Worst / Best Singer
Lars Henriksson
Indeed makes suggestions of the sort, for ex. "greatest tenor of the 20th
century" (some critic considered Björling) "best Verdi tenor" (Blyth
suggested Carlo Bergonzi).
New Grove's, the music bible par excellence, also makes a few statements of
that sort.
But of course, they are silly, indeed stupid too (obviously).
I think that many of the "interesting questions" indeed might be
unanswerable. Such as the meaning of existence, free will etc.
But posing such questions is just plain dumb, of course. I forgot... Good
it's might not be in poor taste too. That would be really frightening.
I do think a very few singers might aspire to the title "the best". Again,
there might be "only" IMO's and IMHO's.
Nicolai Ghiaurov - the greatest bass of the 20th century. His only real
competition:his fellow Bulgarian: Nicola Ghiuselev.
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau - ditto (German) Lieder. No competition.
Jussi Björling - ditto tenor. Competition: to my ears Gigli and Domingo.
Birgit Nilsson - ditto Wagner (dramatic) soprano. Competition: Flagstad.
But I'm just a strange fanatic, perhaps. Not to mention probably a stupid
one. A good thing I retain some taste, at least...
Lars
Ivrys88 <ivr...@aol.com> skrev i inlägg
<19990522233914...@ng-cl1.aol.com>...
> "Lars Henriksson" <agnetha.h...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
> >This post is probably in poor taste, but any votes for the worst singer
of
> the century?
>
> It's not in poor taste, just as silly and unanswerable a question as:
"Who is
> the best singer of the century?"
>
David Shengold
"The greatest bass of the 20th century"
Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you will
admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition of which
Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of roles
along the way, bids fair for this title? He is like Callas, a singer of
genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
catergory. No such claim can be made for Ghiaurov.
I would also put forth Alexander Kipnis and Ezio Pinza in vocal terms as
having even finer voices than Ghiaurov.
The idea that *Ghiuselev*, while a fine enough singer, is #2 in competition
for "Best Bass of the Century", is grotesque. One might as well say the same
of Robert Lloyd or Bonaldo Giaotti or any number of other excellent but
hardly epochal singers.
David Shengold
----------
In article <01bea51c$18fdb4e0$b8cbf482@preinstalledcom>, "Lars Henriksson"
MarioB
>
> "The greatest bass of the 20th century"
>
>Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you will
>admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition of
which
>Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of roles
>along the way, bids fair for this title? He is like Callas, a singer of
>genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
>catergory. No such claim can be made for Ghiaurov.
>
>
>I would also put forth Alexander Kipnis and Ezio Pinza in vocal terms as
>having even finer voices than Ghiaurov.
>
>The idea that *Ghiuselev*, while a fine enough singer, is #2 in competition
>for "Best Bass of the Century", is grotesque. One might as well say the
same
>of Robert Lloyd or Bonaldo Giaotti or any number of other excellent but
>hardly epochal singers.
>
>David Shengold
>
an actress singer but not as a great singer.
I know this will bring irate defenders of MC to write indignantly in her
defense, but, as we say : IMHO.
I would also mention Tancredi Pasero up there with the best Basses of this
century.
Mario Berschadsky MD
GRNDPADAVE
Chaliapin's greatness and reputation stem, it seems to me, from 3 roles: Boris
Godunov, Mefistofele (both Boito and Gounod) and Don Baslio.
-
Ghiaurov has made an incredible mark in all aspects of bass singing (except for
Wagner). Ghiaurov has made his mark in DON CARLOS (both in Italian and in
French). I'd rate his Don Giovanni almost the equal of Cesare Siepi.
-
He is, imho, the outstanding Prince Gremin (EUGENE ONEGIN), top notch in
sub-principal roles such as Sparafucile, Colline, Ramfis.
-
What enables him to accomplish this I think is that his voice has both strength
(almost the equal of boris Christoff) and a velvety quality comparable to that
of Pinza.
-
But if we're talking great bassi, I think we'd have to include Mark Reizen,
Gottlob Frick, Martti Talvela, and others that have been mentioned.
-
Let's go easy on Lars. He has not touted too many non-Scandinavians. And even
in the peninsula, I think his tastes lean to the parochial -- preferring as he
does Nilsson to Flagstad.
-
Nevertheless, I find this an idle game since none of us wants the same meal
repeatedly served up.
-
Ghiaurov may have been a great Boris, but I couldn't say given the kind of
syrupy production he is served up in via Von Karajan.
-
==G/P Dave
william d. kasimer
>
> "The greatest bass of the 20th century"
>
> Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you will
> admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition of which
> Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of roles
> along the way, bids fair for this title? He is like Callas, a singer of
> genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
> catergory.
Not much disagreement, but I doubt that many would call Callas "the
greatest soprano of the 20th century". She and Chaliapin might
share the title of "greatest singing actor/actress of the 20th
century", though.
> I would also put forth Alexander Kipnis and Ezio Pinza in vocal terms as
> having even finer voices than Ghiaurov.
Among others, including Reizen, Sibiriakov, Pasero, and de Angelis.
Bill
--
William D. Kasimer
wk...@mindspring.com
wk...@juno.com
Ivrys88
>I agree with you totally except for the importance of Maria Callas. Maybe as
>an actress singer but not as a great singer.
I know this will bring irate defenders of MC to write indignantly in her
>defense, but, as we say : IMHO.
How about IMNSHO: in my not-so-humble opinion? ;-)
Seriously, David Shengold wrote:
Callas, a singer of
>genuine historical importance, who changed everything in [her] voice
>category.
You can call her an actress-singer if you like, but the above assessment cannot
be gainsaid. A fact in the Placido21 tradition... :-)
emma_...@my-dejanews.com
"David Shengold" <shen...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
> "The greatest bass of the 20th century"
>
> Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you
will
> admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition
of which
> Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of
roles
of
> genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
> catergory. <
Just for what it's worth Kipnis had a lot of contempt for Chaliapin who
he thought was both a ham and at best a bass-baritone, not a true bass,
with a smallish voice. Pinza on the other hand adored Chaliapin (as did
Caruso, Toscanini and Boito who was at Chaliapin's Scala debut in
Mefistofile). I think Chaliapin is like Callas in the sense he is
totally unique. No one else sounds that way, no matter what. It's not a
question of whether in one sense or another, other basses have sounded
more imposing in a particular role. It's that everything Chaliapin's
sound touches is transformed someway. For my taste, much as a I love
the live Covent Garden Boris highlights, it is the many song records
which are so magical (just for one example, Rubenstien's "By the banks
of the Kir"). I saw Ghiaurov duel Ghuiselev live both at the old Met
and in Phila in Don Carlo (the first was Philip). They were pretty
impressive. And for about five years Ghiaurov had an astounding sound --
I'll never forget the spontaneous cry that went up at his Philly debut
when he thundered "Ave Signor" at the start of Mefistofile. Moreover,
while he didn't always sing artistically, he could. There is a Don
Carlo act three (in the four act version) from Vienna. It's on a
Melodram 2 CD set devoted to Christa Ludwig. But Ghiaurov sings "ella
giammai m'amo" live as magically as I've ever heard it anywhere, anyhow
and I include Plancon and Pinza (and Siepi was no slouch either) --
legato, an immense dynamic range, mesa-di-voce, glorious words, you
name it, it's there. The bass voice died like all other voices around
1970. Scandiuzzi? Prestia? Robert lloyd? The various living Russians
(though Vaneyev is loads of fun)? Jimmy Morris? Sam Ramey? Please.
There's a film of Norman Triegle in the Revival Scene from Susannah --
let me tell you, in grainy black and white -- he comes leaping out of
the tube and grabs you by the throat. And he was more bloodcurdling in
person and that was some voice. Ramey, IMHO is an above average
Angelotti (his best role), the Silvio Maionica of our time, save Silvio
had a brain and some temperament. So it seems a little silly to be
debating Christoff, Siepi, Ghiaurov, William Wilderman (a wildly
underrated singer with an amazing voice), Frick, Petrov, Nesterenko (on
a slightly lower level), Hines, Tozzi, Zaccaria who were all around at
the same time.
Emma Albani
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
David Shengold
Well, IMNSHO, Ghiaruov is no Don Giovanni either.
Plus which Chaliapin was a Leperello! And made a great reputation not only
in the roles you mention but as Philip in DON CARLO (Met 1920), Dosifei in
KHOVANSHCINA, Konchhak and Galitzky in PRINCE IGOR, Glinka's Ivan Susanin
and Farlaf, and various roles by Dargomyzhsky, Serov and Rimsky. Plus
Massenet's DON QUICHOTTE.
Similarly, Mary Garden made her reputation not only in the roles we remember
(Louise, Melisande, Thais) but the likes of Fiora and Jean le Jongleur.
And BTW, while I wouldn't claim Callas' as the soprano *voice* of the
century, with all due respect to Melba and Destinn and Flagstad and Ponselle
and whomever ("Why on earth wasn't our own Isobel Baillie mentioned?"-THE
EDITOR), it is hard to think of a soprano who has so profoundly affected the
opera world more.
David Shengold
----------
In article <19990523150153...@ng-fa1.aol.com>,
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
>Let me say a word on behalf of Ghiaurov. Chaliapin was no Don Giovanni.
>Chaliapin's greatness and reputation stem, it seems to me, from 3 roles: Boris
>Godunov, Mefistofele (both Boito and Gounod) and Don Baslio.
>-
>Ghiaurov has made an incredible mark in all aspects of bass singing (except for
>Wagner). Ghiaurov has made his mark in DON CARLOS (both in Italian and in
>French). I'd rate his Don Giovanni almost the equal of Cesare Siepi.
>-
>He is, imho, the outstanding Prince Gremin (EUGENE ONEGIN), top notch in
>sub-principal roles such as Sparafucile, Colline, Ramfis.
>-
>What enables him to accomplish this I think is that his voice has both strength
>(almost the equal of boris Christoff) and a velvety quality comparable to that
>of Pinza.
>-
>But if we're talking great bassi, I think we'd have to include Mark Reizen,
>Gottlob Frick, Martti Talvela, and others that have been mentioned.
Ed Rosen
<wk...@mindspring.com> writes:
>David Shengold wrote:
>>
>> "The greatest bass of the 20th century"
>>
>> Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you
will
>> admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition
of which
>> Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of
roles
>> along the way, bids fair for this title? He is like Callas, a singer
of
>> genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
>> catergory.
>
>greatest soprano of the 20th century". She and Chaliapin might
>share the title of "greatest singing actor/actress of the 20th
>century", though.
>
>> I would also put forth Alexander Kipnis and Ezio Pinza in vocal
terms as
>> having even finer voices than Ghiaurov.
>
>Among others, including Reizen, Sibiriakov, Pasero, and de Angelis.
>
>Bill
And I would have to add Cesare Siepi. The greatest bass voice I have
ever heard. He will always be the greatest to me.
Ed
Lars Henriksson
big voices, which is why I prefer Ghiaurov to Christoff. I think it's safe
to say that Ghiarurov's voice was considerably larger than Christoff's, as
well as smoother. I must say that I find Christoff gritty at times,
although he often is considered an incredible artist.
Pinza, Talvela and Salminen are of course eminent basses, as well as Frick,
Matthias Hölle, Siepi, Kipnis and Chaliapin. For Chaliapin I think his
artistry and not the voice qua voice is what makes him great.
Another probable numero uno: Hans Hotter in Wagner bass-baritone parts,
especially Wotan.
Lauritz Melchior (another Scandinavian, sorry) as a Wagner tenor, although
I think Windgassen's Tristan (at least the third act) reigns supreme.
Domingo is excellent as Walther von Stolzing, a role Melchior never sang to
my knowledge, and Tannhäuser, Lohengrin, Parsifal and Siegmund.
For the Wagner sopranos: Behrens, Norman, Helga Dernesch and Varnay are all
excellent.
I still don't consider it "silly" to talk about the "best" singers. My post
"Re: Worst / Best singers" was largely rather ironic and / or sarcastic, it
should be pointed out. I had no intention of demeaning myself... It's
always interesting to see how tastes differ, though!
My placing two Swedes at the top of two categories might be a parochial
approach, but they are on the other hand the only two I could rate as "the
best". I've said before that I often prefer Domingo's timbre to Björling's
because it's less "metallic". They both have stunning upper registers.
Well, all the very best,
Lars
GRNDPADAVE <grndp...@aol.com> skrev i inlägg
<19990523150153...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
> Let me say a word on behalf of Ghiaurov. Chaliapin was no Don Giovanni.
> Chaliapin's greatness and reputation stem, it seems to me, from 3 roles:
Boris
> Godunov, Mefistofele (both Boito and Gounod) and Don Baslio.
> -
> Ghiaurov has made an incredible mark in all aspects of bass singing
(except for
> Wagner). Ghiaurov has made his mark in DON CARLOS (both in Italian and
in
> French). I'd rate his Don Giovanni almost the equal of Cesare Siepi.
> -
> He is, imho, the outstanding Prince Gremin (EUGENE ONEGIN), top notch in
> sub-principal roles such as Sparafucile, Colline, Ramfis.
> -
> What enables him to accomplish this I think is that his voice has both
strength
> (almost the equal of boris Christoff) and a velvety quality comparable to
that
> of Pinza.
> -
> But if we're talking great bassi, I think we'd have to include Mark
Reizen,
> Gottlob Frick, Martti Talvela, and others that have been mentioned.
> -
> Let's go easy on Lars. He has not touted too many non-Scandinavians.
And even
> in the peninsula, I think his tastes lean to the parochial -- preferring
as he
> does Nilsson to Flagstad.
> -
> Nevertheless, I find this an idle game since none of us wants the same
meal
> repeatedly served up.
> -
> Ghiaurov may have been a great Boris, but I couldn't say given the kind
of
> syrupy production he is served up in via Von Karajan.
> -
> ==G/P Dave
>
>
Benjamin Maso
Lars Henriksson wrote in message <01bea51c$18fdb4e0
>
>Nicolai Ghiaurov - the greatest bass of the 20th century. His only real
>competition:his fellow Bulgarian: Nicola Ghiuselev.
Ghiaurov is a very good bass with a beautiful voice and an imposing stage
presence. His weakest point is his monotonous, almost mechanical rhytm,
which makes his singing often slightly dull. He doesn't have the dramatic
impact of Chialiapin, the imaginiation and expressive means of Kipnis or the
stunning technique of Plancon. I also prefer the voice of Pinza. But all the
same a fine singer. Better than Ghiuselev, no doubt, which makes him one of
the two best Bulgarian basses of the post war era.
>Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau - ditto (German) Lieder. No competition.
When I started listening to Lieder, I loved DFD and bought piles of records
of his. Then, one day, I heard Heinrich Schlusnus' inifnitely moving
recording of Mahler's Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, and I began to have
my doubts. Slowly I began to realize that there was an aspect in DFD's
interpretation that I didn't like at all, i.e. his "didactic" way of
singing. It is as if he is always pointing to almost any detail for fear
that his listeners would miss it. Just the way a teacher is explaining a
text to not very clever pupils. Since then, I widely prefer singers who are
leaving something to the imiagination of their audiences expressing the
words in music in an often far more subtle way, for instance Lotte Lehmann,
Hans Hotter, Gerhard Huesch, Karl Erb or Aksel Schiotz (and some other
tenors!!).
Benjo Maso
Lars Henriksson
were what made him great, not his voice qua voice. I think quite a few
basses have / had better voices than him. You're right: he did initiate a
splendid performance tradition, as did Callas.
I think Kipnis and especially Pinza had splendid voices, better than
Shaliapin, but IMHO Ghiaurov and even Ghiuselev had even finer ones.
Christoff I consider gritty, and his voice wasn't very large either (I
don't agree with Signor Dave here)
I think Nicola Ghiuselev is very much underrated. In Les Huguenots I find
his singing stunning; this might be his best part. His voice is just plain
gorgeous to my ears here, huge and still smooth. IMHO he steals the show in
this recording from such eminent singers such as Sutherland, Arroyo,
Bacquier and Cossa (and I'm not alone in this opinion). Of course he hasn't
made such a huge impact on the operatic world as some other basses, but I
don't think it's absurd to make him a contender. I'm "in love" with his
voice obviously (as with Ghiaurov's), so I might be biased, though. He did
not command a very large variety of rôles, and his Colline, for example,
isn't up to the supremely high standard set by his Marcel.
Well, "chacun a son gôut",
All the best,
Lars
David Shengold <shen...@pobox.upenn.edu> skrev i inlägg
<7i9egl$shv$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>
> "The greatest bass of the 20th century"
>
> Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you will
> admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition of
which
> Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of roles
> along the way, bids fair for this title? He is like Callas, a singer of
> genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
> catergory. No such claim can be made for Ghiaurov.
>
>
> I would also put forth Alexander Kipnis and Ezio Pinza in vocal terms as
> having even finer voices than Ghiaurov.
>
> The idea that *Ghiuselev*, while a fine enough singer, is #2 in
competition
> for "Best Bass of the Century", is grotesque. One might as well say the
same
> of Robert Lloyd or Bonaldo Giaotti or any number of other excellent but
> hardly epochal singers.
>
> David Shengold
>
>
> ----------
> In article <01bea51c$18fdb4e0$b8cbf482@preinstalledcom>, "Lars
Henriksson"
> <agnetha.h...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
DS445
Chaliapin was a personality, larger than life. For sheer voice, well it's a
close match, there are several. Kipnis, Sibiriakov, Pinza, Pasero, Siepi come
immediately to mind. Perhaps Reizen and De Angelis. Of the German? Aside
from the Russian Kipnis who bestrode both repertoires, there was Gottlob
Frick;, a great instrument by any standards. Maybe Ludwig Weber?
I am surprised however that no one mentioned the Spaniard Jose Mardones. Many
who sang with him, including Ponselle and Martinelli called him the greatest of
them all.
I do agree with Ed Rosen, there has not been a great bass voice since Siepi and
Ghiaurov. Ghiaurov (who continues to sing) had a rather short prime. Siepi
never seemed to lose it. And I will agree, for sheer presence and personality,
there ain't no one today who can come close to Norman Treigle. Now he was a
character. Definitely the successor to Chaliapin in that department.
Don
Lars Henriksson
Freni? That's the "Ave Signor" of a lifetime...
I've heard of the Ghiuselev / Ghiaurov "duel". Tell me more!
Best wishes,
Lars
emma_...@my-dejanews.com skrev i inlägg <7i9q2c$onh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> In article <7i9egl$shv$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
> "David Shengold" <shen...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
> >
> > "The greatest bass of the 20th century"
> >
> > Me again, Lars. No matter how highly you esteem Ghiaurov, surely you
> will
> > admit that Fedor Chaliapin, who initiated the performance tradition
> of which
> > Christoff and Ghiaurov are both exponents and created a number of
> roles
> > along the way, bids fair for this title? He is like Callas, a singer
> of
> > genuine historical importance, who changed everything in his voice
> > catergory. <
>
Lars Henriksson
of Schlusnus and Hotter, as well as Anders. Not the neurotic Angst and
Weltschmerz of DFD, which along with the latters didactic approach indeed
can repel some people.
Of the basses you mention, I love Pinza, although I have to say I haven't
heard that much with him. I've never caught on to either Shaliapin or
Plancon. Kipnis is fine, better than Christoff IMHO.
I must say that my placing Ghiuselev at that supremely high level is mostly
due to his Marcel in Les Huguenots. I think he steals the show here from
such superb singers such as Sutherland, Arroyo, Bacquier and Cossa.
Maybe I hold him in such high regard because he's the bass who most
resembles Ghiaurov! Perhaps not very objective...
I find your opinions very interesting, by the way. You obviously possess a
wider knowledge than I do. I could perhaps need to "kill my darlings".
All the best,
Lars Henriksson
Benjamin Maso <benj...@euronet.nl> skrev i inlägg
<7i9rrj$hft$1...@beast.euro.net>...
>
> Lars Henriksson wrote in message <01bea51c$18fdb4e0
> >
> >Nicolai Ghiaurov - the greatest bass of the 20th century. His only real
> >competition:his fellow Bulgarian: Nicola Ghiuselev.
>
David Shengold
I would add Boris Shtokolov to Emma's list of 1960s and 70s bass eminences:
one of the best bass voices I've ever heard as Basilio at the Kirov 1980,
and he apparently drank it away by the time I went back nine years later;
though he did Dosifei to good notices at a smaller company not long ago.
I would second the acclaim for the underrated William Wildermann, excellent
in his particular Fach of Hagen, Daland and the like.
I would however say that Moll and Salminen, at least, carried forward great
bass singing beyond 1970!
David Shengold
P.S.I noted the passing reference to Dominic Cossa (almost as alarmingly out
of place in a starry HUGUENOTS cast as poor Mr. Vrenios-- couldn't London
Records locate Robert Massard??) as "an eminent singer"!! I would place
this decent, affable baritone in the pantheon with Richard Fredricks and
Enrico di Giuseppe- honorable journeymen. City Opera could certainly use
their like today.
dtritter
>
> For the Wagner sopranos: Behrens, Norman, Helga Dernesch and Varnay are all> excellent.
>
silly though all this thread may be, the notion of putting the first
three in the same sentence with varnay ought to bear a severe criminal
penalty.
dft
Ed Rosen
<agnetha.h...@swipnet.se> writes:
>
>Hi Emma. Have you got Boito's Mefistofele with Ghiaurov / Pavarotti /
>Freni? That's the "Ave Signor" of a lifetime...
Sorry, but Ghiaurov was already way past his prime when this was
recorded in, I think, 1982. He is alright, but just compare him to a
younger Ghiaurov on the highlights he recorded in the mid 60's. It
also features Ligabue, and, I think, Franco Tagliavini.
Here- Ghiaurov is stupendous. If he had maintained this type of all
out, thrilling singing for perhaps 20 years, this could have been the
bass of the century. It is one of the great pieces of basso singing
recorded in the LP era. He is fearless and thrilling.
Later, he became careful and somewhat boring and wooden.
Is anyone else familiar with this mid 60's LP of highlights?
Best,
Ed
G Riggs
<7i9q2c$onh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>The bass voice died like all other voices around
>1970. Scandiuzzi? Prestia? Robert lloyd? The various living Russians
>(though Vaneyev is loads of fun)? Jimmy Morris? Sam Ramey? Please.
I can see your point when it comes to the matter of the sheer
*quantity* of rich-sounding bassos before 1970. Having
personally heard Ghiaurov, Siepi, Hines etc. all during the 60s,
there was definitely a cornucopia of these sonorous, pliant
wonders around at that time.
Please understand I am writing of sheer intrinsic vocal plush,
apart from artistry.
Having grown up appreciating, in depth (n.p.i.), these
fabulous voices, and having been a hopeless Siepi buff (and
an avid owner of many a Frick recording, etc.), I have to say
I was truly amazed the first time I heard Matti Salminen at
the Met.
Please, I'm sincerely curious. Just as an example, would
you really consider Salminen (in terms of his sheer
instrument) just as dismal a step down from the "vocioni"
of the 50s and 60s as the other basses of his (and our
current) generation? Or might you concede Salminen's
native endowment as a happy exception to those of his
present (bass) colleagues, however lonely?
Conversely, if you find Salminen more (drearily?) typical
of this generation after all, is it still the case that you
*literally* can not find *anybody* at all today (perhaps
Kurt Moll, whom I do admire in certain roles? perhaps
you could expand a bit on Vaneev, whose Boris I found
gripping in the theatre IMHO and whose artistry you
apparently respond to as well, even though we're talking
of innate vocal goods?) who even approaches some of
the immediate post-war bass sounds of a Siepi or a Hines?
Please understand, it needn't be either Salminen or Moll
(though I'm curious as to your assessment of those two
voices); just anyone whom you might regard as an
exception to today's sparse landscape in '99.
Respectfully yours,
Geoffrey Riggs
--
==============================================
The Collector's Guide to Opera Recordings and Videos
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/7023
The Collector's Guide to Books on Opera
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/7023/reading.htm
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andre35
have it around somewhere, and regularly listen to the cassette I made of
it in my car. Ghiaurov blew me away, in the sense of impending doom his
music imparted. I will never forget my reaction to the first hearing of
the opera and Ghiaurov. Would that the rest of the cast approached his
artistic level. Thanks for bringing up old memories.( It was Franco
Tagliavini.)
Best
Andy
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Sun, May 23, 1999 19:00 EDT
>Message-id: <37488882...@bway.net>
Dear dft,
I happen to think Astrid Varnay was a superb singer -- even apart from Wagner.
She sang a beautiful Amalia in a Met BOCCANEGRA. Therefore, I am at a loss why
you would not rank her -- as Lars has -- with other first rate singers.
All the best,
==G/P Dave
P.S. Why criminalize a variance from your opinion? You should find it amusing
and take pity on those of us are not endowed with your impeccable taste
Ivrys88
Dear dft,
>I happen to think Astrid Varnay was a superb singer -- even apart from Wagner.
>She sang a beautiful Amalia in a Met BOCCANEGRA. Therefore, I am at a loss
why
>you would not rank her -- as Lars has -- with other first rate singers.
I believe the spirit of Mr. Tritter's comment is that the other three are not
fit to be mentioned in the same breath with Astrid Varnay, whose
accomplishments are beyond question.
emma_...@my-dejanews.com
highlights LP from the mid 60's (never on CD) is amazing. I even dat-ed
it so I could blast it over and over (I am very ashamed that I adore
Mefistofile, I confess it every day, promise not to sin and go right
back. My very favorite is the Epilogue as thundered by Nazzareno De
Angelis, Melandri and the Scala Chorus. I have it on '78 and while I
also have three CD pressings, the 78 still gives the idea of the
immensity and abandon of this singing, and Nazzareno is just
incredible).
Melodram published the Philly Don Carlo on CD where Ghiaurov and
Ghuiselev decided to settle any Bulgarian Civil War which happened to
be going on at the time. Though the sound is poor, you get the idea.
There is also an in house Met tape. Guiselev was booed by some where I
was standing. I thought he was pretty amazing. I made my grandfather
take me to Hartford Conn (well, he actually wanted to go) so we could
hear them again with Corelli (every high C that could possibly be
interpolated was). It waren't art but Good God, was it sound! By the
way, I was playing for various voice teachers in Philly at the time and
studying myself. One of the teachers was Else Fink (I know, I know)
lover of Josef Schmidt who had sung on stage with the older Chaliapin,
Pinza and Kipnis as well as the Bulgarian tenor Mazaroff, Gigli,
Piccaver and Pertile and many others. She told me that night in Philly
had the most thrilling male singing in one performance she had ever
heard.
You can get the Philly Mefistofile where Ghiaurov literally blew
everyone away on Mike Richter's CD-ROM called "Odd Opera". I'd get it
immediately. That performance sounds as awesome there as I remember.
I must say I also love the Carnegie Hall Mefistofile with Ghiaurov,
Bergonzi and my only Goddess Tebaldi. At the time standing there )they
had standing room then) I was disappointed as only a snot could be. But
I listened to it recently on a Legato CD and cried. Ramey (who got to
record it twice) is a big joke. Forget De Angelis, Ghiaurov and
Cristoff and Siepi, just compare Giulio Neri! I will say for the
Muti/Ramey recording, it is very excitingly conducted. By the way,
while I don't love Triegle on record, he was astounding live (vocally
too)as Mefistofile.
Of course David Shengold is right to mention Shtokolov (sp?) -- I only
have that LP and I think one reel-to-reel but he's amazing. And I'm
glad he mentioned Moll and Sallinen. I just heard the latter in Don
Giovanni in Zurich, as the Commendatore. In that size house he was
amazing. I saw Moll sing 5 Osmins twenty years ago at the Met with
astounding beauty, clarity of pitch and ease throughout that entire
crazy range, his trills and runs were immaculate (and he held one trill
for thirty seconds) AND he was hilarious. While I adored Siepi as
Gurnemanz and got one Hotter performance in Vienna where he had asthma
but just had to move an arm for one to want to faint, Moll has been
wonderful on many occasions in that role, too. And I think Frick is
quite moving on the (otherwise IMO iffy) Solti recording.
Cfehlandt
>recorded in, I think, 1982. He is alright, but just compare him to a
>younger Ghiaurov on the highlights he recorded in the mid 60's. It
>also features Ligabue, and, I think, Franco Tagliavini.
>
>Here- Ghiaurov is stupendous. If he had maintained this type of all
>out, thrilling singing for perhaps 20 years, this could have been the
>bass of the century. It is one of the great pieces of basso singing
>recorded in the LP era. He is fearless and thrilling.
>
>Later, he became careful and somewhat boring and wooden.
>
>Is anyone else familiar with this mid 60's LP of highlights?
>
>
>Best,
>Ed
I've got that one, Ed. And NG is indeed magnificent. I would say that his only
weak spot was/is the low register, where his sound thins out compared to Siepi,
Pinza and other "bassi cantanti."
Carl F.
Andrade Santos
Nesterenko, Ferrucio Furlanetto, Robert Lloyd,
Matti Salminen, etc...
d'andrade-santos*operabass&musicologist
a.sa...@ip.pt
GRNDPADAVE wrote in message
Lars Henriksson
nega" from around 1965, and I pretty much prefer the 80 (82?) version. He
also sings the low F's "come scritto" in the later version.
That highlights LP / CD (?) sounds interesting...
Lars
Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> skrev i inlägg
<7ia2j6$i...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>...
> In <01bea564$54501680$7bf2f482@preinstalledcom> "Lars Henriksson"
> <agnetha.h...@swipnet.se> writes:
> >
> >Hi Emma. Have you got Boito's Mefistofele with Ghiaurov / Pavarotti /
> >Freni? That's the "Ave Signor" of a lifetime...
>
>
Ed Rosen
<agnetha.h...@swipnet.se> writes:
>
>Mr. Rosen, I disagree. I've heard a rendering of the "Son lo spritito
che
>nega" from around 1965, and I pretty much prefer the 80 (82?) version.
He
>also sings the low F's "come scritto" in the later version.
>
>That highlights LP / CD (?) sounds interesting...
>
>Lars
Lars- You are certainly free to disagree, but find and listen to that
LP first. I think you'll change your mind. And BTW, the low notes in
Son lo spirito are G's, not F's.
I will say, however, that Ghiaurov's lower range did improve greatly
since the mid 60's. Back then it was really quite weak.
Best,
Ed