Schwarzkopf Masterclass (was Walter Legge's memoir)
Celia A. Sgroi
Schwarzenberg in June 2001 and it was one of the most unpleasant
experiences of my life. However, it isn't true that Schwarzkopf was
forced off the stage by the negative reaction from the audience.
Schwarzkopf and the Schubertiade management had decided on a (in her
case, at least) foolish and imprudent way of administering the
masterclass. They simply invited singers to apply with the intention of
auditioning them in public on the first day and determining who would be
admitted to the course. Eight singers auditioned, and most of them were
nowhere near advanced enough for the kind of instruction that was
contemplated. One, a Polish soprano, definitely was, and a couple of
others would have been okay, although probably not great. But
Schwarzkopf had a major tantrum about the low caliber of students and
abused them all unmercifully. She did some "teaching" on the second day,
which basically consisted of interrupting the singers before they had
sung more than a couple of notes, telling them how lousy they were, how
lazy they were, and that in her day singers were better, more
industrious, etc., etc. She hollered at them, swore at them, thumped her
cane on the floor to punctuate her abusive remarks, and was all together
horrible. Some people in the audience objected to what she was doing and
some other defended her. She did declare a pause at one point and left
the stage. This allowed the members of the audience to cool down before
there were fisticuffs, and apparently she also used the time to tell
Gerd Nachbauer, the director of the Schubertiade, that she didn't think
the class should be continued. He apparently persuaded her to continue
for at least another day, which she did. On the third day things were so
bad that I left during a pause between pupils, with the intention of not
going back even though the class was scheduled to run for an additional
two days. I simply didn't want to be a party to what Schwarzkopf was
doing. However, it didn't matter because, in fact, the course terminated
on that day and the Schubertiade ended up having to refund money to
those of us who had bought a ticket for the entire week. It was an
appalling experience and I would never sit through a Schwarzkopf
masterclass again.
I blame the Schubertiade almost as much as Schwarzkopf for the debacle.
The students should have been screened and selected long before the
course began and no paying audience member should have been admitted to
an audition. Knowing how difficult Schwarzkopf was going to be, no
student should have been accepted who was not sufficiently advanced and
prepared to put up with her brutal style of teaching. The week before I
had been in Garmisch-Partenkirchen for a masterclass that was to be led
by Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau. As it happened, Fischer-Dieskau canceled
because of illness but the class was taken over at the last minute by
Inge Borkh. The singers, all pupils of DFD's from Berlin, were so
advanced and so professional that Borkh had no trouble at all stepping
in and doing something productive with them. It was an instructive and
enjoyable experience, even without DFD. The contrast with what happened
the next week in Schwarzenberg was enormous.
BTW, when from time to time Schwarzkopf would bang her cane on the floor
and bellow at whatever hapless student was performing "sing the note,
damn it!" I had the feeling that I was hearing an echo of Walter Legge
from beyond the grave. It was not pleasant.
Celia
Celia A. Sgroi
Oswego State University
sg...@oswego.edu
daniel f. tritter
unlamented legge which was a kind of trai ing ground for what celia groi
describes. she hadn't yet grown into the grotesque performances she
delivered at the schubertiade [i hate to use the word, recalling with such
affection the series under the same name of the late hermann prey at the
92nd street y in new york...a great artist and the soul of kindness
and integrity] ... and the nauseating display of her vituperation and bad
manners in the televised class shown a few years ago on pbs. what a vile
woman!
dft
==========
Donald Collup
<sg...@oswego.edu> wrote:
Yes, indeed, she's a tyrant. For my personal experience with her, go to:
http://www.collup.com/dczcdz/5trackcb.html
and search for "1982" (without the quotes, of course).
In 1987, I was a contestant in the Hugo Wolf Lieder Competition in
Stuttgart where she was the head of the jury (what a surprise...).
Naturally, no first prize for women was given (God forbid Betty should
relinquish her crown). The second prize winner was a wonderful soprano
and I saw (not heard) Mme. Legge admonishing her and gesticulating very
negatively about her performance.
--
Donald Collup
http://www.collup.com
Mike Richter
>
> I attended Elisabeth Schwarzkopf's masterclass at the Schubertiade
> Schwarzenberg in June 2001 and it was one of the most unpleasant
> experiences of my life. However, it isn't true that Schwarzkopf was
> forced off the stage by the negative reaction from the audience.
>
> Schwarzkopf and the Schubertiade management had decided on a (in her
> case, at least) foolish and imprudent way of administering the
> masterclass. They simply invited singers to apply with the intention of
> auditioning them in public on the first day and determining who would be
> admitted to the course. Eight singers auditioned, and most of them were
> nowhere near advanced enough for the kind of instruction that was
> contemplated.
Clearly, you have pegged the essence of the problem. Schwarzkopf's
"style" is well known, even notorious. I have a tape from a PBS
broadcast summarizing in an hour an intensive program of master classes
some years ago. (One of the students was Rodney Gilfry.) In that and in
portions of the BBC program on her, you see the level of expertise she
demands of her students. Even were she younger and presumably more
tolerant of youth, her reaction to an underprepared class would have
been entirely predictable.
Craig Wallace
documentary where she no longer permitted the camera to view her, and the
Jefferson (or was it Steane) edited book of interviews with her where she
comments on her recordings, in most cases fairly negatively!!
She would appear to have a highly over-refined ear (and all that follows
from that I guess) which seems to make her unable to deal with ordinary
humanity in all its loveable imperfections.
Craig
Sydney
Celia A. Sgroi <sg...@oswego.edu> wrote in message
news:3BA604B5...@oswego.edu...
REG
student "explains" ES's reaction, and that she should have had more advanced
students. First of all, we have some comments from what one might consider
to be a "well-prepared student" by the name of Renee Fleming who felt that
the ES experience was as dispiriting an event as she ever encountered.
Second, how you approach an unprepared group says something about you.
First, what dis ES expect there? For someone who is as controlling and
"prepared" as she is, why not make the appropriate inquiries. Secondly, one
can do well with even an unfortunate group of students, without humiliating
them or onese'f. Several decades ago, the wonderful Magda Tagliaferro made a
return to New York. She must have been close to 90 at the time. In her
second year here, she did a Masterclass which was, I believe, at Hunter
College. The students were maybe not even second rate for the most part, and
not all well-prepared. I can tell you that Mme T. was gracious, explained
what she could, and demostrated the rest. It was not memorable in the way it
might have been with a better class, but it was similarly not an exercise in
trauma either.
Finally, we often hear about ES's high standards. Well, maybe. I say this as
someone who perhaps baits her unmercifully for her background, but who makes
no bones about getting tremendous enjoyment and a sense of emotional
catharsis out of many of her fine recordings from the 50s and even early
60s. But have you listened to the commercial Don Giovanni? The vowels are at
times very peculiar even then, and the tone to me at least strident about
the staff.Live performances of her, as opposed to records, do not always
disclose the level of "expertise" that she left in her recordings, either in
intonation or breath line. None of this says that she was not a fine singer,
but ES as a live singer was not ES on records, and she has perhaps forgotten
to difference.
"Craig Wallace" <crai...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:9o5rfj$c05$1...@bugstomper.ihug.com.au...
Celia A. Sgroi
NSup7.26335$A5.41...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com>...
> Well, there has been some talk on this thread that the calibre of the
> student "explains" ES's reaction, and that she should have had more advanced
> students. First of all, we have some comments from what one might consider
> to be a "well-prepared student" by the name of Renee Fleming who felt that
> the ES experience was as dispiriting an event as she ever encountered.
The caliber of the singers did, perhaps, explain something about
Schwarzkopf's bad behavior at the Schubertiade master class but it
didn't excuse it by any means. I think that teachers may have
different areas of strength and may work best with different levels of
pupils. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, for example, sees himself
exclusively as a teacher of interpretation and performance practice
and chooses to work only with very advanced students. Accordingly, he
screens the applicants for his public master classes very carefully.
Other teachers are more willing (and very likely more able) to work
with less advanced students. As long as they know what they're doing
and have the requisite amount of patience, a master class of that kind
can be both productive for the pupils and instructive for the
observers.
It was my impression that Schwarzkopf was quite capable of diagnosing
and responding to students' technical problems, but it was apparent
that she did not wish to do so and took out her frustrations on the
singers who did not meet her expectations. I think that was very
wrong. OTOH, everything I have read and heard indicates that she can
be just as brutal with very gifted and advanced pupils. Nevertheless,
some well-known singers have studied with her and apparently been able
to absorb the abuse and gain something from her teaching. Jessye
Norman, Thomas Hampson, and most recently Matthias Goerne come to
mind. In fact, Goerne has said in interviews that he went to
Schwarzkopf for the technical instruction that he could not get from
Fischer-Dieskau.
My complaint is that, considering that the management of the
Schubertiade Schwarzenberg was very familiar with Schwarzkopf's
behavior, having hosted other master classes by her in the past, they
didn't take steps to ensure that she would either have pupils who were
acceptable to her or cancel the master class.
It is unconscionable to sell tickets for that kind of debacle.
For me, the greatest enlightenment of the Schwarzkopf master class was
observing at first hand just how vile a person she is.
Celia
Celia A. Sgroi
State University of New York
College at Oswego
sg...@oswego.edu
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fischer-DieskauList
Celia A. Sgroi
> about 20 years ago, i attended a juilliard seance by schwartzkopf and the
> unlamented legge which was a kind of trai ing ground for what celia groi
> describes. she hadn't yet grown into the grotesque performances she
> delivered at the schubertiade [i hate to use the word, recalling with such
> affection the series under the same name of the late hermann prey at the
> 92nd street y in new york...a great artist and the soul of kindness
> and integrity] ... and the nauseating display of her vituperation and bad
> manners in the televised class shown a few years ago on pbs. what a vile
> woman!
As a matter of clarification, it was Hermann Prey who founded the
Schubertiade in Hohenems something more than 20 years ago. His vision
and goal was to present all of Schubert's works in chronological
order, with mixed concerts of vocal, chamber and orchestral music.
After a few years he was essentially driven out by some people
(including Gerd Nachbauer) who wanted to put the Schubertiade on a
more commercially sound footing by offering recitals and concerts in a
conventional format with well-known performers. Among the frequent
participants were Christa Ludwig, Brigitte Fassbaender, Peter
Schreier, Alfred Brendel, Nicholas Harnoncourt, and Dietrich
Fischer-Dieskau (after Prey was no longer associated with the
festival). The Schubertiade moved to Feldkirch and Schwarzenberg in
the early 1990's and starting this year will be offered exclusively in
Schwarzenberg. After parting company with his original Schubertiade,
Prey founded the Schubertiade at the 92nd Street Y in New York City.
Georio
experience with her is very trivial, but I offer it because it may shed some
light on her personality. In 84 I was working for Tower Records as a
salesclerk in the Classical Section, and the Czinner film of ROSENKAVALIER was
released on video. Mme. S was conducting masterclasses at Jiulliard at the
time, and agreed to sign copies of the video and her recordings. This was held
in what was at the time the video store, which was a "high tech" sort of place
with numerous video screens showing rock videos and currently popular movies,
and huge displays for garbagey films and rock groups, etc. Well, Mme. was
aghast at the surroundings -- "Theez people arrrrre ANIMAHLZ!" she muttered. It
was kinda scarey. Well sir, at the time Angel/EMI was reissuing their back
opera and recital catalogue in remastered LP form (Direct Metal Mastering
process, some of the BEST LP pressings from a major American company ever!) but
utilizing new, pop poster-art style covers (think Peter Maxx). Rather
schlocky, I must admit. Apparantly no one had bothered to ask Mme. S's
permission to change the artwork on her recitals, and when the first poor fan
handed her one of them she refused to sign it. One of the fellows in line
happened to be a representative of Angel who was taking the opportunity to meet
this legendary artist. She lit into the guy with Elektra-like fury --
"How DARE you put this GARBAGE covers on my records!" etc. etc. One of my
co-workers snapped a picture of her at that moment, and how I wish I had gotten
a copy -- she's wielding her pen like a rapier and makes a face to rival the
famous photos of Callas rounding on those process servers in Chicago!
Opaffic
and universal, she must truly be an exceedingly miserable woman. Her tirades
put Kathy Battle to shame!!
Georio
opa...@aol.com
Except that Kathy Battle is much younger than Mme. Schwarzkopf, and I'm not
denigrating any hardships Mlle. Battle may have been through, but I think
someone of Mme. S's history and age has a LEETLE more entitlement to impatience
(and downright crankiness) than Mlle. B.
REG
ES doesn't really get us far, IMHO.
"Georio" <geo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010918183529...@mb-mf.aol.com...
Opaffic
comparing Kathy Battle and
>ES doesn't really get us far, IMHO.
You are right....I take it back.
Was meant to be mildly humorous....but I regret it and I apologize.
Opaffic
I think someone of Mme. S's history and age has a LEETLE more entitlement to
>impatience
>(and downright crankiness)
Many people have grown much older, and have endured far worse things in their
lifetimes than ES and are NOT abusive as a result. Hardly a justification for
ES's behavior.
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010918211031...@mb-mw.aol.com:
This may come close to invoking the Godwin principle, but I've met some
Holocaust survivors who are MUCH kinder people than this fair-haired
daughter of privilege.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Opaffic
>Holocaust survivors who are MUCH kinder people than this fair-haired
>daughter of privilege.
My point exactly, Matthew, but
I suppose we all must be careful of defending and justifying our flaws.....a
tempting trap sometimes.
Parterrebox
accounts, Ms. Battle's unpleasant behavior seems to stem from her insecurity
about her talent and basic intelligence. Dr. Schwarzkopf has never doubted her
abilities for a moment; she's just a very unpleasant person.
Marilyn Horne tells a story about a conversation between Schwarzkopf and Lotte
Lehmann. Schwarzkopf (intending I suppose to compliment her) told Lehmann, "I
have always admired the way you project a feeling of happiness on stage -- you
look as if you actually enjoy the act of singing!" To which of course Lehmann
replied, "It's no act -- I love to sing!" The idea of actually getting
pleasure from making music is obviously alien to the Schwarzkopf mind.
Ron Obvious
"Parterrebox" <parte...@aol.com> wrote
> Dr. Schwarzkopf has never doubted her
> abilities for a moment>
That's a highly dubious proposition. It is usual and natural for human
beings to question their own abilities. Indeed, her execrable behavior may
well be attributable in some measure to her self-doubt.
> Marilyn Horne tells a story about a conversation between Schwarzkopf and
Lotte
> Lehmann. Schwarzkopf (intending I suppose to compliment her) told
Lehmann, "I
> have always admired the way you project a feeling of happiness on stage --
you
> look as if you actually enjoy the act of singing!" To which of course
Lehmann
> replied, "It's no act -- I love to sing!" The idea of actually getting
> pleasure from making music is obviously alien to the Schwarzkopf mind.>
Again I question your conclusion. You have made more of this little anecdote
(which may be apocryphal, incomplete, or inaccurately reported) than can be
justified. It is simply unbelievable that she derived no pleasure from
making music.
Ron Obvious
John Lynch
Parterrebox wrote:
I've been trying to recall where I heard about that exchange. But didn't it go
further? Didn't Lehmann say to Schwarzkopf, "You don't like to sing, do you?" I
seem to remember that Schwarzkopf admitted she did not and Lehmann responded, "It
shows," or words to that effect.
JL
John Lynch
Ron Obvious wrote:
> "Parterrebox" <parte...@aol.com> wrote
>
> > Dr. Schwarzkopf has never doubted her
> > abilities for a moment>
>
> That's a highly dubious proposition. It is usual and natural for human
> beings to question their own abilities. Indeed, her execrable behavior may
> well be attributable in some measure to her self-doubt.
>
Or perhaps it is fear that people will greet her with a straight-armed salute.
JL
Parterrebox
>seem to remember that Schwarzkopf admitted she did not and Lehmann responded,
>"It
>shows," or words to that effect.
Well, that would certainly be in character for Lehmann, who was not one to
mince words.
David Melnick
Parterrebox wrote:
The complete anecdote (quoted from Horne's autobiography):
"as they walked along the beach, Schwarzkopf said, 'You know,
Lotte, I get the feeling from hearing your records that you really
enjoyed singing.'
Lehmann stopped in her tracks. 'Why, of course I enjoyed it,' she
replied assertively.
'I never have,' answered Schwarzkopf.
'Well, it sounds it, Elisabeth,' rejoined Lehmann as she resumed
walking."
Sincerely,
Dav
Georio
Talk about unuseful. Quoting a little anecdote which admittedly is not even
remembered clearly or completely, and using that as "clear" evidence of
someone's essential "vileness" of character. She just sounds like a very
cranky old lady to me, someone who has become extremely set in her ways, and
from a long past era who is having a lot of trouble dealing with the age she
now lives in. Certainly her reputation is well known, and anyone who promotes
or enrolls in or watches a masterclass should know what they are getting into.
And I for one REALLY get tired of this "straight-armed salute" crap and
constant comments to that effect. It's boring, childish and really doesn't
make me want to take seriously anything that person might have to say.
agathe
"> She just sounds like a very cranky old lady to me, someone who has become
extremely set in her ways, and
> from a long past era who is having a lot of trouble dealing with the age
she
> now lives in. Certainly her reputation is well known, and anyone who
promotes
> or enrolls in or watches a masterclass should know what they are getting
into.
Most definitely. But a very good friend of mine attended a master-class
by Montserrat Caballe a few months ago and she said she was ever so sweet.
Maybe she is not as old as Schwarzkopf but she is very human and I cannot
imagine
her having any trouble with younger singers in a few years time.
My friend actually seemed to disagree on one of Caballe's suggestions
regarding the style of an aria, but she still remained calm and sweet
stating that
it is just a matter of a different approach!
John Lynch
JL
John Lynch
JL
HelenMynrd
levels) is the damage you can do to a student who partakes in the class... I
have seen young singers nearly destroyed by teachers (MC) who have not learned
to be gentle in any way........There are ways to get the best out of singers
without being a know it all bitch and Goddess of the Song!.....(Some of these
singers actually gave up singing in any professional way, when they certainly
had the capacity to do it......but kicking them in the stomach takes a bit of
the pleasure out of it all)....Love and sing!.....HelenM>
Opaffic
>There are ways to get the best out of singers
>without being a know it all bitch and Goddess of the Song!.
That is exactly right Helen. I find any defending or justifying abusive
behavior very disconcerting.
HelenMynrd
pleasant and constructive.. (not all, unfortunately).....what is the purpose of
it if you intend to tear up a student who has learned something wrong, whose
technique is perhaps faulty, whose interpretation is lacking, whose diction is
a problem? Well.....all these things can be corrected in a pleasant
way......if the teacher has a bit of compassion...Ah......that is what the
world needs.....Compasson!...Love and sing! Helen.....
.>>There are ways to get the best out of singers
>>without being a know-it-all bitch and Goddess of the Song!.
Leonard Tillman
this - a few of them were discouraged by her behavior -- sufficiently to
give up the vocal arts and enter other professions or livelihoods! (And
those few, IIRC, were *excellent*.....making it really a shame!!)
Best, LT -
"Use what talents you possess;
the woods would be very
silent if no birds sang there except those
that sang best". - Henry Van Dyke
Leonard Tillman
.................................
-- Absolutely!! - It's nearly as wrong as the abuse, itself!
John Lynch
HelenMynrd wrote:
> The biggest detriment of a Masterclass (and I have conducted many at various
> levels) is the damage you can do to a student who partakes in the class... I
> have seen young singers nearly destroyed by teachers (MC) who have not learned
> to be gentle in any way........There are ways to get the best out of singers
> without being a know it all bitch and Goddess of the Song!.....(Some of these
> singers actually gave up singing in any professional way, when they certainly
> had the capacity to do it......but kicking them in the stomach takes a bit of
> the pleasure out of it all)....Love and sing!.....HelenM>
>
Several years ago on an opera forum that shall remain nameless, the friend of a
singer was all ecstatic because they were off to London to attend a master class
given by Dame Joan Sutherland. We got almost daily reports of their progress, and
the closer they came to their departure, the more informal the reports became.
From Dame Joan Sutherland in a hushed, respectful voice, to Dame Joan, to Joan
and then to Joanie. And then there was a week-long silence. The first post on
their return said, in effect, "That bitch has no right to treat singers like
that!"
JL
Opaffic
.... a master class
>given by Dame Joan Sutherland.
>that!"
Anyone who ever witnessed the way Bonynge treated Sutherland would understand.
Victims often victimize. Not a justification.
Georio
>this - a few of them were discouraged by her behavior -- sufficiently to
>give up the vocal arts and enter other professions or livelihoods! (And
>those few, IIRC, were *excellent*.....making it really a shame!!)
I used to be a dancer who wound up doing a LOT of musical theater, so I also
have an appreciable amount of voice training behind me. As a dancer I took
more than a few masterclasses with well-known teachers, including some
EXTREMELY stringent Russian balletmasters. It could often be painful and
ego-bruising and as a young dancer it was often hard at the time to understand
what was the good of such seemingly harsh treatment. But I can tell you, some
really benefitted from it in the long run, and others sought out training that
was more suited to them. But the ones who were "crushed" by the experience and
dropped the idea of dancing professionally were in my opinion the ones who
would have not been able to cope with the rigors of a life in the professional
arts anyways. And some of them were extremely gifted. There are people in all
avenues of the arts who have ENORMOUS talent but who are just not cut out for
it temperamentally. Sometimes these masterclasses with a veteran are what is
needed to winnow them out. If they bounce back, so much the better for them in
the long run. But I really question the value of these masterclass situations
where there is a paying audience, many of whom come for the "entertainment" and
really don't understand the harshness of the profession. These people (like
the fans described in a previous post who called Sutherland a "bitch") really
should NOT be in the audience of a masterclass. Blaming a student's decision
to give up singing because a masterclass which didn't go the way they had hoped
sounds really fishy to me --- this sounds like the kind of person who probably
would not have made it professionally anyways.
Leonard Tillman
(LT wrote:)
..........................
--- Perhaps not. But we'll never really know!
The winnowing-out, (a "survival of the fittest" process) is also,
unfortunately, a "nipping in the bud" of a career and life-direction
that may, or may not, have been rewarding on all sides.
Opaffic
, then they are worthy of a career" line. Some plants bloom with little care,
others require lots of special loving attention, but once they grow to a
certain point, become hearty and strong. Those young, more sensitive talents
need EXTRA nurturing, not abuse. It is our loss when they are "weeded out", for
they might have been weeds at all!!!
Valfer
least fifty. We screen our participants according to the presenter's
instructions, and our singers are of the highest quality.
In my experience, the best presenters are almost always the kindest. This
is not to say that they will not seek to correct defects, or to make
improvements in the students' performances. It's all in the way it's done.
Singers like Prey, Hines, Curtin, Capecchi, Horne, Shirley-Quirk, Milnes,
Quillico and Krause (we seem to favor baritones) have done much to improve
our singers without making the sad spectacle Mme S just did.
I have also attended master classes which frankly wasted my time. One, by
Daniele Ferro, stands in my mind. His self-promotion and lack of concern
for the singers, together with a certain air of arrogance ("I know this and
you don't") were an absolute put-off. Di Stefano taught little, but at
least he made the affair go well with his affable manner and personal charm.
IMO, the worst were the televised Pavarotti "master classes" of some 20-odd
years ago. He taught little, encouraged less, and showed his flaws as a
musician quite openly. Perhaps his candid presentation was a redeeming
factor. Remember him following the Queen of the Night aria from the score,
and "conducting" the whole thing with a pencil in the wrong meter?
Valfer
"HelenMynrd" <helen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010919230109...@mb-fx.aol.com...
Leonard Tillman
--- I couldn't have said that better (and I *didn't* :-) )!!!
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010920122800...@mb-mf.aol.com:
> I don't buy the "treat 'em rotten when they are young and if they can
> stand it, then they are worthy of a career" line. Some plants bloom with
> little care, others require lots of special loving attention, but once
> they grow to a certain point, become hearty and strong. Those young, more
> sensitive talents need EXTRA nurturing, not abuse. It is our loss when
> they are "weeded out", for they might have been weeds at all!!!
Then there are the weeds, painted and dressed up as flowers, currently
being spread around by the record companies.
Billie Pudd
> Our academy has a regular master class program, therefore I have attended at
> least fifty. We screen our participants according to the presenter's
> instructions, and our singers are of the highest quality.
I am not responding to this poster particularly but to the whole
thread.
My sister, Emma, taught for about ten years at major institutions and
in that time also did "master classes" (different subjects from Lizzie
but the principals were largely the same).
Emma's moods could vary from sweetness and light to the homicidal.
Still, it was evident to her that some people are "natural" teachers,
that some acquire the skills, some are uneven but able sometimes, and
others should be kept away not only from students but from humankind
generally. Emma herself had many famous teachers and also participated
in master classes over a number of disciplines and therefore was
either a target or ignored or pleasantly but unhelpfully treated.
Teachers decide to behave the following ways:
1. Safe and very boring but responsible (I show up, I am nice, I get
my check, I go home).
1a. I don't know very much or can't articulate what I know.
1b. I want the money, none of these people have any talent, but that
one's cute, and I love to be loved and might get laid.
2. I do know quite a bit, but am not sure about how to impart it and
want to be careful not to hurt any feelings. But here or there in this
or that class is someone I can relate to and perhaps help a bit.
3. I know quite a lot, want to and can impart it, but basically, you
have no business seriously seeking to be a professional in any art
form without a huge gift that needs to be evident. If you don't have
it, get lost, don't waste my time.
3a. I will be tactful and euphemistic about this but even so may hurt
some feelings.
4. Fuck you, world, I have suffered tons to get where I am, or
suffered tons to get where I got, and I am going to make you suffer.
Naturally individuals do cross these categories.
The Master class route is largely a fraud as is most arts training
unless the art requires technique and the teaching emphasizes it:
The best 'deadly serious' piano teachers I had were not the famous
ones but the life long teachers who were obsessed with coordination,
digital control, memory skill and score reading and had the tricks of
the trade to help talented students who may have been lacking in one
or more of these departments.
The best composition teachers were those who were obsessed with
technique and emphasized reading the scores of others like a hawk and
stealing what they had done as a way to begin; also they emphasized
having a hands on practicality about playing instruments from an
instrumentalist's point of view -- what is readable in score form and
how to make sure in your own writing, what will sound really from that
instrument.
The best writing teacher I ever had was not the world famous novelist
who's teaching boiled down to: 'well I got tired of fucking and
drinking, got sober, had a few dreams, then worked on this idea for
two years, or
the award winning playwright who said, 'well, I read a bunch of short
stories 'till I found one and thought if I change the location and
reverse genders I can steal this plot and snazz up the dialogue and
have a viable play some idiot will produce and some bigger idiot will
praise in the Times and maybe I can get a movie out of that review and
rake in the dough'--
-- But the one who emphasized the daily toil and discipline of writing
all kinds of fictions, had exercises to limber up the mind that were
interesting at least and urged a close acquaintance with low
expectation, and failure.
None of these good teachers "created artists", still less made
successes. But for those determined to waste their lives seeking the
arts (and that's what 90% are doing) they offered various kinds of
concrete help, astute criticism and sometimes encouragement that felt
deserved.
Emma also had her innings with Lizzie S (Evil Incarnate) and found her
blood curdling but fun. But that does not mean Lizzie was naturally a
good teacher any more there was evidence that Lizzie was a caring
person or a good friend, save to a tiny circle of people most of whom
had been helpful to her at one point.
Still for an intensely narcissistic personality that will crave
intense attention 'til death, teaching has to do when all other ways
don't or can't (at least I expect Liz isn't doing it only because she
seriously needs the dough, as many others do).
I support Liz in one sense: as Alexander Kipnis said to me about his
gifted son, dismissively, "yes, he tinkle OK at harpsichord, but only
the great make it in music!” It's an old fashioned elitist idea
and is not strictly the truth (and probably never was) but I respect
the implication. Liz and Maryann Callas, and Little Renata Scotto and
many others who are controversial were nothing if not deadly in
earnest about what they were after and what they had to do, who they
had to do, and how hard they had to work to get what they wanted, not
only in the bank but -- laugh if you will -- "in art".
That seriousness can make a body harsh and bitter. I don't think it's
a flaw but it certainly means that such a one should only be teaching
on any level if they are really good at it (as I am told Little Renata
is) or they desperately need the dough (as the very great Steber did)
and the students can be shielded.
Emma Albani's only fan, Billie Pudd
Opaffic
Then there are the weeds, painted and dressed up as flowers, currently
>being spread around by the record companies.
LOL!!! Yhat's right, and even ES on a bad day couldn't slow them down!!
Georio
stand it, then they are worthy of a career" line. Some plants bloom with
little care, others require lots of special loving attention, but once
they grow to a certain point, become hearty and strong. Those young, more
sensitive talents need EXTRA nurturing, not abuse. It is our loss when
been weeds at all!!!
<<
Look, I ain't saying I think all classical vocal training should be conducted
like boot camp. I just think that any young ( or even not so young) singer who
say, "Mme. Schwarzkopf's masterclass made me stop singing!" most CERTAINLY had
other pre-existing conditions (as the insurance companies call it) that were
contributing factors. And I think that fans who go to watch masterclasses to
see their favorite retired diva one last time and come away saying "Geeee---she
was really HARD on that cute ill-prepared li'l gal just out of conservatory
with the pretty little voice and the bad Italian---what a BITCH!" should be
kept OUT of the training arena.
Opaffic
Look, I ain't saying I think all classical vocal training should be conducted
>like boot camp. I just think that any young ( or even not so young) singer
>who say, "Mme. Schwarzkopf's masterclass made me stop singing!" most CERTAINLY
Yes, of course I understand your cogent argument here. Sometimes however, the
straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back is assigned all the
blame....there are all too many little ES personalities in positions of power
in this 'business'. I simply wish it were different, and cannot BEGIN to accept
it as how it must remain.
This world can, and must be made a more humane place to exist. This horrendous
nightmare we are living thru right now surely makes that clear to everyone?!
Little acts of "terrorism" are inflicted on one another daily....murders of
spirit, of hope.....lights are snuffed out with an assault of words....and
worse.
Forgive me for getting emotional about this, I know much of what I am writing
is in response to this week's catastrophe, but it has certainly made me stop
and reassess life....what is important, who is important, how I choose to
interact on this planet ....every person brought into my path is a new
opportunity to create goodwill...or negative repurcussions. There is a ripple
effect from even the smallest exchange of words and deeds, positive and
negative. We must INSIST on more of the former I feel, and stop justifying and
defending the latter, or that destructive negativity will live on!
I can give money, blood, time, energy to this recovery process here in
NY....and I can also be vigilant in my dealings with every human being whose
life touches mine every single day. I have to believe that this, too, is
constructive and life supporting. Tragedy always affords us a renewed awareness
to choose in accordance with our higher selves.....heaven help us.
Sorry for straying so far off the track....after sleepness nights, and many
tears shed, I guess I needed to get that out. If you stuck with me to this
point, thanks for caring!
Opaffic
Georio
Nice post. Just keep caring.
Leonard Tillman
......................
From: opa...@aol.com (Opaffic)
...........................
michael farris
Billie Pudd wrote:
>
(cut)
> My sister, Emma, taught for about ten years at major institutions and
> in that time also did "master classes" (different subjects from Lizzie
> but the principals were largely the same).
>
> Emma's moods could vary from sweetness and light to the homicidal.
you don't say ....
(cut long, informative essay about teaching and 'master classes')
> 3. I know quite a lot, want to and can impart it, but basically, you
> have no business seriously seeking to be a professional in any art
> form without a huge gift that needs to be evident. If you don't have
> it, get lost, don't waste my time.
> (cut)
>
> 4. Fuck you, world, I have suffered tons to get where I am, or
> suffered tons to get where I got, and I am going to make you suffer.
>
> Naturally individuals do cross these categories.
From what I understand, the perky and adorablee Ms. Sch. is a cross
between 3. and 4. but I would also add that cultural influences
could/should be taken into consideration. Ms. Schwarzkopf is (among
other colorful terms) a central European of a certain generation and
educational practices t/here tended (and still do in some parts)
toward the brutal (in Poland, thru the 80's and into the 90's it was
standard form for university teachers to scream at students that
they are an embarassment to the national education system, they have
no business defiling the university property one more minute etc.
etc. this was considered 'motivational'). The Pre-WWII German
speaking areas also had long traditions of humiliating students.
Times have changed greatly, but old habits do die hard.
Take a headstrong, strong-willed character that's been thru the
grinding mill of Mittel-Europe schools, has had a brilliant career
against certain odds (and with no shortage of hostility directed
against her, either) and you'll probably get someone a lot like she
is described as being now. (And a strongly-held view of the holiness
of German art, which Schwarzkopf has never pretended not to have,
won't make her manner any more agreeable with people she perceives
as being not-up-to-snuff or not serious enough).
The other possiblity is that the old gal just doesn't like the
master class scene (but feels she's too knowledgable not to at least
try to pass on her insights) and so she behaves the way she does on
purpose to keep the offers at a minimum.
-michael farris
Andrew Clarke
> "Valfer" <Val...@email.msn.com> wrote in message news:<DSoq7.50$xl....@eagle.america.net>...
> > Our academy has a regular master class program, therefore I have attended at
> > least fifty. We screen our participants according to the presenter's
> > instructions, and our singers are of the highest quality.
>
> Etc.
>
> I am not responding to this poster particularly but to the whole
> thread.
>
> My sister, Emma, taught for about ten years at major institutions and
> in that time also did "master classes" (different subjects from Lizzie
> but the principals were largely the same).
[snippetto]
>
> Emma Albani's only fan, Billie Pudd
Dear Signor Pudd,
Thak you for this most interesting and informative post, which sheds a
great deal of light on the subject and remarkably little heat, in
contrast to some of your more floridly baroque invectives, which do
tend to err a little in the opposite direction ... ;-)
The first broadcast masterclass I ever saw was a BBC series with the
late Lord Menuhin, in which there featured (i) the maestro: warm,
affable, intense (ii) the young violinist for that particular
programme: eager and conscientious (iii) the accompanist. It was a
lovely series, all sweetness and light, no intrusive camera work, and
above all, *no audience*.
The other master classes I've seen have all been televised in large,
impersonal concert halls before live audiences, and that, I think, is
an obscenity. It can help neither the teacher nor the taught, and if
the former be Mme Schwarzkopf, is only likely to appeal to sadists of
the most unpleasant kind.
Why do they do this?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra.
Celia A. Sgroi
> gifted son, dismissively, "yes, he tinkle OK at harpsichord, but only
> the great make it in music!” It's an old fashioned elitist idea
> and is not strictly the truth (and probably never was) but I respect
> the implication. Liz and Maryann Callas, and Little Renata Scotto and
> many others who are controversial were nothing if not deadly in
> earnest about what they were after and what they had to do, who they
> had to do, and how hard they had to work to get what they wanted, not
> only in the bank but -- laugh if you will -- "in art".
>
> That seriousness can make a body harsh and bitter. I don't think it's
> a flaw but it certainly means that such a one should only be teaching
> on any level if they are really good at it (as I am told Little Renata
> is) or they desperately need the dough (as the very great Steber did)
> and the students can be shielded.
>
Having suffered through three days of observing Madame Evil Incarnate
at work, I agree totally that she is deadly serious about music and
what it takes to be a serious performer. My objection was that, given
that level of seriousness, it was incumbent upon her to screen her
pupils carefully, so as to 1) not have to waste her valuable time
raging at pupils who didn't have the requisite talent and seriousness
of purpose, and 2) spare her paying audience the spectacle of her
wasting her valuable time in a loud and unpleasant fashion. Unless she
is even more cynical than she appears to be, she has an obligation to
her audience not to waste their time, as well.
Not being a musician, I won't even begin to speculate on what value
masterclasses have for aspiring musicians. I do know that a person who
is interested in a particular type of music, as I am in German art
song, can learn things of value by listening to the comments on
interpretation made by a knowledgeable teacher. Moreover, those of us
who do not sing can learn some very important things about how
difficult and demanding singing is that put our assessment of
performances we hear into a more realistic context. I suspect that
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf might have something valuable to offer in this
regard, but it wasn't evident in the "masterclass" I witnessed.