Early Marillion Songs
jlca...@amherst.bitnet
Well, it is nice to learn that I'm not the only one listening to Marillion.
I'm still looking for a reference to an article interviewing Fish. The article
covered the real life stuff behind his lyrics, etc. If you know of it, let me
know. I don't want to resort to spending time in our library, after all... :^'
A few years back I bought a live album of theirs, "Real to Reel" (which is
still a great album...). The album contained a few songs off of "Script" and
"Fugazi", as well as Cinderella Search, and Market Square Heroes. Were these
songs issued on a pre-"Script.." album, or were they strictly songs preformed
live? (i.e. Am I missing one of their albums? Aw, man......)
Much obliged.
James Carroll (is JLCARROLL)
Amherst College (is AMHERST (bitnet))
Disclaimer is not much better than datclaimer.
Tanguy Kervahut
first single. Both songs are found on the album _B sides themselves_, which
is as it says all their B'sides never released on an album, plus a live
version of a song not on any album, _Margaret_, which is the only bad song
on this album, and the album lasts 60 minutes+, so it's really worth it.
On it there is a 17min song, _Grendel_, which is GREAT, reminds me of the
good old Genesis with Gabriel. _Cinderella Search_ is good on B'sides, but
it is better on Real to reel, where it's longer with a bit more lyrics.
By the ways, half of Real to reel was recorded in Montreal...
I hope this answer your question, if you have any other one just ask.
Tanguy-
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Tanguy Kervahut | "Hello, is there anybody in there? |
| (kerv...@iro.umontreal.ca) | just nod if you can hear me, |
| | is there anyone at home?" - PF |
Jeffrey C. Burka
>On it there is a 17min song, _Grendel_, which is GREAT, reminds me of the
>good old Genesis with Gabriel.
Gee. I tend to think of it as a rip-off of "Supper's Ready."
Not that "Grendel" isn't fantastic, mind you.
Jeff
|Jeffrey C. Burka | "On the outskirts of nowhere |
|jbu...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | on the ringroad to somewhere, |
|jbu...@amber.ucs.indiana.edu | on the verge of indecision..." --Fish |
Jim Kasprzak
>Marillion dudes and dudettes:
>
> A few years back I bought a live album of theirs, "Real to Reel" (which is
>still a great album...). The album contained a few songs off of "Script" and
>"Fugazi", as well as Cinderella Search, and Market Square Heroes. Were these
>songs issued on a pre-"Script.." album, or were they strictly songs preformed
>live? (i.e. Am I missing one of their albums? Aw, man......)
tracks were collected into an album entiled "B'sides Themselves". In other
words, it looks like you're missing an album. (-:
--
Jim Kasprzak kasp...@mts.rpi.edu (internet)
RPI, Troy, NY user...@rpitsmts.bitnet
"A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission." -Rush
Jim Kasprzak
>In article <1990Jun23.0...@IRO.UMontreal.CA> kerv...@chukota.UUCP (Tanguy Kervahut) writes:
>
>>On it there is a 17min song, _Grendel_, which is GREAT, reminds me of the
>>good old Genesis with Gabriel.
>
>Gee. I tend to think of it as a rip-off of "Supper's Ready."
>
have listened to Supper's Ready uncountable times (in my younger, more foolish
days I could recite all the words from memory). I've been a fan of Marillion
for almost as long, and have listened to Grendel quite a few times. Now, here's
what I can't undersatnd: what is the connection between Grendel and Supper's
Ready?
The only similarities I've noticed are that they are both long (though
Supper's Ready beats Grendel by a good six or seven minutes) and they both
contain a section in 9/8 time. I don't think this is enough of a basis to
say that Grendel is a 'rip-off' or a 'copy' or even 'reminiscent' of
Supper's Ready. Take a look at the subject matter: Supper's Ready is based
(very loosely) on the biblical apocalypse, while Grendel is based (a bit
more closely) on the old English epic of the same name. That's quite a
temporal and cultural gap.
So what am I missing here? I like both songs, but I have to wonder what it
is that people see in them that makes them think of the two songs as being
so much alike.
Richard Flamsholt S0rensen
In article <48...@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> jbu...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>>On it there is a 17min song, _Grendel_, which is GREAT, reminds me of the
>>good old Genesis with Gabriel.
>
>Gee. I tend to think of it as a rip-off of "Supper's Ready."
>
>Not that "Grendel" isn't fantastic, mind you.
I've never listened to the early Genesis, but ever since I got
"seriously" involved in Marillion (that is, got hold on "The Script",
"Market Square Heroes" and another book, whose title escapes me) I've
learned, that in the beginning, everybody thought them a rip-off of
Genesis, as Jeffrey says.
Since these early Genesis/Gabriel acts apparantly had a great
influence on Marillion and otherwise appears to be worth listening to,
I've decided to try them out. However, since they've made quite a lot
of albums the question is - where should I start? (I'm sure you've all
got *lots* of ideas ;-)
Oh, and BTW - I tried to rank the Marillion albums (my $0.02:), but
I simply couldn't decide. I guess every one of them is unique and
depending on which mood you're in, they're all "the best" ... (as for
songs, I think Grendel nearly hits that number one spot).
Bye now!
Richard
--
/Richard Flamsholt
ric...@iesd.auc.dk
Lawrence D. Matson
(Richard Flamsholt S0rensen) says:
>
> Oh, and BTW - I tried to rank the Marillion albums (my $0.02:), but
>I simply couldn't decide. I guess every one of them is unique and
>depending on which mood you're in, they're all "the best" ... (as for
>songs, I think Grendel nearly hits that number one spot).
In case you're wondering, I asked Mark Kelly his 'favourite' album. Since
he doesn't listen to any of them, he interpreted "favorite" as "the one that
comes closest to accomplishing what we wanted to accomplish." The answer...
A TIE between Season's End and Misplaced Childhood.
Next is Script for a Jester's Tear
Then,Clutching at Straws
followed by Fugazi.
Note no mention of the other albums--I guess they don't count in his mind.
(I usually don't count them as such though myself, now that I think about
it, but Grendel is definitely one of my favorite tracks, too!) M.K. said
they never play the older stuff at all anymore--too bad.
- Larry
LDM102@PSUVM IS LAWRENCE D. MATSON,
A GRAD STUDENT IN THE PENN STATE DEPARTMENT OF GEOSCIENCES.
"IT IS WELL THAT WAR IS SO TERRIBLE OR WE SHOULD GROW TOO FOND OF IT."
- ROBERT E. LEE
The 12th Cat
> Since these early Genesis/Gabriel acts apparantly had a great
> influence on Marillion and otherwise appears to be worth listening to,
> I've decided to try them out. However, since they've made quite a lot
> of albums the question is - where should I start? (I'm sure you've all
> got *lots* of ideas ;-)
I also started listening to old Genesis because I like Marillion and head
they were similar (plus that I like newer Genesis, too). Anyway, I don't
agree that Marillion sounds like Genesis (except in that part of "Grendel"),
but they're still great. One thing, though... I like the albums right
after Peter Gabriel left somewhat more than the albums with Gabriel. "Trick
Of The Tale" and "Wind And Wuthering" are just better musically (if not
lyrically). Gabriel seemed to spend too much time being funny and quirky,
rather than just playing the music. Not that I hate the earlier albums; I
just prefer the middle era. I also think Gabriel is much better without
Genesis (pretty strange...)
Anyone agree?
The 12th Cat
> The only similarities I've noticed are that they are both long (though
> Supper's Ready beats Grendel by a good six or seven minutes) and they both
> contain a section in 9/8 time. I don't think this is enough of a basis to
> say that Grendel is a 'rip-off' or a 'copy' or even 'reminiscent' of
> Supper's Ready. Take a look at the subject matter: Supper's Ready is based
> (very loosely) on the biblical apocalypse, while Grendel is based (a bit
> more closely) on the old English epic of the same name. That's quite a
> temporal and cultural gap.
It's not really that "Grendel" is a copy of "Supper's Ready"; it's just that
they two 9/8 parts sound pretty much the same. The rest of the parts of the
two songs are not very similar (which is why I fail to see why Marillion
even bothered to put it in, though I do like their version better.)
(please don't tell me the reason they sound alike is because they're both in
9/8 time. I don't know much (anything) about timing, but I don't think that
all songs in 4/4 time sound the same (do they?))
Richard Flamsholt S0rensen
In article <90176.015...@psuvm.psu.edu> LDM...@psuvm.psu.edu (Lawrence D. Matson) writes:
>In article <..> Richard Flamsholt S0rensen <that's me> says:
>>
>> Oh, and BTW - I tried to rank the Marillion albums (my $0.02:), but
>>I simply couldn't decide. I guess every one of them is unique and
>>depending on which mood you're in, they're all "the best" ... (as for
>>songs, I think Grendel nearly hits that number one spot).
> In case you're wondering, I asked Mark Kelly his 'favourite' album. Since
>he doesn't listen to any of them, he interpreted "favorite" as "the one that
>comes closest to accomplishing what we wanted to accomplish." The answer...
>A TIE between Season's End and Misplaced Childhood.
>Next is Script for a Jester's Tear
>Then,Clutching at Straws
>followed by Fugazi.
I got a letter from Jeffrey C. Burka, where he - amongst other
things - mentioned, that he thought _Season's End_ was the *worst*
Marillion album. I'll have to admit, that when I wrote that I couldn't
rank them, 'cause they were all "the best", I wasn't even *thinking*
about _Season's End_ - but if I had, I'd rank it lowest, too.
To me, it's not a Marillion album. To me, it's a bunch of songs,
some pretty good, others mediocre but only a few that comes close to
the "real" Marillion. I own the album for the sake of the name, not
the music.
Having said that, I'm quite surprised that Mark Kelly would rank
_Season's End_ that high. Perhaps he should start listening to them ;-)
--
/Richard Flamsholt
ric...@iesd.auc.dk
Atro Tossavainen
>still a great album...). The album contained a few songs off of "Script" and
>"Fugazi", as well as Cinderella Search, and Market Square Heroes. Were these
>songs issued on a pre-"Script.." album, or were they strictly songs preformed
>live? (i.e. Am I missing one of their albums? Aw, man......)
Cinderella Search and Market Square Heroes were previously
released as singles, and the original versions (at least to
my knowledge) can be found on B'sides Themselves, the singles
album.
.
.
--
Atthe Tossavainen, 1 D 18 Sarvastonkaari, SF - 00840 HELSINKI, FINLAND
at...@clinet.fi, at...@vaxi.apu.fi
Guitarist, bassist, singer, prog/fusion/metal/anything ;-->
Borgeson
>ric...@iesd.auc.dk (Richard Flamsholt S0rensen) writes:
>
>One thing, though... I like the albums right
>after Peter Gabriel left somewhat more than the albums with Gabriel. "Trick
>Of The Tale" and "Wind And Wuthering" are just better musically (if not
>lyrically).
My 2 sense: I think the "Middle Period" of Genesis albums is the best.
To me, that includes everything made from Selling England by the Pound to
Seconds Out, which covers the time in which Genesis matured with Gabriel and
took off in popularity with the discovery of Phil Collins as a lead vocalist
to the last Genesis album on which Steve Hackett appeared. Thereafter,
they became more of a pop band.
Coincidentally, I've been listening more to early Genesis lately. I just
bought Foxtrot on CD the other day. I like the early stuff, too, but I think
the material suffers a little bit from early '70's production quality and
a few other things.
>Gabriel seemed to spend too much time being funny and quirky,
>rather than just playing the music. Not that I hate the earlier albums; I
>just prefer the middle era. I also think Gabriel is much better without
>Genesis (pretty strange...)
>
>Anyone agree?
I imagine the story of Gabriel's departure from the group has been hashed
out quite a bit in this newsgroup at one time or another, so it probably
isn't worth doing it again. However, I agree with the above. I'll just
let it go at that.
brett
Jim Kasprzak
>
> Since these early Genesis/Gabriel acts apparantly had a great
>influence on Marillion and otherwise appears to be worth listening to,
>I've decided to try them out. However, since they've made quite a lot
>of albums the question is - where should I start? (I'm sure you've all
>got *lots* of ideas ;-)
>
Personally, I'd reccommend starting with "Foxtrot". This includes some
of their best cosmic weirdness, like the epic "Supper's Ready" which
people for some reason unknown to me like to compare to "Grendel", the
simple but haunting "Time Table", the sweeping grandeur of "Watcher
Of The Skies", and a cynical tale of a possible future called "Get 'Em
Out By Friday".
A good companion album to this would be "Nursery Cryme" (actually I
think it was published first), where they explore such themes as
a vengeful ghost with a taste for incestuous rape ("The Musical Box")
and mutated plants seeking to take over the world ("The Return Of The
Giant Hogweed").
These are very unconventional-sounding albums, and even the old
Marillion may not fully prepare you for what were, in their time, quite
daring and unusual experiments in music (the title "progressive" was
well-deserved in that day). If you like these, you'll probably be
ready to go on to my favorite of the Gabriel/Genesis albums, "Trespass".
No mere words will suffice to describe it. Listen and enjoy.
Jim Kasprzak
>they were similar (plus that I like newer Genesis, too). Anyway, I don't
>agree that Marillion sounds like Genesis (except in that part of "Grendel"),
>but they're still great. One thing, though... I like the albums right
>after Peter Gabriel left somewhat more than the albums with Gabriel. "Trick
>Of The Tale" and "Wind And Wuthering" are just better musically (if not
>lyrically). Gabriel seemed to spend too much time being funny and quirky,
>rather than just playing the music. Not that I hate the earlier albums; I
>just prefer the middle era. I also think Gabriel is much better without
>Genesis (pretty strange...)
>
>Anyone agree?
especially the later ones towards 1975 when "The Lamb" came out, is that
Gabriel intended them to be primarily a live performance band rather
than producers of nice-sounding studio tracks. If you've seen pictures
(or were lucky enough to have seen in person) of the old shows where
Gabriel would act out the parts in "Supper's Ready" or "The Musical
Box", you'd get some idea of what Fish was inspired by. I think that
Rael and the Jester would find quite a bit to talk about if they ever
sat down together somewhere in that fictional world behind the album
covers.
Fish, however, seems a lot more socially and politically conscious
than Gabriel was being in those early days. Not that Gabriel doesn't
have a good amount of political awareness - he wrote "Biko" ten years
before it became fashionable to protest apartheid - but most of it
found its way into his songs in a very abstract, surreal way rather
than Fish's direct confrontation.
Anyhow, to get back to Genesis: after Gabriel left the group, it
freed up two sets of creative talent which had each been somewhat
stifled by the presence of the other. Gabriel was free to explore
his own brand of weirdness, and the rest of the members of Genesis
settled down to make nice-sounding studio tracks which still
translated well to the live stage. "Seconds Out" is probably the
best example of this: Phil Collins shows that he can do "Firth
Of Fifth" just as well as "Squonk", and gives a memorable live
performance of "Supper's Ready".
Anyways, to sum up, I agree that both Genesis and Gabriel improved
after the split, but in different ways. Of course lately Genesis has
degenerated into a pop trio, though they've still managed to come
out with the occasional gem like "Home By The Sea". When Peter Gabriel
inflicted the travesty known as "So" on us, I was afraid that he'd
gone and caved in to commercialism as well, but with the release of
"Passion", he's redeemed himself in my eyes.
Tanguy Kervahut
>influence on Marillion and otherwise appears to be worth listening to,
>I've decided to try them out. However, since they've made quite a lot
>of albums the question is - where should I start? (I'm sure you've all
>got *lots* of ideas ;-)
Well, in my opinion, _Selling England by the pound_ is the best start
for old Genesis with Gabriel. It is my favorite album from them, along
with _Trespass_. After that _The Lamb..._ is really good. And after that,
if you still like it, buy the other albums.
Here is the complete official Genesis w/Gabriel discography:
1969-"And the word was... Genesis", London records, contains their 2 first
singles plus their first album. Also available as "When the sour turns
to sweet", I don't know the label. (on London: 820 496-2)
1970-"Trespass", Virgin, CASC 1020.
1971-"Nursery Cryme", Atlantic, CD 80030.
1972-"Foxtrot", Atlantic, CD 81848.
1973-"Live", Atlantic, CD 81855.
1973-"Selling England by the pound", Atlantic, CD 19277.
1974-"The lamb lies down on Broadway", Atlantic, CD 401.
There are also at least 3 bootlegs of live Genesis, one at Wembley from
1974, a double CD live recorded in Montreal, and another recorded in England,
I don't have them because they are costy and I don't know if they are god.
Enjoy your listening!
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Tanguy Kervahut | "She crucified my heart in the depths of a |
| (kerv...@iro.umontreal.ca) | satin grave, as I lay in sweating monologue |
| | I sensed the lovelight fade" -Fish |
Brent Byer
>In article <4k8aL...@darkside.com> twe...@darkside.com (The 12th Cat) writes:
>>rather than just playing the music. ...
>
> ... one thing to keep in mind about Genesis in the Gabriel days, is that
>Gabriel intended them to be primarily a live performance band rather
>than producers of nice-sounding studio tracks. If you've seen pictures
>(or were lucky enough to have seen in person) of the old shows where
>Gabriel would act out the parts in "Supper's Ready" or "The Musical
Good point. (I am of the camp who believes that there was *no* Genesis
after the early years.) I saw a couple of shows in England, 1972;
one at an outdoor festival (Windsor) and one in the cafeteria/gym of
Kingston Poly (audience ~200).
Both were very good, but *the best* concert I've attended (ever) was
Genesis' summer '73 US promo tour (tix $1) at Tufts Univ. Cohen Auditorium.
This was ideal for a Genesis show: a performing theater with excellent
lighting/sound. Another 'feature' was that few in the (half-capacity)
audience had ever heard of the group (no US air play) and they were stunned.
(Were you there? or other shows that tour?)
Gabriel didn't really "act" out the parts; more, his costumes, presence
and delivery of lead vocals in the 'idiom' of formal theatre, were
unique for rock and very effective.
Are any videos available of (early!) Genesis? Any recommendations? tnx
Brent Byer
David E A Wilson
>1969-"And the word was... Genesis", London records, contains their 2 first
> singles plus their first album. Also available as "When the sour turns
> to sweet", I don't know the label. (on London: 820 496-2)
Also available as "Rock Roots: Genesis" (1976, Decca ROOTS 1) containing both
sides of the first 2 singles and "From Genesis to Revelation" the first album.
I have seen this album with 2 covers - the copy I have is pink with an old
blue Decca Stereogram on the cover. The other cover was white with a green
tree on the front (this is from memory). Can anyone confirm this or describe
the cover of "And the word was... Genesis" or "From Genesis to Revelation"?
"Where The Sour Turns To Sweet" is the first track of FGTR.
David Wilson Dept Comp Sci, Uni of Wollongong (da...@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au)
John Nash
I found it amusing that the "Personics" system has listed a few "Invisible
Touch" tracks and then almost all (if not all) of their first album. I hope
people listen to the tracks before taping....:-) The first album is really
only of historical importance, IMHO. I'm told it can be improved by turning
down the channel with the overdubbed strings, though. The rest of the old
albums are worth checking out, however, and I think the previous posters'
suggestions about the order to get them are just fine. BTW, I have one
of the old boots (I think it's ca. '72), and the sound quality is marginal
at best. "Swelled and Spent -- The Lamb Live" is pretty good, though, and
pretty funny to listen to (esp. pg's stories).
"The valiant Spaceman Spiff is led by -->jn
his captors to a secret dungeon to be John Nash '91
debriefed. Little do they realize that na...@husc8.harvard.edu
our hero doesn't WEAR briefs!" (to his friends)
John Nash
>
>Are any videos available of (early!) Genesis? Any recommendations? tnx
>
>Brent Byer
I don't know about videos, but the best picture book I've ever seen is
"I Know What I Like." Of course, I'm sure you already have that. Still,
a great book.....
Paul J Zawada
The original title for the first album was "From Genesis to Revelation."
It is interesting to note that the name Genesis did not appear on the
cover. It seems that there was a minor American band using the name at the
time, and they couldn't use the name. The cover to this album was black
with nothing but printing on it. The only things printed on the cover
were the name of the album, the Decca company name (and pertinent info),
and a short passage of text. I don't remember what the passage said, but
I can look it up at home...
Here's part of a discography that was maintained by Joseph Hall a couple
of years ago.. (Are you still out there Joseph?) It is by far the most
complete discography I've seen. I believe he also had all of the catalog
numbers for everything listed. The following includes everything up to
Seconds Out.
TITLE DATE NOTES
----- ---- -----
>From Genesis to Revelation 1969 "In the Beginning" in US and Japan
Trespass 1970
Nursery Cryme 1971
Foxtrot 1972
Presenting Genesis 1973 Canadian compilation album
Live 1973
Selling England by the Pound 1973
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 1974
Genesis Collection Volume One 1975 UK set w/ Trespass, Nursery Cryme
Genesis Collection Volume Two 1975 UK set w/ Foxtrot, Selling England ...
Rock Theatre 1975 German, Italian compilation
A Trick of the Tail 1976
Rock Roots 1976 All of first album + mono singles;
there are a zillion versions of this
w/ different names
The Best...Genesis 1976 Nursery Cryme/Foxtrot reissue; also
similar 1978 Charisma reissue
Wind and Wuthering 1977
Genesis in Concert 1977 Brazilian compilation, NOT live
Seconds Out 1978 Live double
pjz...
Paul J Zawada | zaw...@ee.ecn.purdue.edu
Titan P3 Workstation Support | ...!pur-ee!zawada
Purdue University |
Engineering Computer Network | "A Flower?"
--
Paul J Zawada | zaw...@ee.ecn.purdue.edu
Titan P3 Workstation Support | ...!pur-ee!zawada
Purdue University |
Engineering Computer Network |
Richard Flamsholt S0rensen
In article <111...@linus.mitre.org> bcb...@mbunix.mitre.org (Borgeson) writes:
>>ric...@iesd.auc.dk (Richard Flamsholt S0rensen) writes:
>>One thing, though... I like the albums right
>>after Peter Gabriel left somewhat more than the albums with Gabriel. "Trick
>>Of The Tale" and "Wind And Wuthering" are just better musically (if not
>>lyrically).
(He writes, knowing that probably nobody cares ;-)
Just for the record - Borgeson got the references wrong and
througout his article it appeared like *I* was being quoted. The
correct reference was at the top of the article and is
twe...@darkside.com (The 12th Cat).
--
/Richard Flamsholt
ric...@iesd.auc.dk
Geoff Clare
> The only similarities I've noticed are that they are both long (though
>Supper's Ready beats Grendel by a good six or seven minutes) and they both
>contain a section in 9/8 time.
Are you sure about that? I don't recall there being any 9/8 in "Grendel".
The section in "Grendel" with an aggressive alternating bass line, which is
in a similar style to the "Apocalypse in 9/8" section of "Supper's Ready",
is in fact in common time (4/4).
The two bass lines look like this (from memory - hope I got it right!):
Supper's Ready: | o o o |
| o o o o o o |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Grendel: | o | o o o |
| o o o | o |
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
When I first heard "Grendel" the similarity of this section to "Apocalypse
in 9/8" was immediately obvious. But in no way did I think "Supper's Ready
rip-off". It's an excellent piece in it's own right.
--
Geoff Clare, UniSoft Limited, Saunderson House, Hayne Street, London EC1A 9HH
g...@root.co.uk (Dumb mailers: ...!uunet!root.co.uk!gwc) Tel: +44-71-315-6600
A...@psuvm.psu.edu
which was a musical version of "War of the Worlds"? Can anyone help? Thanks
Scott Amspoker
>[the 9/4 bass line from Supper's Ready...]
>
>Supper's Ready: | o o o |
> | o o o o o o |
>
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Interesting, I've always heard it in a different "phase" (where
your '6' becomes my '1').
| o o o |
| o o o o o o |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
--
Scott Amspoker
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM
(505) 345-5232
unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott
Jim Kasprzak
>In article <`HH$BD|@rpi.edu>, jim...@itsgw.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) writes:
>> [...much stuff deleted...] When Peter Gabriel
>> inflicted the travesty known as "So" on us, I was afraid that he'd
>> gone and caved in to commercialism as well, but with the release of
>> "Passion", he's redeemed himself in my eyes.
>> --
>> Jim Kasprzak kasp...@mts.rpi.edu (internet)
>> RPI, Troy, NY user...@rpitsmts.bitnet
>> "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission." -Rush
>
>considered it to be one of the best albums of that year, if not of the decade.
>I certainly believe it to be a great album myself. I also say this with
>agreement of your apparently high regard for "Passion".
>
Hm, I purposely stuck that imflammatory comment there to see if it'd grab
anyone's attention, looks like it did. (-: Basically, there was a distinct
sond and feel to Gabriel's early albums which really appealed to me. The
heavy percussion tracks and hard-hitting vocals of things like "Moribund
The Burgermeister", "Intruder", and "I Have The Touch". Or the slow,
emotionally charged pieces like "Here Comes The Flood", "Family Snapshot",
and "Wallflower".
"So" tried to approximate this. In places it came close, like "Red Rain",
which is about the only track from that album I can stand to listen to.
But most of the music on there doesn't _do_ anything for me. "Sledgehammer"
and "Big Time" sound too much like disco sludge. "Mercy Street", with its
subject matter, could have been another powerful song like "Family Snapshot",
but with the music that was put to it, it just drags. I had high hopes for
the Kate Bush collaboration on "Don't Give Up", but he ruined this too.
It's just completely tedious. Two minutes into the song I find myself
wishing they'd finish it already.
It's not easy to put into words just why I dislike the songs on "So", but
if you can understand the difference between "Perspective" and "Sledgehammer"
or between "Family Snapshot" and "Mercy Street" then you'll have a good
idea of why I feel the way I do.
presently...
> There are also at least 3 bootlegs of live Genesis, one at Wembley from
> I don't have them because they are costy and I don't know if they are god.
I have the Wembley one. Got it for $25. The cd was made from an album
but it still has great sound. Note that the track listing is incorrectly
printed on the cd. But it's a worthwhile investment if you can find it.
Now, if I can get my hands on those other two cds you mentioned I'd be
glad to give you a review of them!
-- --
rj pietkivitch att!ihlpa!rjp1
Jeffrey C. Burka
> A good companion album to this would be "Nursery Cryme" (actually I
>think it was published first),
Yes, _nursery cryme_ dates to '70, a year before _foxtrot_. It was the
first album to feature Phil and Steve.
>If you like these, you'll probably be
>ready to go on to my favorite of the Gabriel/Genesis albums, "Trespass".
>No mere words will suffice to describe it. Listen and enjoy.
When I bought _trespass_, the only Genesis albums I had were Duke, Genesis,
and Invisible Touch, as well as the three solo Phil albums. As one might
imagine, it was quite a shock to my delicate pop-sensibilities.
Largely thanks to _trespass_, I moved toward the art/progressive area.
It's not my favorite Genesis song, but "White Mountain" is the only song
of theirs that gives me chills when I hear it.
> Jim Kasprzak kasp...@mts.rpi.edu (internet)
> RPI, Troy, NY user...@rpitsmts.bitnet
> "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission." -Rush
"Dawn saw the white mountain tinted with red..."
Lord Vader
> I'm looking for the name of an album that was made a few years back
> which was a musical version of "War of the Worlds"? Can anyone help? Thanks
You are looking for "Jeff Wayne's Mysical Version of 'The War of The Worlds'".
I have the album, the 'hilights' album and the cd...
all are great.
--
George Stamatopoulos #### ###
La Trobe University - #### ###
Lincoln School of Health Sciences #### #####
Computing Unit #### ##### incoln
Melbourne ####
Victoria ##########
Australia ########## a Trobe
Borgeson
>
>
> (He writes, knowing that probably nobody cares ;-)
> Just for the record - Borgeson got the references wrong and
>througout his article it appeared like *I* was being quoted. The
>correct reference was at the top of the article and is
>twe...@darkside.com (The 12th Cat).
My apologies.
brett
David Schuetz
>Interesting, I've always heard it in a different "phase" (where
>your '6' becomes my '1').
>
> | o o o |
> | o o o o o o |
>
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
I hear it in the first "phase" first, then (I think, after the vocals
start) I hear it in the second "phase" you mention there.
Charly Rhoades
> In article <23...@root44.co.uk> g...@root.co.uk (Geoff Clare) writes:
> >[the 9/4 bass line from Supper's Ready...]
> >
> >Supper's Ready: | o o o |
> > | o o o o o o |
> > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
>
> Interesting, I've always heard it in a different "phase" (where
> your '6' becomes my '1').
>
> | o o o |
> | o o o o o o |
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
If you are interested in another opinion, I have always "heard" the rhythm
line as Geoff does, i.e., with a 3-2-1 descent. I think I have based this
on my feel for where the measure starts....I'll listen closely, but I think
it does start with the three-figure, not the two.
it may be a little confusing, since I seem to remember that there are a
few places where a chorus starts or ends in the middle of this
measure. This could make it seem that the line starts in the middle
of the measure--and thus in a different phase.
Anyone actually have the sheet music?
--
Charly Rhoades
Altos Computer Systems - San Jose, CA
{amdahl|pyramid}!altos!crhoades `puters packed with pride!
cha...@altos86.Altos.COM
Robyn Carrillo
>I'm looking for the name of an album that was made a few years back
>which was a musical version of "War of the Worlds"? Can anyone help? Thanks
It was Jeff Wayne that did it. I would assume it's called Jeff Wayne's
Musical Version of "War of the Worlds" or something like that. I have it,
and it's pretty good. Justin Hayward (of the Moody Blues) does a song
on it that is quite good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robyn Carrillo **** mcar...@hmcvax.claremont.edu
aka The Quotemaster **** carr...@jarthur.claremont.edu
"Comments are usually accepted, but not necessarily welcome."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
joyce.sapjeta
> which was a musical version of "War of the Worlds"? Can anyone help? Thanks
It was called (surprise!) "War of the Worlds" by Jeff Wayne and featured
people such as David Essex and Justin Hayward .
Joyce
Scott Amspoker
>In article <8...@bbxsda.UUCP>, sc...@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes:
>> In article <23...@root44.co.uk> g...@root.co.uk (Geoff Clare) writes:
>
>> >[the 9/4 bass line from Supper's Ready...]
>> >
>> >Supper's Ready: | o o o |
>> > | o o o o o o |
>> > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
>>
>> Interesting, I've always heard it in a different "phase" (where
>> your '6' becomes my '1').
>>
>> | o o o |
>> | o o o o o o |
>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
>
>If you are interested in another opinion, I have always "heard" the rhythm
>line as Geoff does, i.e., with a 3-2-1 descent. I think I have based this
>on my feel for where the measure starts....I'll listen closely, but I think
>it does start with the three-figure, not the two.
>
>it may be a little confusing, since I seem to remember that there are a
>few places where a chorus starts or ends in the middle of this
>measure. This could make it seem that the line starts in the middle
>of the measure--and thus in a different phase.
That's my point. I originally heard it the way Geoff notates it
because there is something psychological about it. But then I
started noticing that chord changes and section changes were conforming
to the structure I proposed. (*sigh*) now I'll have to go home and
listen to it again.
William Spencer
> In article <23...@root44.co.uk> g...@root.co.uk (Geoff Clare) writes:
>>[the 9/4 bass line from Supper's Ready...]
>>Supper's Ready: | o o o |
>> | o o o o o o |
>>
>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
> Interesting, I've always heard it in a different "phase" (where
> your '6' becomes my '1').
>
> | o o o |
> | o o o o o o |
>
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Not only are you both wrong, you're missing the best part! Try
| o o o |
| o o o o o o |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
YES! There's a REST on the down beat!
When I first saw the sheet music, I said "wha-a?t?". Listen though!
bill S.
William Spencer
in article <33...@husc6.harvard.edu>, na...@husc8.HARVARD.EDU (John Nash) says:
> The first album is really
> only of historical importance, IMHO.
Beware because this has been rereleased in so many different forms. Since
the first album is a different company they've tried to cash in on their
only Genesis product (syrup).
> BTW, I have one
> of the old boots (I think it's ca. '72), and the sound quality is marginal
> at best.
I have "La Ange Gabriel" which is pretty marginal also. But the performance
is amazing! Captures what early Genesis is about.
> "Swelled and Spent -- The Lamb Live" is pretty good, though, and
> pretty funny to listen to (esp. pg's stories).
I want to hear it.
----
CD's: Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme are good to get on CD. The sound quality
is sort of dry and dark so there's nothing to distract you from surface
noise with vinyl. Later records are better on vinyl although side 2
of Selling England is the absurd 28:30 long. Some of the best grooves are
about 3/8" from the label.
Re-issues: If you see them Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme has been re-issued
as a LP collection twice: The Best ... Genesis on Buddha Records (bad pressings,
cool cover with press clippings and pictures) and _Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme_
(good pressings, nice cover).
Phases/Periods: F and NC are, to me the classic period. Sound quality
reinforces the impression that they were recorded 200 years ago instead of 20.
The earlier Trespass is sort
of early, but has its magic also. Later, Selling England marks a jump forward
in sound quality. The Lamb is a great studio album and the debut of serious
synths. It's sort of simpler though. Post Gabriel, Trick of the Tail is
great album also. Side two of Wind and Wuthering has some mellotron parts
that will sweep you away. These two albums are particularly amazing in the
instrumental department. After these there's an obstacle... AIRPLAY. You simply
have to skip all the songs that got airplay and Genesis continues to be great.
=>> Genesis is an amazing band that comes up with a new style every album!
bill S.
Hi Ho Silver
$ [...] Can anyone [...] describe the cover of "And the word was ... Genesis"
The background is a fairly dark blue pattern of some sort (sorry, it's
been a while since I saw it) with a picture of the band somewhere (front?
back? I dunno).
WARNING: The following is an OPINION! :-)
Don't bother with this album. It's not that good, either in terms of
sound quality or musical value. IMHO, of course.
--
/Nikebo \ Nikebo says "Nikebo knows how to post. Just do it."\silver@xrtll/
/---------\_____________________________________________________\----------/
/yunexus!xrtll!silver (L, not 1)\ Hi Ho Silver \ just silver for short /
/Silver: Ever Searching for SNTF \ Life sucks. \ someone buy me a BEER! /
Dave Steiner
- Live in Montreal. Double CD. Montreal, Canada, Apr 21, 1974.
Last three tracks are live 1972 BBC radio recordings.
- Follow You, Follow Me. Double CD. Chicago's Uptown Theatre in 1978.
- Twilight Alehouse. Berkeley, CA, Jan 22nd, 1975 and BBC session, Sep 1972.
- The Waiting Room. Wembley, Apr 15th, 1975.
- Live at Wembley Arena --- June 23, 1974.
- Watchers of the Skies. Rainbow Theater, London, 1972.
Someday I'll try to get some reviews out of these but I definitely
like _Twilight Alehouse_ and _Live at Wembley Arena_ (I haven't heard
_FY,FM_ or _WotS_ yet).
ds
--
arpa: Ste...@TOPAZ.RUTGERS.EDU
uucp: ...{ames, cbosgd, harvard, moss}!rutgers!topaz.rutgers.edu!steiner
Marty Saletta
>In article <5...@wjh12.harvard.edu> b...@wjh12.UUCP (Brent Byer) writes:
>>
>>Are any videos available of (early!) Genesis? Any recommendations? tnx
>>
>
>"I Know What I Like." Of course, I'm sure you already have that. Still,
>a great book.....
>
I'll second that about the book; I was lucky enough to get the new edition
in Toronto last year (the reprint.) I've yet to see it in the US though.
About older Genesis videos: the "oldest" footage I've seen of Genesis is
the 1977 concert movie I've got on tape that has Hackett and Bruford.
Actually, the oldest I've seen was on MTV a few years ago on a Genesis
special. They show Gabriel (from ~1973 I'd guess) saying "A Flower?!?",
so footage exists somewhere. All MTV played was that little 4 second bit.
The book should be enough to keep any Genesis fan busy for a while though.
Maybe in 30 years when we don't care they'll be released, along with
Pink Floyd's The Wall - Live from 1980 that's sitting in a can now too.
Marty
--
Marty Saletta The above has been in a mayonnaise jar on
Fredonia State University Funk and Wagnalls' porch since noon today...
fredonia!sale...@cs.buffalo.edu
...{rutgers,ucbvax}!sunybcs!fredonia!sale5312 Hi Lorie!
Brent Byer
>There are a number of Genesis bootleg CDs out now:
>- Watchers of the Skies. Rainbow Theater, London, 1972.
I am doubtful. Something tells me that either the location or date is bogus.
Genesis had not really achieved enough of a following in 1972 to
play *the* Rainbow. (I'd prefer to be wrong; I surely liked them enough.)
brent byer
Marty Saletta
>Dave Steiner writes:
>>There are a number of Genesis bootleg CDs out now:
>> ...
>>- Watchers of the Skies. Rainbow Theater, London, 1972.
>
>I am doubtful. Something tells me that either the location or date is bogus.
>Genesis had not really achieved enough of a following in 1972 to
>play *the* Rainbow. (I'd prefer to be wrong; I surely liked them enough.)
In the book "Genesis - I Know What I Like" by Aramando Gallo, there is a
a picture of Tony Banks on page 51 with the caption: "Tony in Finsbury Park,
London, in the afternoon before their first concert at the Rainbow,
February 1973." There's also a little bit on that concert on page 53,
giving the date as the 9th. It was during their "Foxtrot" tour of 1972/3,
so they're pretty close. :^)
I hope this helps to clear it up! I know I'd like to hear that boot.
presently...
>> There are a number of Genesis bootleg CDs out now:
>> ...
>> - Watchers of the Skies. Rainbow Theater, London, 1972.
Brent Byer writes:
> I am doubtful. Something tells me that either the location or date is bogus.
> Genesis had not really achieved enough of a following in 1972 to
> play *the* Rainbow. (I'd prefer to be wrong; I surely liked them enough.)
I don't know if Genesis played at the Rainbow Theater in 1972...
Maybe the date is in fact, wrong?
I do have a double bootleg album recorded in October 1973 at the
Rainbow Theater. But I don't know if it's the same recording as
the cd.
Dave Steiner
Well, I can't say for sure since I haven't seen this disc yet. It was
mentioned in the latest ICE in the list of new stuff coming from Great
Dane Records. Maybe we will find out more when it becomes available
(supposedly this month some time).
John.MacIlwaine
>
> I'll second that about the book; I was lucky enough to get the new edition
>in Toronto last year (the reprint.) I've yet to see it in the US though.
>
>
> About older Genesis videos: the "oldest" footage I've seen of Genesis is
>the 1977 concert movie I've got on tape that has Hackett and Bruford.
>Actually, the oldest I've seen was on MTV a few years ago on a Genesis
>special. They show Gabriel (from ~1973 I'd guess) saying "A Flower?!?",
>so footage exists somewhere. All MTV played was that little 4 second bit.
>The book should be enough to keep any Genesis fan busy for a while though.
>
> Maybe in 30 years when we don't care they'll be released, along with
>Pink Floyd's The Wall - Live from 1980 that's sitting in a can now too.
>
>
> Marty
I own both of the above concert videos on VHS format. The "older" is a
professionally shot concert entitled "Genesis: In Concert" shot at the
Oxford Theatre in London in 1973. Songs are "Watcher of the Skies",
"Selling England by the Pound", "Musical Box" (complete with intro),
"I Know What I Like", and "Supper's Ready" (in its entirey with intro).
This by far captures Genesis in their RAREST form, with complete
Gabriel Theatrics...
The second video mentioned above is from the "Trick of the Tail" concert
in 1977. Tracks include "I Know What I Like", "Entangled", "Carpet Crawl",
"Cinema Show Pt. II", and "Supper's Ready Pt. II" <-- actually Pt. II refers
to Apocalypse in 9/8. I taped this one from the T.V. program called
"Night Flight" which (I think) has been pulled. OOPs, oh yeah, I forgot
"Los Endos", which is the last song on the video :).
The older (1973) concert is presently owned by MTV who only likes to
tease people with various tidbits. Copies can still be found circulating
amongst record shows etc...
____________________________________________________________________________
| ___ _ |
| /_ /_ |\ | /_ /_ | /_ \\ | |_| /_ | /_\ |\/| |_\ // |
| \/ \ | \| \ / | / | | | \ |__ / \ | | |_/ |
| Genesis/Gabriel Mailing List -> jmac...@emdeng.dayton.ncr.com |
| " Now can't you see....Where the Raven flies, there's jeopardy .... " |
|___________________________________________________________________________|
Brian Yamauchi
>>ric...@iesd.auc.dk (Richard Flamsholt S0rensen) writes:
>>
>>after Peter Gabriel left somewhat more than the albums with Gabriel. "Trick
>>Of The Tale" and "Wind And Wuthering" are just better musically (if not
>>lyrically).
>
I'd agree that the Middle Period is best, but...
>To me, that includes everything made from Selling England by the Pound to
>Seconds Out
I'm talking about the Other Middle Period :-). I define this as from
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway through Three Sides Live. In my
opinion, this music is some of the best symphonic synth-oriented rock
ever produced.
I consider Duke to be Genesis' best album (closely followed by Trick
of the Tail and And Then There Were Three...)
While the older music was more experimental and the recent music has
been more commercial, it was during the middle period that Genesis
was oriented toward making music that seemed to have a certain sense
of scale and atmosphere, which combined studio craftsmanship with
originality and vision.
______________________________________________________________________________
Brian Yamauchi Hughes Research Laboratories
yama...@aic.hrl.hac.com Artificial Intelligence Center
______________________________________________________________________________
Mitch Gorman
>
>I'm talking about the Other Middle Period :-). I define this as from
>The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway through Three Sides Live. In my
>opinion, this music is some of the best symphonic synth-oriented rock
>ever produced.
I agree, both with the sentiment, and the definition. What I can't
understand is why they _did_ a "Three Sides Live". It seems to me that the
studio songs on that album deserved to be on a release that would get the
marketing push for new material that never seems to be there for live record-
ings. Those songs are just as good as (and for all I know, outtakes from the
sessions for) Wind And Wuthering (my personal fave).
I feel as though those very good songs sorta got lost in the shuffle,
and never really received the kind of attention they deserved. I know I would
be thrilled to hear any of them (well, okay, maybe not Paperlate...:^) at a
concert. If only for shock value... :^):^):^):^)
_______________________________________________________________________________
Mitch Gorman Internet: si...@dhw68k.cts.com
uucp: ...{spsd,zardoz,felix}!dhw68k!silk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never seen the same face twice, never walked the same way;
And the little love that I have known I keep to myself."
- Genesis, "Say It's Alright, Joe", _And Then There Were Three_
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jim Debonis (SVER)
> I agree, both with the sentiment, and the definition. What I can't
>understand is why they _did_ a "Three Sides Live". It seems to me that the
>studio songs on that album deserved to be on a release that would get the
>marketing push for new material that never seems to be there for live record-
>ings. Those songs are just as good as (and for all I know, outtakes from the
>sessions for) Wind And Wuthering (my personal fave).
>
are from the Duke and Abacab sessions (possibly And Then There Were Three).
Three of these songs (Paperlate, Me and Virgil, and You Might Recall) were
released in the U.K. on a picture disc E.P. called 3x3 (Three by three)
Because of this, the U.K. version of Three Sides, has a 4th live side. The 4th
live side consisted of One for the Vine, It, and a song I can't think of at the
moment (aagghhh!).
Does anyone know were I can get 3x3 and the U.K. version of three sides on cd.
(I have them on vinyl). Also, can someone send me the lyrics to the 4th side
(especially You Might Recall). Thank you,
Jim
John Nash
>Because of this, the U.K. version of Three Sides, has a 4th live side. The 4th
>live side consisted of One for the Vine, It, and a song I can't think of at the
>moment (aagghhh!).
OK, just for the record (any anyone now wondering), "The Fountain of
Salmacis" is the other song. It is interesting to note that B. Bruford
is the drummer on It/Watcher of the Skies, the last track on the fourth
side. Neat album side.../
"The valiant Spaceman Spiff is led by -->jn
his captors to a secret dungeon to be John Nash '91
debriefed. Little do they realize that na...@husc8.harvard.edu
our hero doesn't WEAR briefs!" (to his friends)
Andrew W Priestly IE88
Three Sides Live as mentioned exists on two versions. The UK version (with 4th
live side) is not available on CD as far as I'm aware. The other track on the
fourth side is "Fountain of Salmacis", and It is actually a medley of It and
Watcher of the Skies.
The other two tracks on the general version are Open Door and aarg it's gone...
Sorry, but anyway they were the b-sides of two of the Duke singles (Duchess and
Misunderstanding, I think - the US singles off Duke had different B-sides
generally).
Thus: Open Door and whatever_its_called: Duke sessions Polar Studios
3x3 EP: Abacab sessions The Farm (I think)
The songs were not released on an album because they were previously available.
When, and if, the Best of Genesis album ever appears (when Virgin and Genesis can
actually agree if they're going to do one), it's unlikely that these, and other
difficult to get material will be included... eg Twilight Alehouse, Spot the
Pigeon (Ok, easily available now, but it wasn't when I got it), Happy the Man,
etc.
There are still a phenomenal number of b-sides still outstanding - mostly from the
Abacab singles, but also from Inv. Touch singles, which are not on LP. Ok these are
mostly instrumentals, but some are pretty good.
On this subject, does anyone know why `Feeding the Fire', the b-side of Land of
Confusion, did not end up on the album. For me, it's a stand out track: far better
than, say The Brazillian, or (dare I say it) Tonight Tonight Tonight
Andrew W Priestly
===============================================================================
==== "Right, Spocko?" ==== "I am a Time Lord, ====
==== "Unquestionably, Captain." ==== I walk in Eternity." ====
==== - A Piece of the Action ==== - The Pyramids of Mars ====
===============================================================================
John.MacIlwaine
>are from the Duke and Abacab sessions (possibly And Then There Were Three).
>Three of these songs (Paperlate, Me and Virgil, and You Might Recall) were
>released in the U.K. on a picture disc E.P. called 3x3 (Three by three)
>Because of this, the U.K. version of Three Sides, has a 4th live side. The 4th
>live side consisted of One for the Vine, It, and a song I can't think of at
>the moment (aagghhh!).
The song you are thinking of above is 'Watcher of the Skies'.
>Does anyone know were I can get 3x3 and the U.K. version of three sides on cd.
>(I have them on vinyl). Also, can someone send me the lyrics to the 4th side
>(especially You Might Recall). Thank you,
> Jim
The U.K. version of Three Sides Live (with the fourth side live) was never
released on C.D. (as of 1988). The version in the U.K. on CD is like the
American release. Interestingly, though, the booklet in my American
release of Three Sides Live on CD includes the lyrics to 'Watcher of the
Skies' and another song that isn`t even on the disc. (... Strange ...)
____________________________________________________________________________
| ___ _ |
| /_ /_ |\ | /_ /_ | /_ \\ | |_| /_ | /_\ |\/| |_\ // |
| \/ \ | \| \ / | / | | | \ |__ / \ | | |_/ |
| Genesis/Gabriel Mailing List -> jmac...@emdeng.dayton.ncr.com |
| " The dust settles on my skin..... making a crust I cannot move in..." |
|___________________________________________________________________________|
Hosek, Donald A.
>The U.K. version of Three Sides Live (with the fourth side live) was never
>released on C.D. (as of 1988). The version in the U.K. on CD is like the
>American release. Interestingly, though, the booklet in my American
>release of Three Sides Live on CD includes the lyrics to 'Watcher of the
>Skies' and another song that isn`t even on the disc. (... Strange ...)
I beg to differ on this. I've seen a UK Three Sides Live on disk
that had four live sides.
-dh
---
Don Hosek TeX, LaTeX, and Metafont Consulting and
dho...@ymir.claremont.edu production work. Free Estimates.
dho...@ymir.bitnet
uunet!jarthur!ymir Phone: 714-625-0147
Dave Kehrer
> live side consisted of One for the Vine, It, and a song I can't think of at the
> moment (aagghhh!).
The song is the Intro/Finish to Watcher of the Skies. Also, I don't think
One for the Vine is on the UK version of TSL. I recall it being The Fountain
of Salmacis..
If I remember, they're leftover tracks from the Trick of the Tail tour in '76
(with Bill Bruford drumming)...
> Does anyone know were I can get 3x3 and the U.K. version of three sides on cd.
> (I have them on vinyl). Also, can someone send me the lyrics to the 4th side
> (especially You Might Recall). Thank you,
Sorry, I don't know of 3x3 or the UK TSL on CD (agggh, stop with the acronyms
already!!)
> Jim
David Kehrer rochester!cci632!ccird3!dwk
d...@ccird3.UUCP -OR- uunet!ccicpg!cci632!ccird3!dwk
uunet!rlgvax!cci632!ccird3!dwk
John Nash
>
>There are still a phenomenal number of b-sides still outstanding - mostly from the
>Abacab singles, but also from Inv. Touch singles, which are not on LP. Ok these are
>mostly instrumentals, but some are pretty good.
>
>On this subject, does anyone know why `Feeding the Fire', the b-side of Land of
>Confusion, did not end up on the album. For me, it's a stand out track: far better
>than, say The Brazillian, or (dare I say it) Tonight Tonight Tonight
The reason was simply: space. Right before the release of the album,
the group did an interview (that ended up on a picture disc). They give their
impressions of the album, some of who wrote what, and how they think it will
be received. (BTW, Phil basically says that the title track was designed to
be a hit, with Tony's sequenced middle part [in a different key] added to
make it a bit more interesting.) They fully produced three tracks too many,
and then had to decide what to leave out. From trying the tracks out on their
friends, the biggest complaint they got was that "Do the Neurotic" didn't
fit on the album. ("Oh, you can't leave THAT one off....") They decided to
put the shorter instrumental ("The Brazilian") on the album, and release the
other songs as b-sides and 12-inches. (By the by, if you have "Do the Neurotic"
as the B-side of "In Too Deep," you have an edited version.) I tend to agree
that "Feeding the Fire" is a very strong song. I made up a tape that I call
"Invisible Tracks":
Do The Neurotic
Feeding The Fire
I'd Rather Be You
Invisible Touch (live) <--\
Throwing It All Away (live) <-- from the "Throwing It All Away" 12"
Match Of The Day <--\
Pigeons <-- the contents of "Spot The Pigeon"
Inside And Out <--/
Charm <-- Tony Banks, from "The Fugitive"
The Lamb Lies Down.... <-- pg live on his first tour, from radio
Watcher Of The Skies <-- early genesis concert, from radio
It fits on a 60 min. tape, and is a nice sampling of the "other" Genesis that
most people don't get to hear, sadly. I'd like to hear them do some of these
songs in concert, especially "Inside and Out," one of my favorite Genesis
songs. Well, enough rambling. The reason the tracks don't make it on
albums is space, and the choices that are made are unfortunately swayed
by marketing considerations. Thus, we have "In Too Deep" and not
"Feeding the Fire."
David Schuetz
>The song is the Intro/Finish to Watcher of the Skies. Also, I don't think
>One for the Vine is on the UK version of TSL. I recall it being The Fountain
>of Salmacis..
The fourth side has <jogs memory> "The Fountain of Salmacis," "One For the
Vine," and "It/Watcher of the Skies." The first two were from, I think, 1978
or so, with Chester Thompson (?) on drums.
>If I remember, they're leftover tracks from the Trick of the Tail tour in '76
>(with Bill Bruford drumming)...
Right, that was the last one. And "Watcher of the Skies" was really just the
neat drum/guitar beat at the beginning of the song. Really makes me wish
that they'd played the whole thing, 'cause it sounded like it was going to be
fantastic (I assume they had both Collins and Bruford drumming at that point).
And I have never seen it on CD, at least not as Four Sides Live (it's still
_called_ Three sides, I just call it Four Sides, it's easier).
titus lai
[tons of stuff deleted]
>[...] (By the by, if you have "Do the Neurotic"
>as the B-side of "In Too Deep," you have an edited version.) I tend to agree
This may be true for the UK 7" single, but the 12" single has the full length
version. The US 7" of "Throwing It All Away" also has the edited version.
>[...] I'd like to hear them do some of these
>songs in concert, especially "Inside and Out," one of my favorite Genesis
>songs.
Actually, they did do this song live on the '77 tour, or at least in the
last part of it (after "Spot the Pigeon" was released). Honestly, the live
arrangement doesn't sound very different from the studio version.
--
Titus Lai
Computer Science Department, UCLA It's a cold wind that blows
ti...@cs.ucla.edu against the empire.
{ames,rutgers,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!titus
Dave Steiner
> >Does anyone know were I can get 3x3 and the U.K. version of three
> >sides on cd. (I have them on vinyl). Also, can someone send me
> >the lyrics to the 4th side (especially You Might
> >Recall). Thank you,
>
> The U.K. version of Three Sides Live (with the fourth side live) was never
> released on C.D. (as of 1988). The version in the U.K. on CD is like the
> American release.
The original issue of the UK CD was like the US release in that it had
only 3 sides but the latest reissue of the UK CD has the fourth side
live just like the UK LP. I got my copy from someone going to
England; I don't know where you could order here in the states.
Pablo Iglesias
> > Jim
>
> The U.K. version of Three Sides Live (with the fourth side live) was never
Actually, I believe that a four sides live version is now available on
CD. I thought that I saw it last weekend when I went to the CD store
here in Cambridge. I believe that they were asking #20 for it. Why oh
why can't CD prices come down in this country? :-(
Pablo Iglesias
--
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------+
|Pablo Iglesias |Phone : +44 223 332813 |
|Department of Engineering |Fax : +44 223 332662 |
|Cambridge University |email : p...@eng.cam.ac.uk |
Dave Kehrer
[deleted- David clears-up the TSL UK tracks- thanks]
>
> Right, that was the last one. And "Watcher of the Skies" was really just the
> neat drum/guitar beat at the beginning of the song. Really makes me wish
> that they'd played the whole thing, 'cause it sounded like it was going to be
> fantastic (I assume they had both Collins and Bruford drumming at that point).
>
I can't really say if they both were drumming on that bit, but I can say that
Collins and Chester Thompson did drum the intro/finish to Watcher when I saw
Genesis here in Rochester in '82. They "tailed" Watcher into the end of
"The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" as an encore....
Ah memories- They also did "Supper's Ready" at that show... It was also the
LAST time they were here :-(
BTW- Anyone know what's going on with Steve Hackett these days? I saw him
back in October '81 here. Another great concert, and I still like listening to
his solo stuff...
Thanks...
Andrew W Priestly IE88
>>
>>There are still a phenomenal number of b-sides still outstanding - mostly from the
>>Abacab singles, but also from Inv. Touch singles, which are not on LP. Ok these are
>>mostly instrumentals, but some are pretty good.
>>
>>On this subject, does anyone know why `Feeding the Fire', the b-side of Land of
>>Confusion, did not end up on the album. For me, it's a stand out track: far better
>>than, say The Brazillian, or (dare I say it) Tonight Tonight Tonight
>
>albums is space, and the choices that are made are unfortunately swayed
>by marketing considerations. Thus, we have "In Too Deep" and not
>"Feeding the Fire."
>
>
>"The valiant Spaceman Spiff is led by -->jn
>his captors to a secret dungeon to be John Nash '91
>debriefed. Little do they realize that na...@husc8.harvard.edu
>our hero doesn't WEAR briefs!" (to his friends)
Yes, I agree there is a space constraint. BUT: Invisible Touch is, what, 40-45 mins
long, yeah? Def Leppard's Hysteria LP is 63 mins long (on LP). Feeding the Fire is
(maybe) 5,6 minutes; Do the Neurotic is about 7,8 mins. Adding these tracks would
have made the LP only an hour long. And there's still space for 20 mins of extra
tracks (Perhaps I'd Rather Be You) on the CD or cassette versions.
Phil's latest album (CD version) is just under an hour, the LP is about 53 mins, so
you can't say that Genesis are loathe to put out long albums due to quality. (Anyone
remember the old Charisma Deluxe series - Trick of the Tail & Wind and Wuthering
for example - which were Excellent quality and 50+ mins long...
I hope that Genesis are not falling into the fickle music business trap of releasing
b-sides of singles so as to boost their single sales... Rare b-sides are the only
reason I buy singles these days...
Grouch grouch grouch (I auditioned for a part in Sesame Street, but Oscar got it...)
Andrew W Priestly IE88
>
>> > Jim
>>
>> The U.K. version of Three Sides Live (with the fourth side live) was never
>
>
>Actually, I believe that a four sides live version is now available on
>CD. I thought that I saw it last weekend when I went to the CD store
>here in Cambridge. I believe that they were asking #20 for it. Why oh
>why can't CD prices come down in this country? :-(
>
>Pablo Iglesias
More to the point, have you noticed that since CDs were introduced, LP
prices have rocketted? Methinks a single LP will end up at about a pound
less than a CD, so that record companies will say "Look, CDs aren't much
dearer at all are they?"
Mitch Hendrickson
>In article <9...@emdeng.Dayton.NCR.COM>, jmac...@emdeng.Dayton.NCR.COM (John.MacIlwaine) writes...
>>The U.K. version of Three Sides Live (with the fourth side live) was never
>>released on C.D. (as of 1988). The version in the U.K. on CD is like the
>>American release. Interestingly, though, the booklet in my American
>>release of Three Sides Live on CD includes the lyrics to 'Watcher of the
>>Skies' and another song that isn`t even on the disc. (... Strange ...)
>
>I beg to differ on this. I've seen a UK Three Sides Live on disk
>that had four live sides.
...and I own it! (Thanx to a strategic trip to England by my
ex-roommate Mikey). Hiya Don - what ya up to?
-Mitch
--
Mitch Hendrickson mit...@gold.gvg.tek.com
Grass Valley Group, Inc. (of course I don't speak for them!!)
P.O. Box 1114 (M/S N3-2H)
Grass Valley, CA 95945 .signature under construction...
Andrew W Priestly IE88
>
>back in October '81 here. Another great concert, and I still like listening to
>his solo stuff...
>
>Thanks...
>
>
>David Kehrer rochester!cci632!ccird3!dwk
>d...@ccird3.UUCP -OR- uunet!ccicpg!cci632!ccird3!dwk
> uunet!rlgvax!cci632!ccird3!dwk
Rumours, as they will, abound. What was the last info you got?
His last album release was, to my knowledge, Momentum, after which he toured,
doing an acoustic set with his brother John on flute.
Latest rumour: he's going to attempt to reform GTR.
Other rumours: there was talk at one point of an LP with Brian May, Chris
Thompson, Bonnie Tyler, Morten Harket (may not be spelled right), and a few
other bods. The group was to be called (damn, I've forgotten)... something
beginning with an A anyway. This album hasn't appeared yet. I believe this
came from the Queen Fan Club, and I didn't spot it in the Genesis one. If
this is true, it may be being held up whilst Queen finish mixing their new
album (rumour, rumour), for which Brian's solo LP has been held up (rumour,
rumour).
Anyone with Queen/Brian May info please post...
Must be about time for a new Hackett album soon. He's usually fairly
prolific...