Samuel Ramey ... retirement ?
Sergio H. da Silva
should step down; the vibrato is totally out-of-control. How did he sound in
the house ?
Rinuccio4
should step down; the vibrato is totally out-of-control. How did he sound in
the house ? >>
There was a related thread recently... I did not hear the Nabucco, but i was in
Faust with Ramey at LOC this past season, and he sounded pretty good to me.
He's obviously past his prime, but still sounds better than most young basses,
IMHO. The Nabucco could easily have shown off flaws that were not as obvious
in the Faust.
SDC
David Melnick
I saw the same Faust and agree with you, Rinuccio. He was
the best thing about that production.
David
Knarf2768
Hungarian!
He sang a terrific run of Fausts in Chicago. The vibrato has slowed a bit but
the quality of the voice is still dark and rich with plenty of ring to carry it
to the upper balcony in our barn of an opera house here in Chicago. Could
someone show a liitle resepct for an amazing artist admittedly in the twilight
of his career? He'll retire when he's good and ready. Till then, how 'bout a
nice big cup of shut the fuck up?
Frank B
Leonard Tillman
>He's obviously past his prime, but still sounds
> better than most young basses, IMHO.
Absolutely. The same could be said of many of the greats in the latter
part of their careers.
Leonard Tillman
Charlie Handelman
to sound like a joke for 25 yrs...and then Jones and Zampieri belting out those
horrendous notes...a little 'beat' in the middle voice is not so bad..so Sammy
will be with us...I will speak to him tonight and we will have a great time..ch
My best, Charlie.
My Website dedicated to the vocal art is located at:
Charlie Handelman
most people...and he will NOT be retiring..ch
Leonard Tillman
<< After the MET Nabucco that only now I had time to listen to,
shouldn't Sammy
should step down; the vibrato is totally out-of-control. How did he
sound in the house ? >>
>There was a related thread recently... I did not
> hear the Nabucco, but i was in Faust with
> Ramey at LOC this past season, and he
> sounded pretty good to me.
>He's obviously past his prime, but still sounds
> better than most young basses, IMHO. The
> Nabucco could easily have shown off flaws
> that were not as obvious in the Faust.
>SDC
>I saw the same Faust and agree with you,
> Rinuccio. He was the best thing about that
> production.
>David
-------------------
>I might also point out that Sam recently sang
> "Blue Beard's Castle" in Hungarian!
>He sang a terrific run of Fausts in Chicago.
> The vibrato has slowed a bit but the quality of
> the voice is still dark and rich with plenty of
> ring to carry it to the upper balcony in our
> barn of an opera house here in Chicago.
> Could someone show a liitle resepct for an
> amazing artist admittedly in the twilight of his
> career? He'll retire when he's good and ready.
For some, having and showing respect is a total impossibility, as we've
seen here from the group's Olympic Provocateurs. For most of us, Mr.
Ramey is highly regarded, as he should be.
His vocal darkness and weight would lend authority to several roles
he hasn't, to my knowledge, yet performed, e.g., Padre Guardiano in
FORZA.
> Till then, how 'bout a nice big cup of shut the
> fuck up?
A beverage the group's Loudest, Bitterest, Foulest Gasbags can't
seem to even sip, let alone gulp, - whether on or (more typically) *off*
topic.
It's a certainty that their lips/gums will still be flapping in the
wind, --their wind--, when others, finally bored to the limit, have left
them wallowing in the dust with no one but one another to "high-five"
and share cretinous smirks with.
>Frank B
Leonard Tillman
"Apologies are due -- only when owed."
Sergio H. da Silva
The least you could do is show some respect as well by restraining in the
use of foul language.
In my original post I asked how he sounded in the house because the
microphone tends to exaggerate on the vibrato. If he sounded in the house as
he did on the broadcast then his career will probably have a few years but
not more than that. I saw Ramey live some years ago in Mefistofele (Boito)
and he was excellent, that is another reason I asked.
"Knarf2768" <knar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040423131330...@mb-m02.aol.com...
Sergio H. da Silva
should retire (notice it is a question and not an affirmation).
relax :-)
"Charlie Handelman" <plac...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040423142452...@mb-m28.aol.com...
Knarf2768
>shouldn't
>> >Sammy
>> >> should step down; the vibrato is totally out-of-control.
when did I trash Sammy in my original post ? ....just because I asked if
heshould retire (notice it is a question and not an affirmation). relax :-)
Sure sounded like trashing to me.
F
ML/NJ
Ramey for a change. I heard him in the house last year.
I heard the Nabucco broadcast this year; and I enjoyed both.
Maybe last year was better, but so what. Many threads here
make me feel like I'm listening to Snoop Doggie Dog and
enjoying it, which is a shame I think.
ML/NJ
Leonard Tillman
>Nice to see a few people saying some decent
> things about Ramey for a change. I heard him
> in the house last year. I heard the Nabucco
> broadcast this year; and I enjoyed both.
> Maybe last year was better, but so what.
Exactly. It's a moot point, and one best not dwelt on, with a singer
who's given us so many years of pleasure and is still going strong.
> Many threads here make me feel like I'm
> listening to Snoop Doggie Dog and enjoying
> it, which is a shame I think.
That's what they want to achieve: The smug gratification of making
others doubt their own tastes, and to subscribe instead to the arbitrary
gripes of few cranky self-appointed "experts", including several who
likely couldn't even find their cars' horns. :))
>ML/NJ
Leonard Tillman
"Apologies are sometimes due -- but only when owed, -- never to those
who, *themselves*, owe them, and never for what was deliberately
provoked."
AnMeinKlav
nice big cup of shut the fuck up?>>
Agreed, he was compelling in the LOC Faust despite the beat in his voice--his
high notes are still a wonder.
Although--I recently received an announcement in the mail that Ramey has joined
the faculty of Roosevelt University in Chicago as "Artist in Residence."
Perhaps the question of a post-operatic career *is* something that he has been
contemplating.
A Tsar Is Born
> I might also point out that Sam recently sang "Blue Beard's Castle" in
> Hungarian!
NOT a difficult part to sing. (Neither is Judith -- she barely gets to
warm up.)
> He sang a terrific run of Fausts in Chicago. The vibrato has slowed a bit but
> the quality of the voice is still dark and rich with plenty of ring to carry it
> to the upper balcony in our barn of an opera house here in Chicago. Could
> someone show a liitle resepct for an amazing artist admittedly in the twilight
> of his career? He'll retire when he's good and ready. Till then, how 'bout a
> nice big cup of shut the fuck up?
I wish he'd give half the performances to the people who can't stand
the way he sings any more. That would be menschlich. Now he sounds
like a dog in the manger -- he can't sing the music, and he won't let
anyone else have the roles. So we have to endure him.
THAT's the reason for the lack of respect. He doesn't seem to respect
us either. Just his paycheck.
Hans Lick
jszostaksr
'the roles' to? Sure the sound is a bit long in the tooth...not what it was
in his 30s...so why does that make him candidate for immediate retirement?
Many questions...many gripes...few answers. If you simply don't like
him...don't listen to him...is that a difficult thing?
Still...I don't see you in a long list of 'bashers'...you do say what you
mean and don't appear to dwell upon the vinegar as do a few others in RMO.
Yes...you do have the right to complain or make uncomplimentary comments
where you see fit...just don't let it spoil you day...or anyone else's for
that matter.
Sam's last engagements at LOC were...indeed...quite excellent...very well
received...and most justly so.
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
"A Tsar Is Born" <atsar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d4f8c75b.0404...@posting.google.com...
Alcindoro
up.)<
A fabulously ignorant comment. Aside from the difficulties in a non-speaker
singing in Hungarian... the role seems to require a low-set, dark bass voice,
and yet frequently ventures up into the high baritone regions... even Bartok
recognized this, providing alternate lines more congenial for a standard
basso... Judith has similar requirements -- it looks like a mezzo can handle
it, and yet the role must sound youthful, girlish... and then there is the
issue of the optional high C (written to be briefly screamed, actually)...
A Tsar Is Born
> Hans: You know this for a fact do you? And just who is he refusing to give
> 'the roles' to? Sure the sound is a bit long in the tooth...not what it was
> in his 30s...so why does that make him candidate for immediate retirement?
>
> Many questions...many gripes...few answers. If you simply don't like
> him...don't listen to him...is that a difficult thing?
Yes it is if I want to go to operas that are rarely given and he
insists on singing every performance. I don't mind the length of his
tooth -- it's the width of his wobble that kills.
He's had his day, and it's over. (I remember it well, those
Mefistofeles and Argantes and Assurs and Attilas -- and maybe the
first season of Zaccarias.) Someone should tell him before the
audiences forget their manners.
> Still...I don't see you in a long list of 'bashers'...you do say what you
> mean and don't appear to dwell upon the vinegar as do a few others in RMO.
> Yes...you do have the right to complain or make uncomplimentary comments
> where you see fit...just don't let it spoil you day...or anyone else's for
> that matter.
>
> Sam's last engagements at LOC were...indeed...quite excellent...very well
> received...and most justly so.
His last ones at the Met have been excruciating.
Hans Lick
Leonard Tillman
Hans Lick wrote:
>I don't mind the length of his tooth -- it's the
> width of his wobble that kills.
Though I disagree, I love that phrasing!
jszostaksr
quickly.
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
"A Tsar Is Born" <atsar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d4f8c75b.04042...@posting.google.com...
Operatunenity
>quickly.
Maybe he is an off and on warbler. I have seen older singers past their prime
do that, and so what. He has given enough in the past that people still
appreciate him and are willing to take the chance. People are entitiled to
their opinions and I see nothing wrong with that, but the persistence of Hans
Lick's pronouncements indicates to me a streak of mean spiritedness, or at the
very least uncalled for insensisitivity. What belabour it? What is the point?
I and many others are able to tolerate the fact that he is past his prime at
this point because he still has much to offer. If you can't tolerate it, that
is fine and good, but who are you to tell him it's time to hang it up?
Many singers give , each in their own way, from the kunst diva that shreds her
voice for her art, to the stimmdiva who relentlessly pursues every musical,
vocal and technical nuance. The good ones do leave their blood on the stage.
Many agents will take on a singer knowing full well that they will be burnt
out used up, thrown away and the next victim is taken on. These are the
workhorses of the opera. The ones that fill out the cast when you can't get the
best. The turnover is very high. Most burn out in their forties.
Then there are are singers of a higher awareness and calibre that manage to
stay the course, but their end is ultimately inevitable too. It's a very
competitive business, and all a singer has to do is be beyond their prime, and
agents and whomever else is pushing their singers will announce they are
already has beens.
The good news is that Sam Ramey has the respect of the international
community. He has the respect of his colleagues, and an audience that
appreciates not only what he has given them in the past, but what he can still
give them, despite the wobble that creeps in from time to time.
A well known hit and miss singer is Giuseppe Goaccomoni. When he is off it's
dreadful, and when he is on it's magnificent and reminiscent of the old school.
I have seen him sing some pretty formidable singers into the ground. I always
considered it worth the risk to get him on a good night because when he sang so
astonishingly well, it erased all my bad memories, and it was worth it.
Leonard Tillman
>The good news is that Sam Ramey has the
> respect of the international community. He
> has the respect of his colleagues, and an
> audience that appreciates not only what he
> has given them in the past, but what he can
> still give them, despite the wobble that creeps
> in from time to time.
It can be overlooked and considered as "to be expected", given its
inevitability. He's certainly no has-been, but continues to be a great
artist of the highest quality.
Jim OlsEn
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote
> It can be overlooked and considered as "to be expected", given its
> inevitability. He's certainly no has-been, but continues to be a great
> artist of the highest quality.
>
Holy Over-The-Top Hyperbole, Goober! Artists of the highest quality do not
have a wobble wide enough to dock the Queen Mary. Ramey had a fine career,
but artist of the highest quality? Jeezopeezo, get real.
Jim OlsEn
Ps: Would you like me to help you draft a public apology to Mr Silverman for
accusing him of incestuous pederasty?
jszostaksr
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
"Operatunenity" <operat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040425095701...@mb-m04.aol.com...
OndineUno
course the Met decides to do "Geriatric Opera" ala that sterling cast in Pav's
TOSCAs.
The latest craze: WOBBLE OPERA! oo
Charlie Handelman
opera..just hates people who love Sam and others..so the credibility is not
there..just a big joke...Imagine a 35 yr.great career being trashed by a piece
of filth...who cares??CH
Leonard Tillman
>The latest craze: WOBBLE OPERA!
Let's make it:
Wobbera!!!
How awful could it be?
REG
away, and found the wobble totally intrusive. If there are those who feel he
continues to be worthy of being honored by being on stage, I would have
hoped that he was given, and took, small character roles (although I don't
really think character delineation has much been his forte).
There's a separate post to be written about wobbling, and what I think is
the (largely) American tolerance for it, but that will wait, perhaps, for
another day, or at least the end of jet lag.
"Jim OlsEn" <seniorcu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UHRic.11618$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
David7Gable
>their opinions and I see nothing wrong with that, but the persistence of Hans
>Lick's pronouncements indicates to me a streak of mean spiritedness, or at
>the
>very least uncalled for insensisitivity.
With all due respect, I really don't see anything that would justify these
charges. In my opinion, Hans Lick is entitled to express his opinion that
Ramey should retire and to express his reasons for this opinion.
>What belabour it? What is the point?
Because this is precisely the forum for discussions of such things.
-david gable
David7Gable
But, Charlie, for better or worse, that is the listener's prerogative. Except
that "trashing" is really not the right word for what Hans Lick has done in
expressing his opinion of the current estate of Ramey's singing. It's not only
not the right word, it's an unfair description of his post.
-david gable