The non-accented voice
Warren Mee
First take for example: Richard Marx. He has an "American" voice...and when
he sings he sounds exactly the way he talks.....
But now consider:
Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
virtually exempt of their accent?
*George Michael has an English accent, but when he sings
he sounds like an "American".
*Sheena Easton, who has a thick Scottish accent, sounds like an "American"
when she sings.
*Gloria Estefan has a Hispanic/Cuban accent when she speaks in interviews
but when she sings she sounds "American."
Also, take for example, any Southern US singer--with a "southern" accent.
When they sing, they sound "American."
***"American" in this sense, means the plain old-Joe average voice. Not
Bostonian, New Yorkish, Southern Bell-ish, or Valley girlish, etc. The
kind of voice your normally hear on television, etc.
Why don't singers retain their natural accents when singing?
Just a hypothesis---
Does this mean that simple "American" is the derivative of most other
accents? And when the voice is exerted, it's true ("American") roots show...?
Just wonderin'...or maybe stumblin' :)
Warr
Ken Hughes
|>
|>First take for example: Richard Marx. He has an "American" voice...and when
|>he sings he sounds exactly the way he talks.....
|>
|>But now consider:
|>
|>Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
|>virtually exempt of their accent?
|>
|>*George Michael has an English accent, but when he sings
|> he sounds like an "American".
|>
|>
|>Does this mean that simple "American" is the derivative of most other
|>accents? And when the voice is exerted, it's true ("American") roots
show...?
|>
|>Just wonderin'...or maybe stumblin' :)
|>
|>Warr
I think everyone has noticed this effect. I was talking to the vocalist for
a band that sounds "American" on their albums, but I found she definately had
a Southern accent. Actually, this also reminds me of a comment a British
singer once made when posed with a similar question; he said that he had
noticed
the same thing, except that when he heard American singer (or Austrailian or
any other nationality I suppose for that matter) that those singers sounded
like they were British.
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Christine R. Lee
> he sings he sounds exactly the way he talks.....
>
> But now consider:
>
> Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
> virtually exempt of their accent?
>
Get this - there are also some Chinese singers abroad who do not even know
English that sing popular songs (heard in the U.S.) in ENGLISH! I
don't know how they do it!
> Why don't singers retain their natural accents when singing?
I haven't the faintest.
> Just a hypothesis---
>
> Does this mean that simple "American" is the derivative of most other
> accents? And when the voice is exerted, it's true ("American") roots show...?
>
> Just wonderin'...or maybe stumblin' :)
>
> Warr
Has anyone else heard of such a situation - where the singer does not
speak English but can sing in English?!
--Christine Lee
Martin Nike
!
!First take for example: Richard Marx. He has an "American" voice...and when
!he sings he sounds exactly the way he talks.....
!
!But now consider:
!
!Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
!virtually exempt of their accent?
!
!*George Michael has an English accent, but when he sings
! he sounds like an "American".
!
!*Sheena Easton, who has a thick Scottish accent, sounds like an "American"
! when she sings.
!
!*Gloria Estefan has a Hispanic/Cuban accent when she speaks in interviews
! but when she sings she sounds "American."
WHen I sing it doesnt sound like American ...
Just imagine Dave Brock singing off key ....
As for British being foreign ..
Just remember where you came from ... Bloody colonials ! :-)
--
Martin Nike ,Coventry Polytechnic
JANET:cmg...@uk.ac.coventry
INET:cmg996%coventr...@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
The Three Stooges !
Richard Caley
Why don't singers retain their natural accents when singing?
MONEY.
I.e. it's easier to sell singles in the US if you sound American.
Examples of people who don't --
Ian Anderson.
Fish.
Peter Gabriel.
Toyah Willcox.
The Beatles (early)
Half Man Half Biscuit.
Frank Bornemann ( :-))
--
r...@uk.ac.ed.cstr
Loren Petrich
>
>Has anyone else heard of such a situation - where the singer does not
>speak English but can sing in English?!
It's easier than you think. Just learn to sing it
phonetically. One needs no linguistic comprehension for that.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster: lo...@sunlight.llnl.gov
Since this nodename is not widely known, you may have to try:
Frank Breen
>Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
>virtually exempt of their accent?
> [Everyone sounds American]
I'm Australian and everyone (even Americans) sounds Australian to me
when they sing.
Frank Breen
Ralph Brandi
>Has anyone else heard of such a situation - where the singer does not
>speak English but can sing in English?!
It's no big deal. I sing in Yoruba, Shona, Ndbele and Okinawan on a
regular basis. I have no idea what I'm singing, and a native
speaker would probably run away screaming in terror at the mangling
of their language, but I have fun with it. Listen to anything a
couple hundred times and you'll be able to sing it....
Hai sai Oji-san! Hai!
--
Ralph Brandi ra...@mtunq.att.com att!mtunq!ralph
The preceding are not the opinions of AT&T, CDI, or their lackeys.
Anyone who says otherwise is itching for a fight.
Tushar Saxena
John Eisenman
more likely that singing is just an altogether different accent. Don't
you pronounce words differently when singing? Maybe you just think it
sounds American, because that's how people you know sound when they
sing. Maybe the English think that it sounds English when they hear
Americans sing.
Alert Reader
In article <12...@chaph.usc.edu> m...@aludra.usc.edu (Warren Mee) writes:
>
>First take for example: Richard Marx.
Take Richard Marx. Please. *rimshot*
>He has an "American" voice...and when
>he sings he sounds exactly the way he talks.....
>But now consider:
>Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
>virtually exempt of their accent?
[...]
>Why don't singers retain their natural accents when singing?
[...]
>Does this mean that simple "American" is the derivative of most other
>accents? And when the voice is exerted, it's true ("American") roots show...?
Let's take your last question first. Yes, of course "American" is
derivitive of other languages, notably English. But more important
than the derivation is the fact that we in the U.S. set the standard
for pop music. If you really want to rake in the large money, you
have to do well in America. (This isn't strictly true, but if you
make it big here, you make it big on Planet Earth.) So yeah, everybody
sings like us because they want to be liked, and bought, by us.
The Ol' Perfesser
--
Your pal, Marty Stevens + mar...@sco.COM + ...!{uunet,ucscc}!sco!martyst
"It's risky to introduce the supernatural and UFO-ial because these are
essentially proletarian concepts that when explored to any depth are revealed
to be very stupid." --plam...@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Thane E. Plambeck)
Jerome Peirick
>
> Has anyone else heard of such a situation - where the singer does not
> speak English but can sing in English?!
>
> --Christine Lee
Shocking Pink----"Venus"
They were a Nordic group (Sweden?) who sang phonetically.
Pink Lady and Jeff (yes, that's Jeff Altman)
Japanese--Same bit.
Blue Swede---"Hooked on a Feeling" (hooga hooga hooga chaka)
Nordic again.
--
Jerome Peirick | peir...@wums.bitnet | Baseball has the great
Dept. of Cardiology | | advantage over cricket
Wash. U. Med School | | of being sooner ended.
St. Louis, MO 63110 | 314-362-8112 | -George Bernard Shaw
Jeff Benjamin
> speak English but can sing in English?!
Of course. In fact, there are plenty of situations where Americans can
sing in foreign languages they don't know how to speak either. I've
done it myself, singing in choirs in high school and college. It's easy
to learn a song phonetically. I've sung in Latin, French, German,
Italian, Spanish, Russian, and other languages, even though I can speak
none of them.
I think the reason accents disappear while singing is due somewhat to
basic vocal technique: the lengthening of vowels, the way you handle
terminal consonants (especially R's).
If you want to hear someone who *doesn't* lose their accent singing,
though, listen to some Billy Bragg.
-----
Jeff Benjamin {ucbvax,hplabs}!hpfcla!benji
Graphics Technology Division be...@fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
Bruce Rodean
>he sings he sounds exactly the way he talks.....
>
>
>Also, take for example, any Southern US singer--with a "southern" accent.
>When they sing, they sound "American."
>
>***"American" in this sense, means the plain old-Joe average voice. Not
>Bostonian, New Yorkish, Southern Bell-ish, or Valley girlish, etc. The
>kind of voice your normally hear on television, etc.
I think Jim Nabors tops this list. "Well, gawwwwllllleeeeee."
Bruce Rodean
rod...@hpfcla.HP.COM
Karen Pepper
>Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
>virtually exempt of their accent?
>*George Michael has an English accent, but when he sings
> he sounds like an "American".
>*Sheena Easton, who has a thick Scottish accent, sounds like an "American"
> when she sings.
>Why don't singers retain their natural accents when singing?
>Just a hypothesis---
>Does this mean that simple "American" is the derivative of most other
>accents? And when the voice is exerted, it's true ("American") roots show...?
No. They deliberately adopt a American accent. This is partly because
American pop is the basis of all pop internationally, and an
American accent is deemed the "right" accent for singing it.
However, it also has alot to do with the fact that if a singer
wants to sell records in the large, lucrative US market, they have
to try to sound "American". Unfortunately, most Americans are
culturally very xenophobic and won't accept "foreign" accents.
It's not unknown for US distributers to dub American voices over
non-American English-speaking voices in films, for example.
--
__ __ __
|__|__|__| | Karen Pepper
|__|__|__| | Psychology Dept., Wollongong Uni., NSW, Australia
|__|__|__| | e-mail: k...@wolfen.cc.uow.oz.au
Martin-Martin Nike
!Are you guys sure that people sound American when they sing. It seems
!more likely that singing is just an altogether different accent. Don't
!you pronounce words differently when singing? Maybe you just think it
!sounds American, because that's how people you know sound when they
!sing. Maybe the English think that it sounds English when they hear
!Americans sing.
I find that most English bands seem to put on American Accents.
ie,River city people,wishbone ash,Uriah Heep....etc
--
Martin-Martin Nike ,Coventry Polytechnic
JANET:cmg...@uk.ac.coventry
INET:cmg996%coventr...@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
"Who knows where the time goes ?" - Sandy Denny
Hans Huttel
> Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
> virtually exempt of their accent?
[ stuff deleted ]
> *Sheena Easton, who has a thick Scottish accent, sounds like an "American"
> when she sings. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Funny you should say that. When Sheena Easton was back in Glasgow for the first time in 8 years or so for the `Big Day' (an 8-hour open-air concert, part of the Cultural Capital of Europe celebrations) many booed when they heard how thoroughly Americanized she had become ! I don't think anyone in this part of the world would claim that said Ms. Easton has a thick Scottish accent...
(I - and many others - wondered why the district council had invited her over but that is an entirely different question...)
Hans H\"{u}ttel, Office 1603 JANET: ha...@uk.ac.ed.lfcs
Lab. for Foundations of Comp. Sci. UUCP: ..!mcvax!ukc!lfcs!hans
University of Edinburgh ARPA: hans%lfcs.e...@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, SCOTLAND Ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more
Jerome Peirick
> In article <566.02i...@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> chri...@uts.amdahl.com (Christine R. Lee) writes:
>>
>>Has anyone else heard of such a situation - where the singer does not
>>speak English but can sing in English?!
>
> It's easier than you think. Just learn to sing it
> phonetically. One needs no linguistic comprehension for that.
And it's not restricted to English either. Linda Ronstadt recorded
that album of Mexican love songs a few years back, and admitted to not speak-
a word of Spanish. She just made the correct noises come out of her mouth.
Anders Engwall
> In article <566.02i...@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>,
chri...@uts.amdahl.com (Christine R. Lee) writes:
> >
> > Has anyone else heard of such a situation - where the singer does not
> > speak English but can sing in English?!
> >
> > --Christine Lee
> At least three come to mind...
> Shocking Pink----"Venus"
> They were a Nordic group (Sweden?) who sang phonetically.
Dutch, actually.
> Blue Swede---"Hooked on a Feeling" (hooga hooga hooga chaka)
> Nordic again.
Swedish, but I wouldn't bet too much that this was sung phonetically. Some
of us vikings know other languages than our own Tjofaderittan Fem Fingrar
P} Filmj|lken, you know :-)
Actually, there are a few examples of phonetical singing in the reversed
direction, i e American acts singing Swedish lyrics even though they
didn't understand a word of it.
Delta Rhythm Boys cut _Flickorna I Sm}land_ and _I En R|d Liten Stuga_ in
the 1940's (or possibly the early 1950's), and The Osmond Brothers did _Fem Smutsiga Sm} Fingrar_ ca 1963.
/Anders
Phone: +46 8 727 38 93
Fax: +46 8 647 96 44
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"M{nskor alltf|r ofta, det {r mera {n jag t}l" - Traste Lindens Kvintett
patrice a simon
on the subject of american influence in the music world, isn't it
strange the way most "foreign" bands (ie, from non-english speaking
countries) have english names? or do they have a different name in their
country of origin? and why is the 808 State album called _United State 90_,
and have 8 US flags on it? aren't they from England?
"foreign" bands with english names :
urban dance squad - netherlands?
technotronic - belgium
[ten minutes later]
okay, so i can't remember any more right now...
that's all--
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Patrice A. Simon
si...@acsu.buffalo.edu v5907ucd@ubvms
Leo Breebaart
>> > speak English but can sing in English?!
>> Shocking Pink----"Venus"
>> They were a Nordic group (Sweden?) who sang phonetically.
>Dutch, actually.
And, actually, the name was 'Shocking Blue', as I will no doubt be not the
only one to point out.
But why, just because it was by a Dutch group, do you assume it had to be sung
phonetically? I am quite sure it wasn't: we get English in school, you know.
Besides, the song was also *written* by the group itself.
--
Leo Breebaart (leo @ duttnph.tudelft.nl)
Leo Breebaart
> on the subject of american influence in the music world, isn't it
>strange the way most "foreign" bands (ie, from non-english speaking
>countries) have english names? or do they have a different name in their
>country of origin?
No of course it's not strange, silly! It's just Western culture...
Take Holland for instance: of course we have Dutch groups who sing in Dutch,
and have Dutch group names, and some are even quite successful... in Holland.
But 90 % of the popular music we hear via the media is either English or
American, so it is quite obvious that a lot of Dutch musicians try to fit
in with that 90 %, and start singing in English, whether the musical genre
is rap, rock or 'alternative'.
Another aspect is of course that if you want to be successful *outside*
of Holland, you had *better* be making records in a format that is
acceptable to other countries, i.e. in English. It is everyone's
dream to have a hit in the U.S. (primary goal) or in England (secondary
goal).
Finally, I must also add that there are countries (most notably Italy
and France) which are far less English-oriented, and where you see
that the charts are much more filled with native artists.
>"foreign" bands with english names :
>urban dance squad - netherlands?
Golden Earring, The Nits, Vandenberg, Earth & Fire, Shocking Blue, Lois Lane,
The Scene, Fox The Fox, Picture, Supersister, Stars on 45, Herman Brood &
His Wild Romance, The Cats, Pussycat, Cuby & The Blizzards, Tee Set, Sandy
Coast, Dizzy Man's Band, Focus, Long Tall Ernie & The Shakers, Lucifer,
Kayak, The Dolly Dots, Mai Tai, MC Miker G. And DJ Sven, The Harbour Singers,
Printed Matter, The Good Cause, and of course the Dutch Beatles: Do But.
And there are many, many more... :-)
Gregory Taylor
> They were a Nordic group (Sweden?) who sang phonetically.
"(sound of loud buzzer) No, I'm sorry, shocking pink was a *Dutch* band.
The female lead singer is trying her hand at stagecraft after a short
career as a hairdresser, somewhere near Rotterdam [denk ik]."
--
What is poetry?:The medieval frieze, with frieze/Of Boy Scouts from Nagoya?
The snow/That came when we wanted it to snow?/Beautiful images? Trying to
avoid/Ideas, as in this poem? But we/Go back to them as to a wife, leaving
/The mistress we desire? Now they/Will have to believe it as we believe it.
rader
>English that sing popular songs (heard in the U.S.) in ENGLISH! I
>don't know how they do it!
>
>> Why don't singers retain their natural accents when singing?
>
>I haven't the faintest.
>
The human central nervous system uses one system for singing,
and another separate system for speaking. I don't remember the exact
locations (it's been a long time since those Psych classes!), I doubt
a single brain fold is responsible anyway.
This is why many brain-damaged persons (e.g. suffered strokes, head
trauma) can't speak, but they can sing. This phenomenon is utilized
in therapy, teaching people to speak by singing.
So, someone can sing a song in another language phonetically, without
understanding what they sing. The speaking accent doesn't manifest
itself while they sing.
--
ron rader, jr rlr%b...@rti.rti.org = Opinions are my own and do not
| | i gotta six- rlr%bbt$rti.rti.org@CUNYVM = necessarily reflect those of
| | pack, & nothin' to do ...!mcnc!rti!bbt!rlr = BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!)
*** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs ***
Torkel Franzen
>So, someone can sing a song in another language phonetically, without
>understanding what they sing. The speaking accent doesn't manifest
>itself while they sing.
While your information about the central nervous system is no doubt
correct, these last two comments surely have little to do with it.
Being able to sing phonetically doesn't require using another part of
the brain. People can speak phonetically as well. Also, it's not true that
the speaking accent doesn't manifest itself when people sing. It's often
pretty easy to spot accents when people sing in a language other than
their own. It seems to me that one major reason why it's easier to
sing a language phonetically than speak it is that people who sing
don't have to worry over the intonation of sentences, but only of
phonemes.
cosc...@jetson.uh.edu
> In article <12...@chaph.usc.edu> m...@aludra.usc.edu (Warren Mee) wrote:
>
>> Have you noticed that whenever foreigners sing, their singing voice is
>> virtually exempt of their accent?
>
> [ stuff deleted ]
>
>> *Sheena Easton, who has a thick Scottish accent, sounds like an "American"
>> when she sings. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
Scottish when they speak. Imagine that! A band that doesn't try to emulate an
American accent. How novel!
Hans Huttel
Yes, how novel... I used to live in the same part of Edinburgh as one of the Proclaimers, so I should know.
The lines quoted above should not be attributed to me - I was responding to the guy who claimed that Sheena Easton has a `thick Scottish accent' - over here we think she has a thick U.S. American accent.
And let's not forget that RunRig sing in Scots Gaelic (or used to sing in Gaelic, rather). That's about as Scottish as one can get (not that I am particularly fond of RunRig, really).
--