Any Sherrill Milnes fans out there?
MIC121660
I was curious if there were any Sherrill Milnes fans out there.
I am a leading baritone with an opera company here
in Atlanta.
In regards to Sherrill Milnes voice, it's nice to have someone
who can humble you! What an instrument!
Placido 21
yrs..He has lost total control of the passaggio and cannot negotiate his
music..a fine potential....but never made it in the minds of those who are
still aghast that he had a career of such success.....He was wonderful
once..but it was short-lived.I am sure you singwith betetr technical skill.Most
baritones do.CH
Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,and no.1 fan of the great Diana Soviero..so
there!
Ed Rosen
(MIC121660) writes:
>
>Hi,
>
>I was curious if there were any Sherrill Milnes fans out there.
No.
JonImb
esp. Found his singing, his presence, and the sound of his voice very moving.
Bob
JonImb
>yrs..He has lost total control of the passaggio and cannot negotiate his
>music..a fine potential....but never made it in the minds of those who are
>still aghast that he had a career of such success.....He was wonderful
>once..but it was short-lived.I am sure you singwith betetr technical
>skill.Most
>baritones do.CH
> Charlie,
Hmmm...I wonder if you could make it through an entire month without ripping
another singer to shreads. What is up with the need for this incessant deluge
of critique????
Bob
Wotan99
>From: mic1...@aol.com (MIC121660)
>Date: 12/27/98 11:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19981227231831...@ng-ft1.aol.com>
>
>Hi,
>
>I was curious if there were any Sherrill Milnes fans out there.
>in Atlanta.
>
>In regards to Sherrill Milnes voice, it's nice to have someone
>who can humble you! What an instrument!
>
least a 20 year period. This seems to be the season to trash people's
careers--recently it was J. Norman, and while I think she should do something
(retire?) her present vocal state doesn't negate the earlier part of her career
and some genuine accomplishments.
So it is with Milnes; certainly for many years he's had major problems with
his voice, but his legacy will put him in the company of a great line of
American baritones-Tibbet, even J charles Thomas, Warren, Merrill Mac Neil. He
was that rare voice-a true verdi baritone, and his Trovatore, Don Carlos, Ballo
etc. were admirable. Live he was an attractive figure, posed effectively and
was sufficient as an actor and had that big pleasing sound, with ringing top
notes. That may have been his downfall-a real case of Warrenitis-and while I
admire Warren a great deal, his overemphasis on the top notes (maybe he could
have been a tenor?) I think had a bad influence.
Now Merrill, that's a real baritone, with a top that seems part of the whole-
too bad he often didn't use his voice in a more interesting way..most exciting
baritone I ever heard was MacNeil.
Of course I'm sure you'll hear Warren, Warren and Warren from these guys, but
that doesn't mean there weren't some others
Today we'd kill for a Milnes in his prime..there are no real baritones...a
Russian who was an artist but not the voice for a big house, there's Croft,who
has some nice qualities, and is an all around performer, but just doesn't have
the right voice I'm afraid, and that other Russian who may have the voice and
the quality, but if he doesn't take the plunge soon it may be too late
W99
Claud H. Shirley III
>
> So it is with Milnes; certainly for many years he's had major problems with
> his voice, but his legacy will put him in the company of a great line of
> American baritones-Tibbet, even J charles Thomas, Warren, Merrill Mac Neil.
I enjoyed Sherril Milnes' performances for the first ten years or so,
definitely his best period - then he lost the ability to sing on pitch
in the entire middle section of his range, and his legato became very
muscular and bumpy and woofy. He had a certain kind of stage face that
worked well, but his acting was square, and blustering. I thought he
was very fine as MacBeth, Renato, and Carlo in Ernani. But I found his
Iago and Tonio vocally grotesque to the point of silliness. The one
role that really stands out in my memory was Athanael to Sills' Thais -
he was truly a moving figure, and looked the part perfectly.
But, IMO, I don't rank him anywhere near the above-mentioned baritones -
Tibbett, Thomas, WARREN, Merrill, MacNeil - these singers offer the top
of the line of home-grown baritones, regardless of the duration of their
careers (and I would add a personal favorite, Walter Cassell). And none
of them ever had to depend on any tricks - their voices said and did it
all. I place Milnes somewhere with Frank Guarrera, John Reardon,
William Walker, Thomas Stewart, Calvin Marsh, William Dooley. Each had
parts of a great voice - but not the whole thing. (I also think that
Milnes usually tried in every way possible to sing like the great
Leonard Warren, but he just didn't have a comparable engine, and ended
up with blown, frayed gaskets, and stripped gears.)
Placido 21
that..Just bedause a person says what he thinks about a singer (ever read
reviews???) that does not mean it is somethging terrible..This would be a
boring forum if everyone oloved everyone.....CH
Placido 21
discussing his vocal production,roles,basic technique...if you can..do
it....then we wil lrespect your opinion....agree or not....does not matter.but
'cool" says nothing about a singer.CH
Wotan99
>Date: 12/28/98 2:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19981228141352...@ng13.aol.com>
>
>Yeah.."Cool" is an extremely erudite means of describing a singer..How about
>discussing his vocal production,roles,basic technique...if you can..do
>it....then we wil lrespect your opinion....agree or not....does not
>matter.but
>'cool" says nothing about a singer.CH
But you never say anything specific either. Just these broad critical
generalities(and sometimes nasty), and references to the past, with nostalgia..
We're still waiting about F-D, or Milnes(and not his voice today-we all know
that) I'd love to read a detailed critique.
No one wants uniformity of opinion-do you? But as I thought we both agreed,
opinion should be more than just a pronouncement.
W99
wk...@juno.com
plac...@aol.com (Placido 21) wrote:
> Yeah.."Cool" is an extremely erudite means of describing a singer..
This from someone whose idea of vocal criticism is to compare Milnes to Bert
Lahr.
> How about
> discussing his vocal production,roles,basic technique...if you can.
You first.
Bill
--
William D. Kasimer
wk...@juno.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
GRNDPADAVE
would not be without. His first recordings of LA TRAVIATA (with Bergonzi and
Caballé) and IL TROVATORE (with Domingo and Price) reveal a brilliant baritone
with a stunning top, but one who can modulate his volume effectively and with
no alarming mannerisms.
-
But there is the disfiguring RIGOLETTO (with Pavarotti and Sutherland) in which
he feels called upon to exaggeratedly inflect each phrase -- as though he can
impart emotions, as it were, from the outside. In that he emulates Robert
Merrill as opposed to Leonard Warren where one feels the presence of the
Jester's soul.
-
Milnes is also outstanding in I VESPRI SICILIANI, IL TABARRO and DON CARLOS --
the common denominator being the solid presence of Placido Domingo in those
recordings. Somehow, Milnes sang better opposite Domingo than with any other
tenor, imho.
-
It is a pity that his career did not last longer than it did, but at his best
Sherrill Milnes was one of the great baritones of the last 40 years.
-
==G/P Dave
Mark and Melanie Mills
completely retired, still singing sometimes, dead or what??
MIC121660 wrote in message <19981227231831...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
james jorden
Giovanni, and Scarpia. He also teaches master classes.
--
james jorden
jjo...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.parterre.com
"Gay people not only keep opera going,
they keep plays about opera going."
--- Bette Midler
Ed Rosen
<mmi...@netdoor.com> writes:
>
>So does anyone have any idea what Milnes is doing these days? Is he
>completely retired, still singing sometimes, dead or what??
He is dead but still singing. His voice is dead, that is.
Ed
Placido 21
person how to sing!!!! CH
Wotan99
>Date: 12/28/98 5:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <19981228172116...@ng37.aol.com>
Extreme bashing of great singers seems to be in season. You know I'm not a fan
of Domingos (but this endless savaging is ridiculous), but the Trovatore with
Milnes is a fine recording. Oh, yes, the Traviata, some nice work there. I
forgot completely about Il Tabarro-I had that on an LP, haven't heard it in
yrs.-but excellent. His Don Carlos was also good as was particularly the
library scene from Ballo. I agree that he didn't plumet the depths in most
roles, however he was not surface either, and that coupled with the right
sound, an ability to follow the composers wishes, and nice phrasing is a great
accomplishment.
It's always hard to appraise a singers' legacy, especially when we are so close
to his career, and have the memory of his vocal travails of the later years
fresh in our ears. But if you remember Milnes in his glory years, and most of
all look at the best of his recorded legacy which is, afterall how we will
judge him, I think he has earned his place in the pantheon of great verdi
baritones.
Again, look at what is around today--we all crave the real sound.. it's been a
while since we heard it.
W99
JonImb
>discussing his vocal production,roles,basic technique...if you can..do
>it....then we wil lrespect your opinion....agree or not....does not
>matter.but
>'cool" says nothing about a singer.CH
The original question was, if you'll recall, in reference to any other Milnes
fans, not a call to dissect Milnes' technique.
As far as YOU respecting my opinion, I couldn't care less.
Bob
PS Milnes is TOTALLY cool in my book.
LuciaMim
Has anyone heard Milnes in Hamlet with Sutherland? I've had this LP for a long
time. It's no longer available and has not been transferred to CD, either. I
wonder why?
Best wishes,
Mimi
Kolya
LuciaMim wrote:
> Has anyone heard Milnes in Hamlet with Sutherland? I've had this LP for a long
> time. It's no longer available and has not been transferred to CD, either. I
> wonder why?
Hi there: I have the CD; it's part of London's Grand Opera Series (London 433
857-2 rereleased in 1992) but you are right, it's hard to find (believe Tower has
it as an import).
I like the supporting cast quite a bit--James Morris' Claudius, Gosta
Winbergh's Laertes, Keith Lewis as Marcellus, John Tomlinson as Le Spectre.
IMO, it's a bit late in the day for the Hamlet and Ophelie; the sessions were
done in mid 1983. Still, I'll take Milnes in '83 over Hampson...
Best, Alan
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mimi
LuciaMim
Thanks, Alan, I'll keep trying. Many places had told me in the past that it
was "out of print"
However, I have picked up some "imports" from Tower this past year. So I guess
I'll go to the one in the Loop, or better yet the one in Lincoln Park near the
DePaul campus. They have knowledgeable people there.
Best wishes,
Mimi
Eric D. Peterson
Wotan99 wrote:
> It's always hard to appraise a singers' legacy, especially when we are so close
> to his career, and have the memory of his vocal travails of the later years
> fresh in our ears. But if you remember Milnes in his glory years, and most of
> all look at the best of his recorded legacy which is, afterall how we will
> judge him, I think he has earned his place in the pantheon of great verdi
> baritones.
Considering that Milnes never recovered from his vocal crisis in the early '80 and
yet has continued to afflict our ears, does it surprise you that few people
remember him in his prime? Nearly 20 years of bad singing has a tendency to do
that! Ask Anna Moffo.
Eric Peterson
donpaolo
what was in the jester's very soul. Agree about Milnes, who(m) I always
liked - except for that buffoonery as Iago & Rigoletto. As Iago he did
everything but wear a black cape & twirl his moustache - ridiculous! But,
much of what he did, particularly Alfonso in La Favorita, was terrific & I
would place him in the Tibbett, Warren, MacNeil, etc., line of great
American baritones.
DonP.
GRNDPADAVE <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981228172116...@ng37.aol.com>...
Mark and Melanie Mills
Ed Rosen wrote in message <769845$9...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>...
Edward Burke
and he sings with such eloquence. He signed his photograph for me and
was very friendly.
Victoria Heirston
North Babylon, LI NY
Eddie Burke
Long Island, NY
The Gateway to the Atlantic
can...@webtv.net
night of the Met's current production of "Don Carlos", a fabulous,
moving portrayal sung from the heart.
donpaolo
Wotan99 <wot...@aol.com> wrote in article >
.
> Of course I'm sure you'll hear Warren, Warren and Warren from these guys,
but
> that doesn't mean there weren't some others
RRRRight you are: Warren, Warren, Warren; but yes, there were others - IMO
always a step behind!
Giiiiiilda! Giiiildahhhhhhh! - where are you going to find a comparable
Rigoletto?
Why do we always neglect to mention Luis Quilico in our "American" baritone
discussions? A Canadian, I consider him among the finest, albeit
underappreciated!
DonP.
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Tue, Dec 29, 1998 19:29 EST
>Message-id: <01be338b$bafd8480$5e29accf@default>
Louis Quilico is a powerful Rodrigo in the Levine/Metropolitan video of DON
CARLOS. There is a cetain hamminess in his acting, but the singing is pure.
Here is a rich Verdian sound. He does not shout down his duet companions --
and he contributes a very moving death scene.
-
I think he also recorded a wonderful Riccardo in I PURITANI with Beverly Sills.
==G/P Dave
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Tue, Dec 29, 1998 17:02 EST
>Message-id: <01be3377$32967ac0$0557accf@default>
>
>Mio molto caro nonno phrased it perfectly - Warren did indeed make one feel
>what was in the jester's very soul. Agree about Milnes, who(m) I always
>liked - except for that buffoonery as Iago & Rigoletto. As Iago he did
>everything but wear a black cape & twirl his moustache - ridiculous! But,
>much of what he did, particularly Alfonso in La Favorita, was terrific & I
>would place him in the Tibbett, Warren, MacNeil, etc., line of great
>American baritones.
>
>DonP.
>
Don P. unerringly zeroes in on Milnes' merits and deficiencies.
-
I will offer the heresy that Verdi was led astray by Boito in OTELLO. Iago is
demonized to the point where his humanity virtually disappears. Amonasro and
Di Luna exhibit more human traits.
-
I am turned off whenever the Iago guffaws in hilarity at the naughtiness of the
revelation "la morte e nulla e vecchial foll'al ciel".
-
Milnes falls into the trap -- but so does Warren. Gobbi and Valdengo are
subtler in this role. I think the best of the role is found in the aria "Era
la notte" and in the trio with Cassio and Otello.
-
I think it is a defect that Otello is made the victim of a Satanic character
rather than coming to grief over his own tragic flaw.
-
Of course, this is a magnificent opera, but I think it could have been better.
For me, it is Iago who subtracts from the nobility of the work. Just imagine
how egregious this blemish would have been had Verdi acquiesced in Boito's
initial treatment where Iago eavesdrops on the Act I Love Duet and makes
melodramatic comments on it (a la Tonio in Act I of PAGLIACCI).
-
It is understandable that Milnes twirls a virtual moustache as he essays the
role. It would take a supreme artist to overcome melodramatic temptations and
provide the more human character that Shakespeare limned and that -- apart from
the Credo -- Verdi depicted.
==G/P Dave
Ed Rosen
writes:
>
>
>Wotan99 <wot...@aol.com> wrote in article >
>.
>> Of course I'm sure you'll hear Warren, Warren and Warren from these
guys,
>but
>> that doesn't mean there weren't some others
>
>RRRRight you are: Warren, Warren, Warren; but yes, there were others -
IMO
>always a step behind!
>
>Giiiiiilda! Giiiildahhhhhhh! - where are you going to find a
comparable
>Rigoletto?
>
>Why do we always neglect to mention Luis Quilico in our "American"
baritone
>discussions? A Canadian, I consider him among the finest, albeit
>underappreciated!
>
>DonP.
>
enough to have seen him perhaps 25 times, in, as I recall, Traviata,
Trovatore, Aida, Forza, Pagliacci, Boccanegra, and especially
Rigoletto. He was supreme. He could do anything with his voice-
anything. He could sing his entire range forte or piano. He acted
with his voice, and he was a fine actor on stage.
As regards Louis Quilico, I thought he had a fine voice, but remember
the words attributed to James Levine about 20 years ago. He said that
Quilico was the greatest second rate baritone in the world.
I think he meant it as a compliment. I kind of agree. Qulico was
fine, but not first rank. His voice was big, but he had trouble singing
a real legato, and his diction, in Italian, was very, very strange and
sometimes unintelligable.
Best,
Ed
Wotan99
>Date: 12/29/98 7:29 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <01be338b$bafd8480$5e29accf@default>
>Giiiiiilda! Giiiildahhhhhhh! - where are you going to find a comparable
>Rigoletto?
How about Mac Neil??
His Giiiilda was frightening, and a great Rigoletto.
Now I'm not going to be put in the position of being negative about Warren
because he's always been one of my favorites. However, I find on recordings (I
was a bit young for Warren, but heardMacNeil, Merrill, Milnes,Gobbi, Glossep,
Managuerra, Quilico etc. all in person, and some many times) that Warren does
have some flaws.
Ed said
"He was supreme. He could do anything with his voice-
anything. He could sing his entire range forte or piano. He acted
with his voice, and he was a fine actor on stage. "
Of course, much of that is true but....
I do find the voice a bit "muddy" on the bottom, and sometimes it sounds like a
has a potato in his mouth, and the voice can lose focus, and while a true Verdi
baritone should glory in the high tessitura, I sometimes feel that he is too
focused on the big notes, to the extent that the voice loses a natural organic
baritonal tone. And didn't someone say recently that macneil's top was even
more spectacular--god it sure was spectacular.
I guess I prefer a more natural baritone sound..like Merrill, or one of the
most beautiful voices, Stacciari. If my choice was to hear Warren or Ruffo,
I'll take the lion, the king of baritones whose voice could do
anything, and was a moving interpreter.
I agree with the remarks re: Quilico...he just misses, but a great, long
career. I remember on several occasions how he stole the show with Eri Tu, and
I remember thinking..if the voice had a bit more ping, more focus, instead of
just this huge sound, that could be a bit dull..he would have been a star
W99
dtritter
like a rooster who just found a mirror in the barnyard. having seen his
performances in about a dozen or so roles, it is safe to say that not
one characterization differed from the rest. but the voice? mashed
potatoes, sure, but a unique sound that defined the term verdi baritone.
dft
LuciaMim
What made Gobbi's Iago so great was that he dispensed with the "mustache
twirling," etc. He insisted that Iago come across as believable. Who would
believe him if all perceived him to be Satanic? Gobbi insisted that Iago also
be at least pleasant-looking and pleasant in appearance. That's how he is able
to get away with the things he does. Nobody believes this "nice" fellow
capable of the things he does - except Emilia. I think Gobbi's ideas on this
make a lot of sense. After all, besides Otello, there are a number of other
characters he interacts with, all of whom believe him. AY! And there's the
rub!
Best wishes & Happy New Year,
Mimi
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Tue, Dec 29, 1998 21:10 EST
>Message-id: <36898BAB...@bway.net>
I don't understand the business about lack of differentiation.
-
Warren's Germont is warm, almost introverted. His Rigoletto is huge in scale
with a soulfulness that makes me think he had the character of Quasimodo in
mind.
-
The Amonasro is ferocious from the get-go. No one I have heard is so arresting
with the "Suo p-a-a-a-adre. Anch'io pugnai. Vinti noi fummo. Morte invan
cercai!!" (with an emphasis punctuated by the bass drum on that last note --
not the least bit muddy I might add).
-
The Warren engine took time to warm up. Around 1959 it often betrayed a wobble
at ignition time (MACBETH). But eventually it would kick in and produce volumes
of golden sound. I just about find it impossible to listen to anybody else's
Rigoletto.
-
What a tragedy that he did not live long enough to record the definitive
Falstaff. His 1949 performances already showed great insight into the
character.
==G/P Dave
Ed Rosen
What year did you meet him? Sounds like 1969 or so.
Ed
dtritter
you'll hear a German language Jurinac-Windgassen-Mittelmann performance
that is absolutely astonishing. And Norman Mittelman [direction by Otto
Schenk] is a bully-boy Iago, sort of Parris Island marine style, who
dispenses with the mustache twirling and sucks up to Otello as
subalterns have done to the commander ever since the Greeks were
underdogs at the Battle of Marathon. It is also superbly sung. Next to
this, the Iagos I heard from Milnes were at a high school level.
dft
emma...@my-dejanews.com
read and have utter contempt for. However, I must say, I've never been
impressed by Milnes and if there was a prime, I thought it ended fast, real
fast. However over this Christmas season, I have met three, count 'em, THREE
up and coming baritones who have used Milnes as a model for their singing of
higher lieing Italian roles. I engaged one in spirited discussion about that
-- pointing out that Milnes' clumsy manipulation of what I call the "American
baritone flip" to get his high notes undermined his voice, induced a wobble
and seriously limited his coloristic options. "But he covers as one must, and
we are tempted not to nowadays," was the response. But when I asked this man
(the brightest and best of the three) what he meant by cover, and what he
made of Milnes' glottal gurgle, he did get a bit confused. The sad problem
with Domingo, Milnes and others who become very celebrated is they start to
define the highest standards for younger singers. Teachers, to keep their
students, "teach" Domingo or Milnes. I don't think there are any voice
teachers who "teach" Bartoli -- there are too many other mezzos doing her rep
with acclaim and in the profession some are thought more highly of (and most
people realize Bartoli's distinctive manner and voice, good or bad, are
inimitable). Unfortunately, few if any voice teachers "teach" Battistini or
Stracciari -- who achieved their high notes without audible gear shifting and
maintained a beautiful color throughout the range over long careers. Thus the
downward slide in vocal ability continues, helped along not by the influence
of press agents or even of reviewers but by ignorance in the very core of the
profession, the stupidity of people who are paid to know better but wreck, or
at least, ill-equip their students.
Emma Albani
--
e voi stupidi! Abiamo pensate ch'emma e morta? Guai, infame, stronzi e
stupidi, guai ti dico! serious replies emma...@LycosMail.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
MD
emma...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> I have met three, count 'em, THREE
> up and coming baritones who have used Milnes as a model for their singing of
> higher lieing Italian roles. I engaged one in spirited discussion about that
> -- pointing out that Milnes' clumsy manipulation of what I call the "American
> baritone flip" to get his high notes undermined his voice, induced a wobble
> and seriously limited his coloristic options. "But he covers as one must, and
> we are tempted not to nowadays," was the response. But when I asked this man
> (the brightest and best of the three) what he meant by cover, and what he
> made of Milnes' glottal gurgle, he did get a bit confused.
Emma, this is an interesting post. Milnes had difficulty narrowing the vowels
down when he reached f or f-sharp in his upper voice. There was always an
audible "grind" at the point, and then the voice would open up again from 'g'
upwards. He either had a teacher who didn't believe in 'cover', or he felt it
was a more exciting sound to take the big voice all the way up through what
should be a narrow 'passaggio'. When one is young you can get away with a lot,
but there comes a day of vocal reckoning, as di Stefano found out all too soon.
But in his case, I don't think he BELIEVED in the concept of the passaggio for
the tenor, and he sang wide open all the way up to high D. And then the voice
disintegrated. Milnes just never had the discipline or the inclination to smooth
that passaggio out and the voice became dis-jointed.
> Unfortunately, few if any voice teachers "teach" Battistini or
> Stracciari -- who achieved their high notes without audible gear shifting and
> maintained a beautiful color throughout the range over long careers.
I suppose what you're describing in essence is the bel canto training of
Marchesi, where there is a conscious effort to even the voice out so that the
registers seem to disappear. Melba and Sutherland sang that way.... students
would be well advised to listen to some Sutherland's 2 octave scales in either
Giulio Caesare or Semiramide to hear what a truly even scale sounds like. Of the
bel canto baritones you mention (Stracciari and Battistini) you could also add de
Luca. I also think that Hampson's training is very good, regardless of his
choice of roles. I know he croons too much for some people, but the technique is
solid as a rock and very healthy.
In Milnes defense, he had a vocal breakdown in the early 80's while singing
Nabucco in Paris, and never was the same again. I believe he broke a blood vessel
in one of his vocal folds while singing over a cold or laryngitis. I remember a
Rigoletto broadcast from around 1986 that would have made a stone weep... all
those repeated 'c's on "Quel vecchio maledivami" that just were out of control,
as if one of his vocal chords just couldn't stay engaged.... he very cleverly
shifted his repertoire to things like Rance, Amonasro, Gerard and Scarpia, where
beauty of tone isn't the end all and be all of the role. Still he occasionally
had good nights, and I was pleased to hear him sing Miller in Luisa Miller as
late as 1989 at the Met with almost everything working.
donpaolo
GRNDPADAVE <grndp...@aol.com> -
> I am turned off whenever the Iago guffaws in hilarity at the naughtiness
of the
> revelation "la morte e nulla e vecchial foll'al ciel".
> -
> Milnes falls into the trap -- but so does Warren. Gobbi and Valdengo are
> subtler in this role. I think the best of the role is found in the aria
"Era
> la notte" and in the trio with Cassio and Otello.
Dave brings out some fascinating points via his astute observations:
It depends on the nature of the "guffaw" - if it is giggled, like a mean &
nasty brat who just broke the neighbor's window, the whole essence of the
credo, even the entire character, is lost. However, a quiet sneer or, at
the other extreme, diabolical, perhaps victorious, Warrenesque laugh serves
to underscore the insane evil...good theater, when done right, I think.
Also, the laugh in "vesti la giubba", when done properly, can add so much
to underscore Canio's bitterness & self-deprication. This was subject of a
Met broadcast intermission a few years back. I believe Vickers was one of
the few tenors who opted to omit the laugh, for his own legitimate reasons.
Finally, I agree that the "era la notte" is the nearly perfect example of
music-drama ever composed. Warren did this number with absolute control &
mastery of mezza voce. I have not heard any baritone come close to his
interpretation & delivery of this particular piece.
Have a Happy New Year!
DonP.
donpaolo
played him as a rather likeable, nice guy - this way he fooled everybody.
However, when left alone for the credo, that veil was dropped & Iago showed
his true self - this was done by masterful physical acting combined with a
melifluous sound in his voice, which he did not use during the interactions
with the other characters. He employed this technique again at the end of
Act 3 when Otello faints or has a seizure - the mocking "Ecco il leone"
sent shivers up one's spine!
DonP
LuciaMim <luci...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981230035009...@ng-cc1.aol.com>...
> >-
> >I am turned off whenever the Iago guffaws in hilarity at the naughtiness
of
> >the
> >revelation "la morte e nulla e vecchial foll'al ciel".
> >-
> >Milnes falls into the trap -- but so does Warren. Gobbi and Valdengo
are
> >subtler in this role. I think the best of the role is found in the aria
"Era
> >la notte" and in the trio with Cassio and Otello.
donpaolo
just not conducive to strutting (the possible exception being Nabucco's
entrance). Now, if you accused Mario Sereni, the all-time strutter of
"roostering", I'd readily agree, but never Warren, who I found at my rather
young & naive age, to epitomize his characterizations: Iago, Rigoletto,
Barnaba, Macbeth, Tonio. There is just no opportunity or reason to be a
rooster in these roles.
Regards,
DonP.
dtritter <dtri...@bway.net> wrote in article
<36898BAB...@bway.net>...
> warren was a wonderful singer, but actor? ya gotta be kidding. he looked
> like a rooster who just found a mirror in the barnyard. having seen his
> performances in about a dozen or so roles, it is safe to say that not
> one characterization differed from the rest. but the voice? mashed
> potatoes, sure, but a unique sound that defined the term verdi baritone.
>
>
> dft
>
Librettist
New York next week with a lifetime achievement award.
He'll be there in person - very much alive.
Sally M. Gall
libre...@aol.com
GregF NC
>New York next week with a lifetime achievement award.
>
For some reason, he was on stage at the Kennedy Center Honors shown last night
- for Kander & Ebb. Anyone know why?
Greg F(in North Carolina)
Cherev
tu forse un uom?" in the Pagliacci aria. I think the silence there could be
devastating as long as the tenor fills it with the thought which leads to "Tu
sei PAGLIACCIO!" It's an acting challenge, but the payoff could be big if the
silence works. I'm sure Vickers was amazing as Canio.
The problem is that we all expect the laugh there. It would be more effective
as a surprise.
Kagami101
>yrs..He has lost total control of the passaggio and cannot negotiate his
>music..a fine potential....but never made it in the minds of those who are
>still aghast that he had a career of such success.
Ouch!!!!! Now don't hold back! Tell us how you REALLY feel!!! : )
Todd
Kagami101
>another singer to shreads. What is up with the need for this incessant
>deluge
>of critique????
>
Well, you know, we all have our favorite singers to bash. I love Di Stephano to
death, but that doesn't mean I will forgive him for making some amazingly
boneheaded mistakes when it came to using his voice.
All voices seem to have a "window" of time where they are in peak form. If
managed properly, they can have a long and fruitful life span (Gigli, Bjorling,
Merrill) or be a comet in the night sky (Di Stephano, Callas).
As to Sherrill, he had problems on and off during his career. At least he knew
when it was time to downgrade to roles like Falstaff. Some singers are not so
fortunate.
Todd
Kagami101
>discussing his vocal production,roles,basic technique...if you can..do
>it....then we wil lrespect your opinion....agree or not....does not
>matter.but
>'cool" says nothing about a singer.CH
And I thought we listened to opera because we liked the music! Silly me! : (
Todd
Kagami101
>that! Ask Anna Moffo.
I grew up listening to Anna's recordings from the 50's-mid 60's so I have a
good impression of her. I was too young to remember the "decline".
Todd
Kagami101
>>
>>Ed
>>
>
Well, he sang Elijah at Penn State about a year ago and did a masterclass. The
choir director was an old buddy of his from the Indiana days and asked him if
he wanted to do it, so he did.
I was not there, but the reports I got seemed to be good. If you don't expect
the Sherrill of 1970 you will be OK.
Todd
Kagami101
Bringing up that subject, I just watched a video of the MET's Bluebeard's
Castle with Sam Ramey and Jes Norman. Is it just me or did they intentionally
make up Sam to look like the cowardly lion in that performance?
Todd
Commspkmn
<<Well, he sang Elijah at Penn State about a year ago and did a masterclass.
The
choir director was an old buddy of his from the Indiana days and asked him if
he wanted to do it, so he did.
I was not there, but the reports I got seemed to be good. If you don't expect
the Sherrill of 1970 you will be OK.>>
I saw Milnes a few months ago as Gerard in the Pittsburgh Opera's production of
Andrea Chenier. He sang very well-much better than I would have expected. I'm
sure it's a day-to-day proposition at this point in his career, but on the
afternoon I heard him, no apologies were necessary.
Ken Meltzer