Sieglinde doesn´t scream
Armor
supposed to utter a terrifying, primal scream of satisfaction?
Instead she fell limply to the floor like a heap of rags. A huge
disappointment.
(Yesterday´s performance of Die Walküre in the Met)
Doberdawg
Page 72 of the Schirmer score ( http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/bhr9607/large/index.html
) states:
Siegmund sieht mit einem gewaltigen Ruck das Schwert aus dem Stamme
und zeigt es der von Staunen und Entzücken erfassten Sieglinde
(auf English:" with a powerful effort Siegmund pulls the sword from
the tree and shows it to the astonished and enraptured Sieglinde.")
As you can see, there are no stage instructions for a scream a' la
Leonie Rysanek. I do think, however that its a natural, logical moment
for the Siegliende to scream, shriek, howl,etc somewhere between
amazement and a 3 alarm orgasm (don't think for one second that
Siegmund pulling out a sword out of the wood for his Siegliende does
not have multiple, obvious meanings). But helas, no all soprani
singing the role are the stage animals/monstre sacre that was la
Rysanek.
One of the more INEFFECTIVE responses to Siegmund's sword play is
Jessye Norman's flamboyant and grandiose bow to Gary Lake's Siegmund
in the Met's Disney version of the Ring from the early 90s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWBAWJ0IPy0
Sure, Norman screams, but what's with bowing like you've just met the
Emperor of Japan? Get on the ground and writhe around, girl! Your man
is showing you his blade!
Here is one of the more EFFECTIVE reactions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06F71vc1cY
Hoffman as Siegmund pulls out the sword with some effort and falls to
the ground from the exertion. Similarly, Jeannine Altmeyer's
Siegliende falls down *at the same time* as Siegmund (simultaneous
climax!! archi-bravi!) and the guttural moan underscores the
wonderment and ecstasy from Siegliende.
Get dirty, Sieglinde. Make an ugly, ecstatic sound and roll around on
the ground like a porno star. Make us believe!
-Doberdawg
ivanmaxim
> On May 15, 8:33 am, Armor <armins...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Sieglinde doesn´t scream when Wehwalt pulls out the sword! Isn´t she
> > supposed to utter a terrifying, primal scream of satisfaction?
> > Instead she fell limply to the floor like a heap of rags. A huge
> > disappointment.
>
> > (Yesterday´s performance of Die Walküre in the Met)
>
I always though the scream was one of Wieland Wagner's more primitive
Freudien revelations. Wagner fan
ivanmaxim
>
> > Sieglinde doesn´t scream when Wehwalt pulls out the sword! Isn´t she
> > supposed to utter a terrifying, primal scream of satisfaction?
> > Instead she fell limply to the floor like a heap of rags. A huge
> > disappointment.
>
> > (Yesterday´s performance of Die Walküre in the Met)
>
Thats pretty much what Hofmann and Altmeyer do at the end of Act One
and Chereau has a quick curtain come down before the main curtain
closes. Wagner fan
Armor
> On May 15, 8:33 am, Armor <armins...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Sieglinde doesn´t scream when Wehwalt pulls out the sword! Isn´t she
> > supposed to utter a terrifying, primal scream of satisfaction?
> > Instead she fell limply to the floor like a heap of rags. A huge
> > disappointment.
>
> > (Yesterday´s performance of Die Walküre in the Met)
>
Thanks Doberdawg, that was most instructive.
A.
Ato Z
business? It's difficult for me to believe that Rysanek actually was the
first - but it is certainly possible!
I find it rather effective and, like the OP, by now I feel a little
disappointed when it's done sans shriek.
CHSIII
work. Leonie Rysanek had the wonderful gift of beginning a scream on about
a High E-flat, and then sliding chromatically down the scale, sometimes in a
two octave or better drop. An incredible arc of seamless soprano delight
in Walkure. The amazing thing is that the same trick worked just as well in
Parsifal - her Kundry outbursts were even better, although of despair, not
delight. I can't recall any other soprano with quite the same geschrei -
although I did hear Phyllis Bryn-Julson do something similar in a
performance of David Del Tredici's "Alice something or other." Moving in
the opposite direction, Joan Sutherland's upward
better-than-two-octave-shriek at the climax of the lesson scene in Fille du
Regiment was also memorable. I must confess, that the most titillating
moment for me in Lulu, and something I always await with wicked delight, is
the poor girl's shriek as Jack plants his knife. I've never heard it better
than Stratas - guttural, and bloody. And of course, you never know what's
going to happen with "Hanno ammazato compare Turridu," part of that opera's
great fun. Not a scream, but Richard Tucker also delivered an anguished
outcry with his "La commedia e finita!" in a similar vein - and everyone
should hear at least once, Tebaldi's delirium at Valentin's death.
Here's an interesting link: http://wn.com/Sieglinde
"Ato Z" <moonen...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15158-4DD...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
JAC
first place (they've been talking about pulling the sword out for
twenty minutes, she's been watching him get ready... how surprised can
she be??); plus, those who do it now are either directly copying
Rysanek, or just throwing it in because "it's expected." The
performers I respect are those who arrive at their own interpretation
(well based in libretto and score), not those who mindlessly copy
"tradition" (especially a dumb and relatively recent one).
JAC
Terry
There's no screaming in either the score or the stage instructions. Of the
eight recordings I have, only on the Böhm is there some screaming. Fairly
pointless, I would have thought, with the orchestra going full bore at that
point.
--
Cheers, Terry
Doberdawg
> I am SO glad when Sieglinde doesn't scream.
> It's a stupid idea in the
> first place (they've been talking about pulling the sword out for
> twenty minutes, she's been watching him get ready... how surprised can
> she be??);
From the standpoint of the character, just because she has been
talking about it for any length of time does not guarantee that the
sword comes out of the tree. The music itself at that moment
demonstrates surprise and triumph. Not boredom and the mundane as you
are stupidly suggesting and surely are.
>plus, those who do it now are either directly copying
> Rysanek, or just throwing it in because "it's expected."
Uh, right. I guarantee you that Rysanek was not the first Siegliende
in history to scream or moan or utter any type of measurable sound at
that moment. So much for your "copying Rysanek" theory. If a soprano
feels like a scream at that moment, then its truthful and therefore
justifiable...to hell with your desired ban.
>The
> performers I respect are those who arrive at their own interpretation
> (well based in libretto and score), not those who mindlessly copy
> "tradition" (especially a dumb and relatively recent one).
You do realize that opera is built upon traditions, yes? Italian and
German operas in particular are steeped in performance traditions. For
example, Lucia cadenzas are not written in the score, but were
composed 50 years after the premiere of Lucia by Mathilde Marchesi for
her pupil Nellie Melba. Those cadenzas have *gasp!* turned into a
traditional way to perform the end of the first half of the Mad Scene
by 98% of the sopranos singing Lucia since 1888.
I find the idea of not reacting in a certain way or singing something
simply because it has been "tradition" to be exemplary of shallow and
claustrophobic thinking. Bravo, moron.
>
> JAC
wkasimer
> Who cares what you think? Seriously, who cares?
(snip)
> Bravo, moron.
Way to shit on a civil, informative thread, "Doberdawg".
In the future, I suggest that you sober up before posting.
Bill
Doberdawg
point, have someone read the thread for you who can read. As for
sobering up "kasimer" I have no idea what you are talking about, but
its vaguely interesting that you bring up the topic. I suggest YOU
sober up fast, asswipe. This was your freebie. I'm going full throttle
after your ass if you back talk me again, son.
rich...@gmail.com
> The problem is knowing how to "shriek." A gurgled or hoarse scream won't
> work. Leonie Rysanek had the wonderful gift of beginning a scream on about
> a High E-flat, and then sliding chromatically down the scale, sometimes in a
> two octave or better drop. An incredible arc of seamless soprano delight
> in Walkure. The amazing thing is that the same trick worked just as well in
> Parsifal - her Kundry outbursts were even better, although of despair, not
> delight. I can't recall any other soprano with quite the same geschrei -
> although I did hear Phyllis Bryn-Julson do something similar in a
> performance of David Del Tredici's "Alice something or other." Moving in
> the opposite direction, Joan Sutherland's upward
> better-than-two-octave-shriek at the climax of the lesson scene in Fille du
> Regiment was also memorable. I must confess, that the most titillating
> moment for me in Lulu, and something I always await with wicked delight, is
> the poor girl's shriek as Jack plants his knife. I've never heard it better
> than Stratas - guttural, and bloody. And of course, you never know what's
> going to happen with "Hanno ammazato compare Turridu," part of that opera's
> great fun. Not a scream, but Richard Tucker also delivered an anguished
> outcry with his "La commedia e finita!" in a similar vein - and everyone
> should hear at least once, Tebaldi's delirium at Valentin's death.
>
> Here's an interesting link: http://wn.com/Sieglinde
>
>
> news:15158-4DD...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
>
>
>
> > Does anyone happen to know of the earliest instance of this bit of stage
> > business? It's difficult for me to believe that Rysanek actually was the
> > first - but it is certainly possible!
> > I find it rather effective and, like the OP, by now I feel a little
>
> - Show quoted text -
I know thi is off topic a bit, but there is a tape floating around of
Leonie in an early Empress where she shrieks out a high F.
We miss you, Leonie!!!!
ivanmaxim
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
I guess that would be third Act when she sees the Emperors petrified
body. Wagner fan (who really misses Leonie!!!)
rich...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't know the opera as well as I should - I thought it was the
point, in the MET production, when that river or fountain comes one.
Very vague description, I know, but suddenly there is some fountain
that starts, symboliing something???