Quote re: Pavarotti
cwerk
following comment was made regarding Pavarotti's
abilities. I am not very knowledgeable about the
technical qualities of singers and would like some
input.
> Pavarotti is a novices' hero who has never
> bothered to learn another language other than
> his own to sing. You would never catch him
> singing German lieder, which is considered a
> true test of a singer's artistry.
Thank you, Carole
jjo...@my-dejanews.com
> > Pavarotti is a novices' hero who has never
> > bothered to learn another language other than
> > his own to sing. You would never catch him
> > singing German lieder, which is considered a
> > true test of a singer's artistry.
I will not comment on what the term "novice's hero" might mean.
Pavarotti sings in French and English as well as his native Italian. Like
most Italian singers, Pavarotti does not sing in German. Not many Italian
opera singers perform lieder; in fact, it's news when a singer like Anna
Caterina Antonacci DOES include lieder in her programs.
German lieder are best performed by a German-speaking artist for a
German-speaking audience or at least an audience who are prepared to
appreciate the subtle inflection of words and vocal colors deriving from the
singer's use of the language. Italian art songs offer the less intellectal
pleasures of beauty of tone, bel canto expression, and creation of a simple
mood.
Pavarotti is one of the few Italian opera superstars who frequently performs
recitals with piano. His programs are rather unadventurous, it is true:
songs of Bellini, Rossini and Respighi, a few arie antiche, and popular
arias. But that sort of repertoire is what his public wants to hear and he
does perform this limited range of material very well indeed.
It seems to me snobbish and narrow-minded to insist that this repertoire is
somehow a "lower" or less worthy object of the singer's artistry.
jj
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TomKauf2
Pavarotti:
>Pavarotti is a novices' hero who has never
bothered to learn another language other than his own to sing. You would
never catch him singing German lieder, which is considered a true test of a
singer's artistry.
>
They are entitled to their opinion, as I am. The facts are that Pavarotti has
sung and recorded in French (La Fille du Regiment). As for German Lieder being
a true test of a singer's artistry, this statement may or may not be
applicable to German and central European singers, but any attempt to make it
applicable to Italian singers is sheer nonesense. My only complaint concerning
Pavarotti is that he never recorded roles like Dom Sebastien, Ugo in
Donizetti's Parisina, Fernando in his Marino Faliero and the like.
If I may be permitted another complaint it is that he wasted his time singing
roles that were too heavy, such as Canio and Otello.
If anybody tries to tell you that great Italian tenors like Pavarotti must
branch out into German Lieder to test their artistry, tell them they are all
wet.
Tom Kaufman
Marcia Dietrich
>
>In a Canadian paper within the past couple of days, the
>following comment was made regarding Pavarotti's
>abilities. I am not very knowledgeable about the
>technical qualities of singers and would like some
>input.
>
>> bothered to learn another language other than
>> his own to sing. You would never catch him
>> singing German lieder, which is considered a
>> true test of a singer's artistry.
>
I am not an expert, so others will be of more help. I don't see the
quote as a fair statement in regard to lieder being the true test for
artistry. Certainly there have must been 'artistic' singers who never
learned German and never sang lieder - singers who stuck with the Italian
and French operas. I think with work Pavarotti could have done justice
to several French operas. And it is regretable he didn't work in that
direction. How many big-name Italian tenors have done a great deal of
German opera or lieder? Caruso did some Wagner I know. I don't know
about lieder.
Marcia
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> Pavarotti sings in French and English as well as his native Italian.
Don't forget Latin! And how about dialects such as Neapolitan?
--
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GregF NC
>German opera or lieder?
I don't think any Italians have, but both Bjoerling and Wunderlich sang lieder.
Greg F(in North Carolina)
Ken B Lane
Colon in Buenos Aires.
On August 4, 191`5, he mqade one of his few, very few performances opposite
Titta Ruffo at the Teatro Colon.
To hold one's own opposite Ruffo must have daunted many a singer.. Only a
singer such as Caruso his equal in matters tenorial could surmount such a
challenge.
Had Caruso the time and necessity to do the German rep, with his
self-analytical autodidact methodolgy, he could have done it surppassingly
well.
All the best!
Ken Lanep
Deborah Overes
>>following comment was made regarding Pavarotti's
>>abilities. I am not very knowledgeable about the
>>technical qualities of singers and would like some
>>input.
>>
>>> Pavarotti is a novices' hero who has never
>>> bothered to learn another language other than
>>> his own to sing. You would never catch him
>>> singing German lieder, which is considered a
>>> true test of a singer's artistry.
>>
>>Thank you, Carole
First, Pavarotti has sung some French repertoire (not terribly well, but he
did sing it). I don't know that he is only a 'novice's hero'. He is not one
of my favourites but many very knowledgeable, long-time opera fans admire
him very much in the right repertoire. Finally, singing German lieder is
the true test of a singer's artistry in German lieder (IMO of course)
Deborah Overes
-Aufwiedersehen und Danke Schoen, Hermann Prey.
The great artists never die.
Celia A. Sgroi
> German lieder are best performed by a German-speaking artist for a
> German-speaking audience or at least an audience who are prepared to
> appreciate the subtle inflection of words and vocal colors deriving from
> the singer's use of the language.
This would surprise Thomas Hampson, Barbara Bonney, and Ian Bostridge,
among others, who spend a good deal of their time singing lieder. (And
Anne Sophie von Otter, Bo Skovhus, Barbara Hendricks, Bryn Terfel, etc.
etc.)
It is, however, absolutely true that non-German singers of lieder should
have an excellent command of the language-- except, of course, that Janet
Baker couldn't speak the language at all and was nevertheless a great
singer of lieder.
Celia A. Sgroi
State University of New York
College at Oswego
sg...@oswego.edu
Michael Delos
many singers confine themselves to their own language, polishing their
roles and trying to sing them better than anyone else. True,
Pavarotti's excursions into the French repertoire have been stylistic
mis-steps, although his "Fille" was beautifully vocalised. But it's too
much to hope that the muses would bestow ALL aspects of what it takes to
be a great opera "package" in one human being. Pavarotti has a
legendary vocal apparatus - I don't think that's in question. He has a
great technique and a great ear. He doesn't read music. He's built
along non-romantic lines. He sings a limited repertoire in one
language. He's sung at an incredibly high vocal standard for close to
40 years, with a few vocal crises along the way. It's always going to
be a matter of taste as to which singer one likes over another. But to
say that because an incredibly gifted Italian singer can't convincingly
sing German lieder is really besides the point. He also can't do
parallel bars in the Olympics, paint the Mona Lisa or write 'Hamlet'. I
think the quote is uninformed and pointless.
Michael Delos
> How many big-name Italian tenors have done a great deal of
> German opera or lieder? Caruso did some Wagner I know. I don't know
> about lieder.
>
> Marcia
>
The number of Italian tenors who have sung German Opera in the original
language would be virtually nil, save for Del Monaco essaying Siegmund, which
was embarrassingly bad. Aside from English speakers, the 'Latins' who have
been successful, for whatever reason, have been Ramon Vinay, a Chilean, and
Domingo, a Spaniard/Mexican. Vinay's German was exquisite and he sang it
like it was his native tongue. Domingo's is somewhat soft-edged, or
"Italianate" if you will, but of course the vocal beauty is such a pleasure
to hear in that repertoire. Caruso sang Lohengrin briefly, but in Italian
only. Pertile sang a good deal of Wagner, but again in Italian. George
Thill sang all of his Wagner is French.
Ed Rosen
catagory.
He sang nearly everything in his native Italian.
At the Met in the 20's he did sing French opera in French, such as
Romeo and Manon, among others.
As soon as he started singing mainly in Italy in the early 30's, he
only did French roles in Italian, though. He even recorded French arias
in Italian with the exception of the aria from Le Roi Dys, and two
Romeo duets with Farrar, I believe.
His solo French arias recorded in Italian included arias from Carmen,
Faust, Manon, Pearlfishers, and others.
That certainly doesn't diminish him in my eyes. It obviously was the
custom to sing all operas in Italian in Italy during his time, and that
is what he did. In some cases, it meant relearning roles he had
earlier learned for the Met in French, such as those mentioned above.
Pavarotti has done fewer roles in French. Is Fille the only one? I
think so. But he has done Manon in Italian in Italy in the late 60's,
and also has sung and recorded French arias in French, such as Werther,
Carmen, and many others.
I think, vocally at least, he would have had the perfect voice for
Romeo in the late 60's, but a recording was not forthcoming.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net>
Legato Classics, Inc.
http://www.legatoclassics.com
Benjamin Rous
>
> Romeo in the late 60's, but a recording was not forthcoming.
>
the late sixties,
including the "Amour, ramine mon courage" aria for Juliette which is cut
on the EMI recording
Freni did with Corelli. Pavarotti's French certainly couldn't be worse
than Franco's. Just thinking
about it makes my mouth (ot rather, my ears, in some strange metaphorical
way) water...
Benjamin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> "On ne meurt pas chacun pour soi, mais les uns pour les autres,
> ou meme les uns a la place des autres, qui sait ?"
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Tue, Jul 28, 1998 15:03 EDT
>Message-id: <35BE207E...@isomedia.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>> How many big-name Italian tenors have done a great deal of
>> German opera or lieder? Caruso did some Wagner I know. I don't know
>> about lieder.
>>
>> Marcia
==================
Cesare Valletti recorded -- and beautifully -- a Schumann cycle. I recall a
terrific "Ich grolle nicht."
==G/P Dave
Ken B Lane
made his debut in 1893 and sang the world premiere of Andrea Chenier at La
Scala in the title role on March 28, 1896. His singing career at La Scala was
from 1896 to 1913. He was also the first La Scala t Cavaradossi [La Tosca] and
was a great favorite at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aores. That same great opera
house was the scene of Caruso's Lohengrins and the place where he sang opposite
titta Ruffo on Aust 4th 1915.
Borgatti was the tenor under Maestro Arturo Toscanini's direction, who sang
Wagner at La Scala to world acclaim. All of his wagner reordings are
obtainable on a single LP.
Sadly his opera singing ended, when in rehearsal at La Scala for a Tristan, he
had a stroke and went blind.
Thereafter, he turned to teaching until his death in 1950.
Georges Thill's French-language interpretation of Lohengrin's "In fernem Land"
is one of the most lyric and poetic and beautiful examples of singing one can
hear !
Kenneth Lane, Wagnerian Romantischer Heldentenor
