CORELLI
Armando Terron
IS IT POSSIBLE TO DIPUTE FRANCO CORELLI'S STATUS AS THE TENOR OF THE
CENTURY?
LISTENING TO WHAT WE HAVE HAD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, I WOULD SAY NO
CORELLI, WHERE ARE YOU????? PLEASRESCUE US.( GIVE TEBALDI A LITTLE PUSH
TOO!!!)
can...@webtv.net
what about my newly beloved Alain Vanzo? :)
TomKauf2
Armando Terron says:
>IS IT POSSIBLE TO DIPUTE FRANCO CORELLI'S STATUS AS THE TENOR OF THE >CENTURY?
>LISTENING TO WHAT WE HAVE HAD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, I WOULD SAY NO
Well, one of the ten or twenty best--but (and it's all a matter of taste) I
would prefer Piccaluga, Lauri-Volpi, O'Sullivan, Thill, Carreras, Lazaro,
Escalais, Cortis, Palet, Jadlowker or Slezak. Others might prefer Gigli,
Caruso, Pavarotti or Bjoerling. Still others might prefer Del Monaco. That's
how it goes in singer preferences.
Tenors--long may they rule.
Tom
>
>
>
>
>
Fred
GAUS
Fred wrote:
>
> I would say that Corelli & Del Monaco were both among the greatest
> tenors since 1950. But most acknowledge Caruso as the greatest
> tenor,even greatest voice of this entire century! He is the yardstick by
> whom all others are measured! Any debate on this point? Too bad he
> didn't live a little longer to make electrical recordings, or to sing
> Otello! Please comment, pro or con. Ciao.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
Fully agree....... no comment.
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
In article <6css47$gua$1...@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Lur...@webtv.net (Fred) wrote:
>
>
> --WebTV-Mail-227075089-17227
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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>
> I would say that Corelli & Del Monaco were both among the greatest
> tenors since 1950. But most acknowledge Caruso as the greatest
> tenor,even greatest voice of this entire century! He is the yardstick by
> whom all others are measured! Any debate on this point? Too bad he
> didn't live a little longer to make electrical recordings, or to sing
> Otello! Please comment, pro or con. Ciao.
I am a big fan of Caruso: very beautiful voice, passionate interpretations.
Because of the primitive recording equipment we can't really experience his
high notes. He had to pull away from the recording horn when singing in the
upper register. Although he apparently became a convincing actor in
dramatic parts, he can't compare to some of the more recent tenors such as
Kraus, Corelli, and Del Monaco as a romantic stage figure. Caruso was
certainly one of the most famous and influential singers of any age.
>
> --WebTV-Mail-227075089-17227
> Content-Description: signature
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>
> <html>Always Fred!</html>
>
> <html>
> <embed
> <body: background=
> "http://members.tripod.com/~mintcar/
> bkmar.gif">
> </body>
> </html>
>
> <html>
> <img src=
> "http://members.tripod.com/~lastcallno1/
> notes44.gif">
> </html>
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> <html>
> <embed src =
> "http://members.tripod.com/~webtv41/
> rhapsody.mid">
> </html>
> --WebTV-Mail-227075089-17227--
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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John Lynch
How appropriate that a Corelli fan should display his adulation in LOUD
CAPITAL LETTERS1
Armando Terron wrote:
>
> IS IT POSSIBLE TO DIPUTE FRANCO CORELLI'S STATUS AS THE TENOR OF THE
> CENTURY?
> LISTENING TO WHAT WE HAVE HAD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, I WOULD SAY NO
> CORELLI, WHERE ARE YOU????? PLEASRESCUE US.( GIVE TEBALDI A LITTLE PUSH
> TOO!!!)
--
John Lynch
Klyphil
Corelli, tenor of the century?
I have enjoyed him live and on recordings, and arguably the quality (and
absolutely the duration) of his high notes are unparalleled. But dynamic
variety, depth of charcterization, longevity?
This is a century that has had Enrico Caruso, Lauritz Melchior (who IMHO makes
every other heldentenor sound like a pipsqueak), Beniamino Gigli, James Melton
(just kidding, wanted to see if you were paying attention), Jussi Bjoerling,
the big guy with the beard, Domingo, Krauss, Gedda, DelMonaco, Martinelli, etc.
Corelli might not even make a "short" list of three or four names.
Buoso Donati, Jr.
RDargenio
<<I would say that Corelli & Del Monaco were both among the greatest
tenors since 1950>>
I would just like to point out that del Monaco's career began in 1939 as
Turiddu and due to the war he had less recognition than he would have otherwise
had. I wanted to point this out since many of us in America believe he started
in 1950, which was the year of his North American debut in San Francisco.
Corelli began in 1952 but did not sing in the US until the early 1960s.
RDargenio
<< Caruso was
certainly one of the most famous and influential singers of any age.>>
The most amazing thing to me from a commercial standpoint is the fact that
Caruso sold MILLIONS of records in an age with no television or mass media as
we know it today. Quite an incredible feat.
RDargenio
<< have enjoyed him live and on recordings, and arguably the quality (and
absolutely the duration) of his high notes are unparalleled. But dynamic
variety, depth of charcterization, longevity?
>>
Of course you can make these arguments against Franco Corelli, much as they are
made against del Monaco. But to reduce his contributions to fabulous high notes
I must say I disagree with.
He sang less than he should have, cancelled too often, and had his off nights I
am sure, but there is good reason to recognize him as one of the true titans of
opera.
Stephen R Leopold
Franco Corelli was one of the greatest tenor's of
all-tme. Giovanni Martinelli once said that Corelli,would feel right at
home with the singer's of
the golden age. Corelli had wonderful high notes, that is true,but the
true Corelli experience is in his warmth,sincerity and passion.
I love many tenor's, but there is only one Franco Corelli, there will
never be another one
like him. I have followed his career since 1964,
and i am very proud to be among his most loyal fans.
Stephen R. Leopold
GregF NC
I like Corelli very much in a number of parts, but generally when I find the
music requires greater precision in singing, I find I much prefer other
singers. For me Corelli was great in Andrea Chenier, La Gioconda, Aida, and
(maybe) La Forza del Destino. I am not as fond of his Calaf in Turandot or
Manrico in Trovatore as others in this newsgroup appear to be. And I don't
care for him in French opera at all.
Would anyone else like to mention great Corelli roles? (Huguenots comes to
mind, but I have only heard the duet with Simionato from it.)
Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC
GRNDPADAVE
>Subject: Re: CORELLI
>From: gre...@aol.com (GregF NC)
>Date: Tue, Feb 24, 1998 23:52 EST
>Message-id: <19980225045...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Von Matacic, LA FANCIULLA DEL WEST with Frazzoni and Gobbi, conducted by Votto.
I happen to like his performance as Pollione in the Callas stereo NORMA.
-
But I must say that I thought his greatest role was that of Calaf in TURANDOT.
His performances with Nilsson were legendary. There is no subltely in this
role and Corelli respected that.
-
His Radames disturbs me for his disregard of Verdi's markings in the Nile Scene
(especially the handling of the line "o ciel dei notri amori" where he drops
the last syllable because of his penchant for hanging on to high notes).
-
His French singing suggests that he should have been allowed to sing these
roles in Italian no matter what language his colleagues were using. ==G/P Dave
donpaolo
GregF NC <gre...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980225045...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
> Would anyone else like to mention great Corelli roles? (Huguenots comes
to
> mind, but I have only heard the duet with Simionato from it.)
>
> Greg Fitzmaurice
> Durham, NC
>
Let's see: Cavaradossi, Don Carlo, Ernani, Manrico, Rodolfo, Maurizio,
Raul, Enzo, Chenier, Polione, Meester Johnson, Arrigo, Poliuto, Calaf,
Calaf, Calaf, ....Get the idea?
The only role of his that I did not go bonkers over was Canio. For my
taste, I prefer a darker timbre, such as the incomparable Mario Del Monaco.
Franco Corelli was the most thrilling performer that I ever witnessed in
the roles that he honored us with during his tenure at the Met. He
displayed unsurpassed high notes; vocal shadings such as an incredible
diminuendo; passion & emotion..combined with an animal magnetism that we
have not witnessed either prior to his gracing the stage, or since his
departure.
Cheers,
Don Paolo
GregF NC
In a message dated 98-02-25 06:19:53 EST, you write:
<< But I must say that I thought his greatest role was that of Calaf in
TURANDOT.
His performances with Nilsson were legendary. There is no subltely in this
role and Corelli respected that. >>
Perhaps on stage, you are right. I certainly wish I could have been able to
see one of them. I have heard the Met performance and I don't really find it
any more "winning" a performance there than in the commercially recorded
performance. Of course, I learned Turandot from the Bjoerling recording and
find the "subtlety" he finds in the role and brings to his performance
essential from my point of view.
Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC
Ancona21
<<Would anyone else like to mention great Corelli roles? (Huguenots comes to
mind, but I have only heard the duet with Simionato from it.)>>
Consider the complete Huguenots ("one of the most impressive examples of tenor
singing ever taped"--Penguin/Rough Guide 1997). Gala CD.
Also the live Poliuto w/Callas, Bastianini (Verona CD). Cf. esp. the
remarkable "Sfolgoro divino raggio" in Act II.
Ancona21
Nemo me impune lacessit
dia...@miles33.com
In article <19980224105...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
kly...@aol.com (Klyphil) wrote:
>
Please tell me you are joking! I don't think you've listened to enough
Corelli or you must prefer a more "sterile, unemotional" voice as far as I
can gather from the tenors you have named. There is no one your list who can
capture the sheer excitement of a Corelli live performance. Who, exactly,
would be on your "short list" and in what order?
Diana M.
> Corelli, tenor of the century?
>
> I have enjoyed him live and on recordings, and arguably the quality (and
> absolutely the duration) of his high notes are unparalleled. But dynamic
> variety, depth of charcterization, longevity?
>
> This is a century that has had Enrico Caruso, Lauritz Melchior (who IMHO
makes
> every other heldentenor sound like a pipsqueak), Beniamino Gigli, James
Melton
> (just kidding, wanted to see if you were paying attention), Jussi Bjoerling,
> the big guy with the beard, Domingo, Krauss, Gedda, DelMonaco, Martinelli,
etc.
>
> Corelli might not even make a "short" list of three or four names.
>
> Buoso Donati, Jr.
>
dia...@miles33.com
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
In article <01bd41f9$441f3540$757aaccf@default>,
"donpaolo" <donp...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
> GregF NC <gre...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <19980225045...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> >
> to
> > mind, but I have only heard the duet with Simionato from it.)
> >
> > Durham, NC
> >
> Let's see: Cavaradossi, Don Carlo, Ernani, Manrico, Rodolfo, Maurizio,
> Raul, Enzo, Chenier, Polione, Meester Johnson, Arrigo, Poliuto, Calaf,
> Calaf, Calaf, ....Get the idea?
>
> The only role of his that I did not go bonkers over was Canio. For my
> taste, I prefer a darker timbre, such as the incomparable Mario Del Monaco.
>
> Franco Corelli was the most thrilling performer that I ever witnessed in
> the roles that he honored us with during his tenure at the Met. He
> displayed unsurpassed high notes; vocal shadings such as an incredible
> diminuendo; passion & emotion..combined with an animal magnetism that we
> have not witnessed either prior to his gracing the stage, or since his
> departure.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Don Paolo
I certainly agree, but would add several comments: Corelli had a very
aggressive masculinity which Domingo, for example, lacks. Corelli was
strongly amorous with his leading ladies in operas such as Tosca and Romeo and
Juliette. When he had a sword in his hand, you believed that he would use it
(and he would). He also exuded complete and total self-confidence, which is
amazing since he suffered from extreme stage-fright. He knew what he could do
on stage and showed no shyness in showing it off. A downside of this is that
operas sometimes came to a halt while he held high notes too long for good
taste. On the other hand, he popped out high C's apparently without effort.
WeSingalso
>> Let's see: Cavaradossi, Don Carlo, Ernani, Manrico, Rodolfo, Maurizio,
>> Raul, Enzo, Chenier, Polione, Meester Johnson, Arrigo, Poliuto, Calaf,
>> Calaf, Calaf, ....Get the idea?
DON'T FORGET RADAMES! The Aida with Nillson/Corelli/Bumbry/Sereni Is
INCREDIBLE!!!!!
Can we say "diminuendo on high Bb?" I agree; What a voice, what power!!!!!
Another fan,
Nick>
Stregata
>Corelli tenor of the century?"
You may find Franco Corelli's artistry lacking in variety, dynamics and
longevity; after all, operatic likes and dislikes are highly subjective. But
to state that Franco Corelli would not even make a short list of candidates for
the title "Tenor of the Century" is, to say the least, ridiculous.
For example, some people may not like Falstaff, or La Fanciulla del West, or
Tannhauser, but to deny the worth of these operatic masterpieces would be,
again, ridiculous.
Franco Corelli holds a lofty and legitimate place in operatic history as one of
the great tenor voices of the 20th century. As such, a rightful contender to
appear in a short or long list of the best voices of this century.
Stregata
GRNDPADAVE
>You may find Franco Corelli's artistry lacking in variety, dynamics and
>longevity; after all, operatic likes and dislikes are highly subjective. But
>to state that Franco Corelli would not even make a short list of candidates
>for
>the title "Tenor of the Century" is, to say the least, ridiculous.
>
>For example, some people may not like Falstaff, or La Fanciulla del West, or
>Tannhauser, but to deny the worth of these operatic masterpieces would be,
>again, ridiculous.
>
>Franco Corelli holds a lofty and legitimate place in operatic history as one
>of
>the great tenor voices of the 20th century. As such, a rightful contender to
>appear in a short or long list of the best voices of this century.
===
On matters of opinion, it is certainly not ridiculuous to argue that Verdi,
Wagner and Puccini produced better works than those here proferred as
masterpieces.
-
Someone who enjoys Franco Corelli is amply rewarded by being able to hear such
a sumptuous voice without having to impose an exalted opinion upon those who
happen not to share it.
-
Having sat through a charmless and ungallic WERTHER with Signor Corelli in the
title role, I am not sure upon what short list his name might have been duly
inscribed.
==G/P Dave
Stregata
Grandpa Dave wrote:
>On matters of opinion, it is certainly not ridiculuous to argue that Verdi,
>Wagner and Puccini produced better works than those here proferred as
>masterpieces.
You didn't get the true meaning of my statement, did you, Grandpa? Your reply
has nothing to do whatsoever with the meaning that I wanted to convey.
>Having sat through a charmless and ungallic WERTHER with Signor Corelli in
>the
>title role, I am not sure upon what short list his name might have been duly
>inscribed.
>==G/P Dave
True, Signor Corelli's French diction and charm leave too much to be desired,
but is that reason enough not to include him in a list of the best tenors of
this century? Come on! You, on the other hand, include Guy Chauvet and
Gilbert Py, who shouted the French language instead of caressing it, in your
best list of French tenors!!! Puzzling!
Stregata
Stregata
Enrique Eskenazi
In article <19980227191...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
>>For example, some people may not like Falstaff, or La Fanciulla del
West, or
>>Tannhauser, but to deny the worth of these operatic masterpieces would
be,
>>again, ridiculous.
>>
>On matters of opinion, it is certainly not ridiculuous to argue that
Verdi,
>Wagner and Puccini produced better works than those here proferred as
>masterpieces.
>-
I agree in that Puccini produced better works than Fanciulla or Wagner
greater than Tannhauser, but not in the Verdi item.Verdi might have
produced as good a work as Falstaff. Better than that is impossible (and
not only for Verdi:->)
---
Enrique
eske...@mail.sendanet.es
Io chi sono? Eh, non lo so.
-Nol sapete?
Quasi no.
Klyphil
>Please tell me you are joking! I don't think you've listened to
>enough
Corelli or you must prefer a more "sterile, unemotional" voice as far
>as I
can gather from the tenors you have named. There is no one your list
>who can
capture the sheer excitement of a Corelli live performance. Who,
>exactly,
would be on your "short list" and in what order?
Well, none of us have heard Caruso live, but I would agree that I know of no
tenor who could equal the sheer excitement of Corelli live. The Cavaradossi (2)
and Calaf that I heard in person had pounding-heart excitement. And yes, opera
is very much about excitement (and about being highly opinionated, like you and
I). I am just not ready to crown him tenor of the century.
"Tenor of the century" has to have additional qualifications: musicianship,
longevity, depth of characterization, broad repertory. Corelli is deficient in
these qualities, lacks imagination, and - for me at least - that tremulous
flutter in part of his voice is tiring. All that said, if he were singing in
Houston next week I'd walk there to hear him. And if I were runnning an opera
house I'd build a season around Signor Fermato!
My short list:
Caruso -no tenor was more sincerely emotional, he revolutionized the category
"tenor" (have you heard his predecessors?), and saved the Met, his recordings
are still vital, no further explanation needed.
Bjoerling - a bit cold? yes, but probably the most sheerly beautiful tenor
instrument on record
Melchior - unrivalled in his category
Pavarotti - yes, he was a victim of his own success, and he became stilted, but
he must be on the list just because he wore the "popular" crown for so long
Buoso Donati, Jr.
donpaolo
GRNDPADAVE <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980227191...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> Someone who enjoys Franco Corelli is amply rewarded by being able to hear
such
> a sumptuous voice without having to impose an exalted opinion upon those
who
> happen not to share it.
Did you ever consider that just perhaps Stregata was trying to share her
enthusiasm? You, of all people, dare to suggest that another poster is
*imposing* an opinion?
If you do not share the high regard for the magnificent Mr. Corelli, that
is your misfortune, because you are indeed missing what great Italian tenor
singing is all about. However, do not assume to tell others that they
should not praise him to the limits, as he deserves.
So, why don't you take another shot of Geritol, relax & "allow" others to
express their opinions.
Cordially,
DonP.
Fiorella S. Beckmeier
I found the above quite interesting in view of past disagreements on
this list. So, just for fun, I thought I'd try a little "substitution"
which may illustrate the kind of double standard some individuals apply
to those who disagree with them. So here it goes:
> Someone might write:
> > Someone who enjoys "Placido Domingo" is amply rewarded by being able to hear such a sumptuous voice without having to impose an exalted opinion upon those who happen not to share it.
> Someone may answer:
> Did you ever consider that just perhaps [fill in name] was trying to share her> enthusiasm? You, of all people, dare to suggest that another poster is> *imposing* an opinion?
>
> If you do not share the high regard for the magnificent Mr. "Domingo", that> is your misfortune, because you are indeed missing what the great "Spanish" tenor> singing is all about. However, do not assume to tell others that they> should not praise him to the limits, as he deserves.
>
> So, why don't you take another shot of Geritol, relax & "allow" others to> express their opinions.
Thank you for the opportunity. Why no simply say, I disagree with
you for this and this reason, but you are entitled to your opinion.
The reference to Geritol is a rather cheap shot.
Cordially,
Fiorella
david
Franco Corelli a great Raoul? You have to be joking. He absolutely
butchers "Plus blanche" or whatever it is in Italian. In the live La
Scala recording, he's better in the great love duet with Simionato, but
he is not remotely an idiomatic Raoul. He absolutely butchers the
phrasing of "Plus blanche," and while he honestly tries, he can't scale
his instrument down and control it at the same time in "Plus blanche,"
without which you simply are not a great Raoul.
-David Gable
James Jorden
But is he any good at "Plus blanche"?
--
james jorden
jjo...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.anaserve.com/~parterre
"Was brauche ich einen Baum auf der Buehne, wenn ich eine Astrid Varnay
habe?"
-- Wieland Wagner
dia...@miles33.com
the
> title role, I am not sure upon what short list his name might have been duly
> inscribed.
> ==G/P Dave
>
G/P Dave,
You're choosing one opera on which to form an opinion? My suggestion would be
for you to buy some Live CDs and expand your mind as far as Corelli is
concerned. I'm not saying he was the best - that's a matter of personal
opinion, but you CANNOT relegate this man to the tenor trash heap of
mediocrities - that's ridiculous. He deserves his place up there with the
greatest of the greats. No one is building a shrine to him by praising him -
we just recognize his tremendous talents and whether you want to admit it or
not his talents are phenomenal. His style may not be to everyone's liking but
at least he has style, and emotion, and feeling - and, does not just sing
notes on a page. You are not being fair in your criticism of him based on one
performance of Werther you witnessed. If you would like a list of
performances to listen to I'm certain any one of us on this NG would be happy
to provide you with one.
dianam
dia...@miles33.com
In article <19980228121...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
kly...@aol.com (Klyphil) wrote:
>
> "Tenor of the century" has to have additional qualifications: musicianship,
> longevity, depth of characterization, broad repertory. Corelli is deficient
in
> these qualities, lacks imagination, and - for me at least - that tremulous
> flutter in part of his voice is tiring. All that said, if he were singing in
>
> Buoso Donati, Jr.
>
Signor Donati,
Just how long is long as far as longevity in signing is concerned? Twenty,
thirty, forty years? Some people go on singing far longer than they should.
He stopped when he thought he should have because of vocal problems. It was a
shame he did not return to singing when he overcame these problems. As far as
depth of characterization, what exactly do you mean? Just how emotionally
involved with the characters do you want him to get? As far as that subject
is concerned there are few others who can touch him. As I said, you seem to
prefer a more sterile voice. How can you put Bjoerling on your list and then
criticize Corelli for lacking in depth of characterization? I have the
"recommnded" version of Boheme w/Bjoerling and I won't listen to it again.
I'm not saying the singing isn't beautiful, but it's "Bjoerling Boring." He's
the most civilized bohemian I've ever heard.
You don't think Corelli's repertory was broad enough? Pavarotti is the worst
offender in this category. He couldn't even learn Forza last year because he
said he didn't have enough time! His is the most limited of all and
justifies it by saying a tenor should only have about 20-25 roles in his
repertory. That, to me, spells just one thing - lazyness. You can only sing
L'Elisir and Boheme so many times. Corelli worked hard at varying his roles
and that's a fact. He worked hard at everything.
I don't have much to say about Melchoir except using your words "unrivalled IN
HIS CATEGORY." So, please don't speak of Corelli's "limited repertory" when
you've got Melchior on the list.
As far as Caruso, it's hard to judge because the recordings are not good. I
do not dispute his greatness and he definitely would be on the list based on
what I have heard.
I suggest you re-think your short list. You are doing a disservice to a great
artist.
GRNDPADAVE
>Subject: Re: CORELLI
>From: dia...@miles33.com
>Date: Mon, Mar 2, 1998 13:11 EST
>Message-id: <6desnu$rin$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
SNIP - SNIP - SNIP
I'm not saying he was the best - that's a matter of personal
>opinion, but you CANNOT relegate this man to the tenor trash heap of
>mediocrities - that's ridiculous. He deserves his place up there with the
>greatest of the greats. No one is building a shrine to him by praising him -
>we just recognize his tremendous talents and whether you want to admit it or
>not his talents are phenomenal. His style may not be to everyone's liking
>but
>at least he has style, and emotion, and feeling - and, does not just sing
>notes on a page.
=====
Calm down. Take a breath.
-
Corelli scores very high in my opinion in ANDREA CHENIER, PAGLIACCI, LA
FANCIULLA DEL WEST, TURANDOT, DON CARLOS, GLI UGANOTTI.
-
He is, in my judgment, a consequential artist. But he is not always a
conscientious artist.
-
When he approaches a line like "o ciel dei nostri amori" (AIDA Act III) and
hangs on to the high note (on the penultimate syllable) so that he drops the
final syllable and disregards totally the "dolce" marking I cannot rate him (as
Radames) superior to Jussi Bjoerling.
-
There is a narcissism about his high note strutting in IL TROVATORE that I find
unattractive. So I prefer Domingo's Manrico, which is more impassioned and in
character.
-
My favorite performers are those who make me forget who they are while making
me aware of who the character is that they are impersonating.
==G/P Dave
Jack Johnson
I think Corelli is exciting, but methinks the lady doth protest too much.
>G/P Dave,
>You're choosing one opera on which to form an opinion? My suggestion would
be
>for you to buy some Live CDs and expand your mind as far as Corelli is
>concerned. I'm not saying he was the best - that's a matter of personal
>opinion, but you CANNOT relegate this man to the tenor trash heap of
>mediocrities - that's ridiculous. He deserves his place up there with the
>greatest of the greats. No one is building a shrine to him by praising
him -
>we just recognize his tremendous talents and whether you want to admit it
or
>not his talents are phenomenal. His style may not be to everyone's liking
but
>at least he has style, and emotion, and feeling - and, does not just sing
donpaolo
This self-righteous sermon in dealing with others is being delivered from
the same pulpit from which emanated accusations of "pathological"; from
which demands for "credentials" were issued; from which terms such as
"ranting & raving" were used...all against individuals daring to have &
express an opinion contrary to the "party line".
What's the appropriate descriptive term? Ah, yes - "hypocrisy".
DonPaolo
Fiorella S. Beckmeier <fsrw...@erols.com> wrote in article
<34FA0B...@erols.com>...
GRNDPADAVE
>From: "donpaolo" <donp...@erols.com>
>Date: Mon, Mar 2, 1998 19:23 EST
>Message-id: <01bd463a$9cc8e160$a346accf@default>
>
>This self-righteous sermon in dealing with others is being delivered from
>the same pulpit from which emanated accusations of "pathological"; from
>which demands for "credentials" were issued; from which terms such as
>"ranting & raving" were used...all against individuals daring to have &
>express an opinion contrary to the "party line".
>
>What's the appropriate descriptive term? Ah, yes - "hypocrisy".
>
Well, it looks like you found your shoe size. Wear them in good health !!
WESTLIT
Grndpadave wrote:
<<When he [Corelli] approaches a line like "o ciel dei nostri amori" (AIDA Act
III) and
hangs on to the high note (on the penultimate syllable) so that he drops the
final syllable and disregards totally the "dolce" marking I cannot rate him (as
Radames) superior to Jussi Bjoerling.
-
There is a narcissism about his high note strutting in IL TROVATORE that I find
unattractive. >>
If you've got it, flaunt it.
G/P Dave, you seem to have a thing about tenors holding onto high notes and/or
interpolating. I recall your earlier post praising Margison for holding the
"Pira" top note no longer than Verdi wrote it and disparaging tenors who sing
"unwritten" (interpolated) top notes. From this I gather that Margison may be
considered one of the few true and faithful interpreters of Verdi and that
others, however electrifying above the staff, do violence to the intentions of
the Maestro.
Your use of the term "narcissism" is interesting in the light of Corelli's
remarkable physical presence (the gods were kind to Franco in may ways, weren't
they?); its juxtaposition to the word "unattractive" in your post
leads one to wonder if your problem lies not with Corelli but elsewhere.
TomKauf2
I feel that, in discussing almost any tenor, the same issues crop up--and there
is no need to name names. Some of us (and I am not really in this group) care
tremendously for style, for musicianship, for adherence to the composers
intentions. These are all vitally important--more so in some operas than in
others.
When listening to heroic tenor roles, such as Manrico, Raoul, Arnold, Jean (in
Le prophete), Robert, and many others--the firsr thing I look for is virility,
and the second is dominance--vocal power, a brilliant, ringing top--the feeling
that Manrico (for instance) is in charge, that Leonora has a valid reason to
love him, and his men to respect him. And, yes, this means that the tenor
singing the role has to have the stuff, and if he has it, I expect him to
flaunt it. If he doesn't have it, I would prefer him to sing a different
repertory. If he has to strain at high As, how much confidence do I have in his
"C"?
Now, both manrico and Raoul are problematic roles, but what else is new. They
have dramatic moments, and they have lyric moments, and I realize that not ever
tenor will be equal at both. If it's raoul, I'll give up a great Plus blanche
(never liked the aria anyway), if I can get a great love duet. If it's Manrico,
I'llgive up a world class Ai nostri monti for a great Di quella pira.
Now I fully realize that not everyone shares this view. De gustibus. But this
is why I will take a Corelli over a Domingo any day. At least in these roles.
Are there roles where I would prefer Domingo? Perhaps, but I would have to
think about it. Anc chances are that in these roles where Domingo <I>may</I>
beat out Corelli, I would easily prefer Gedda, Kraus or Carreras..
Cheers
Tom
Wotan99
Tom makes a good point..which is why i prefer Corelli in many of the classic
(earlier) Domingo roles...and for the others, yes go with another kind of
tenor, a Kraus, or Gedda
The more I re- listen to Corelli-heard him live many times etc. the better i
think he is--in the stuff people overlook with him-characterization with the
voice, color, phrasing...listen to how beautiful some of his phrasing can
be...with those who dislike him, there is always this set of negatives that
people apply like a filter over him...and sometimes they forget to listen
GregF NC
>Corelli worked hard at varying his roles
>and that's a fact.
I suppose this might be true, but I wonder why Corelli never did Un Ballo In
Maschera. I have a tape of him doing the love duet with Crespin, but I'm not
sure if he ever did anything else from this opera.
Opinions?
Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC
donpaolo
No, Ballo was not in his rep.& I believe wisely so. To me, the Riccardo
requires a more lyric voice, such as the *owner* of the role, Carlo
Bergonzi possessed. It's just not as "heroic" a role for the likes of
Corelli.
Just my feelings.
DonP.
GregF NC <gre...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980303041...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Len2Anne
In article <01bd463a$9cc8e160$a346accf@default>, "donpaolo"
<donp...@erols.com> rants:
>This self-righteous sermon in dealing with others is being delivered from
the
>same pulpit from which emanated accusations of "pathological";
<snip>
Donpaolo (did you say that was your real name? As in Donald Paolo or Donpaolo
Corelli or what? Just curious...)
Look in The Yellow Pages under 'P'. I think it's time you found a new
therapist.
Best (yeah right)
Anne Smith
donpaolo
Len2Anne <len2...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980303155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> In article <01bd463a$9cc8e160$a346accf@default>, "donpaolo"
> <donp...@erols.com> rants:
<<snip>>
> Look in The Yellow Pages under 'P'. I think it's time you found a new
> therapist.
>
> Best (yeah right)
>
> Anne Smith
>
Would you care to reccomend the one who has had such obviously outstanding
success at eliminating your problems with hostility?
Franco/Mario/Pippo/Carlo/Jussi/Paolo, et. al.
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
In article <19980303041...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
gre...@aol.com (GregF NC) wrote:
>
> >Corelli worked hard at varying his roles
> >and that's a fact.
>
> I suppose this might be true, but I wonder why Corelli never did Un Ballo In
> Maschera. I have a tape of him doing the love duet with Crespin, but I'm
not
> sure if he ever did anything else from this opera.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Greg Fitzmaurice
> Durham, NC
In the 1950's Corelli recorded Ma se m'e forza perderti from that opera. It is
available on several lower priced cd's. I agree that Ballo is perhaps too
lyric a role for Corelli, but he would have been great in it. Corelli has
noted in interviews that in his mature career he went toward more lyric roles
rather than the more heroic. Although Corelli was wonderful in Boheme, he was
more needed in operas such as Manon Lescaut and Aida.
RDargenio
<<I suppose this might be true, but I wonder why Corelli never did Un Ballo In
Maschera.>>
IMHO, this role would not have been for him. Surely, he could have done it, but
it wouldn't have been his fach.
RDargenio
<<.with those who dislike him, there is always this set of negatives that
people apply like a filter over him...and sometimes they forget to listen>>
Wotan, your point is extremely well -taken. We love our favs and forgive their
faults, while we magnify the faults of those whom we don't like. Thank you for
bringing this up. Ron
AT
AMEN
Ed Rosen
Hi-
I'm not sure that Corelli did record the Ma se ma forza perderti from
Ballo. I think he did not.
I am sure, however, that he never sang the role of Des Grieus in Manon
Lescaut. He may have been needed in that role, as the post I'm
answering says, but he never did it.
I always thought it would be a perfect role for him in the 60's. Why
he never did it is a mystery to me.
It was the favorite role of my favorite tenor, Tucker. He first sang
it in 1949, and was still singing it when he passed away in 1975.
This role, in many ways, is more difficult than Calaf. It is much
longer, and the tenor is singing at and above the passaggio every time
he opens his mouth. Even in his introduction of himself to Manon- all
of a sudden, a big, exposed high B natural. This note comes back over
and over again in this most difficult role. And there is a C in the
final act, together with the soprano.
Puccini certainly didn't spare the ink when he wrote this role. And
Corelli really would have been wonderful. Can anyone speculate as to
why he didn't do it? The Met did it quite often during his years
there.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
Legato Classics, Inc.
http://www.lyricdist.com
AT
BALLO IS A VERY DIFICULT ROLE. TRY THE SCHERZO DE FOLLIA AND YOU WILL NOTE
RIGHT THERE WHY CORELLII DID NOT SING IT, IT IS A ROLE FOR A VERY SPECIAL
VOICE ( DI'STEFANO,GIGLI ) THE DUET IS OK AND PROBABLY HE DID IT
ADEQUATELY, I HAVE NOT HEARD IT. EVEN BJOERLING NEVER SANG THE FORSE LA
SOGLIA... AND HE WAS A LIGHT LYRIC!!!
howar...@vanderbilt.edu wrote in article
<6difog$tau$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <19980303041...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> gre...@aol.com (GregF NC) wrote:
> >
> > >Corelli worked hard at varying his roles
> > >and that's a fact.
> >
> > I suppose this might be true, but I wonder why Corelli never did Un
Ballo In
AT
RIGHT ON THE MONEY, I MISSED BRGONZI IN MY REPLY
donpaolo <donp...@erols.com> wrote in article
<01bd46bc$20aac3a0$9f3caccf@default>...
> No, Ballo was not in his rep.& I believe wisely so. To me, the Riccardo
> requires a more lyric voice, such as the *owner* of the role, Carlo
> Bergonzi possessed. It's just not as "heroic" a role for the likes of
> Corelli.
>
> Just my feelings.
>
> DonP.
>
> GregF NC <gre...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <19980303041...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Wotan99
I remember reading that Corelli considered Manon Lescaut the most difficult
tenor role....maybe that's why he never did it...also Rigoletto is role i don't
believe he ever did...but earlier in his career he did a lot of unusual
stuff...War and Peace comes to mind
Wotan
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
In article <6dijg3$q...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
>
> Hi-
>
> I'm not sure that Corelli did record the Ma se ma forza perderti from
> Ballo. I think he did not.
Look for Palladio cd, The Young Corelli, His First Recitals (1956/59), vol.
II. (I believe these early recordings of Corelli are also available on another
cd.) The Ballo aria is selection 2. By the way, I hear pitch problems
(flatness) in some of Corelli's earliest recordings. And he sometimes
sharped high notes in the early career, for example at the end of
Pollione's cabaletta in a live recording of Norma.
>
> I am sure, however, that he never sang the role of Des Grieus in Manon
> Lescaut. He may have been needed in that role, as the post I'm
> answering says, but he never did it.
>
> I always thought it would be a perfect role for him in the 60's. Why
> he never did it is a mystery to me.
>
> It was the favorite role of my favorite tenor, Tucker. He first sang
> it in 1949, and was still singing it when he passed away in 1975.
>
> This role, in many ways, is more difficult than Calaf. It is much
> longer, and the tenor is singing at and above the passaggio every time
> he opens his mouth. Even in his introduction of himself to Manon- all
> of a sudden, a big, exposed high B natural. This note comes back over
> and over again in this most difficult role. And there is a C in the
> final act, together with the soprano.
>
> Puccini certainly didn't spare the ink when he wrote this role. And
> Corelli really would have been wonderful. Can anyone speculate as to
> why he didn't do it? The Met did it quite often during his years
> there.
I don't know the answer to this question. With Tucker, Domingo, and others
doing Manon Lescaut, the Met may have preferred him in other parts. Tucker,
also one of my favorite singers, would have been ridiculous in Romeo. Casting
depends on repertoire and casting patterns. You can't do an opera if major
companies aren't doing it or if other singers already have the part "sewn up."
WEven if a part if offered, you may have have other commitments. Corelli did
record the big first act aria and the second act duet with Tebaldi. Corelli
would have been ideal in this role. Howard
>
> Best,
> Ed
>
> Ed Rosen<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
> Legato Classics, Inc.
> http://www.lyricdist.com
>
>
GregF NC
>EVEN BJOERLING NEVER SANG THE FORSE LA
>SOGLIA
There is some controversy here. While the biography indicates that he didn't
sing it, there are indications that he sang it in San Francisco before he did
Ballo at the Met.
Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC
Stephen R Leopold
Franco did record the ballo aria. He did on the
Cetra label. He confessed to me,a few year's ago,that he should have
sung in Manon Lescaut. We did not go in to reason's why he did not do it
One of my favorite perfomance's of Manon Lescaut is the Met (b)
Jan.1959-Tebaldi,Tucker. Steve
Stregata
Fiorella Beckmeier wrote:
>I found the above quite interesting in view of past disagreements on
>this list. So, just for fun, I thought I'd try a little "substitution"
>which may illustrate the kind of double standard some individuals apply
>to those who disagree with them.
Heavens, my dear! Are we on an enemies list that you find it necessary to keep
a file on disagreements of the past? Resurrecting the bitter past is neither
healthy nor constructive.
Stregata
md dl
A propos of Corelli & Tucker, one of my favorite opera stories is when
Corelli spoke to Tucker of his admiration for the way he sang a phrase from
TOSCA and asked him how he did it. Tucker replied, "Franco, to really sing
that phrase correctly, you simply HAVE to be Jewish."
Ed Rosen
Hi again-
I agree that Tucker would have "looked" unromantic as Romeo, but, don't
forget, Gigli did the role, and he certainly didn't have Corelli's
looks, either.
Tucker certainly could have sung the role beautifully, IMO, and that's
what counts for me. I would have loved to have heard him in the great
Ah, leve toi aria, with those Bb's.
Corelli did sing the big Act 2 duet from Manon Lescaut with Tebaldi at
the closing of the old Met, and he was great. I was sure he would do
the role, but it never happened. A great shame.
You may not know that Corelli & Tucker had a great mutual admiration
society. Corelli almost idolized Tucker, and would always comment how
amazed he was that Tucker could sing some of Corelli's heaviest roles-
such as Forza, Aida, etc., and still sing a role such as the Duke in
Rigoletto to perfection.
I believe Corelli lacked the ultimate musicianship to be successful in
a role such as the Duke, and even Ballo, which was mentioned earlier.
He lacked the grace needed in crucial parts of these operas, and I
guess he realized it.
At the funeral parlor where Tucker was, Corelli was about 3 or 4 ahead
of me in line, and he was sobbing loudly. When he reached Sara Tucker,
he knelt down, and starting crying like a baby, and said- "Sara, we
will never hear him sing again." He was outwardly the most bereaved
and hysterical person there.
Wotan99
I don't know why he never sang Ballo, or Rigoletto, but i don't buy the
muscianship thing, in comparison to other roles that he mastered. Maybe he just
didn't like the characters, and the opportunity didn't come along?
Yes, Franco and Tucker grew to admire eachother..Tucker's bio says Corelli
admired Tucker's confidence and lack of nerves
I was at Tucker's funeral, and Franco looked very grief stricken
Commspkmn
<<I don't know why he never sang Ballo, or Rigoletto, but i don't buy the
muscianship thing, in comparison to other roles that he mastered. Maybe he just
didn't like the characters, and the opportunity didn't come along?>>
I am a great admirer of Corelli's artistry, but I don't really think a light
touch and sense of humor were his musical strong points. IMHO, these are
needed for successful interpretations of the Duke and Riccardo. But then
again, maybe that's why he didn't choose to do those roles.
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
I agree that Tucker had amazing technique and a beautiful voice. His high B
flats were extremely powerful. He had an agility and preciseness that didn't
come easily to Corelli. Tucker's weaknesses were a tendency to emotional
excess and hammy acting in live performance. He is someone who gave more
pleasure to the ear than to the eye. In Ballo, Corelli could have sung
fabulously everthing but E scherzo od e follia and a few other light, quick
sections. The voice required for the Duke of Mantua is quite different from
the kind Corelli and Del Monaco had. By the way, have you heard Corelli's
unwise attempt at Lucia at the Met? I wonder why Corelli wanted to sing the
lighter parts. Howard Hood
In article <6dla1s$m...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Fred
Fred
Ed Rosen
Hi Howard Hood & list-
I agree with you, Howard, but for me, singing was always more important
than how a singer looked on stage. Tucker was always at least
credible, though certainly no match for Corelli in looks. And in some
of his later roles- such as Canio & Samson, his acting was quite fine.
I didn't know the Kirsten-Corelli Manon Lescaut story, and found it
very interesting.
I was at Corelli's attempt at Lucia, and remember being so surprised at
how much difficulty the role seemed to be for him. He only sang 1 1/3
performances of this opera. The role just seemed out of his grasp. It
lies high in a very different way than, say, Radames. In Edgardo,
there is so much passaggio singing, that the tenor can tire easily.
Corelli was not very familiar with this role, and had problems as soon
as he made his entrance in Act 1.
Roberta Peters has told me that Corelli didn't really know the role
well, so that can account for some of his uncertainty. She also said
that he was one of the few tenors that gave her flowers personally
before the performance, which took place in early 1971.
It just goes to show- singing the greatest Calaf ever doesn't mean a
tenor can sing a role such as Edgardo- or the Duke.
That's one of the many reasons I loved Tucker so much. He could do
them all, with equal success.
Wotan99
I attended Corelli's Lucia...at the time we were all surprised that he was
doing the role (of course he looked great) at the stage entrance as fans were
crowding around after the performance, autographs, photos etc. some one he knew
asked him about Lucia and said you are a tenore robusto, and Corelli answered,
no lyrico
That may explain why he took on Lucia
Also he was said to be unhappy with a heaviness that had come into his
voice...probably thought this would help???
GRNDPADAVE
>Subject: Re: CORELLI/TUCKER
>From: lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen)
>Date: Thu, Mar 5, 1998 09:30 EST
>Message-id: <6dmcug$k...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
>
> SNIP > SNIP > SNIP
>It just goes to show- singing the greatest Calaf ever doesn't mean a
>tenor can sing a role such as Edgardo- or the Duke.
>
>That's one of the many reasons I loved Tucker so much. He could do
>them all, with equal success.
Ed, I realize that you are referring to Corelli, but I'd like your take on an
estimable tenor who recorded an "uncongenial" role.
-
I refer to Mario del Monaco and the RIGOLETTO he recorded with Hilda Gueden and
Aldo Protti (now available as a London 2-fer).
-
I, for one, enjoy this recording for providing a different persepective on the
Duke. Here he is not only commanding but dangerous. Del Monaco's voice does
not disppear in the Scene 1 ensemble (or in any ensemble for that matter).
-
I also happen to enjoy hearing wonderful interpretations of Monterone (Corena)
and Sparafucile (Siepi) not to mention a charming and modest Gilda of enormous
talent.
-
By the way, Protti - so maligned in his day - would be, in my opinion - our
leading Verdi baritone if he were singing at this level today.
== G/P dave
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
In article <6dm732$mh6$1...@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Lur...@webtv.net (Fred) wrote:
>
>
> --WebTV-Mail-1531817751-7815
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
I have read that Corelli wanted to perform Otello on stage before recording it
and at one time had a contract to record it, but it never happened. Corelli
has said that he has major regrets about not singing Manon Lescaut and Otello.
Well, you can't do everything (this doesn't apply to Superman Domingo).
>
> To Ed Rosen: I read in Dorothy Kirsten's autobiography that she tried to
> get Corelli to sing Des Grieux opposite her Manon Lescaut (Puccini),
> but that he was lazy about learning the role! He kept putting it off!
> Pity! As for Otello, he felt he would have to be the best, and figured
> he could never surpass Del Monaco! Pity again! He should have at least
> recorded it! Bjoerling planned to oneday record Otello, but never did.
> Pity! Bastianini was supposed to be the Iago in the second Del Monaco -
> Tebaldi Otello recording, but he too was too lazy to learn the role, so
> I read! Pity again! Life is full of missed opportunities! Ciao. Fred D.
>
> --WebTV-Mail-1531817751-7815
> Content-Description: signature
> Content-Disposition: INLINE
> Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
>
> <html>Always Fred!</html>
>
> --WebTV-Mail-1531817751-7815--
Claud H. Shirley III
Wotan99 wrote:
>
> I don't know why he never sang Ballo, or Rigoletto, but i don't buy the
> muscianship thing, in comparison to other roles that he mastered.
I love Franco Corelli - as a voice and as a person - but I cannot
imagine him ever, singing the "Di tu, se fedele" or the "E scherzo ed e
folia" - syllabic fleetness was not among his extraordinary gifts.
AT
that would have been a very difficult battle for mr c. delmonaco is king
otello.
hey i recognize when mr c, can not be best!!!
at
howar...@vanderbilt.edu wrote in article
<6dndbj$tl8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
AT
delmonaco's rigoleto is a very good one. so far , for me, he is the only
devilish duke, and a masculine one. love that recording.
GRNDPADAVE <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980305182...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Alexander Ross
Ed Rosen schrieb:
> Hi Howard Hood & list-
>
> I agree with you, Howard, but for me, singing was always more important
> than how a singer looked on stage. Tucker was always at least
> credible, though certainly no match for Corelli in looks. And in some
> of his later roles- such as Canio & Samson, his acting was quite fine.
> (...)
> Roberta Peters has told me that Corelli didn't really know the role
> well, so that can account for some of his uncertainty. She also said
> that he was one of the few tenors that gave her flowers personally
> before the performance, which took place in early 1971.
>
> It just goes to show- singing the greatest Calaf ever doesn't mean a
> tenor can sing a role such as Edgardo- or the Duke.
>
> That's one of the many reasons I loved Tucker so much. He could do
> them all, with equal success.
>
> Best,
> Ed
Well spoken. It took a while till I learned how good he was. I recently got
a 1971 recording with Tucker as Canio in Florence. The audience went crazy
as he was one of them. And his Éleazar really got me. Any other tenor of
his age to sing that good ?
Alexander Ross
Neil A Kurtzman
lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
>Hi again-
>Best,
>Ed
>Ed Rosen<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
>Legato Classics, Inc.
>http://www.lyricdist.com
BTW Tucker was just about the only contemporary tenor admired by Del
Monaco.
GRNDPADAVE
>Subject: Re: CORELLI/TUCKER
>From: med...@ttuhsc.edu (Neil A Kurtzman)
>Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 17:04 EST
>Message-id: <6dprtg$r...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
>
>BTW Tucker was just about the only contemporary tenor admired by Del
>Monaco.
==
Given that Bjoerling and Di Stefano were also contemporaneous with Del Monaco,
I wonder what that tells us about MDM?
==G/P Dave
Klyphil
>By the way, Protti - so maligned in his day - would be, in my opinion - our
>leading Verdi baritone if he were singing at this level today.
Protti did Rigoletto with the Met, but not at the Met, in 82 or 83, I think.
Parts of the voice had turned to unvarnished wood but there was real depth of
emotion, it was spell binding. He seemed embarassed by the entusiastic ovation
at his curtain call - he had this "you should have heard me when" expression on
his face.
Buoso Donati, Jr.
Klyphil
>At the funeral parlor where Tucker was, Corelli was about 3 or 4 ahead
>>of me in line, and he was sobbing loudly. When he reached Sara Tucker,
>>he knelt down, and starting crying like a baby, and said- "Sara, we
>>will never hear him sing again." He was outwardly the most bereaved
>>and hysterical person there.
>
>
>>Best,
>>Ed
But Ed, make allowances for the fact that that is how many of us Italians
behave at funerals. Corelli was from south of Rome, no?
Buoso Donati, Jr.
Wotan99
I believe Corelli was truly grief stricken. I was at Tucker's funeral...Corelli
did seem deeply moved
Corelli, by the way, came from Ancona, north of Rome ..the marches...Le voce
belli sono nati in questa terra
Stephen R Leopold
Corelli is from Ancona,north of Roma.
David
I admit that Protti had a rather dry voice and a wooly production above
the staff, but his musicianship was absolutely sound and he sang very
expressively. I have come to appreciate his recorded performances of
Rigoletto and Germont pere greatly, even if his instrument per se was
never exactly in the same league as, say, Tibbett's, Warren's,
Bastianni's, or the young MacNeil's.
-david gable
David
Any opinion on Corelli's performance of the role of Heinrich (or should
I say Enrico?) in Spontini's Agnes von Hohenstaufen (or should I say
Agnese di Hohenstaufen?)?
-david gable
Wotan99
The fact that there are so many postings on Corelli says something....we can't
get his voice out of our minds? No other tneor seems to provoke as much
interest...
GregF NC
>The fact that there are so many postings on Corelli says >something....we
can't get his voice out of our minds? No other >tneor seems to provoke as much
interest...
Yes it does mean something - it means that there is a lot of disagreement as to
his qualities. Consider that the greatest tenor and soprano - at least
according to this newsgroup - are Caruso and Ponselle - and look at how many
postings there are on them.
Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC
GRNDPADAVE
>Subject: Re: CORELLI
>From: gre...@aol.com (GregF NC)
>Date: Mon, Mar 9, 1998 09:44 EST
>Message-id: <19980309144...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Are you referring to Gabor or Franco? (For purposes of argument, I will assume
the latter).
-
You make an interesting point re Caruso and Ponselle. As a matter of fact I
wonder how many who assert that Enrico Caruso was the "Tenor of the Century"
really believe that or are merely passing off as their own a received opinion.
-
At the risk of being "flamed" I note that partisans of Corelli sometimes
exhibit a belligerant attitude. To prefer another tenor as Manrico or, worse
yet, as Calaf, may provoke (unfriendly) invitations to visit an ear
specialist.
-
So it seems one must join an "amen" chorus of Corelli worshippers to avoid
being afflicted with disdain. This orthodoxy requires forswearing all other
tenors (even to denying that they ever -- even on their best day -- managed to
attain the nirvana of the high C or beyond (written or otherwise).
-
Corelli's talents are undeniable and they exceeded by a fair degree his
considerable qualities as a musician. Therein lies, IMHO, the controversy.
To paraphrase a great British comedy: "He Scoops to Conquer". (Forgive me, my
dear Franco-philes, I simply lost control.)
==G/P Dave
Wotan99
Whatever...but you prove the point....it does seem out of proportion, No?
Corelliste may be belligerent because there always seem to be haters
Personally the best ones (tenores) all have their proponents,
Caruso may have been the Italian tenor of the century, but even he wasn't
perfect
I think the voice of the century was
Melchior!!
GRNDPADAVE
>Subject: Re: CORELLI
>From: wot...@aol.com (Wotan99)
>Date: Mon, Mar 9, 1998 12:32 EST
>Message-id: <19980309173...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Tenor just may be too broad a category. One may as well select the greatest
Singer.
-
Melchior is virually unrivalled as the great Wagnerian tenor. But where does
that leave Tito Schipa or Georges Thill or Jussi Bjoerling and, yes, Franco
Corelli. These are all great tenors but no one would compare them to Melchior
as impersonators of Tristan or Siegfried.
-
One would almost have to match tenors to categories or composers. And ever
there we have problems. Cesare Valletti was a terrific Don Ottavio and
Almaviva (Lindoro) but Fritz Wunderlich is the greatest Tamino I have heard and
Nicolai Gedda or Luciano Pavarotti have great claims on heroic Rossini
(Arnold).
-
Could the cherubic Melchior have matched Corelli as Dick Johnson? Probably
not, but it would have been worth all the money to see him try. Melchior in
chaps, "Whisky per tutti!!"
Love it !!
==G/P Dave
Dale Erwin
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
>
> Are you referring to Gabor or Franco? (For purposes of argument, I will assume
I thought it was Arcangelo
> the latter).
> -
> You make an interesting point re Caruso and Ponselle. As a matter of fact I
> wonder how many who assert that Enrico Caruso was the "Tenor of the Century"
> really believe that or are merely passing off as their own a received opinion.
> -
> At the risk of being "flamed" I note that partisans of Corelli sometimes
> exhibit a belligerant attitude. To prefer another tenor as Manrico or, worse
> yet, as Calaf, may provoke (unfriendly) invitations to visit an ear
> specialist.
> -
> So it seems one must join an "amen" chorus of Corelli worshippers to avoid
> being afflicted with disdain. This orthodoxy requires forswearing all other
> tenors (even to denying that they ever -- even on their best day -- managed to
> attain the nirvana of the high C or beyond (written or otherwise).
> -
> Corelli's talents are undeniable and they exceeded by a fair degree his
> considerable qualities as a musician. Therein lies, IMHO, the controversy.
> To paraphrase a great British comedy: "He Scoops to Conquer". (Forgive me, my
> dear Franco-philes, I simply lost control.)
>
> ==G/P Dave
Valid points GP. As a Corelli fan, I must say that I would
have much preferred to hear the man sing with the same great
voice but without all the scoops--some of those scoops really
lent some awful sound to some otherwide magnificent singing.
However, I must say that taking all aspects into consideration,
his singing was possibly the most exciting, thrilling and
beautiful I have ever heard--with the possible exception of
Mario del Monaco. IMNSHO
--
Dale Erwin
Klyphil
> Are you referring to Gabor or Franco?
Gabor was Carelli, no?
Buoso Donati, Jr.
AT
Scoops, just think about the majesty of an interstellar transborder taking
off.
Who cares about how you get there, it is being there that matters.
Dale Erwin <der...@ibm.net> wrote in article <35049B...@ibm.net>...
howar...@vanderbilt.edu
Most of Corelli's "scoops" reflected a singing technique intended to keep the
voice open on high notes by tying the high note to the prior note. This is a
legato technique which can be contrasted with breaking the line between notes
and hopping from a lower note to a higher one. Caruso was another exponent of
this technique. He carried it so far as to change the text so that he could
slide up to the high note on a vowel without having to start the high note on
a consonant. As a tenor myself, I know that this approach to singing high
notes really works. Of course, some may object on the basis of personal
preference or taste.
In article <6e2ffq$s...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Dale Erwin
Klyphil wrote:
>
> > Are you referring to Gabor or Franco?
>
> Buoso Donati, Jr.
You mean Eva or Zsa Zsa ??
--
Dale Erwin
Claud H. Shirley III
Neil A Kurtzman wrote:
And righteously so.
Mike Richter
Since only Tucker (of those named) was singing conssitently in del
Monaco's rep, he would not have made the comparison. He would have been
as likely to comment on Valletti or (Roberta) Peters in that regard.
Mike
--
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Neil A Kurtzman
RDargenio
<<BTW Tucker was just about the only contemporary tenor admired by Del
>>Monaco.
>==
>Given that Bjoerling and Di Stefano were also contemporaneous with Del Monaco,
>I wonder what that tells us about MDM?
>==G/P Dave
that he had an ego as large as his voice
>>
How easy it is to convict someone in absentia. I know that the above is a load
of crap since MDM in a tv interview expressed the highest admiration for
DiStefano and complimented Corelli.
Huge ego? That's a relative term I guess.
donpaolo
BNefore you all start to jump on the magnificent Mario, the allegation
about his admiring only a single contemporary tenor ib pure bullshit. I
happen to have an interview tape during which he praises Bjoerling &
amother one wherein he praises Corelli & DiStefano.
As a matter of fact, Corelli was onr of the pall bearers at mario's
funeral. Thjere was apparently great mutual admiration between them, so
don't start false rumors based upon false impressions.
Mr. Del Monaco, despite being associated with roles such Otello & Canio,
was a genuine gentleman.
DonPaolo
Neil A Kurtzman <med...@ttuhsc.edu> wrote in article
<6efc71$e...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
> grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
>
> >>Subject: Re: CORELLI/TUCKER
> >>From: med...@ttuhsc.edu (Neil A Kurtzman)
> >>Date: Fri, Mar 6, 1998 17:04 EST
> >>Message-id: <6dprtg$r...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
>
> >>
Ed Rosen
Hi-
When Richard Tucker died in January of 1975, the family received many
hundreds, if not thousands, of letters and calls.
The most eloquent, moving, letter came from Mario Del Monaco. I know.
I read it.
It was hand written in Italian, and about 8 pages long.
In it Del Monaco expressed his great sadness at Tucker's unexpected
passing, and when on for pages to say how much and why he admired
Tucker as a tenor.
He mentioned how incredible it was that Tucker, at age 62, could still
sing the high lyric roles, such as the Duke in Rigoletto, and Edgardo
in Lucia, while doing all the spinto and dramatic roles, like Radames
in Aida, Alvaro in Forza, Samson, etc.
He also wrote about what a wonderful colleague Tucker had been.
Apparently the two had always gotten along well. Del Monaco recalled
how Tucker had always stayed in touch with him and his family when Del
Monaco had been in a serious automobile accident in the early 60's, and
how much his thoughtfulness had always meant to Del Monaco.
This letter brought tears to the eyes of all who read it. Sara Tucker
had an English translation typed out so all who wanted to could read
it.
Actually, Del Monaco's decade at the Met, the 50's, was a time when the
two tenors didn't share that many roles. Tucker didn't sing his first
Radames until 1965, his first Manrico until 1964, his first Canio until
1970, and he never attempted Otello.
The roles they both sang during that decade, if memory serves, were Don
Jose, Don Alvaro, Enzo Grimaldo, Des Grieux in Manon Lescaut, and, I
think, Turridu. But- of these roles, the only ones that Del Monaco did
often were Jose, and, to a lesser extent, Enzo & Alvaro. Even these
roles, as I recall, were only done a limited amount of time by Del
Monaco.
I just wanted to share this story with you, since I thought it very
moving and interesting.
I'm sure Del Monaco admired Corelli, and I know they became friends.
Corelli was a pallbearer at Del Monaco's funeral in 1981.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<lyr...@ix.netcom.com>
Legato Classics, Inc.
http://www.lyricdist.com
I
RDargenio
<<The roles they both sang during that decade, if memory serves, were Don
Jose, Don Alvaro, Enzo Grimaldo, Des Grieux in Manon Lescaut, and, I
think, Turridu. But- of these roles, the only ones that Del Monaco did
often were Jose, and, to a lesser extent, Enzo & Alvaro. Even these
roles, as I recall, were only done a limited amount of time by Del
Monaco.>>
Ed, thank you for a glimpse into the personalities of these two colleagues.
Many times rivalries get overblown and we get the wrong impression of an
artist. I might add that Chenier was a role shared by Tucker and del Monaco and
that, through what I've read in old Opera News issues, they respectfully
disagreed with each other on the portrayal of the character. I also read in
MDM's autobiography that he appreciated the cooperation of all the Met singers
when he first began there, most especially Richard Tucker.
Again, thank you for sharing these most interesting and moving stories. Ron
RDargenio
Don Paolo writes: <<As a matter of fact, Corelli was onr of the pall bearers at
mario's
funeral. Thjere was apparently great mutual admiration between them, so
don't start false rumors based upon false impressions.>
DP, I didn't know this and find it most interesting! Maybe there was a great
rivalry between them, but perhaps the fans once again blew it totally out of
proportion.
Dale Erwin
Maybe there was a rivalry. But a rivalry does not preclude
common admiration and respect between/among the rivals.
Baseball players are often mortal enemies on the playing
field and then go out partying together after the game.
Besides, most rivalries among celebrities are more often
based on perception and press than on fact.
--
Dale Erwin
RDargenio
Dale Erwin wrote: <<Maybe there was a rivalry. But a rivalry does not preclude
common admiration and respect between/among the rivals.
Baseball players are often mortal enemies on the playing
field and then go out partying together after the game.
Besides, most rivalries among celebrities are more often
based on perception and press than on fact.>>
Well said. These, after all, were and are professionals who understand what it
takes to reach the top. The rest of this stuff is great for selling magazines.
--
Fred
Jack Johnson
In the new audio bioagraphy of Callas, there is an amusing interview excerpt
in which Callas expresses the same idea, except she went further to suggest
that, given the breadth of her repertoire, she has never had a rival.
Fred wrote in message <6ejdjs$evq$1...@newsd-131.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
According to the recent Bjoerling bio: Jussi (by his widow) Del Monaco
was once asked what he thought of his rivals. He replied, " What rivals?
I have no rivals . . . .