Booing the villains at curtain call
A. Brain
call.
The mother-in-law in Katya Kabanova and the Grand Inquisitor in Don Carlo
are, to be sure, evil and malevolent. Both performers excelled in their
portrayals.
Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this.
There are other operatic "villains" whom I have never seen booed for their
effectiveness. Perhaps because they are not totally evil? (Don Giovanni
being the most obvious example)
Any other parts that routinely draw this kind of back-handed acknowledgment?
--
A. Brain
Remove "nospam" when replying via email
REG
opera but at theatre performances, where the "bad guys" are booed by the
audience, all in a sense of fun of course.....it seems to me a relatively
new trend, and to an extent begins to worry me about what's changing in
terms of the makeup of audiences....
It all kind of reminds me of the things kids do when they go to the theatre,
it's a way of creating "audience participation", and I wonder if it's
another reflection of the fact that people aren't really going to the
theatre or live performances of any kind any more with the older, more
conventional values of seeing the work performed, and admiring the
performers, if possible, but if it reflects a much simplified appreciation
of what's going on on stage. In essence, I THINK that the audiences that
engage in this kind of participation are saying that their ability to
distinguish the good from the bad character is about as sophisticated as
they get, and so they are not really able to understand either whether the
performance is a good one, of the subtlely of the role peformed - I GUESS I
can see that reaction to the grand inquisitor, but not to Don G - what a
simplification of his character...how can we think the libretto is meant to
be so black and white.
I can't really articulate this better at this moment, but my question is
whether, in trying to keep their heads above water financially, arts
organizations have ended up so broadening their base that it's now just
entertainment in the basest sense, and people aren't much understanding
what's going on on stage.
"A. Brain" <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
news:b%8I6.2164$in5.1...@nnrp2.sbc.net...
Cub driver
If so, Scarpia certainly ought to be booed.
I've never had that experience, but I well remember how startled I
was, as a youngster attending my first play, to hear the audience
*applaud* the villain, whose behavior I had regarded as reprehensible.
all the best - Dan Ford (email: war...@danford.net)
The Only War We've Got (Early Days in South Vietnam)
http://danford.net/onlywar.htm
Siegfried Pinkerton
> Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this.
I never saw witnessed this kind of reaction in Paris (where I live),
thankfully ! What a moronic reaction, is opera becoming some kind of
circus, or sitcom, or what ??
--
Siegfried Pinkerton
* Musik ist eine heilige Kunst *
Mark D. Lew
<Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I can't really articulate this better at this moment, but my question is
> whether, in trying to keep their heads above water financially, arts
> organizations have ended up so broadening their base that it's now just
> entertainment in the basest sense, and people aren't much understanding
> what's going on on stage.
First of all, I would suggest that by booing a villain the audience is
demonstrating that it is MORE engaged in the action on stage, not less.
Second, I fail to see what's so bad about this. Opera *is* entertainment.
What's so wrong about having a little fun at the opera? You may as well
complain when the audience laughs at a buffo characters.
Any performer with acting experience knows how to milk the boos and turn
them into friendly applause (though I'm not sure how well this would work
in a big house where much of the audience can't see his face very well).
mdl
Tauser
Our sophisticated contributor from Paris might well reflect that the golden era
of opera in the 19th century produced the claque, a tradition far more ignoble
than those expressing their spirited reactions to an artist's protrayal.
It is also interesting how in the early cinema, villains were booed just with
the same enthusiam that villains were booed in melodramas.
Tauser
VocediVendetta
"What a moronic reaction, is opera becoming some kind of circus, or sitcom, or
what??
------------------
Yes. Next they'll be hawking hot dogs, peanuts and popcorn in the aisles
except these same morons will probably be too busy talking on their cell phones
during the music to notice.
REG
audience's mind (????).
"Nonix" <no...@netcom.invalid> wrote in message
news:9cscb5$lmh$1...@news.panix.com...
> REG <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> : I've frankly begun to see some of this for the first time this year, not
at
> : opera but at theatre performances, where the "bad guys" are booed by the
> : audience, all in a sense of fun of course.....it seems to me a
relatively
> : new trend, and to an extent begins to worry me about what's changing in
> : terms of the makeup of audiences....
>
> Perhaps the audience now includes people whose only previous experience
> with "theater" has been pro wrestling.
>
REG
tragic hero (ines). Is Don Giovanni the proper subject of boos (if you think
that kind of thing is appropriate)? Donna Elvira didn't agree, and neither
does the libretto, IMHO. Maybe they should boo the count in Figaro, or Zia
Principessa in Suor Angelica...how about Turandot if she comes out for a bow
at the end of the second act?
I guess I would say that while booing may show some kind of involvement, it
's the involvement of a 5 year old with cartoons...I don't think we're
getting anywhere if you can't tell the dancer from the dance.
And yes, I think opera should be fun...come on Mark, that's not a fair
comment.
"Mark D. Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
Matthew B. Tepper
<20010503200438...@ng-fg1.aol.com>:
And members of some social club (say, named after those guys who ride
racehorses) will insist on arriving late and will want a ballet to watch.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Hoof-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
FIDEL CASTRO
says...
Allow me to join the fray. In the 19th-century it was COMMON PRACTICE for the
ordinary opera fan to arrive at the theatre HOURS EARLY with lots of food and
booze. The carryings-on in the galleries would make today's opera attendee feel
like he was at a football match in Sheffield. And there were plenty of hawkers
in the theatres as well. The audience made a CONTINUAL DIN and was quick to
voice its dipleasure or approval. Maybe it's about time that we went back to the
good old days of UNPRETENTIOUSNESS, NATURALNESS and LIFE! There were no
AUTOMATIC encores or curtain calls either. The performers had to earn it.
Just my 2 cents!
A. Brain
performer does a fine job with a role, he or she should be greeted with
applause, even if the role was an evil character. Yet some roles,
especially if done really well, seem to draw the boos, as if the singer
really was the character. Maybe it's the ultimate compliment.
I have remarked here before that Bryn Terfel, singing the "dark" roles in
Hoffman at the Met last year, drew laughs in the most evil part of the
opera--when Dr. Miracle was haunting and harassing the young girl, Antonia,
to her death. Something definitely went wrong there, the opposite of booing
the villains at curtain call.
Whatever the reason for the "booing", it seems that only a few roles draw
it. And it does seem to be
acknowledgment of the effectiveness of the portrayal of an evil character
(so far not that many; I mentioned the mother-in-law in Katya Kabanova, the
Grand Inquisitor in Don Carlo; someone else suggested Scarpia from Tosca.
There have to be others.)
Pinkerton is not a "villain" in Butterfly--at least not completely a
villain. Just a typical jerk.
Don Giovanni is not a total villain either; in fact he is heroic in some
respects. Though I have seen some portrayals of him as a psycho.
The devil, for example, in Mefistofele or Faust, should be as evil as any
character in any opera. I have never seen him booed. Perhaps it is the
admittedly paradoxical "complexity" or "ambiguity" of the role.
What about some tenor villains? Monostatos in Magic Flute comes to mind.
The witch in Hansel and Gretel (sometimes a tenor)?
And speaking of Flute, does the Queen of the Night ever get booed?
Or Salome? (Or is hers a "youthful indiscretion"?)
There have to be some villains who get boos at the end of those dark Wagner
operas....anyone? Or is everyone so pleased that the damn thing is finally
over that no one feels like booing? :)
--
A. Brain
Remove "nospam" when replying via email
"VocediVendetta" <vocediv...@aol.com> wrote in message
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lav...@webtv.net
Ivan Lalis
episode Sense and Senility where Prince George calls for militia when an
actor (was it Mr Keenrick or Mr Mossop?) is "killed" on stage. BTW I
also read an article about applauding, originating in Wagner Bayreuth
circle (after his death), where the author required that "killed" singer
should not stand up and bow at the end of Act (or come for a curtain
call if they were killed sooner). Pretty much the same nonsense.
Ivan
moonglow
(They seemed to love it!) But what really shocked me was that the audience
laughed when the dance tune continues right after the shot is fired.
--
iok...@home.co
Some people think denial is a scene from Aida.
A. Brain <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
news:b%8I6.2164$in5.1...@nnrp2.sbc.net...
Xise
consider it a very bad habit, but unfortunately, it is becoming popular.
The best reactionI have seen by a singer, was not too long ago here in Miami
when they were doing Katia Kabanova. The young Canadian mezzo who was singing
the villain, came out at curtain time. The crowd started booing her and she,
very discreetly stuck out her tongue at them.
She got a standing ovation.
Regards,
Ximena
Roger D. White
"...what really shocked me was that the [Un Ballo] audience laughed when
the dance tune continues right after the shot is fired."
I always find this a little funny, myself. Incongruity is the foundation
of humor, and the idea of a band monotonously carrying on a
(deliberately-written) banal little tune right through the drama and
noise of an assassination *is* incongruous, and could be interpreted as
funny, or, as Verdi no doubt intended, tragically ironic.
What's the old saying" "Life is a comedy to those who think; a tragedy
to those who feel."
~ Roger
David Spence
: can be.
: A. Brain <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote:
: Twice this year at HGO, the villains in the opera have been booed at curtain
Siegfried Pinkerton
> << What a moronic reaction >>
>
>
> Our sophisticated contributor from Paris might well reflect that the
> golden era of opera in the 19th century produced the claque, a tradition
> far more ignoble than those expressing their spirited reactions to an
> artist's protrayal.
At least the claque had the excuse of being paid for it !
VocediVendetta
"In the 19th-century it was COMMON PRACTICE for the ordinary opera fan to
arrive at the theatre HOURS EARLY with lots of food and booze."
----------------
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know all about the Jockey Club in Paris and I know the
lights were on full blast, and people played cards in their boxes, ate, drank,
talked, etc etc etc. However, we're not living in the 19th century anymore and
that tradition died out a long time ago. IMO people booing opera "villains" in
2001 are ridiculous, disruptive and behaving like unchaperoned 8 year-olds at a
Saturday afternoon kiddie movie matinee. This sort of behavior from adults
merely demonstrates the level to which the audience has "dumbed down".
I don't entirely reject the operatic tradition of booing a bad performance (and
in my lifetime I've even seen a few vegetables thrown onto or at the stage) but
"booing the villain"? Sorry. Moronic and infantile.
VdiV
Mark D. Lew
<Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not so sure you're right here at all - booing is for the bad guys, not
> tragic hero (ines). Is Don Giovanni the proper subject of boos (if you think
> that kind of thing is appropriate)? Donna Elvira didn't agree, and neither
> does the libretto, IMHO. Maybe they should boo the count in Figaro, or Zia
> Principessa in Suor Angelica...how about Turandot if she comes out for a bow
> at the end of the second act?
I wasn't addressing the tangential discussion of which characters qualify
as true villains, only topic of the subject line, which is booing the
villains. I don't see any of the characters you mention as villains, but if
the nature of the performance is such to inspire such a reaction, the
argument is the same.
I don't feel that booing a villain is right or wrong, per se. I am,
however, very disturbed by the implication by some on this thread that
audience members who do such a thing are inconsiderate, disrespectful,
immature or stupid.
Opera is about telling a story in a way which engages the audience member
in many different ways -- the music, the libretto, the voices, the visual
display, etc. When it works, the listener becomes wrapped up in the story
and the characters, and feels like he or she is sharing in the experience.
Curtain call is the time for the audience to release the energy and
excitement which has built up within them.
Whether an opera is comic or tragic, serious or fun, the purpose of
performance is always to move the audience in some way. The curtain call is
an important part of that process, and it belongs to the audience.
Performance is a two-way communication, but the audience doesn't really get
its turn to speak except at curtain calls. Applause can be gratifying to
the performer, of course, but the real purpose of the curtain call is the
gratification of the audience.
It's obvious whether booing is meant out of genuine disapproval or
enthusiastic support of a villainous character. During the show, one might
object to various audience reactions for reasons of decorum or
consideration to others trying to listen or see. But curtain call is the
time for the audience to let go and express their feelings spontaneously
and without inhibition. Usually this takes the form of applause. Sometimes
it takes the form of booing or laughing; sometimes it takes the form of
complete silence. But in any case, it should be genuine and heartfelt, not
constrained by the tut-tutting of certain decorum-obsessed prudes. When the
audience isn't allowed to express itself, the audience is unsatisfied --
and that is the true test of whether a performance is a success or a
failure.
As a performer, my goal is to satisfy the audience. Anything that stands
between me and that goal is objectionable. This insidious notion that
audiences must police themselves during curtain calls is an obstacle to
audience satisfaction. Thus, to me, it is offensive. More offensive, in
fact, than minor noises like cellphones and candy wrappers.
mdl
Ronald Leslie
Unsolicited and inapropriate interuptions from the audience however, be it cell phones, snoring, loud conversation or lewd comments, ( the clique is alive and well!) is unaceptable.
I remember Invar Wixel being Boo'd briefly at Covent Garden in the curtain call after a fantastic portrayal of Scarpia. His eyes Lit Up! and he affected a brief Villanous pose which earned him even better response from the audience. It all seems to depent on circumstance and manners.
One of the criticisims I often hear about Opera ( from non Opera go-ers) is that its boring , stuffy and like having teeth pulled at a funeral. This as we all know is pure crap! Opera Can be dramatic, romantic, shocking and Very sexy. It can even be fun! It is allowed you Know !
Love Ron. xxx
romain
Romain the Agreeable
"Mark D. Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
Enrique Eskenazi
villains: Scarpias, Herodias, Iagos and so on. I have never seen a thing
like that at Liceu
Regards
---
Enrique
eske...@teleline.es
Christopher Green
wrote:
I'm reminded of Kevin Langan's Sarastro in The Magic Flute with Opera
Pacific last year. The audience responded to his performance with a
polite chorus of boos. He did a curtsy and flashed a smile, which
turned the restrained boos into an overwhelming roar. (This in a
2,900-seat theater -- his expression was clearly visible in the third
deck.)
I agree with you; booing the bad guy is a theater tradition, at least
in the States, it's part of the fun, and any performer who plays these
roles knows and accepts (and usually enjoys) this.
--
Chris Green
Christopher Green
Sorry, I thought Monostatos and wrote Sarastro.
--
cjg
REG
wrong, but I'd say after some more reflection, and seeing a numberof
responses to my post on the topic, that this kind of "audience
participation" trivializes what's really important for opera if it's to stay
a unique art form (and not become run-over with cross over artists and art
forms). Several people have likened the boo-ing to what kids do at school
performances, but I guess what now resonates much more to me, with that kind
of booing (and I suppose, by extension, that kind of cheering) is that it's
too much like the involvement of people with SOAP OPERAS, those who get so
obsessed that they really think the actors are the characters, and react
accordingly.
I suppose you can say that this kind of involvement is "good" for opera, but
IMHO opera is first and foremost about VOCAL ACTING. It's all well and good,
and sometimes better than well and good, that a fine singer can also move
well on stage, or "act" on stage. But I don't think those who boo are really
LISTENING to the vocal PERFORMANCE, I think they are actually "NOT
LISTENING" - deliberately ignoring, or ignoring through ignorance and lack
of training - what is going on vocally. Does anyone here think Callas or
Magda would have appreciated being BOOED as Medea (there aren't many more
objectionable characters). Is there anyone here who wouldn't give an arm and
a leg (maybe nor their own, but someone else's) to hear Caruso sing in
Pagliacci, despite the fact that no audience who boo him because his stage
deportment could never have convinced them that he "was" the character.
The list goes on and on, but I think there's a difference between making
opera accesible and selling its birthright, and I have a feeling we're on
the cusp, or over the cusp, on this distinction.
"Christopher Green" <cj.g...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3af47acb...@netnews.att.net...
Mark D. Lew
(Christopher Green) wrote:
> Sorry, I thought Monostatos and wrote Sarastro.
Presumably you also wrote the wrong singer's name, as well. Langan is a
bass, and he does indeed sing Sarastro. I assume it was the tenor who
played Monostatos who got the booing ovation that you described.
mdl
Mark D. Lew
<Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Several people have likened the boo-ing to what kids do at school
> performances, but I guess what now resonates much more to me, with that kind
> of booing (and I suppose, by extension, that kind of cheering) is that it's
> too much like the involvement of people with SOAP OPERAS, those who get so
> obsessed that they really think the actors are the characters, and react
> accordingly.
The audience doesn't "really think" the actors are the characters; they're
just enjoying the illusion. The Monostatos experience that Chris Green
described is a perfect example. When they booed the tenor in a friendly
way, his response was to join their fun, with a caricature of the
villainous character. When he did so, the audience was pleased that he
played along, and the boos turned to cheers. That's exactly what I was
talking about when I said that any experience actor knows how to turn
friendly boos into cheers.
> The list goes on and on, but I think there's a difference between making
> opera accesible and selling its birthright, and I have a feeling we're on
> the cusp, or over the cusp, on this distinction.
My argument was never based on the idea of "making opera accessible". If I
felt, as you seem to, that booing a villain is somehow demeaning to opera
or disrespectful to performers, then I may well agree with you that making
opera accessible is not worth that price. However, I don't think that
booing the villain is either of those things.
mdl
A. Brain
experience opera), I was going to make the same observation. Yet somehow, I
don't imagine that Monostatos would get those boos. That aria of his when
he wants to kiss Pamina surely humanizes him. The queen is much more
deserving of boos. Yet the "flashy" nature of her big arias is such that
she inevitably draws applause.
As for Sarastro, I am reminded of two remarks, I believe by Shaw, which I
will paraphrase:
The first is a general definition of what happens in opera:
"The tenor and the soprano want to make love, but are prevented from doing
so by the baritone."
The second is about the music of Sarastro in Zauberfloete: "the only music
worthy of putting in the voice of God".
BTW, who are some of those other tenor villains?
Or how about countertenor villains? It's hard to imagine one more powerful
than Pollinesso in Handel's Ariodante. And the "artificiality" of the voice
seems to make this part even more "evil".
I have seen this opera in Dallas and also in NYCO.
Oddly, it was better in Dallas, as they cut the da capo in NYC.
(Wondering if the witch in Hansel should be done by a countertenor; can be
very effective done by a tenor)
Thanks to Mark for his always insightful and thoughtful posts.
--
A. Brain
Remove "nospam" when replying via email
"Mark D. Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Christopher Green
wrote:
>In article <3af47acb...@netnews.att.net>, cj.g...@worldnet.att.net
Right you are. I don't have the singer's name anywhere in my records.
But his reaction to the audience was priceless.
Chris Green
NBPalmer1
>>bass, and he does indeed sing Sarastro. I assume it was the tenor who
>>played Monostatos who got the booing ovation that you described.
Might you have been referring to the tenor John Lanigan, who often sang
Monostatos?
NICK/London
Martyn Gore
Robinson sang a particularly excellent Claggart in Billy Budd with the
W.N.O.
martyn,
"A. Brain" <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
news:b%8I6.2164$in5.1...@nnrp2.sbc.net...
> Twice this year at HGO, the villains in the opera have been booed at
curtain
> call.
> Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this.
Valfer
portraying a villain, just as we applaud a performer for effectively
portraying a hero. Booing is meant for rewarding bad performances.
What if the guy doing the villain there gives a bad performance, Do you
applaud him?
Valfer
"A. Brain" <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote in message
news:b%8I6.2164$in5.1...@nnrp2.sbc.net...
> Twice this year at HGO, the villains in the opera have been booed at
curtain
> call....
A. Brain
news:uHwyGa90AHA.297@cpmsnbbsa09...
> I don't know about Texas, but here we applaud a performer for effectively
> portraying a villain, just as we applaud a performer for effectively
> portraying a hero. Booing is meant for rewarding bad performances.
Well, this was really one of the points of my original question. It seems
that there are some roles in which the character is so evil that the
appropriate response for some audiences is to "boo" rather than applaud,
especially if the performance is well done.
Again, I have never noticed this happening anywhere for the more ambiguous
roles like Don Giovanni, the devil in Faust or Mefistofele, etc. and not
that often for other true villains.
So I was wondering what other roles might provoke this reaction, and not
necessarily criticizing the local audience. In fact, this reaction is
pretty good proof that the audience is engaged by the drama and overall
production, and that the actor/singer in question is especially effective.
--
A. Brain
Remove "nospam" when replying via email
>
Siegfried Pinkerton
> Nonix (who hasn't booed a villain since Mom took him to see Punch & Judy
> at the Children's Puppet Theater)
Some members of the audience in Houston never grew up...
Mark D. Lew
> So, if the villain sings well, we boo. Then, er, what happens when s/he
> sings poorly? Do we applaud? Or just boo sotto voce? I just wanna be
> sure I've got this straight.
You respond instinctively with what feels right. At an opera, that usually
will be clapping.
I assume your pretense of confusion is meant as sarcasm. There is never any
doubt about whether boos are meant to be express approval or disapproval.
It's very obvious to the performer.
>Hey, I've got a novel idea.
> Let's be adults and treat the people who come out for their curtain calls
> as artists. That way, we can recognize them for their talent (or lack
> thereof), years of training, and effort during the previous 3-4 hours.
Again, the curtain call is for the audience, not for the artists. This has
nothing to do with being "adult".
By the way, the essential meaning of "applause" is to express approval. It
is not necessarily synonymous with clapping. Supportive booing is, in fact,
a form of applause. Similarly, in certain contexts clapping can express
disapproval.
mdl
Roger D. White
"Supportive booing is, in fact, a form of applause. Similarly, in
certain contexts clapping can express disapproval."
Mark, are you sure you haven't read "1984" one time too many? :-)
I'm now at a point where the only thing I know to do is to applaud and
boo at the same time.
~ Roger
Mark D. Lew
ra...@webtv.net (Roger D. White) wrote:
> Mark D. Lew wrote:
> "Supportive booing is, in fact, a form of applause. Similarly, in
> certain contexts clapping can express disapproval."
>
> Mark, are you sure you haven't read "1984" one time too many? :-)
Not 1984, Merriam Webster. Applaud: "to express approval esp. by clapping
the hands". The essence of applause is the expression, not the physical
action.
It's not mysterious that a certain physical action may be positive or
negative depending on the context. Consider whistling.
Set aside the opera question for now, and imagine we're at an old-fashioned
corny melodrama. When the hero enters, the audience applauds by cheering;
when the villain enters, the audience applauds by booing.
mdl
Ivan Lalis
say it's much more pleasing to hear a huge ovation than a loud booing
even if I know they mean it "the other way".
> It's not mysterious that a certain physical action may be positive or
> negative depending on the context. Consider whistling.
I find whistling used in "a positive" manner inappropriate as well.
> Set aside the opera question for now, and imagine we're at an old-fashioned
> corny melodrama. When the hero enters, the audience applauds by cheering;
> when the villain enters, the audience applauds by booing.
If they want to, they can do it. They of course are taking the risk
that they may mystify the actor who may think something went wrong...
Personally, I am not the one who applauds/boos somebody only because
they came on stage. I find it silly and there's nothing you can change
about it (to prevent misunderstanding - not that behaviour _is_ silly
but me thinking so). But I think what we talked about is booing at the
end as a sum up of the actors all evening work.
Ivan
P.S.: I hope this new modern habit won't come to theaters near me,
because then I would have to boo the booers and it would be quite
tricky.
Matthew B. Tepper
<3AFA72EC...@NOSPAM.simultan.ch>:
> But, but, but. Opera is also about an ego of the performer and I would
>say it's much more pleasing to hear a huge ovation than a loud booing
>even if I know they mean it "the other way".
Weren't there some singers in European houses who were quite upset when
Americans descended on performances in large numbers (demobilized GIs after
WWII, then tourists in the 1950s?) and whistled to show their appreciation?
Traditionally, in European theaters, whistling was like booing.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Hoof-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Brian Newhouse
"Mark D. Lew" wrote:
Yes, we know that, just as the performer knows that as soon as he signs the
contract for that old-fashioned melodrama.
The problem here is that the performer who signed a contract for a similar
role in an opera may be thrown off if audience members respond to his
performance in an opera as if it were a performance in a melodrama. In
opera-ese, booing doesn't mean "Your character is a lousy piece of crap"; it
means "Your performance is a lousy piece of crap". Otherwise, what can we do
when lousy singers play nice people?
Speaking of old-fashioned melodramas--my favorite piece of audience heckling,
as reported by Bernard Shaw in his drama-critic days:
On stage--"I tell you you are acting disgracefully!"
From audience--"Hear, hear!"
Mark D. Lew
<Ivan....@NOSPAM.simultan.ch> wrote:
> But, but, but. Opera is also about an ego of the performer and I would
> say it's much more pleasing to hear a huge ovation than a loud booing
> even if I know they mean it "the other way".
[...]
> If they want to, they can do it. They of course are taking the risk
> that they may mystify the actor who may think something went wrong...
In article <3AFAD476...@crisp.net>, newh...@crisp.net wrote:
> The problem here is that the performer who signed a contract for a similar
> role in an opera may be thrown off if audience members respond to his
> performance in an opera as if it were a performance in a melodrama. In
> opera-ese, booing doesn't mean "Your character is a lousy piece of crap"; it
> means "Your performance is a lousy piece of crap". Otherwise, what can we do
> when lousy singers play nice people?
First of all, as was mentioned early in this thread but has perhaps been
lost along the way, friendly booing is a rare occurrence at opera. It's not
something done for any old villain, but only in a case where the nature of
the production and the performance is such that it feels right.
Over the years I've seen an opera villain booed in this way about a half a
dozen times, mostly in smaller productions, and from both sides (ie, from
the audience or from the stage, though never as the villain himself). In
every case the performer was neither mystified nor displeased, and in every
case the performer milked the booing into applause by responding with some
sort of character reaction [*].
Frankly, the idea that a performer could hear appreciative boos and not
know the difference seems perfectly ridiculous to me. Not even an opera
singer could be that stupid -- or if he is, he wouldn't be a good enough
actor to get the response in the first place.
It makes me wonder if you and I are even talking about the same phenomenon.
When you've heard positive booing in the audience, does it really sound and
feel the same as negative boos? I've never experienced it that way.
mdl
[*] There seem to be two basic formulas for this. One is to pretend to
threaten the audience, with a scowl or whatever expression is most
appropriate for the particular villainous character. The second is to give
an exaggerated "who me?" gesture and face. In either case, hold this for a
while, then break character with a friendly laugh, and that's when the boos
turn into cheers. Some performers do this very very well, whether by
instinct or by practice, I don't know.
A. Brain
news:9dc631$hpt$1...@news.panix.com...
> A. Brain <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote:
> : Well, this was really one of the points of my original question. It
seems
> : that there are some roles in which the character is so evil that the
> : appropriate response for some audiences is to "boo" rather than applaud,
> : especially if the performance is well done.
>
> sings poorly? Do we applaud? Or just boo sotto voce? I just wanna be
> Should we applaud the poor performance as well as the extraordinary one,
> in recognition of the character's virtue? Hey, I've got a novel idea.
> Let's be adults and treat the people who come out for their curtain calls
> as artists. That way, we can recognize them for their talent (or lack
> thereof), years of training, and effort during the previous 3-4 hours.
I am much more concerned about distractions during the opera that "adults"
should know are inappropriate, like people talking, opening candy wrappers,
insisting on being seated late at inappropriate moments, applauding in the
middle of the music (rather than at an appropriate and clear interval, etc.
And those shouts of "Bravo" can be distracting too--especially if ill-timed.
I would like to see the "General Director", or whoever sometimes appears on
stage before the opera to solicit money, thank some corporate sponsor, or
whatever add an admonition to refrain from making conversation, etc. during
the music.
James Beckman
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
>
> just enjoying the illusion. The Monostatos experience that Chris Green
> described is a perfect example. When they booed the tenor in a friendly
> way, his response was to join their fun, with a caricature of the
> villainous character.
If I may step back to a really stereotypical villain, consider Gilbert &
Sullivan's "HMS Pinafore." If Dick Deadeye comes out for his bow
*in character* he may very well be booed. Then if he then straightens up
(maybe removes his eyepatch) and takes a bow as the singer, he will
be immediately cheered. I've seen it happen.
Jim Beckman, stagnating in New Jersey
Andre Edouard
> I am much more concerned about distractions during the opera that "adults"
> should know are inappropriate, like people talking, opening candy wrappers,
> insisting on being seated late at inappropriate moments, applauding in the
> middle of the music (rather than at an appropriate and clear interval, etc.
> And those shouts of "Bravo" can be distracting too--especially if ill-timed
Sure,
But even in Shul they talk during services.
I shouldn't applaud the "chazzonim?"
Opera is more sacrosanct?
I know, by you it's like a religion, except for fund raising.
AndreEdouard
Don Paolo
donated so much as $15.00...out of your own pocket, from your own honest
earnings? Did you ever make an honest $15.00 in your whole, all-too-long
existence?
Now, some might wonder how I arrived at that figure.............
Big Paulie, who intends to collect (soon)
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3AFC59FB...@bellsouth.net...
Andre Edouard
Don Meanie
Don Paolo
was the vig a year ago? Seems like you're into the boys for 1,500 big ones
by now.
Let's meet at a midtown steak house & we'll talk; but first, we eat.
Big P.
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3AFC6124...@bellsouth.net...
Andre Edouard
Who pays, or do we flip singers against the wall?
Better show....little paulie. And hands off the sauce.
DMFGAE
Lis K. Froding
"A. Brain" <abr...@nospam.att.net> wrote:
>Twice this year at HGO, the villains in the opera have been booed at curtain
>call.
>
>The mother-in-law in Katya Kabanova and the Grand Inquisitor in Don Carlo
>are, to be sure, evil and malevolent. Both performers excelled in their
>portrayals.
>
>Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this.
>
>There are other operatic "villains" whom I have never seen booed for their
>effectiveness. Perhaps because they are not totally evil? (Don Giovanni
>being the most obvious example)
>
>Any other parts that routinely draw this kind of back-handed acknowledgment?
I've been away for a while, and this may already have been mentioned,
but I've repeatedly heard/read about the same syndrome in southern
Florida. So it's not just Houston.
Lis
si...@webtv.net
reading your stuff. Hope your trip was a fun one
Best John
Thomas Gladigau
Henzel and Grethel, I thought this was rather cute, but having grownups
booing singers for having done thier job well sounds more llike a bad joke!
(I dont want to even sugest, that the booers have so litle knowledge as not
to gratify whatr singers do!)
PAMC
Matthew B. Tepper
<uSKSaAj...@fnews1.vi-internet.de>:
>begin 644 Happy99.exe
>Attachment decoded: Happy99.exe
>`
>end
>
Get your computer checked IMMEDIATELY; that's a virus.
Lis K. Froding
si...@webtv.net wrote:
Thanks. Copenhagen. I saw a performance of Strauss' "Capriccio", which
I hope to have some comments about here in a day or two. I also had the
pleasure of meeting another rmo contributor, Niels Kristiansen and his wife,
during the intermission.
Also watched on television the European Melodi Grand Prix, which is something
I would probably never go near if I lived there, but since Denmark won last
year (when it took place in Stockholm), they got to host it this time, so
this was a BIG EVENT with a live audience of some 38,000 people in a covered
stadium in Copenhagen and watched by more than a hundred million households
throughout Europe and parts of the Middle East. The result of the contest?
Estonia won with the song "Everybody", with Denmark coming in a strong
second. And the weather was absolutely fabulous!
Lis