Who have been the best Otellos?
Eugenia Grimaldi
Domingo.This (to me) are the top three of all times,because eventhough
the "majority' of big voices ( spintos and dramatic tenors), mostly
possesses ugly timbres,this three,not only have the big volume and dark
color,needed for Otello,but at the same time theirs timbre's color are
also beautiful, velvet and pleasant.In other words,when in this Opera
there is the necessity of singing a lyric phrase,(with this three) you
are able to enjoy it enormously too (because of their beautiful timbre's
colors).If some body does not understand exactly what I really want to
express with my comments here,I most say that what I feel with this
three,is the opposite of what I feel, listening to ugly timbres like
those of Mac'Craken and Vickers.To sing Otello,you need a big voice and
a dark color,but not necessarily to have an ugly sound.
Premiereopera
>In my opinion: 1- Mario Del Monaco. 2-Giovanni Zenatello. 3-Placido
>Domingo.This (to me) are the top three of all times,
Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Ed
Premiereopera.com for the best Internet Opera
Tom Kaufman
John O'Sullivan
Francesco Tamagno
Antonio Paoli
Mario del Monaco
Emanuele Salazar
Renato Zanelli
Leo Slezak
Giovanni Zenatello
Francesco Merli
Aureliano Pertile
(interesting that 3 of the 10 are Latin Americans)
dead last (among well known Otellos):
Placido Domingo
Don Tomasso
Tom Kaufman
URL of web site:
<A href="www.geocities.com/Vienna/8917/index.html">Tom Kaufman's site</A>
Nash7676
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 07/14/2001 8:38 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010714213822...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
>
>Nobody bsides me would rank Ramon Vinay way up there?!
>
I'd second that motion judging by the evidence of the Toscanini and
Furtwaengler recordings.
I think Martinelli would rate highly as would Leo Slezak.
==G/P Dave
Skip
"Premiereopera" <premie...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010714202123...@ng-cu1.aol.com...
Andre Edouard
AndreEdouard
ARodolfo
My intention is not to offend the person who started the 'Who have been the
best Otellos?' thread nor any who read that post or reads this one. I'm curious
about learning who people enjoy in the role. Otellos who can actually be
experienced in a live performance...on the stage....in the flesh.
The following is a mini-rant on this whole business of opera and dwelling in
the past.
Yes..the singers in the last century were wonderful. Yes, there were wonderfull
Otellos who should be appreciated, heard and even studied if that's how one
get's one's jollies. I'm all for learning from the past. And sharing opinions
about those singers can be very educational and interesting. Listening to
recordings of someone unknown is also rewarding. The same is true for videos
and broadcasts.
But, opera is more than just an aural medium. Opera is more than just a video
of a performance. Opera is an art form best enjoyed as it's being performed!
Those who were fortunate enough to have experienced a live Otello by a
Vickers/Martinelli/Del Monaco/Whoever would surely agree that having
experienced the performance as it was being given was more exciting than any
recording or video of the same performance.
All of this dwelling in the past makes me concerned that live opera will
eventually be relegated to nothing more than something from the past that
future generations will never experience.
Again, I'm all for remembering and learning from the past. Regardless whether
the recording/video is a bootleg or not, will this genre be able to grow or
even exist if all we do is spend our energy on performances from the past?.
sincerely,
arod
GPOsborne
notes to match the three I picked and probably in this order.
del Monaco
Melchoir
Martinelli
GPOsborne
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B510E1D...@bellsouth.net...
Lucio F. Rodriguez
theme here (at least up to now) apparently agree that Domingo should not
be in the top elite of great Otellos?.Has any body here,seen the 1976
performance from "La Scala",with Freni and Cappuchili?,or the 1979 from
the "Met", with Cruz-Romo and Milnes?.I am a Del Monaco fan in
Otello,but let me tell you that Domingo impressed me in those two
performances I refer to.Of course,I am talking about when Domingo still
was in his prime (before 1980) and still had that "golden" and beautiful
dark tone of voice,witch for some reason, he lost after 1980..
Lucio F. Rodriguez
http://community.webtv.net/LFCUBA/doc
Lucio F. Rodriguez
that he started his carrier as a baritone, and therefore possesses one
of the strongest and darkest center and lower register (needed for the
roll) ,that any of those "so called dramatics" mention here, and is
probably the best "actor" ever to perform the roll.All of this, added to
the proved caliber of his stamina (vocal resistance),his imposing
presence on stage and beautiful golden timbre,has make him one of the
best Otellos,and should be near the top of all times list, (in my
opinion), between the top five.
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010714220045...@ng-fz1.aol.com:
>>From: nash...@aol.com (Nash7676)
>>Date: 07/14/2001 8:38 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <20010714213822...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
>>
>>Nobody bsides me would rank Ramon Vinay way up there?!
>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I'd second that motion judging by the evidence of the Toscanini and
> Furtwaengler recordings.
Not to mention a live 1948 Metropolitan broadcast under Fritz Busch, and a
Teatro Colon performance under Beecham.
> I think Martinelli would rate highly as would Leo Slezak.
Haven't heard the appropriate Slezak excerpts, but I would definitely
include Martinelli, on the basis of (at least) the earliest of his three
Met broadcasts, and of the commercial excerpts for RCA Victor.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Skip
list..............Yes he sings the notes, that's about all.
"Lucio F. Rodriguez" <LFC...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6877-3B5...@storefull-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Lucio F. Rodriguez
much that your which could be possible,but unfortunately today's Otellos
(and the sad reality of today's opera singers in general),can't compare
with those of the past.For some reason,now a day's,(in opposite with the
past) the world is not producing talented "big tenor voices",like the
one's needed to sing heavy rolls like Otello for instance,therefore
that's the main reason why the really knowledge Opera fans,don't have
another choice but to continuing listening and discussing about the
great singers of the past.Will be like a big joke, to talk about today's
Otellos and put them together,in the same category with: Del
Monaco,Tamano,Zenatello,and Merli (only to mention a very few of
them),and that is only to mention the tenors situation.In today's sad
situation, the history repeat it self in all other cords,including
dramatic sopranos,baritones,bass,and mezzos (not mention contraltos).I
repeat,for some reason today's world is producing only light voices
(mostly lyric and ligero voices) and therefore the situation is almost
"ridiculous".Now you are going to see a live performance, and you have
to pay a $30,$40 or $50 dollars ticked to listen to a lyric tenor
singing Aida or Andrea Chenier and a lyric soprano singing Gioconda and
Forza. "DISASTROUS"
david melnick
having seen him live. In my experience of being in the house at
performances of the opera (Vinay, my beloved Del Monaco, McCracken, Domingo
and Cossutta, although I was too young to judge Vinay's performance and soon
conflated it with my experience of the Toscanini recording), Domingo's was
the best in the acting department, if not in purely vocal terms. I remember
telling a friend during the intermission after Act III (this was the early
'80s, although I had seen him also in the late '70s in the role) that I
thought Domingo's portrayal was better than Olivier's (and I was a fan of
Olivier's, had seen his film of the '64 staged performance many times and
had listened to my LPs of the soundtrack scores of times).*
I saw someone post a few months ago (in r.m.o or Opera-l) that he thought
Domingo was better on records than live. My experience was the opposite. I
don't think any record captured the sheen on his voice of the '70s and early
'80s. And the tired Radames I saw just this week on a Met video bears no
relation at all to the excitement of his acting when I was present for his
Cavaradossi, Andrea Chenier and Otello (admittedly I never saw him on stage
in the late '80s or the '90s). Neither the Zeffirelli movie of Otello nor
the videos of him in the role begin to capture the electricity he had. There
is a bit of an indication the Online Classics Verdi gala from last January
where he sings the Otello finale and Cura sings in the Act I final duet.
Cura is shown to be utterly clueless by comparison, IMHO.
During their primes (the '70s) , I always preferred Carreras, Pavarotti and
Arragal to Domingo. But I never doubted that Domingo was a first-rate
artist. And it was clear, I thought, that Otello was right for him if it was
right for anyone of that generation.
David
*Admittedly the Olivier performances were only recordings, and to provide an
equal basis for posting this judgment I should have seen Olivier live. A
friend who was there in '64 told me he was vastly better than in the film.
Among other details that she related was that Maggie Smith was coal-black
with Olivier's makeup at the final curtain call, so hard had he squeezed her
in Act V.
david melnick
Lucio F. Rodriguez
opera experts opinions and the news papers critics are on my side).you
said that Domingo merely sings the notes in Otello and nothing
else?.That is one of the all times understatements I have ever
heard.What about his impeccable and trilling vocal interpretation and
his "master" acting?
Skip
"master" acting? If you like "over" acting.news:6878-3B5...@storefull-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Lucio F. Rodriguez
that disastrous comment (that Domingo over act).I can understand and
accept any other comment about you don't likening or disagreeing with
his voice for Otello's roll,but this time around you when to far my
friend.Thanks good,if you take the time to follow the answers in this
forum about this theme,you will see that you are the only lunatic who
dears to criticize Domingo's acting.
Skip
agree with you....... I don't.news:24273-3B...@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Himadri
I have heard, his Otello - to my ears, at least - is stupendous.
Otello is possibly the most complex character in opera, and it
requires great acting skills to do the role justice. Domingo comes
closer to my ideal of Otello than any other tenor I've heard. Well,
there IS another tenor... and that's Giovanni Martinelli. The live
recordings from the Met conducted by Panizza are absolutely stunning.
Going slightly off-topic for a while, I agree with you that Domingo's
"Otello" is a greater performance than Olivier's "Othello", but, great
actor though he undoubtedly was, Olivier's "Othello" is, to my mind, a
profoundly embarrassing piece of hamming: it is possibly the very
worst performance ever given by a great actor. I actually find
Shakespeare works very well on audio, and am much taken by a recording
of Shakespeare's "Othello" from the 1960s with Richard Johnson in the
title role. More recently, there has been a fine video from the Royal
Shakespeare Company featuring Willard White (that's right - the opera
singer!) as Othello: he is surprisingly good.
I've always found it fascinating comparing these two great
masterpieces, and wouldn't be without my recordings either of Domingo
in one, or of Richard Johnson in the other.
Rgds, Himadri
david melnick <dmel...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3B513D99...@pacbell.net>...
Mark D. Lew
(Tom Kaufman) wrote:
> In my opinion:
>
> John O'Sullivan
> Francesco Tamagno [...]
Did Tamagno survive long enough to record the role? Or are you inferring
from written accounts?
mdl
GRNDPADAVE
for Placido Domingo's Otello. I have two of his recordings (Levine, with
Scotto and Milnes; Maazel, with Ricciarelli and Diaz).
In both instances I find the voice in lovely condition and the more lyrical
portions of the role better served than in any other complete recording.
Otello is a public character, a hero and a soldier as well as a private man
beset by insecurity in his own worthiness to be Desdemona's husband. It is in
this latter capacity that I find Domingo's vocal interpretation somewhat
superficial. To be sure the gestures are there, but not a sense of personal
identification.
This is an honest portrayal, imho, but for me, not a completely moving one.
On the heroic side, I believe Domingo has been adequate but not truly
outstanding.
As so many have pointed out, Otello is probably the most complex role in all
Italian opera. In negotiating these complexities to my greatest satisfaction,
Ramon Vinay stands out as the most complete exponent of the role.
Although no aficionado of Jon Vickers or James McCracken, they would be my
second and third choices, even though neither one, imho, is the possessor of
the vocal strength and power of Mario del Monaco. MdM's performances can be
cherished for many moments of supreme vocal grandeur, but, for me, they do not
add up to a complete presentation of Otello.
It is wonderful that Domingo has, by his frequent performances, made OTELLO
accessible to so many opera lovers. Considering his fame as Otello, imho,
Domingo would not be a whit less famous or beloved if he had never undertaken
the role.
I'm not one of those Johnny-one-notes who thinks that there is *only one* way
to sing a role. I am glad to have a lyrical Otello on occasion as I am to have
a martial one.
But, all in all, I derive the most satisfaction from listening to the Otello
performances of Ramon Vinay.
==G/P Dave
Premiereopera
>I saw many a fine Otello over the years, but very few with the thrilling top
>notes to match the three I picked and probably in this order.
>
>del Monaco
>Melchoir
>Martinelli
You are so very fortunate to have seen these three- especially Melchior, who
did the role so very infrequently.
While visiting Terry McEwen in Hawaii about 6 or 7 years ago, he mentioned
hearing the Melchior Otello, and that Lady Beecham had it, and was asking
exorbident fees for it, and had been turned down by EMI.
Do you know anything about this, sir, and also, if I may be so bold, do you
have a copy? Private answers are fine, but not neccessary. Everyone would love
to know. This historic document should see the light of day on CD. Let it go to
the highest bidder. I am sure Polygram would show interest.
Best,
Ed
Premiereopera.com for the best in Opera on the Internet
Uttini1813
on my list (was he Chilean?).
In addition James McCracken made a big impression on me when I witnessed his
interpretation in person (I would allow that a strictly audio assessment would
be on a lower level) I think it was because his characterization of a strong
but limited man being tragically buffeted by an evil force was so perfect. The
moment where the awful truth becomes clear to Otello was hair-raising.
(McCracken - like Mignon Dunn - had to be experienced in person for full
effect.)
>In my opinion:
>
>John O'Sullivan
>Francesco Tamagno
>Antonio Paoli
>Mario del Monaco
>Emanuele Salazar
>Renato Zanelli
>Leo Slezak
>Giovanni Zenatello
>Francesco Merli
>Aureliano Pertile
>
>(interesting that 3 of the 10 are Latin Americans)
>
>dead last (among well known Otellos):
>Placido Domingo
>
>Don Tomasso
>Tom Kaufman
>URL of web site:
>Tom Kaufman's site
Matthew B. Tepper
7...@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net:
> You are the only person in the world from where I have had to endure
> that disastrous comment (that Domingo over act).I can understand and
> accept any other comment about you don't likening or disagreeing with
> his voice for Otello's roll,but this time around you when to far my
> friend.Thanks good,if you take the time to follow the answers in this
> forum about this theme,you will see that you are the only lunatic who
> dears to criticize Domingo's acting.
That's truer than you think; the other lunatics criticize his voice. ;--)
(I saw Domingo in the role in San Francisco in the late 1970s, and I
thought he was excellent.)
Matthew B. Tepper
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net:
> Did Tamagno survive long enough to record the role? Or are you
> inferring from written accounts?
There exist (and have been issued) multiple takes of "Esultate!", "Niun mi
tema," and "Ora e per sempre addio."
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010715103848...@ng-ff1.aol.com:
> While visiting Terry McEwen in Hawaii about 6 or 7 years ago, he
> mentioned hearing the Melchior Otello, and that Lady Beecham had it,
> and was asking exorbident fees for it, and had been turned down by EMI.
>
> Do you know anything about this, sir, and also, if I may be so bold, do
> you have a copy? Private answers are fine, but not neccessary. Everyone
> would love to know. This historic document should see the light of day
> on CD. Let it go to the highest bidder. I am sure Polygram would show
> interest.
And I am equally sure that they would not care in the least and would far
rather push their singing vibrator Bocelli.
Let the recording be pried from the cold fingers of Shirley, Lady Beecham
upon her demise (she can't live forever!), transferred by Ward Marston, and
issued by Naxos all over the world.
Himadri
I have a recording of Tamagno singing "Nium mi tema", recorded in
1903. (It's on "Great Singers, vol 2" on the Nimbus "Prima Voce"
label.) I don't know if Tamagno recorded any more of the role, but
that excerpt certainly is very impressive.
Rgds, Himadri
ARodolfo
I appreciate your reply and I agree with everything you wrote. And while
reading your post a couple of questions came to mind.
Should Otello and other operas with similar casting problems not be performed?
And if those operas are dismissed because they do not meet the standards set by
the singers from the past, what happens to the art form?
Again, I agree with everything you wrote. It is ridiculous it hear someone who
should be singing Nemorino being paid to perform Tristan. It's not only
ridiculous but pitiful that the standards have slipped as far as they have.
Alas.... what's done is done.
Another question...
What can we do to raise the standards of this remarkable art form?
sincerely,
arod
Figaropcb
from written accounts?"
Yes as other group members have pointed out. Additionally, Victor Maurel
recorded pieces from both OTELLO and FALSTAFF.
Regards,
Paul
MD
thrillingly. There are some excerpts recorded in German that are truly
startling, and show him to be a wonderful vocal 'actor' as well as being
able to sing the be-jeezus out of the part. It's hard to imagine him
physically in the part, and whereas he could act with the voice, he was not
noted for his plausible acting onstage. But on the basis of the recordings,
he deserves a strong mention.
Don Paolo
He had the ideal ringing size & also ideal bronze-coloration to the voice
that he was able to scale down for the tender moments in the love duet &
death scene while still maintaining the undertones of the warrior, which is
the most important aspect of the role.
DelM commanded the stage immediately upon his rafter-ringing"esultate"
entrance, through a love duet that was both romantic & at the same time
strong. His "addio per sempre" was moving in that he portrayed a most
believable wounded lion. He carried the concept of "wounded lion" through
to the ending "niun mi tema", that left one breathless at the tragedy.
Again, the contrast & gradual deterioration of the character was the very
best & most convincing that I ever heard. This is so, because DelM was the
vocal superman/warrior whose edges were gradually chipped away.
Others I have enjoyed hearing are Martinelli & Zenatello. James McCracken
gave his all in the part, with limited vocal resources, but was nevertheless
very effective in his portrayal. Jon Vickers provided his famous held-back
"cerebral" approach that was a legitimate portrayal nonetheless.
I feel that Placido Domingo was a failure in his mousey attempt at a lion's
role. His voice lacked the ringing top & necessary power to do it justice.
He started with an "esultate" that was woefully underpowered & completely
failed to establish the heroic aspects of the role. Then, the rest
deteriorated into that boring whine & unvarying all-pervading plaintive
quality. There was no contrast in his singing, so that the warrior & hurt,
destroyed aspects simply did not exist.
Anyway, you did ask.
Regards,
DonPaolo
Himadri <hima...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:715c8a74.01071...@posting.google.com...
vaurien
54 studio recording with Erede. It confirmed what I always felt, that that
54 rendering of the role is ugly. His technique is crude or even brutal. He
barks rather than sings. The only reason that I believe his Otello was great
(I never heard him on stage) is that I have an EMI Italiana cd with excerpts
recorded on January 16, 1951 with Orchestra Sinfonica di Milano, Argeo
Quadri conducting. Is his Karajan London Otello recording any better? It was
mentioned in another thread in this group that Del Monaco shines only in his
live recordings. Years ago I discovered the MET sells some of their private
collection, I think 8 operas altogehter, which include "the best
Sonambula" - according to the rep (A Sutherland) and a Del Monaco Otello
with De Los Angeles. I balked back than at the price (I think it was $200
per opera). Is it any good? What are the "good" Del Monaco recordings, live
or studio? Is there a video of his Otello?
Noam Eitan
--
DOS EPELE FALT NIT VAYT FUNM BOYM
"Eugenia Grimaldi" <egd...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18206-3B...@storefull-622.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> In my opinion: 1- Mario Del Monaco. 2-Giovanni Zenatello. 3-Placido
Lucio F. Rodriguez
with me,but unfortunately I have no idea,of any solutions or nothing
any body can do,to raise the standards (set by the great singers of the
past) of todays opera singers (for heavy dramatic roles).I repeat,I
don't see a viable solution for the sad reality of the lack of todays
world production of first class talent (in big dramatic voices),been
simply the most powerful reason: that singing teachers and vocal
couches "can't produce big dramatic voices"(or any other kine for
instance),they only can teach singing technics.I invite you to answer
me,(and follow), a topic I just posted (and where I refer to this
problem),named "THE REASON FOR TODAYS "NON EXISTENCE" OF BIG QUALITY
VOICES" .Let's hope there,some body comes with the answer we are both
looking for.
Premiereopera
>From: "Don Paolo" donp...@erols.com
>Date: 7/15/01 6:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9ispvf$i24$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>
>
>For my tastes, Mario DelMonaco was the greatest Otello of the past century.
>He had the ideal ringing size & also ideal bronze-coloration to the voice
>that he was able to scale down for the tender moments in the love duet &
>death scene while still maintaining the undertones of the warrior, which is
>the most important aspect of the role.
>
>DelM commanded the stage immediately upon his rafter-ringing"esultate"
>entrance, through a love duet that was both romantic & at the same time
>strong. His "addio per sempre" was moving in that he portrayed a most
>believable wounded lion. He carried the concept of "wounded lion" through
>to the ending "niun mi tema", that left one breathless at the tragedy.
>Again, the contrast & gradual deterioration of the character was the very
>best & most convincing that I ever heard. This is so, because DelM was the
>vocal superman/warrior whose edges were gradually chipped away.
I agree 100% with everything DonPaolo says. Of all the various tenors I have
seen in this role, none has come close to Del Monaco, my very first Otello in
1959. He was in a class by himself.
Ed
Premiereopera.com for the best Opera on the Internet
Premiereopera
>A question about the Del Monaco Otello: I listened this morning again to his
>54 studio recording with Erede. It confirmed what I always felt, that that
>54 rendering of the role is ugly. His technique is crude or even brutal.
Funny how tastes differ. This is my favorite Del Monaco Otello. His voice was
in pristine condition, and he is thrilling throughout. I would even probably
choose it as his very best commercial recording ever.
Best,
TheDivo
>failed to establish the heroic aspects of the role.
Anyone who recalls Domingo's first Otellos at the Met will remember he came all
the way downstage, to the footlights, to sing "Esultate". Otello's prior to
that, whether DelMonaco, Vinay, McCracken always sang "Esultate" from the deck
of the ship usually at the rear of the stage.
Premiereopera
>best Otellos?
>From: the...@aol.com (TheDivo)
>Date: 7/15/01 5:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010715170708...@ng-cu1.aol.com>
Yes, and we still had trouble hearing him, and he still had troubles coping
with the extreme demands of the music.
Ed
Premireopera.com for the best Opera on the Internet
Skip
singing opera and domingo singing otello, we may never hear the big voices
again. If this was the 40's 50's domingo would never have been cast for
otello. Because he has a name, he is allowed.news:10496-3B...@storefull-165.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
TheDivo
is Corelli, if his recording of "Esultate" is any indication. It's good to hear
a big voiced tenor actually sing the high B natural rather than croak it as
most Otellos do. I think he had the ideal voice for Otello.
Lucio F. Rodriguez
his prime,therefore,you will not find him having better technic,neither
before or after (since you considered his technic in that recording,
ugly and brutal),that was him:"El Gran Mario" at his best,nothing more
and nothing less,either you like him or you don't.I can only tell you
this: that is a matter of "personal" taste.But I must tell you this too:
All most every fan in the opera world agree that, the recording in
reference, is perhaps one of the best (if not the best) ever to be
portrayed of the "Venice Lion".May be the timbre of his
big,dark,baritonal tone and pure metallic and "black marvel" dramatic
voice or his interpretation of a "true" wounded lion,are a little bit to
"scary" for your taste,but I in opposite,find it "fascinating"
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 07/15/2001 4:44 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <69o47.7333$I5.14...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com>
>
>Here's another answer......... As long as we allow things like bocelli
>singing opera and domingo singing otello, we may never hear the big voices
>again. If this was the 40's 50's domingo would never have been cast for
>otello. Because he has a name, he is allowed.
We are dealing with opinions here, not facts.
Who would have "disallowed" Domingo from singing Otello? Edward Johnson?
Rudolf Bing?
It seems to me that Domingo, without being a favorite Otello of mine, has
distinguished himself in the role and has not been content to offer the same
interpretation in each recording. I think even now any announcement that
Domingo is singing the role would result in Standing Room Only signs at the
theater providing the show.
A good friend of mine (who doesn't happen to share my preference for Ramon
Vinay's performance) pointed out that OTELLO was essentially out of the
repertory from the time of Martinelli's retirement (around 1943) to Vinay's
assumption of the role (around 1947).
The opera seemed to drop out of the Met's repertory from 1950 to about 1953/4.
Mario del Monaco was, I think, *the* major singer to bring the opera into
rather permanent status in the Met repertory. (I think he was abetted by the
availability of LP records so that more people got to know this opera better.
Del Monaco's success encouraged singers like Vickers and McCracken to undertake
the role. Their success, in turn, influenced Domingo to give it a go.
Even Luciano Pavarotti gave concert performances (with Georg Solti on the
podium).
Recently -- and sadly -- Carlo Bergonzi tried to add this to his distinguished
accomplisments as a Verdi tenor par excellence.
I don't know who the next great Otello will be, but until then, at least we get
to hear and see this opera with a greater frequency than in nearly any
preceding decade.
"Allowed"? It seems to me that Domingo would have been welcomed in any era!
==G/P Dave
Francesco Tranquilli
listened to him in the complete opera...
> In my opinion: 1- Mario Del Monaco. 2-Giovanni Zenatello. 3-Placido
> the "majority' of big voices ( spintos and dramatic tenors), mostly
> possesses ugly timbres,this three,not only have the big volume and dark
> color,needed for Otello,but at the same time theirs timbre's color are
> also beautiful, velvet and pleasant.In other words,when in this Opera
> there is the necessity of singing a lyric phrase,(with this three) you
> are able to enjoy it enormously too (because of their beautiful timbre's
> colors).If some body does not understand exactly what I really want to
> express with my comments here,I most say that what I feel with this
> three,is the opposite of what I feel, listening to ugly timbres like
> those of Mac'Craken and Vickers.To sing Otello,you need a big voice and
> a dark color,but not necessarily to have an ugly sound.
>
> Eugenia
> http://community.webtv.net/egdiva/DIVA
>
gaus
diffucult, if not impossible, that there will be another Otello to equal
Mario del Monaco. Not with the "mini-tiny-mini" voices of today.
"Premiereopera" <premie...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010715162213...@ng-mj1.aol.com...
VocediVendetta
his "master" acting?"
--------
Believe it or not, not everyone thinks it was thrilling and impeccable nor that
his acting was masterly.
Mark D. Lew
(TheDivo) wrote:
In (partial) defense of the croakers, the B is written as an appoggiatura,
after all, so one might reasonably argue that the prolongation of that note
for even a full beat is excessive.
mdl
VocediVendetta
acting"
Oh I see. Anyone who disagrees with you is a lunatic.
Mark D. Lew
hima...@yahoo.co.uk (Himadri) wrote:
> I have a recording of Tamagno singing "Nium mi tema", recorded in
> 1903. (It's on "Great Singers, vol 2" on the Nimbus "Prima Voce"
> label.) I don't know if Tamagno recorded any more of the role, but
> that excerpt certainly is very impressive.
I am away from my books now, or I would look this up myself. Can someone
tell me how old Tamagno was at the time? I know he sang in the revised
Simon Boccanegra, which must have been some time around 1880, but perhaps
he was young then. I confess I was surprised to hear that he is recorded
at all; I tend to think of him as a singer of the 19th century.
Dare I hope that someone now will surprise me further by citing a recording
of Pauline Viardot?
mdl
VocediVendetta
$50 dollars ticked to listen to a lyric tenor singing Aida or Andrea Chenier
and a lyric soprano singing Gioconda and
Forza. "DISASTROUS"
First of all its more like $130, $140 or $150 dollars
And some of us feel the same way about Domingo or Pavarotti's OTELLO. Both are
not heroic tenors and have to push and compromise in order to get through the
role. I wonder if they would even have tried to sing OTELLO if they were
around in the days of Del Monaco. I'll leave out Corelli who never sang the
role.
VocediVendetta
by the singers from the past, what happens to the art form?"
It dies. Which is exactly what has been happening for the last 25 years or so.
Next it will be Dawn Upshaw as Norma.
Premiereopera
>Date: 7/15/01 5:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010715175241...@ng-fm1.aol.com>
I agree, Divo. And the Esulate that he recorded was fairly early in his career-
mid 50's I believe. Also, Corelli's singing of the Act 1 love duet on the Bing
Gala of 1972 is the best I have ever heard it sung by a tenor. He certainly
would have made a peerless Otello. Che peccato!
Ed
Premiereopera.com for the best Opera Website
VocediVendetta
Rudolf Bing?"
Probably both as they had at their service Melchior, Martinelli, Vinay, Del
Monaco (and Corelli if Bing could have talked him into it).
Premiereopera
>Even Luciano Pavarotti gave concert performances (with Georg Solti on the
>podium).
If you had been present at the one in Carnegie, as I was, you would hardly call
it a performance. It was a mouse trying to sing the music of a lion, and
failing miserably.
Ed
Premiereopera.com for the best in Internet Opera
Premiereopera
Go Voce. I also am a lunatic that hates Domingo's Otello, and always have, from
the first time he did it. He *never* had the size voice, or squillo, or top for
the role. It was always an aproximation at best, and a rather poor one, for me.
Ed
Premiereopera.com for the best Opera Website
Skip
"VocediVendetta" <vocediv...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010715213545...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
david melnick
1903. If you have Real Audio handy, it's at
http://www.nimbus.ltd.uk/nrl/pv_ra.html
Then search for the word Tamagno or Niun.
David
VocediVendetta
Sorry, I lost my head.
ARodolfo
>"And if those operas are dismissed because they do not meet the standards set
>by the singers from the past, what happens to the art form?"
>------------
Vocedivendetta:
>It dies. Which is exactly what has been happening for the last 25 years or
>so..
I agree and some might argue that it's been dying for even longer.
Nevertheless, what can be done to keep the art form alive for future
generations? Or if it's death is inevitable, why should one waste one's time
and energy trying to sustain it?
arod
Andre Edouard
I'm fairly certain I remember hearing it, and being impressed.
AndreEdouard
Andre Edouard
To keep a kernel, at least, of the public aware of its existance, as
some feel it should be.
Which is not to say opera as an art form is dead.
AndreEdouard
david melnick
repeat.
Andre Edouard wrote:
> Didn't Tamagno record the "Esultate?"
> I'm fairly certain I remember hearing it, and being impressed.
> AndreEdouard
Yes.
http://www.iclassics.com/iclassics/album.jsp?selectionId=2930
has it online (search for the word "esultate").
Also:
http://www.geocities.com/vienna/8355/italian/ftdisco.html
is a discography.
But they've remastered the hell out of the 78s. Listening to the RealAudio
makes me want to hear that spectral "acoustic" voice as it was on early LP
transfers.
David
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010715214219...@ng-cd1.aol.com:
>>From: grndp...@aol.com
>
>>Even Luciano Pavarotti gave concert performances (with Georg Solti on
>>the podium).
>
> If you had been present at the one in Carnegie, as I was, you would
> hardly call it a performance. It was a mouse trying to sing the music
> of a lion, and failing miserably.
I have heard a transcription of a private tape of the dress rehearsal, and
he was in *much* better voice for that. Maybe a very intelligent tiger.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Matthew B. Tepper
> I'd like to put in a vote for Melchior, who sang the role infrequently,
> but thrillingly. There are some excerpts recorded in German that are
> truly startling, and show him to be a wonderful vocal 'actor' as well
> as being able to sing the be-jeezus out of the part. It's hard to
> imagine him physically in the part, and whereas he could act with the
> voice, he was not noted for his plausible acting onstage. But on the
> basis of the recordings, he deserves a strong mention.
There's also a live "Esultate!" from late in his life (long after he had
left the operatic stage), sung in Italian, which shows that he must also
have been superb in the role in the original language.
Matthew B. Tepper
news:3B5247C2...@pacbell.net:
> Tamagno's dates are Dec. 28,1850 to Aug. 31, 1905. He recorded Niun mi
> tema in 1903. If you have Real Audio handy, it's at
>
> http://www.nimbus.ltd.uk/nrl/pv_ra.html
>
> Then search for the word Tamagno or Niun.
That's well and good, but only if you don't mind having the sound screwed
up thoroughly in the pathetic Nimbus fashion. Best to hear it in the Opal
(Pearl) transfers where at least it doesn't have lots of added fake reverb.
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010715134815...@ng-mg1.aol.com:
> "Did Tamagno survive long enough to record the role? Or are you
> inferring from written accounts?"
>=========
> Yes as other group members have pointed out. Additionally, Victor
> Maurel recorded pieces from both OTELLO and FALSTAFF.
Maurel's "Quand'ero paggio" from _Falstaff_ comes complete with *two*
encores, the second of these in his native French.
Matthew B. Tepper
news:20010715212545...@ng-ba1.aol.com:
Yes, but some of us liked it anyway.
John Jackson
Coincidentally I have Otello with Domingo (RCA James Levine National
Philharmonic) along with Renata Scotto, Sherrill Milnes from the
library.
Are Renata Scotto, Sherrill Milnes considered top shelf?
When I listen to this opera, being a complete novice, what should I be
listening for in general, in Domingo's voice and the other performers.
Is this opera plot based on a Shakespearian play, and in general are
those opera's which are, considered world class?
Thanks.
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:22:32 -0400 (EDT), egd...@webtv.net (Eugenia
Grimaldi) wrote:
>timbre
John "J.J." Jackson
REG
not have dismissed it the way Dave did. Certainly, Pav was clearly sick, and
the voice would never have had the metal we consider now to be critical for
the role, but the real gap, IMHO, was that Pav had no key to an
interpretation of the role that suited his voice. Otello basically came
across as kind of a guy who loved his gal but who could get a bit annoyed
with her when she did him wrong. THAT was the big problem; the role was not
temperamentally suited for him. One can conceive of an interpretation that
would not require a stentorian tenor, but this was not going to be it.
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:75v47.6510$23.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Don Paolo
which it will never resusitate.
Hoping I am wrong (It happens),
DonPaolo
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B525B1F...@bellsouth.net...
Don Paolo
downward transposition to cater to his vanity. Someone ought to clue him
that the part was written for a dramatic tenor & not zarauela baritone!
Yech!!!!
DonPaolo
Premiereopera <premie...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010715214629...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
Don Paolo
To carry this a step further, I think that during the 40's 50's & 60's
Domingo's status would have been limited to that of an excellent house
tenor, such as Morrell, Jagel, Alexander, Baum. Yes, he would have been the
best of that lot, undoubtedly.
Regards,
DonPaolo
Skip <!sk...@nospam.com.nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:69o47.7333$I5.14...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com...
> Here's another answer......... As long as we allow things like bocelli
> singing opera and domingo singing otello, we may never hear the big voices
> again. If this was the 40's 50's domingo would never have been cast for
> otello. Because he has a name, he is allowed.
> "Lucio F. Rodriguez" <LFC...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:10496-3B...@storefull-165.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > Dear Sr: I am glad you liked my comments and the fact that you agree
> > with me,but unfortunately I have no idea,of any solutions or nothing
> > any body can do,to raise the standards (set by the great singers of the
> > past) of todays opera singers (for heavy dramatic roles).I repeat,I
> > don't see a viable solution for the sad reality of the lack of todays
> > world production of first class talent (in big dramatic voices),been
> > simply the most powerful reason: that singing teachers and vocal
> > couches "can't produce big dramatic voices"(or any other kine for
> > instance),they only can teach singing technics.I invite you to answer
> > me,(and follow), a topic I just posted (and where I refer to this
> > problem),named "THE REASON FOR TODAYS "NON EXISTENCE" OF BIG QUALITY
> > VOICES" .Let's hope there,some body comes with the answer we are both
> > looking for.
> >
> > Lucio F. Rodriguez
> > http://community.webtv.net/LFCUBA/doc
> >
>
>
Andre Edouard
"I take a back seat to no one"
Yes you do, on the # 18 bus to Brighton Beach.
DMFGAE
Don Paolo
DonP.
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B531AD7...@bellsouth.net...
> Hoping I am wrong (It happens),
> DonPaolo
>
> All the time, DP. All the time.
> Love,
> DMFGAE
>
Don Paolo
Love,
BigPaulie
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B531A55...@bellsouth.net...
> Don Paolo wrote:
> Yech!!!!
>
> YECH?
> DMFGAE
>
Andre Edouard
"I think his the most thrilling I ever........"
That's not what you whispered to me on the # 18 bus....in the back seat.
DMFGAE
Andre Edouard
DonPaolo
All the time, DP. All the time.
Love,
DMFGAE
Don Paolo
yes indeed, that is one magnificent "esultate", as was his recorded love
duet. Yet, I just cannot explain it; but I do not believe he would have
been a great Otello. Maybe the voice was just too gorgeous in the essential
sound; not baritonal enough; maybe I feel that he would not have "gotten
into" the role's depths......I fail to vocalise what really troubles me; but
honestly, I am not too unhappy about his failure to undertake the role.
You know, many have expressed the opinion that Canio is the stepping stone
for Otello. Canio was the only role that I experienced with Franco that did
not leave me ga ga. So, maybe there's a consistency in my thinking here.
Now, the Puccini Des Grieux, would have been most ideal for my beloved
Franco!!!!
Regards,
DonPaolo
TheDivo <the...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010715175241...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> My favorite Otello, unfortunately, is someone who never sang the role and
that
> is Corelli, if his recording of "Esultate" is any indication. It's good to
hear
> a big voiced tenor actually sing the high B natural rather than croak it
as
> most Otellos do. I think he had the ideal voice for Otello.
Don Paolo
one can get a pretty good idea. I think his "esultate" the most thrilling I
ever heard.
Regards,
DonPaolo
Francesco Tranquilli <fr...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:QNo47.14689$m06.5...@news.infostrada.it...
> I'd be curious to know how you could place Zenatello as no. 2 without
having
> listened to him in the complete opera...
> Eugenia Grimaldi <egd...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> 18206-3B...@storefull-622.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > In my opinion: 1- Mario Del Monaco. 2-Giovanni Zenatello. 3-Placido
> > Domingo.This (to me) are the top three of all times,because eventhough
> > the "majority' of big voices ( spintos and dramatic tenors), mostly
> > possesses ugly timbres,this three,not only have the big volume and dark
> > color,needed for Otello,but at the same time theirs timbre's color are
> > also beautiful, velvet and pleasant.In other words,when in this Opera
> > there is the necessity of singing a lyric phrase,(with this three) you
> > are able to enjoy it enormously too (because of their beautiful timbre's
> > colors).If some body does not understand exactly what I really want to
> > express with my comments here,I most say that what I feel with this
> > three,is the opposite of what I feel, listening to ugly timbres like
> > those of Mac'Craken and Vickers.To sing Otello,you need a big voice and
> > a dark color,but not necessarily to have an ugly sound.
> >
> > Eugenia
> > http://community.webtv.net/egdiva/DIVA
> >
>
>
Andre Edouard
Uttini1813
>You know, many have expressed the opinion that Canio is the stepping stone
>for Otello. Canio was the only role that I experienced with Franco that did
>not leave me ga ga
Good point. The only two satisfying things I heard AND saw McCracken do were
Canio and Otello.
Uttini1813
>but the real gap, IMHO, was that Pav had no key to an
>interpretation of the role that suited his voice.
IMHO Pav, despite having the most glorious instrument ever vested in a male
singer (or perhaps because of it), never had a key to interpreting any
charatcer. The character was always Pavarotti.
I hold that having a flawed instrument (Albanese, Callas, Gobbi) often builds
character, while wondrous vocal endowment (Farrell, Pavarotti) can often lead
to singing that is bland, unemotional or stilted. (It's much like the young
shortstop who has a cannon for an arm and relies on that rather than developing
range and quick release).
Pavarotti would have been an even greater singer if - after his early success -
he had taken a year or so off and re-invented himself.
Best wsihes,
Mario
(now putting on his heat resistant BVDs)
Matthew B. Tepper
news:9iv3rb$3di$1...@bob.news.rcn.net:
> Maybe not yet dead; but certainly in the ICU, suffering from a coma out
> of which it will never resusitate.
And getting fed poison intravenously every day by the media conglomerates.
Matthew B. Tepper
far better voice for the dress than for the abortive performance. My bad.
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:auv47.29476$16.30...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com:
Skip
the standards were different, no opera house would have contracted domingo
to sing an otello.
"Don Paolo" <donp...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:9iv655$d35$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Don Paolo
DonPaolo
Uttini1813 <uttin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010716151813...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Don Paolo
Well, it was crowded!
BPP
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B531D07...@bellsouth.net...
Don Paolo
Regards,
donPaolo
Uttini1813 <uttin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010716150034...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Don Paolo
games & had to run along the side of the #18...ask Tristan.
BPP
Andre Edouard <and...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B531DF2...@bellsouth.net...
AT
> singer
now...... we are stretching it a bit.
REG
ever risked identifying himself with the roles he sang, so to speak, but I
think there was a "concept" at play in Elisir or Ballo. Here there was
really nothing.....The only role I feel regretfut that he didn't take on is
Lohengrin, which I for one would have been happy to hear in Italian, with
Freni for example. I don't know if he would have been as clueless, but I
like to think not.
"Uttini1813" <uttin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010716151813...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Valfer
original message.
I must mention Antonio Paoli as a fitting successor of Tamagno in the part.
He recorded some excerpts from the opera in 1906 and 1907. His voice was
truly a tenor, not a pushed-up baritone, and he had a trumpet-like squillo
which made him ideal for the big heroic parts. He also sang Manrico,
Radames and Samson.
I also would have loved to have heard Corelli as Otello. I hear that he
studied the part for years, but never agreed to perform it. Perhaps there
was something in the part that he didn't like. Other Otellos I would have
liked to see are Merli, Pertile and Del Monaco.
I have a personal objection to the part being performed by pushed-up
baritones. A singer who has to struggle for high notes will find a lot of
difficulties in Otello. The high Bb's are invariable preceeded by difficult
approaches, and there are several passages demanding a command of the
passaggio which can be an overreach for a low tenor. In fact, Otello has
more high Bb's than Nemorino, Turiddu or Pinkerton.
My only comment on Domingo as Otello is an old Spanish saying: "En reino de
ciegos, el tuerto es rey". (In the realm of the blind, the one-eyed man is
king.)
Valfer
"Premiereopera" <premie...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010715213925...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: Who have been the best Otellos?
Matthew B. Tepper
> My only comment on Domingo as Otello is an old Spanish saying: "En
> reino de ciegos, el tuerto es rey". (In the realm of the blind, the
> one-eyed man is king.)
Oh, no, not another Bocelli thread!
NA
Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:G0r57.3061$Ef6.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Mark D. Lew
[apropos a comment by Valfer]
> > > My only comment on Domingo as Otello is an old Spanish saying: "En
> > > reino de ciegos, el tuerto es rey". (In the realm of the blind, the
> > > one-eyed man is king.)
>
> You mean in Spanish there is actually a word for "ONE EYED MAN"?
I was surprised to see that, too. For starters, it makes me suspect that
the saying originates in Spanish and comes to English only in translation.
The Spanish version is so much more pithy.
What is the derivation, do you know? It looks like a participle of
"torcer". Is a lame man also a "tuerto"? If so, then perhaps it refers to a
twisted leg, and the meaning of one-eyed is a later use by metaphoric
extension. Very curious word.
Related question: Did medieval Spain have a tradition that a man missing
an eye could not succeed to the throne? I've always known that as a
Byzantine custom, but perhaps it found its way to Spain. Or perhaps it has
an earlier origin which Spain shares.
mdl
Mark D. Lew
(ARodolfo) wrote:
> I agree and some might argue that it's been dying for even longer.
> Nevertheless, what can be done to keep the art form alive for future
> generations? Or if it's death is inevitable, why should one waste one's time
> and energy trying to sustain it?
For every human being, death is inevitable. I, for one, do not conclude
that trying to sustain my life for the next 50 years or so is therefore a
waste of time and energy.
My point is that even if opera is a dying art, it can still be enjoyed in
the here and now.
mdl
Valfer
very rich language. Also, all nouns have a gender, as in all other Romance
languages.
Did you know that "soprano", "mezzo soprano" and "contralto" are all
masculine words? They were coined at a time when women were forbidden to
sing in public. In Spanish, the old term for a female singer is "tiple."
The term is now used infrequently, and almost always for female choristers,
who are classified as "first" and "second." The Italian terminology is
reserved for soloists.
Valfer
"NA" <---> wrote in message news:9j5fhp$85t$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
Uttini1813
patch - and does it hold some added symbolic significance?
ARodolfo
>From: mark...@earthlink.net (Mark D. Lew)
>Date: 7/20/01 4:45 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>
agreed. As long as opera is being enjoyed, it will continue to be. Attending
live performances is crucial, imo.
Respect and learn from the past, but live now and help shape the future.
arod
Albert Sanchez Moreno
I haven't heard Zenatello. Domingo is excellent, the best Otello singing
now, but I also like Jon Vickers and Ramon Vinay's Otello very much.
I like the way Vinay's voice sounds both velvety and rough at the same
time; to me it suggests both sides of Otello's character.
McCracken is OK, but also too hammy for my taste.
BTW, if you ever see the movie "Serenade", you'll see a taste of Mario
Lanza as Otello. He is hilariously bad.