Singers who Destrpoyed Themselves
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially, that is) did
> all kinds of dumb things.. technically, emotionally, sexually...who
> knows why... and RUINED their careers... Here are some names... See if
> you agree:
>
> Elena Suliotis and Sylvia Sass (Imitated Callas and destroyed their
> really wonderful potential)
>
> Anna Moffo (After auspicious start, the technique totally went
> berserk... perche???)
>
> Giuseppe Di Stefano (for about 10 years, was the greatest tenor
> imaginable.. then changed his approach and opened up the voice to the
> point that he made a total DISASTER after around the early 60's. Should
> have been the "Gigli Successor' but never quite attained that
> level..... but GOD,was he fabulous early on!!!!)
>
> Jose Carreras (Even before the illness, pushed that fabulous voice
> unmercifully into heavy repertory.... just makes me cringe now.. but
> his early tapes are really glorious.. but when your best buddy is Di
> Stefano, what can you say?)
>
> Leontyne Price (Many disagree with me.. but after her sensational early
> years, she totally messed up her registers, could not handle the
> breaks, made the most horrendous unvocal "camp" sounds, and sang with
> unmitigated arrogance in ways that made me furious.. and yet, even
> recently, she showed some of the most glorious singing in history.. one
> of the strangest ladies..... one minute you want to shoot her.. the
> next, you fall at her feet...)
>
> Jose Cura (after all the hullaballoo about his bare chest, he sang a
> Met Turiddu that was disgusting.... voice is ugly, poorly produced, and
> he showed absolutely none of the potential I heard on his CD's.. I
> predict it will go totally in a few years.)
>
> Maria Ewing, Agnes Baltsa and June Anderson (What did these ladies do
> to themselves? Ewing was a lovely lyric mezzo, and Anderson reminded me
> of Sutherland at her best, and early Baltsa was thrilling, until she
> started to sound like she was being murdered in the low area.. and I
> adore chest usually... and as the years passed, they totally destroyed
> what they had.....
>
> (add some more???????)
>
> So let us hear from you..and keep it clean!!!!!!!
In approximate chronological order, Jess Thomas, René Kollo, Peter
Hofmann, Siegfried Jerusalem, and Reiner Goldberg. 'Nuff said!
Can you think of any singers who blew themselves out via jaw-wobbling?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Charlie
Singers who destrroyed themselves
Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman 04/14/00
Post new message in this thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Date: April 14, 2000 12:29 AM
Author: Charles Handelman (Plac...@aol.com)
Subject: Singers who Destroyed Themselves
Charlie Handelman. http://ourworld/compuserve.com/homepages.handelmania
What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially,that is) did all kinds
of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and RUINED
their careers...Here are some names...See if you agree:
Elena Suliotis and Sylvia Sass (Imitated Callas and destroyed their really
wonderful potential)
Anna Moffo (After auspicious start, the technique totally went
berserk...perche???)
Giuseppe Di Stefano (for about 10 years, was the greatest tenor
imaginable..then changed his approach and opened up the voice to the point that
he made a total DISASTER after around the early 60's.Should have been the
"Gigli Successor' but never quite attained that level.....but GOD,was he
fabulous early on!!!!)
Jose Carreras (Even before the illness,pushed that fabulous voice unmercifully
into heavy repertory....just makes me cringe now..but his early tapes are
really glorious..but when your best buddy is Di Stefano,what can you say?)
Leontyne Price (Many disagree with me..but after her sensational early years,
she totally messed up her registers, could not handle the breaks, made the most
horrendous unvocal "camp" sounds, and sang with unmitigated arrogance in ways
that made me furious..and yet, even recently, she showed some of the most
glorious singing in history..one of the strangest ladies.....one minute you
want to shoot her..the next, you fall at her feet...)
Jose Cura (after all the hullaballoo about his bare chest, he sang a Met
Turiddu that was disgusting....voice is ugly,poorly produced, and he showed
absolutely none of the potential I heard on his CD's..I predict it will go
totally in a few years.)
Maria Ewing,Agnes Baltsa and June Anderson (What did these ladies do to
themselves? Ewing was a lovely lyric mezzo,and Anderson reminded me of
Sutherland at her best, and early Baltsa was thrilling,until she started to
sound like she was being murdered in the low area..and I adore chest
usually...and as the years passed, they totally destroyed what they had.....
(add some more???????)
So let us hear from you..and keep it clean!!!!!!!
Charlie
(http://operanews.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=70362)
As ever Charlie,who invites you to check out my live opera website at:
Ivrys88
>What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially,that is) did all kinds
>of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and RUINED
>their careers...Here are some names...
Maria Callas is probably the patron saint of all great singers who shortened
their careers through unwise choices, in all the areas listed by Mr. Handelman.
Another obvious example who comes to mind is Ljuba Welitsch.
The Wagnerian arena is littered with voices ruined prematurely--Helga Dernesch
(though she retooled as a mezzo and kept going), Linda Esther Gray, and Roberta
Knie among sopranos, Peter Hoffman a notorious example among tenors.
With many of these artists, the sadness at their burnouts is nevertheless
tempered by the pleasure they gave during their brief primes--they were the
supernovas of opera, blazing briefly before extinguishing themselves. At least
recordings preserve much of their best work.
TColl65159
I`m surprised you mention Dernesch. she was singing quite late into her career
-she did Fricka at Covent Garden the ring before last, although as you say she
moved into mezzo territory,
Trev(UK)
Harpsichordist
>kinds
>>of dumb things.
>Maria Callas is probably the patron saint of all great singers who shortened
>their careers through unwise choices,
>The Wagnerian arena is littered with voices ruined prematurely-
Does this say something , perhaps, about the repertoire? Could one of our more
informed members delineate the course a voice should take during it's career?
Where does Wagner fit in? Which Verdi heroines, in which order? When in her
career does a soprano take on Brunhillde or Elektra? When does a tenor jump
from Almaviva to Cavaradossi to Alfredo to Tristan? I am just curious to hear
the answers. Does money drive it ? Does ego drive it?
Mark A. Slater
"Musica Pellit Curas"
Xennophon
boo-hoo --what a lovely singer he was
HenryFogel
>Charlie wrote:
>>
>> What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially, that is) did
>> all kinds of dumb things.. technically, emotionally, sexually...who
>>
>> Elena Suliotis and Sylvia Sass (Imitated Callas and destroyed their
>> really wonderful potential)
>>
>> Anna Moffo (After auspicious start, the technique totally went
>> berserk... perche???)
>>
>> Giuseppe Di Stefano (for about 10 years, was the greatest tenor
>> have been the "Gigli Successor' but never quite attained that
>>
>> Jose Carreras (Even before the illness, pushed that fabulous voice
>> unmercifully into heavy repertory.... just makes me cringe now.. but
>> Stefano, what can you say?)
>>
>> Leontyne Price (Many disagree with me.. but after her sensational early
>> breaks, made the most horrendous unvocal "camp" sounds, and sang with
>> recently, she showed some of the most glorious singing in history.. one
>>
>> Jose Cura (after all the hullaballoo about his bare chest, he sang a
>> predict it will go totally in a few years.)
>>
>> to themselves? Ewing was a lovely lyric mezzo, and Anderson reminded me
>> of Sutherland at her best, and early Baltsa was thrilling, until she
>> started to sound like she was being murdered in the low area.. and I
>>
>> (add some more???????)
>>
>> So let us hear from you..and keep it clean!!!!!!!
>
>Hofmann, Siegfried Jerusalem, and Reiner Goldberg. 'Nuff said!
>
To all that one might add Peter Dvorsky and Francisco Araiza, both of whom had
the potential to be wonderful lyric tenors for a long period of time, but both
of whom became leathery-voiced unsteady spinto singers.
I would disagree about Price -- she may have sung with an unusual technique and
an approach that put some off (not me), but she doesn't fall into the category
of singers whose voices were ruined. That gleaming top was too good for too
many years to put her into that category.
Henry Fogel
Klaas Oosterveld
>
>
>
>
>
> Singers who destrroyed themselves
>
> Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman 04/14/00
>
> Post new message in this thread
>
What do you think of Fritz Wunderlich who ruined his career by not buttoning his
shoe-laces on September 17th 1966?
Customoper
>Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman
When did this happen, Charlie. Sorry to hear it!!
Ed
For free catalog of live opera on CD, video, and audio cassettes, please e-mail
your name and mailing address.
james jorden
--
james jorden
jjo...@bellatlantic.net
http://www.parterre.com
"Gay people not only keep opera going,
they keep plays about opera going."
--- Bette Midler
leo wisselink
verismo cd was losing it. A pity, but maybe he can live on his bare chest?
Charlie <plac...@aol.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
20000414002939...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> Singers who destrroyed themselves
>
> Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman 04/14/00
>
> Post new message in this thread
>
>
>
> ------
>
> Date: April 14, 2000 12:29 AM
> Author: Charles Handelman (Plac...@aol.com)
> Subject: Singers who Destroyed Themselves
>
>
>
> Charlie Handelman. http://ourworld/compuserve.com/homepages.handelmania
>
kinds
> of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and
RUINED
>
> Elena Suliotis and Sylvia Sass (Imitated Callas and destroyed their really
> wonderful potential)
>
> Anna Moffo (After auspicious start, the technique totally went
> berserk...perche???)
>
> Giuseppe Di Stefano (for about 10 years, was the greatest tenor
that
> he made a total DISASTER after around the early 60's.Should have been the
> "Gigli Successor' but never quite attained that level.....but GOD,was he
> fabulous early on!!!!)
>
> Jose Carreras (Even before the illness,pushed that fabulous voice
unmercifully
> into heavy repertory....just makes me cringe now..but his early tapes are
> really glorious..but when your best buddy is Di Stefano,what can you say?)
>
> Leontyne Price (Many disagree with me..but after her sensational early
years,
> she totally messed up her registers, could not handle the breaks, made the
most
> horrendous unvocal "camp" sounds, and sang with unmitigated arrogance in
ways
you
> want to shoot her..the next, you fall at her feet...)
>
> Jose Cura (after all the hullaballoo about his bare chest, he sang a Met
showed
> absolutely none of the potential I heard on his CD's..I predict it will go
> totally in a few years.)
>
> themselves? Ewing was a lovely lyric mezzo,and Anderson reminded me of
> Sutherland at her best, and early Baltsa was thrilling,until she started
to
> sound like she was being murdered in the low area..and I adore chest
had.....
>
> (add some more???????)
>
> So let us hear from you..and keep it clean!!!!!!!
>
Commspkmn
kinds
> of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and
RUINED
> their careers...Here are some names...See if you agree:
> Leontyne Price (Many disagree with me..>>
Gee, I wonder why. Perhaps her career that spanned five decades might have had
something to do with that.
Ken Meltzer
Customoper
>
>Customoper wrote:
>>
>> >From: plac...@aol.com (Charlie)
>>
>james jorden
Yes, I think the role vas too heavy for him, you know.
Bart Thomas
Munch Damnation of Faust), who supposedly, disgusted with the Carmen
he was singing with,, handed her the knife in the last scene, saying
(very audibly) "Stab yourself, Bitch!" and stalking off the stage.
Wish I'd been there!
----> Bart
David Shengold
Actually, as I heard it he was upset with the conductor, and walked off
shouting to the pit, "Finish it yourself!" leaving the Carmen (Gloria Lane)
to commit suicide.
-David Shengold
David Walsh
I have never heard what it was in the young DiStefano's voice that led
to the position so many hold him in. In the studio recordings of
RIGOLETTO, BOHEME, PAGLIACCI, there is range and thrilling singing but the
voice has an odd tone now and then. No good way to convey it in writing
but sort of like the "a" in the word "pay." On the other hand, I have
heard some recordings he did in the '40s' and if I crank the sound up,
there is a clear, almost sweet but still operatic, tenor sound that
reminds me of what I hear when I crank up the early, post training in
Italy, John McCormack recordings. Is that what he was like in person? Can
you use some singer active today to give me some idea of what he sounded
like? I found such as Tucker, Corelli, Heppner, Pavarotti to be quite
different in person than on record and, no question, in person is better.
And their recordings are great!
Dave Walsh
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 04/14/2000 12:16 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.100041...@post.its.mcw.edu>
The nearest I have heard to the glorious Di Stefano sound (and I attended three
of his Met performances) is the young Jose Carreras.
At his best, and you can hear this in his recordings of LUCIA (Serafin), TOSCA
(De Sabata) and ELISIR D'AMORE (Molinari-Pradelli), there is a voice of smooth
almost velvet timbre, superb control of dynamics and ardent projection. As
beautiful a lyric tenor voice as I have ever heard.
==G/P Dave
MoorFan
>to the position so many hold him in. In the studio recordings of
>RIGOLETTO, BOHEME, PAGLIACCI, there is range and thrilling singing but the
>voice has an odd tone now and then. No good way to convey it in writing
>but sort of like the "a" in the word "pay."
This is why I disagree with the original poster, because the earliest
recordings available already demonstrate these open sounds that are alleged to
have destroyed DiStefano. He was singing this way from the beginning. I am
not so convinced that the use of open sounds alone will destroy a voice.
DiStefano's excesses in other departments may have also played a role here.
As far as what those fans of his (like me) admire, for me it is the beauty
of tone, of diction, and that special something in his voice. I find it hard
to quantify further than that. He was also the master of the diminuendo.
Regarding Cura, I obtained recently a video tape of him doing a concert in
a cathedral, in which he conducts some music, plays the piano, and sings. He
sang Ingemisco from the Verdi Requiem. Problems with his technique are
rampant. He does something before his high notes where he flares his mouth
wide, making an ugly sound, followed by the note he intends to hit. His top
notes lacked strength, and he was the picture of tension. His lower register
however, is quite dark and sensuous.
Regards,
MoorFan
Martha Brummett
>What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially,that is) did all kinds
>of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and RUINED
>their careers...Here are some names...See if you agree:
You don't even know about some, because they never got far enough...
doing drugs, dropping out of school or just the production, ruining
their voices to make money. I wouldn't call it dumb (applies to the
famous people you're talking about as well) but self-destructive.
Martha Brummett
Denver CO
Help the Cat Care Society:
http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=5902&mid=1327
Charlie
>
???I am now in my PRIME!!!!!!!I will be doing Nerone at Amato soon......Hope
you come!!CH
TJNORT
were sadly marred (and brought to a relatively early close) by vocal problems
which seem to have set in when each singer was in his early forties. (And
Tibbett's later years were also marred by a tragic alcoholism, which is
detailed in the later chapters of the biography DEAR ROGUE.)
frl_...@my-deja.com
few years an interesting heldentenor, but then switched back to baritone
without being a good one...
And what is to say about Hildegard Behrens? Or was she yet mentioned?
Frl. Meier
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ivrys88
>And what is to say about Hildegard Behrens? Or was she yet mentioned?
It might be that we're talking about two different kinds of singers. There are
those who only sang for a brief period before stopping completely, and others
who have had lengthy careers despite continuing unflattering evaluations of
their vocal estates. Behrens would seem to be in the latter category, as would
Gwyneth Jones. Coincidentally, these two are Wagnerian specialists. Is there a
pattern here?
And there are singers who had very public vocal crises who managed to recover
and continue, perhaps at a lower vocal range and/or with a lower profile than
before. You mentioned Vinay, I mentioned Dernesch as examples. Ashley Putnam is
perhaps another instance. She is still performing, but her career very
definitely crested some years back.
Don McConnell
>
There should be a special category for singers who wrecked their voices by
taking on roles where the result was worth the price. Before those
Brunnhildes began stripping her vocal cords (and even while it was
happening), Behrens gave us something really memorable: She showed us that
the valkyrie could be a believable character, even an essentially feminine
and poignant one. Watching her Brunnhildes (all three), I felt I understood
for the first time what Wagner might have had in mind; and I found it deeply
moving. In fact, I wasn't sure I wanted to see any other performances. The
Levine/Met videos, especially of the Immolation Scene, give some sense of
Behrens' power as an actress. (Very little of this comes across in the
recordings, by the way. Behrens is a visual, rather than a vocal, actress.)
But then, Eaglen's Gotterdammerung Brunnhilde last summer in SF made me
realize that there was a totally different kind of pleasure in witnessing
the role performed as Wagner must have imagined it vocally. The visual
aspect of it was comic -- Eaglen actually sat down for a while during the
Immolation Scene -- but hearing that lush voice rise so easily above the
orchestration without any forcing... It was as memorable as Behrens'
performance but in a totally different way.
To get back to my point, Behrens had a radiant voice that might still be in
good shape had she restricted her roles. But the world is richer for her
sacrifice on the altar of Wagner and Strauss.
frl_...@my-deja.com
Don McConnell <donm...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> To get back to my point, Behrens had a radiant voice that might still
be in good shape had she restricted her roles. But the world is richer
for her sacrifice on the altar of Wagner and Strauss.
>
a lot of "victims", Gwyneth Jones was mentioned, and Behrens, Silja's
voice is also nearly gone, and in the Heldentenor area it's even worse:
Jerusalem, Goldberg, Peter Hoffmann etc. On the other side, there are
singers who sing these roles constantly over years without ruining her
voices. I think of Kollo or - even if I know that she is not very well
loved in U.S. - Schnaut (and even if she is a bit unsteady). The
conclusion would be, that those who break the laws of their own voice,
who sing too heavy and too dramatic roles or who perform too oftenly,
are destroying their voices, while others can do the same roles
declining.
Do we have to look for the problem in the today's opera business, where
one is forced to do things too early, too fast, too oftenly? If you can
sell your good name - why shouldn't you do it? If it is only the name
that counts...
As a further reason I think that many of us have ideas how some roles
must be sung that are far too lyric, too soft. We are spoiled by
recording technique who allows nearly anything, who allows a lyric
soprano to sing Isolde (what Margaret Price did, as we know). So it can
be that lyric or spinto voices tend into the highly dramatic repertory
and ruine their voices??
Kind r
james jorden
> Has it to be a sacrifice - to do the heavy Wagner roles? Indeed we have
> a lot of "victims", Gwyneth Jones was mentioned,
Dame Gwyenth sang her first Wagner role in the early 1960's; she was
still singing Wagner over 30 years later. Her Elektra in New York in
1995 (I heard three performances) was stupendous. Yes, she has had some
off nights, but I would hardly call her a "victim."
> Silja's voice is also nearly gone
What do you mean by "nearly gone?" A poster to this group recently
remarked that Silja's voice as Herodias was far larger than Malfitano's
as Salome. Yes, she has a wobble, but let us also recall that she made
her operatic debut over 40 years ago.
VALFER
giving too much of their resources in a brief span of time. They remind me
of the poem:
'My candle's burning at both ends,
it will not last the night
But, oh my friends and oh, my foes,
It gives such pretty light!'
I would much rather shine briefly like a Callas, a Di Stefano, or a Carreras
than have a long and dim career.
Valfer
"Sic transit gloria" doesn't mean "Gloria threw up in the subway".
Charlie wrote in message <20000414002939...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>
>
>
>
>
>Singers who destrroyed themselves
>
> Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman 04/14/00
>
> Post new message in this thread
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>
>Date: April 14, 2000 12:29 AM
>Author: Charles Handelman (Plac...@aol.com)
>Subject: Singers who Destroyed Themselves
>
>
>
>Charlie Handelman. http://ourworld/compuserve.com/homepages.handelmania
>
Capa0848
>From: "VALFER" VAL...@email.msn.com
>Date: 04/15/2000 5:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <uICLhezp$GA.234@cpmsnbbsa03>
>
>I admire many of the singers here accused of shortening their careers by
>giving too much of their resources in a brief span of time. They remind me
>of the poem:
>
>'My candle's burning at both ends,
>it will not last the night
>But, oh my friends and oh, my foes,
>It gives such pretty light!'
>
>I would much rather shine briefly like a Callas, a Di Stefano, or a Carreras
>than have a long and dim career.
>
>
>Valfer
==================
Pretty close, but Edna St. Vincent Millay's poem goes:
My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah my foes, and oh my friends --
It gives a lovely light.
(Figs from Thistles)
You pose an interesting ethical question, though -- many athletes take
performance enhancing drugs that may have long-term detrimental consequences to
their health, just so they "can shine briefly" in their field of endeavor.
Is a moment, or a month, or a year of brilliant success worth the risk of a
career that *might* have been nearly as successful anyway?
I'm not so sure.
Best Regards,
Pat
Parlo pian. Non temere.
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
more enticing than his career. He was really a fine artist,
with a wonderful, rich voice, but he only sang with the Met
for one season. I saw him do a Rigoletto at Redlands (CA)
Bowl one summer (several years after his brief stint with
the Met) - even though he was so drunk he had trouble
standing, the singing was wonderful!
Ivrys88 wrote:
>
> plac...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially,that is) did all kinds
> >of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and RUINED
> >their careers...Here are some names...
>
> Maria Callas is probably the patron saint of all great singers who shortened
> their careers through unwise choices, in all the areas listed by Mr. Handelman.
>
> Another obvious example who comes to mind is Ljuba Welitsch.
>
> The Wagnerian arena is littered with voices ruined prematurely--Helga Dernesch
> (though she retooled as a mezzo and kept going), Linda Esther Gray, and Roberta
> Knie among sopranos, Peter Hoffman a notorious example among tenors.
>
> With many of these artists, the sadness at their burnouts is nevertheless
> tempered by the pleasure they gave during their brief primes--they were the
> supernovas of opera, blazing briefly before extinguishing themselves. At least
> recordings preserve much of their best work.
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
Symphony (way back when Herbert Weiskopf was its director)
did a semi-staged version of Aida. They started with local
singers, but then got Jose Ferrer (yes, the actor, but he'd
always dreamt of doing opera, ahd this WAS Beverly Hills,
after all) to sing Amonasro. The couple of local tenors
capable of Rhadames being unavailable, they hired Poleri.
The way he kept covering Aida's face (and mouth) with his
hand while she was singing her share of the last act duet,
I'm surprised she didn't BITE him! (In her place, I
probably would have!)
Bart Thomas wrote:
>
> Then there was tenor David Poleri (Pretty darn good - hear him on the
> Munch Damnation of Faust), who supposedly, disgusted with the Carmen
> he was singing with,, handed her the knife in the last scene, saying
> (very audibly) "Stab yourself, Bitch!" and stalking off the stage.
>
> Wish I'd been there!
>
> ----> Bart
>
> On 14 Apr 2000 14:49:04 GMT, comm...@aol.com (Commspkmn) wrote:
>
> ><< > What a pity that some of the GREAT singers (potentially,that is) did all
> >kinds
> >> of dumb things..technically,emotionally,sexually...who knows why...and
> >RUINED
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
somewhat. (That's okay, I guess - it's just that poets
spend a lot of time finding just the "right" word to convey
their meaning, so one should try not to change them.) Yours
is a fine sentiment if the singer is independently wealthy,
and sings purely for Art's sake - when it's a matter of
making a living, the "long and dim career" pays more bills!
VALFER wrote:
>
> I admire many of the singers here accused of shortening their careers by
> giving too much of their resources in a brief span of time. They remind me
> of the poem:
>
> 'My candle's burning at both ends,
> it will not last the night
> But, oh my friends and oh, my foes,
> It gives such pretty light!'
>
> I would much rather shine briefly like a Callas, a Di Stefano, or a Carreras
> than have a long and dim career.
>
> Valfer
>
> "Sic transit gloria" doesn't mean "Gloria threw up in the subway".
>
> Charlie wrote in message <20000414002939...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Singers who destrroyed themselves
> >
> > Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman 04/14/00
> >
> > Post new message in this thread
> >
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> >------
> >
> >Date: April 14, 2000 12:29 AM
> >Author: Charles Handelman (Plac...@aol.com)
> >Subject: Singers who Destroyed Themselves
> >
> >
> >
> >Charlie Handelman. http://ourworld/compuserve.com/homepages.handelmania
> >
Robert
as late in her career. I'm too young to have seen her, but
the video of her and Tito Gobbi in Act II of Tosca was made
late in her active career, and it's electrifying. Her
performance of Vissi d'arte shows you everything you ever
need to know about why this woman remains a legend; it also
proves (imho) that Callas was the greatest operatic
performer
of the second half of the twentieth century, and it wasn't
even her best role. Beverly Sills once said that a ten-year
career like Callas's is better than a twenty-year career as
anybody else. Oddly, a few other highly influential opera
singers didn't have traditionally beautiful voices: Jon
Vickers, Birgit Nilsson, Sir Peter Pears.
When all the dust settles, Maria Callas will be remembered
as
a great musician, first and foremost. Too many people don't
understand that every single choice she made as an actress
was based on a thorough knowledge of the score. Callas did
her best to observe every single marking in every score she
ever sang, and more than that, to make it come alive (de los
Angeles approached her roles in the same way: listen to her
Mimě or Cio-Cio-San while reading the score: great
performers
tend to reflect the composer's intentions rather than their
own).
So, I don't think that Maria Callas destroyed herself. She
gave so much to opera that we should all be perpetually
genuflecting.
I just wish that opera would go back to being about the
composer first, the singer second, and the conductor third.
With stage directors who work from the score rather than the
libretto, and set designers who understand that, while there
may be something about Mary, it is not all about them.
cheers,
Robert
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
frl_...@my-deja.com
ring, that here voice is stressed and forced and that she is going - as
we say in german - on her gum... It is like a tire of full rubber - no
springing, no suspension. By the way: I don't doubt that she was (and
maybe is still) a fascinating singer-actress.
The same more or less for Silja, but her voice was intact when she sang
Senta in the sixties - for example. Her lower register has never been
very strong, but it did exist. Listen to her Fricka under Dohnanyi in
the early nineties: There is nearly nothing in the lowest register,
around C or C flat. B at "Doch JETZT da dir neue Namen gefielen"
doesn't exist. At least I can't hear it.
But while she has lost the highest register and can no longer sing the
dramatic roles, she goes in the area of a Fricka, Klytemnestra and so
one. But without the deepness that would be necessary...
Also Silja was (maybe is still) a great singer-actress of course.
Kind regards from Frl. Meier
In article <38F90115...@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>,
jjo...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> Dame Gwyenth sang her first Wagner role in the early 1960's; she was
> still singing Wagner over 30 years later. Her Elektra in New York in
> 1995 (I heard three performances) was stupendous. Yes, she has had
some
> off nights, but I would hardly call her a "victim."
>
> > Silja's voice is also nearly gone
>
> What do you mean by "nearly gone?" A poster to this group recently
> remarked that Silja's voice as Herodias was far larger than
Malfitano's
> as Salome. Yes, she has a wobble, but let us also recall that she
made
> her operatic debut over 40 years ago.
>
> --
> james jorden
> jjo...@bellatlantic.net
> http://www.parterre.com
>
> "Gay people not only keep opera going,
> they keep plays about opera going."
> --- B
Shahrdad
Robert <rhollis...@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:04608828...@usw-ex0110-075.remarq.com...
> Maria Callas undoubtedly made unwise choices - early as well
> as late in her career.
The only unwise choice Callas made in her early career was the decision to
lose all that weight in that short a time, without being under the watchful
eyes of a doctor, a trainer, and a voice teacher. She learned her
technique--which was formidable by any account--while she was a plump girl
with the "strength of a young bull," as her husband said. She could support
her huge voice easily, and as long as she had this supporting power, she
could sing just about anything from the heaviest to the lightest role
without any strain. As one can clearly hear though, her voice changed as
soon as she lost the 80 pounds in less than a year, and the sound
progressively grew smaller and lighter, and the upper range shrank. And
it's only after the weight loss that a wobble began to appear in the upper
range.
The other terrible choice was Onasis, but that was her business, not ours.
And late in her career, she could have done magnificently as a mezzo, and
later on she could have done wonders with songs and lieder, but she was too
stubborn to admit to herself that she could never again sing as she did in
her youth. This unwise choice deprived us of a lot of music which only a
genius of her caliber could have given us.
S.
Wj598
>Senta in the sixties - for example. Her lower register has never been
>very strong, but it did exist. Listen to her Fricka under Dohnanyi in
>the early nineties: There is nearly nothing in the lowest register,
>around C or C flat. B at "Doch JETZT da dir neue Namen gefielen"
>doesn't exist. At least I can't hear it.
>But while she has lost the highest register and can no longer sing the
>dramatic roles, she goes in the area of a Fricka, Klytemnestra and so
>one. But without the deepness that would be necessary...
>Also Silja was (maybe is still) a great singer-actress of course.
>
>Kind regards from Frl. Meier
>
Two month ago I heard Anja Silja as Emilia Marty in Hamburg. Her voice didn`t
loose anything of her power, of her dramatic gesture of the deepness and of
her inner tention. The last time I have heard her was nearly twenty years ago
in the same role in Frankfurt and as Kassandra in Frankfurt too. That's a
miracle that her voice is still fresh and young and full of power.Some people
said already 30 years ago that she must loose her voice because she startet
singing the heavy roles as a "teenager". They were wrong.
Congratulation Ms. Silja
Best................... wolf(j)
james jorden
case that Callas's vocal decline was caused by singing out of her fach
and oversinging.
--
james jorden
jjo...@bellatlantic.net
http://www.parterre.com
"I'm a great believer in vulgarity. All we need is a splash of bad
taste. NO taste is what I'm against."
--- Diana Vreeland
frl_...@my-deja.com
I can't hear it. Sorry...
Frl. Meier
> Two month ago I heard Anja Silja as Emilia Marty in Hamburg. Her voice
didn`t
> loose anything of her power, of her dramatic gesture of the deepness
and of
> her inner tention. The last time I have heard her was nearly twenty
years ago
> in the same role in Frankfurt and as Kassandra in Frankfurt too.
That's a
> miracle that her voice is still fresh and young and full of power.Some
people
> said already 30 years ago that she must loose her voice because she
startet
> singing the heavy roles as a "teenager". They were wrong.
> Congratulation Ms. Silja
> Best................... wolf
Shahrdad
james jorden <jjo...@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:38FA2362...@mailbox.bellatlantic.net...
> Oversimplifed and full of conjecture. One can make just as convincing a
> case that Callas's vocal decline was caused by singing out of her fach
> and oversinging.
>
consistently steady, huge in volume, and steady throughout her range. There
are some strident upper notes, but never a wobble (which only showed up in
1954 right after the weight loss). Luckily, there are many live recordings
of her showing her vocal ease and versatility is a wide range or roles. Her
Elvira is as correct and well sung as her Lady Macbeth, and her Lucia is as
good as her Abigaile. And as for Wagner, the reviews of her performances
were consistently excellent, and the one extant evidence, Kundry, shows that
she had absolutely no difficulty with extremely heavy role either. If
anything, her voice became steadier and her singing more even from 49 to 53;
just compare her Mexico Trovatore of 1950 with her Scala one of 53. If
recorded roles are any evidence, she appeared to be neither oversinging nor
singing out of her fach. And then, in 1954, suddenly she sounds different.
. . .
Neville Frobisher
a deleterious effect on her singing. Mightn't there have been other factors
involved? Also, I was intrigued by your comment about (paraphrasing) her
having the strength to easily support her huge voice. This reads as though
you believe that a voice has actual weight, i.e., is acted upon by gravity.
Would you comment further on this point?
"Shahrdad" <Shah...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:uferDZ$p$GA.206@cpmsnbbsa03...
HelenMynrd
have been there and had many friends who lost weight and sang just as
beautifully as before. What might happen if she had kept the weight on could
have been exactly the same problem. Her technique was strange and the covered
sounds are hard on the vocal chords, I have found this to be true in the 40
years of teaching and 55 years of singing. I think that she made many mistakes
in her selection of music and continuing to sing the high soprano roles....She
probably was in a Mezzo catagory from the beginning with good high notes.... I
had high notes all over the place, but am no doubt a mezzo. In any
case.....why the controversy? She loused her voice up and that is the truth
with probably more reasons than one,. but don't think that the weight loss
thing is the big problem. I am tired of singers declaring that they HAVE to
stay fat to sing well..........just an excuse to eat and eat and eat. too bad.
Love and keep singing. HelenM
Shahrdad
I firmly believe that the main physiologic cause was the weight loss. As
anyone who has any knowledge of respiratory physiology could tell you,
obesity impairs proper respiration and can't be good for singing. It's not
the fat that makes a singer sing well, but it's the too rapid loss of weight
that hurts him. What I believe happened to Callas is that when she lost 80
pounds in less than a year, she also lost about 30 pounds of muscle along
with the fat; this is a well known fact of rapid weight loss through pure
dieting, as Callas did. How much of this muscle mass loss was from her
intercostals, abdominal, and flank muscles, God knows; but she surely must
have lost quite a bit of these accessory respiratory muscles. I think
that's why there is a sudden change in the sound, volume, and expanse of her
tone right in 1954, coinciding with the weight loss.
Looking at pictures of her during the fat years, one sees an upright
posture, relaxed shoulders, and no visible tension in the jaw and neck,
though this last part could be due to the chubby face and neck. By the late
50's, when she reportedly weighed 120 pounds, one notices a distinct forward
leaning posture, and shoulders which pull forward as she begins to sing.
There is also very visible tension in the neck and jaw muscles, all of which
become very rigid in the high register. By the early 60's, this forward
motion of the shoulders is even more marked. These are tell tale signs of
poor support, and I think they're due to supporting muscle-loss. Even
listening to the same aria, D'amor Sul ali, for example is revealing. The
Scala version from 1953 shows the voice to be large and generous, with firm,
ringing, spinning high notes, and the final note is supported perfectly on
the breath like a ball on a fountain. The 55 EMI version shows a smaller,
thinner voice, with more strident high notes, and the final note is held
much more "by the teeth" than on the breath.
What ever the cause, it is really tragic that such a musical and dramatic
genius was taken from us so soon.
s.
HelenMynrd <helen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000416214429...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
james jorden
What makes you insist that the "physiologic" (even the "main
physiologic") cause should be the proximate cause? Post hoc does not
mean propter hoc.
Many female singers, especially heavier voices who started early, run
into a very rough patch of singing in their mid-thirties. Callas added
to this rather common midlife "crisis" the fact that she was singing a
lot of very varied repertoire and was under enormous nervous strain
(much of it self-imposed, but still).
I particularly oppose the "if only she hadn't lost the weight" argument
because it is so often used by grossly obese singers and their enablers
to excuse weights of 300 lbs. or more. "If only she hadn't lost the
weight," Callas very likely would not have worked with Visconti, for one
thing, and therefore would never have achieved her magnificent synthesis
of vocal and physical performance.
I frankly think it is both trivial and selfish to "wish" that Callas had
just remained obese (and, let us recall, in miserable health as a
result) just so she could have had a fatter sound for your phonograph
records.
--
tmo...@my-deja.com
wj...@aol.com (Wj598) wrote:
>
> Two months ago I heard Anja Silja as Emilia Marty in Hamburg. Her
voice
didn`t
> lose anything of her power, of her dramatic gesture of the deepness
and of
> her inner tension.
I can confirm this: she was thoroughly convincing as Emilia Marty.
Maybe even more surprising was her appearance in a concert in Munich in
December, where she was scheduled to sing Schoenberg's Erwartung, while
two other sopranos had to sing excerpts from Strauss and Berg operas.
The singer who should have sung the final scene of Salome had been
brought to the hospital a few hours before the concert and Silja
accepted to replace her and to add the scene to her programme.
It was absolutely electrifying, not what can be called "perfect", but
certainly unforgettable.
Thanks forever, miss Silja
Thierry
bgnew...@my-deja.com
jjo...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
> I do not deny that weight loss is *a* factor in Callas's vocal
decline.
> What makes you insist that the "physiologic" (even the "main
> physiologic") cause should be the proximate cause? Post hoc does not
> mean propter hoc.
>
> Many female singers, especially heavier voices who started early, run
> into a very rough patch of singing in their mid-thirties. Callas
added
> to this rather common midlife "crisis" the fact that she was singing a
> lot of very varied repertoire and was under enormous nervous strain
> (much of it self-imposed, but still).
...though the crash diet, at exactly that riskiest of times for any
such drastic physiological move, then, might have been the tipping
point.
> I particularly oppose the "if only she hadn't lost the weight"
argument
> because it is so often used by grossly obese singers and their
enablers
> to excuse weights of 300 lbs. or more. "If only she hadn't lost the
> weight," Callas very likely would not have worked with Visconti, for
one
> thing, and therefore would never have achieved her magnificent
synthesis
> of vocal and physical performance.
It's not an object lesson in the dangers of weight loss per se, and
shouldn't be presented that way. If anything, it's an object lesson in
the dangers of crash dieting, a crude, oversimplified, and inefficient
means of losing weight. Grossly obese singers who claim otherwise
should be informed of more gradual techniques of losing weight,
involving exercise and selective dieting, under medical supervision if
necessary, that won't result in loss of that valuable muscle mass along
with the fat.
Though perhaps such techniques hadn't emerged, or at least weren't
generally known, in Callas's day...
[snip with apologies to all]
--
Brian Newhouse
newh...@crisp.net
(who, being constitutionally skinny, admits to no experience with
dieting)
MD
Telramund in the 1964 Bayreuth LOHENGRIN opposite Varnay. He's magnificent,
with crackling diction and steely, black tone, perfectly appropriate to the
character. And anyone who can hold their own against the formidable Varnay
in the Act 2 duet is more than acceptable! A superb, under-rated singer is
Vinay, again, in my opinion.
frl_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Perhaps we should refer in this list also to Ramon Vinay, who was for a
> few years an interesting heldentenor, but then switched back to baritone
> without being a good one...
>
> And what is to say about Hildegard Behrens? Or was she yet mentioned?
>
> Frl. Meier
>
Grant Menzies
>Well of course, it's all a matter of personal taste, but listen to his
>Telramund in the 1964 Bayreuth LOHENGRIN opposite Varnay. He's magnificent,
>with crackling diction and steely, black tone, perfectly appropriate to the
>character. And anyone who can hold their own against the formidable Varnay
>in the Act 2 duet is more than acceptable! A superb, under-rated singer is
>Vinay, again, in my opinion.
And he was one sexy-sounding Tristan, in my not so humble
opinion........ :-)
Grant
>frl_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Perhaps we should refer in this list also to Ramon Vinay, who was for a
>> few years an interesting heldentenor, but then switched back to baritone
>> without being a good one...
>>
>> And what is to say about Hildegard Behrens? Or was she yet mentioned?
>>
>> Frl. Meier
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
Grant Menzies
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Il faut choisir
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
JKauff001
joybam...@my-deja.com
Hills Symphony, but by the Beverly Hills Civic Opera Association,
who engaged the BHS to play for their "Aida" produciton.
Jose Ferrer never SANG anything in this opera. He was an enormous joke,
but a sad one, as the poor guy desperately wanted to sing opera. Here he
was such a fine actor, making such a fool of himself. I believe the
only other opera he ever did was "Gianni Schicchi". The only rehearsal
he ever came to was the dress, where he turned up in a terrific leopard
skin he'd borrowed from the Fox wardrobe department. He declined to
sing at the dress, claiming a cold. When the "show" opened, he just
sort of talk/"sang" his way through the part. He was awful (and anyone
who saw him in "Man of La Mancha" some years later knows what I mean.)
The only reason Ferrer knew about the company was because he had been
the nextdoor neighbor of the original director (who, however, was long
gone from the company by the time "Aida" was done). That director was
replaced by another whose idea of action was "wave those palm fronds!"
It was in general, an interesting if slightly hysterical experience.
We had a quite good (and very loud) local tenor for Radames, but they
felt they needed a "name." Mario del Monaco, the musical director's
friend and an honorary board member of the company, not being, uh,
available, they dug up Poleri. Poleri had gotten on the outs with so
many companies, he was willing to stoop this low. He behaved nicely,
however, I thought. I didn't know about the covering the soprano's
mouth! I don't remember how he sang. It must not have been gawdawful,
or I would remember.
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I think Poleri just didn't like sopranos. The Beverly Hills
> Symphony (way back when Herbert Weiskopf was its director)
> did a semi-staged version of Aida. They started with local
> singers, but then got Jose Ferrer (yes, the actor, but he'd
> always dreamt of doing opera, ahd this WAS Beverly Hills,
> after all) to sing Amonasro. The couple of local tenors
> capable of Rhadames being unavailable, they hired Poleri.
> The way he kept covering Aida's face (and mouth) with his
> hand while she was singing her share of the last act duet,
> I'm surprised she didn't BITE him! (In her place, I
> probably would have!)
>
>
BBCOpera
Pauline Viardot seems to the point:
"Happy are the fiery natures which burn themselves out, and glory in the sword
which wears away the scabbard"
Gerald Fitzgerald uses this quote in his book, "Callas - The Art and the Life"
Master Disk
Klaas Oosterveld <k.oost...@gelrevision.nl> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
38F70F54...@gelrevision.nl...
> Charlie schreef:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Singers who destrroyed themselves
> >
> > Singers who Destroyed Themselves Charles Handelman 04/14/00
> >
> > Post new message in this thread
> >
>
buttoning his
> shoe-laces on September 17th 1966?
>
dtritter
Master Disk wrote:
>
> and was an alcoholic?
> Klaas Oosterveld <k.oost...@gelrevision.nl> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
> 38F70F54...@gelrevision.nl...
this unsubstantiated rumor has been floating around here for a long
time, and has never been seconded by anyone who knew wunderlich. the
question mark is correctly there. now let's hear from someone who knows
firsthand. my sources include at least two colleagues who vehemently
deny it. as to the shoelace tale, a different version from one who was
there states simply that the railing pulled of the wall as he turned to
say goodnight to a friend below.
why do these things take on a life of their own.
stravinsky loved to quote an old russian proverb: unless you're in the
same room, holding all four feet, you don't know.
not bad advice, i'd say.
dft
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dtritter
VALFER
a poem (albeit short) from my very imperfect memory. But, I never meant to
equate a truly dedicated artist to a foolishly drug-driven athlete. I would
have done a disservice to many of my most admired singers.
The concept of a career shortened by poor repertoire choices is a
fascinating subject. The most important consideration is the conflict
between art as business and art for its own sake. Not knowing what goes on
in a person's mind, we have to accept choices made as they come. I doubt
that a Callas or a Di Stefano would have cut back on the intensity of their
performances for the sake of a long career. In fact, it is safer to assume
that business considerations were not in their mind at all!
Therefore, the answer to your question is not for me to give, but for the
artists themselves.
Valfer
"Pues si es así y ha de verse
desvanecida entre sombras
la grandeza y el poder,
la majestad y la pompa,
sepamos aprovechar
este rato que nos toca,
pues solo se goza en ella
lo que entre sueños se goza."
"La Vida es Sueño" P. Calderón de la Barca
Here I go, again!
Capa0848 wrote in message <20000416001822...@ng-bd1.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: Singers who Destrpoyed Themselves
Ivrys88
<<But, I never meant to
equate a truly dedicated artist to a foolishly drug-driven athlete.>>
You did not do that, Mr. Finley did. I think the parallel is somewhat strained,
as you point out.
A more apt parallel would exist if there were some pill or drug that gave a
singer increased volume, range and security on top notes, but that would
shorten that artist's useful singing career and perhaps ruin his/her
health--sort of a vocal steroid. Now _that_ would pose a difficult ethical
dilemma, wouldn't it?
<<I would
have done a disservice to many of my most admired singers.
The concept of a career shortened by poor repertoire choices is a
fascinating subject. The most important consideration is the conflict
between art as business and art for its own sake. Not knowing what goes on in
a person's mind, we have to accept choices made as they come. I doubt that a
Callas or a Di Stefano would have cut back on the intensity of their
performances for the sake of a long career. In fact, it is safer to assume
that business considerations were not in their mind at all!>>
Probably not for them, but many young singers today are pushed into the wrong
repertoire, and consequent premature vocal ruin, precisely because of business
considerations--the promise of higher fees and more work for singing
harder-to-cast dramatic roles.