herva nelli-why???
Kolya
i have *really* tried to find some redeeming feature in herva nelli's
vocalism in the nbc broadcasts/recordings of otello, aida, falstaff and
ballo with toscanini. i find her desdemona the least objectionable,
followed by alice ford. there are some good moments in both, imo. i
can't say the same for her aida or amelia (just dreadful).
it's a shame, as these recordings have some wonderful singing (e.g.,
vinay in otello, valdengo in otello/aida, tucker in aida, stich-randall
in aida and falstaff, peerce in ballo, merrill in ballo), and the
benefit of toscanini's propulsive, authoritative conducting (and
generally excellent playing from the dryly recorded nbc orchestra).
of course, nelli is hardly the only inadequate principal (e.g., think of
eva gustavson as amneris--a total disaster imo). nevertheless, she
alone is common to all these sets-and that's four too many, imho.
does anyone know what was behind toscanini's decision to champion this
soprano?
does anyone care to provide a defense (rousing or otherwise) of this
soprano? have i just missed the boat on this soprano?
best, alan
John Lynch
Kolya wrote:
>
> i have *really* tried to find some redeeming feature in herva nelli's
> vocalism in the nbc broadcasts/recordings of otello, aida, falstaff and
> ballo with toscanini. i find her desdemona the least objectionable,
> followed by alice ford. there are some good moments in both, imo. i
> can't say the same for her aida or amelia (just dreadful).
>
> it's a shame, as these recordings have some wonderful singing (e.g.,
> vinay in otello, valdengo in otello/aida, tucker in aida, stich-randall
> in aida and falstaff, peerce in ballo, merrill in ballo), and the
> benefit of toscanini's propulsive, authoritative conducting (and
> generally excellent playing from the dryly recorded nbc orchestra).
The dryness was the result of recording in the RCA Building's Studio 8H,
which was designed acoustically for radio broadcasts, i.e. to block out
any extraneous noise and to absorb audience noises. There was hardly any
measurable reverberation time, so it was not suited to musical
performances. Compare NBC Symphony concerts from Carnegie Hall to hear
the difference in ambience between a radio station studio and a concert
hall.
<snip>
> does anyone know what was behind toscanini's decision to champion this soprano?
In those days such questions were left unanswered, no matter how high
the eyebrows rose.
--
John Lynch
GRNDPADAVE
>Kolya wrote:
>>
>> i have *really* tried to find some redeeming feature in herva nelli's
>> vocalism in the nbc broadcasts/recordings of otello, aida, falstaff and
>> ballo with toscanini. i find her desdemona the least objectionable,
>> followed by alice ford. there are some good moments in both, imo. i
>> can't say the same for her aida or amelia (just dreadful).
>>
Herva Nelli had a voice supple enough and sufficient tecvhnique to handle
Verdi's portamenti. I enjoy ALL of her recordings including her superb Verdi
Requiem of January, 1951.
-
She is ever the fine musician that Toscanini wanted in his singers. The voice
does not have the allure of Zinka Milanov or Leontyne Price. But she has all
the notes and enough dramatic conviction to make it work. She is a wonderful
team player. I think she infuses a certain amount of mischief into her Alice.
And she exhibits the right defensive dignity as Desdemona.
-
The only really objectionable singer in the Toscanini broadcasts I think is Eva
Gustafson.
-
Anyway that is my opinion and it may be at variance with the consensus. So be
it.
==G/P dave
Edward A. Cowan
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
> Herva Nelli had a voice supple enough and sufficient tecvhnique to
> handle
> Verdi's portamenti. I enjoy ALL of her recordings including her
> superb Verdi
> Requiem of January, 1951.
> -
> She is ever the fine musician that Toscanini wanted in his singers.
> The voice
> does not have the allure of Zinka Milanov or Leontyne Price. But she
> has all
> the notes and enough dramatic conviction to make it work. She is a
> wonderful
> team player. I think she infuses a certain amount of mischief into
> her Alice.
> And she exhibits the right defensive dignity as Desdemona.
Herva Nelli seems to have been selected by AT for his opera broadcasts (and
the Verdi Requiem) primarily by virtue of her availability. Especially in
1949, when casting _Aida_ at the Met, let alone elsewhere, was an "iffy"
matter, AT was lucky to have gotten the cast he had. (Still, the _Aida_
remains the least interesting of the Maestro's opera broadcasts, and I find it
grievously disappointing that it is the only one to have survived as a video.)
> -
> The only really objectionable singer in the Toscanini broadcasts I
> think is Eva
> Gustafson.
> -
Back in the mid-1950s when RCA-Victor first issued that 1949 broadcast of
_Aida_ (with corrections spliced in; the video is published as is, warts and
all), Decca/London issued around the same time a 1955 Norwegian broadcast of
_Götterdämmerung_ with Flagstad and Svanholm and, in the role of Waltraute,
this same Eva Gustavson (so spelled in both recordings). And here, as in the
_Aida_, was the same tendency to throw lines away by indifferent articulation
of the music. And there things stood until we got the video of the _Aida_
telecast, in which one can see the pretentious poses adopted by Gustavson to
accompany her dull singing. I guess Elmo or Harshaw were not available to
Toscanini on the dates of the broadcasts. --E.A.C.
Chas
Re Herva Nelli; my brother-in-law, who was an usher at NBC Studios reports
that Toscanini was deeply in love with Herva Nelli's cooking, especially her
lasagna. Go figure. Ciao Babes!
--
"Eschew Obfuscation"--- William F. Buckley
Kolya wrote in message <3539BBAF...@erols.com>...
>i have *really* tried to find some redeeming feature in herva nelli's
>vocalism in the nbc broadcasts/recordings of otello, aida, falstaff and
>ballo with toscanini. i find her desdemona the least objectionable,
>followed by alice ford. there are some good moments in both, imo. i
>can't say the same for her aida or amelia (just dreadful).
>
>it's a shame, as these recordings have some wonderful singing (e.g.,
>vinay in otello, valdengo in otello/aida, tucker in aida, stich-randall
>in aida and falstaff, peerce in ballo, merrill in ballo), and the
>benefit of toscanini's propulsive, authoritative conducting (and
>generally excellent playing from the dryly recorded nbc orchestra).
>
>of course, nelli is hardly the only inadequate principal (e.g., think of
>eva gustavson as amneris--a total disaster imo). nevertheless, she
>alone is common to all these sets-and that's four too many, imho.
>
>does anyone know what was behind toscanini's decision to champion this
>soprano?
>
Peter Scotto
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
>The only really objectionable singer in the Toscanini broadcasts I think is Eva
>Gustafson.
What about Sidor Belarsky as Rocco and that awful Fenton ( Antonio
Melandri or some such)? Nor was that fine singer Rose Bampton in very good
shape for Leonore. though it's not to be compared to Miss Gustafson- who
BTW reappeared as Waltraute on that unfortunate Norwegian
GOETTERDAEMMERUNG that Flagstad strong-armed Decca into releasing.
I think Nelli's Desdemona and Alice have some quiet virtues, but wish the
Maetsro had chosen Steber for the broadcasts- it certainly broke her heart
that, after he so liked her work as Marzelline, he never asked for
anything else. -David Shengold(dshe...@mhc.mtholyoke.edu)
GRNDPADAVE
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: herva nelli-why???
>From: Peter Scotto <psc...@mtholyoke.edu>
>Date: Sun, Apr 19, 1998 18:10 EDT
>Message-id: <353a2...@news.mtholyoke.edu>
Note that none of the singers you mention as being deficient ever repeated with
Toscanini.
-
Nelli was consistently re-engaged from 1947 through 1954. And if listened to
objectively, I think most would find her outstanding in all her roles. Her
BALLO offers real fright, akin to the opening of the "Libera me" episode in the
1951 Requiem.
-
Love that FALSTAFF more and more, especially after hearing the rehearsals.
Best singer in the cast was A.T. At 83 he had a magnificent voice. Hear his
"Ma se vuoi le spugnate..." Ah this great opera not yet the repertory work it
will surely one day become.
-
"Gaia commare de Windsor". Now I must get to hear Salieri's version. It got
great reviews in today's New York Times.
==G/P Dave
Kolya
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
> =====
> Herva Nelli had a voice supple enough and sufficient tecvhnique to handle
> Verdi's portamenti. I enjoy ALL of her recordings including her superb Verdi
> Requiem of January, 1951.
actually, i think i used to own a cheapie rca victrola tape of this performance;
with di stefano and siepi, right? i do not remember having trouble with her
soprano line in the same way i do with these opera recordings.
> -
> She is ever the fine musician that Toscanini wanted in his singers. The voice
> does not have the allure of Zinka Milanov or Leontyne Price.
i don't think you have to reach nearly that high on the pantheon of verdian
greats. imho, she doesn't have the (vocal, right) allure of late career maria
caniglia.
> But she has all
> the notes and enough dramatic conviction to make it work.
i'm not sure i agree with you here. i hear a soprano with *no* low notes to speak
of (though the middle register has more body), and adequately secure high notes
(though by the ballo recordings, these were faltering as well.)
"enough dramatic conviction to make it work" seems like very qualified praise. if
that's so, i agree.
> She is a wonderful
> team player. I think she infuses a certain amount of mischief into her Alice.
> And she exhibits the right defensive dignity as Desdemona.
yes, i like her best in these two recordings.-
> The only really objectionable singer in the Toscanini broadcasts I think is Eva
> Gustafson.
well, here, i would have to respectfully disagree.
> Anyway that is my opinion and it may be at variance with the consensus. So be
> it.
> ==G/P dave
thanks for your post; i was *hoping* for an alternative view (from mine, and
possibly the majority's).best, alan
Linda B. Fairtile
On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:52:30 GMT, "Chas" <pati...@teleport.com>
wrote:
>Re Herva Nelli; my brother-in-law, who was an usher at NBC Studios reports
>that Toscanini was deeply in love with Herva Nelli's cooking, especially her
>lasagna. Go figure. Ciao Babes!
Lasagna? But Toscanini's favorite food was soup, which he ate at
every meal.
--
Linda B. Fairtile
Astoria, New York
ta...@bway.net
Kolya
Peter Scotto wrote:
> grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
>
> >The only really objectionable singer in the Toscanini broadcasts I think is Eva
> >Gustafson.
>
> What about Sidor Belarsky as Rocco and that awful Fenton ( Antonio
> Melandri or some such)?
totally agree re. the fenton (antonio madassi). luckily, other conductors did not
all follow the toscaninian precedent of casting fenton as a (mediocre) character
tenor.
> Nor was that fine singer Rose Bampton in very good
> shape for Leonore.
i must respectfully disagree here. the fidelio is one of the *best* sung (all
around) toscanini sets on rca. while bampton does not match peerce or steber's
vocal authority as recorded here, she does nothing to dishonor the team. not a top
leonore, then, but very solid.
> though it's not to be compared to Miss Gustafson- who
> BTW reappeared as Waltraute on that unfortunate Norwegian
> GOETTERDAEMMERUNG that Flagstad strong-armed Decca into releasing.
has this been released (and is it complete)?
> I think Nelli's Desdemona and Alice have some quiet virtues, but wish the
> Maetsro had chosen Steber for the broadcasts
yes, steber's desdemona in 1947 would have sealed (imo) the otello as the great
otello on records (it is still great even with nelli's desdemona, which has its good
moments). was it in her repertoire by 1947?
> - it certainly broke her heart
> that, after he so liked her work as Marzelline, he never asked for
> anything else. -David Shengold(dshe...@mhc.mtholyoke.edu)
interesting, do you have a citation.
best, alan
Enrique Eskenazi
In article <353a2...@news.mtholyoke.edu>, Peter Scotto
<psc...@mtholyoke.edu> wrote:
>What about Sidor Belarsky as Rocco and that awful Fenton ( Antonio
>Melandri or some such)?
Idon't know Melandri's Fenton but I have some good recording with this
lirico-spinto tenor, whose voice resembled that of Aureliano Pertile. He
was quite good in Isabeau, Fedora, Turandot, Cavalleria, Ernani...from
this repertory, I guess he wouldn't have been an ideal Fenton. This
tenor (1891-1969) was very appreciated at the Buenos Aires' Teatro Colon
David
I for one remain eternally grateful that Toscanini in his wisdom cast
such a musical and thrilling singer as Herva Nelli in Ballo, Aida,
Otello, and Falstaff. She was miscast as Aida, a role too heavy for her
lirico-spinto voice, but never mind. No soprano has ever sung with more
conviction and character than Nelli. It's easy to imagine more
beautiful voices than Nelli's, but it would be impossible to find a
greater singing actress or a more compelling performer. She sang every
note with utter conviction. More important, her musicianship was
impeccable. And her voice was not really all that bad. Nor would
Toscanini have cast someone with a bad ear, whether or not he was
involved with her.
-david gable
janeh...@*no-spam*hotmail.com
"Chas" <pati...@teleport.com> wrote:
>Re Herva Nelli; my brother-in-law, who was an usher at NBC Studios reports
>that Toscanini was deeply in love with Herva Nelli's cooking, especially her
>lasagna. Go figure. Ciao Babes!
hmmmm.... I think he was more interested in her "desserts"
-- to reply by e-mail, remove the obvious
Charles Lipson
I think you got it backwards regarding Aida. The role was not too heavy for
her. She was too heavy for the role. The time I saw her in the role the
audience laughed when Radames tried to get his arms around her.
David wrote:
--
Charles S. Lipson
The people never give up their liberties
but under some delusion.
Edmund Burke
fabio.paol...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:52:30 GMT, "Chas" <pati...@teleport.com>
>
> >Re Herva Nelli; my brother-in-law, who was an usher at NBC Studios reports
> >that Toscanini was deeply in love with Herva Nelli's cooking, especially her
> >lasagna. Go figure. Ciao Babes!
>
> every meal.
>
> --
> Linda B. Fairtile
> Astoria, New York
> ta...@bway.net
fabiopaol...@yahoo.it