"Der Rosenkavalier" on Building a Library
Matthew Good
on BBC Radio 3? For those who did not hear it, the subject was Strauss's
"Der Rosenkavalier" and the chosen recording was that by Sir Georg Solti
with Regine Crespin, Yvonne Minton and Helen Donath. I have it and I must
say am generally happy with it. It's main appeal for me is Crespin's
Marchallin.
However, I would not be without the Bernstein recording either, and largely
for the reasons mentioned by the reviewer on the radio this morning - Lucia
Popp's Sophie. I am very happy that he played that glorious phrase of
Sophie's in Act II when she contemplates the rose - you all know the bit I
mean. I have never heard anyone sing it like that, and it is worth forking
out the money just for that phrase alone.
Matthew
Malcolm Ogilvie
@voltaire.dircon.co.uk> writes
Gramophone and the Penguin Guide prefer it, I see.
--
Malcolm
TColl65159
I think it`s ravishing-even if, as he said, Jones and Ludwig may be a little
too Wagnerian ! Popp is splendid and it`s such fun to have Jones in a `comic`
role. Ludwig too is sumptuous. I was also grateful he didn`t choose Schwarzkopf
etc.vastly over-rated and mannered-but her early recordings out on Testament
they played beforehand were interesting. What happened to a video review of
this oerpa? They used to include some videos in the programmes. My favourite
would be Jones,Fassbaender, Popp-but am about to view Lott,Von Otter etc. The
Kiri from covent Garden is very moving though-with her `furtiva lagrima` !!
Trev(London)
NBPalmer1
Trev - you can see a rear view of my wife and me in the audience at the
beginning of this video from the Wiener Staatsoper. It was the absolute most
difficult to acquire pair of tickets in the whole of my opera life - and I
include Callas performances as well!
Cheers NICK/London
Matthew Good
>>
>I'm a fan of the first Karajan, with Schwartzkopf and Ludwig. Both The
>Gramophone and the Penguin Guide prefer it, I see.
>--
>Malcolm
One reason he did not select this recording is because it has cuts, and he
felt he had to recomend a complete version.
Matthew
Matthew Good
TColl65159 wrote in message <19990417105032...@ng112.aol.com>...
>I was please he chose Solti`s-but sad he dispensed with bernstein`s so
quickly.
>I think it`s ravishing-even if, as he said, Jones and Ludwig may be a
little
>too Wagnerian ! Popp is splendid and it`s such fun to have Jones in a
`comic`
>role. Ludwig too is sumptuous. I was also grateful he didn`t choose
Schwarzkopf
>etc.vastly over-rated and mannered-but her early recordings out on
Testament
>they played beforehand were interesting. What happened to a video review of
>this oerpa? They used to include some videos in the programmes. My
favourite
The
>Kiri from covent Garden is very moving though-with her `furtiva lagrima` !!
>Trev(London)
Yes, the Bernstein IS ravishing, ad I agree that it is fun to hear Dame
Gwyneth doing comedy. She is a great personality, and does have a good sense
of humour. Perhaps now that she is at the twilight of her career she should
have a goo at some more - any suggestions?
I have both the Kleiber videos and both are excellent in their own ways.
Matthew
Malcolm Ogilvie
@voltaire.dircon.co.uk> writes
>
>>>
--
Malcolm
MD
> The subject was Strauss's
> "Der Rosenkavalier" and the chosen recording was that by Sir Georg Solti
> with Regine Crespin.
>
> However, I would not be without the Bernstein recording either, and largely
> for the reasons mentioned by the reviewer on the radio this morning - Lucia
> Popp's Sophie. I am very happy that he played that glorious phrase of
> Sophie's in Act II when she contemplates the rose - you all know the bit I
> mean. I have never heard anyone sing it like that, and it is worth forking
> out the money just for that phrase alone.
>
Isn't it one of life's annoyances that the perfect recording doesn't exist? If
we could graft Crespin's Marshallin and Sena Jurinac's Oktavian into the
Bernstein ROSENKAVALIER, it would be the greatest opera recording of all time.
As it is, to hear Sophie sung by the utterly magnificent Lucia Popp, we have to
listen to Gwyneth Jones, never a steady singer on her best days, singing over a
severe head cold, with a wobble that you can put your fist through, totally
ruining the recording. Ludwig is quite wonderful, but perhaps not one of the
top 5 Marshallin interpreters.
The one opera recording I'd MOST like to perform surgery on is the Berlioz LES
TROYENS. If you could insert virtually any other dramatic soprano on the planet
in place of the horrifically awful Berit Lindholm, that recording would be well
nigh perfect. Imagine what Eileen Farrell would have made of Cassandre!! Maybe
in this age of electronic miracles, someone will be able to take a known
performance on disk, exise it from the recording, adapt the tempo to the new
recording and adjust it for pitch (given the new speed) and superimpose it over
some other singer's performance. My 3rd choice would be to graft Rockwell
Blake's voice over the truly dreadful tenor on the Sutherland SEMIRAMIDE
recording. Ramey over Rouleau would also be a pleasant addition!
Benjamin Maso
Matthew Good wrote in message <3718...@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
>Any thoughts from those based in Britain on this mornings Building a
Library
>"Der Rosenkavalier" and the chosen recording was that by Sir Georg Solti
>say am generally happy with it. It's main appeal for me is Crespin's
>Marchallin.
>for the reasons mentioned by the reviewer on the radio this morning - Lucia
>Popp's Sophie. I am very happy that he played that glorious phrase of
>Sophie's in Act II when she contemplates the rose - you all know the bit I
>mean. I have never heard anyone sing it like that, and it is worth forking
>out the money just for that phrase alone.
>
If it only concerns Sophie's phrase contemplating the rose: buy Heger
severly cut Rosenkavalier, because Elizabeth Schumann sings it even more
beautifully than Lucia Popp. My favorite all round R. is Boehm's live
recording with Ludwig, Troyanos, Mathis and Adam, because it's really a
theatrical performance in which the whole is definitely more than the sum of
all the parts. I grew up with Solti, but IMO it doesn't manage to overcome
the artificiality of a studio recording. Bernstein is hardly acceptable with
an awfully off-voice Oktavian. Kleiber is very good, but mono and Maria
Reining was already over the hill.
Benjo Maso
Matthew Good
Malcolm Ogilvie wrote in message ...
No, not at all, and he had to exclude other fine recordings because of this.
Matthew
Matthew Good
>
>Isn't it one of life's annoyances that the perfect recording doesn't exist?
If
>we could graft Crespin's Marshallin and Sena Jurinac's Oktavian into the
>Bernstein ROSENKAVALIER, it would be the greatest opera recording of all
time.
>As it is, to hear Sophie sung by the utterly magnificent Lucia Popp, we
have to
>listen to Gwyneth Jones, never a steady singer on her best days, singing
over a
>severe head cold, with a wobble that you can put your fist through, totally
>ruining the recording. Ludwig is quite wonderful, but perhaps not one of
the
>top 5 Marshallin interpreters.
>
I think you are being rather unfair to Dame Gwyneth and unkind. Perhaps her
voice isn't to everyone's taste, but this about performance, which means a
lot more than mere "beautiful" singing. Her singing becomes beautiful
through the performance.
Matthew
TColl65159
have a goo at some more - any suggestions?>>
Well she recorded the Witch in Hansel to some acclaim, which I`m trying to get
hold of . Maybe she could do that on stage ?
Trev
Matthew Good
TColl65159 wrote in message <19990418044641...@ng33.aol.com>...
Actually, no, she plays Gertrude, the children's mother. Christa Ludwig is
the witch. I have the recording and it is excellent. Dame Gwyneth doesn't
have too much scope for comedy, but she is very moving. You realy feel the
plight of this poor woman as opposed to the usual idea of just portraying
her a bitchy. Ludwig is hillarious.
Matthew
Jon A Conrad
>I think you are being rather unfair to Dame Gwyneth and unkind.
Totally fair. She's the one who recorded a role for a major label
sounding like this.
>Perhaps her
>voice isn't to everyone's taste,
It's not a matter of "taste," but of measurable demonstrable
pitch-obscuring wobble.
>but this about performance, which means a
>lot more than mere "beautiful" singing.
More, but not less. A great performance starts from at least good
singing. Dame Gwyneth has had her days of splendor, but they do not
include this recording. (And John Culshaw's "producer's note," while
protesting that he's not apologizing for the way she sounds as Octavian,
is clearly doing just that.) She's actually better a bit later as the
Marschallin on the Kleiber DG video.
I'd agree with the reported choice of Solti as a "first" ROSENKAVALIER:
nobody in the cast less than able, most thrilling, no cuts, good sound.
And then there are all kinds of favorite individual elements from other
recordings to imagine somehow combined: Jurinac, Gueden, Popp, Von Stade,
Troyanos, and on and on....
Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
con...@udel.edu
Matthew Good
>It's not a matter of "taste," but of measurable demonstrable
>pitch-obscuring wobble.
>
>>but this about performance, which means a
>>lot more than mere "beautiful" singing.
>
>More, but not less. A great performance starts from at least good
>singing. Dame Gwyneth has had her days of splendor, but they do not
>include this recording. (And John Culshaw's "producer's note," while
>protesting that he's not apologizing for the way she sounds as Octavian,
>is clearly doing just that.) She's actually better a bit later as the
>Marschallin on the Kleiber DG video.
>
enogh, I actually prefer her Octavian to her Marchallin.
Matthew
MD
>
Alas, what Culshaw doesn't include in his comments about the recording are
Leonard Bernstein absolutely screaming at Jones in full view of the Vienna
Philharmonic as she muffed take after take by straying off pitch, wobbling or
just plain not singing the music accurately. I know the woman was ill, but
she should have canceled rather than document her voice in that estate and
ruin a perfectly wonderful recording in the bargain. Her Marshallin, which I
heard in the house, was lovely in every way as she didn't have to throttle
her voice for all of Oktavian's big outbursts. The conductor was very
deferential to her and allowed her to continually sing behind the beat, which
is my biggest complaint about her... There are times in one of the Met Ring
broadcasts where she's almost a measure behind the orchestra, still hanging
on to her high notes (which in any case were no things of beauty and needn't
have been held a nano-second beyond their printed value). I would thing
Gwyneth Jones will go down as the poster child for what is wrong with opera
from about 1970 onwards:
Singers who take on parts they are patently unsuited for, abetted by stage
directors who don't seem to have read the libretti and managements who hire
singers based on glamor and fame rather than accomplishment. How else to
explain Ewing as Salome, Scotto as Gioconda and Lady Macbeth and McNair as a
disastrous Cleopatra just this week. I can just hear Zinka now, "a dog is a
dog even if he wishes he were a cat".....
>
>
> More, but not less. A great performance starts from at least good
> singing. Dame Gwyneth has had her days of splendor, but they do not
> include this recording. (And John Culshaw's "producer's note," while
> protesting that he's not apologizing for the way she sounds as Octavian,
> is clearly doing just that.) She's actually better a bit later as the
> Marschallin on the Kleiber DG video.
>
TColl65159
believe, Evelyn Lear, Ruth Welting (I think, Edo De Waart. Have you heard it,
is it any good ?
Trev (london) sick that I missed Dame Gwyneth on Artist of the Week this
morning!!
TColl65159
Perhaps you can help. When in Oslo last November I saw a complete opera with
Gwyneth but I`m blessed if I can recall what it was called. I THINK it was by
Schmidt? I`d be grateful if you can shed any light on this.
Trev
I thought Ewing was a wonderful Salome as was Scotto`s gioconda-on video/ TV
anyway!
james jorden
DAME. (1989: King, Laubenthal, Welker, Moll;' Perick. Capriccio
10248/9.)
This information from the parterre box divapage saluting Dame Gwyneth
(www.parterre.com/joneshome.htm)
--
james jorden
jjo...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.parterre.com
"Style is the most important thing in the world. Fashion is the least."
-- Quentin Crisp
TColl65159
track down a copy!
Many thanks,
Trevor
Matthew Good
MD wrote in message <371A5D3D...@isomedia.com>...
If it is wrong to bring passion to great music; if it is wrong to bring
pleasure to millions and fill their hearts with gladness; if it is wrong to
stand forth on stage and praise God with every note you sing, then, yes,
Dame Gwyneth does symbolise everything that is wrong with opera.
Matthew
PS. The final is true. Dame Gwyneth is a Christian and does indeed praise
God with her singing. My own faith, frail at times, has often been bolstered
by her art.
james jorden
> Alas, what Culshaw doesn't include in his comments about the recording are
> Leonard Bernstein absolutely screaming at Jones in full view of the Vienna
> Philharmonic as she muffed take after take by straying off pitch, wobbling
> or just plain not singing the music accurately.
We also have videotape of Bernstein deliberately baiting Jose Carreras
about his inexact rhythm in "Maria," until the tenor walks out of the
session. And while DG is paying all those expensive session musicians,
the maestro turns quite deliberately to the camera and smirks, "Such a
difficult man!"
In other words, the very gifted Leonard Bernstein could be a cowardly
bastard when things did not go his way.
On the subject of Ms. Jones's rhythmic inexactitude, I have witnessed in
the theater James Levine virtually rewrite scores of Mozart, Wagner,
Strauss, Giordano, and Puccini in order to accomodate the whims,
vagaries, or just plain stupidity of such artists as Kathleen Battle,
Hildegard Behrens, Jessye Norman and Luciano Pavarotti -- with 98% of
the audience not knowing anything was wrong. If he cannot follow the
phrasing of a Dame Gwyneth, that's *his* problem, not hers.