Domingo Otello, which one is better?
Michael Black
Li Feng wrote:
> to choose between two Domingo's:
> RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
Get the first one he recorded on RCA. First, you get Scotto and Milnes, and to
even mention those two in the same sentence as Studer and Leiferkus is an
insult to Scotto and Milnes. Second, Domingo is in MUCH better voice for his
first one. He may not be as dramatically committed as he is in the second one,
but the voice is fresher.
--
"Dolora Zajick Rules!!! Any questions?"
http://www.stairway.org/bjorling/
My Favorite Singers
http://www.stairway.org/bjorling/singers.htm
Jack Johnson
This will no doubt be the minority opinion on this newsgroup, but I prefer
the DG version. The RCA recording is terrible, sonically, and I just don't
like Milnes at all. I think Chung's is every bit as dramatic and
tremendously recorded. All the principals are vocally secure and
dramatically involved. Domingo is in very fine voice, I think, and Studer,
whom I like but by no means adore, does some of her best singing.
Ed Rosen
The answer as to which Domingo Otello is better is neither.
Try Del Monaco.
Ed
Simon Roberts
Li Feng (fen...@aecom.yu.edu) wrote:
: Hi everyone, I want to buy a new complete Otello (have owned a RCA
: VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
: RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
: Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
: assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on which
: one I should go. Thanks a lot.
The first one is better (since you're only talking about recordings you
can get from a club I won't mention such delights as the live
Domingo/Kleiber), probably. The conducting on both is extremely good,
but while Chung's has much better sound, while Leiferkus is a more
interesting singer than Milnes, while Domingo's interpretation is
probably better the second time, and while Studer ought to have the right
voice for the part, there are too many vocal problems. Domingo's singing
as such is technically inferior for Chung, often sounding thin and
strained on high notes, Studer's singing is erratic -- her tone production
and pitch are uneven, the Ave Maria ruined by a messy, ill-tuned
penultimate note, while Leiferkus hardly makes the sound of a Verdi
baritone; in fact he sounds more like a tenor than Domingo does -- an
interesting performance, though. For Levine, Scotto recorded the role
rather too late, but it's a superb performance of the role nonetheless,
and Milnes is fine (but not remotely in Gobbi's class). But since they
are both so cheap, why don't you get both of them? It's fun to compare,
and both have positive qualities.
Simon
donpaolo
Right on, Ed. Even McCracken would be preferable!
Regards,
DonPaolo
Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<6d1auq$d...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>...
Terrymelin
At those prices I'd buy both versions. Both have their plusses and minuses but
both are very fine recordings wonderfully conducted.
Terry Ellsworth
JJ
In article <fengli-ya02408000...@news.alt.net>,
fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
> Hi everyone, I want to buy a new complete Otello (have owned a RCA
> VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
> RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
> Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
> assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on which
> one I should go. Thanks a lot.
Hi--
I'll try to answer your question (Domingo bashers, you can sit this one
out can't you?). I definitely prefer the Chung recording. The RCA set has
the advantage of Scotto's Desdemona, which is very moving, but that is the
only edge I'd give to it. The DG recording features Cheryl Studer in
beautiful voice (come on people, let's give her a little credit!) and
Domingo in better form than before. Studer is neither as artful or
interesting as Scotto, but nonetheless it's a sincere, well sung
performance. As for Domingo, not only is he subtler dramatically, but the
voice has an added richness and beauty. I don't think Domingo has sounded
better on records than in this DG set. My favorite example of this is the
opening passage of "Gia nella notte densa" where in combination of beauty
of tone, sensitivity of phrasing, and legato line, Domingo is superb.
Some have expressed doubts about his vocal health on the second set, but,
as far as I can tell, the sound is not only darker and suaver, but also
clearer. He is also more careful about dynamic markings than before, and
his beautiful soft singing registers much better. I like neither
Leiferkus or Milnes, but I don't think either detracts too heavily from
each recording. As for conducting, Levine is a bit more taut, but Chung
is more spontaneous and partakes in some pretty thrilling conducting. He
is freely expressive, giving dramatic pauses their fullest possible
effect, and indulging in some wild crescendi. Chunge gets carried away at
times (parts of "Dio ti gioconda" and the orchestral passage after "Dio!
mi potevi" are a couple of examples off the top of my head), but then
there are some extraordinarily haunting effects (like the violins at the
end of the "Ave Maria"). Chung is also more sensitive than most conductors
to the beauties of Verdi's orchestration. Finally, the sound is much
better on DG. Add Ramon Vargas as an excellent Cassio, and you have,
IMHO, one of the very best Otello recordings (and $6 is a terrific deal).
Jon
Joe Caporiccio
rarely capture him the way he sounds in the house. To me, the one
recording that captures himperfectly is his second recording of Forza
Del Destino withFreni and Muti conducting.
nospam*...@spindle.net
I prefer Chung by a very slim margin. Domingo's voice is fresher in
first. I prefer Studer to Scotto but Milnes to Leiferkis (not a
classic Verdi baritone). In the end, the digital sound of the Chung
revealed wonderful orchestral details, and the sound was the deciding
factor. Both are excellent
=================
Delete "nospam*" to reply by email.
Peter
> Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
> assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on which
> one I should go. Thanks a lot.
Please "reveal" the record club where we can purchase the complete
"Chung" DG Otello for about $6.00 plus shipping.
Thanks in advance.
GregF NC
>> In article <fengli-ya02408000...@news.alt.net>,
>> fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone, I want to buy a new complete Otello (have owned a RCA
>> > VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
>> > RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
Would you mind telling us which clubs? I might be interested in buying the
Chung version for $6 myself.
Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC
Erik Jan van Sten
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Li Feng wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, I want to buy a new complete Otello (have owned a RCA
> VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
> RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
> Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
> assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on which
> one I should go. Thanks a lot.
>
>
The Chung is Domingo's best studio recording of the part. Dramatically he
is much more interesting the third time round, and his voice had acquired
a darker colour, very suitable. He is in very healthy voice in both
recordings.
Studer is also preferable to Scotto, recorded at her absolute prime.
Desdemona must be her finest achievemnt on disc. The beautifully floating
Ave Maria leaves Scotto trailing by miles in comparison (mind, Scotto is
not bad at all).
And Leiferkus - well, that depends on whether you can stand his voice.
His interpretation is much better then Milnes, who sees Iago as a
run-of-the-mill villain. However, Milnes has the edge in having one of
the finest baritones ever. And his duet with Domingo is rivetting, better
than Leiferkus-Domingo.
The orchestra clinches the deal for me - Levine is good but impulsive and
straightforward as ever in Verdi, and Chung is one of the best conductors of
Otello on disc, on a par with Karajan (his first!) and almost as good as
Toscanini. He might be even better if he had had more experience with the
score.
EJ
Clifford Ando
On 25 Feb 1998, Simon Roberts wrote:
> The first one is better (since you're only talking about recordings you
> can get from a club I won't mention such delights as the live
> Domingo/Kleiber), probably.
I saw a Domingo/Kleiber live at the Met. What performance do you refer
to, and on what label is it available? Not that I need to supplement my
collection of Otello recordings, but, well, Kleiber's conducting in the
performance that I saw was nothing short of astonishing.
Clifford Ando an...@yorku.ca
Programme in Classical Studies 736-2100 ext. 70476
York University
4700 Keele St.
Toronto, Ontario M3J 1P3
Clifford Ando
On 25 Feb 1998, donpaolo wrote:
> Right on, Ed. Even McCracken would be preferable!
>
> Regards,
>
> DonPaolo
>
> Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
> <6d1auq$d...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>...
> > The answer as to which Domingo Otello is better is neither.
Avoiding the question of the original post merely opens the rather
open-ended question, which is the best Otello currently available?
Martinelli/Tibbett? Vinay/Warren? Del Monaco/Warren? Vickers/Gobbi?
We could argue the question at great length.
Still, to return to the first inquiry and the above responses, I wonder
why the negativity about Domingo's portrayal? I have six or seven
different recordings of the opera, and no recording by Domingo. But I
have seen Domingo perform the role live three times, and while his voice
has shown some strain in recent years (more and more so), I nevertheless
think that Domingo was a remarkably intelligent singer and an exceptional
Otello.
So, what about his Otello don't you like?
Stregata
>In article <fengli-ya02408000...@news.alt.net>,
>fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone, I want to buy a new complete Otello (have owned a RCA
>> VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
>> RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
>> Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
>> assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on which
>> one I should go. Thanks a lot.
>
I am amazed that no one has mentioned Domingo's third Otello recording, this
time for EMI, with Katia Ricciarelli and Justino Diaz. It is a must for all
Domingo lovers, as it captures Domingo, Ricciarelli and Diaz at the height of
their vocal powers.
Stregata
Joe Caporiccio
balanced, Ricciarelliis tentaive and nil, Maazel should have been
crucified for his conducting and as far as diaz is concerned, I hate
basses doing baritone roles. Yuch!!
Ed Rosen
>
>So, what about his Otello don't you like?
>
>Clifford Ando an...@yorku.ca
>Programme in Classical Studies 736-2100 ext. 70476
>York University
>4700 Keele St.
>Toronto, Ontario M3J 1P3
>
What I don't like- and I've seen him do the role many times, is that he
has neither the vocal heft or the top notes required for the role.
In person, even 20 years ago, he would rush like crazy over high notes,
almost always run out of gas right at the Si pel ciel, frequently get
hoarse on the Bb in the Ora per sempre addio, and other similar
happenings.
The Esultate was so rushed that if you blinked you missed it. There
wasn't a thrilling moment in his singing of the role. Not one. The
only interesting thing would seem to be which high notes would he miss
or leave out tonight.
Now I admit to not being a Domingo fan, but this is honestly how I
found his Otello to be. On records, of course, much of the above can
be eliminated by splices, etc. But still, the basic sound was not
hefty enough for Otelli, IMO.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
Legato Classics, Inc.
http://www.lyricdist.com
Rudolf U. Weber
There is also a live recording from La Scala:
Kleiber, Domingo, Freni, Cappuccilli
Michael Black
Joe Caporiccio wrote:
> Stregata wrote:
> >
> > I am amazed that no one has mentioned Domingo's third Otello recording, this
> > time for EMI, with Katia Ricciarelli and Justino Diaz. It is a must for all
> > Domingo lovers, as it captures Domingo, Ricciarelli and Diaz at the height of
> > their vocal powers.
> >
> You've got to be kidding! Domingo is bland, the recording is badly
> balanced, Ricciarelliis tentaive and nil, Maazel should have been
> crucified for his conducting and as far as diaz is concerned, I hate
> basses doing baritone roles. Yuch!!
Sarcasm doesn't come across too well, does it?
JJ
In article
<Pine.GSO.3.96.980226...@sunspot.ccs.yorku.ca>, Clifford
Ando <an...@yorku.ca> wrote:
> Avoiding the question of the original post merely opens the rather
> open-ended question, which is the best Otello currently available?
> Martinelli/Tibbett? Vinay/Warren? Del Monaco/Warren? Vickers/Gobbi?
> We could argue the question at great length.
Well I think that the Chung recording is one of the best I've heard for
reasons I posted earlier. Of those you mention I like also
Martinelli/Tibbett/Rethberg although the recorded sound is rather poor.
Martinelli is wonderful but it must be admitted that he is even more
strained on the high notes that Domingo is. In terms of conducting I
think Panizza, Chung, Kleiber (I have the 70s La Scala version and also
one from Japan in the early 80s), and, of course Toscanini are the best.
The Toscanini recording features a wonderful cast including the great
Ramon Vinay. I'm glad that you also mentioned the Vinay/Warren, as that's
one of my very favorite performances of the piece. Both Vinay and Warren
are in top form as is Licia Albanese as Desdemona. She can't really float
the high notes in the "Ave Maria", but for dramatic intensity she's hard
to beat (the sobbing, grunting, and screaming are all in place). In
addition, Busch is a fabulous conductor, taking the piece at a somewhat
slower than usual pace. Being a Met pirate, it's not available in the US,
but there are places.... The Pavarotti recording is one that gets dumped
on a lot, but I have to agree with Alan Blyth (forgive me!) that it is
enormously refreshing to hear a real Italianate tenor voice in this
music. Not the version of choice perhaps, but an important and
interesting supplement I think.
> Still, to return to the first inquiry and the above responses, I wonder
> why the negativity about Domingo's portrayal? I have six or seven
> different recordings of the opera, and no recording by Domingo. But I
> have seen Domingo perform the role live three times, and while his voice
> has shown some strain in recent years (more and more so), I nevertheless
> think that Domingo was a remarkably intelligent singer and an exceptional
> Otello.
>
> So, what about his Otello don't you like?
I think Domingo detractors don't find him thrilling enough vocally (like,
say, a del Monaco) in terms of sound, squillo, and high notes. My view is
that while Domingo may not have a "real" Otello voice, his declamatory
power, ardency, and musicality more than make up for it. It's true that
Verdi wanted Tamagno for his first Otello because of his ringing high
notes, but also remember that Verdi was extremely apprehensive and worried
about Tamagno's inability to sing mezza voce. In other words, the role of
Otello is not only about belting it out and great high notes (the role is
hardly a high tenor role in the first place). I personally would place
Domingo as one of the best recorded Otellos along with Martinelli and
Vinay.
Jon
g.f.
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980226...@sunspot.ccs.yorku.ca>,
Clifford Ando <an...@yorku.ca> wrote:
>
>So, what about his Otello don't you like?
>
try dejanews and check out the intensely tiresome thread along the
lines of "Why We Hate Domingo" from maybe three months back. A
revival of the topic would be as unproductive as it would be unwelcome.
Greg
William D. Kasimer
Another vote for the Chung recording. Much better sound, and preferable
conducting; Levine's is perfectly adequate, but Chung's is genuinely
taut and exciting. Domingo's top is somewhat more precarious in the
later recording, but that's much less of a liability for Otello than it
is for, say, Alvaro. And for once, he sounds genuinely involved in the
drama; for Levine, he sounds like he's sleepwalking. Although Scotto is
clearly the more assertive and interesting Desdemona, I dislike the
strident tone here, and this is one of Studer's better recordings.
I've always enjoyed Leiferkus better than most people, despite the
exotic nature of his voice and linguistics. He is a very credible Iago,
where I find Milnes, with his use of every possible stock gesture,
totally ineffective.
Bill
--
William D. Kasimer
wk...@mindspring.com
wk...@juno.com
Peter
Li Feng wrote:
> I think Columbia House Music Club Classical Division has become
> better and better. Not only did they greatly increase the classical
> CDs available, but their prices are cheaper than BMG.
But all the ads that I have ever seen for Columbia House require the
purchase of six CD's at "full price" in order to become a member.
That is surely not as good as the purchase of just one CD at "full
price" which is the requirement for joining BMG.
Am I missing something? Do you, or anyone else, know of a better way to
join Columbia House, if so, please do be kind enough to tell us how.
GAUS
Joe Caporiccio wrote:
>
> Stregata wrote:
> >
> > >fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi everyone, I want to buy a new complete Otello (have owned a RCA
> > >> VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
> > >> RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
> > >> Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
> > >> assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on which
> > >> one I should go. Thanks a lot.
> > >
> >
> > time for EMI, with Katia Ricciarelli and Justino Diaz. It is a must for all
> > Domingo lovers, as it captures Domingo, Ricciarelli and Diaz at the height of
> > their vocal powers.
> >
> You've got to be kidding! Domingo is bland, the recording is badly
> balanced, Ricciarelliis tentaive and nil, Maazel should have been
> crucified for his conducting and as far as diaz is concerned, I hate
> basses doing baritone roles. Yuch!!
Get the Del Monaco, Tebaldi, Protti, Erede..... you'll have the "Otello"
of the century. !
wwi...@one.net
In article <6d4hhr$o...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
<<<snip>>>
> But still, the basic sound was not hefty enough for Otelli,
Ed, your freudian Corelli has slipped out.........
WW
Team OS/2 Cincinnati & PROUD OF IT!
(and Cincinnati Opera subscriber & PROUD OF IT!)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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AT
buy yourself an both of delmonaco's otellos, the mono and the stereo.
do not waste your time with inferior performers of this role.
Li Feng <fen...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote in article
<fengli-ya02408000...@news.alt.net>...
Marcia Dietrich
stre...@aol.com (Stregata) wrote:
>I am amazed that no one has mentioned Domingo's third Otello recording,
this
>time for EMI, with Katia Ricciarelli and Justino Diaz. It is a must for
all
>Domingo lovers, as it captures Domingo, Ricciarelli and Diaz at the
height of
>their vocal powers.
Hi Stregata,
I take it this is the recording done for the Zeffirelli Otello film, I
haven't seen the CD set in stores or thru the record clubs. I do have
the video of the Otello film, and the score is cut quite a bit to shorten
the movie. The Willow Song is cut totally and a lot of places an abrupt
stop and go where they cut longer sections. Though I do very much enjoy
the movie and the singing, I don't think Domingo sounds better relative
to the Levine conducted recording - and doesn't seem as involved and
nuanced, especially compared to what he'd do in a live performance. A
much more baritonal and heavy sound (almost a different voice), the
slower tempo might have added to that, or Zeffirelli requested he sing it
that way. Actually, the first time I watched the video I thought Domingo
was trying to sound like/emulate Del Monaco's sound. Since you're a
Del Monaco fan that might have made his performance sound more appealing
vs. the other two recordings. Ricciarelli and Diaz seem fine singing -
wise and I feel they were good choices in terms of physical casting for
the movie. They did a great job with the make up on Domingo, but I
swear they shaved off his chest hair for the movie... criminal! :-))))
Marcia
Man F Wong
> becoming better and better. Not only do they greatly increase the
> classical CDs available, but their price are cheaper than BMG. Besides
all
> SONY CDs which are not available for BMG, their catalog is bigger than
> ever, almost reach the size of BMG, with many overlap between the two
> clubs. But CH is always cheaper than BMG.
>
Really? I used to use CH also, but canceled a couple years back. At the
time, they still had rather whimpy sales and small selection beyond
Sony/CBS titles. BMG had grown much more substantially by aggressively(?)
adding newer, more highly regarded titles (by the Brits) while CH seemed to
decline. These now include new reissues as well.
> For example, most of CH's single CDs list $15.98 while BMG already
> increased to $16.98.
This will probably happen to CH soon enough since the retail price increase
has also shown up in local retail chains, etc.
> Their 2-CD set varies from $18.98 to $27.98, (the
> Brahms Piano Concertos and Schumann Symphonies from Masterworks heritage
> list $21.98, so a 2/3 off gives you $7.33 each set!) but BMG only has two
> slots: $25.98 for a few, and most of them $33.98 now (including most
> operas). Another example: while BMG's Turandot (Nilsson/Corelli/Scotto,
> EMI) labeled $25.98, CH has it for only $21.98.
Really? Have you made similar comparisons for the majority of identical
titles that both carry or is the Turandot set in the minority for such
price differences?
> BMG used to have the
> advantage of always on sale (buy 1 get 2, 2/3 off etc.), now CH often has
> the same thing.
>
> Even better, all 3 or more CD sets at CH are always 50% off without other
> purchase requirement. That brings Horowitz's 13 CD Columbia recording
box
> down to ~65, Goode's complete Beethoven sonata for $45 (10 CD), Brebdel's
> new Beethoven cycle for $~65, The Emerson Beethoven quartets for $56,
> etc....
>
50% off on big sets would be nice since BMG tends to limit their sales to
titles w/ 3 CDs or less. Of course, this concerns me little since I
generally don't care for those big box sets offered by BMG (and probably CH
as well).
Are all these CH sales, etc. you mention regularly offered to "prefered"
members only? Or are they also offered frequently to intro members who
haven't yet fulfilled the intro obligation? Also, can any purchase via
sales (eg. Buy-1-Get-1-Free or better) apply toward that intro obligation?
This can be a stickler for new members since CH requires purchase of 6(!!)
CDs at full club price as part of the intro deal.
> BTW, CH shipping charges are much lower and simple than BMG. The 13CD
> Horowitz set was charged ~$10. Think BMG can do that? My recent
purchase
> of 12 CD got a shipping charge of $21!
>
Hmmm... $10 S&H for 13 CDs is pretty good, but I've never bought a big box
set from BMG, so I wouldn't know what they'd charge. However, I do believe
$21 S&H for 12 CDs mixed across single, 2-CD and 3-CD combos sounds like
what BMG charges alright. Did you mean that's what BMG charged you, or was
it CH??
> I have been a member of BMG for 5 years and buy less and less from them,
> unless they give me the biggest sale of buy 1 get 3 free. Why do I want
to
> pay almost $10 (even in their normal 2/3 off sale) when I can buy cheaper
> from CH? Wake up BMG, do not think you are the only classical music
club.
>
Well, I suppose that's fine if you've fulfilled CH's intro obligation
already, but what if you're a new member? BMG only requires purchase of 1
CD at full price in the intro deal. Even if they charge an extra $1 S&H
per CD, BMG is still ahead of CH until you've acquired ~63 CDs (free and
otherwise) assuming CH does not raise their club prices or S&H charges to
equal BMG's w/in that time frame. If CH raises prices before a new member
has substantial time to buy anything, it'd take ~85 CDs to even out
assuming the $1 S&H advantage which could change at any time. I seriously
doubt that CH will maintain the price and, more significantly, S&H
advantages over BMG beyond the 2-3 years it'd likely take to acquire 60-85
CDs from one club.
In the end, CH's total club offering is probably on par w/ BMG's in
practice. If you're an old member, you've already paid substantially to
get to where you are. If you're new, well, I've already written on that.
Nonetheless, it's nice to see CH finally succumbing to the competition, and
both are now substantially cheaper than buying from anywhere else (except
used) for the most part. However, the combo together will likely not offer
even 40% of what I'd buy, and it'd be much less proportionally if I collect
like most of the contributors in this ng.
Regards,
_Man_
--
To reply via email, just remove **NOSPAM** from my address.
Ed Rosen
In <6d5ml4$a0h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> wwi...@one.net writes:
>
>In article <6d4hhr$o...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
> lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
> <<<snip>>>
>> But still, the basic sound was not hefty enough for Otelli,
>
>Ed, your freudian Corelli has slipped out.........
>
Ed
Fred
TomKauf2
Jon seems to feel that the question of whch Domingo Otello is better is limited
to his fans. Sorry, not so--these discussions are supposed to be open to all
participants--and for me trying to decide which Domingo Otello is better is
like trying to decide whether you want to die by cyanide, arsenic or the
electric chair. I'll take none of the above--and neither of the two Otello
recordings ruined by an inadequate Otello.
I see no point in explaining why I don't like Domingo's Otello. Ed Rosen has
already done so, and I fully concur. But would like to add that he really gets
off on the wrong foot with his anaemic Esultate. That's where a completely
different type of voice is required (listen to Tamagno or O'Sullivan exuding
masculinity and power). He is a conquering hero who has just returned from
defeating the Turks. Domingo does not sound it--many other tenors do. Or listen
to some of the classic recordings of Ora e per sempre addio (Piccaluga), Dio mi
potevi scagliar (O'Sullivan) and Niun mi tema (too many to list). Or the
Caruso-Ruffo Si pel ciel.
As Ed says--get Del Monaco. And, as Paolo says, even McCracken is better.
And as I write this, I view the forthcoming Prophete in Vienna--with you know
who--with great trepidation.
Now if that's Domingo bashing, so be it. As far as I am concerned, it's an
expression of my honest opinion--and a reply to a request for advice.
I'd sign this with my usual cheers--but the thought of prophete with Domingo is
too depressing.
donpaolo
TomKauf2 <tomk...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980227144...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
(Snipped with apologies)
One of the Domingo fans wrote something to the effect that the studio
recordings do not capture the essence of his on stage performances. You
betcha - thanks to the engineers & editing & re-takes, the straining &
cracked high notes are absent, and there are power boosts to boot.
I'd rather listen to Sir Lawrence Olivier or Sir Richard Burton SING the
role, than to endure Mr. D's painful attempt, no matter which of the half
dozen or so versions we may choose from. What was the legendary Parma fan
screaming? "Until you get it right"?
DonPaolo
RDargenio
Don P, I am hesitant to "slam" major singers who have contributed, like
Domingo, but I have been disappointed by all the reports of studio engineering
and splicing of different performances for video productions. It would be a
crime to reduce a live art like opera to the same levels as pop music in the
making of recordings.
Of course it's been going on for a long time, but it isn't acceptable to me.
Not by a long shot.
Simon Roberts
Clifford Ando (an...@yorku.ca) wrote:
: On 25 Feb 1998, Simon Roberts wrote:
: > The first one is better (since you're only talking about recordings you
: > can get from a club I won't mention such delights as the live
: > Domingo/Kleiber), probably.
: I saw a Domingo/Kleiber live at the Met. What performance do you refer
: to, and on what label is it available? Not that I need to supplement my
: collection of Otello recordings, but, well, Kleiber's conducting in the
: performance that I saw was nothing short of astonishing.
I'm most envious.... I have two live Kleiber Otellos on CD: Artists FED
020.21 is La Scala on tour in Japan with Domingo, Tomowa-Sintow and
Silvano Carroli (who he?) from 1981; the other is on Exclusive EX92T08/09
with a better cast, on paper anyway (it's a while since I heard either):
Freni, Domingo, Cappuccilli, La Scala at home in 1976. Let me know if you
want to know more about these.
Simon
William D. Kasimer
Simon Roberts wrote:
> the other is on Exclusive EX92T08/09
> with a better cast, on paper anyway (it's a while since I heard either):
> Freni, Domingo, Cappuccilli, La Scala at home in 1976.
The same performance was recently issued by Myto, in better sound.
Adam Ross
Actually, once in a blue moon in selected advertisements, CH does do an
intro offer similar to BMGs, in other word, get so many CDs with the
requirement only to buy one more. You really have to look for them though
and count yourself lucky if you find them, they are pretty rare. I found
mine in either a Smithsonian or a Harpers magazine a couple of years ago.
If you already have joined, the best thing to do is to try to fulfill your
requirement with the cheapest recordings, those that go for $12.98 and
thus still technically "full price". Sometimes these include some real
bargains, including some live concert recordings of Sviatoslav Richter
playing Schubert sonatas in Japan on the Olympia label, recordings which
I've found difficult to find in stores and which seemed to sell for more
than what CH was asking for them.
Finally, their occasional 50% off deals on box sets are often very
worthwhile -- I got Richard goode's 10 disc set of Beethoven sonatas for
just over $50 -- and that included shipping!
In any CD club, however, the best deal is to join, fulfill your
requirements while trying to get free discs with those full price
purchases, and then rejoin! Free discs are always cheaper than buy 1 get
2 free! And, if you get a friend to "sign you up", your friend will get
free music too. Play the game!
Adam
Seattle, WA
GAUS
AT wrote:
>
> buy yourself an both of delmonaco's otellos, the mono and the stereo.
> do not waste your time with inferior performers of this role.
>
> > VICKERS/RYSANEK/GOBBI/SERAFIN), and want to choose between two Domingo's:
> > RCA DOMINGO/SCOTTO/MILNES/LEVINE, or DG DOMINGO/STUDER/LEIFERKUS/CHUNG.
> > Both of them are cheap (~$6 before S/H from different CD clubs), and I
> > assume that both have good sound. I would like to ask your advice on
> which
> > one I should go. Thanks a lot.
> >
Go with Del Monaco.
Tony Movshon
William D. Kasimer" <wk...@mindspring.com> writes:
> Simon Roberts wrote:
>
> > the other is on Exclusive EX92T08/09
> > with a better cast, on paper anyway (it's a while since I heard either):
> > Freni, Domingo, Cappuccilli, La Scala at home in 1976.
>
> The same performance was recently issued by Myto, in better sound.
Hmmm. Tempting. Stereo, perhaps?
Tony Movshon
Center for Neural Science New York University
http://www.cns.nyu.edu mov...@nyu.edu
Dylan Bryan-Dolman
There is a video of this cast and conductor from 1976 at the San Francisco
Virgin store. Has anyone seen it? Is the sound okay? Not that I can
afford it, but ...
Dylan
=dbd=
Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote:
> I'm most envious.... I have two live Kleiber Otellos on CD: Artists FED
> 020.21 is La Scala on tour in Japan with Domingo, Tomowa-Sintow and
> Silvano Carroli (who he?) from 1981; the other is on Exclusive EX92T08/09
> with a better cast, on paper anyway (it's a while since I heard either):
Enrique Eskenazi
In article <19980227144...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
tomk...@aol.com (TomKauf2) wrote:
>Or listen
>to some of the classic recordings of Ora e per sempre addio
(Piccaluga), Dio mi
>potevi scagliar (O'Sullivan) and Niun mi tema (too many to list).
And yet I would be grateful if you list a bunch of them.
---
Enrique
eske...@mail.sendanet.es
Io chi sono? Eh, non lo so.
-Nol sapete?
Quasi no.
Jack Johnson
Peter wrote in message <34F66A...@ix.netcom.com>...
>Li Feng wrote:
>
>> I think Columbia House Music Club Classical Division has become
>> better and better. Not only did they greatly increase the classical
>> CDs available, but their prices are cheaper than BMG.
>
They also do not automatically send you a "featured selection," usually
crap.
Jewel D'Aundra Faulkner
On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Peter wrote:
> Li Feng wrote:
>
> > I think Columbia House Music Club Classical Division has become
> > better and better. Not only did they greatly increase the classical
> > CDs available, but their prices are cheaper than BMG.
>
> But all the ads that I have ever seen for Columbia House require the
> purchase of six CD's at "full price" in order to become a member.
>
> That is surely not as good as the purchase of just one CD at "full
> price" which is the requirement for joining BMG.
>
> Am I missing something? Do you, or anyone else, know of a better way to
> join Columbia House, if so, please do be kind enough to tell us how.
DON'T JOIN!!! Columbia House, in my opinion, is absolutely evil
and a complete rip-off. They want your money, your soul, and your first
born child. I couldn't drop them fast enough when I stupidly joined, and
I wouldn't wish that 'service' on anyone. Go for BMG--I've been a member
for close to two years now, and I have yet to have problems with them. I
was a member of Columbia House for a year and hated it. Everyone I know
who has joined Columbia House has had more or less the same reaction,
which is complete and utter hatred.
-jewel
***
"Mac users often swear by their Macs, whereas PC users often swear at
their PCs."
***
"DOS Computers, manufactured by millions of companies, are by far the most
popular, with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans,
on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous
than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form."
Bradley P. Von Haden
fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
>And of course, I always take the other offer when you join: get
>one CD for $6.98 and an extra free. And you have only 5
>obligations to go. This offer is printed on almost all CH flyers
>I have seen.
Are you sure the "Bonus Offer" still reduces the membership purchase requirement
Do other current ads include the reduction statement?
**** Maintainer of the CD CLUB FAQs ****
**** http://www.primenet.com/~bpvh/cdclubs/ ****
**** ftp://ftp.primenet.com/users/b/bpvh/cdclubfq.txt/ ****
**** bpvh Internet: bp...@primenet.com Delphi: bpvh ****
**** Posted by an Apple IIgs using my own Proterm 3.1 File Macro ****
Bradley P. Von Haden
fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
>And of course, I always take the other offer when you join: get
>one CD for $6.98 and an extra free. And you have only 5
>obligations to go. This offer is printed on almost all CH flyers
>I have seen.
Are you sure the "Bonus Offer" still reduces the membership purchase
requirement by one? I looked at a few recent CH ads in Rolling Stone
and the offer no long states that using the "Bonus Offer" reduces the
membership purchase requirement from 6 to 5.
david
Of course, there are three commercial recordings of Otello with Domingo:
Levine (RCA), Maazel (EMI), Chung (DGG).
-david gable
Simon Roberts
david (dga...@midway.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: Of course, there are three commercial recordings of Otello with Domingo:
: Levine (RCA), Maazel (EMI), Chung (DGG).
Oh, yes, I had managed to suppress my memories of Maazel's; the first and
last time I ever bought anything on the basis of an Alan Blyth rave review
in Gramophone....
Simon
Man F Wong
Jack Johnson <jj_a...@jumpnet.com> wrote in article
<6dalf7$8lg$1...@news.jumpnet.com>...
> >
> >> I think Columbia House Music Club Classical Division has become
> >> better and better. Not only did they greatly increase the classical
> >> CDs available, but their prices are cheaper than BMG.
>
> crap.
>
Actually, if you contact BMG, you can tell them not to automatically send
you the "featured selection" also. I did that over the phone soon after I
rejoined about a year ago. Presumably, their membership has "convinced"
them over the years to adopt such a policy by various actions, eg.
returning unwanted CDs, explicit correspondence. They probably decided
that it's simply not profitable to run the business exclusively that way
anymore.
Man F Wong
Bradley P. Von Haden <bp...@primenet.com> wrote in article
<6dd564$j...@nntp02.primenet.com>...
> fen...@aecom.yu.edu (Li Feng) wrote:
> >And of course, I always take the other offer when you join: get
> >one CD for $6.98 and an extra free. And you have only 5
> >obligations to go. This offer is printed on almost all CH flyers
> >I have seen.
>
> Are you sure the "Bonus Offer" still reduces the membership purchase
> requirement by one? I looked at a few recent CH ads in Rolling Stone
> and the offer no long states that using the "Bonus Offer" reduces the
> membership purchase requirement from 6 to 5.
>
> Do other current ads include the reduction statement?
>
I also checked the CH website after responding to his post the other day,
and noticed that offer seems no longer valid. I also noticed that
selecting multi-CD sets in the intro offer at the website seems to count as
single items instead of multiples. Presumably, if you do select multi-CD
sets, CH will account for them in the actual application process even if
the "shopping cart" does not indicate so. Anybody know how this works?
Norman M. Schwartz
Man F Wong wrote:
> I also checked the CH website after responding to his post the other day,
> and noticed that offer seems no longer valid. I also noticed that
> selecting multi-CD sets in the intro offer at the website seems to count as
> single items instead of multiples. Presumably, if you do select multi-CD
> sets, CH will account for them in the actual application process even if
> the "shopping cart" does not indicate so. Anybody know how this works?
Try calling CH: (800)-457-0500
Norman
David Griegel
Peter (p_ul...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: But all the ads that I have ever seen for Columbia House require the
: purchase of six CD's at "full price" in order to become a member.
: That is surely not as good as the purchase of just one CD at "full
: price" which is the requirement for joining BMG.
: Am I missing something? Do you, or anyone else, know of a better way to
: join Columbia House, if so, please do be kind enough to tell us how.
Yes, you're missing something. When you first join Columbia House you
get about 12 CDs for free (or perhaps one cent) plus shipping and
handling. Subsequently, you are obligated to buy six more CDs at full
price, but you can get these in conjunction with buy-one-get-two-free
deals, so it's quite reasonable. Columbia House is great for single discs;
2+ disc sets can be tricky to get from them for a reasonable price. Unlike
BMG, they are reluctant to send one free two-disc set instead of two free
single-disc sets in their buy-one-get-two free deals. But two-disc sets
sometimes go on sale for $7.99 or for 2/3 off. Also, the base price of
two-disc sets is usually less than twice the base price of a single disc.
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------
David Griegel E-mail: dkg@h?n?c.com
(Remove the question marks to get the correct E-mail address.)
Man F Wong
David Griegel <gri...@umd.edu> wrote in article
<6dko1f$9m5$1...@hecate.umd.edu>...
>
> Yes, you're missing something. When you first join Columbia House you
> get about 12 CDs for free (or perhaps one cent) plus shipping and
> handling. Subsequently, you are obligated to buy six more CDs at full
> price, but you can get these in conjunction with buy-one-get-two-free
> deals, so it's quite reasonable. Columbia House is great for single
discs;
> 2+ disc sets can be tricky to get from them for a reasonable price.
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that I can get 11 or 12 free CDs
in the intro deal and fulfill the 6-CD-at-full-price obligation by buying 6
CDs and getting 12 additional CDs for free in a typical buy-1-get-2-free
deal? IOW, would I get 29-30 CDs for the price of 6 plus S&H and tax
assuming I buy all 6 obligatory CDs in buy-1-get-2-free deals?
Are you sure they offer buy-1-get-2-free deals immediately even to new
members before they fulfill the 6-CD obligation?
Grant
Man F Wong wrote:
> Are you sure they offer buy-1-get-2-free deals immediately even to new
> members before they fulfill the 6-CD obligation?
Yes, I am sure. I just joined the club and the first mailing I got from them
was a buy-1-get-2-free offer. The "one" that you buy does go toward the
obligation.
Grant
Man F Wong
Grant <gran...@nospam.nr.infi.net> wrote in article
<3501BD0D...@nospam.nr.infi.net>...
>
> Yes, I am sure. I just joined the club and the first mailing I got from
them
> was a buy-1-get-2-free offer. The "one" that you buy does go toward the
> obligation.
Thanks. I guess I'll visit their website again to check out their catalog.
at...@raycer.com
The best deal I had before is that you pay 1cent for first 12 CDs (CH pay
S&H) at the same time buy 1st obligation CD @6.95 + another free (you pay
S&H for these 2CDs), the you need to buy 5 more for obligation. When
buy-one-get-two-free comes, buy all these 5 obligations and get 10 free.
Also some 3cd set are NF (not-for-free) but all 2cd set can be free.
If you need 3cd set like Horowitz live at Caneigie Hall exclusive from
CBS, you can not get them from intro 12 free cd offer because they are
NF. You can, however, buy 3cd set @34.95 and get 2 2cd sets free and this
count that you already buy 3 cd at regular price and you only need to buy
2 more at regular price ......
BTW, the deal that CH pay the S&H for 12 intro CDs does not happen frequently.
Albert
> Yes, you're missing something. When you first join Columbia House you
> get about 12 CDs for free (or perhaps one cent) plus shipping and
> handling. Subsequently, you are obligated to buy six more CDs at full
> price, but you can get these in conjunction with buy-one-get-two-free
> deals, so it's quite reasonable. Columbia House is great for single discs;
> 2+ disc sets can be tricky to get from them for a reasonable price. Unlike
> BMG, they are reluctant to send one free two-disc set instead of two free
> single-disc sets in their buy-one-get-two free deals. But two-disc sets
> sometimes go on sale for $7.99 or for 2/3 off. Also, the base price of
> two-disc sets is usually less than twice the base price of a single disc.
>
> Dave
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> David Griegel E-mail: dkg@h?n?c.com
> (Remove the question marks to get the correct E-mail address.)
>
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