The "best" Trovatore posible? . It exist in recording?
Lucio F. Rodriguez
Corelli, Callas, Bastianini and Simionato?.
HenryFogel
>From: LFC...@webtv.net (Lucio F. Rodriguez)
>Date: 10/7/2001 4:11 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <6413-3B...@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
>
>Any body have an idea, about a "live" recording of '"TROVATORE', with
>Corelli, Callas, Bastianini and Simionato?.
>
I have a few ideas about such a recording. One is that it would be wonderful.
The second is that, unfortunately, it doesn't exist.
Henry Fogel
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 10/07/2001 7:22 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20011007082258...@mb-mh.aol.com>
If one substitutes Leontyne Price for Maria Callas, I think there is such a
recording. I believe it was released on Gala. The conductor is Herbert von
Karajan.
I had it and gave it away.
In my opinion, the best TROVATORE -- note complete and every role sung and
dramatized beautifully -- is the RCA recording: Domingo, Price, Cossotto,
Milnes, Giaiotti; Zubin mehta conducting.
==G/P Dave
REG
anyway about the wonderfu Romophone transfer of the 1930 Scala Trovatore
with Pertile, Granforte, Minighini-Cattaneo, all of whom seem to me first
rate interpreters, and Carena, (the soprano weak link), although she is not
so objectionable other than in running figurations (some of the downward
runs in the D'amor are sung more poorly than I've ever heard). ALL is
redeemed, whatever you otherwise object to, by the conducting, with
Nastrucci deputizing on most sides for Sabano. For every singer, every word
is clear and counts - I can forgive some of the smuddgy work for Granforte.
"GRNDPADAVE" <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011007083448...@mb-fg.aol.com...
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20011007083448...@mb-fg.aol.com:
> If one substitutes Leontyne Price for Maria Callas, I think there is
> such a recording. I believe it was released on Gala. The conductor is
> Herbert von Karajan.
It has also been available on DGG, as an import.
> I had it and gave it away.
>
> In my opinion, the best TROVATORE -- note complete and every role sung
> and dramatized beautifully -- is the RCA recording: Domingo, Price,
> Cossotto, Milnes, Giaiotti; Zubin mehta conducting.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
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Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Ancona21
<< In my opinion, the best TROVATORE -- note complete and every role sung and
dramatized beautifully -- is the RCA recording: Domingo, Price, Cossotto,
Milnes, Giaiotti; Zubin mehta conducting. >>
To rework an aphorism by Andre Maurois, "In opera as in love, we are astonished
at what is chosen by others."
Ancona
REG
I am curious what the original aphorism was - I presume something was
substituted in place of "opera" - athough if the French were honest, there
would probably be something substituted in place of love.
"Ancona21" <anco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011007115855...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Ancona21
substituted in place of "opera" >>
"literature"
Ancona
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 10/07/2001 11:32 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20011007123223...@mb-mq.aol.com>
My goodness: a straight answer from Ancona.
==Il Duca
David7Gable
>
Taped all on the same stage at the same time? Think again.
-david gable
Premiereopera
>From: david...@aol.com (David7Gable)
>Date: 10/7/01 2:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20011007140521...@mb-da.aol.com>
>
>>Corelli, Callas, Bastianini and Simionato?.
>>
>
>Taped all on the same stage at the same time? Think again.
>
>-david gable
I don't think Callas ever sang Trovatore with Corelli. I'm almost positive that
she did not. I hadn't read the earlier post(s) in this thread, so I'm not sure
where they were supposed to have done it.
Ed
http://www.premiereopera.com for the best in Operatic CDs & Videos on the Web
Premiereopera
>Date: 10/7/01 12:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20011007124331...@mb-fz.aol.com>
It *must* be an imposter!! :-)
Ed
David7Gable
>recording. I believe it was released on Gala. The conductor is Herbert von
>Karajan.
Also released on other labels as well including DGG. For me the main liability
here is Karajan, but I also dislike the way Price and Corelli play to the
footlights. I like the live Met Trovatore with P & C better.
>In my opinion, the best TROVATORE -- note complete and every role sung and
>dramatized beautifully -- is the RCA recording: Domingo, Price, Cossotto,
>Milnes, Giaiotti; Zubin mehta conducting.
Again, my main objection to this recording is the conductor. Mehta does
nothing for me here. Price is past her prime, and while Cossotto, Domingo, and
Milnes all have big fat juicy Verdian voices, none of them quite does it for me
interpretively. I like everything about the classic
Milanov-Barbieri-Bjoerling-Warren-Cellini recording except Milanov. She sags
beneath the pitch and arrives behind the beat a little too often for my taste.
In a word she was past her prime when this recording was made. I also like
Price's first recording with Elias, Tucker, Warren, and Basile. Basile is a
much more idiomatic conductor of Verdi than Karajan or Mehta although not quite
so imaginative a one as Cellini, who is in a league with the young Serafin,
Gui, and Votto. My main reservation about this recording is that Tucker is
past his prime, although he gives his all in a way that wouldn't occur to
Domingo.
-david gable
Eduardo Baez
been lately? I've missed his postings for a long time now.
"Premiereopera" <premie...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011007141042...@mb-mb.aol.com...
Chuzzle
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Well. I guess we are really into it now, but I was going to write soon
Trovatore
> with Pertile, Granforte, Minighini-Cattaneo, all of whom seem to me first
> rate interpreters, and Carena, (the soprano weak link), although she is
>not so objectionable other than in running figurations (some of the
downward runs in the D'amor are sung more poorly than I've ever heard). ALL
is redeemed, whatever you otherwise object to, by the conducting, with
Hmm. Minighini-Cattanao? I've never heard of such a person. However, I HAVE
heard of Irene Minghini-Cattaneo, a mezzo soprano of Italian extraction who
was killed in 1944 in Rimini in a bombing attack by allied forces. And
Sabano? Never heard of him either. But there WAS a conductor of some note
named Sabajno. Is HE the guy you're thinking of? Those foreign names are a
bitch to spell aren't they? Oh, and isn't it 'Il' Trovatore rather than just
plain old Trovatore?
Chuzzle
REG
of the opera-going public.
"Chuzzle" <chu...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:9pr5h1$281$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
Leonard Tillman
'Il' Trovatore rather than just plain old Trovatore?
Chuzzle"
-- Aha! But perhaps that Trovatore chap wasn't *feeling* "Il", lately, -
but rather *well*, thanks to a diet of wheat Germa, and other neat
foodes loded wit vytaminz -- causing him to feel :
"Big 'n' brassy,
fat 'n' sassy,
fit as a fiddle,
and ready for luuuve"
Best, LT -
"Use what talents you possess;
the woods would be very
silent if no birds sang there except those
that sang best". - Henry Van Dyke
Leonard Tillman
Granforte's "Count di Luna"!
(And was not disappointed.)
Leonard Tillman
"nic" keeps cropping up on the poster-list, seems to be getting a
leeeeeetle bit closer to a well-deserved aneurism....SO, my posts must
therefore *increase*, for that reason, also!
It's my *moral obligation*, at the very least!!!!!
L "the Civically Concerned" T
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 10/08/2001 5:53 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <24846-3BC...@storefull-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
In Chicago, it's IL TROVATORE;
at the Met, it's NY TROVATORE.
:>))) G/P Dave
Eduardo Baez
"Chuzzle" <chu...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:9pr5h1$281$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
Leonard Tillman
at the Met, it's NY TROVATORE.
----------------------
So noted!
(Seems fair.)
Leonard Tillman
Trovatore, - it certainly is a well-kept secret!
( I'm more than glad of the 1962 performance with *L. Price*, and
the rest of the principals!)
---------------------------
From: zea...@earthlink.net (Eduardo Baez)
"Where is Don Tomas Kaufman? He probably knows for sure. BTW, where has
he been lately? I've missed his postings for a long time now."
---------------------------
"Corelli, Callas, Bastianini and Simionato?.
Taped all on the same stage at the same time? Think again.
-david gable"
------------------------
"I don't think Callas ever sang Trovatore with Corelli. I'm almost
positive
that
she did not. I hadn't read the earlier post(s) in this thread, so I'm
not
sure
where they were supposed to have done it.
Ed "
----------------------------
orphee
says...
Dear friends,
nobody is talking about the excellent recording of TROVATORE with Mario del
Monaco, Renata Tebaldi, Giulietta Simionato, Ugo Savarese, cond. Erede on Decca,
or Jussi Björling, Zinka Milanov, Leonard Warren, Fedora Barbieri, cond. Cellini
on RCA,
or my favourite recording with Franco Corelli, Gabriella Tucci, Giulietta
Simionato, Robert Merrill, cond. Schippers on EMI.
This recording is thrilling, Corelli at his best, Tucci with a sensuality in the
voice I have never heard before, Giulietta Simionato unequalled, the wonderful
Merrill and a conductor 'di prima qualita'.
Any comments?
All the best
Orphee
Leonard Tillman
nobody is talking about the excellent recording of TROVATORE with Mario
del Monaco, Renata Tebaldi, Giulietta Simionato, Ugo Savarese, cond.
Erede on Decca,
or Jussi Björling, Zinka Milanov, Leonard Warren, Fedora Barbieri,
cond. Cellini on RCA,
or my favourite recording with Franco Corelli, Gabriella Tucci,
Giulietta Simionato, Robert Merrill, cond. Schippers on EMI. This
recording is thrilling, Corelli at his best, Tucci with a sensuality in
the voice I have never heard before, Giulietta Simionato unequalled, the
wonderful Merrill and a conductor 'di prima qualita'.
Any comments?
All the best
Orphee"
---------------------------------
-- The first-mentioned of these three sets, has superb prime leads,
among the very greatest of their, or any era, and would have been among
the most favored of all sets, --- but for the baritone, Ugo Savarese,
who was not to compare with his colleagues (though actually a *fine*
performer, but simply not a *great* one, unfortunely, and with too much
of a disparity in excellence, in the company of Tebaldi, MDM,
Simionato, and the magnificent basso, Tozzi!)
The other two sets are simply my favorite ones of all, - were I
compelled to limit myself to that number of them.....*unbeatable* !!
(Though I would attempt to "sneak in" three more:
The Corelli, Price, Bastianini, Simionato, and Zaccaria performance
of 1962, available on numerous labels;
Also, the 1957 film, with MDM, Gencer, the unsurpassably great
Barbieri, the likewise Bastianini, and Plinio Clabassi;
And the early '40's b'cast, with Bjoerling, Greco, Castagna, Valentino
(great, very much underrated baritone), and Moscona (same comment, but
among basses!)
--- Quite enjoyable, *even just recalling* all the above!!!
D.A. Beauregard
GRNDPADAVE <grndp...@aol.com> wrote:
>In my opinion, the best TROVATORE -- note complete and every role sung and
>dramatized beautifully -- is the RCA recording: Domingo, Price, Cossotto,
>Milnes, Giaiotti; Zubin mehta conducting.
Has this been remastered for CD more than once? In the more loud,
dramatic moments (e.g., parts of 'Di quella pira', but also elsewhere
in the opera) the quality of the recording on the set I have does not
seem to be 100%, as if there is overloading (I don't have it here so
I can't check to see when the CDs were produced, but probably mid-80s).
I have tried the discs in different systems and it seems to be
reproducible. Anyone else noticed something similar?
Cheers
Daniel
TheDivo
>nobody is talking about the excellent recording of TROVATORE with Mario
>del Monaco, Renata Tebaldi, Giulietta Simionato, Ugo Savarese, cond.
>Erede on Decca,
This particular Trovatore is the first complete opera I ever owned. What was
unusual about it is that the album included a Schirmer complete piano-vocal
score which I still have.
Mitchell Kaufman
It's been remastered more than once, but the distortion is still there.
I've suggested in the past that it might be attributable to problems
with the lousy back-coated tape stock in vogue at the time (it also
afflicts some of Price's Prima Donna albums), but nobody seems to know
for sure.
This has been discussed here and in rmcr; you might try a Google Groups
search.
MK
Geoffrey Riggs
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1050-3BC...@storefull-218.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
"<snip>Jussi Björling, Zinka Milanov, Leonard Warren, Fedora Barbieri,
cond. Cellini on RCA,
or my favourite recording with Franco Corelli, Gabriella Tucci,
Giulietta Simionato, Robert Merrill, cond. Schippers on EMI. This
recording is thrilling, Corelli at his best, Tucci with a sensuality in
the voice I have never heard before, Giulietta Simionato unequalled, the
wonderful Merrill and a conductor 'di prima qualita'.
Any comments?
All the best
Orphee"
---------------------------------
[LT] The other two sets are simply my favorite ones of all, - were I
compelled to limit myself to that number of them.....*unbeatable* !!
[GR] Since I tend to place two Trovatore recordings above all others anyway,
my two would be, yes, the Bjoerling/Barbieri/Milanov cited above and a
Corelli Trovatore, yes, but not necessarily the Simionato/Tucci on EMI.
Instead, I would go for................................
[LT] (Though I would attempt to "sneak in" three more:
The Corelli, Price, Bastianini, Simionato, and Zaccaria performance
of 1962, available on numerous labels;
[GR] Bingo! That's the one. BTW, I was rather surprised to find out, many
years after having fallen completely under the spell of these two sets
myself, that the Corelli/Simionato/L.Price Trovatore just happens to be the
"desert island" favorite recording of all time..........for Christa Ludwig.
Go figure. I suppose this "factoid" stuck for me, since (an irony here) my
surprise was spiced by my own choice for "desert island" favorite recording
of all time: the Ludwig/Vickers Fidelio!
When it comes to the Bjoerling/Barbieri/Milanov and the
Corelli/Simionato/L.Price Trovatores, either one towers over the
competition, IMHO, more because they work brilliantly as a whole than
because of Bjoerling or Corelli.
Don't get me wrong: there is no question that both Bjoerling and Corelli
acquit themselves creditably on these two sets, however strongly contrasted
their different approaches. I find they both "work", in fact.
It's just that Bjoerling here does not have--quite--the variety of shading
and comprehensive technical assurance that his Manrico from Covent Garden
("live" 1939) has, while Corelli's approach, impassioned as it is, does not
have--quite--the tenderness and imagination and legato of his "live" La
Scala Opening Night, from 1962 (note, the same year as this
Simionato/L.Price one).
The thing is, Bjoerling's Covent Garden Trovatore (under Vittorio Gui) is in
so-so sound, while Corelli's La Scala Trovatore (under Gavazzeni) does not
have a "competitive" Leonora, so to speak, the rich-voiced but earthbound
(comparatively, that is) Stella, IMO.
This means that, since both Bjoerling and Corelli are at least effective
enough (to put it mildly!) on the Barbieri/Milanov and Simionato/L.Price
sets, and since both sets are state-of-the-art-sound for their time (the LP
vinyl era), these two sets are, artistically and sonically, the kind of
recordings that allow one to get swept up easily in Verdi's dark vision of
an exile in a world trapped by blood grudges.
The exotic and the poetic may be somewhat more highlighted in the
Bjoerling/Barbieri/Milanov, while the Corelli/Simionato/L.Price may bring
out the intensity of the drama a little more. They both come about as near
to perfection in their individual approaches, IMO, as it is possible to be.
(The only caveat: they both adopt the traditional cuts of their era--nips
and tucks toward the end of certain ensemble numbers, one whole dance
sequence, a repeat for one of the tenor's arias, one entire aria for the
soprano, etc., etc., etc. Usually, these cuts tend to grate, but with
artistry of this caliber...............<GGGGGGGGGGGGG>)
Enjoy!
Geoffrey Riggs
====================================
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============================
Leonard Tillman
Great post, -- that's *now* got me reaching for my copy of that
'39 Bjoerling Trovatore....and wanting to acquire, at the nearest
opportunity, the Corelli Opening Night performance of '62 that you also
mentioned!
-- And I'm a bit - but not totally - surprised at Christa Ludwig's
having that great a preferance for the (generally referred-to) '62 set
! ( I'd have *tended* to believe she would personally care most for
something in the German fach - but, then, that was not *all* she
excelled in, performance-wise, as we know....)
Geoffrey Riggs
> Geoffrey:
>
> Great post, -- that's *now* got me reaching for my copy of that
> '39 Bjoerling Trovatore....and wanting to acquire, at the nearest
> opportunity, the Corelli Opening Night performance of '62 that you also
> mentioned!
>
> -- And I'm a bit - but not totally - surprised at Christa Ludwig's
> having that great a preferance for the (generally referred-to) '62 set
> ! ( I'd have *tended* to believe she would personally care most for
> something in the German fach - but, then, that was not *all* she
> excelled in, performance-wise, as we know....)
Irony Dept.: Re excelling outside the German fach...........when I
purchased, years and years and years ago, the early vinyl release of the
Callas/Corelli Norma, I originally bought it for Callas and Corelli. I
couldn't imagine a more "dynamic duo". Since then, I've gravitated to the
Wallmann/Scala Opening Night '55 for Callas's Norma and to the
Cerquetti/Santini Rome '58 b'cast for Corelli's Pollione. So why have I
come to prize the Callas/Corelli set anyway? Ludwig's incandescent
Adalgisa.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
===========================
[P.S.: Please consider helping the Red Cross any way you can in this
anguished time:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/107-5486080-9327721
Thank you]
============================================================
www.operacast.com
Leonard Tillman
"Irony Dept.: Re excelling outside the German fach...........when I
purchased, years and years and years ago, the early vinyl release of the
Callas/Corelli Norma, I originally bought it for Callas and Corelli. I
couldn't imagine a more "dynamic duo". Since then, I've gravitated to
the Wallmann/Scala Opening Night '55 for Callas's Norma and to the
Cerquetti/Santini Rome '58 b'cast for Corelli's Pollione. So why have I
come to prize the Callas/Corelli set anyway? Ludwig's incandescent
Adalgisa.
Cheers,
Geoffrey Riggs
-----------------------------
-- When *I* bought the Callas/Corelli Norma, my reasons were Corelli,
Ludwig, and Zaccaria!!
I haven't yet heard the Cerquetti/Corelli b'cast - but suspect I
might like *that* best of all!
(Who was the Oroveso?)
Lucio F. Rodriguez
performance of Trovatore together !. But (at this point) I don't have
the exact date and place. Any body knows any thing about that matters?
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 10/11/2001 4:38 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <23055-3B...@storefull-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
>
>I have an understanding, that Callas and Bijoerling, sang in fact, a
>performance of Trovatore together !. But (at this point) I don't have
>the exact date and place. Any body knows any thing about that matters?
>
My impression is that such a prerformance took place at the Lyric Opera of
Chicago in the 1950s.
==G/P Dave
shortspark
You are correct, it was at the Chicago Lyric. I seem to recall reading
or hearing that the two did not get along very well for some reason. If
this was true perhaps it explains why, despite being two of the greatest
and most popular singers of their era, this is the only time they ever
sang together - as far as I know.
shortspark
--------------------------------------------------------------
Re: The "best" Trovatore possible? . It exist in recording?
Group: rec.music.opera Date: Thu, Oct 11, 2001, 2:21pm (CDT+5) From:
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE)
Lucio F. Rodriguez
Bijoerling, didn't in fact sing together more often ? (only one
performance !). I mean, since they where two of the greatest singers
"practically" of the same era ?
Lucio F. Rodriguez
sang "in live !" together?
shortspark
Pirata. There may be others in which they appeared together but that's
all I can think off at the moment.
shortspark
Shahrdad
Rome, and then later in the same opera in Trieste. I remember reading
somewhere that she pretty much coached him in the role of Pollione. And
apparently he had a soft spot for her, and in 1964 and 1965 when they were
singing Norma together again and she was in terrible shape, Zeffirelli
recalls that Correlli was very kind to Callas and also very watchful of her.
S.
"Lucio F. Rodriguez" <LFC...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13087-3B...@storefull-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Geoffrey Riggs
"shortspark" <mar...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1627-3BC...@storefull-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
>
> You are correct, it was at the Chicago Lyric. I seem to recall reading
> or hearing that the two did not get along very well for some reason.
That is curious. Whether they got along or not, Bjoerling apparently was
emphatic on the artistic caliber of Callas's Leonora (the Chicago Trovatore
was in the fall of '55):
[paraphrase] "Her Leonora was perfection. I have sung Manrico often and
have sung with the greatest Leonoras. Never have I experienced a finer one
than hers."
Perhaps someone here can track down his exact words (of course, the
interview may not have been conducted in English, so a
paraphrase/translation may be all that's possible here).
For the record, Bjoerling had already performed it opposite Cigna, Milanov
et al by the time he partnered Callas in '55. So his claiming Callas as the
finest so far come '55 is indeed the highest praise.
Cordially,
Geoffrey Riggs
=====================================