Need information about " The Doors " .
Frolov M.V.
words : " Show me the way to the next whisky bar ".Some songs of "The Doors"
I've heard ~10 years ago, and, of course, recognize this group at once.
Sorry, I don't understand the text of this song completely.
( Refrain begins with " I know that we must die " or " I don't ask you why " )
My dear friends , I'll be thankfull for all of you (for your attention) ,
and especially for those, who send me the text of this/other song ( and also
any information about " The Doors " ) .
Sincerely ,
Maxim Frolov.
John Fereira
>
| I've been heard wonderful song two days ago. It begins with next
|words : " Show me the way to the next whisky bar ".Some songs of "The Doors"
|I've heard ~10 years ago, and, of course, recognize this group at once.
|Sorry, I don't understand the text of this song completely.
Don't worry. You're not alone. The lyrics to "The Doors" have always been
a topic of interpretation. I remember my high school sophmore English class
tried to interpret "Horse Lattitudes". That was in 1970.
>( Refrain begins with " I know that we must die " or " I don't ask you why " )
I thinks "I tell you we must die" and "No, don't ask why".
>My dear friends , I'll be thankfull for all of you (for your attention) ,
>and especially for those, who send me the text of this/other song ( and also
>any information about " The Doors " ) .
Although some question the accuracy of the film, you ought to try and find
"The Doors" video. It's a powerful film that might lead some insight into
"The Doors" and Jim Morrison.
--
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira "Is that all you ever think about?" |
| jo...@auspex.com |
+============================================================================++
Chuck Anderson
> I've been heard wonderful song two days ago. It begins with next
>words : " Show me the way to the next whisky bar ".
What a coincidence. I've liked this song since my high school days when
we drove around drinking beer and singing along. I never bothered to look
into who wrote the darn thing.
Two nights ago I was watching (well, scanned by, actually) "Best of the Met."
There was a woman in an evening gown with an operatic voice singing a
very familiar song. As soon as I began to follow along with the words I
recognized it. "This is way wierd, I thinks to myself. The Met does the
Doors?"
Then I read the liner notes on my "The Doors" CD:
"Their first album includes......., German opera ("Whisky Bar" from Kurt
Weill and Bertolt Brecht's 1929 "Aufsteig Und Fall Der Stadt Mahagonny").
[The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahogany?]
Soooo. Their not "Door's" lyrics at all, but German opera. And when I'm
drunk the words all make sense, except the ones I can't undestand like:
"Oh move a dum da dum dum,
we now must say goodbye."
It's a "drinking song." These folks have many reasons to keep finding the
next whisky bar and drinking the contents therein.
"We've lost our dear old mama" is one of them.
--
*************************************************************************
Chuck Anderson uucp : uunet!nyx!canderso
Boulder, Co. (303) 494-6278 internet: cand...@nyx.cs.du.edu
*************************************************************************
John Becker
)> x0501 writes:
)> I've been heard wonderful song two days ago. It begins with next
)>words : " Show me the way to the next whisky bar ".
)
)Two nights ago I was watching (well, scanned by, actually) "Best of the Met."
)There was a woman in an evening gown with an operatic voice singing a
)very familiar song. As soon as I began to follow along with the words I
)recognized it. "This is way wierd, I thinks to myself. The Met does the
)Doors?"
)
)"Their first album includes......., German opera ("Whisky Bar" from Kurt
)Weill and Bertolt Brecht's 1929 "Aufsteig Und Fall Der Stadt Mahagonny").
)[The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahogany?]
I have a tape of this song performed by Lotte Lenya in the early 1930s.
She was the female vocalist in the original production of this opera.
By the way, Brecht and Weill also are responsible for the song we know as
Mack The Knife, made popular by Bobby Darin in the late '50s. In some of
their early live performances, the Doors used to do Mack The Knife and
Alabama Song as a medley.
)Soooo. Their not "Door's" lyrics at all, but German opera. And when I'm
)drunk the words all make sense, except the ones I can't undestand like:
)
)"Oh move a dum da dum dum,
)we now must say goodbye."
The words are "Oh moon of Alabama, we now must say goodbye". Hence the title
Alabama Song. Now the next question is why were a couple of Germans writing
about Alabama? BTW, one or both of them were Jewish, and consequently their
work was officially scorned in Germany at the time.
The fact that Morrison was familiar with these songs, and liked them enough
to adapt them to the Doors style, is an indication of the side of his
personality that was left out of the Doors movie.
--
|=================================|=================================|
| John Becker, Staff Engineer | "When The Music's Over, |
| Motorola, Inc., Schaumburg, IL | Turn Out The Lights!" |
| bec...@areaplg2.corp.mot.com | James Douglas Morrison |
|=================================|=================================|
John Becker
)
)Although some question the accuracy of the film, you ought to try and find
)"The Doors" video. It's a powerful film that might lead some insight into
)"The Doors" and Jim Morrison.
I'd agree that it's a powerful film, featuring great concert scenes and a
superb performance by Val Kilmer. However, if you are looking for insight
into the Doors and Jim Morrison, this is not the place to get it. While much
of what is shown is undoubtedly true, it gives an unbalanced picture of
what Morrison was like. The creative side of his personality is pretty much
ignored in the movie.
Ray Shea
>| I've been heard wonderful song two days ago. It begins with next
>|words : " Show me the way to the next whisky bar ".Some songs of "The Doors"
>Don't worry. You're not alone. The lyrics to "The Doors" have always been
>a topic of interpretation.
Ditto the lyrics of Kurt Weill.
--
Ray Shea "Them New Agers will buy anything if
UniSQL, Inc. you tell 'em it's from Bali."
unisql!r...@cs.utexas.edu -- Eric the Bondo Fish Man
DoD #0372, '88 Hawk NT650
Tim Szeliga
>
>
>Alabama Song. Now the next question is why were a couple of Germans writing
>about Alabama? BTW, one or both of them were Jewish, and consequently their
>work was officially scorned in Germany at the time.
>
I believe the musical was set in a logging camp in Alabama.
Brecht was a communist, Weill was jewish. Weill split Deutschland,
moved to Broadway and made it big. Brecht wound up in East Germany, I
think, and looked more and more like Gertrude Stein as he got older.
Brecht and Brechtian theater was a major influence on Morrison.
Clayton Glad
>In article <14...@auspex-gw.auspex.com> jo...@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>>In article <0.23675...@kiae.su> x0501 writes:
>>| I've been heard wonderful song two days ago. It begins with next
>>|words : " Show me the way to the next whisky bar ".Some songs of "The Doors"
>>|...
>>Don't worry. You're not alone. The lyrics to "The Doors" have always been
>>a topic of interpretation.
>Ditto the lyrics of Kurt Weill.
Many scholars today believe that most of Weill's lyrics may have been penned
by an unknown Bavarian musician named Bertolt Brecht.
-- Clay
(See, Ray? I told you: you talk to these people long enough ...)
Clayton Glad
>By the way, Brecht and Weill also are responsible for the song we know as
>Mack The Knife, made popular by Bobby Darin in the late '50s.
First popularized by Louis Armstrong, I believe. Darin's version actually
mentions Lenya, of course.
>BTW, one or both of them were Jewish, and consequently their
>work was officially scorned in Germany at the time.
Weill was Jewish, Brecht was not. But being an articulate critic
of fascism didn't get you very far in Germany at that time, either.
sn...@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga) writes:
>Weill split Deutschland, moved to Broadway and made it big.
>Brecht wound up in East Germany, I think, and looked more and
>more like Gertrude Stein as he got older.
Oh, but Brecht came to the U.S., too -- to Hollywood, no less! He
managed to grind out at least one screenplay and was called before
McCarthy's HUAC before leaving.
>Brecht and Brechtian theater was a major influence on Morrison.
I never liked The Door's version of Alabama Song, which I thought was
overblown and completely irrelevant to the song's original context.
Hal Wilner put together a very nice collection of (mostly) rock artists
performing Weill songs. It's called "Lost in the Stars". Keep listening
past Sting's pathetic Mackie Messer. It gets better.
-- Clay
Tim Walters
>Then I read the liner notes on my "The Doors" CD:
>
>"Their first album includes......., German opera ("Whisky Bar" from Kurt
>Weill and Bertolt Brecht's 1929 "Aufsteig Und Fall Der Stadt Mahagonny").
>
>[The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahogany?]
Close. "Mahagonny" doesn't translate to "mahogany", though, or anything
else, for that matter. It's just a name.
>Soooo. Their not "Door's" lyrics at all, but German opera. And when I'm
>drunk the words all make sense, except the ones I can't undestand like:
>
>"Oh move a dum da dum dum,
>we now must say goodbye."
"Oh moon of Alabama, we now must say goodbye." The title is actually
"Alabama Song".
For more great Brecht/Weill songs, check out _The Threepenny Opera_.
--
Tim: wal...@mills.edu
-----------------------
"How much longer do we have to hang about waiting for the Antichrist?"
--Samuel Beckett
Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik
Since everybody's already told you that the Doors didn't write
"Alabama Song" I thought I'd answer the other part of your post. As
for the music, I'd start with the album called _The Doors_, since it
was the first album. After that, you could go in chronological order
or not, as you wanted; just don't get any of those "Doors Greatest
Hits" or "Best of the Doors" albums (after all, what you decide is
their best may not have anything to do with what's in those
collections).
If you want to read about them, I recommend:
_Jim Morrison, Dark Star_ by Dylan Jones
_Break On Through_ by James Riordan and Jerry Prochnicky
_Feast of Friends_ by Frank Lisciandro
_Riders on the Storm_ by John Densmore
_Strange Days: My Life With and Without Jim Morrison_ by Patricia Kennealy
And, of course, _The Lords and The New Creatures_ by James Douglas Morrison.
--
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains." -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----a...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
Torsten B. Hagemann
[stuff deleted relating to "Alabama Song"]
>My dear friends , I'll be thankfull for all of you (for your attention) ,
>and especially for those, who send me the text of this/other song ( and also
>any information about " The Doors " ) .
The lyrics to most of the Doors records should be at Dave Datta's ftp-site, you
can get them there. Buy some books about the Doors if you want to know more, I
found that "No one here gets out alive" by Hopkins and Sugarman is OK, though I
know that some Doors fans for one reason or another are not that content with
it.
> Sincerely ,
> Maxim Frolov.
Good luck.
Torsten
--
The flesh is willing, and the spirit is weak.
Ray Shea
>r...@unisql.UUCP (Ray Shea) writes:
>>
>>Ditto the lyrics of Kurt Weill.
>
>Many scholars today believe that most of Weill's lyrics may have been penned
>by an unknown Bavarian musician named Bertolt Brecht.
ouch. I am suitably humiliated before the net.
Whaddya expect? I've spent the last 3 weeks living alone in an
empty house eating off paper plates listening to the one tape
I have (Superchunk) over and over and over again on my landlady's
$35 boom box; my brain is just completely shot. If you ever need
professional movers, Bekins is *not* the place to call.
>(See, Ray? I told you: you talk to these people long enough ...)
...you start to sound like them. Well, HA!, at least I'm not
listening to that (c)rap music, if you could even call it music!
Benjamin Kline Lowengard
>
>
>Hal Wilner put together a very nice collection of (mostly) rock artists
>performing Weill songs. It's called "Lost in the Stars". Keep listening
>past Sting's pathetic Mackie Messer. It gets better.
>
>-- Clay
recordings (some have been released on CD) to really get a feel
for why some of these pieces were written (esp. 7 deadly sins, and
Die Dreigrossenoper(my sic spelling). T-bone Burnett and Tom Waits
both owe a lot to Kurt and Bert on their past few albums..indeed
Wilner has nodded to "our generation" that we should accept this
music again through the Lost in the Stars album but it is pretty
popish compared to the dark(and wonderful) Disney album or overly
ambitious(non-wilner production) Cole Portery Red Hot and Blue.
Check it out(this music really scares me sometimes)
ben
Clayton Glad
"Lost in the Stars".
b...@media.mit.edu (Benjamin Kline Lowengard) writes:
>Yeah But not much better..it is best to seek out those old Lenya
>recordings (some have been released on CD) to really get a feel
>for why some of these pieces were written
Well, sure. And the two Theresa Stratas albums serve the same purpose
from a somewhat different perspective (as do a number of the cast
albums available), but I was hardly recommending Wilner's tribute as
definitive Weill. I was recommending it as antidote to the only
interpretation that rock fans are likely to know.
>T-bone Burnett and Tom Waits
>both owe a lot to Kurt and Bert on their past few albums..indeed
>Wilner has nodded to "our generation" that we should accept this
>music again through the Lost in the Stars album but it is pretty
>popish compared to the dark(and wonderful) Disney album or overly
>ambitious(non-wilner production) Cole Portery Red Hot and Blue.
Burnett and Waits are hardly the only artists who are indebtted to
Weill. "Lost in the Stars" does a terrific job of illustrating just
why Weill -- someone who was considered to be washed-up after his move
to Broadway -- is important to contemporary popular music.
It's actually my least favorite of Wilner's tribute albums, which is
to say that it's merely good.
-- Clay
Clayton Glad
>Well, HA!, at least I'm not listening to that (c)rap music, if
>you could even call it music!
Amen to that!
-- Clay (gearing up for fall)
David Librik
>>)[The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny]
>>
>>
>>The words are "Oh moon of Alabama, we now must say goodbye". Hence the title
>>Alabama Song. Now the next question is why were a couple of Germans writing
>>about Alabama?
>I believe the musical was set in a logging camp in Alabama.
Actually it was set in a "boom town" in Alaska, but the drunken men
singing the song had just walked over from Alabama. Later in the show,
the residents of the town listen in fear as a hurricane which has just
destroyed Pensacola, Florida heads straight for them.
Brecht and Weill didn't know the first thing about geography.
[There's also an older song they did called, er, Tod in der Welt (I don't
speak German, sorry), in which a man is killed in the vast forests of
Oklahoma or Kansas or somewhere like that.]
In _Mahagonny_, by the way, the Alabama Song has an extra verse, which goes:
"Oh show me the way to the next little dollar..." and you realize that the
song is all about the narrow-minded pleasure-seeking that the small-time
victims of capitalist profiteering have to turn to, in place of the real
community that's lacking in Mahagonny. (Brecht was a Communist in the
Weimar Republic, and he and Weill topped the Nazis' hit list.) By dropping
that last verse, Morrison turns the whole thing into a praise of hedonism.
Interesting.
- David Librik
lib...@cory.Berkeley.edu
dx
> Well, HA!, at least I'm not listening to that (c)rap music, if
> you could even call it music!
> Amen to that!
What the hell are you guys talking about? Rap music isn't music? What is
it then? What do you mean by "music"? I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed
here before.
-dx (gearing up for great elevator parties in the dorms)
dx
> By the way, Brecht and Weill also are responsible for the song we know as
> Mack The Knife, made popular by Bobby Darin in the late '50s.
# First popularized by Louis Armstrong, I believe. Darin's version actually
# mentions Lenya, of course.
> BTW, one or both of them were Jewish, and consequently their
> work was officially scorned in Germany at the time.
Huh? I don't know about Louis Armstrong, but Darin came from an Amish
background, originally, and later in life studied with several Buddhist
teachers.
You are quite right, though, that Darin's records, especially his earlier
rock 'n' roll works, were very hard to find in Germany. Strangely, his
Copa-era discs were all the rage in East Berlin throughout the 60's and
70's.
Larry Spence
>Ray Shea...
>
>> Well, HA!, at least I'm not listening to that (c)rap music, if
>> you could even call it music!
>
>Clayton Glad...
>
>> Amen to that!
>
>What the hell are you guys talking about? Rap music isn't music?
Damn right, you don't even have to play an instrument to "make" rap.
>What is it then?
Look at the subject line...
>What do you mean by "music"?
1. It's got guitars.
2. It's rock and roll.
3. If women are involved, they're scantily clad and willing.
4. No references to "OE800" or "a 40" or "big butts" in the lyrics.
5. None of that drum-machine garbage or scratchy records.
6. No "performers" with names like "Flavor Flavor."
>I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed here before.
>
>-dx (gearing up for great elevator parties in the dorms)
It's in the FAQ, but people forget after they've been off the net for
the summer.
--
Larry Spence
la...@cs.com
uunet!csccat!larry or sun!texsun!csccat!larry
Shlomo
>
>In article <50vnt...@netcom.com> d...@netcom.com (dx) writes:
>>What the hell are you guys talking about? Rap music isn't music?
>
>Damn right, you don't even have to play an instrument to "make" rap.
>>What is it then?
>Look at the subject line...
>>What do you mean by "music"?
>
>1. It's got guitars.
classical music has no guitars !!!!!
>2. It's rock and roll.
so then all music beside rock and roll is "not music"? interesting....
>3. If women are involved, they're scantily clad and willing.
doesn't this apply to hard rock and heavy metal?
>4. No references to "OE800" or "a 40" or "big butts" in the lyrics.
so only rap with sex or violence is "not music" while all other is?
>5. None of that drum-machine garbage or scratchy records.
so ALL other acts never use drum machines?
>6. No "performers" with names like "Flavor Flavor."
his name is "Flavor FLAV"
apparently you don't know anything about rap. My guess is that you have an
extremely closed mind, and you're trying to load some bull on the net about
rap. Either that or you get some pleasure out of starting flame wars.
>>I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed here before.
with attitudes like yours, what's to discuss? maybe you mean DIS-CUSS =
DIS - what you're trying to do.
CUSS - what people with half a mind are doing to you.
- peace.
Russ Korins
angry.
If you don't like rap, as I don't, then do what I do:
Ignore it.
Russ Korins
PO Box 520 Yale Station
New Haven CT 06520-0520
John Fereira
>
>> Well, HA!, at least I'm not listening to that (c)rap music, if
>> you could even call it music!
>
>it then? What do you mean by "music"? I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed
>here before.
You don't realize how funny this is.
--
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira | Auspex Systems | "Auspex does not share my opinions. |
| jo...@auspex.com | Santa Clara CA | So Why am I still working here?" |
+==========================================================================+
Rahul G. Patwari
Music can be any aural expression. Many people don't consider rock-n-roll
music (esp. when it first came out), but now that it's gained
acceptance... Listen to the "new" classical styles, like Black
Angels by Georg Krumm--that's the only one I can recall--it sounds like
traffic noise to me; but many composers (people whom you would think
have more authority than any of us do) consider it music.
By the way, I do like rap.
--
Rahul G. Patwari
rgp3...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
University Of Illinois
At Urbana-Champaign
John Fereira
>In article <1992Sep13.1...@cs.com>, la...@cs.com (Larry Spence) says:
|>
|>In article <50vnt...@netcom.com> d...@netcom.com (dx) writes:
|>>What the hell are you guys talking about? Rap music isn't music?
|>
|>Damn right, you don't even have to play an instrument to "make" rap.
|>>What is it then?
|>Look at the subject line...
|>>What do you mean by "music"?
|>
|>1. It's got guitars.
|
|classical music has no guitars !!!!!
|>2. It's rock and roll.
|
|so then all music beside rock and roll is "not music"? interesting....
Yea, that was a pretty lame requirement. Blues, Jazz, Classical, Country,
Bluegrass, Folk, none of that is music I guess.
|>3. If women are involved, they're scantily clad and willing.
|
What do scantily clad women have to do with music. Maybe this guy
would spend less time watching MTV. I guess music didn't exist before
MTV.
|
|>4. No references to "OE800" or "a 40" or "big butts" in the lyrics.
|
|so only rap with sex or violence is "not music" while all other is?
I recently posted the lyrics to a song which included
"I don't care who I hurt.
I don't care who I do wrong"
and goes on to tell how you can tell where he's been by the fires he's
started in the neighborhood with his gas bomb.
Who is this rapper that's advocating such violence? It's Peter Gabriel
from "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", recorded in 1974.
|
|>5. None of that drum-machine garbage or scratchy records.
|
|so ALL other acts never use drum machines?
|
|>6. No "performers" with names like "Flavor Flavor."
|
|his name is "Flavor FLAV"
He said *like* "Flavor Flavor". The point is that it's a gimmick. It
seems every rap artist much have a handle. There are so many non-musical
related aspects to rap music that it detracts from the music that they
are doing. Wearing clothes backwards? Come on. Wearing overalls with
the straps hanging out? Why? Scantially clad women? O.K., one out of
three isn't bad.
|
|>>I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed here before.
|
|with attitudes like yours, what's to discuss? maybe you mean DIS-CUSS =
| DIS - what you're trying to do.
| CUSS - what people with half a mind are doing to you.
There's another thing, inventing words like "dis" and then using them
in everyday language. If rap music was based more on talent and less
on image it would be more legitimate. Of course, if someone has a closed
mind there's no sense trying to convince them that there is anything
legitimate about rap music.
Ray Shea
Sorry, that question's off-limits.
>Rap music isn't music? What is
>it then? What do you mean by "music"? I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed
>here before.
Bingo.
>-dx (gearing up for great elevator parties in the dorms)
Do tell!
--
Ray Shea "Them New Agers will buy anything if
UniSQL, Inc. you tell 'em it's from Bali."
unisql!r...@cs.utexas.edu -- Eric the Bondo Fish Man
DoD #0372, '88 Hawk NT650, '74 Hubsh Loadstar
Ethan Douglas Straffin
Sigh. Does _everyone_ need to add smilies for the humor impaired
_all_ the time? The original "six definitions" were a parody of the
usual "rap is not music" flame war that seems to come up here every
few weeks, and I for one found them pretty darn funny.
Between this insipid flame war and the "Fuck you all..." one (which
really should have run its course by now), I think I'll just head off
to alt.music.alternative until this group is ready to talk about music
again.
Ethan
--
ToriAmosLloydColeSistersOfMercyDepecheModeJudyBatsTribeHeartThrobsCarterUSM
*** ethan d straffin stra...@xenon.stanford.edu ***
*** Get out there and vote! ***
REMPetShopBoysChillsChurchErasureWarrenZevonBillyBraggCure Stanford Band :)
dx
<Explanation of what is music>
Me...
>> I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed here before.
X42...@BARILVM.BITNET (Shlomo)...
> with attitudes like yours, what's to discuss? maybe you mean DIS-CUSS =
> DIS - what you're trying to do.
> CUSS - what people with half a mind are doing to you.
> - peace.
The attitude ("Attitude, you got a fuckin' attitude"... was that song music?)
that you were responding to was Larry Spence's. The amazement that this dis-
cussion hadn't come up before was mine. I am not Larry Spence, as least I
don't think I am, right Larry?
With the ability to correctly attribute text to writers, I'm amazed that...
that... well, I don't really have a good insult handy. Anyone want to help
out?
Gregory Taylor
gotta stop...I know my ribs are going to start aching anytime soon from
having laughed too long and hard at the brouhaha to follow. Look, I
*know* it's the fall semester and they're all back, but please....
--
A machine plays many pianos at once and the music holds them aloft, a different
tune for each ship. Freedom has nothing to do with control and control nothing
to do with my weak heart lonely for its birthday and the excitement of pure
sunlight and of snow parting into countless buoyant shapes over the airfield.
EIV...@cms.cc.wayne.edu
>|with attitudes like yours, what's to discuss? maybe you mean DIS-CUSS =
>| DIS - what you're trying to do.
>| CUSS - what people with half a mind are doing to you.
>
>There's another thing, inventing words like "dis" and then using them
>in everyday language.
Common useage has no merit on the net! ;-)
>If rap music was based more on talent and less
>on image it would be more legitimate.
>Of course, if someone has a closed
>mind there's no sense trying to convince them that there is anything
>legitimate about rap music.
--Eric
====================================== eiv...@cms.cc.wayne.edu
|[ RP-1 [____]|[ 1] -<>-<>- 0 0 ]| WSU, Detroit, Michigan USA
| 6 7 8 9 0 |
| ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== | Just say techno!
| 1 2 3 4 5 |
| ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== | "So thick, it stands up
|____________________________________| to a straw!"
John Fereira
|In article <14...@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
|jo...@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
|
|>In article <92258.165...@BARILVM.BITNET> X42...@BARILVM.BITNET (Shlomo) writes:
|>|with attitudes like yours, what's to discuss? maybe you mean DIS-CUSS =
|>| DIS - what you're trying to do.
|>| CUSS - what people with half a mind are doing to you.
|>
|>There's another thing, inventing words like "dis" and then using them
|>in everyday language.
|
|"Dis" is in the new OED. I guess that makes it a "real" word.
|Common useage has no merit on the net! ;-)
Montoya said, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you
think it means." Nice tap dance, though.
|>If rap music was based more on talent and less
|>on image it would be more legitimate.
|
|More legitimate? Is that like "more pregnant"? :-)
Another tap dance. Can you rebut the claim that much of rap music is based
more on image than talent? Or at least, that image plays a signicant role
on the success of a rap artist?
Larry Spence
>>In article <1992Sep13.1...@cs.com>, la...@cs.com (Larry Spence) says:
>|>
>|>In article <50vnt...@netcom.com> d...@netcom.com (dx) writes:
>|>>What the hell are you guys talking about? Rap music isn't music?
>|>
>|>Damn right, you don't even have to play an instrument to "make" rap.
>|>>What is it then?
>|>Look at the subject line...
>|>>What do you mean by "music"?
>|>
>|>1. It's got guitars.
>|
>|classical music has no guitars !!!!!
>
>Yes it does. Have you ever heard of Julian Bream, Albinez, Manual De Falla?
What is this, some of that "Tejano" or "Reggae Espanol" stuff? Classical
music is for wimps anyway -- I listen to music that's for rockers! When
was the last time you got laid after talking to a babe about Schoenberg?
It just does not work, face it.
>|>2. It's rock and roll.
>|
>|so then all music beside rock and roll is "not music"? interesting....
>
>Yea, that was a pretty lame requirement. Blues, Jazz, Classical, Country,
>Bluegrass, Folk, none of that is music I guess.
Nope, not a one of them. And _especially_ not that reggae crap. A bunch
of stoned-out Jamaicans babbling stuff that's not even in english, why
should I pay to hear this?? One thing that might be worse than (c)rap is
that "du(m)b" reggae... And those folkies, ugh, a bunch of liberal wacko
treehuggers. %(
>|>3. If women are involved, they're scantily clad and willing.
>|
>What do scantily clad women have to do with music.
I can see that you have been listening to the wrong stuff! What did you
spend you summer vacation doing, taking piano lessons and listening to
Enya?
>Maybe this guy
>would spend less time watching MTV. I guess music didn't exist before
>MTV.
No, actually there was rock & roll long before MTV! Whitesnake, Led
Zeppelin, Ted Nugent, Journey, a lot of great stuff. Check it out!
>|>4. No references to "OE800" or "a 40" or "big butts" in the lyrics.
>|
>|so only rap with sex or violence is "not music" while all other is?
No, all (c)rap is "not music." It's a _fact_. Are there any articles
about (c)rap in magazines like Rip or Kerrang? Noooo..... Have you
ever seen a rapper on Headbangers' Ball? Noooooo............
>Who is this rapper that's advocating such violence? It's Peter Gabriel
>from "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", recorded in 1974.
One of those artsy posers, yuck. Now he drags a bunch of foreigners (not
to be confused with the great band) into his big-bucks studio and makes
this "world music" stuff, which might be even worse than (c)rap! Sheesh...
>|>5. None of that drum-machine garbage or scratchy records.
>|
>|so ALL other acts never use drum machines?
Not if they're playing music. There's gotta be a guy behind a drum set,
_playing drums_, for it to be rock and roll (and therefore music). Isn't
this obvious?
>|>6. No "performers" with names like "Flavor Flavor."
>|
>|his name is "Flavor FLAV"
If I could tell what the hell he's saying, I would've gotten his name
right. Just proves my point.
>He said *like* "Flavor Flavor". The point is that it's a gimmick. It
>seems every rap artist much have a handle. There are so many non-musical
>related aspects to rap music that it detracts from the music that they
>are doing. Wearing clothes backwards? Come on. Wearing overalls with
>the straps hanging out? Why?
I knew someone out there was with me! See, when one of the dudes in
Winger or Bon Jovi (yeah!) has big hair or ripped jeans, _that's rock &
roll_. When some (c)rapper wears a shower clock around his neck, _that
is not rock & roll_. Hasn't this been discussed before?
>|>>I'm amazed this hasn't been discussed here before.
Yeah!
>There's another thing, inventing words like "dis" and then using them
>in everyday language. If rap music was based more on talent and less
>on image it would be more legitimate.
I know, I know! When was the last time you heard a decent guitar solo
in a (c)rap song? When??
>Of course, if someone has a closed
>mind there's no sense trying to convince them that there is anything
>legitimate about rap music.
Why bother when you can listen to some real music? Rap is just a fad
anyway, it's only been around for a few years and will probably (hopefully)
be gone in a couple more. I think we should start a boycott of all the
good stores, like Sam Goody, Sound Warehouse, Hastings, etc., to get them
to take that (c)rap off their shelves. No one buys it around here anyway.
Where do people discuss real music on this bbs? I haven't seen a single
Damn Yankees posting since I logged onto this board. Bogus.
just a guy made of dots and lines
After overdosing on Halcion, Shlomo <X42...@BARILVM.BITNET> typed:
>In article <1992Sep13.1...@cs.com>, la...@cs.com (Larry Spence) says:
>>
>>In article <50vnt...@netcom.com> d...@netcom.com (dx) writes:
>>>What the hell are you guys talking about? Rap music isn't music?
>>
>>Damn right, you don't even have to play an instrument to "make" rap.
>>>What is it then?
>>Look at the subject line...
>>>What do you mean by "music"?
>>
>>1. It's got guitars.
>
>classical music has no guitars !!!!!
Tell it to Andres Segovia, buddy.
>>6. No "performers" with names like "Flavor Flavor."
>
>his name is "Flavor FLAV"
>apparently you don't know anything about rap. My guess is that you have an
> extremely closed mind, and you're trying to load some bull on the net about
> rap. Either that or you get some pleasure out of starting flame wars.
Sorry, Shlomo, it's a joke. Larry and dx and Clay and Ray are having
a little inside joke by replaying, tongue-in-cheek, the inane arguments
against rap that seem to appear every few months around here. Which puts
me in mind of Marx's misquote of Hegel (okay, I admit I only know this
'cause of recent controversy in _The Nation_) to the effect that history
repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce. Or maybe
the more appropriate aphorism is the one about those who don't know
history being doomed to repeat it. I dunno.
And to the rest of you guys, sorry to rain on your parade by explaining
the joke -- but we don't want the real flames starting up again, do we?
Do we?
-- Stewart
--
"The world would be a better place if it were just women and me."
-- Andy Partridge
/* uunet!sco!stewarte -or- stew...@sco.COM -or- Stewart Evans */
Clayton Glad
>Another tap dance. Can you rebut the claim that much of rap music is based
>more on image than talent? Or at least, that image plays a signicant role
>on the success of a rap artist?
Good question. Can *you* rebut the claim that much of rock music is
based more on image than on talent? Or, for that matter, that the
commercial success of artists such as Wynton Marsalis, Anne-Sophie
Mutter, and Joe Satriani is largely a matter of image-management?
While you're at it, what's talent, anyway?
[Okay, you guys. I promise to stop lobbing to myself if you do the same.]
-- Clay
"Here come my shoes. Here comes me."
-- David Thomas
Ray Shea
>Nope, not a one of them. And _especially_ not that reggae crap. A bunch
>of stoned-out Jamaicans babbling stuff that's not even in english, why
>should I pay to hear this?? One thing that might be worse than (c)rap is
>that "du(m)b" reggae...
Or even worse, that jazz crap. Who do they think they are, honking
and squirting that *noise*? It's got too many notes! Bebop, HA!
Be(e)d(r)op(pings) is more like it!
>I can see that you have been listening to the wrong stuff! What did you
>spend you summer vacation doing, taking piano lessons and listening to
>Enya?
Haha! "Rock the cradle of love" huh, Larry? You tell 'em!
>No, all (c)rap is "not music." It's a _fact_. Are there any articles
>about (c)rap in magazines like Rip or Kerrang? Noooo..... Have you
>ever seen a rapper on Headbangers' Ball? Noooooo............
Never hear them on "Classic Rock" radio either. "Classic rap" -- now
THERE's an oxymoron if I ever was one!!!!!
>>Who is this rapper that's advocating such violence? It's Peter Gabriel
>>from "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", recorded in 1974.
>
>One of those artsy posers, yuck.
Yeah, I used to listen to Emerson,Palmer,& Gabriel (or even EPG&Y) when
I was in high school, but now I'm a rocker! Dude! Metallica rules!
>Now he drags a bunch of foreigners (not
>to be confused with the great band) into his big-bucks studio and makes
>this "world music" stuff, which might be even worse than (c)rap! Sheesh...
Really. Like New Jersey isn't in the world. (Bruce!)
>I know, I know! When was the last time you heard a decent guitar solo
>in a (c)rap song? When??
You don't, cause those (c)rappers aren't even musicians. In fact, they
even sample all their music, they don't write music at all. So they're
not even COMPsicians! I mean, if Vanilla Ice & Tone Loc are the best
(c)rap has to offer, then give me rock!
>Where do people discuss real music on this bbs? I haven't seen a single
>Damn Yankees posting since I logged onto this board. Bogus.
Hey, I'd like to start a group called alt.music.damn.yankees. Let's
vote; voting will end on September 18th; all votes should be posted
to rec.music.misc, rec.music.lists, and rec.music.gdead ('cause the
grateful dead gets it's own group, OK?)
Does anybody know how to start a new group?
--
Ray Shea
UniSQL, Inc. it's my noise
unisql!r...@cs.utexas.edu
DoD #0372, '88 Hawk NT650, '74 Hubsch Loadstar
Ray Shea
>
>And to the rest of you guys, sorry to rain on your parade by explaining
>the joke -- but we don't want the real flames starting up again, do we?
>Do we?
NO! That would fill this group up with a lot of useless flames! I thought
this was a MUSIC bbs!
dx
> Good question. Can *you* rebut the claim that much of rock music is
> based more on image than on talent?
Now what just a minute! Are you or aren't you the same Clayton Glad who
just a few months ago was saying how much you liked Michael Bolton? Are
you now going to claim: (1) that Michael Bolton is a "rock" artist, and
that (2) a lot (at least 50%!) of his popularity isn't based on that dumb
haircut of his? (I just bet you have a haircut just like him!).
C'mon Clay, at least be consistent.
ANDREW DOCKERY
>From: gl...@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Clayton Glad)
>Subject: Re: (C)Rap "music"
>Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 18:31:20 GMT
>jo...@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>>Another tap dance. Can you rebut the claim that much of rap music is based
>>more on image than talent? Or at least, that image plays a signicant role
>>on the success of a rap artist?
>
>Good question. Can *you* rebut the claim that much of rock music is
>based more on image than on talent? Or, for that matter, that the
>commercial success of artists such as Wynton Marsalis, Anne-Sophie
>Mutter, and Joe Satriani is largely a matter of image-management?
>
>While you're at it, what's talent, anyway?
Let's just say that talent isn't saying words at a hundred miles an hour
to some tacky drum beat just because they can't sing.
Talent is: actually singing to a song and playing guitar solos which must
have taken hours to compose and practise to get perfect.
I mean, even in the words of Kris Kross, in their single "Warm it Up", they
say:
"I rehearse to keep it sharp as a knife, man"
Does this mean that they're actually _boasting_ that they practise?????
Just goes to show that you require considerably more talent to play rock
n' roll than you do to "sing" (c)rap "music".
Besides, rap sounds like shit!!
Andrew
**********************************************************************
* Andrew Dockery * "Let's waste him...no *
* 1076...@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au * offence." *
* d...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au * -Corporal Hicks *
* Monash Uni, Melbourne, Australia * "Aliens" *
**********************************************************************
Ray Shea
>based more on image than on talent? Or, for that matter, that the
>commercial success of artists such as Wynton Marsalis, Anne-Sophie
>Mutter, and Joe Satriani is largely a matter of image-management?
I'd like to see *anyone* try to rebut the claim that at least 90%
percent of any musical style (or anyTHING) is complete shit.
>[Okay, you guys. I promise to stop lobbing to myself if you do the same.]
You've been gobbing on yourself?
Oh, LOBbing. Nevermind.
Clayton Glad
>Now what just a minute! Are you or aren't you the same Clayton Glad who
>just a few months ago was saying how much you liked Michael Bolton? Are
>you now going to claim: (1) that Michael Bolton is a "rock" artist, and
>that (2) a lot (at least 50%!) of his popularity isn't based on that dumb
>haircut of his? (I just bet you have a haircut just like him!).
>C'mon Clay, at least be consistent.
Look. Michael Bolton writes all his own songs, he can play *seven*
instruments, and he has a degree in voice from the University of
New York. Name just *one* (c)rap artist who can boast those kind
of credentials.
Clayton Glad
>In article <1992Sep16.1...@Csli.Stanford.EDU> gl...@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Clayton Glad) writes:
>>While you're at it, what's talent, anyway?
>Talent is: actually singing to a song and playing guitar solos which must
>have taken hours to compose and practise to get perfect.
>Besides, rap sounds like shit!!
Okay. You got me there.
andrew.j.whitman
>In article <1992Sep15.2...@cs.com> la...@cs.com (Larry Spence) writes:
>>Nope, not a one of them. And _especially_ not that reggae crap. A bunch
>>of stoned-out Jamaicans babbling stuff that's not even in english, why
>>should I pay to hear this?? One thing that might be worse than (c)rap is
>>that "du(m)b" reggae...
Have you ever even *listened* to much reggie? I doubt it. Start
with some Jacob Marley and open your mind.
>Or even worse, that jazz crap. Who do they think they are, honking
>and squirting that *noise*? It's got too many notes! Bebop, HA!
>Be(e)d(r)op(pings) is more like it!
That's really a George Bu(ll)sh(it) thing to say. Okay, so maybe
it's true for some of that avaunt guard shit like Wynton Marsalis.
But have you ever heard Kenny G or Spiro Gyro? Kenny G does not
play to many notes!!!! I've heard good things about a guy named
Coaltrain to. Has anybody ever heard his CDs?
>>I can see that you have been listening to the wrong stuff! What did you
>>spend you summer vacation doing, taking piano lessons and listening to
>>Enya?
>
>Haha! "Rock the cradle of love" huh, Larry? You tell 'em!
Hey, watch it! I really liked "Sunoco Flow." And she's a babe.
>>No, all (c)rap is "not music." It's a _fact_. Are there any articles
>>about (c)rap in magazines like Rip or Kerrang? Noooo..... Have you
>>ever seen a rapper on Headbangers' Ball? Noooooo............
How can it be a _fact_ if it can't be proved? Huh, Mr. Science?
It's *not* a fact, and I can prove it. Name one country or bluegrass
song that uses samples or those scratchy rhythms? See how easy that was?
>Never hear them on "Classic Rock" radio either. "Classic rap" -- now
>THERE's an oxymoron if I ever was one!!!!!
No, you're just a moron!!!!!! ha! (no flame intended)
>>>Who is this rapper that's advocating such violence? It's Peter Gabriel
>>>from "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", recorded in 1974.
>>
>>One of those artsy posers, yuck.
>
>Yeah, I used to listen to Emerson,Palmer,& Gabriel (or even EPG&Y) when
>I was in high school, but now I'm a rocker! Dude! Metallica rules!
I can't stand it. Music doesn't get any better than Emerson, Palmer,
Gabriel and Yes. "The Lamb Lies Down at an Exhibition" is brillant,
and "Tales from Carnevil 9" is awesome to. Why do you feel like you
have to critisize it? I myself like all kinds of music - Nirvana,
Rush, Queensryche, King's X - and yes, EPG&Y. Open you mind. Expand
your horzons.
>>Now he drags a bunch of foreigners (not
>>to be confused with the great band) into his big-bucks studio and makes
>>this "world music" stuff, which might be even worse than (c)rap! Sheesh...
I like some of that Seltic music, though.
>Really. Like New Jersey isn't in the world. (Bruce!)
>
>>I know, I know! When was the last time you heard a decent guitar solo
>>in a (c)rap song? When??
So? When was the last time you heared a decent saxaphone solo on a
Billy ray Cyrus song? Huh?
>You don't, cause those (c)rappers aren't even musicians. In fact, they
>even sample all their music, they don't write music at all. So they're
>not even COMPsicians! I mean, if Vanilla Ice & Tone Loc are the best
>(c)rap has to offer, then give me rock!
>
>>Where do people discuss real music on this bbs? I haven't seen a single
>>Damn Yankees posting since I logged onto this board. Bogus.
>
>Hey, I'd like to start a group called alt.music.damn.yankees. Let's
>vote; voting will end on September 18th; all votes should be posted
>to rec.music.misc, rec.music.lists, and rec.music.gdead ('cause the
>grateful dead gets it's own group, OK?)
I'm for it.
>Does anybody know how to start a new group?
You have to follow the bbs creation guidelines and stiplations. That
means:
1) Post a call for votes.
2) No profanity, because some people will be affended (maybe you
should think about changing the name).
3) Ask all your friends to vote. As MTV says, if you dont choose
you loose.
4) Give people till the end of the week. If you start on a Friday,
you might want to extend the deadline till Monday.
5) Count the votes.
6) If you have more than 10 "yes" votes, then go ahead and create
the group.
7) Expect and encourage perversity. People have different backgrounds.
You will get a very perverse group. Some people may like, for example,
both Damn Yankees and Queensryche. That's okay.
8) Hire a moderator if things get out of hand.
I'll go ahead and cast a "yes" vote now. Do you want me to count
the votes? That's one. Anybody else besides me and Larry (two)
want this group?
>--
>Ray Shea
>UniSQL, Inc. it's my noise
>unisql!r...@cs.utexas.edu
>DoD #0372, '88 Hawk NT650, '74 Hubsch Loadstar
Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw or
a...@cblpn.att.com
Malcolm Humes
>I like some of that Seltic music, though.
Are they the same guys from that basketball team? They're not (c)rapping,
are they? The least they could do is funk...
. . . . . . .
: : : : : : :
3 3 3 3 3 3 3
D D D D D D D
////\ ////\ The Funk-Meister /\\\\ /\\\\
//// ____________//// _______________||||_______________ \\\\____________ \\\\
\\\\ ------------\\\\ ---------------||||--------------- ////------------ ////
\\\\/ \\\\/ mal...@wrs.com \//// \////
soren--Ms. Jackson if you're nasty
>Look. Michael Bolton writes all his own songs, he can play *seven*
>instruments, and he has a degree in voice from the University of
>New York. Name just *one* (c)rap artist who can boast those kind
>of credentials.
Oh yeah! Vanilla Ice has a PhD in PHILOSOPHY. I looked at his dissertation
once. It's called *The Bankrupcy of the Categorical Imperative*, and it
doesn't cite Kant ONCE!
--
"From your signature it is obvious that you are a homosexual"
soren f petersen : i AM NOT : --Doc
spet...@peruvian.utah.edu : THE university OF utah :
"How could I dance with another/When I saw him standing there" --Tiffany
dx
> Look. Michael Bolton writes all his own songs, he can play *seven*
> instruments, and he has a degree in voice from the University of
> New York.
Oh *great*! Now you're going to trot out your pet theory on the inherent
superiority of the compsician over the plain and simple musician. Jeez, I'm
getting tired of hearing you make that same argument over and over.
And, as far as I can tell, the only thing Michael Bolton ever got from the
University of New York was a peppermint patty.
-dx
Ray Shea
>In article <36...@unisql.UUCP> r...@unisql.UUCP (Ray Shea) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep15.2...@cs.com> la...@cs.com (Larry Spence) writes:
>Have you ever even *listened* to much reggie? I doubt it. Start
>with some Jacob Marley and open your mind.
Man, I listened to some Twiggy Marley, and even if it wasn't as
"du(m)b" as Prince Fry, it was still shit! And my mind isn't close!
>>Or even worse, that jazz crap. Who do they think they are, honking
>>and squirting that *noise*? It's got too many notes! Bebop, HA!
>>Be(e)d(r)op(pings) is more like it!
>
>That's really a George Bu(ll)sh(it) thing to say.
Well, if that isn't the P(er)ot calling the kettle colored...
>I've heard good things about a guy named
>Coaltrain to. Has anybody ever heard his CDs?
No, but I got really drunk on Cold Train once when I was in college.
I puked for days! Yuck!
>>Haha! "Rock the cradle of love" huh, Larry? You tell 'em!
>
>Hey, watch it! I really liked "Sunoco Flow." And she's a babe.
Enya dreams is more like it!!! ;-) ;-) ;-) (a pun, get it?)
>>Never hear them on "Classic Rock" radio either. "Classic rap" -- now
>>THERE's an oxymoron if I ever was one!!!!!
>
>No, you're just a moron!!!!!! ha! (no flame intended)
I didn't see any smileys, so I'm going to take that as a flame.
I'm reporting you to your sysadmin, *AND* I'm going to sue you
for slander! This is a public forum, you know.
>>Yeah, I used to listen to Emerson,Palmer,& Gabriel (or even EPG&Y) when
>>I was in high school, but now I'm a rocker! Dude! Metallica rules!
>
>I can't stand it. Music doesn't get any better than Emerson, Palmer,
>Gabriel and Yes. "The Lamb Lies Down at an Exhibition" is brillant,
>and "Tales from Carnevil 9" is awesome to.
Did you know Rick Wakefield used to pork Suzie Quatro? That's what
they wrote "Siberian Quatro" about, she's such a dog!
>Why do you feel like you have to critisize it?
Even thoughI don't like it anymore, I still define it as music, unlike
that (c)rap shit! (see Subject: line).
>I myself like all kinds of music - Nirvana,
>Rush, Queensryche, King's X - and yes, EPG&Y. Open you mind. Expand
>your horzons.
They *are* broad. I like rock *AND* rock'n'roll AND metal. Top that!
>I like some of that Seltic music, though.
It's spelled Keltic, you dumbshit.
>I'll go ahead and cast a "yes" vote now. Do you want me to count
>the votes? That's one. Anybody else besides me and Larry (two)
>want this group?
ALL RIGHT! That makes three YES votes, and no NO votes. How
do I create the bbs? I don't think my newsreader lets me do this.
Where is the central Usenet BBS control? Are they on this board?
--
Ray Shea
UniSQL, Inc. i know it's lame, but i think it's cool
Ray Shea
>
>Oh *great*! Now you're going to trot out your pet theory on the inherent
>superiority of the compsician over the plain and simple musician. Jeez, I'm
>getting tired of hearing you make that same argument over and over.
It's not a pet theory, it's true! It's been proved mathematically. I
hope you're not trying to deny that it's been proven unless you have
references to that fact.
H. Thornbu
Speaking of mathematical/scientific justification of musical superiority, I
think it should be _obvious_ that, since the amount of informational content
is directly proportional to the entropy contained within (some famous
information theorist said this - forgot his name), that radio static is
BY FAR the most SUPERIOR form of music. Plus the most diverse! I remember
the last time I heard two snippets of static that sounded the same, I sampled
them into my computer and the correlation was only 0.0016% (!!!!!!!!!!!)
Hey, I listen to it all the time in the shower, under various controlled
substances, etc. I also make recordings of these high-entropy occurrences
whenever my antenna doesn't work; please mail me if you're interested.
Remember, each recording carries some sentimental value; for example, that
which I got when I was trying to tune in to this rare Guns'N'Roses concert
and the antenna went out is gonna set you back a cool $30.00. But I'll mail
anyone a full price list if interested. Heck, for pure (info + uniqueness)/
price ratio, you'd probably pay ANYTHING for these rarities and
epitomizations of REAL SUPERIOR MUSIC.
-H
+_*#+_*$+_*@#+*$+#_*#+_*#+_*@+_#*+#_*+@#*@+__#*+$*_#*$+@*_*+*#-=*_$*+#_*@$+_*
-H | Hey! If you're living in the LA area and your band wants
(hthornbu@jarthur)| on-campus bookings, send me a DEMO TAPE at:
------------------| Platt Campus Center Box 640/ Harvey Mudd College/ East
------------------| 12th St., Claremont, CA 91711 and I'll see what I can do!
+@##%$_+@#$%@#+_@+_-=+#$%@#$-+@#$_#@+#_$@#$_++@#_$%*%@#_$+@$*&%$*%@_$++--=**
Clayton Glad
>>and squirting that *noise*? It's got too many notes! Bebop, HA!
>>Be(e)d(r)op(pings) is more like it!
>That's really a George Bu(ll)sh(it) thing to say. Okay, so maybe
>it's true for some of that avaunt guard shit like Wynton Marsalis.
>But have you ever heard Kenny G or Spiro Gyro? Kenny G does not
>play to many notes!!!! I've heard good things about a guy named
>Coaltrain to. Has anybody ever heard his CDs?
Ive been getting way into jazz ever since my roomate turned me
on to Acid Jazz. The guy your thinking of of is Ornelle Coaltrain.
He played a white plastic trumpet and died of a heroine overdose when
he was just 35. He did amazing things that no one since Hendrix had
done with harmony -- he played notes that noone knew could be played
in the places he played 'em.
The next two guys to pick up on this stuff were Kenny G and Spyro
Gyra. Both Kenny and Spyro pretty much invented progressive jazz,
which is an offshute of progressive rock. Other great artists in
progressive jazz are ...
The Worlds Most Dangerous Band -- Yea, Paul Shafer goofs around,
but all those guys have studied in the best music schools.
Brandon Mayfield -- He did the theme from Shaft and now hes on
the tonight show. He teaches trumpet at a college in New Orleens.
Yanni -- Amazing! He plays keayboards better than anyone since
the guy form the Doors. And its all imporvised right there on the
spot and based on complicated math formulas he got from his computer
science degree.
So move on, dudes, open your minds to some jazz. Lot's of todays
best bands use a lot of jazz, like Queensryche.
Richard Todd
>Have you ever even *listened* to much reggie? I doubt it. Start
Afraid not. Up until now I didn't know there even *were* any Reggie Jackson
albums. Are they as good as William Shatner's?
--
Richard Todd rmt...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu rmt...@chinet.chi.il.us
rmt...@servalan.uucp New Improved Domain: rmt...@servalan.servalan.com
"Elvis has left Bettendorf!"
Clayton Glad
>>Hey, I'd like to start a group called alt.music.damn.yankees.
>I'll go ahead and cast a "yes" vote now. Do you want me to count
>the votes? That's one. Anybody else besides me and Larry (two)
>want this group?
I vote no. If you create alt.musical.damn.yankees then everybody
will be asking for alt.musical.sweet.charity, alt.musical.chess,
and even alt.musical.the.most.happy.fella.
Mark McKinzie
>a...@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>>>Hey, I'd like to start a group called alt.music.damn.yankees.
>>I'll go ahead and cast a "yes" vote now. Do you want me to count
>>the votes? That's one. Anybody else besides me and Larry (two)
>>want this group?
>I vote no. If you create alt.musical.damn.yankees then everybody
>will be asking for alt.musical.sweet.charity, alt.musical.chess,
>and even alt.musical.the.most.happy.fella.
Yeah, but think of all the fun we can have cross-posting to rec.pets.cats!
--
Mark McKinzie | Listen, if they're going to buy lunch boxes,
mcki...@math.wisc.edu | they might as well buy David Cassidy lunch boxes.
UW Dept. of Mathematics|
Madison, WI 53706 | -David Cassidy-
Ray Shea
>I remember
>the last time I heard two snippets of static that sounded the same, I sampled
>them into my computer and the correlation was only 0.0016% (!!!!!!!!!!!)
You *sampled* them? Then obviously it can't be music. You should
listen to some *real* rock like Metal Machine Music.
John Fereira
>
>The next two guys to pick up on this stuff were Kenny G and Spyro
>Gyra. Both Kenny and Spyro pretty much invented progressive jazz,
>which is an offshute of progressive rock. Other great artists in
>progressive jazz are ...
really like his sax playing. Someone told me that Spyro wasn't jazz. Of
course it's jazz. It's got a saxophone in it.
John Fereira
>
|>Another tap dance. Can you rebut the claim that much of rap music is based
|>more on image than talent? Or at least, that image plays a signicant role
|>on the success of a rap artist?
|
|Good question. Can *you* rebut the claim that much of rock music is
|based more on image than on talent?
Since you answered a question with another question I'll have to ask you
to define rock music.
Greg Skinner
>In article <1992Sep16.1...@Csli.Stanford.EDU> gl...@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Clayton Glad) writes:
>>While you're at it, what's talent, anyway?
>Let's just say that talent isn't saying words at a hundred miles an hour
>to some tacky drum beat just because they can't sing.
>Talent is: actually singing to a song and playing guitar solos which must
>have taken hours to compose and practise to get perfect.
How do you know rappers can't sing?
What makes you think rapping is so easy, as compared to singing and
playing a guitar solo? Can you dance, rap, and communicate with an
audience at the same time? How about doing a few rap sets for us (we
get to pick what you do)?
>I mean, even in the words of Kris Kross, in their single "Warm it Up", they
>say:
>"I rehearse to keep it sharp as a knife, man"
>Does this mean that they're actually _boasting_ that they practise?????
Kindly do not judge all rap acts by Kris Kross.
--gregbo
Greg Skinner
>Look. Michael Bolton writes all his own songs, he can play *seven*
>instruments, and he has a degree in voice from the University of
>New York.
If Michael Bolton has a voice degree, he either
* forgot everything he learned
* ignored everything he learned, or
* learned nothing
because his voice sounds horrible on "Georgia On My Mind" -- really
ugly and throaty, not with the clarity of tone that a trained singer
is supposed to have.
--gregbo
andrew.j.whitman
He probably picked this up in the Principles of Rasp class taught
by the legendary U. of NY voice professor R. Charles Phlegming.
Phlegming has been hawking his theories at UNY (which, I believe,
is a short subway ride from NYU) for at least twenty years now,
and some of his most successful students include Bolton, Don
Henley, and Darrell Hall. That quality that you misconstrue
as "ugly and throaty" is actually the product of long years of
chain smoking, a chronically ruptured hernia, and painstaking
practice. Give the man some credit. Anybody who has an eleven
octave range is okay in my book.
>--gregbo
John Fereira
|>because his voice sounds horrible on "Georgia On My Mind" -- really
|>ugly and throaty, not with the clarity of tone that a trained singer
|>is supposed to have.
|
|He probably picked this up in the Principles of Rasp class taught
|by the legendary U. of NY voice professor R. Charles Phlegming.
Is this where Rasp Music comes from?
|Phlegming has been hawking his theories at UNY (which, I believe,
|is a short subway ride from NYU) for at least twenty years now,
|and some of his most successful students include Bolton, Don
|Henley, and Darrell Hall.
Wasn't he was also Joe Cocker's thesis advisor.
John Fereira
>In article <10764380.1...@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au> Andrew Dockery writes:
|>In article <1992Sep16.1...@Csli.Stanford.EDU> gl...@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Clayton Glad) writes:
|>>While you're at it, what's talent, anyway?
|>Talent is: actually singing to a song and playing guitar solos which must
|>have taken hours to compose and practise to get perfect.
Now that we've all got the definition of talent we can proceed. Guess I'll
have to throw out all those classical albums. I'm keeping the Albeniz
and De Falla though. A guy can get laid talking about that stuff.
|What makes you think rapping is so easy, as compared to singing and
|playing a guitar solo? Can you dance, rap, and communicate with an
|audience at the same time?
The thing is, some people don't find that the ability to dance, rap and
communicate with the audience contributes anything the music that they
like. But, hey, if some people find those things important than they're
probably going to like rap music.
| How about doing a few rap sets for us (we get to pick what you do)?
At most concerts that one goes to, even though there's always some wasted
guy in the back of the hall yelling "SKYYNNEERRRD", the artists usually gets
to select what they are going to play.
|>I mean, even in the words of Kris Kross, in their single "Warm it Up", they
|>say:
|>"I rehearse to keep it sharp as a knife, man"
|>Does this mean that they're actually _boasting_ that they practise?????
|
|Kindly do not judge all rap acts by Kris Kross.
Agreed. Kris Kross was a bad choice. That tends to be a common method
of "DISSIN" (hey, I got the lingo down) other peoples music. If someone listens
to a certain type of music, pick the worst artist which fits the genre, say
"you mean like <insert worst song from the work album by a lame artist here>",
and then get ready for the long list of artist playing that genre that shows
how much they do listen to that kind of music.
Dave Walker
>
>Does anyone have the lyrics to Spyros lastest album.
I don't have 'em all, but I think the chorus is
"Here we are now, entertain us"
I think it's about deodorant or abortions or something.
| Dave Walker, Detroit Art Services (DAS) |
| "I don't read, I just guess" |
| marm...@mondo.engin.umich.edu -Happy Mondays, "Wrote For Luck" |
David Trumbull
*CHOMP*
3 cheers for the best r.m.m. thread since whatshisname from caltech declared
all out war on SWM (his term: stiff white men).. Damn, I wish I could remember
his name!
--
Superhigh \ Lookin for that good stuff...
d...@sybase.com / ...better tighten up on your backstroke.
Backstrokin' /
Clayton Glad
>*CHOMP*
>3 cheers for the best r.m.m. thread since whatshisname from caltech declared
>all out war on SWM (his term: stiff white men).. Damn, I wish I could remember
>his name!
Eli Messinger.
-- Clay
"Words butter no parsnips."
-- C.G. Jung
dx
> >*CHOMP*
> >3 cheers for the best r.m.m. thread since whatshisname from caltech declared
> >all out war on SWM (his term: stiff white men).. Damn, I wish I could
> > remember his name!
Clayton Glad...
> Eli Messinger.
As usual, Clayton's been listening to too many Michael Bolton records (how
many is too many? I'd say ONE!). Whatshisname from Cal Tech (and always
write it as two words, it drives the anal retentives at Cal Tech up a wall)
was JONES. I think he used an alias of SMITH at times... alias SMITH and
JONES.
Mark J. Rinehart
> In article <1992Sep19....@Csli.Stanford.EDU> gl...@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Clayton Glad) writes:
> *CHOMP*
> 3 cheers for the best r.m.m. thread since whatshisname from caltech
> declared all out war on SWM (his term: stiff white men).. Damn, I
> wish I could remember his name!
The dork you speak of was named morphy.
Mark
R o d Johnson
>Whatshisname from Cal Tech (and always
>write it as two words, it drives the anal retentives at Cal Tech up a wall)
>was JONES. I think he used an alias of SMITH at times... alias SMITH and
>JONES.
So you're *not* a newbie. . .
Wow.
--
Rod Johnson * r...@caen.engin.umich.edu * (313) 764-3103
"What I do doesn't happen in a warehouse"
--Jim Dickinson
John Fereira
|Whatshisname from Cal Tech (and always
|write it as two words, it drives the anal retentives at Cal Tech up a wall)
|was JONES. I think he used an alias of SMITH at times... alias SMITH and
|JONES.
Actually we could us "Jones" right about now. He had a unique way of
putting things in perspective. SWM stood for "stiff white male".
Ray Shea
>>3 cheers for the best r.m.m. thread since whatshisname from caltech declared
>>all out war on SWM (his term: stiff white men).. Damn, I wish I could remember
>>his name!
>
>Eli Messinger.
Wasn't that the guy who invented Burma Stain signs (along with Shel Talmy)?
dx
> >Eli Messinger.
Ray Shea...
> Wasn't that the guy who invented Burma Stain signs (along with Shel Talmy)?
Have you two been sitting around listening to Rap "music" together, or
something? The Burma Shave signs were invented by a disc jockey at a collage
station in Berkeley. I think he's on Thursday nights. Shel Talmy is a
well-known linguist (also at Berkeley for a time, so maybe that's part of
your confusion). His brother, Len, produced a lot of big band records in
the 40's.
What I want to know, is if this Ray Shea in Texas is any relation to the Ray
Shea that lives in the Bay Area?
Gregory Taylor
>all out war on SWM (his term: stiff white men).. Damn, I wish I could remember
>his name!
Jones Maxime Murphy, and he's sadly missed [by me, anyway]....his funk
pointers were invaluable.
--
I've never had much real control over things. The music of pianos, for example,
is the dead world where I loved the machine of my small freedoms, one of the
crowd in his best clothes despite the weather, the Eastern snow like the
distinct sound of pianos over the airfield. The music lifts and swells.