La Boheme Questions
Robert Neu
I've read the libretto to La Boheme and I saw it last year at
the Bastille Opera House and I still have two questions.
1. Who sells what to buy what for Mimi? Rodolfo sells his coat
to pay for medicine/the doctor who never shows up? Musetta sells
something else to buy a muff?
2. Why do Rodolfo and Mimi break up? She's got T. B. and she
wants to spare Rodolfo so instead of telling him the truth she
says, hey, we love each other, but why don't we break up until
winter's over? And he says OK? Sure, it's a great song, but HUH?
How does Rodolfo find out Mimi is sick? When he finds out, why
doesn't he just say, hey, we're broken up until winter, and let
her die alone?
I don't know why but *seriously* this opera makes no sense to me.
I mean, and I can understand the *Ring* . . .
Musipro
n...@venice.dh.trw.com (Robert Neu) wrote:
I've read the libretto to La Boheme and I saw it last year at
the Bastille Opera House and I still have two questions.
1. Who sells what to buy what for Mimi? [snip]
2. Why do Rodolfo and Mimi break up? She's got T. B. and she
wants to spare Rodolfo so instead of telling him the truth she
says, hey, we love each other, but why don't we break up until
winter's over? And he says OK? Sure, it's a great song, but HUH?
See J. Caywood's post on the thread "Boheme bashing" elsewhere in this
newsgroup for someone as utterly lost as you. The libretto of Boheme is
admittedly episodic...I've always thought it's like seeing people you
haven't seen in a while only to find that drastic changes have occurred in
their lives.
1. In the last act, it's not Rodolfo who sells his coat. It's Colline,
the philosopher. Musetta gives Marcello her earrings, presumably in order
to sell them to obtain enough money to buy both a muff and medicine for
Mimi, which is what they return with just before Mimi's death. When they
return, Marcello mentions that he has sent for the doctor, but the doctor
never arrives because Mimi dies and the opera ends before he can do so.
It's not clear why Colline sells his overcoat--he returns with money, but
hasn't bought anything with it. It's an excuse for him to exit for a
while so that Rodolfo and Mimi can sing their last love duet in privacy,
perhaps...
2. Rodolfo and Mimi have separated before the third act begins.
Ostensibly, as Rodolfo asserts, it's because he can't stand her flirting
with other men (there must be a grain of truth in this, as between the
third and fourth acts, she runs off with some Viscount or another, only to
return one final time to Rodolfo's arms to die). Their love relationship
from the beginning is haunted by Mimi's fatal illness. It's not clear
when Rodolfo finds this out (from the way most Mimis play up the coughing
in Act One, he'd be stupid not to figure it out pretty quickly), but he
certainly knows by Act Three, as he admits to Marcello that he has pushed
Mimi away himself because he cannot bear the thought of her illness and
being too poor to take proper care of her. They reconcile temporarily
during Act Three in the quartet that concludes the act, deciding not to
break up until spring comes.
Maybe this doesn't make much more sense to you, but that's what I
understand from reading the libretto.
Eric Dew
In article <4v077g$f...@venice.dh.trw.com> n...@venice.dh.trw.com (Robert Neu) writes:
>I've read the libretto to La Boheme and I saw it last year at
>the Bastille Opera House and I still have two questions.
>
>to pay for medicine/the doctor who never shows up? Musetta sells
>something else to buy a muff?
No, Rodolfo doesn't sell his coat. Colline sells his coat in the coat aria.
Musette sells her earrings/jewelry. Marcello goes with Musette to get the
medicine. She gets a muff because it was something that Mimi wanted since
Act II.
>
>2. Why do Rodolfo and Mimi break up? She's got T. B. and she
>wants to spare Rodolfo so instead of telling him the truth she
>says, hey, we love each other, but why don't we break up until
>winter's over? And he says OK? Sure, it's a great song, but HUH?
>How does Rodolfo find out Mimi is sick? When he finds out, why
>doesn't he just say, hey, we're broken up until winter, and let
>her die alone?
>
No, Mimi doesn't know. Rodolfo knows (apparently, he's seen many...in the
book by Murger, Rodolfo's been around the block TB-death wise). He doesn't
want Mimi staying with him in the attic because of the wind chill factor.
Rodolfo emotionally thinks it's better to at least comfort Mimi during
the dreary days and nights of winter, so that when they break up, at least
it's in spring and the nice flowers and such will be a nice diversion from
the thoughts of breaking up. I guess you haven't broken up much with
others...
>I don't know why but *seriously* this opera makes no sense to me.
>I mean, and I can understand the *Ring* . . .
Maybe you should go out more and date some. Relationship emotions don't
have to make sense. People do the darnedest things when they're in a
romantic relationship. The only way you can make sense of Le Boheme is
to perhaps live through a relationship like that so you can at least
commiserate with the situation.
EDEW
One who likes both the Ring and Boheme
Andrea L. Winkler
ed...@netcom.com (Eric Dew) wrote:
>No, Mimi doesn't know. Rodolfo knows (apparently, he's seen many...in the book by Murger, Rodolfo's been around the block TB-death wise).
Anyone who lived at that time and in that economic stratum would know the
signs of TB. Mimi is said not to know, and since people do block out
unacceptable / unchangeable situations, it's perfectly possible. The
others can see it, as well; in the last act, when Marcello says that Mimi
will be dead in half an hour, he's not talking through his hat, but
speaking from (probable) experience.
(snip)
> Relationship emotions don't have to make sense. People do the darnedest things when they're in a romantic relationship.
True. This is an episodic, very emotional opera, in which the story line
is perhaps less important than the relationship between the characters.
When I was little, I could NEVER understand Rodolfo. He loves Mimi, but
runs out on her (the cad!) when she needs him. Older now, it makes
perfect sense. I know (wish I didn't) just how hard it is to watch
someone dying, and be unable to do anything to help besides give comfort.
But there's another layer to this. Rodolfo has lived a life in which he
has been more interested in artistic, interior things than in making
money. There are many, many rewards in that kind of life that aren't
always apparent to the people who are more focused on greater wealth, for
whatever reason. But there is a down-side, and in Boheme Rodolfo is
brought up short by these. He can't do anything to help Mimi because of
the life he has chosen. It's fine for him--but, because of it, he is
powerless to help her (say, by sending her to the sea, or providing
delicate food and a warm house, or sending her to a spa or sanitarium).
If he lets her go, in the spring, when the weather is warm and she's less
likely to become ill, then (being a bit of a flirt--after all, she came
home with HIM that first night) she might be able to find someone--the
viscount--who can help her materially in a way Rodolfo can't. This
doesn't mean that either Rodolfo or Puccini (or Murger, for thatmatter)
privileged material help over emotional--after all, when material things
can no longer help her, when she is dying, Mimi comes back to Rodolfo,
who she knows will give her what she needs most.
Joan Livingston
There may be a perceived weakness in the plot because the literary
inspiration was "Scenes de la Vie Boheme". This was a series of vignettes
woven by Puccini into some sort of linear plot when he composed the opera
with librettist Illica and Giacosa. You may wish to read the original
source and see how you would have pulled out a plot. I am sure many
missing links may be found there as well as departures from the original
necessary for some dramatic impact.
Interesting to learn on my Puccini roots trip to Lucca was that
the Lucca Christmas market was the source of the line that it is not
Christmas without the smell of "fritters" on the square. What? Not crepes,
for Paris? However, only at Christmas are yummy lemony fried doughnuts are
sold by the San Michele church outdoor market, very near Puccini's boyhood
home in the center of Lucca.
Additionally, at the beginning of Act III, when in the snow
outside the "gates of Paris" (which was a feature that always struck me as
odd), the early morning trades people are asked by the guards where they
are going and they respond "San Michele" again referring to Puccini's
boyhood church.
Lucca is an exquisite walled city so since Puccini had not been to
Paris at the time he wrote Boheme, it appears he incorporated his own
experiences into its texture.
Joan
Lis K. Froding
In <4v2mpc$3...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> "Andrea L. Winkler"
Thank you. I haven't followed this entire thread, but this is the
first time someone has come up with a plausible (to me) explanation for
the decision to "stay together during the winter and separate in the
spring". Call me slow.....
Lis
lbf6208
Andrea L. Winkler (andw...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) wrote:
: He [Rodolfo] can't do anything to help Mimi because of
: powerless to help her (say, by sending her to the sea, or providing
: delicate food and a warm house, or sending her to a spa or sanitarium).
: If he lets her go, in the spring, when the weather is warm and she's less
: likely to become ill, then (being a bit of a flirt--after all, she came
: home with HIM that first night) she might be able to find someone--the
: viscount--who can help her materially in a way Rodolfo can't.
I agree with all of this as far as the current libretto is concerned.
However, perhaps the best explanation for the situation in Act IV comes from
the so-called "Cortile Act," the original Act III which was cut from the
libretto. In this act, which takes place in the spring (after the current
Act III, which was Act II -- it's a long story), Musetta is throwing a
party. Rodolfo and Mimi arrive together. The two women talk and Mimi
reveals that she's having problems with Rodolfo. After Mimi changes into
one of Musetta's dresses, Musetta introduces her to the infamous Viscount
Paul, saying that she (Mimi) is unattached at the moment. Mimi and the
Viscount dance, Rodolfo sees them, goes into a jealous rage, gets drunk, and
leaves with his (male) friends. So it's quite plain that in Puccini's
original plan Rodolfo was dumped.
--
Linda B. Fairtile
Astoria, New York
lbf...@is.nyu.edu
ta...@bway.net
David
> Maybe you should go out more and date some. Relationship emotions don't
> have to make sense. People do the darnedest things when they're in a
> to perhaps live through a relationship like that so you can at least
> commiserate with the situation.
Why attack the poor guy for asking a few questions about Boheme? Isn't
it enough to answer his questions without defensively and dubiously
attacking him for not understanding love? "Maybe you should go out and
date some" is a rude and inappropriate response to honest questions posed
about Boheme. Honestly, what do we know about this guy? Enough to make
such condemnatory statements about him? Moreover, the libretto of Boheme
does make sense and can be explained. It does not require some mystical
affinity for the characters to be understood. Finally, I want to
apologize to you, whom I do not know beyond this single post, for
singling you out for abuse. But I have noticed so many times on the
classical music newsgroups that a novice (or even someone who is not a
novice) will make a naive query and practically get his or her head
chopped off by defensive keepers of the flame.
Derrick Everett
mus...@aol.com (Musipro) wrote:
> 2. Rodolfo and Mimi have separated before the third act begins.
FWIW, as most Puccini lovers know, the original libretto of "La Boheme" contains
another act, which I think came after Act 3 and before what is now Act 4. Puccini
decided not to set this act, which left something of a gap in the story.
Unfortunately my copy of the libretto was eaten by mice, so I hope that someone
out there can provice the forgotten details!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Derrick (Oslo, Norway)
Check out my Web page at: http://www.sn.no/~deverett
Andrea L. Winkler
Thank YOU! Glad it made sense to someone. And you're not stupid at
all, at least I don't think so (and I refuse to comment on anyone's love
life, too). I have a friend who is very interested in opera, but has
never been able to "get into it". The very cerebral operas appeal to him
in terms of musical structure and plot, without engaging him emotionally.
He asked me to help him with opera, so I've been doing some thinking
about some of the more openly emotional operas--Puccini and Verdi, the
ones with the Gaping Plot Holes (tm)--to try to verbalize for him all the
stuff that the MUSIC inserts non-verbally, so that he might get drawn in
emotionally.
--Andrea
Andrea L. Winkler
lbf...@is.nyu.edu (lbf6208) wrote:
>However, perhaps the best explanation for the situation in Act IV comes from
>the so-called "Cortile Act," the original Act III which was cut from the
>libretto. In this act, which takes place in the spring (after the current
>Act III, which was Act II -- it's a long story), Musetta is throwing a
>party. Rodolfo and Mimi arrive together. The two women talk and Mimi
>reveals that she's having problems with Rodolfo. After Mimi changes into
>one of Musetta's dresses, Musetta introduces her to the infamous Viscount
>Paul, saying that she (Mimi) is unattached at the moment. Mimi and the
>Viscount dance, Rodolfo sees them, goes into a jealous rage, gets drunk, and
>leaves with his (male) friends. So it's quite plain that in Puccini's
>original plan Rodolfo was dumped.
>
>--
Very true, and that makes quite a lot of sense (although from this I read
Mimi as *ready* to dump R., but being engineered into it, just a little,
by Musetta). But it certainly explains something else which is only
hinted at in the libretto as it stands, and that is the relationship
between Musetta and Mimi.
Thanks!
--Andrea
David
> Additionally, at the beginning of Act III, when in the snow
> outside the "gates of Paris" (which was a feature that always struck me as
> odd), the early morning trades people are asked by the guards where they
> are going and they respond "San Michele" again referring to Puccini's
> boyhood church.
>
> Lucca is an exquisite walled city so since Puccini had not been to
> Paris at the time he wrote Boheme, it appears he incorporated his own
> experiences into its texture.
Actually, in the 19th century it was the case that there were gates to
Paris where merchants had to stop and pay a tariff before entering the
city.
Pasquale J. Di Pillo
In <32168B...@midway.uchicago.edu> David
<dga...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
True. Sometime earlier this year, in the Sunday New York Times Travel
(or maybe the Arts & Leisure)Section, there was an article about these
so-called Customs Houses where people would have to enter the city of
Paris through a gate at which a tariff or tax might have to be paid.
Two or three of these gates are still standing today and can be
visited. A very interesting article, especially for Francophiles or
'Puccini'philes.
Pat Di Pillo
lbf6208
: between Musetta and Mimi.
For another view of this relationship, check out Leoncavallo's _Boheme_.
Musetta is more the star of this version and Mimi is sort of unlikeable.
They are much more of a "team" than in Puccini's, if I remember correctly.
Trat Colins
Joan Livingston wrote:
>
> Customs Gates:
>
> Puccini's favorite home now called "Villa Puccini" at Torre del
> Lago on Lake Massaciucoli near Lucca was named for one of these custom
> checkpoint towers (Torre) between the sea at Viareggio and the ancient
> wealthy silk town of Lucca.
>
> The residence, where Puccini is buried with a cigarette placed at
> the base of his tomb, is somewhat surprising in its modesty. It seems
> amazing he created such complex works off a simple upright piano.
>
> Joan, Santa Barbara
Yes, but Turandot was composed on a lovely grand piano in his modest
home inside the wall of Lucca. Which in this now museum, holds the
Turandot's costume from the Metropolitan premiere.
I was a little disappointed with his home inside the wall. I was not
able to, unfortunately visit his home on the lake. :( I have heard it
puts the one inside the wall to shame. But I felt the museum in town
had more memorabilia of Turandot than of anything else.
Oh well...
Gerardo B Polanco
---------------
IMO someone who is not suceptible to “bathos” is unlikely to respond to
the melodrama of Italian opera. The plot lines are cliche ridden and
unsophisticated. We react because we make the necessary concessions. I
think that your friend is more likely to get caught in the grandeur of a
good production of a Wagner opera. If the spine tingles you are home
free. Otherwise a first class production of Othello might get through the
wall of resistance. Approach the heart via the brain. I'm talking about
live opera, of course. With records, many well chosen excerpts of Italian
opera can work better for you purpose than the whole opera.
GP
Ann Feeney
Puccini's discarded act gives a more credible set of reasons for Rodolfo
and Mimi to break up. Musetta is giving a party, but during the middle of
it, her creditors kick her out of her apartment, and take all her
furniture outside. The party goes on, nonetheless.
Rodolfo is jealous of Mimi's flirtatious habits, and Musetta encourages
Mimi and the Viscount to get together, even going so far as to tell the
Vicount that Mimi is available. Mimi and he flirt, while Rodolfo watches,
and then he interrupts when they start to dance. He makes one heck of a
scene, Mimi answers him right back, and finally, more than a little tipsy,
he decides that her flirting and her illness are too much combined--she's
better off with the rich viscount, and in operatic fashion, tells the
entire party this at the top of his tenorial lungs.
--
Ann Feeney afe...@mcs.com
(312)649-6683
boo who?
n...@venice.dh.trw.com (Robert Neu) wrote:
>I've read the libretto to La Boheme and I saw it last year at
>the Bastille Opera House and I still have two questions.
>1. Who sells what to buy what for Mimi? Rodolfo sells his coat
>to pay for medicine/the doctor who never shows up? Musetta sells
>something else to buy a muff?
1. Colline sells coat for medicine - Musetta sells earrings for muff.
>2. Why do Rodolfo and Mimi break up? She's got T. B. and she
>wants to spare Rodolfo so instead of telling him the truth she
>says, hey, we love each other, but why don't we break up until
>winter's over? And he says OK? Sure, it's a great song, but HUH?
>How does Rodolfo find out Mimi is sick? When he finds out, why
>doesn't he just say, hey, we're broken up until winter, and let
>her die alone?
2. Rodolfo breaks up the relationship because he is afraid his
life of poverty will kill Mimi. He knows she's sick because
she continually coughs up pieces of her lungs! They agree to stick
it out through the winter because he loves her and wants to make
sure she survives until the weather improves. At the beginning of Act
Four they have broken up, and Musetta comes to tell Rodolfo she is
dying.
Joan Livingston
Trat Colins
Joan Livingston wrote:
>
> Trat Colins (bjoe...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> : I was a little disappointed with his home inside the wall. I was not
> : able to, unfortunately visit his home on the lake. :( I have heard it
> : puts the one inside the wall to shame. But I felt the museum in town
> : had more memorabilia of Turandot than of anything else.
>
> Birthplace Museum on Via Poggio was going to be closed for complete
> refurbishment. More original items will be in place when it re-opens.
>
> The best part of visiting the Lucca home was sitting in the dining
> room on a settee available for visitors and listening to Puccini's music
> while communing with the very rooms, windows and views that made up
> Puccini's early life.
>
> The real treat for me was to go up to the upstairs terrace and
> view the roof tops and towers of Lucca. This may have been the only open
> space for the residents in this building to use and I am sure Puccini
> spent many hours up here surveying the delightful charm of his city. (My
> imagination?)
>
> A visit to a nearby mountain town of Celle which must be done by
> car has still another Puccini Museum. In Puccini's days, it had to be done
> by horse. This is where his original ancestors came from before the move
> 4 generations ago to Lucca.
>
> I purchased a wonderful video on Puccini's life when I was in
> Lucca. It had to be converted to American format when I got it home, which
> was not a problem. Its tell the entire story of his life and shows the
> places he lived in and where he wrote. The background music is, as you can
> imagine, lush and gorgeous. It builds his life to a musical climax, ending
> with the final strains of Turandot and you feel intimately connected with
> this man, his times, his places and his music.
>
> I use this video early when I teach Puccini to total opera
> neophytes for Elderhostel. Every class cheers when it is over and the rest
> of the class is easy from that point on. It really hooks the beginner on
> Puccini and people realize they are more familiar with his music than they
> thought. It is a winner.
>
> Joan
I just got back from Lucca about a month ago. Here's the sad thing. I
was there for a month. And it took me till the very end of the stay to
see just one of the many cathedrals there in Lucca. Well, I was there
actually to study. So my time was pretty much consumed with rehearsals,
lessons, classes, masterclasses, and trying to find time to get a bite
to eat.
I did see the video in several stores there, but I did not buy it
because of the video format. I have heard it is expensive to get it
changed over. I bought the Otello movie with Vickers and Freni while I
was there. After I learned the fact about the video formats. Oh
well...
How much does it cost to get it converted and where can I go to get it
done?
And now that I am thinking about it. Why the heck do they have
different video formats in the first place? It makes no sens to me, but
perhapse someone with expertise in this field can explain.
Augie
>Joan Livingston wrote:
>> The residence, where Puccini is buried with a cigarette placed
at
>> the base of his tomb, is somewhat surprising in its modesty. It seems
>> amazing he created such complex works off a simple upright piano.
How much more could he have created had the cigarettes not killed him ....
Augie
Giovanni Christen
>Who sells what to buy what for Mimi? [snip]
>
>In the last act, it's not Rodolfo who sells his coat. It's Colline,
>the philosopher.
Colline does not sell his coat. He gives it as security for obtaining a
loan (probably the same happens with earrings).
The institutions leaning money by holding objects as pledge were named
"Monte di pieta". That is why Colline sings
> Vecchia zimarra, senti,
> io resto al pian, tu ascendere
> il sacro monte or devi.
Or: I am going downstairs for bringing you to the "monte" - told in the
ridiculous "philosophical" language typical of the character.
I think the libretto deserves to be read word by word, because words are
not there by chance.
The relevant question is: why does Colline sing a comical song in the mid
of the most dramatical ending of operatic repertoire (at least to my ears
- and, in this case, eyes) ?
*That* is genius!
Giovanni
Joan Livingston
s.rain.org> <321819...@worldnet.att.net>:
Distribution:
: changed over. I bought the Otello movie with Vickers and Freni while I
: was there. After I learned the fact about the video formats. Oh
: well...
:
: How much does it cost to get it converted and where can I go to get it
: done?
Expensive is a relative thing, esp if you are a student. ;-) It
cost me $20. I looked in the e yellow pages for an audio/visual place,
something in the recording business I guess. i live in a town of 150,000.
Maybe you have to be in a larger area. But I am sure something like this
can be done by mail so maybe a magazine would have some ads.
How lucky you lived in Lucca. I did fall in love with that city.
Did you enjoy it and what were your studying? Were you at the Institute
Boccherini? I stayed in the Hotel Universo and walked and walked and
walked. The desserts and the Panforte at Christmas time were fabulous. The
decorations in the streets were beautiful. The weather was okay. Spent
lots of time in Puccini's cafe reading and drinking expresso. Walking the
walls was a pleasure and made a foray up to Bagni di Lucca for New Years
Eve.
It was a wonderful, wonderful trip. Following the book "The Land
of Puccini" can fill a two week time and I highly recommend it to any
Puccini fans. The winter weather was like N. California, no crowds and the
prices at low season. Plus you are in Italy in season for the opera.
Special foods and festivals go on at that time. Milan and Parma had snow
but Lucca and the Ligurian Coast was far more temperate and Mediterranean.
Flowers in bloom and green hills.
Joan, Santa Barbara
Marcus Ramon
Doesn't anyone stop to think that if so many people have serious questions
about the plot or whatever is going on in this opera then there is some serious
flaw in this opera !
Trat Colins
I was studying opera. What else? :) I was all through out that town.
I lived with a host mother outside of the wall. I had to go through the
exit at S. Maria piazza to go home. I did a lot of walking. Luckily my
host mother supplied me with a bicycle which made it very nice. I
performed in a Donizetti opera in the Teatro del Giglio, right across
from the Hotel Universo. The masterclasses with Scotto and Alva were
held on the wall at S. Croce. We did a total of 4 operas there and
rehearsals were held at various places throughout the town. I ate many
times at the cafe Puccini frequented. Cafe Di Simo. A lovely little
cafe. My first few days there were frustrating because I kept getting
lost. But I soon found my way around town.
It was an experience of a lifetime. But as beautiful as Italy is, I
still prefer this country (USA) over Italy anytime. :)
Joan Livingston
Musipro
Giovanni Christen <gi...@mvseth.ethz.ch> wrote:
:Colline does not sell his coat. He gives it as security for :obtaining a
:loan (probably the same happens with earrings).
:The institutions leaning money by holding objects as :pledge were named
:"Monte di pieta". That is why Colline sings
:> Vecchia zimarra, senti,
:> io resto al pian, tu ascendere
:> il sacro monte or devi. [snip]
:The relevant question is: why does Colline sing a comical :song in the
mid
:of the most dramatical ending of operatic repertoire (at :least to my
ears
:- and, in this case, eyes) ?
This is absolutely true--I'd been meaning to post this correction to an
earlier post of mine myself--Colline does not _sell_ his overcoat, he
pawns it. As to why he sings "vecchia zimarra" at all, although
technically it might qualify as a _buffo_ number, it certainly does not
make one laugh or forget the situation at hand, being to my ears very
moving in its simplicity. Very few basses fail to make an effect with it.
It provides a solo moment for Colline (it may justifiably be asked why
Colline gets a solo, when Marcello, a more important character, doesn't)
and a brief moment of relative respite from the tragedy of Act Four.
Trat Colins
Eric Dew wrote:
> seen the opera, only a handful have made overtures (forgive the pun) about
> flaws in the plot. The rest of us, including plenty of those who sing and
> direct and produce the opera, have no problems with the plot. Serious flaw
> in the opera? Serious flaw in your logic, I think.
>
> EDEW
I think we have on this thread given La Boheme an OVER analyzation. I
firmly believe that there many musical wonders that were never meant to
be overly analyzed. Who really cares about the plot? The music speaks
to me more than any plot could ever speak to me. I guess that's why I
like opera better than musicals. Being that most musicals' music
contain trite and stupid musical pieces...
Musipro
Marcus Ramon <mra...@siberia.com> wrote:
>Doesn't anyone stop to think that if so many people have serious
questions
>about the plot or whatever is going on in this opera then there is some
serious
>flaw in this opera !
As I've said elsewhere in this group, if you start scrutinizing opera
libretti too closely, even those of great operas, you'll find that
practically all have dramatic gaps that would not pass muster without the
music. That's why they're operas and not plays.
Robert Neu
Long ago I wrote:
> . . . Why do Rodolfo and Mimi break up? . . .
to which EDEW responded:
>> [Rodolfo] doesn't
>> want Mimi staying with him in the attic because of the wind chill factor.
So she should go back to her place, where she hasn't even got a *candle*?
>> Rodolfo emotionally thinks it's better to at least comfort Mimi during
>> the dreary days and nights of winter, so that when they break up, at least
>> it's in spring and the nice flowers and such will be a nice diversion from
>> the thoughts of breaking up. I guess you haven't broken up much with
>> others...
On the contrary! But I have never, when breaking up, taken the weather
into account.
>> Relationship emotions don't
>> have to make sense. People do the darnedest things when they're in a
>> romantic relationship. The only way you can make sense of Le Boheme is
>> to perhaps live through a relationship like that so you can at least
>> commiserate with the situation.
I hope I don't run into a woman who dumps me whenever she's not feeling
well. Even if I did, though, I wouldn't respond like Rodolfo, saying
"Oh, OK!"
>> Maybe you should go out more and date some.
I'd love to, but my wife would get mad.
James Kahn
In article <4v9i78$1...@news1.t1.usa.pipeline.com>,
Augie <aug...@nyc.pipeline.com> wrote:
>
>How appropriate is the murdering cigarette!
>How much more could he have created had the cigarettes not killed him ....
You're assuming that the cigarettes weren't partly responsible for
his productivity in the first place!
--Jim
====================================================================
ka...@troi.cc.rochester.edu Department of Economics
http://kahn.econ.rochester.edu University of Rochester
Rochester, NY 14627
lbf6208
Trat Colins (bjoe...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: I think we have on this thread given La Boheme an OVER analyzation. I
: firmly believe that there many musical wonders that were never meant to
: be overly analyzed. Who really cares about the plot?
The obvious answer to that question is "Puccini did." He agonized over the
libretti of his operas. That fact alone legitimizes them as an object of study,
to whatever degree one enjoys. Of course there's "the music," but for Puccini
at least "the words" were a necessary catalyst.
Eric Dew
>about the plot or whatever is going on in this opera then there is some serious
>flaw in this opera !
>
Ah, the squeaky wheel gets the grease view of things. Of the millions who have
John Soward Bayne
Trat Colins <bjoe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>firmly believe that there many musical wonders that were never meant to
>to me more than any plot could ever speak to me. I guess that's why I
>like opera better than musicals. Being that most musicals' music
>contain trite and stupid musical pieces...
Furthermore, if we're wrestling with vagaries in the plot of _Boheme_,
what will happen to us if we turn to _Il_Trovatore_? Or _Ariadne_auf_
Naxos_??
JSBayne
John Soward Bayne
aug...@nyc.pipeline.com(Augie) wrote:
>>Joan Livingston wrote:
>>> The residence, where Puccini is buried with a cigarette
>How much more could he have created had the cigarettes not killed him ....
>
>
>
Robert Louis Stevenson is buried in St Giles Cathedral
in Edinburgh, or at least there is a memorial there to
him, a bronze bas relief. In this portrait Stevenson
was smoking a cigarette, but later somebody altered the
sculpture so he's holding a pen.
So our guide told us at St Giles.
I have noticed that in nearly every picture one sees of
James Agee he is smoking.
I know this is off-topic, but I recently quit smoking
again.
JSBayne
Patrick Lamb
Giovanni Christen <gi...@mvseth.ethz.ch> wrote:
>The relevant question is: why does Colline sing a comical song in the mid
>of the most dramatical ending of operatic repertoire (at least to my ears
>- and, in this case, eyes) ?
>*That* is genius!
>Giovanni
The best reason/explanation I've heard is that Colline was himself
half in love with Mimi, and is singing his farewell to Mimi at the old
coat.
Obviously, YMMV!
Pat
Anita Hsiung
mus...@aol.com (Musipro) writes:
>
>
>1. [...] Musetta gives Marcello her earrings, presumably in order
>to sell them to obtain enough money to buy both a muff and medicine for
>Mimi, which is what they return with just before Mimi's death. [...]
Marcello pawns Musetta's earrings to buy medicine. Musetta goes back
to her house to get her muff for Mimi.
>It's not clear why Colline sells his overcoat--he returns with money,
>but hasn't bought anything with it. [...]
To pay the doctor when he arrives -- which, of course, becomes
unnecessary.
-- Anita --
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<> Anita Hsiung, Technical Consultant ahs...@domaincorp.com <>
<> Domain Solutions Corporation 408.453.7092 Fax: 408.453.5426 <>
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gaetan charlebois
In article <4vlef7$f...@info-server.bbn.com>, ahs...@bbn.com (Anita
Hsiung) wrote:
> mus...@aol.com (Musipro) writes:
> >
> >
> >1. [...] Musetta gives Marcello her earrings, presumably in order
> >to sell them to obtain enough money to buy both a muff and medicine for
> >Mimi, which is what they return with just before Mimi's death. [...]
>
> Marcello pawns Musetta's earrings to buy medicine. Musetta goes back
> to her house to get her muff for Mimi.
>
> >It's not clear why Colline sells his overcoat--he returns with money,
> >but hasn't bought anything with it. [...]
>
> To pay the doctor when he arrives -- which, of course, becomes
> unnecessary.
So they have a big party-like in Act I-with all that saved money, Rodolfo
wears the muff as a goofy hat and they all get blind on the medicine...or
is that Act V from the "Happy-Ending Version" of Boheme?
Forgive me...it's 3 am.
--
Gaetan Charlebois (Writer, Montreal)
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2346
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