though,, not ALL lawyers are successful, depending
on what type of law you practice. Thank God his voice was discovered. The world
of music IMO is much better for it.
lennon fan
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/index.htmlGroup: rec.music.opera Date: Mon,
Jul 10, 2000, 10:52am From: VAL...@email.msn.com (VALFER) Re: What is
the allure of andrea Bocelli's voice?
Corelli? She is the famous voice teacher.
No, it was Franco Corelli. He gave voice lessons too.
Besides, I see no reason for a practicing attorney to work in a
piano bar to pay for voice lessons. I don't believe that "lawyer" is a
low-paying day job!
So you are familiar with the fees of the Italian attorney?
"His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading
this about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and
beard?
ageist.
His voice is surely as mature as it will ever be.
wrong.
His is a small, dulcet voice with a thin top which reminds me of Tino
Rossi (look him up).
Only in your opinion, of course.
Instead of trying to hype him onto opera, where he would be mediocre at
best, I would like him to stick with the light stuff, where he can be
king.
He already is king of the Italian popular song. It's Andrea Bocelli who
wants to sing Opera, not anyone 'hyping' him onto anything.
Just dump the Brightman number, please!
and give up the standing ovations? Not on your life.
P.S. Don't you just love these biographies made up by PR consultants?
such as?
HelenMynrd
give me extra money for my life (three children, no support money) and also
because it was fun.(a bit smokey at the time...and somewhat of a wild life for
me, but I learned from it) I did make a few contacts from it.....one a TV
station announcer heard me and asked me to sing on TV..so.....whatever, I am
sure that Andrea Bocelli sang there because he had the knowhow to do so, and I
am sure that it led to many opportunities for him. He did study with Franco
Corelli, and his voice is enchanting and many many love it. He had a bit of
trouble in the last concerts but I think mainly the reason is that he has been
overbooked and needs some recoup time.... It does no good to write anything
positive about him on these boards. (OO and r.m.o.) but we will stand up for
him, no matter what! Love and keep singing....Hey....especially ...let's have
a little love stuff around here......HelenM (Valfer, I respect your posts so
much, but you are really nasty about Bocelli...Hey..I taught Sergio Franchi's
daughter voice for some time......He was a great singer too.....Bocelli is
BOCELLI.....not Pav, not Sergio, not Corelli.......just plain Bocelli)
Andre Edouard
AE
Mark D. Lew wrote:
> Responding to Valfer:
>
> > > "His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading
> > > this about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and
> > > beard?
>
> In article <16841-39...@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
>
> > ageist.
>
> You and Janloves have both misinterpreted Valfer's comment. We have no
> prejudice against any singer based on age; Jerome Hines and Nicolai Gedda
> are both active well into their 70s and they are universally praised on
> this group.
>
> Valfer was responding to the comment that Bocelli's voice is "developing".
> Perhaps you mean something different by this term, but in the opera world
> when you say a voice is developing, we assume you're referring to the
> process of physical maturation which changes the quality of a voice. It's
> not a matter of artistic development; it's a physiological fact. It
> affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it continues into
> the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears to be beyond the
> age where vocal development is relevant.
>
> mdl
lennon fan
mark...@earthlink.net (Mark D. Lew) Re: What is the allure of
andrea Bocelli's voice?
"His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading
this about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and
beard?
In article <16841-39...@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
ageist.
You and Janloves have both misinterpreted Valfer's comment. We have no
prejudice against any singer based on age; Jerome Hines and Nicolai
Gedda are both active well into their 70s and they are universally
praised on this group.
Valfer was responding to the comment that Bocelli's voice is
"developing". Perhaps you mean something different by this term, but in
the opera world when you say a voice is developing, we assume you're
referring to the process of physical maturation which changes the
quality of a voice. It's not a matter of artistic development; it's a
physiological fact.
It seems to me that there are different levels of physical maturation
that go beyond what you describe below:
It affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it
continues into the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears
to be beyond the age where vocal development is relevant.
relevant, or even possible? Now, if Valfer and you both detest Bocelli,
well, ok, whatever. I don't share your taste in music, as I'm sure you
don't share mine. I have nothing against anyone who doesn't like Bocelli
for whatever reason. We all hear different things in the human voice
that appeal to us or not. I like Bocelli, think he sings Operatic arias
well, has an Operatic side to his popular music voice I find unique and
irresistable, and voice my opinion. I don't ask that anyone share it,
but if blatant untruths are libeled against Bocelli I'll try to correct
it, as I see it, if possible. I've talked to enough serious Opera lovers
who like him a lot to know that I'm not the only one. His concerts sell
out at exorbitant rates, he moves thousands of people at each show with
his voice. If it weren't so, he would lose his audience and be seen as a
flash in the pan, and that would have happened last year (after a 15
minute flash of popularity lasting 18 or so months) but back to the
voice, he is now using the best voice coaches in the world to help him
strengthen and project. He practices 2-3 hours a day, and is devoted to
improving. I think he's an inspiration to people to strive and improve.
I could write an essay about him but I'll end here. People can love
Opera but devote their attentions to other musics and reserve Opera as a
special part, but only a part of their lives. If others wish to live
Opera with their entire being great, but I do that with other musics as
well, so it's really just apples/clouds to compare the importance of
fandom between the 2. I love Andrea Bocelli as I love many artists,
Caruso, Billie Holiday, Janis Joplin, Fab4, Pink Floyd alike and think
all their voices are great. Long live diversity in music.
lennonfan
mdl
VALFER
If I lose, I'm a ninny. Anyway, I'm an idiot for trying!
I don't believe there is an iota of meanness in what I write about Andrea
Bocelli. First - If I were to choose a voice teacher, Sra. Corelli would be
a high priority. She is a world-renowned voice teacher. Second - I have
respect for lawyers. It's an extremely difficult academic discipline.
Also, they tend to earn good money. I have every reason to believe Sig.
Bocelli an intelligent and talented man, quite capable of succceeding in the
legal field. Third - I have listened to and enjoyed every record Tino Rossi
ever made. A voice not being suitable for opera does not make it
second-rate! Finally - my temples and beard are grey, and my voice is
mature enough. I speak from experience, my friends, not from
public-relations copy.
Could it be true that the King is wearing no clothes?
Cordially,
Valfer
Mark D. Lew
> > "His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading
> > this about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and
> > beard?
In article <16841-39...@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
> ageist.
You and Janloves have both misinterpreted Valfer's comment. We have no
prejudice against any singer based on age; Jerome Hines and Nicolai Gedda
are both active well into their 70s and they are universally praised on
this group.
Valfer was responding to the comment that Bocelli's voice is "developing".
Perhaps you mean something different by this term, but in the opera world
when you say a voice is developing, we assume you're referring to the
process of physical maturation which changes the quality of a voice. It's
not a matter of artistic development; it's a physiological fact. It
affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it continues into
the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears to be beyond the
age where vocal development is relevant.
mdl
Mark D. Lew
lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
> It seems to me that there are different levels of physical maturation
> that go beyond what you describe below:
>
> > It affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it
> > continues into the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears
> > to be beyond the age where vocal development is relevant.
>
> relevant, or even possible? Now, if Valfer and you both detest Bocelli,
> well, ok, whatever. I don't share your taste in music, as I'm sure you
> don't share mine.
Well, I thought I covered this last time, but I'll try again.
First of all, I don't detest Bocelli. I don't particularly enjoy his tone,
but I appreciate his charisma and interpretation and I admire his
dedication. And in any case, I always respect another person's taste, even
when it differs with my own. This is all besides the point. You're arguing
as if this were a debate about Bocelli's talent. There are plenty such
arguments elsewhere, but that was never the point here.
This all came out of a simple miscommunication resulting from the fact that
there are basic terms familiar to everyone in the opera business but
unfamiliar to many people outside of it. My post was intended to correct
that miscommunication.
Yes, of course, there is all sorts of physical maturation that happens
throughout a human being's entire life. Nevertheless, certain physical
changes happen at certain times. If we were talking about basketball
players, and I were to say, "He's 5'10" and he's still growing", that would
be a reasonable statement to make about a 16-year-old high school player,
because he could very likely continue to grow and might be 6'0" or taller
before he's done growing. If I were to make the same statement about a
four-year veteran in the NBA, someone would be quite right in retorting
"that's nonsense; he's 25 years old, his growing years are over." This is
not an insult to the player, and it doesn't imply that he can't become a
better player or a better person, it's just a statement of biological fact.
One frequently hears Bocelli's voice discussed as if it were a young
instrument still undergoing basic physiological changes. It is not. Up to a
certain age, the tissue and musculature in the vocal apparatus continue to
thicken, resulting in changes in the sound of the voice. Beyond that age,
this physical development ceases. From both scientific inquiry and from
centuries of vocal teaching handed down over the generations, we have a
very good idea of the age range at which this happens. That is what Valfer
meant when he said that Bocelli's voice is not "developing" and it is as
"mature" as it's going to get. He was not calling Bocelli immature nor
saying Bocelli is incapable of further improvement. Most of the readers of
this group understood exactly what he meant because it's common terminology
in the opera business. You and Janloves seem to have misinterpreted it as
an insult.
I'm not going to say that our definitions are right and yours is wrong.
That would just be petty semantics. I just want to help you understand what
is being said. If you're going to object to insults made to Bocelli, those
objections should be saved for those posts which really are insults (as you
know, there are plenty), and not those which aren't.
mdl
dtritter
any good to the named recipients? permit me to express some doubt.i
suspect it will have the same force and effect as suggesting to gabriel
bocanegra that the fifteen greatest singers of the 20th century were not
named cheryl studer.
dft
lennon fan
lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
It seems to me that there are different levels of physical maturation
that go beyond what you describe below:
It affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it
continues into the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears
to be beyond the age where vocal development is relevant.
relevant, or even possible? Now, if Valfer and you both detest Bocelli,
well, ok, whatever. I don't share your taste in music, as I'm sure you
don't share mine.
Well, I thought I covered this last time, but I'll try again.
First of all, I don't detest Bocelli. I don't particularly enjoy his
tone, but I appreciate his charisma and interpretation and I admire his
dedication. And in any case, I always respect another person's taste,
even when it differs with my own. This is all besides the point. You're
arguing as if this were a debate about Bocelli's talent. There are
plenty such arguments elsewhere, but that was never the point here.
This all came out of a simple miscommunication resulting from the fact
that there are basic terms familiar to everyone in the opera business
but unfamiliar to many people outside of it. My post was intended to
correct that miscommunication.
Yes, of course, there is all sorts of physical maturation that happens
throughout a human being's entire life. Nevertheless, certain physical
changes happen at certain times. If we were talking about basketball
players, and I were to say, "He's 5'10" and he's still growing", that
would be a reasonable statement to make about a 16-year-old high school
player, because he could very likely continue to grow and might be 6'0"
or taller before he's done growing. If I were to make the same statement
about a four-year veteran in the NBA, someone would be quite right in
retorting "that's nonsense; he's 25 years old, his growing years are
over." This is not an insult to the player, and it doesn't imply that he
can't become a better player or a better person, it's just a statement
of biological fact.
One frequently hears Bocelli's voice discussed as if it were a young
instrument still undergoing basic physiological changes. It is not. Up
to a certain age, the tissue and musculature in the vocal apparatus
continue to thicken, resulting in changes in the sound of the voice.
Beyond that age, this physical development ceases. From both scientific
inquiry and from centuries of vocal teaching handed down over the
generations, we have a very good idea of the age range at which this
happens.
Here I have a problem. Life expectancy at the turn of the last century
was, what, 40's for the human male? That would make all physical
maturation take place at an earlier age, would it not? I can accept that
I've mis-interpreted Valfer's remarks, if indeed as you say he meant the
normal physical maturing process that occurs with growing up, but what
I'm not sure about is that there is this cut-off point for voice
maturation. I think Caruso sounds pretty awful in his earliest
recordings. His later recordings have a warmth and maturity that are
completely lacking in the very early records (IMO). I think the
recordings done in his last years show the most vocal maturity, with
deeper tones than what can be heard in his earliest. As far as Bocelli,
I hear an incredible difference between his early recordings (Romanza,
Viaggio Italiano) and his more recent (Sogno, Sacred Arias) and this is
also apparent to me hearing his live concert voice (both amplified and
unamplified many times) which I've recorded each time.
That is what Valfer meant when he said that Bocelli's voice is not
"developing" and it is as "mature" as it's going to get. He was not
calling Bocelli immature nor saying Bocelli is incapable of further
improvement. Most of the readers of this group understood exactly what
he meant because it's common terminology in the opera business. You and
Janloves seem to have misinterpreted it as an insult.
I'm not going to say that our definitions are right and yours is wrong.
That would just be petty semantics. I just want to help you understand
what is being said. If you're going to object to insults made to
Bocelli, those objections should be saved for those posts which really
are insults (as you know, there are plenty), and not those which aren't.
I don't object to insults about Bocelli...we all have our loves and
hates. The fact that people don't like him doesn't bother me at all,
really and truly. I object to libelous untruths, tho. Bocelli practiced
law for all of 1 year. This was really done to appease his parents, as
in spite of it all he followed his dream of singing professionally.
Corelli trained him and Pavarotti exposed him to the world stage. Not
that I trust whatever these singers say, but doesn't it seem that for
these great tenors to support Bocelli and praise him that maybe, just
maybe there's something there? If some people here don't hear it,
there's not much to say. I do know, for a fact, however, that there are
some very serious lovers of the art on this board who also love Bocelli,
who've told me in email, and really there are quite a few of them, but
they don't have the inclination to get into the flame wars over him.
Neither do I, truth be told. If I misunderstood Valfer's intentions I do
indeed apologise. I didn't get that impression from his post, which
seemed concerned more with slams against him than any honest fair
appraisal of his strengths and weaknesses. I've never seen Bocelli as
'perfect' but I do see him as an intellegent man with a great talent
that is making a difference in the world, and I'm happy to be one amoung
millions who celebrate that. Many of the great conductors of the world
are working behind him, and I really don't think it's all just for hype
and money. I think they see his ability, and are trying to help him
achieve his goals.
lennonfan
mdl
VALFER
selective deafness? Now some fan says I hate Bocelli. I don't hate
Bocelli. The only hatred in my heart is for burnt garlic and overcooked
pasta! Everything and everyone else, I either like or not. Remember the
flaming I got from our friend a few weeks ago for not bowing down in
obeissance before Ms. Studer? Wow! Being a fanatic must be such a dull
existence! I bet sponges have a wider variety of interests.
Valfer
With my apologies to sponges.
dtritter wrote in message <396AF3C0...@bway.net>...
Karen Mercedes
> Valfer was responding to the comment that Bocelli's voice is "developing".
> Perhaps you mean something different by this term, but in the opera world
> when you say a voice is developing, we assume you're referring to the
> process of physical maturation which changes the quality of a voice. It's
> not a matter of artistic development; it's a physiological fact. It
> affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it continues into
> the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears to be beyond the
> age where vocal development is relevant.
>
Perhaps the original poster was referring to Bocelli's technical
development, not his physical development. It seems to me that if Bocelli
truly hopes for an opera career, several more years of technical
development are still required before he will be truly prepared for this.
Fortunately for him, his superstar status seems to qualify him to sing
opera in major houses like the Chicago Lyric Opera without having to go
through the same technical development as the rest of us.
Karen
Karen Mercedes
> Please allow me to add - Isn't it amazing how fanaticism can cause highly
> selective deafness? Now some fan says I hate Bocelli. I don't hate
> Bocelli. The only hatred in my heart is for burnt garlic and overcooked
> pasta! Everything and everyone else, I either like or not. Remember the
> flaming I got from our friend a few weeks ago for not bowing down in
> obeissance before Ms. Studer? Wow! Being a fanatic must be such a dull
> existence! I bet sponges have a wider variety of interests.
Unless they're overcooked with too much burnt garlic.
KM
Who would add "cheap, waxy American chocolate" to the list of items that
stir hatred in her heart.
ctb
"Mark D. Lew" wrote
<Much good stuff snipped>
> One frequently hears Bocelli's voice discussed as if it were a young
> instrument still undergoing basic physiological changes. It is not. Up to
a
> certain age, the tissue and musculature in the vocal apparatus continue to
> thicken, resulting in changes in the sound of the voice. Beyond that age,
> this physical development ceases.>
Excellent post. I agree in general with your comments on physiological
development. However it is well known that muscles can be developed beyond
the state that is achieved by 'ordinary' use. This is true even of the
pharyngeal musculature that positions the throat cavities for tonal
amplification or resonance. Developing, coordinating, and increasing the
tonicity of the vocal muscles is a process that is viable beyond the age
where 'ordinary' muscular development has ceased. Muscles grow and
strengthen by being stressed and nourished, even in individuals of advanced
age.
Regards,
ctb
Terrymelin
musical, one part interest in anything that appears on PBS as worthy, one part
a person who probably has a television in each room of their trailer, and an IQ
of about 75 and you'd about have it.
Terry Ellsworth
Janloves
>Message-id: <markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>
>
>Responding to Valfer:
>
>> > "His voice is developing and becoming more secure..." I keep reading
>> > this about Bocelli. Has nobody else noticed his graying temples and
>> > beard?
>
>lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
>
>> ageist.
>
>You and Janloves have both misinterpreted Valfer's comment. We have no
>prejudice against any singer based on age; Jerome Hines and Nicolai Gedda
>are both active well into their 70s and they are universally praised on
>this group.
>
>Perhaps you mean something different by this term, but in the opera world
>when you say a voice is developing, we assume you're referring to the
>process of physical maturation which changes the quality of a voice. It's
>not a matter of artistic development; it's a physiological fact. It
>affects every singer in his or her 20s, and for many men it continues into
>the mid-30s. Valfer was suggesting that Bocelli appears to be beyond the
>age where vocal development is relevant.
>
>
>
>>>>>>
I didn't misunderstand, and I disagree with him. I don't think there is a
SET age, it depends on the person.
Janloves
>Date: 7/11/2000 10:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000711105505...@ng-fd1.aol.com>
Well gee, you must be president of the fan club then.
si...@webtv.net
world needs more people like you whose reading comprehension is limited
so that you end up responding only to what you think you read rather
than what was actually said. Don't ever let facts, years of study, or
rational thought ever stop you from expressing yourself. Your physic
abilities that let you know what Bocelli is feeling and thinking when
you see him on a television screen are so much more accurate. You go
girl! John
Janloves
>Date: 7/11/2000 1:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <7601-396...@storefull-126.bryant.webtv.net>
am saying, is that *I* feel it depends on the person's inner drive, as to when
THEY feel they have matured enough in any particular pursuit. I don't think you
can say that just because a person reaches a certain age, that they can go no
further in attaining a dream they might have. Physically or otherwise. I feel
this way about Bocelli's voice, and believe he can certainly improve it and
make it stronger beyond what it is already.
You bet I will never change. I would much rather be an idealistic romantic,
who believes in ALL possibilities, than a stuffy, obnoxious snob who uses their
"facts" to judge every situation and everybody.
dtritter
Janloves wrote:
>Oh please, spare me your "education" speech. It is getting redundant. All I> am saying, is that *I* feel it depends on the person's inner drive, as to when> THEY feel they have matured enough in any particular pursuit. I don't think you> can say that just because a person reaches a certain age, that they can go no> further in attaining a dream they might have. Physically or otherwise. I feel> this way about Bocelli's voice, and believe he can certainly improve it and> make it stronger beyond what it is already.> You bet I will never change. I would much rather be an idealistic romantic,> who believes in ALL possibilities, than a stuffy, obnoxious snob who uses their> "facts" to judge every situation and everybody.
hooray!!!
as jesse jackson has been heard to say, "keep hope alive."
now that i have almost reached maturity [66 and jes' on the threshold],
i can dream my dreams, singing the title role in don giovanni at the
met, opposite some nubile rethberg clone, who will succumb to my sexual
wiles both on and offstage [sound familiar, pinza fans?].
that's MY feeling and i'll stick with it, because i don't want to be a
stuffy obnoxious snob mired in facts. i am forever in romantic jan's
debt, for liberating me from reality.
and right after my met don giovanni, i shall toe the starting mark to
essay my sub-four-minute mile. i think i'm just on the verge of
realizing my dream. good thing i'm not a tenor, or my dream would
conflict with bocelli's. then where would he be?
years ago, when norman vincent peale's "the power of positive thnking"
was all the rage, we were told of a high jumper who, through his
positive thinking, set a new world record. one wag suggested the
terrible possibility of two positive thinkers in the same meet. they'd
probably still be jumping.
one last question, jan: have you always undressed in public, or are you
just doing it for this ng?
dtritter
jan is "not accepting mail from this sender."
don't confuse me with facts. my mind's made up.
res ipsa loquitur.
Terrymelin
>Well gee, you must be president of the fan club then.
Boy, that's such a witty comeback. Just what I'd expect from an IQ-challenged
Bocelli lover. Who does your "witty retort" writing for you? James Carville?
Adam Sandler?
Terry Ellsworth
Benjamin Rochefort
> years ago, when norman vincent peale's "the power of positive thnking"
> was all the rage, we were told of a high jumper who, through his
> positive thinking, set a new world record. one wag suggested the
> terrible possibility of two positive thinkers in the same meet. they'd
> probably still be jumping.
ROTFLMAO !!!
ctb
"Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote
Well, Mr. Ellsworth, first you wrote:
"The allure of Bocelli's voice? Well take one part ignorance of anything
musical, one part interest in anything that appears on PBS as worthy, one
part
a person who probably has a television in each room of their trailer, and an
IQ
of about 75 and you'd about have it", which was not witty at all, only
insulting. Jan's riposte *was* witty and spot on. Is it getting warm in
here?
ctb
Karen Mercedes
> That a girl Jan! Stay just the way you are-don't ever change. The
> world needs more people like you whose reading comprehension is limited
> so that you end up responding only to what you think you read rather
> than what was actually said. Don't ever let facts, years of study, or
> rational thought ever stop you from expressing yourself. Your physic
Indeed, some of the outpourings on this thread do seem to have been
induced by the writer's having taken a strong purgative. :)
> abilities that let you know what Bocelli is feeling and thinking when
> you see him on a television screen are so much more accurate. You go
> girl! John
KM
Karen Mercedes
> one last question, jan: have you always undressed in public, or are you
> just doing it for this ng?
I've been thinking that this thread ought to be moved over to
alt.sex.bocelli...
Janloves
>Date: 7/11/2000 5:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8kg52i$5ck$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>
Terrymelin
>alt.sex.bocelli...
To quote the immortal Charles Laughton (via Billy Wilder): "what a nauseating
prospect."
Terry Ellsworth
Oisk17
appealing, and Peale appaling."?
Regards,
Paul
dtritter
Oisk17 wrote:
> Wasn't it Adlai Stevenson who said that in matters of religion "I find Paul> appealing, and Peale appaling."?
yes, and thanks for the wonderful reminder.
Mark D. Lew
> nice, good natured and informative [or should be] post, mark. will it do
> any good to the named recipients? permit me to express some doubt. [...]
I think the discussion has been worthwhile.
I'm looking forward to what ensues when someone makes a complaint like:
"How can you say that Ms Xyz is not a 'dramatic' soprano?? She's a
wonderful actress. Did you see her performance in ABC? The drama was
amazing."
mdl
Mark D. Lew
lenn...@webtv.net (lennon fan) wrote:
> Here I have a problem. Life expectancy at the turn of the last century
> was, what, 40's for the human male? That would make all physical
> maturation take place at an earlier age, would it not?
No, it would not. Life expectancy is increasing because better health
practices has (on average) added years to the end of people's lives [1]. It
is not due to a later maturation process. In fact, the reverse is the case.
In the wealthier parts of the world, there is a slight trend toward earlier
physical maturation, presumably due to better nutrition.
> I can accept that
> I've mis-interpreted Valfer's remarks, if indeed as you say he meant the
> normal physical maturing process that occurs with growing up, but what
> I'm not sure about is that there is this cut-off point for voice
> maturation. I think Caruso sounds pretty awful in his earliest
> recordings. His later recordings have a warmth and maturity that are
> completely lacking in the very early records (IMO). I think the
> recordings done in his last years show the most vocal maturity, with
> deeper tones than what can be heard in his earliest. [...]
Well, again I think this is another semantic quibble. I mean to draw a
distinction between the physical development of the vocal tissue, which is
a natural process of human growth, and the sort of vocal improvement which
is a result of learning better vocal technique, exercising the relevant
muscles and learning how to use them better.
I don't know when Caruso was first recorded, but my understanding is that
he began his career in his early 20s. Thus, his voice was probably still
growing (in my sense of the term) for the first 10 years of his career. If
his voice deepened after that, it is due to something other than natural
maturation of vocal tissue. The obvious explanation would be that it is due
to a change in his vocal technique.
I happen to believe that the scope for technical improvement is immense. My
teacher is a master at reworking vocal technique, and I've seen astounding
results not just in singers who were having technical problems, but in
competent professional singers who sought to become even better amateurs
who were told they simply don't have a good instruments. As a result, I
never believe that it is impossible for a "small-voiced" singer to develop
a full operatic sound. If that's what Bocelli wants, then I hope he gets
it. (And I for one do hope that is his goal, though I imagine many others
would prefer him to stay the way he is.)
I'm rather sorry that KQED elected not to show the Bocelli special. Even
though I'm not a huge fan, based on comments from BOTH his fans and his
non-fans, I gather that his vocal technique has improved noticeably in the
past year or two. I would have liked to see that.
mdl
[1] It makes a big difference what one means by "life expectancy". I'm
discussing the age at which a normal healthy adult can expect to reach
barring accident. Life expectancy of this sort has continued to increase at
a modest pace. The statistic which sets life expectancy in the 40s at the
turn of the century is more properly called mean life span. This number has
increased dramatically, due mostly to a decrease in infant mortality.
Janloves
>Date: 7/11/2000 8:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000711204052...@ng-cl1.aol.com>
to you.
Terrymelin
>Oh come on, it isn't that bad. It's just like riding a bike...it comes back
>to you.
With Bocelli it would be like riding a pig I suppose. You'd be better qualifed
to tell us.
Terry Ellsworth
Andre Edouard
AE
Ed Rosen
Corelli in my ears, and I saw all of them live.
I think Bocelli has a pleasant sound, and I don't think I have to justify my likes
or dislikes.
There seems to be a dislike bordering on hatred for him here on rmo epecially. It
only our opinions.
I find his voice to be pleasing, and his manner of singing to be fine. I am
certainly not comparing him to the above mentioned tenors. But I think his voice
is well placed, and would carry in a theater without amplification. Friends of
mine heard him at the large Teatro Communle in Florence, and reported that they
had no trouble hearing him, with any amplification.
I also think he has a charm and charisma that is winning. I like his voice. So
shoot me. I think many operatic tenors with long careers have had less attractive
voices than Bocelli.
I do not think he is being pushed as the second coming of Caruso, or even
Pavarotti. He is what he is. When he sings in his "pop" voice I do not like it.
But his "operatic" voice suits me just fine.
So fire away, I am donning my asbestos suit.
Bestos,
Ed
Ed Rosen
that opinion.
Commspkmn
likes
or dislikes.
There seems to be a dislike bordering on hatred for him here on rmo epecially.
It
only our opinions.
>>
There are certain tenors who do seem to inspire such passions on rmo.
Ken
donpaolo
& Bergonzi.
Tenor discussions bring out the passions in us - as (I think, Karen M.)
suggested, we seem to take on their "idiotsyncracies" in discussing tenors.
DonPaolo
Commspkmn <comm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000712151030...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
Ed Rosen
Mark D. Lew
wrote:
> Only "certain" tenors? Hell, I think the only ones exempt seem to be Caruso
> & Bergonzi.
Gedda, too, I think. Even Bergonzi took a little heat after that Otello
episode.
mdl
Ancona21
>>
Even older: "Good Lord, man. You picked the ugliest one in the flock!"
Ancona21
Terrymelin
by others): he is presented to the public as a "classical artist." He clearly
is not this. He is a mediocre pop singer foisted on to a gullible public as
some sort of "classical artist" for the masses who think PBS at pledge time
legitamizes this sort of thing.
He's fine for singing pop songs and the like (and I'd rate him somewhere
between Wayne Newton and Jerry Vale) but when he heads in to classical
territory he is an abomination. The sad thing is that there are millions out
there who equate opera and classical singing with Bocelli. He should stick to
pop. Just like Domingo and Pav should've stuck to opera when they were mucking
around in pop stuff in the 70s and 80s.
As for fanatical hatred of Bocelli I think he must be stamped out as a
classical artist because he isn't one. And I think the fanatical adoration and
worship of him by some here on this newsgroup is far more obsessive and scary
than any vitriol aimed Bocelli's direction.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>state
>that opinion.
>
>Ed
Generally no. But when people with absolutely no knowledge of classical music
or opera give an opinion on Bocelli's singing of opera then that is just plain
ignorance.
Terry Ellsworth
Skip
"Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000712172613...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
Karen Mercedes
> "Better be careful, that pig is the sheriff's girl," goes the old, old joke.
> AE
>
> Terrymelin wrote:
>
> > From Janlovesbocelli:
> > >Oh come on, it isn't that bad. It's just like riding a bike...it comes back
> > >to you.
> >
> > With Bocelli it would be like riding a pig I suppose. You'd be better qualifed
> > to tell us.
> >
> > Terry Ellsworth
As visions of DELIVERANCE danced through their heads....
Karen Mercedes
-----
Ich sage euch: man muss noch Chaos in sich haben,
um einen tanzenden Stern gebaeren zu koennen.
- Friedrich Nietzsche, ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA
Karen Mercedes
> I do not think he is being pushed as the second coming of Caruso, or even
> Pavarotti.
He reminds me more of the second coming of Mario Lanza, with a large
dollop of Michael Crawford thrown in.
KM
Karen Mercedes
> pop. Just like Domingo and Pav should've stuck to opera when they were mucking
> around in pop stuff in the 70s and 80s.
I don't quite agree with this. I think Domingo did some wonderful
renditions of Spanish and Latin American pop songs. Hell, I even think he
was magnificent singing "An American Hymn" and "Perhaps Love" and "The
Impossible Dream" from MAN OF LA MANCHA.
So I fear I can only half agree with you (the Pav half).
Janloves
>Message-id: <20000712172854...@ng-cq1.aol.com>
knowledge of classical music or opera, when they do, is ignorant as well. Or,
people whose only recourse to a playful retort, is to insult. That certainly
doesn't make anyone an Einstein in my book.
Oisk17
>On 12 Jul 2000, Terrymelin wrote:
>
>> pop. Just like Domingo and Pav should've stuck to opera when they were
>mucking
>> around in pop stuff in the 70s and 80s.
>
>I don't quite agree with this. I think Domingo did some wonderful
>renditions of Spanish and Latin American pop songs. Hell, I even think he
>was magnificent singing "An American Hymn" and "Perhaps Love" and "The
>Impossible Dream" from MAN OF LA MANCHA.
>
>So I fear I can only half agree with you (the Pav half).
>
Karen, have you ever heard Pavarotti's record of Christmas music? Some of the
cuts are extremely good! (On the other hand, I did not admire his rendition of
"Volare."
Regards,
Paul
Steve Silverman
> classical artist because he isn't one. And I think the fanatical adoration
and
> worship of him by some here on this newsgroup is far more obsessive and
scary
> than any vitriol aimed Bocelli's direction.
Yes absolutely right. The man's clearly dangerous. Each time he opens his
mouth to sing he threatens to bring every cultural edifice we value crashing
to the ground. In a few years time nobody will even remember Caruso, Gigli,
Laur-Volpi, Bjoerling, di Stefano, Corelli, Domingo et al (Al was always the
best of the bunch in my book) It'll be goodnight Vienna for opera.
Actually, I would be surprised ifcivilisation itself isn't at risk from this
man. Let's not just stamp him out as a classical artist. Hanging, drawing
and quartering would be a safer bet.
Steve Silverman (st...@grifon.fsnet.co.uk)
Essex
England
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
voice there - such a pity movie success got in the way of
what MIGHT have been an operatic career.)
Karen Mercedes wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Ed Rosen wrote:
>
> > I do not think he is being pushed as the second coming of Caruso, or even
> > Pavarotti.
>
> He reminds me more of the second coming of Mario Lanza, with a large
> dollop of Michael Crawford thrown in.
>
Skip
Bocelli. The man sounds like he is in pain everytime I hear him
(belly-ache)?
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:396D3242...@earthlink.net...
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 07/12/2000 4:26 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000712172613...@ng-cq1.aol.com>
>
>The basic problem with Bocelli is this (as has been stated far more
>eloquently
>by others): he is presented to the public as a "classical artist." He clearly
>is not this. He is a mediocre pop singer foisted on to a gullible public as
>some sort of "classical artist" for the masses who think PBS at pledge time
>legitamizes this sort of thing.
>
>He's fine for singing pop songs and the like (and I'd rate him somewhere
>between Wayne Newton and Jerry Vale) but when he heads in to classical
>territory he is an abomination. The sad thing is that there are millions out
>there who equate opera and classical singing with Bocelli. He should stick to
>mucking
>around in pop stuff in the 70s and 80s.
>
>classical artist because he isn't one. And I think the fanatical adoration
>and
>worship of him by some here on this newsgroup is far more obsessive and scary
>than any vitriol aimed Bocelli's direction.
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"As for fanatical hatred of Bocelli I think he must be stamped out as a
classical artist because he isn't one."
This sentence with the screeching exclamation -- HE MUST BE STAMPED OUT --
bespeaks a philosophy of my-way-or-the-highway.
What is this high falutin "classical artist" supposed to mean? There was a
film, I forget the title, in which Sinatra sang "La ci darem la mano". He gave
no reason for Pinza to fear, but he did express a charming point of view
regarding this lovely tune.
Cesare Siepi singing Cole Porter is charming in its way, too, but not likely
to prevent anyone from enjoying Ella Fitzgerald's way with these songs.
The world is a big place, Terry. Time to "chill out" as they say.
==G/P Dave
Mark D. Lew
(Oisk17) wrote:
> Karen, have you ever heard Pavarotti's record of Christmas music? Some of the
> cuts are extremely good!
Pav's "O Holy Night" (aka Cantique de Noël, by A. Adam of Longjumeau fame)
is heavenly. But then, I don't consider that a pop song.
Commspkmn
renditions of Spanish and Latin American pop songs. Hell, I even think he
was magnificent singing "An American Hymn" and "Perhaps Love" and "The
Impossible Dream" from MAN OF LA MANCHA. >>
Dear Karen:
For what it's worth, Alfred Drake, the great Broadway star, agreed with you.
He cited Domingo and Frederica von Stade as the two opera singers he found most
adept in "crossover" repertoire.
Ken Meltzer
Commspkmn
film, I forget the title, in which Sinatra sang "La ci darem la mano".>>
"It Happened in Brooklyn."
<< Cesare Siepi singing Cole Porter is charming in its way, too, but not
likely
to prevent anyone from enjoying Ella Fitzgerald's way with these songs. >>
No, but it's a wonderful disc, all the same. Siepi sings those Cole Porter
songs with a luscious voice, nuance, and tremendous charm. I think it's one of
the finest crossover discs by an operatic artists. MYTO re-released it a few
years ago.
Ken Meltzer
Janloves
>Date: 7/13/2000 12:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8kji5f$uf9$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
>
>> As for fanatical hatred of Bocelli I think he must be stamped out as a
>> classical artist because he isn't one. And I think the fanatical adoration
>and
>> worship of him by some here on this newsgroup is far more obsessive and
>scary
>> than any vitriol aimed Bocelli's direction.
>
>mouth to sing he threatens to bring every cultural edifice we value crashing
>to the ground. In a few years time nobody will even remember Caruso, Gigli,
>Laur-Volpi, Bjoerling, di Stefano, Corelli, Domingo et al (Al was always the
>best of the bunch in my book) It'll be goodnight Vienna for opera.
>Actually, I would be surprised ifcivilisation itself isn't at risk from this
>man. Let's not just stamp him out as a classical artist. Hanging, drawing
>and quartering would be a safer bet.
>
>Steve Silverman (st...@grifon.fsnet.co.uk)
>
>Essex
>England
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
trance and I start chanting in a monotone voice, "Bocelli is all, there is no
other" over an over again... (Yes, that was meant to be completely sarcastic).
To even say anyone must be "stamped out" as a classical artist is just
ignorant to me. I certainly love Signor Bocelli's voice, but I have listened to
others and I do have other favourites. I love Mario Lanza's voice, I love
Luciano Pavarotti, I love Enrico Caruso, I love Franco Corelli, and I also
enjoy listening to opera. Right now Andrea Bocelli is my favourite, and while
he may not be as good as those I mentioned to some, he is nevertheless a
classical singer to me. In my honest opinion, I don't really care much for Jose
Carreras, but I would never say he should be stamped out. Others appreciate his
voice, and have that right. Scary, to sing the praises of a man who lifts your
spirit, and sincerely sings from his heart? Oh God yes, what is this world
coming to?
Terrymelin
>I believe when people presume that those who make such statements have no
blah, blah, blah.
Your very obssession with Bocelli is proof positive that you are completely
ignorant of what good classical singing is.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>
>
Exactly. That's the very audience (those lovelies in that film) that Bocelli is
intended to please. So on that level they've succeeded!
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>Bocelli. The man sounds like he is in pain everytime I hear him
>(belly-ache)?
His pain can't be anywhere near as great as the pain we all feel when we hear
the sound of that voice.
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>renditions of Spanish and Latin American pop songs. Hell, I even think he
>was magnificent singing "An American Hymn" and "Perhaps Love" and "The
For my money the very worst album that may have ever been recorded was the one
that Domingo did with John Denver in the early 1980s (late 70s). Boy, that one
was really something. Something awful, that is.
Terry Ellsworth
David Walsh
With respect to operatic voices singing pop or other cross-over music,
what is the problem? I've known many young singers in training who were
clearly operatic but could sing credibly in broadway musical style, folk,
pop and so on at cast parties and night club gigs. Why do we so seldom
see this in the most famous opera singers?
Dave Walsh
Matthew B. Tepper
Do you mean to compare Bocelli's voice with the squealing of a pig?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Janloves
>Date: 7/13/2000 10:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000713105216...@ng-cl1.aol.com>
truly don't like him? You don't HAVE to buy his music. You don't HAVE to watch
him on PBS. You don't HAVE to go to his concerts. So why would you make such a
comment? It makes no sense to me. If I truly despised the voice of a singer, as
you seem to despise Signor Bocelli's, then DON'T listen to him. Seems simple
enough to me.
Ancona21
I recently had the great good fortune to acquire a videotape of Richard
Burton's HAMLET, a film of the "final run-through" of the 1960s production.
FWIW, it is the most stunning performance of the role I have ever seen.
But enough about me. Was the "Alfred Drake" listed in the credits as Claudius
the selfsame Alfred Drake, the broadway star? If so, he has the distinction of
being the weakest link in an otherwise magnificent production. Absolutely no
notion of how to speak verse, all the more odd because the play was directed by
Gielgud, the most accomplished speaker of Elizabethan verse of the 20th
century.
Pat Finley, or some other knowledgeable Shakespearian, can you help here?
Private email if you like.
Ancona21
"Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you, trippingly on the
tongue; but if you mouth it, as many of your players do, I had as lief the
town-crier spoke my lines."
Commspkmn
truly don't like him? You don't HAVE to buy his music. You don't HAVE to watch
him on PBS. You don't HAVE to go to his concerts. So why would you make such a
comment? It makes no sense to me. If I truly despised the voice of a singer, as
you seem to despise Signor Bocelli's, then DON'T listen to him. Seems simple
enough to me. >>
I seem to recall this argument before on rmo, advanced with regard to another
tenor who inspires quite a bit of negative response around these parts.
I think your point is well taken, but others don't seem to buy it-at least with
regard to that other tenor.
Ken
Steve Silverman
"Terrymelin" <terry...@aol.com> wrote in message > >I believe when people
presume that those who make such statements have no
> Your very obssession with Bocelli is proof positive that you are
completely
> ignorant of what good classical singing is.
Your hysterical obsession with stamping out Bocelli and refusal to allow
that it is possible to enjoy him and still appreciate a Bergonzi or a
Bjoerling is proof positive that you are a bigoted control freak. And I
speak as someone who has no strong feelings either way about the man.
Have a nice day
Commspkmn
Burton's HAMLET, a film of the "final run-through" of the 1960s production.
FWIW, it is the most stunning performance of the role I have ever seen.
But enough about me. Was the "Alfred Drake" listed in the credits as Claudius
the selfsame Alfred Drake, the broadway star? >>
Yes.
Skip
music store, I have no choice when they play this crap and try to pass it
off as something special, or worse yet, a classical singer. I don't despise
Bocelli, I don't know him, what I do despise is the use of his blindness to
pass off his very limited singing talent.
"Janloves" <janl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000713112427...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: What is the allure of andrea Bocelli's voice?
> >From: terry...@aol.com (Terrymelin)
> >Date: 7/13/2000 10:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <20000713105216...@ng-cl1.aol.com>
> >
> >>I don't think Lanza on his worst day, could ever have sounded as awful
as
> >>Bocelli. The man sounds like he is in pain everytime I hear him
> >>(belly-ache)?
> >
> >His pain can't be anywhere near as great as the pain we all feel when we
hear
> >the sound of that voice.
> >
> >Terry Ellsworth
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
you
> truly don't like him? You don't HAVE to buy his music. You don't HAVE to
watch
> him on PBS. You don't HAVE to go to his concerts. So why would you make
such a
> comment? It makes no sense to me. If I truly despised the voice of a
singer, as
> you seem to despise Signor Bocelli's, then DON'T listen to him. Seems
simple
> enough to me.
maf1029
Skip wrote in message ...
<<. I don't despise Bocelli, I don't know him, what I do despise is the use
of his blindness to pass off his very limited singing talent.>>
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donpaolo
Go into a record store or a mall & what is blasting away on the speakers?
"Them".
Want to see a Met Forza, Fedora, Francesca, Fanciulla, who is there? "Him".
Take a look at the cover of Opera News or glance inside, whose puss is
leering at you? "Him".
Yes, "they" are indeed pushed & shoved & shot at you.
Just like the obnoxious battery rabbits - just keeps on going & going &
going.
Maledizione - where the Hell is the operatic valium, Giuseppe Di Stefano,
Jussi Bjoerling, Carlo Bergonzi!
Grrrrrrumph
DonPaolo
Commspkmn <comm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000713114750...@ng-cu1.aol.com...
> << Just curious here. But who is "forcing" you to listen to his voice, if
you
> truly don't like him? You don't HAVE to buy his music. You don't HAVE to
watch
> him on PBS. You don't HAVE to go to his concerts. So why would you make
such a
> comment? It makes no sense to me. If I truly despised the voice of a
singer, as
> you seem to despise Signor Bocelli's, then DON'T listen to him. Seems
simple
> enough to me. >>
>
Andre Edouard
Andre
Mark D. Lew wrote:
> In article <20000713005123...@ng-fb1.aol.com>, ois...@aol.com
> (Oisk17) wrote:
>
> > Karen, have you ever heard Pavarotti's record of Christmas music? Some of the
> > cuts are extremely good!
>
> Pav's "O Holy Night" (aka Cantique de Noėl, by A. Adam of Longjumeau fame)
Ancona21
the selfsame Alfred Drake, the broadway star? >>
Yes. >>
More's the pity, then. Thanks.
Ancona21
Commspkmn
All I can say, Paul, is that I guess I've had better luck than you in this
regard.
Best,
Ken
maf1029
Janloves wrote in message <20000713103621...@ng-cn1.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: What is the allure of andrea Bocelli's voice?
this man. Let's not just stamp him out as a classical artist. Hanging,
drawing
and quartering would be a safer bet.>>
mass marketed and hyped as "The Blind Guy Who Sings Opera."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> To even say anyone must be "stamped out" as a classical artist is just
ignorant to me.>>
thinking for themselves or using their own brains to evaluate AB for
themselves.
<<Right now Andrea Bocelli is my favourite, and while he may not be as good
as those I mentioned to some, he is nevertheless a classical singer to me.>>
See below.
<<In my honest opinion, I don't really care much for Jose Carreras, but I
would never say he should be stamped out.>>
Why not? I'm sorry he had leukemia, but he sucks.
<<Scary, to sing the praises of a man who lifts your spirit, and sincerely
sings from his heart? Oh God yes, what is this world coming to?>>
That's fine, if all you want from music is the performer's superimposed
emotional content. Sorry to say this, but the more discerningly one listens,
the more meaningful the experience, going beyond a simple, "I like it."
Commspkmn
Ancona21 >>
You're welcome悠 think.
Best,
Ken
maf1029
GRNDPADAVE wrote in message
<20000713045000...@ng-ck1.aol.com>...
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"As for fanatical hatred of Bocelli I think he must be stamped out as a
>classical artist because he isn't one."
>
>This sentence with the screeching exclamation -- HE MUST BE STAMPED OUT --
>bespeaks a philosophy of my-way-or-the-highway.
No, it does not. It is, however, a value judgment *by one person* of AB's
contribution to classical music. Also, those particular 5 words have a
different meaning without the qualifier "as a classical artisit," eh?
>What is this high falutin "classical artist" supposed to mean?>>
Please forgive Terry for expecting that someone billed as a classical singer
should demonstrate a certain level of excellence. Or should we just accept
whatever is mass marketed and shoved down our collective throats as "good
classical music"?
<< There was a film, I forget the title, in which Sinatra sang "La ci darem
la mano". He gave no reason for Pinza to fear, but he did express a
charming point of view regarding this lovely tune.>>
Kudos to the Chairman. So, is he now a classical singer?
<<The world is a big place, Terry. Time to "chill out" as they say.>>
But obviously not big enough. So, since Terry's opinion did not conform to
your standards, he should "chill out." Hmmm........that reeks of "my way or
the highway."
Janloves
>Date: 7/13/2000 2:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000713140455...@ng-fl1.aol.com>
played in one of them. What cruel fate. ;-).
Karen Mercedes
(formerly managed by WETA, our local public TV station, now apparently
owned by the Discovery Store which, I think, has also purchased The Nature
Company - mergers are alive and well). I don't know if you recall my
reporting my success at getting Borders to turn off their Bocelli CD when
I went shopping their at Christmas. So this time, I figured I'd beard the
lion in his den - LearningSmith has, after all, a direct public television
connection.
So in I went, and not only was the Bo-boy's plaintive keening blasting
over the sound system, but his big mug was being projected on the big
video screen at the back of the store. So I went to the cashier and tried
the "line" that had worked at Borders, i.e., "Would you like to make my
shopping experience at LearningSmith more pleasant?" As at Borders, she
first looked at me like I was nuts, but then asked how she could do that.
I told her that she could turn off the video/soundtrack that was now
playing, and replace it with anything other than Charlotte Church or Sarah
Brightman. She told me she couldn't do that. I asked to speak to the
manager. The manager came to the cash register. I repeated my request. She
looked at me like I was an extra on the X-Files. I told her that if she
DIDN'T turn off Bocelli, I would not shop there. She said fine, don't.
So I left.
This campaign may turn out to be harder than I thought.
Karen Mercedes
P.S. I recovered some of my _elan_ by going to Record Town and hiding all
the Bocelli CDs in the Bluegrass section.
KM
-----
Ich sage euch: man muss noch Chaos in sich haben,
um einen tanzenden Stern gebaeren zu koennen.
- Friedrich Nietzsche, ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA
My NEIL SHICOFF Website:
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/shicoff/shicoff.html
My Website:
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/index.html
Karen Mercedes
lennon fan
dal...@radix.net (Karen Mercedes) Re: What is the allure of andrea
Bocelli's voice?
(formerly managed by WETA, our local public TV station, now apparently
owned by the Discovery Store which, I think, has also purchased The
Nature Company - mergers are alive and well). I don't know if you recall
my reporting my success at getting Borders to turn off their Bocelli CD
when I went shopping their at Christmas. So this time, I figured I'd
beard the lion in his den - LearningSmith has, after all, a direct
public television connection.
So in I went, and not only was the Bo-boy's plaintive keening blasting
over the sound system, but his big mug was being projected on the big
video screen at the back of the store. So I went to the cashier and
tried the "line" that had worked at Borders, i.e., "Would you like to
make my shopping experience at LearningSmith more pleasant?" As at
Borders, she first looked at me like I was nuts, but then asked how she
could do that. I told her that she could turn off the video/soundtrack
that was now playing, and replace it with anything other than Charlotte
Church or Sarah Brightman. She told me she couldn't do that. I asked to
speak to the manager. The manager came to the cash register. I repeated
my request. She looked at me like I was an extra on the X-Files. I told
her that if she DIDN'T turn off Bocelli, I would not shop there. She
said fine, don't.
good for them! I would've said the same thing (and I worked in a record
store for quite a few years, too!)
So I left.
This campaign may turn out to be harder than I thought.
I sincerely hope so.
regards from lennonfan
Karen Mercedes
P.S. I recovered some of my _elan_ by going to Record Town and hiding
all the Bocelli CDs in the Bluegrass section.
donpaolo
a CD of the screeching Notlob! Can you just imagine?
Regards,
DonPaolo
Karen Mercedes <dal...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.SV4.3.96.100071...@saltmine.radix.net...
> Okay, I tried it again: I went to the LearningSmith store recently
> (formerly managed by WETA, our local public TV station, now apparently
> owned by the Discovery Store which, I think, has also purchased The Nature
> Company - mergers are alive and well). I don't know if you recall my
> reporting my success at getting Borders to turn off their Bocelli CD when
> I went shopping their at Christmas. So this time, I figured I'd beard the
> lion in his den - LearningSmith has, after all, a direct public television
> connection.
>
> So in I went, and not only was the Bo-boy's plaintive keening blasting
> over the sound system, but his big mug was being projected on the big
> video screen at the back of the store. So I went to the cashier and tried
> the "line" that had worked at Borders, i.e., "Would you like to make my
> shopping experience at LearningSmith more pleasant?" As at Borders, she
> first looked at me like I was nuts, but then asked how she could do that.
> I told her that she could turn off the video/soundtrack that was now
> playing, and replace it with anything other than Charlotte Church or Sarah
> Brightman. She told me she couldn't do that. I asked to speak to the
> manager. The manager came to the cash register. I repeated my request. She
> looked at me like I was an extra on the X-Files. I told her that if she
> DIDN'T turn off Bocelli, I would not shop there. She said fine, don't.
>
> So I left.
>
> This campaign may turn out to be harder than I thought.
>
donpaolo
DonPaolo
Mark D. Lew <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
> In article <8kigbp$cth$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>, "donpaolo"
<donp...@erols.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Only "certain" tenors? Hell, I think the only ones exempt seem to be
Caruso
> > & Bergonzi.
>
> Gedda, too, I think. Even Bergonzi took a little heat after that Otello
> episode.
>
> mdl
Terrymelin
>Do you mean to compare Bocelli's voice with the squealing of a pig?
LOL. You be the judge!
Terry Ellsworth
Terrymelin
>is proof positive that you are a bigoted control freak.
Bigoted? Bigoted against what? Bad singing? You see the problem when you use
incendiary words like "bigoted" is that they start to mean nothing when used in
silly contexts like this one.
Terry Ellsworth
maf1029
Karen Mercedes wrote in message ...
>Okay, I tried it again: I went to the LearningSmith store recently
>(formerly managed by WETA, our local public TV station, now apparently
>owned by the Discovery Store which, I think, has also purchased The Nature
>Company - mergers are alive and well). I don't know if you recall my
>reporting my success at getting Borders to turn off their Bocelli CD when
>I went shopping their at Christmas. So this time, I figured I'd beard the
>lion in his den - LearningSmith has, after all, a direct public television
>connection.
>
>So in I went, and not only was the Bo-boy's plaintive keening blasting
>over the sound system, but his big mug was being projected on the big
>video screen at the back of the store. So I went to the cashier and tried
>the "line" that had worked at Borders, i.e., "Would you like to make my
>shopping experience at LearningSmith more pleasant?" As at Borders, she
>first looked at me like I was nuts, but then asked how she could do that.
>I told her that she could turn off the video/soundtrack that was now
>playing, and replace it with anything other than Charlotte Church or Sarah
>Brightman. She told me she couldn't do that. I asked to speak to the
>manager. The manager came to the cash register. I repeated my request. She
>looked at me like I was an extra on the X-Files. I told her that if she
>DIDN'T turn off Bocelli, I would not shop there. She said fine, don't.
>
>So I left.
>
>This campaign may turn out to be harder than I thought.
Karen, what chutzpah!!!
>Karen Mercedes
>
>P.S. I recovered some of my _elan_ by going to Record Town and hiding all
>the Bocelli CDs in the Bluegrass section.
>
>KM
Now that's just plain evil. I'm impressed. (And it's not as if the teenaged
clerks would know to put them back, either........)
ctb
"Karen Mercedes" <dal...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.SV4.3.96.100071...@saltmine.radix.net...
> (formerly managed by WETA, our local public TV station, now apparently
> owned by the Discovery Store which, I think, has also purchased The Nature
> Company - mergers are alive and well). I don't know if you recall my
> reporting my success at getting Borders to turn off their Bocelli CD when
> I went shopping their at Christmas. So this time, I figured I'd beard the
> lion in his den - LearningSmith has, after all, a direct public television
> connection.
>
> So in I went, and not only was the Bo-boy's plaintive keening blasting
> over the sound system, but his big mug was being projected on the big
> video screen at the back of the store. So I went to the cashier and tried
> the "line" that had worked at Borders, i.e., "Would you like to make my
> shopping experience at LearningSmith more pleasant?" As at Borders, she
> first looked at me like I was nuts, but then asked how she could do that.
> I told her that she could turn off the video/soundtrack that was now
> playing, and replace it with anything other than Charlotte Church or Sarah
> Brightman. She told me she couldn't do that. I asked to speak to the
> manager. The manager came to the cash register. I repeated my request. She
> looked at me like I was an extra on the X-Files. I told her that if she
> DIDN'T turn off Bocelli, I would not shop there. She said fine, don't.
>
> So I left.
>
> This campaign may turn out to be harder than I thought.
>
>
> P.S. I recovered some of my _elan_ by going to Record Town and hiding all
> the Bocelli CDs in the Bluegrass section.>
Gutsy move Karen. We are all proud of you. So very very proud. Elan must be
preserved at all costs.
ctb