Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Famous female singers with children
676 views
Skip to first unread message
Pat
Nov 14, 2011, 1:33:45 PM11/14/11
to
John's question about Bonynge and Sutherland made me wonder about a
related question.
One doesn't hear much about female opera singers having children.
I've only read a handful of biographies of women singers -- and those
many years ago - but the only singer who leaps immediately to the mind
of this tired old brain as a mother of several children is Ernestine
Schumann-Heink. If memory serves Flagstad had a daughter quite young,
who eventually married an American, affording her mother an extra
reason, which she declined to take advantage of, to stay in the US
during the war years. Marian Anderson inherited a step-son when she
married in the 1940's, but she was nearly fifty then and I don't
believe she had any natural children. And I have the vague idea that
Renee Fleming has some teenaged children. But other than those few,
I'm pretty much drawing a blank.
Obviously the burdens of travel would prove very difficult for a
youngish parent who wants to perform all over the world. But surely
there are a number of singers who have limited their travel for a
variety of reasons, and have had important careers that are primarily
associated with one venue near their place of domicile. Surely
nowadays, at least, the hours involved in practicing and performing
would not be considered in and of themselves onerous -- millions of
women work forty-plus hours a week.
Are there thought to be physical changes assocated with pregnancy and/
or childbirth that would render difficult a top-level vocal career?
If so, how does that square with the fact that many top-level female
athletes have interrupted their careers to have children, and
eventually managed to regain their earlier fitness and form.
Or is it primarily a psychological concern, a question of focus and so
on?
Is the situation evolving in our time? Are more mothers attempting
and enjoying top-level opera careers than formerly or not?
Pat
related question.
One doesn't hear much about female opera singers having children.
I've only read a handful of biographies of women singers -- and those
many years ago - but the only singer who leaps immediately to the mind
of this tired old brain as a mother of several children is Ernestine
Schumann-Heink. If memory serves Flagstad had a daughter quite young,
who eventually married an American, affording her mother an extra
reason, which she declined to take advantage of, to stay in the US
during the war years. Marian Anderson inherited a step-son when she
married in the 1940's, but she was nearly fifty then and I don't
believe she had any natural children. And I have the vague idea that
Renee Fleming has some teenaged children. But other than those few,
I'm pretty much drawing a blank.
Obviously the burdens of travel would prove very difficult for a
youngish parent who wants to perform all over the world. But surely
there are a number of singers who have limited their travel for a
variety of reasons, and have had important careers that are primarily
associated with one venue near their place of domicile. Surely
nowadays, at least, the hours involved in practicing and performing
would not be considered in and of themselves onerous -- millions of
women work forty-plus hours a week.
Are there thought to be physical changes assocated with pregnancy and/
or childbirth that would render difficult a top-level vocal career?
If so, how does that square with the fact that many top-level female
athletes have interrupted their careers to have children, and
eventually managed to regain their earlier fitness and form.
Or is it primarily a psychological concern, a question of focus and so
on?
Is the situation evolving in our time? Are more mothers attempting
and enjoying top-level opera careers than formerly or not?
Pat
rich...@gmail.com
Nov 14, 2011, 2:30:54 PM11/14/11
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
Horne and many more), and it would be interesting to know if there is
a real statistical difference between the number of women in opera -
assuming it's a profession <g> - and in other arts or that require
that level of education and preparation in whether or not they have
children.
I have the impression - purely that - that this was much less
something women did at various points in the past, although among the
most notable exceptions are Ritter (not Thelma) who was, among other
things, the first Virginie in Paul et Virgine by Masse, and her
daughter, Ritter-Campi, who has left us some recordings, and who
debuted in her mother's role.
I can't remember if any of the so called iconic singers of the 19th
century - Malibran, Sontag, and so on, had children, although for some
reason I thought Viardot Garcia did. Patti, obviously not.
It may also be in some cases that they had children and gave them up,
which is not something you can discount historically.
I have been told that menopause can play hell with a singer's support
and so on, and I also understand that after childbirth you really have
to take it easy in terms of getting the muscles back into shape.
I don't think this is just a women's issue, however and can't think of
a single castrato who ever fathered a child.
wkasimer
Nov 14, 2011, 4:28:56 PM11/14/11
to
> One doesn't hear much about female opera singers having children.
> I've only read a handful of biographies of women singers -- and those
> many years ago - but the only singer who leaps immediately to the mind
> of this tired old brain as a mother of several children is Ernestine
> Schumann-Heink.
Louise Homer had five or six children.
> I've only read a handful of biographies of women singers -- and those
> many years ago - but the only singer who leaps immediately to the mind
> of this tired old brain as a mother of several children is Ernestine
> Schumann-Heink.
Bill
Message has been deleted
chromolume
Nov 14, 2011, 9:31:16 PM11/14/11
to
On Nov 14, 1:33 pm, Pat <pfin...@fenceonline.com> wrote:
children both with severe birth defects, leading to her involvement
with the March of Dimes.
Sills was one of the first singers whose careers I followed when I
started getting interested in opera as an adolecent (mid-1970's), and
I remember doing an in-class book report about her sometime in junior
high - the kids in the class probably didn't care much for the musical
details, but I remember the sympathetic reactions when I mentioned her
children - especially the irony that her deaf daughter would never be
able to hear her sing.
rich...@gmail.com
Nov 15, 2011, 9:40:08 AM11/15/11
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think Muffy subsequently had cochlear inplants, but tragically it
turns out now has MS.
A21²
Nov 15, 2011, 9:52:04 AM11/15/11
to
On Nov 14, 1:33 pm, Pat <pfin...@fenceonline.com> wrote:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20F10FD345A17738DDDA00994D9405B888CF1D3
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Nov 15, 2011, 2:42:18 PM11/15/11
to
rich...@hotnail.com wrote:
> I don't think this is just a women's issue, however and can't think of
> a single castrato who ever fathered a child.
had there been sperm banks and artificial insemination in their day,
wasn't performance of the operation required prior to sexual maturity?
>
>
>
Pat
Nov 15, 2011, 2:43:49 PM11/15/11
to
On Nov 14, 4:46 pm, Terry <b...@clown.invalid> wrote:
>
> I think that if you were to do a bit of prowling around Wikipedia, you'd soon
> find that being an opera singer doesn't preclude fairly normal levels of
> procreation.
>
============
My friend, there are a lot of things I don't do often enough, but
prowling around Wikipedia is not one of them!
On average, I probably look up between fifty and one hundred Wikipedia
entries a day -- although admittedly only a tiny fraction of them
have anything to do with opera singers.
A number of names have been mentioned in this regard, including eight
or ten mothers proffered in a private e-mail from a very knowledgeable
source. But I still would say that the total of big name singers
mentioned as mothers seems quite small small when compared to the
percentage of mothers in the general population, and even to the
percentage of mothers in the career-woman subset of adult females.
But I suppose it's quite possible that a great many more top singers
had/have children; there's no particular reason that most of us would
know any more about the (possible) children of Ponselle or Muzio or
Bori than I do about the (possible) children of Lou Gehrig, Ben Hogan,
or Jim Brown. It's not necessarily the kind of thing that would be
mentioned in a brief precis of someone's career.
So, aside from Richard's mention of possible menopausal issues, it
seems to be generally agreed that there is no physical reason that
pregnancy and childbirth would have injurious effects on vocal
performance?
Pat
>
> I think that if you were to do a bit of prowling around Wikipedia, you'd soon
> find that being an opera singer doesn't preclude fairly normal levels of
> procreation.
>
============
My friend, there are a lot of things I don't do often enough, but
prowling around Wikipedia is not one of them!
On average, I probably look up between fifty and one hundred Wikipedia
entries a day -- although admittedly only a tiny fraction of them
have anything to do with opera singers.
A number of names have been mentioned in this regard, including eight
or ten mothers proffered in a private e-mail from a very knowledgeable
source. But I still would say that the total of big name singers
mentioned as mothers seems quite small small when compared to the
percentage of mothers in the general population, and even to the
percentage of mothers in the career-woman subset of adult females.
But I suppose it's quite possible that a great many more top singers
had/have children; there's no particular reason that most of us would
know any more about the (possible) children of Ponselle or Muzio or
Bori than I do about the (possible) children of Lou Gehrig, Ben Hogan,
or Jim Brown. It's not necessarily the kind of thing that would be
mentioned in a brief precis of someone's career.
So, aside from Richard's mention of possible menopausal issues, it
seems to be generally agreed that there is no physical reason that
pregnancy and childbirth would have injurious effects on vocal
performance?
Pat
rich...@gmail.com
Nov 15, 2011, 3:09:17 PM11/15/11
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
here I suspect A21 and I probably differ) that there are issues about
support that are different for men and women. If you think of
diaphramatic support as being as important as I do, then having kids
(much less if there's a C section) can create possible problems with
the musculature. I say all this with 1) absolute assurance and 2)
absolute complete lack of knowledge, but don't find the two
contradictory at all.
I am not sure, by the way, if women and men 'support' their voices in
precisely the same way.
Peter
Nov 16, 2011, 12:58:10 AM11/16/11
to
The first one who comes to my mind is Anna Netrebko, and it certainly did
not seem to have caused any harm to her voice.
not seem to have caused any harm to her voice.
JAC
Nov 16, 2011, 4:48:39 PM11/16/11
to
Several others off the top of my head who come to mind as having
children (beyond Schumann-Heink, Homer, Flagstad, Sills, Horne,
Netrebko, already mentioned).
Victoria de los Angeles
Montserrat Caballe
Teresa Berganza
Lisa Della Casa
Christa Ludwig
Irmgard Seefried
Renee Fleming
Dawn Upshaw
Frederica von Stade
Hildegard Behrens
Elisabeth Soderstrom
And that's just a random brain-dump. There are plenty more at the star
level, and even more at the level below that (some have preferred to
live on a yearlong company contract rather than individual
engagements, so that they can stay in one place while children are
young). Those whom I have talked to about the problems say that
singing while pregnant can be rather fun, even exhilarating -- it's
readjusting afterwards that can be challenging.
children (beyond Schumann-Heink, Homer, Flagstad, Sills, Horne,
Netrebko, already mentioned).
Victoria de los Angeles
Montserrat Caballe
Teresa Berganza
Lisa Della Casa
Christa Ludwig
Irmgard Seefried
Renee Fleming
Dawn Upshaw
Frederica von Stade
Hildegard Behrens
Elisabeth Soderstrom
And that's just a random brain-dump. There are plenty more at the star
level, and even more at the level below that (some have preferred to
live on a yearlong company contract rather than individual
engagements, so that they can stay in one place while children are
young). Those whom I have talked to about the problems say that
singing while pregnant can be rather fun, even exhilarating -- it's
readjusting afterwards that can be challenging.
Nickname unavailable
Nov 18, 2011, 5:04:43 AM11/18/11
to
And seeing the thread began with a mention of Sutherland and Bonynge,
it should be noted that they had a son, born in 1956, I think.
J
it should be noted that they had a son, born in 1956, I think.
J
Terry
Nov 20, 2011, 5:05:07 AM11/20/11
to
Pat <pfi...@fenceonline.com> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 4:46 pm, Terry <b...@clown.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think that if you were to do a bit of prowling around Wikipedia, you'd soon
>> find that being an opera singer doesn't preclude fairly normal levels of
>> procreation.
>>
> ===========
> On Nov 14, 4:46 pm, Terry <b...@clown.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think that if you were to do a bit of prowling around Wikipedia, you'd soon
>> find that being an opera singer doesn't preclude fairly normal levels of
>> procreation.
>>
> ===========
> My friend, there are a lot of things I don't do often enough, but
> prowling around Wikipedia is not one of them!
> On average, I probably look up between fifty and one hundred Wikipedia
> entries a day -- although admittedly only a tiny fraction of them
> have anything to do with opera singers.
>
> A number of names have been mentioned in this regard, including eight
> or ten mothers proffered in a private e-mail from a very knowledgeable
> source. But I still would say that the total of big name singers
> mentioned as mothers seems quite small small when compared to the
> percentage of mothers in the general population, and even to the
> percentage of mothers in the career-woman subset of adult females.
>
> But I suppose it's quite possible that a great many more top singers
> had/have children; there's no particular reason that most of us would
> know any more about the (possible) children of Ponselle or Muzio or
> Bori than I do about the (possible) children of Lou Gehrig, Ben Hogan,
> or Jim Brown. It's not necessarily the kind of thing that would be
> mentioned in a brief precis of someone's career.
>
> So, aside from Richard's mention of possible menopausal issues, it
> seems to be generally agreed that there is no physical reason that
> pregnancy and childbirth would have injurious effects on vocal
> performance?
>
> Pat
Ah, but it IS just the kind of thing that Wikipedia generally includes in
> prowling around Wikipedia is not one of them!
> On average, I probably look up between fifty and one hundred Wikipedia
> entries a day -- although admittedly only a tiny fraction of them
> have anything to do with opera singers.
>
> A number of names have been mentioned in this regard, including eight
> or ten mothers proffered in a private e-mail from a very knowledgeable
> source. But I still would say that the total of big name singers
> mentioned as mothers seems quite small small when compared to the
> percentage of mothers in the general population, and even to the
> percentage of mothers in the career-woman subset of adult females.
>
> But I suppose it's quite possible that a great many more top singers
> had/have children; there's no particular reason that most of us would
> know any more about the (possible) children of Ponselle or Muzio or
> Bori than I do about the (possible) children of Lou Gehrig, Ben Hogan,
> or Jim Brown. It's not necessarily the kind of thing that would be
> mentioned in a brief precis of someone's career.
>
> So, aside from Richard's mention of possible menopausal issues, it
> seems to be generally agreed that there is no physical reason that
> pregnancy and childbirth would have injurious effects on vocal
> performance?
>
> Pat
its singer biographies. As your recourse to Wikipedia is about 200 times
mine, you're probably a more deft hand at it than I am. But pshawwwww... It
took me only five minutes to discover that Kirsten Flagstad, Anna Netrebko,
Emma Kirkby, Renee Fleming, Christine Schafer and Anne Sofie von Otter bore
children. (Not only that, but you can discover really important stuff,such
as the fact that Anna Netrebko wants to open a restaurant!) Perhaps the
most influential factor that inhibits procreation is any tendency to the
homosexual persuasion. But of course, this matter is being discussed, even
as we speak, in another corner of this NG. On the question of whether
pregnancy and childbirth have a deleterious effect on vocal performance, I
muse on the fact that my singing teacher, a fine soprano and the mother of
seven children (she did a gig as Maria in The Sound of Music, and took the
family along), could sing the pants off anyone onstage with her.
--
Cheers, Terry
Jonathan C
Nov 20, 2011, 6:17:52 AM11/20/11
to
On 20 Nov 2011 20:05:07 +1000, Terry <addre...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> It
>took me only five minutes to discover that Kirsten Flagstad, Anna Netrebko,
>Emma Kirkby, Renee Fleming, Christine Schafer and Anne Sofie von Otter bore
>children.
They bore a lot of adults too.
Sorry, open goal and all that.
--
JC
wrote:
> It
>took me only five minutes to discover that Kirsten Flagstad, Anna Netrebko,
>Emma Kirkby, Renee Fleming, Christine Schafer and Anne Sofie von Otter bore
>children.
Sorry, open goal and all that.
--
JC
xolunath...@gmail.com
Jul 11, 2017, 2:30:35 PM7/11/17
to
0 new messages