--
I agree whole heartedly. I loved listening to Pinza. I was privileged
to see him do South Pacific from the front row of the Shubert theater in
BOston the night before the show left for New York. I was in heaven. I
was always at home to listen on a Saturday when he was scheduled to
sing.
I agree about Sam Ramey but am a bit sceptical about James Morris. He
may be doing some roles that he really shouldn't. Meanwhile, I have
wondered why Raey is not seen at the MEt more.
Charles S. Lipson
The people never give up their liberties
but under some delusion.
Edmund Burke
My choices are many, including
Pinza
Reizen
Hesch
Mardones
Hines
To pick one from each of Italy, Russia, Germany, Spain and the U.S. And I
would not argue against many other selections, some of whom are little known.
There were fewer greats of the profondo flavor; the most recent was Frick, who
passed away last year.
As for your second question: No, there are no competitors for that list today.
Ramey at his best is close, Ghiaurov was of the first rank 20-30 years ago,
and some others would be in the second rank with such as Tozzi and Michalski
(to pick on just a couple more Americans). Flagello and Diaz somehow never
made it despite promising starts. The only truly promising basso cantante I
have heard on recent recording is d'Arcangelo (sp?), but there isn't enough on
the Tancredi LD to be sure. In any event, one recording does not establish a
singer.
Mike
Bill Gray
>I would be very interested in peoples favorite basses,especially basso
>cantante,
>are the stars of today as good as the greats often of twenty plus years
ago?
My choice of Bass singers would be:-
Boris Christoff - partic. the Slavic roles like Boris
Robert Lloyd - in Rossini and Verdi, Boris and Khovanschina
Gwynne Howell - Verdi and as King Mark in Tristan, Pogner in Meistersinger
other Wagner roles i would hand to Hotter
Peter
Peter Hebdon
PRH...@aol.com
UK Librarian
Kim Borg (1919) made a great international career in the 50's and 60's (Met debut 1959).
he sudied chemistry and graduated as a chemical engineer, but then became an opera singer.
He sang on 6 continents in more than 30 opera houses and also sung in 16 (SIXTEEN) languages. He
sang Boris Godunov in 5 languages.
Recorded for Deutsche Grammpphon. They have released ome of his greatest arias on a double CD
DG 445 427-2.
Borg had a beautiful bass, not very deep, but rather a bass barytone. He also sang Scarpia. His
role portraits were excellent.
The second big (201 cm) Finnish bass was Martti Talvela, who diedd in 19889 only 54 years old. He
was probably the greatest Boris of his time (late 70's and 80's). Listen to his "O Isis und
Osiris" on the DECCA recording of magic Flute under Solti. What a legato. He had a ceep bass and
probably one of the biggest bass voices of this century.
The Finnish bass wonder continues. Recently Martti Salminen, Jaakko Ryhanen and Johann Tilli had a
concert in Helsinki called Mega Basses (like the 3 tenors). It was great!
Lars
P.S. I think Alexander Kipnis was a marvellous bass. Probably one of the greatest this century.
I haven't been following this thread completely; and I agree with Van
Dam being a great singer, but he's a bass-baritone, not a bass. In
fact, the weakest part of his voice is the low notes. He loses a
considerable amount of power in his lower regions (Now, don't anybody
take this the wrong way:->)
Another personal favorite
>who is also nearing the end of his career is Kurt Moll. For my taste
>(which I confess is not universal) the best Sarastro on disc and some
>really nice work in a lot of the other German rep. Not to mention a
low
>range of which I have not heard the like.
>
My personal favorite of those who are singing now is Robert Lloyd. He
has a beautiful voice throughout his range and is fully committed. His
Guernamanz is the best I have every heard or seen and his video of
Boris is overwhelming. He gives fully detailed, well-thought-out
interpretations of everything I have ever heard him do.
Jose van Dam is a baritone and, what's more, the best around.
I would nominate Alexader Kipnis as the greatest bass singer of this century. Other great basses to
be heard on record include: Paul Knuepfer, Feodor Chaliapin and Emanuel List.
--
- Derrick Everett
- Web site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Trevrizent/homepage.htm
--
>- Derrick Everett
The list has to be larger than that. In addition to the earlier-mentioned
Pinza, and Kipnis, I would want to include, at the highest rank, at least
the following (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some too):
Pol Plancon
Marcel Journet
Nazareno de Angeles
Boris Christoff
Henry Fogel
"I would be very interested in peoples favorite basses,especially basso
cantante,
are the stars of today as good as the greats often of twenty plus years
ago?"
I too have a preference for great bass voices. Among my favorites from the
past, I count Chaliapin, Pinza, Pasero, Borg, Frick, Kipnis, Mikhailov, W.
Strienz, Talvela, Clabassi, Arie - not necessarily in that order or in
everything they did.
My favorite bass, and probably singer of any kind is Mark Reizen.
Victor
VH...@Interlink.net
Ed
You are right about Siepi. He deserves to be mentioned among the most
outstanding. There are so many good basses and so few good tenors. Does
anyone have an idea why this should be? Darci
In article <4j4tai$s...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
It is maybe a question of supply. When I have talked to older choristers, they
have told me that there were many more tenors when they were young - the
average male voice seems to have becomes lower over the years. They told me of
choirs where tenors and basses about 1:1 in numbers, what I see today is
usually 2-3:1 basso majority (except when the choir is limited in the numbers
of each voice).
FWIIW, the analogue seems to hold for the women愀 voices too. The ratio
altos/sopranos seems to have increased over the years according to what older
choristers have told me. An aside: A Finnish chorister told me that there was
a increasing number of female *tenors* in Finnish choirs, they sometimes sing
the tenor parts in male quartets since there are so very few male tenors
there. OTOH, Finnish basses are quite abundant and they are real basses, not
bass-baritones.
So, if this is a general trend (is it so in your area? come with some input),
a better supply of basso voices will in all likelyhood lead to that more
really good basses will appear.
Considering the praise for Ezio Pinza in this thread: is it just me, or is
there someone else who doesn愒 particulary like his singing? Judging from what
little I have heard of him (2 CD愀), his voice does not, IMHO, qualify as the
best of the century or even among the top ten. I have compared all the arias
sung by him to the same arias sung by others, and in no case has Pinza emerged
the winner. This may partly be due to that Pinza is handicapped by the
recording technique of the 30ies, but I have heard much better recordings from
the same time by other singers. To me, much of his singing is lacking in
brilliance and a clear note is more difficult to hear than in other basses.
Have a nice time!
Peter Gustafsson
In fact I've already informed everybody that Kipnis was the greatest bass
of the century. <grin>
Diane
In article <4j2039$t...@swordfish.fastnet.co.uk>, ba...@fastnet.co.uk wrote:
>I would be very interested in peoples favorite basses,especially basso
cantante,
>are the stars of today as good as the greats often of twenty plus years ago?
Some of my personal favorites (in no particular order):
Boris Christoff
Nikolai Ghiaurov
Feodor Chaliapin
Matti Salminen
Most overrated, IMHO:
Ezio Pinza (Not that he is the *worst*, but the not worthy of all the praise)
As a Norwegian, I want to mention Ivar Andresen, who was probably the
foremost Wagner bass of the 1930ies. He also sang on Metropolitan. He
were at odds with the Nazi regime, and returned home to Norway in 1937
and died at 44 shortly before the war broke out.
Preiser has issued a CD of Mozart (Sarastro) and Wagner excerpts.
HCH
> Being of Finnish origin I have to mention two Finnish basses.
> =
> Kim Borg (1919) made a great international career in the 50's and 60's (M=
et debut 1959).
> he sudied chemistry and graduated as a chemical engineer, but then became=
an opera singer.
> He sang on 6 continents in more than 30 opera houses and also sung in 16 =
(SIXTEEN) languages. He
> sang Boris Godunov in 5 languages.
> =
> Recorded for Deutsche Grammpphon. They have released ome of his greatest =
arias on a double CD
> DG 445 427-2.
> =
> Borg had a beautiful bass, not very deep, but rather a bass barytone. He =
also sang Scarpia. His
> role portraits were excellent.
> =
> The second big (201 cm) Finnish bass was Martti Talvela, who diedd in 198=
89 only 54 years old. He
> was probably the greatest Boris of his time (late 70's and 80's). Listen =
to his "O Isis und
> Osiris" on the DECCA recording of magic Flute under Solti. What a legato.=
He had a ceep bass and
> probably one of the biggest bass voices of this century.
> =
> The Finnish bass wonder continues. Recently Martti Salminen, Jaakko Ryhan=
en and Johann Tilli had a
> concert in Helsinki called Mega Basses (like the 3 tenors). It was great!=
> =
> Lars
> =
> P.S. I think Alexander Kipnis was a marvellous bass. Probably one of the =
greatest this century.
Kim Borg had a very versatile voice with a wide range. He did quite a =
lot baritone parts, one of his most famous characters was count Almaviva =
in Mozarts Figaro; a role he also sang at the Met.
The Finnish label Finlandia has published almost everything he recorded =
on three CD's. He is considered to have made the best recording to date =
of Moussorgskys "Songs and Dances of Death". He himself publicly =
declared that he did not do his best at recordings, but that he did hold =
back a little, so that his audiences would not, when they compared his =
live performances with the recordings, consider him to be on the =
decline.
HCH
This does suggest that you have not heard Gottlob Fricks Osmin !
HCH
>The only reason his name seems strange here is that we're mixing up the
>basses and bass-baritones. But the comparison with Hotter is valid.
>Morris is a far better Wotan. Hotter sings like he has a mouth full of
>cotton balls.
Well, of course. Hotter is 87 years old! :-)
Bill
--
William Kasimer (wk...@netcom.com)
>I would nominate Alexader Kipnis as the greatest bass singer of this century. Other great basses to
>be heard on record include: Paul Knuepfer, Feodor Chaliapin and Emanuel List.
>
What a wonderful list of four all-time greats. I respect Morris
as a thorough professional but to see him mentioned in the same
thread as these giants and Hotter makes me wince. I trust it
would make Morris wince as well.
BTW, an interesting tidbit: List and Kipnis sang at the Met
during the same period and List made a great comic-opera show of
hating his supposed rival.
Regards, -Rick
--
red...@az.com
/ // /// ///// /////// /////////// ///////////// / // ///
The only reason his name seems strange here is that we're mixing up the
basses and bass-baritones. But the comparison with Hotter is valid.
Morris is a far better Wotan. Hotter sings like he has a mouth full of
cotton balls.
W.
> FWIIW, the analogue seems to hold for the women=B4s voices too. The ratio=
> altos/sopranos seems to have increased over the years according to what o=
lder
> choristers have told me. An aside: A Finnish chorister told me that there=
was
> a increasing number of female *tenors* in Finnish choirs, they sometimes =
sing
> the tenor parts in male quartets since there are so very few male tenors
> there. OTOH, Finnish basses are quite abundant and they are real basses, =
not
> bass-baritones.
> =
> So, if this is a general trend (is it so in your area? come with some inp=
ut),
> a better supply of basso voices will in all likelyhood lead to that more
> really good basses will appear.
> =
> Considering the praise for Ezio Pinza in this thread: is it just me, or i=
s
> there someone else who doesn=B4t particulary like his singing? Judging fr=
om what
> little I have heard of him (2 CD=B4s), his voice does not, IMHO, qualify =
as the
> best of the century or even among the top ten. I have compared all the ar=
ias
> sung by him to the same arias sung by others, and in no case has Pinza em=
erged
> the winner. This may partly be due to that Pinza is handicapped by the
> recording technique of the 30ies, but I have heard much better recordings=
from
> the same time by other singers. To me, much of his singing is lacking in
> brilliance and a clear note is more difficult to hear than in other basse=
s.
> =
> Have a nice time!
> =
> Peter Gustafsson
If your choir is like others, the tenors are the small guys, and the big =
ones are basses.
I once heard Kim Borg say that as the rising standard of living with =
better nutrition etc. makes the average human being taller, this also =
means that the average vocal chords get longer. This longer vibrating =
string produces a deeper note. Thus according to the law of averages the =
distribution alters, and you get an increasing amount of the deeper =
voices.
I don't know if I like the idea of female tenors; it may however make it =
even more pleasant to be a bass !
Regards
HCH
pnk
Pol Plancon-greatest of his age, fabulous fioritura as well, equalled in
that respect only in our time by
Ezio Flagello-curiously underrated, but as good a basso cantante as you
will hear in any era.
Pinza-undoubtedly a gorgeous singer, the ruination of a whole generation
that succeeded him and tried to imitate the inimitable.
Siepi-I second one of the posts here, a wonderful operatic artist in every
respect.
Kipnis-assuredly supreme in the Russian/Wagnerian fach, also a wonderful
recitalist.
Gottlob Frick-I agree, paradigm of a "black" bass.
Ludwig Weber-ditto
Hans Hotter-included here, because his versatility [really a
bass-baritone, heldenbariton etc.] enabled him to be the Grand Inquisitor
of his time, in addition to his myriad triumphs.
Jose Van Dam-likewise, a versatility like Hotter's, if not quite in that
protean league.
Michael Langdon-If you don't know this wonderful English bass, get
educated. He was the Baron Ochs and Osmin of his time.
Martti Talvela-a giant in every respect, died too young, but his Boris at
the Met was a towering achievement.
Kim Borg-sorry, my Finnish friend, but this nice gentleman was a good
musician, unimportant singer. Your country has produced several better
than he.
Zoltan Kelemen-who? That's the problem with record producers.If you don't
make a batch of aria albums, no one knows you.
\
I can give you others, but that's a head start.
[and by the way, Jerome Hines deserves a mention, particularly in the
Wagnerian fach] ...
dft
> As a Norwegian, I want to mention Ivar Andresen, who was probably the
> foremost Wagner bass of the 1930ies. He also sang on Metropolitan. He
> were at odds with the Nazi regime, and returned home to Norway in 1937
> and died at 44 shortly before the war broke out.
I like Andrésen's recordings very much but am afraid that his problems
lied elsewhere. He may have been against the nazis but what did him in was a drinking
problem.
He started more and more to default on engagements and embark on drinking
binges so that, by the time the nazis reached power, he was already a wash-out. He
even abandoned mid-way the first complete recording of Tannhäuser and disappeared
for weeks.
A pity, because the voice was magnificent...
Eduardo Gabarra
Lennart lindgren
Certainly Hotter sounds a bit mush-mouthed on the Solti _Ring_, but to
quote netizen Jon Alan Conrad (in the Met Guide to Recorded Opera), "No other
Wotan narrates more fascinatingly, rages more humanly, or mourns more
heartbreakingly" (Sorry if I mangled your quote, Jon). As fine a voice as
James Morris has (and he certainly is one of the great Wotans, both in voice
and interpretation) Hotter moves me more.
--
Dale Abersold-...@cc.usu.edu
Utah State University, Department of History
Operatic Civilian
http://cc.usu.edu/~slkby/index.html
(a) Matti Salminen? To me, he seems seems to have the most profound
voice of all: one that can truly plumb the depths. Has anyone measured
the reach of these super basses, and how do they compare? And what a
rich tone he has! Altogether a monumental voice. If giants hadn't been
thought of, and Salminen had lived 140 years ago, Wagner would have
called both Fasolt and Fafnir Matti and written the Ring round him.
(b) Kurt Moll? Another one who can hit the depths. The man has a voice
like warm honey seeping into massive, subterranean abysses. But it can
convey anguish: I treasure his Schubert, and his Winterreise is a joy.
I'd especially value your comparative judgment based on a wide
experience of powerful basses, because while I truly love those two, I
don't know how they would measure against all the other great basses.
--
Alan Bird Inventor & Sole Consumer of After-8 Mince
> (a) Matti Salminen? To me, he seems seems to have the most profound
> voice of all: one that can truly plumb the depths. Has anyone measured
> the reach of these super basses, and how do they compare? And what a
> rich tone he has! Altogether a monumental voice. If giants hadn't been
> thought of, and Salminen had lived 140 years ago, Wagner would have
> called both Fasolt and Fafnir Matti and written the Ring round him.
Salminen is fine, indeed, and has the range to be a basso profondo. However,
his tone is not as black as Frick's was and he lacks the ultimate low notes.
For example, Eduard Wollitz' Seneca (in Poppea) more freely reaches the depths
that Salminen approaches. The lowest note I have heard sung on recording is
the low C; de Reszke reaches it on one of the Mapelson cylinders (live from
the Met - about 1902) and one of the soloists on Soviet Army Chorus and Band
manages it. There's also a curious low D from Dezso Ernster in a generally
painful performance of the Creation on Vox. I haven't checked the pitches
Mardones hits in "Asleep in the Deep" and "Rocked in the Cradle of the Deep",
but they're in the same neighborhood.
> (b) Kurt Moll? Another one who can hit the depths. The man has a voice
> like warm honey seeping into massive, subterranean abysses. But it can
> convey anguish: I treasure his Schubert, and his Winterreise is a joy.
>
For me, Moll frequently has another property essential to a successful
operatic basso: presence. A Sarastro who has all the notes but does not
command the stage will be a disappointment. Of those I heard, Ghiaurov, Hines
and Treigle had that presence; Tozzi and Plishka did/do not.
Interestingly, Ghiaurov in his prime had not only the largest bass voice I
ever heard, but the largest voice of any man I heard on stage. In
"Mefistofele", his "Ave, Signor" blew away the heavenly hosts without seeming
to discommode him in the least.
Mike
I wonder if perhaps much of your problem with Pinza is to to the
recording technique used at that time. I have yet to find a decent clear
recording of Chaliapin. Everyone was so impressed with him during his
lifetime and even now people sing his praises. I find his voice a little
strange and distant and I am certain that it is in the recording.
Darci
>I would be very interested in peoples favorite basses,especially basso cantante,
>are the stars of today as good as the greats often of twenty plus years ago?
One of the greatest musical joys I experience is singing with a large
amateur chorus, Masterworks Chorale, of San Mateo, CA. This is a group of
150+ auditioned singers who dedicate themselves to the performance of the
major choral repertoire of the past 300 years. Our soloists are usually
drawn from the ranks of the San Francisco Opera, and each season we engage
a number of Merola participants and Adler Fellows -- young singers who are
usually just launching their professional opera careers.
Our most recent concert (March 2-3) consisted of a performance of Handel's
_Judas Maccabaeus_. Our bass soloist was a *very* young (24-yr-old) native
of Toronto, Ontario: John Haley-Relyea. Remember that name; this young
man has the makings of a MAJOR talent. He's a real bass -- definitely NOT
a bass-baritone, and he's already got tremendous range, flexibility, and
presence (and a low Eb that raised goosebumps in most of the chorus!). His
reading of the character of Simon was right on target. Even though _Judas_
isn't opera, it *is* dramatic and requires similar interpretive ability.
As an aside -- the last time Masterworks performed _Judas_ (1984), the
soprano soloist was another talented young Merola participant: Ruth Ann
Swenson.
Cheers! Lana
>The only reason his name seems strange here is that we're mixing up the
>basses and bass-baritones. But the comparison with Hotter is valid.
>Morris is a far better Wotan. Hotter sings like he has a mouth full of
>cotton balls.
If we're talking about Wotans, we must mention the greatest of pre-war
Wotans, Friedrich Schorr.
-- Lisa
Tritter, Dan as my mmmy bestwoed upon me a few seasons ago.
and I for one shall be on the lookout for Michael >Langdon.
You'll be glad you did.
So as your opinions seem learned, balanced and judicious,
Jeez. I wish everyone was as discerning as you.
what >are your verdicts on:
>
Verdicts? Assessments, more likely.
>(a) Matti Salminen?
Terrific artist, probably the best of his kind in this era.
>(b) Kurt Moll?
Has been a very good one, perhaps a cut beneath the Finnish bass above. I
think it's late in the day for Moll, after a long career.
dft