Why did Peter Baumann leave Tangerine Dream?
Gary Hendershot
I've heard probably a dozen very different reasons why Peter Baumann
left -- or got kicked out of -- Tangerine Dream back in 1977/8.
What's the truth?
-Gary H-
ghen...@gary-hendershot.com
Houston, TX USA
David Hassell
Gary Hendershot wrote:
>
> I've heard probably a dozen very different reasons why Peter Baumann
> left -- or got kicked out of -- Tangerine Dream back in 1977/8.
>
> What's the truth?
>
The booklet that comes with the 5-CD Tangents set, written by Mark
Prendergast, gives some insight into this situation. Without typing in
excerpts, I'll summarize by saying that Peter Baumann left in November
1977 after the tour which produced the Encore album. Peter indicated in
his comments in the booklet that he wanted to go in other directions
musically. However, there had been a lot of tension between Edgar
Froese and him way before that. I gather from Edgar Froese's remarks in
the book that Peter didn't seem to share Edgar's work ethic. I also
gather that Peter was probably tiring of all the touring.
David Hassell
wombstate vector
i seriously doubt you will ever find a definitive answer to that question/
my 0.02 is that the cause of the leaving/and or "kicking-out" came from
Froese/ he is an egomaniacal bastard who's talent dried up during the
mid-70's/ christopher franke carried TD until he left in 86
thats pretty obvious when you listen to TD after Franke left/ poppy newage
pap
whereas Franke's solo work (especially his wonderful electro-symphonic work
for babylon 5) continues to evolve / the dream is still alive in Christopher
Franke
Every other member of TD who has left or been booted seems to flourish
artisticly once free of edgar's limited and bankrupt vision
it seems that these days the only person left that will put up with him is
his own son/ (did i do good daddy? what do you want me to do now daddy? you
are soooo great daddy!)
--
/:sys/disconnect.set\AI
Gary Hendershot wrote in message
<94C3FBFFA614E5C9.2DEB92C6...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>
>I've heard probably a dozen very different reasons why Peter Baumann
>left -- or got kicked out of -- Tangerine Dream back in 1977/8.
>
>What's the truth?
>
>
>
Steven Davies-Morris
Dave Matthews wrote in message <34CA8E...@carnfort.u-net.com>...
>I believe there may well have been a little "falling out" between Edgar
>and Peter. Nothing too acrimonious, though.
>
> As to Chris Franke's departure - I totally agree the band struggled
>after he left. And when Paul Haslinger departed, too after the "lazy"
>Melrose album (again, I suspect he and Edgar didn't see eye-to-eye on
>certain things) then the band bombed.
>
> Yes Chris Franke was the real creative genius behind the band during
>the period he was with it, I think. You can tell this if you listen to
>Edgar's solo material - much of it is dull and repetitive. And listen to
>the three previously unrelased tracks on the "70-80" compilation -
>Chris' track ("Chimes and Chains") stands way about Edgar's dreary,
>unimaginitive "Barryl Blue" . (Admittedly Edgar's "Stuntman" album IS
>brilliant - did Chris help him out on that one?).
>
> Compare Edgar's solo stuff with the work Chris has done since he left
>TD - 'Pacific Coast Highway' was superb, I'm sure most would agree. And
>to be as successful in TV & film sountrack work as Chris has been takes
>talent. (Although I can't say I like *everything* Chris has done in that
>respect.)
>
> Moderen TD is too reliant on the machines - technical trickery before
>any real compositional skill. Ironically I still think the best track on
>'Tyranny of Beauty' is the re-recording of 'Stratosfear'! 9I liked
>'Bride in Cold Tears' too, though)
>
> The thing about "old", "classic" TD is that most tracks had their own
>unique "identity" - most "hardcore" fans could hear just a few seconds
>of a particular piece and identify it straight away ("Oh, that's 'Remote
>Viewing' from Exit", for example.). I don't think its possible to do
>that with their recent stuff - every track sounds pretty similar (well,
>they do to *me*, anyway!)
>
>--
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dave Matthews
I have nothing to offer on the *why*. But I do have (on vinyl) Peter
Baumann's excellent *Romance '76* album. Side 1 is three short
works, perhaps a little more structured than TD. Side 2 is one long
piece that uses an orchestra as well as PB's synths. Superb! Now
as soon as I get my turntable back from having it fixed, *Romance
'76* leaps to the top of the LP to CD-R conversion list...
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Now playing: Hawkwind *In Search Of Space* (2nd studio effort from
1970). Thanks to Dgasque for passing this one on to me.
Just played: Asgard *Imago Mundi* (Italian/German Marillion/IQ-ish
neo-prog with bigger balls).
Up next: Return To Forever *Romantic Warrior* (one of the all time
great *prog* classics -- a fusion band operating at its peak!)
Thomas Arena
I think it would be a mistake to discredit Froese's solo work. Please check
out "Beyond the Storm", a 2 cd retrospective that includes almost an hour of
unreleased material. These are old pieces that he dusted off, and in some
cases re-recorded or touched up. I think this is a must for any fan of
1977-1984 period TD. To call Christopher Franke the only creative genius in
TD is absurd. I think too many fans of old TD want to knock the more recent
stuff without really listening to it. I happen to enjoy both. Not everything
they put out these days is classic, but it is not all crap either. They
continue to produce the best new synth sounds out there. For a guy in his
mid fifties, Edgar is still going strong.
Mark W Roberts
While we are here...
I definately like what Chris is doing...even aquired an autographed
8x10 of him in front of his giant Moog IIIp system...heavily modified I
might add...this is the kind of music I strive to write myself...not
cloning or copying but inspired by, like the old T.D. IE: "Exit" great
stuff.
It's too bad anyone has a "falling out" in any band, but alas...I too
have gone through that with bands too...and hence the reason for my solo
efforts...the only person I can be disgruntled with is myself.
Anyway...has anybody found any Klaus Shulze stuff around...it's
difficult to locate, and mostly out of print. His older stuff was
reminiscent of the older TD...and fun to listen to.
Just rambling on...Mark
Steven Davies-Morris
Gary Hendershot wrote in message ...
>
>>
>> I have nothing to offer on the *why*. But I do have (on vinyl) Peter
>> Baumann's excellent *Romance '76* album. Side 1 is three short
>> works, perhaps a little more structured than TD. Side 2 is one long
>> piece that uses an orchestra as well as PB's synths. Superb! Now
>> as soon as I get my turntable back from having it fixed, *Romance
>> '76* leaps to the top of the LP to CD-R conversion list...
==
>
>"Romance '76" is/was available on CD. It's on Virgin (UK) CDV-2069.
>I would not be surprised if it is now out-of-print. I bought mine about
>nine years ago. Excellent album.
>
>
>
>
>/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
> CD on now: A Small Good Thing -- "Slim Westerns" (Soleilmoon)
> CD on next: Legendary Pink Dots -- "Sterre" (SPV)
>/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
Thanks, Gary. I shall inquire about it's availability. If it's in limbo
once again, I'll go CD-R. It's always been one of my favourite TD-
*family* albums; perhaps more so than all but a handful of real TD
releases.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Bat
In article <6adesr$i...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>, "wombstate vector"
<s...@geocities.com> wrote:
> i seriously doubt you will ever find a definitive answer to that question/
>
> my 0.02 is that the cause of the leaving/and or "kicking-out" came from
> Froese/ he is an egomaniacal bastard who's talent dried up during the
> mid-70's/ christopher franke carried TD until he left in 86
>
> thats pretty obvious when you listen to TD after Franke left/ poppy newage
> pap
>
> whereas Franke's solo work (especially his wonderful electro-symphonic work
> for babylon 5) continues to evolve / the dream is still alive in Christopher
> Franke
>
> Every other member of TD who has left or been booted seems to flourish
> artisticly once free of edgar's limited and bankrupt vision
Not true - Although the first solo release from PAUL HASLINGER wasn't too
good, the next one, World Without Rules has some very powerful stuff in it
- Stuff I've spun DJing which always gets the floor packed.
Bat
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Bat
And since there seems to be a lot of activity in this thread, does anyone
know the status of what was once rumored to as "going to be released last
year"... I'm talking about the soundtrack for "THE KEEP". If anyone has a
CD of this anywhere, even in bootleg form, I would be into getting a copy.
No, I'm not worried about asking publically as I would love for the
label(s)/owners involved to get their crap together and release this so I
can buy it...
I once asked Paul after a T.D. concert I saw in Los Angeles a few years
back and he just laughed and said it (the tapes) were tied up in some
studio mumbo jumbo - legal crap perhaps...
THE KEEP soundtrack is a brillant piece of work in my book - I just wish I
still had the Heavy Metal that had the article in it with them talking
about it. I have almost every HM dating back from the beginning but for
some reason, that one is gone :-(
Thomas Arena
Don't you think you are being a little harsh on Mr. Froese? Do you know him
personally, since you like to judge him so much? I doubt Baumann's departure
could have been on such bad terms considering his own record label (Private
Music) signed TD in 1988. That does not mean they were best of friends, but
it also does not mean they were bitter enemies either. I don't think their
music suffered at all once Baumann left. The albums "Force Majeure" and
"Tangram" are two of my favorites. Lets face it, every couple years TD would
change direction. And yes, it is Edgar's group, he is the founder. Come on,
the first 4 albums were basically an unformed, drug induced, pieced together
mess. There was a definite decision to change course. This then happened
several more times over the years. Not everyone will stay along for the
ride. Every era after that first change has produced some wonderful music,
always on the cutting edge in terms of synth sounds. I get about the same
pleasure listeneing to Tyranny of Beauty
and Optical Race as I do Stratosfear or Logos. Can some of it be called
poppy new age pap? Sure, but the same can be said of Franke. Does he have
some album with the word "Celestial" in it? I heard it described as new age
sounding. This is not a knock, just the truth. By the way, I also love
Pacific Coast Highway and Klemania.
wombstate vector wrote in message <6adesr$i...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>...
>>
>thats pretty obvious when you listen to TD after Franke left/ poppy newage
>pap
>
>whereas Franke's solo work (especially his wonderful electro-symphonic work
>for babylon 5) continues to evolve / the dream is still alive in
Christopher
>Franke
>
>Every other member of TD who has left or been booted seems to flourish
>artisticly once free of edgar's limited and bankrupt vision
>
>his own son/ (did i do good daddy? what do you want me to do now daddy? you
>are soooo great daddy!)
>--
>/:sys/disconnect.set\AI
>
>
e
>t>...
>>
>>I've heard probably a dozen very different reasons why Peter Baumann
>>left -- or got kicked out of -- Tangerine Dream back in 1977/8.
>>
>>What's the truth?
>>
>>
>>
Mack
I agree. Tangerine Dream sure went downhill after the mid 80s. I wouldn't buy
anything new without hearing it first. When they
were good, ( Poland, live 75, live 77) they were great. I have
some live fm shows from them in 77 and 80. There also is
a live TV concert with has a great, extended "Poland".
The worst thing Edgar did was tampering (adding keyboards to
the original tracks) with the 5 cd TD box set that came out a few years ago.
Dave Matthews
Cheers,
Dave Matthews
'New Avengers' site at:
http://www.carnfort.u-net.com/NewAvengers/intro.htm
'Professionals' site at:
http://www.carnfort.u-net.com/Professionals/intro.htm
Gary Hendershot
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<snip>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Anyway...has anybody found any Klaus Shulze stuff around...it's
> difficult to locate, and mostly out of print. His older stuff was
> reminiscent of the older TD...and fun to listen to.
=======================================================================
All of his older recordings (i.e. -- his '70s albums) are still in
print on CD, either on Brain (Germany) and/or Spalax (France) and/or
Virgin (UK) and/or Thunderbolt (UK). Of Note: The three Spalax issues
("Cyborg" 2-CD, "Irrlicht," and "Picture Music") are nicely done in
Digi-pack format.
Of course, Klaus Schulze was with Tangerine Dream briefly in their
beginnings, so was another German electronic legend -- Conrad Schnitzler.
/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
CD on now: A Small Good Thing -- "Slim Westerns" (Soleilmoon)
CD on next: Legendary Pink Dots -- "Sterre" (SPV)
/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
Gary Hendershot
>
> I have nothing to offer on the *why*. But I do have (on vinyl) Peter
> Baumann's excellent *Romance '76* album. Side 1 is three short
> works, perhaps a little more structured than TD. Side 2 is one long
> piece that uses an orchestra as well as PB's synths. Superb! Now
> as soon as I get my turntable back from having it fixed, *Romance
> '76* leaps to the top of the LP to CD-R conversion list...
==========================================================================
"Romance '76" is/was available on CD. It's on Virgin (UK) CDV-2069.
I would not be surprised if it is now out-of-print. I bought mine about
nine years ago. Excellent album.
JOHN DAVID JOHNSON
OK now you all got me booted up out of passive browsing for a
response. I gave some short answers as to why Bauman and Haslinger
left but a more detailed longer one about Mr. Franke which you can
read more about his side of the story at www.sonicimages.com
First off, if any of you are still interested in this string. All of
the questions here can be answered quite informatively from the side
of Edgar and company at the Tangerine Dream Website
http://www.netstore.de/tadream/ (they've recently made a new link but
this one still works)
Most of you have been rather harsh on dear Edgar. And you forget the
fact that there would be no Tangerine Dream without Edgar Froese. He
was the one who gave Mr. Franke his chance.
Mr. Franke basically did not want to leave Tangerine Dream but wanted
them to take a three year break because he was personally stressed out
and intimidated up and coming young artists. He also felt their
concept and work ethics were burned out and played out. It was Edgar
and Paul Haslinger decision to want to do another tour, which was the
1988 Optical Race tour. God I cannot believe it's almost ten years
now. Mr. Franke did not want any part of it. I cannot really blame
him. Artist do have the tendency and obligation to repeat themselves
to the point of boredom and a disasterous career train wreck.
Bauman left the group mainly to open a recording studio but he also
was into drugs and alcohol and had little bit of a mental problem from
my understanding. He notoriously sometimes disappeared and would show
up for gigs until later.
Paul left the group in 1991 because he was going to be drafted by the
Austrian military if he did not leave Vienna.
Concerning Edgar's solo work. On the one hand yes there are those that
cannot tolerate what he was doing with his solo work. But you know
what? We and you all look upon it in the wrong way. He was not trying
to form a solo career the way we think of an artist outside their
larger entity. He said he was making sound sculptures and
experimenting with new timbres that he brought back to TD. The
boringness that the ones who stated about in the other replies stems
from the limitability of the instruments at the time. However like all
artists technology can be a cruel tool for the artist that is not
hungry anymore. For when you are young and broke with a modest amount
of gear. all it really takes is the imagination and patients. That is
the problem with many of the elder statesman of the music world. They
do not want it like they used to thus the end result is disappointed
fans. By the same token I see many a people these days never giving
anybody a chance or listen. They hear five minutes of music and
declare oh it's not White Eagle or blah blah bluh blah.
In a world where I find less and less and less music I'm interested in
listening to than my own ( yes I've spent a lifetime listening to
everyone else's music, not mine). It's great that Edgar at 50 plus is
still willing to go out and wing it even on the road. Despite what
they may or may not create I think it's great and they he and TD blows
everyone else out of the water, if nothing else by their stature and
prescence. For what kind of world they represent in the future and
what they've represented in the past. They are cool.
Disclaimer: The term Mr. Franke was used because in Keyboard Magazine
issue January 1996 Edgar refers to him throughout the interview as Mr.
Franke. I affectionately and humorously refer to him here as Mr.
Peace all, John D. Johnson
Dave Matthews
Steven Davies-Morris wrote:
>
>
> I have nothing to offer on the *why*. But I do have (on vinyl) Peter
> Baumann's excellent *Romance '76* album. Side 1 is three short
> works, perhaps a little more structured than TD. Side 2 is one long
> piece that uses an orchestra as well as PB's synths. Superb! Now
> as soon as I get my turntable back from having it fixed, *Romance
> '76* leaps to the top of the LP to CD-R conversion list...
>
Yes and 'Transharmonic Nights' is good, too. But something went
terribly wrong with his latter two albums ('Repeat Repeta' and
'Strangers in the Night') - the worst 'pop' records I think I've ever
heard!!
Dave Matthews
Thomas Arena wrote:
>
> I think it would be a mistake to discredit Froese's solo work. Please
> check out "Beyond the Storm", a 2 cd retrospective that includes
> almost an hour of unreleased material.
It was precisely this material which made me discredit 'Beyond the
Storm' - most of it is dull and repetitive, IMHO. Of the tracks that are
re-recordings of previously available stuff, I didn't feel there was
sufficient decent material to merit spending money on the album! (There
ARE a few great tracks on it, though)
> To call Christopher Franke the only creative genius in TD is absurd.
Yes that's probably a fair point. BUT it certainly is true that once he
left, the band suffered artistically.
> I think too many fans of old TD want to knock the more recent
> stuff without really listening to it.
Maybe its because we feel the band don't listen to the fans. And their
music has become 'safe' and 'comfortable' - there's no desire to
experiment anymore or push back the borders. There's to be no more wild
and crazy albums like 'Cyclone' (which I absolutely love!!). Even when
their music arguably did become bland (ie 'Tangram' - which I also
thoroughly like, though I can understand why some fans don't) it only
lasted for one album - on the next release, they did something
completely different. This doesn't really happen anymore - they seem
content to stick with a very similar 'sound', stuck in a rut. We could
forgive them for a bland album once in a while... but to produce a whole
series of duffers....!
> Not everything they put out these days is classic, but it is not all
> crap either.
I don't think *any* of it's "classic", is it? You're right - it isn't
crap.... if any other band had produced such albums they would have been
highly rated. But we expect much better from a band of TD's standing -
it's all a far cry from the innovative, risk-taking group we remember
from not so very long ago.
I think the biggest sin they committed was to produce a 'dance album' -
a collection of "commercially-aware" versions of tracks that were bad
enough to begin with. TD bow to the pressure of music industry demands?
Oh dear - that would not have been in their vocabulary a few yaers ago.
Can you imagine if they had done a disco version of 'Force Majeure' in
1979?
Gary Hendershot
> Concerning Edgar's solo work. On the one hand yes there are those that
> cannot tolerate what he was doing with his solo work. But you know
> what? We and you all look upon it in the wrong way. He was not trying
> to form a solo career the way we think of an artist outside their
> larger entity. He said he was making sound sculptures and
> experimenting with new timbres that he brought back to TD.
=========================================================================
I really haven't heard much in the way of criticism about Froese's
solo recordings. I always thought the first four Edgar Froese albums
("Epsilon In Malaysian Pale," "Aqua," "Macula Transfer," and "Ages")
were all top-notch electronics excursions on par in quality with the
other mid/late '70s Tangerine Dream releases.
I just wish "Macula Transfer" and "Ages" would get reissued in their
entirety on CD.
/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
CD on now: Slowdive -- "Blue Day" (Creation)
CD on next: Peter Baumann -- "Romance '76" (Virgin)
Steven Davies-Morris
Dave Matthews wrote in message <34CB43...@carnfort.u-net.com>...
>Steven Davies-Morris wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have nothing to offer on the *why*. But I do have (on vinyl) Peter
>> Baumann's excellent *Romance '76* album. Side 1 is three short
>> works, perhaps a little more structured than TD. Side 2 is one long
>> piece that uses an orchestra as well as PB's synths. Superb! Now
>> as soon as I get my turntable back from having it fixed, *Romance
>> '76* leaps to the top of the LP to CD-R conversion list...
>>
>
>Yes and 'Transharmonic Nights' is good, too. But something went
>terribly wrong with his latter two albums ('Repeat Repeta' and
>'Strangers in the Night') - the worst 'pop' records I think I've ever
>heard!!
>
>Dave Matthews
Thanks for warning me about these...
SDM
Ralph Moonen
Dave Matthews <matt...@carnfort.u-net.com> verhelderde zijn standpunt
dmv.::
> Maybe its because we feel the band don't listen to the fans. And their
>music has become 'safe' and 'comfortable' - there's no desire to
>experiment anymore or push back the borders. There's to be no more wild
>and crazy albums like 'Cyclone' (which I absolutely love!!). Even when
>their music arguably did become bland (ie 'Tangram' - which I also
>thoroughly like, though I can understand why some fans don't) it only
>lasted for one album - on the next release, they did something
>completely different. This doesn't really happen anymore - they seem
>content to stick with a very similar 'sound', stuck in a rut. We could
>forgive them for a bland album once in a while... but to produce a whole
>series of duffers....!
I think it's also because they use more digital technology these days.
In the Virgin years and before, they used old analog equipment, which
wasn't very stable and accurate, and so lent warmth and
unpredictability to the music. Like an acoustical instrument never
sounds the same twice, neither did these synths. Nowadays, the
accuratesse and stability of the synths kill that feeling in the
music, and I think, the inspiration to make stuff magic.
--Ralph
Dave Matthews
Gary Hendershot wrote:
>
> I really haven't heard much in the way of criticism about Froese's
> solo recordings. I always thought the first four Edgar Froese albums
> ("Epsilon In Malaysian Pale," "Aqua," "Macula Transfer," and "Ages")
> were all top-notch electronics excursions on par in quality with the
> other mid/late '70s Tangerine Dream releases.
Well I have criticised some of Edgar's work, but, you're quite right
there are some excellent tracks on 'Aqua' and 'Epsilon'. I've yet to
hear 'Ages' and 'Macula Transfer'
I would highly recommend 'Stuntman' (from 1979). 'Pinnacles' (from '83)
is a very dull affair, though, IMHO.
And I still think 'Beyond the Storm' is very disappointing - I just did
not like any of the new material there.
Burley Wright
Are you referring to the "Tangents: 1973 - 1983" from 1994 or the "Dream Roots
Collection" from 1996? I had always entertained the thought of buying the Tangents
box if I saw it for a decent price (never see Dream Roots in the states). Should
Froese's "tampering" make me reconsider?
Burl
Mike Dickson
In article <34cbab80...@news.demon.nl>
ra...@fuckspam.tink.demon.nl wrote...
> I think it's also because they use more digital technology these days.
> In the Virgin years and before, they used old analog equipment, which
> wasn't very stable and accurate
Froese was on BBC Radio One recently in a special programme all about
the Mellotron. He said that it was no longer a 'wild ride through the
jungle' anymore, now that digital/MIDI technology has got to the stage
where the music could be nearly perfect. He spoke (with a detectable
fondness) about having to retune their Mellotrons ten times a gig
through a monitor signal coming through their headphones, whilst playing
the rest of the show.
Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland
fax 0131-271-1551 - Columnated Ruins Domino - Mellotron M400 #996
Robert Hilz
Mark W Roberts wrote:
>
> Anyway...has anybody found any Klaus Shulze stuff around...it's
> difficult to locate, and mostly out of print. His older stuff was
> reminiscent of the older TD...and fun to listen to.
Look at his webpage
There you will find some mail-order companies who sell ("old") CDs from
Klaus.
Best wishes, Robert
dave lane
Bat (b...@cyberden.com) wrote:
> And since there seems to be a lot of activity in this thread, does anyone
> know the status of what was once rumored to as "going to be released last
> year"... I'm talking about the soundtrack for "THE KEEP". If anyone has a
> CD of this anywhere, even in bootleg form, I would be into getting a copy.
You already have a copy of the Blue Moon bootleg that you got from
me in a tape trade a couple of years ago, in which you sent me some
statickey, unplayable piece of crap recycled cassette that you insisted
was fine even though it sounded equally bad on the 5 different decks
that I tried playing it on, remember? Or was that a different
b...@cyberden.com?
Anyway, the legitimate soundtrack is supposed to be released early
this year, according to the TD website.
--Dave
Mark W Roberts
Many thanks for the information, I really appreciate it.
IIIc
Brett Laniosh
I think I gave up on TD at the same time as most other folk here.
for me Le Parc was their last great work. I bought Underwater Sunlight
and Optical Race but found them both bland. But there were weak
moments earlier on, Stratosfear comes to mind.
Apart from the classic Froese, Franke, Bauman era I actually think
Froese and Franke did a good job and I had nothing but respect for
Schmolling.
The anti-Froese argument simply doesn't add up for me. Macula Transfer
and Ages are as good as any TD I've heard.
Someone mentioned Klaus Schulze. Wonderful music, Anyone who likes
classic era TD should head for KS if they haven't already done so.
His stuff is STILL available. CDNow even have the classic double "X"
on offer. Has KS made a bad record?
--
Brett Laniosh Redditch & Bromsgrove CAMRA Acorn + PC User
<mailto:br...@g4nzk.demon.co.uk> <http://www.g4nzk.demon.co.uk/>
An oblique strategy -
Only one element of each kind
JW
is 1-800-CDTAPES
Andy Wing
Ah, yes, the perennial "Has Froese Inc. lost it" thread :-)
In article <34CBB8...@carnfort.u-net.com>,
Dave Matthews <matt...@carnfort.u-net.com> wrote:
>Gary Hendershot wrote:
>>
>> I really haven't heard much in the way of criticism about Froese's
>> solo recordings. I always thought the first four Edgar Froese albums
>> ("Epsilon In Malaysian Pale," "Aqua," "Macula Transfer," and "Ages")
>> were all top-notch electronics excursions on par in quality with the
>> other mid/late '70s Tangerine Dream releases.
>
> Well I have criticised some of Edgar's work, but, you're quite right
>there are some excellent tracks on 'Aqua' and 'Epsilon'. I've yet to
>hear 'Ages' and 'Macula Transfer'
Macula, IIRC, is one of the more desired CD reissue wants. It's one
of my faves and was the first TD genre recording I ever bought (back in
'82)
>I would highly recommend 'Stuntman' (from 1979). 'Pinnacles' (from '83)
>is a very dull affair, though, IMHO.
A second on Stuntman. Pinnacles I wouldn't call dull. It's not
exciting either. I'd best describe it as pleasant, good to listen to
while reading the latest issue of Option :-)
-----------
reply to: fibo a@t op d0t net Thanks, spammers, for ruining the internet.
--
Politics is not the art of persuasion, it's the science of selfishness.
"Speeding down the misinformation superhighway"
Big Brother is not watching you, you're watching Big Brother, all 181 channels
Brett Laniosh
In article <ant26193...@g4nzk.demon.co.uk>, Brett Laniosh
<URL:mailto:br...@g4nzk.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I think I gave up on TD at the same time as most other folk here.
> for me Le Parc was their last great work. I bought Underwater Sunlight
> and Optical Race but found them both bland. But there were weak
> moments earlier on, Stratosfear comes to mind.
Sorry, I didn't mean that. I LIKE stratosfear; it is Cyclone with
Steve Joliff's vocals that I dislike.
--
Brett Laniosh Redditch & Bromsgrove CAMRA Acorn + PC User
<mailto:br...@g4nzk.demon.co.uk> <http://www.g4nzk.demon.co.uk/>
An oblique strategy -
Emphasize repetitions
David Hassell
Burley Wright wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the "Tangents: 1973 - 1983" from 1994 or the "Dream Roots
> Collection" from 1996? I had always entertained the thought of buying the Tangents
> box if I saw it for a decent price (never see Dream Roots in the states). Should
> Froese's "tampering" make me reconsider?
>
> Burl
I think Froese's additions/remastering of the material on Tangents is
fantastic. The recording strength is much stronger, making it great to
play LOUD! :) Plus, the music takes on such a different character that
it's like getting 5 brand new CD's of music rather than just a bunch of
stuff you already own. The booklet is very informative, although it's
aggravating to read due to the font and design of it. I highly
recommend the set.
David Hassell
Dave Matthews
Burley Wright wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the "Tangents: 1973 - 1983" from 1994 or the
> "Dream Roots Collection" from 1996? I had always entertained the
> thought of buying the Tangents box if I saw it for a decent price
> (never see Dream Roots in the states). Should Froese's "tampering"
> make me reconsider?
Well when Tangents was released most fans looked upon it very
favourably and I must say I like it. Of course, nothing could ever
replace the original pieces but Tangents does offer some very worthy
alternatives. (In fact the rerecordings of the Pergamon pieces are
arguably better than the originals!) Unlike their more recent "rehashes"
Tangents does not try to turn the tracks into "dance music".
The fifth CD in the box-set is a dud, though - this contains previously
unreleased stuff but I reckon it should have stayed that way!
Overall, though - and remember I'm an "old" fan - I really like
Tangents.
Forget 'Dream Roots' - it's a waste of money, IMHO.
Craig Chambers
I just recently bought the "Romance '76" CD, which I had been longing to
replace also. I do think it is out of print now though. Check with Kees
Aerts of Groove Records (Netherlands) http://mcs.nl/groove/. They have the
most comprehensive list of Electronic on the web. Very reliable, I have
spent probably $1K + in the last year just acquiring CD's I knew existed and
couldn't find stateside, as well as some I did not know existed. If you
find something you like, try out some of the "Wavestar/John Dyson" stuff
too. Along the same lines as PB and late '70 TD. Let me know what you
think. BTW, if you order something, tell Kees I sent you, I don't get a
kickback or anything, but I have been telling him how much I love his
catalogue, and I preach his company as THE pre-eminent place for real
mail-order.
Craig
Steven Davies-Morris wrote in message <6aeoi0$e0l$1...@news01.deltanet.com>...
>Gary Hendershot wrote in message ...
>>
>>>
>>> I have nothing to offer on the *why*. But I do have (on vinyl) Peter
>>> Baumann's excellent *Romance '76* album. Side 1 is three short
>>> works, perhaps a little more structured than TD. Side 2 is one long
>>> piece that uses an orchestra as well as PB's synths. Superb! Now
>>> as soon as I get my turntable back from having it fixed, *Romance
>>> '76* leaps to the top of the LP to CD-R conversion list...
>>========================================================================
>==
>>
>>"Romance '76" is/was available on CD. It's on Virgin (UK) CDV-2069.
>>I would not be surprised if it is now out-of-print. I bought mine about
>>nine years ago. Excellent album.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
>> CD on now: A Small Good Thing -- "Slim Westerns" (Soleilmoon)
>> CD on next: Legendary Pink Dots -- "Sterre" (SPV)
>>/*-----------------------------------------------------------------*/
>>
>>
>>-Gary H-
>>ghen...@gary-hendershot.com
>>Houston, TX USA
>
>
>Thanks, Gary. I shall inquire about it's availability. If it's in limbo
>once again, I'll go CD-R. It's always been one of my favourite TD-
>*family* albums; perhaps more so than all but a handful of real TD
>releases.
>
>Regards
>Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
>
>
Craig Chambers
Dave Matthews wrote in message <34CB4D...@carnfort.u-net.com>...
>
> I think the biggest sin they committed was to produce a 'dance album' -
>a collection of "commercially-aware" versions of tracks that were bad
>enough to begin with. TD bow to the pressure of music industry demands?
While I do not necessarily like the "Dance Mix" stuff, I think the root is
Jerome's age and the current music scene in Germany. It has been documented
that JF likes to go "clubbing" on the Berlin dance scene...I think this is
just his alter ego taking over, and dad's allowing him to do some creative
things with their collective output. Not a "sell-out" to the recording
industry. JMHO.
>Oh dear - that would not have been in their vocabulary a few yaers ago.
>Can you imagine if they had done a disco version of 'Force Majeure' in
>1979?
>
Craig Chambers
Brett Laniosh wrote in message ...
>Someone mentioned Klaus Schulze. Wonderful music, Anyone who likes
>classic era TD should head for KS if they haven't already done so.
>His stuff is STILL available. CDNow even have the classic double "X"
>on offer. Has KS made a bad record?
>
NO! I think I own probably 100 of his. If you really want to be blown away
check out "In Blue" from 1995. Whoa!! Synths, Sequencers, Moogs, and
everything but the kitchen sink in analog and digital. Features Manuel
Gottsching's (Ashra) screaming multi-layered guitar work on 45 minute track
"Return of the Tempel".
Craig Burley
Brett Laniosh <br...@g4nzk.demon.co.uk> writes:
> The anti-Froese argument simply doesn't add up for me. Macula Transfer
> and Ages are as good as any TD I've heard.
Well, "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale" is almost *definitive* TD, IMO.
"Macula Transfer" I love as well, but it's a bit off the TD path,
as is "Ages". (And "Aqua" is pretty good and on the TD path.)
All of these albums are ones with which I would not part. I've
never "gotten into" the remaining Froese albums, though they're
not bad IMO.
--
"Practice random senselessness and act kind of beautiful."
James Craig Burley, Software Craftsperson bur...@gnu.org
JDJ
:-) Let's face it. There all a bunch of spoiled brats just like
their progressive rock counterparts (yes, crimson etc.)and they can get back
together, reform, repackage, and manipulate fans and audiences alike
whenever they or their mangers and record comapnaies want to. Right?
Wink & Grin :-)
JDJ
Mike Dickson wrote in message ...
>In article <34cbab80...@news.demon.nl>
>ra...@fuckspam.tink.demon.nl wrote...
>
He spoke (with a detectable
>fondness) about having to retune their Mellotrons ten times a gig
It was things like this that brought the best range of possibilities and
risk that made recorded music and live concerts of the past better than what
you get today. Not that the instability of the instruments was spectacular
but the artist/musician had to work to get what they wanted and everyone
including the player benefitted from the spontanaiety of it all. The ironic
thing is that technology today has brought a million more options that can
make this sort of thing better than ever before but everyone would rather
use it to be safe and perfect.
JDJ
Joseph Irhimeh
I've recently discovered Manuel Gottsching (Ahsra) - about 3 years ago,
and I must say after getting over 10 of his CDs, I am wondering
why is he not so popular as Schulze or Tangerince Dream? IMHO Some
of his material just blows them away...
JW
artists? Like; Didier Bocquet, Richard Vimal, Space Art, Decko, You,
Zadri & Mo, Wolfgang Bock, Wolfgang Duren, Lambert Ringlage, Mario
Schonwalder, Bas B Broekhuis, Michael Garrison, any comments? I always
found these artists more interesteing than Tangerine Dream, don't get me
wrong I like T.D., but there are other people to listen to, so if you
can find these try them you might lkie them....by the way does anyone
know if any of the Didier Bocquet titles are on CD???
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
Dave Matthews (matt...@carnfort.u-net.com) wrote:
<of recent TD>
: I think the biggest sin they committed was to produce a 'dance album' -
: a collection of "commercially-aware" versions of tracks that were bad
: enough to begin with. TD bow to the pressure of music industry demands?
: Can you imagine if they had done a disco version of 'Force Majeure' in
: 1979?
Majeure" already is. I suppose they could have gotten in some female
singers to go "oooh" over top of everything.
tim gueguen 101867
Paolo G. Cordone
In article <34CB43...@carnfort.u-net.com>,
Dave Matthews <matt...@carnfort.u-net.com> wrote:
> But something went
> terribly wrong with his latter two albums ('Repeat Repeta' and
> 'Strangers in the Night') - the worst 'pop' records I think I've ever
> heard!!
Yes, I think Robert Palmer's influence spoiled the hwole thing there :-|
Paolo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cordone-Howard pam...@indigo.ie
Dublin, Ireland http://indigo.ie/~pamolo/index.html
Paolo G. Cordone
In article <34CB4D...@carnfort.u-net.com>,
Dave Matthews <matt...@carnfort.u-net.com> wrote:
> TD bow to the pressure of music industry demands?
> Oh dear - that would not have been in their vocabulary a few yaers ago.
> Can you imagine if they had done a disco version of 'Force Majeure' in
> 1979?
Actually, this reminds me of something...I don't know how many of you were
TD fans in 1979, but I remember that when both Cyclone and Force Majeur
came out, they were badly criticised in many European countries, especially
because of the vocals and percussions.
Initially it was a shock for me, too, to hear Steve Jolliffe sing on the
first side of Cyclone, but, as someone else here said, it is a fantastic
and wild album.
By the way, did you notice that the suites (tracks which were taking a
whole LP side) are not that common these days? Despite the fact that we now
have CDs, they seem to have lost popularities. Alpha Centauri, Atem, Zeit,
Phaedra, Rubycon, Ricochet, Encore, Cyclone, Force Majeure, Tangram, and
lots of the following TD's albums all had suites, but, as far as I know (I
stopped following TD just about after Optical Race) they no longer create
that sort of compositions.
Paolo G. Cordone
In article
<558040E128BC9087.D31417AF...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
ghen...@gary-hendershot.com (Gary Hendershot) wrote:
> I always thought the first four Edgar Froese albums
> ("Epsilon In Malaysian Pale," "Aqua," "Macula Transfer," and "Ages")
> were all top-notch electronics excursions on par in quality with the
> other mid/late '70s Tangerine Dream releases.
Yes, they were excellent albums. Gosh, it was a different time, then,
though. Imagine that inthe late seventies the label Brain even released an
LP (named Electronic Dreams) with on one side Panorphelia and Upland (from
Aqua--not the most commercially viable pieces), and on the second side
Maroubra Bay (from EIMP) played backwards!
Imagine doing this now?
Paolo G. Cordone
In article <6an98a$r...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
"JDJ" <mr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> The ironic
> thing is that technology today has brought a million more options that can
> make this sort of thing better than ever before but everyone would rather
> use it to be safe and perfect.
I also think that the digital technic has brought one of the worst things
ever: defaults. Now, you just need to turn the synth on and set the
defaults and you have all the usual sounds already made. back then, you had
to actually move sliders and unplu wires to get wicked effects and
waveforms...there was much more incentive to experimentation than there is
today.
lorch john
In article <34CBB449...@knology.net>,
Burley Wright <bur...@knology.net> wrote:
>Are you referring to the "Tangents: 1973 - 1983" from 1994 or the "Dream Roots
>Collection" from 1996? I had always entertained the thought of buying the Tangents
>box if I saw it for a decent price (never see Dream Roots in the states). Should
>Froese's "tampering" make me reconsider?
I avoided that set for several years after reading about his
manipulations. I finally found it for $25 used (a reasonable price, I
felt) and snapped it up. It's certainly interesting to hear the changes
Edgar made. Some tracks are untouched, some have additional parts added,
and some have been completely re-recorded. Why? Who knows? I regard it
as being interesting, but not essential unless you are a completist (which
I was until very recently, like Tyranny of Beauty).
John Lorch, International Student Advisor phone 410-455-2624
International Education Services, 222 Admin. Bldg. email lo...@umbc.edu
UMBC (University of Maryland Baltimore County) fax 410-455-1130
1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore MD 21250 USA
mathew
Dave Matthews <matt...@carnfort.u-net.com> wrote:
> Yes Chris Franke was the real creative genius behind the band during
> the period he was with it, I think. You can tell this if you listen to
> Edgar's solo material - much of it is dull and repetitive.
Though I'd count "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale" as the exception; it's the
one Froese solo album I've bothered to get on CD.
(Actually, I'd buy "Macula Transfer" if I could get that on CD. I love
"IF 810".)
mathew
--
404 @ <URL:http://www.pobox.com/%7Emeta/>
Pedro Sena
mathew wrote in message
<1d3n717.1or...@d213.b64.cmb.ma.ultra.net>...
>Though I'd count "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale" as the exception; it's the
>one Froese solo album I've bothered to get on CD.
>(Actually, I'd buy "Macula Transfer" if I could get that on CD. I love
>"IF 810".)
Considering when the stuff was written, they are magnificent solo albums...
I just played AQUA, and AGES, and you know what?.... I can not find too many
electronic artists that have created such nice material, since..... heck, I
keep thinking about the message I just wrote about solos.. I can not find
any in these albums... got to love the music, and understand the imagery I
guess, or it is all just notes. At that time, it wasn't, and these albums
are a perfect reminder of that. And the synths were awfully hard to control
then, too.....
J. Mcglinchey
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Paolo G. Cordone wrote:
> Initially it was a shock for me, too, to hear Steve Jolliffe sing on the
> first side of Cyclone, but, as someone else here said, it is a fantastic
> and wild album.
Cyclone was okay, and I remembered being initially shocked to hear the
vocals, but overall I was still a bit disappointed. Sounds very much
like Pink Floyd's Animals to me: the vocoder, moderate-tempo passages with
Rick Wright-type moogs, etc. Of course, (IMO) compared to LE PARC, which
I bought at the same time, it sounds like Beethoven's 9th... :)
Joe M.
U of Washington
Craig Chambers
>
>I've recently discovered Manuel Gottsching (Ahsra) - about 3 years ago,
>and I must say after getting over 10 of his CDs, I am wondering
>why is he not so popular as Schulze or Tangerince Dream? IMHO Some
>of his material just blows them away...
Yeah me too. The MG's synth stuff is definitely not as complex or
multi-layered as TD or KS, but it generally just sets the rhythm for his
intense guitar excursions. If you have a chance, check out "The Private
Tapes" which is six 78 minute CD's that include live and unreleased material
and some of the most incredible guitar/electronic music ever made. If an
Edgar solo ever sent chills up your spine on first hearing, MG's solos are
all over this set. And they are intense.
Also, I just saw on the web at KS site that Ashra has a new live CD coming
out next month from a rare concert given in Holland last fall. Details at
http://www.klaus-schulze.com/
Andy Wing
In article <6ann9b$1...@newsops.execpc.com>, JW <j...@eside.com> wrote:
>hey instead of this Tangerine Dream stuff, how about the other Synth
>artists? Like; Didier Bocquet
Voyage Cerebral is excellent.
>Space Art
I have 'Playback', it's listenable, but not great, imho.
>Lambert Ringlage
Here's a name I've *never* heard. Tell us about his releases,
titles, dates, etc...
>Mario Schonwalder
'Eye of the Chameleon' is a classic in the KS tradition. Awesome
sounds and sequences and one of my all time faves!
>Michael Garrison
A big time sequencer head. Has several good releases including
'Eclipse', 'Prisms' and 'Rhythm of Life'.
>any comments? I always
>found these artists more interesteing than Tangerine Dream, don't get me
>wrong I like T.D., but there are other people to listen to, so if you
>can find these try them you might lkie them....by the way does anyone
>know if any of the Didier Bocquet titles are on CD???
Looks like a job for...... WAYSIDE MAN! :-)