Baritones? Oh Where Art Thou..
Rowan Dean Beh
Baritones?Oh where art thou my beloved brothers?
With the three tenors as the flavour of the century, it's really hard
these days to find a good recording of a baritone singer, anywhere. It's
really quite a shame, especially because a good baritone singer, like a
high baritone, can reach those higher tenorial tunes with unadulterated
splendor, and can even ebb their way into the powerful vibrato of the
majestic bass voice. As a high baritone myself, it can be painfully
discourageing to walk into a the classical section of a music store, and
find no section labelled baritone- unlike my higher male counterparts, who
seem to enjoy labels every where they go- which appears to be the case in
every music store I go into.
What I'm after is a cool recording of a young baritone or high baritone
voice; something I can compare myself to and relish in; something I also
feel, as a singer, is important for ones development . Is there anyone in
this news group who can direct me to such a CD and provide me with the
address of a seller? If so, it would trully be much appreciated.
Besides, the baritone voice is the most abundant male voice type in
existence, and I think it's fair to say that the tenor voice cannot really
be compared to the beauty found in the timbre of the solo baritone voice.
Rowan. e-mail: B...@picknowl.com.au
Mike Richter
Rowan Dean Beh wrote:
>
> Baritones?Oh where art thou my beloved brothers?
> What I'm after is a cool recording of a young baritone or high baritone
> voice; something I can compare myself to and relish in; something I also
> feel, as a singer, is important for ones development . Is there anyone in
> this news group who can direct me to such a CD and provide me with the
> address of a seller? If so, it would trully be much appreciated.
The absence of recordings of such is real and unfortunate. That's one
reason that two of the singers featured with full LP's transferred on my
CD-ROM of Mostly Men are barytons martin. Andre Bauge was better known
for his work in films and operettas, but did sing Pelleas at the Opera.
Thomas L. Thomas (not to be confused with John Charles Thomas, also on
the disc) was not a success at the Met because his instrument was really
too light for that house; still, his Scottish and Welsh songs are
delightful so I put the latter onto the disc.
Mike
--
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
JohnnyO
In <01bc9b9a$0b00c540$394c18cb@default> "Rowan Dean Beh"
>really hard these days to find a good recording of a baritone
>singer, anywhere. It's really quite a shame, especially because
>a good baritone singer, like a high baritone, can reach those
>higher tenorial tunes with unadulterated splendor, and can even
>ebb their way into the powerful vibrato of the majestic bass
>voice. As a high baritone myself, it can be painfully
>discourageing to walk into a the classical section of a music
>store, and find no section labelled baritone- unlike my higher
>male counterparts, who seem to enjoy labels every where they
>go- which appears to be the case in >every music store I go into.
>
>baritone voice; something I can compare myself to and relish in;
>something I also feel, as a singer, is important for ones
>development . Is there anyone in this news group who can direct
>me to such a CD and provide me with the address of a seller? If
>so, it would trully be much appreciated.
>
>type in existence, and I think it's fair to say that the tenor
>voice cannot really be compared to the beauty found in the timbre
>of the solo baritone voice.
>
>Rowan. e-mail: B...@picknowl.com.au
Spoken like a true baritone. <g>
Thomas Hampson, Wolfgang Holzmair, Bo(je) Skovhus, and Simon Keenlyside
come to mind. As do Bryn Terfel, Vladimir Chernov, and Dmitri
Hvorostovsky. Since the baritone voice is generally divided into two
categories--light/lyric (the first four of the above-mentioned singers)
and dark/Verdi (the latter three)--I don't think you'll find too many
who sing both repertoires. Or if they can, they might
sing/sound/perform better in one rather than the other.
john
Karen Mercedes
Have you listened to any recordings by Stephen Varcoe? Here is an English
baritone with a decidedly tenorial timbre to his voice. Granted, he's
mainly a lieder/song recitalist, but it's definitely one of the brighter
baritone voices out there, with the top extension that you may be seeking.
He records mainly on Hyperion. I also haven't a clue whether he'd be
considered "young" any more.
Another baritone who might meet your criteria is Bo (Boje) Skovhus. I've
been impressed with Skovhus in opera, less so in recital or on his lieder
recordings. I "discovered" him on that wonderful recording of Lehar's DIE
LUSTIGE WITWE with Cheryl Studer and Barbara Bonney (DG with John Eliot
Gardiner conducting - *the* recording of this operetta). He is a
delightful Danilo - a baritenor role, which gives you some idea of his
vocal range and timbre. He seems to be a "pet" of both opera houses in
Vienna. I haven't heard his Don Giovanni (Sir Charles Mackerras, on
Telarc), but I quite enjoyed his Almaviva in LE NOZZE (Abbado conducting,
on DG).
Another young baritone you might want to listen to is Dmitri
Hvorostovsky. He has a brighter timbre to his voice than many of the
baritones (some of whom I think are really bass-baritones) coming up.
His solo recordings seem to concentrate - and beautifully so - on his
native Russian opera, song, and sacred repertoire. There's also a fairly
good recording by him of Eugene Onegin. It's a striking voice (and the
singer is also striking to look at), powerful and quite beautiful.
On the "darker side" of baritone voices, one
of my all-time favourite baritones - also not a youngster, but who cares?
- is Thomas Allen, another English baritone. This is definitely a darker
voice - more of what I think most of us have come to expect as "baritone
quality" (at least nowadays). But what a lush voice, and what a great
actor! His Don Giovanni (captured on video) is quintessential, as is his
Billy Budd (also available on video) - both signature roles for him. You
can also see him as Lescaut on video, in the lovely Covent Garden
production of MANON LESCAUT with Kiri Te Kanawa and Placido Domingo, and
again Allen is masterful in the role, both as a singer and an actor.
Two baritones that impressed me a lot when I heard them with the
Washington Opera last year were Hao Jiang Tian, a bass-baritone who seems
to be having quite a nice career (well deserved) and Carlos Alvarez, who
has a gorgeous voice and was wonderfully menacing as Gonzalez (the
villain) in IL GUARANY (another Domingo protege?). Both singers appear on
the CD of that opera (a silly opera with some good tunes). Hao Jiang Tian
also sang Samuel in UN BALLO at the Met earlier this year, and was also in
the Met's AIDA in March. Definitely not a "tenorial" baritone voice - as
I said, he's more of a bass. Alvarez, too, has the classic "darker"
baritone, but what a beautiful instrument.
I fear my other favourites who aren't actually dead (like Lawrence
Tibbett) can no longer be considered "young". Regardless, I
don't think there's anyone out there who can beat Jose van Dam at his peak
at Mozart opera or Mahler lieder, or Ruggero Raimondi for sheer power (and
a gorgeous voice). And there will always be a place in my heart for
Sherill Milnes at his peak.
Karen Mercedes
Sara Freeman
--
If you can't say anything nice about
anybody . . . come sit by me.
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <33DD82...@mindspring.com>, mric...@mindspring.com was
heard to remark...
>
>Thomas L. Thomas (not to be confused with John Charles Thomas, also on
>the disc) was not a success at the Met because his instrument was
>really too light for that house; still, his Scottish and Welsh songs
>are delightful so I put the latter onto the disc.
One thing I've been wondering about Thomas Thomas -- was his father, by
any chance, a piper?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
JR
Speaking of Leonard Warren, is anyone in this group familiar with the
anecdote concerning a performance featuring Warren where the audience
continued an ovation through an entire intermisson? I just can't
remember any other details, but I believe the speaker was the soprano
and the opera may have been Aida.
bar...@erols.com
>
>Baritones?Oh where art thou my beloved brothers?
>
> With the three tenors as the flavour of the century, it's really hard
>these days to find a good recording of a baritone singer, anywhere. It's
>really quite a shame, especially because a good baritone singer, like a
>high baritone, can reach those higher tenorial tunes with unadulterated
>splendor, and can even ebb their way into the powerful vibrato of the
>majestic bass voice. As a high baritone myself, it can be painfully
>discourageing to walk into a the classical section of a music store, and
>find no section labelled baritone- unlike my higher male counterparts, who
>seem to enjoy labels every where they go- which appears to be the case in
>every music store I go into.
>
> What I'm after is a cool recording of a young baritone or high baritone
>voice; something I can compare myself to and relish in; something I also
>feel, as a singer, is important for ones development . Is there anyone in
>this news group who can direct me to such a CD and provide me with the
>address of a seller? If so, it would trully be much appreciated.
>
> Besides, the baritone voice is the most abundant male voice type in
>existence, and I think it's fair to say that the tenor voice cannot really
>be compared to the beauty found in the timbre of the solo baritone voice.
>
>Rowan. e-mail: B...@picknowl.com.au
>
>
If you want to listen to a (relatively) young baritone who excels in a
variety of repertoire, listen to the Welsh baritone Bryn Terfel. I
first heard his voice and artistry on his Deutsch Grammophon CD of
Schubert, which blew me away. Then there's his English art song CD,
"The Vagabond," a CD of opera arias, even a CD of Rodgers &
Hammerstein (the English isn't always perfect, since it's not his
first language, but what he does with the characters is fabulous).
And his complete recording of "Le Nozze di Figaro" is wonderful.
rl...@columbia.edu
I would also like to recommend CD recordings from Dmitri Hvorostovsky
and Bo Skovhus. Skovhus especially, if you are interested in
listening to various lieder from Wolf, Korngold, Schumann, and
Schubert. Both are relatively young baritones who've made a name of
themselves throughout the world. I recently attended Bo Skovhus'
performance with the Mostly Mozart Festival in New York and his voice
was excellent in the lieder he sang even though the accompaniment
practically smothered his voice. Check out this page for my shrine to
my three favorite (bass) baritones.
www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strass/1038
Richard
rl...@columbia.edu
Robert Bromfield
I'd like to suggest some other young (mid-20s to early 40s) who're
enjoying acclaim, albiet more in Europe that the U.S. They include
Cornelius Hauptmann, Olaf Bar, Andreas Schmidt, Gilles Cachemaille,
Peter Kooy, Alastair Miles, Klaus Mertens, Gotthold Schwarz, and 28
year-old Ildebrando D'Arcangelo. The singlemost thing this group has in
common is extensive performance experience with the leading period
ensembles of the past 15 years. No doubt you've heard of these: The
Academy of Ancient Music, The English Baroque Soloists, Ensemble Baroque
De Lomges, The English Consort, The Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra, and the
Collegium Vocale, to name a few.
You may hear the splendor of the above mentioned baritones on some tthe
following recordings: D'Arcangello singing Creonte in Haydn's Orfer ed
Euridice (L'anima del filosofo ossia) Christohper Hogwood and The
Acadeny of Ancient Music, L'Oiseau-Lyre 452 668-2, 1997. Ms. Bartoli
sings Euridice. This is a wonderful production, and intelligent
casting.
Peter Kooy and Klaus Mertens can be heard as Jesus and the bass
soloists, respectively, on Ton Koopman's recording of Bach's St. Matthew
Passion, with The Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra and Choir, Erato
4509-94676-2. Koopman is using Mertens in his cycle through Bach's
comlete cantatas. Kooy works a lot with Phillippe Herrweghe and the
latter's Bach cantata recordings -- some on Virgin Classics, and on
Harmonia Mundi. These are truly wonderful recordings. They rival John
Eliot Gardiner's recordings on DG Archiv. Gardiner uses Olaf Bar,
Cornelius Hauptmann, and Stephen Varcoe in his Bach ouvre.
Hauptmann also sings the role of Publio on Gardiner's live recordings of
Mozart's La Clamenza di Titto, DG Archiv, 431806-2; and as La Voce in
Mozart's Idomeneo, DG Archiv, 431674-2, a live recording, too. And
check out Gardiner's Cosi, a live recording, with young and relatively
unknown cast. A truly infectious performance!
Andreas Schmidt, himself, sings for Gardiner. Schmidt a CD of Strauss
and Mahler orchersterleider in 1994 -- RCA Red Seal09026-61184-2 -- with
Cord Garben and the Radio-Sinfonie-Orchester Berlin. The is a
satisfying collaboration.
Olaf Bar can be heard as our musician in Kiri Te Kanawa's 1996 release
on Capriccio, London Decca, 444 405-2. Victor von Halem is a wonderful
treat as the bass La Roche. This production of Capriccio is truly
wonderful. Ms. Te Kanawa is in fine voice, as is the entire cast!
Olaf Bar teams up with Barbara Bonney, Anne Sofi Von Otter, and Kurt
Streit in Brahms' Liebelieder-Walzer, Op.52 and Neue
Liebesleider-Walzer, Op.65, and Schumann's Spanische Liebeslieder,
Op.138. The scored accompaniment for these songs is piano four-hands.
The four hands belong to Helmut Deutsch (Skovhus' collaborator) and
Bengt Forsberg (Von Otter's Greig lieder accompaniest). This is a live
1994 recording on EMI Classics, 5 55430 2. The chemistry in this
recital is something to experience, as is the care and attention the
singers give the songs.
Pavarotti lamented in 1986 or 87 that Americans [in general, myself
included -- to a point] prefer sopranos and mezzos. Well, he and two
other guys certainly shifted our ears, at least opened them a little
wider. If we open our ears a little wider still, perhaps the sound our
young baritones above will float in this direction across the pond. And
yet, there are a few young American bass/baritones catching our
attention. Who can forget Dwayne Croft's memorable Valentin in last
season's MET Faust? I can't.
Happy listening -- to all voices!
Robert -- rb...@columbia.edu
Sara Freeman
>As I'm sitting and reading this, I happen to be listening to a great
>starter CD of Thomas Hampson called "A Portrait of Thomas Hampson:
Arias &
>Songs from Bach to Zemilinsky." Teldec 4509-97463-2. It will give
you an
>idea of the broad scope of literature which Mr. Hampson has covered
(that
>is, a small idea).
>
>The disc jacket has an interview with Carla Maria Verdino- Suellwold,
a
>frequent research collaborator of Hampson's, which (interview) gives
an
>idea of the great lyric baritone's background and
>perspectives/philosophies. In the back, it also lists his discography
with
>Teldec.
>
>This, in my humble opinion, is the premier baritone of our time. If
some
>of you think he's overexposed, the overexposure is not undeserved. He
>satisfies both your young-baritone and high-baritone requests: I
believe
>he's only 41 and his top never ends (no replies or e-mails on this
last
>remark, please. this is an hyperbole).
>
>If you want to hear him go extra, extra high, take a listen to his
"German
>Arias" on Teldec. He actually sings "Winterstuerme wichen dem
Wonnemond" (a
>heldentenor aria) very well and very easily (baritones, don't try this
at
>home). Mind you, I understand he would never do this on stage; I'm
just
>trying to give an extreme example of what a HIGH baritone he is. And
yes,
>he is a baritone, not a lazy tenor.
>
>My whole point is, if you pass him up, you will be doing yourself a
great
>disservice, and when you do decide to take a listen to him, the
"Portrait .
>. . " CD, since it is essentially a sampler, might be a good start, as
a
>survey of Hampson's work.
>
>Nice to meet you all. This is my first contribution,
>Peter McHugh
>
Welcome to the newsgroup. I've got to say; however, alter hearing
Hampson both in person and on disc, he bores me to death.
Pmchughjr
P.S. I bought this CD at Borders. I've also seen it at Tower Records. If
you have any such major chains near you, you shouldn't have any trouble
finding this disc. The "German Arias" CD is equally accessible.
JSchaub2
Dave,
I'm not sure to whom the response that you typed was to go to, but I hope
it was not a very young singer. Gerard Souzay had a nice and "free and
easy" voice during the beginning of his recording career, but towards the
end, and really the middle of the career, he became more and more of a
nasal resonator type of singer. The true test of a singers abitlity and
technique is in the longevity of their career, and the style in which they
sing until the end. Also, if you are or were a baritone what were you
doing trying to emulate BASSES like Ghiaurov and Christoff.
You are right in your observation that most young singers should start out
in the song repertoire, as it teaches them the whole art of singing, the
line and legato, expressiveness, and interpretation to a degree that is not
possible in the larger-than-life world of opera.
One last thing... I love d. Hvorostovsky's voice, God help me, I've
admitted it.
sing pretty,
Jason
Dave Zechman
JSchaub2 wrote:
>
> Dave,
> I'm not sure to whom the response that you typed was to go to, but I hope
> it was not a very young singer. Gerard Souzay had a nice and "free and
> easy" voice during the beginning of his recording career, but towards the
> end, and really the middle of the career, he became more and more of a
> nasal resonator type of singer.
That's too bad; I haven't heard these later recordings. I don't know
the dates of the recordings (on LP) I heard in college (1987 was when I
was listening).
> The true test of a singers abitlity and
> technique is in the longevity of their career, and the style in which they
> sing until the end.
I partially agree.
The tenor soloist at my church is in his sixties and sounds much better
than the slightly younger tenor and baritone teachers at the local
university.
It's more complex than that though. Perhaps a singer WAS singing
"properly" when younger and sounded wonderful...then something changed.
There are enough stories of singers who expanded into roles that may
have "exhausted" a voice more appropriate for other repertoire. Also,
physical, emotion, lifestyle changes--whether conscious/intentional or
not--even injury could have affected so delicate an instrument.
Who was the tenor in Pavarotti's documentary about historic tenors that
he refers to as too open on the top. I believe it was DiStefano. I
just remember how incredibly beautiful I thought the tone was and then
Lucianno launched into his criticisms and explanations of how "covering"
the top notes protects the voice in the long run (or something to that
effect).
Do you think voices can be "broken" or damaged permanently? One of my
voice teachers (with a viable voice even in her 70s) said that when she
taught at Yale, I believe, so many young students had "broken" voices
due to poor training or "over"-training at an early age.
> Also, if you are or were a baritone what were you
> doing trying to emulate BASSES like Ghiaurov and Christoff.
Well, at the time I was a Bass, or a bass-baritone. My range either
moved up naturally (Sutherland as a mezzo, Melchior as a baritone) or
maybe I was always a bari and didn't know it. In any case, I was
working in a range similar to Osmin (Abduction from the Seraglio), f or
f# above middle C down 2+ octaves to low D or E. My top is a little
higher now and my bottom has moved up to a comfortable A a fifth above
those rumbling D's.
Developing my falsetto certainly had effects on my range. The higher I
worked my soprano (into what I refer to as the "Yma Sumac register" :)
or perhaps Mado Robin), the lower went my bass. However, none of the
voice teachers knew what to do with a sopranist, so I was--and still
am--on my own there.
Plus, I really "sang" along with whatever I was listening to at the
time. I say "sang" because even when not singing, my vocal apparatus is
empathetically working (I don't remember the correct clinical term for
this) for better or worse. Sitting next to a singer with poor technique
in choral settings kills my voice every rehearsal. I have yet to learn
what the most "natural" sound should be for my voice, outside the bias
of any one school of singing or teachers with a completely different
range.
Maybe I just think too much (like I talk/write too much).
Dave
Poor Dmitri, that we're ashamed to say we love him.
JSchaub2
>There are enough stories of singers who expanded into roles that may
>have "exhausted" a voice more appropriate for other repertoire.
yes, but look at Ludwig, who moved back into the mezzo rep. after having
tried the soprano stuff. It only blossomed her voice. what I meant to say
was that, outside of other influences, the best way to test a voice is
through longevity, and the ability to weather the storms that come with a
career in singing. A great singer knows their voice well enough to be able
to get through the slump in the early 30's that everyone experiences,
that's what makes them a great singer
.>Do you think voices can be "broken" or damaged permanently?
I would have to say yes, that there are some voices that I have heard that
there is no explanation for them except for the fact that they are damaged.
>(Sutherland as a mezzo, Melchior as a baritone)
In my opinion, one's voice doesn't change (at this early stage of the
game, and certainly not from mezzo to sop) but that one learns to use it better.
I also have a very extreme upper register to my falsetto, as a result of
being a boy soprano for eight years, and training and working as a
countertenor for three, I have a Queen of the Night that will make you die
laughing, but I find that if I overuse this part of the voice that it
throws my "natural" voice out of whack.
I find that Americans today _like_ poor singing, and look for it, as
opposed to the turn of the century, when we had some really hot talents,
and not people who pushed themselves into doing rep.that they are not meant
for.
I don't mean to be offensive, but to air my opinion, and garner
discussion, which is what I think this board is for, right?
Always looking for that high C,
JS
I do love Dmitri so, isn't that embarassing?
Dave Zechman
JSchaub2 wrote:
>
> I also have a very extreme upper register to my falsetto, as a result of
> being a boy soprano for eight years, and training and working as a
> countertenor for three, I have a Queen of the Night that will make you die
> laughing, but I find that if I overuse this part of the voice that it
> throws my "natural" voice out of whack.
>
As much as I enjoy an occasional foray into the alt-coloratura rep
(Queen of the Night, Lakme, etc.), I fear strain also. In the logic of
some schools of thought, if you can sing a note badly, it's in your
capacity to sing it well using better technique. Do you agree with that
logic? I'm not sure. My voice coach in college was a chocolate-voiced
mezzo but could vocalise above high C--though I'm certain she would
never perform such notes.
I just really want 100% clarity on what I can do healthily with my
voice, viable for performance and of some relative vocal endurance.
I've read the Spanish soprano falsettists--in direct competition with
the castrati--had short-lived voices. If the alt register is unhealthy
no matter what technique I'm using, I will refrain--except of course for
occasional entertainment value--as I mostly do now for fear of strain.
I suppose the only answer is vocal training with another sopranist, but
how do I know if that training is "correct" for my voice. There is so
much controversy and I'm so wary. (That and how much money will it cost
my already strained budget?)
And when working on falsetto rep, should one refrain from baritone so as
not to confuse or wear the voice? If so, how contrary would the natural
baritone speaking voice prove?
The bulk of my knowledge is intellectual, theoretical rather than
applied. I have no doubts of my mental acumen, it's my physical
instrument that needs coddling. Have you taught voice or studied vocal
pedagogy? There are so many bad teachers around, how do I know which
are the good?
>
> Always looking for that high C,
The six in the Allegri "Miserere Mei, Deus" are among my favorite :)
> JS
>
> I do love Dmitri so, isn't that embarassing?
You can't have him, he's all mine! Those "ochi chorniye."
Dave