Wakeman, Kaye, & Banks? Could be ...
Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner
to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
Banks: clearly the best, because he is a songwriter and a keyboard player
who experiments with chords sequences and harmony. He also writes
songs, which is how he describes himself.
Wakeman: clearly the most well-known Yes keyboardist, the one time I saw him
playing he had about 1000 keyboards and only managed to play two
at a time... he does a lot of flashy stuff, but some of it
really works -- Roundabout, for example, has some well placed bits
that make the song. I don't think he's primarily a songwriter, although
composer might be a good term.
Kaye: when I saw him (you got it, the Union tour, for the Kurd relief
concert) he had two or three keyboards, and managed to play
up to two at a time. His work on 90125 is great, with well placed
bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
Kaye doesn't seem to be a per-se songwriter, since he is only
co-writer credited on 2 songs on 90125.
So they all have a lot to recommend themselves. Any comments?
Scott
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| mcm...@cs.unca.edu | "Driven lights move randomly, the never ending |
| mcm...@uncavx.unca.edu | show" -- Tony Banks, 1983 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monty
(Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes...
>Recently topics have centered on Tony Banks leaving Yes, and it got me
>to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
Er... I think there's a little problem here. The Banks who played
with Yes was guitarist Peter Banks, not keyboarder Tony Banks.
Peter Banks was on "Yes" and "Time and a Word" before being
replaced by Steve Howe. Tony Kaye was the keyboard player on
both albums. The other Yes keyboard players have been Patrick
Moraz ("Relayer") and Geoff Downes ("Drama"). And Rick Wakeman.
>Kaye: when I saw him (you got it, the Union tour, for the Kurd relief
> concert) he had two or three keyboards, and managed to play
> up to two at a time. His work on 90125 is great, with well placed
> bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
> Kaye doesn't seem to be a per-se songwriter, since he is only
> co-writer credited on 2 songs on 90125.
I happen to feel that Kaye's best work was on "Time and a Word".
I don't know why his 90125/Big Generator stuff is so bland,
probably because Trevor Rabin likes a lot of guitar/bass/drums
and doesn't compose the keyboard parts for his songs??
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
{ | Matthew P. Mason }
{ why me? | SUNY Buffalo Law School }
{ | v026...@ubvms.bitnet }
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
patrick madden
|> Recently topics have centered on Tony Banks leaving Yes, and it got me
|> to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
Probably an innocent mistake, but Tony Banks has never played in Yes.
maybe he is talking about leaving Genesis? As for your ratings of keyboardists
I know that all Genesis fans will say Banks is the best, and all Yes fans will
say that Wakeman is the best. Wakeman wrote a lot of stuff for Yes, and has
over 35 solo albums as well. So unless you don't think he writes "songs,"
he's a songwriter as well. Finally, Tony Kaye is pretty useless. If anyone
saw Yes playing on tour for 90125 or Big Generator, they probably noticed that
the songs originally done by Wakeman didn't sound quite right. The keyboard
parts were just not the same, not as good. On the Union tour, what does Kaye
add? Nothing. With two guitarists, they can now cover all the guitar parts,
and that's useful, but Wakeman can play everything by himself pretty much. I
only remember Kaye doing some dancing stuff with one hand raised in the air
while playing the keys with the other. Anyone can do that. He's got a bad
haircut too.
Alex Harden
->In article <1992Jan28....@rock.concert.net>, mcm...@cs.unca.edu
->(Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes...
->>Kaye: when I saw him (you got it, the Union tour, for the Kurd relief
->> concert) he had two or three keyboards, and managed to play
->> up to two at a time. His work on 90125 is great, with well placed
->> bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
->> Kaye doesn't seem to be a per-se songwriter, since he is only
->> co-writer credited on 2 songs on 90125.
->I happen to feel that Kaye's best work was on "Time and a Word".
->I don't know why his 90125/Big Generator stuff is so bland,
->probably because Trevor Rabin likes a lot of guitar/bass/drums
->and doesn't compose the keyboard parts for his songs??
Actually, Trevor uses a lot of synths in his songs...check out "Can't Look
Away", his 1989 solo album.
The way I have always looked at Wakeman and Kaye is that the former is a
composer/songwriter/damn-great-player, while the latter is more of a
synthesist/mediocre-player. One person not attributed in this article
said that when Kaye plays certain parts of songs that Wakeman recorded with
Yes, they don't sound quite right. IMHO, the reason is because Kaye is
either too lazy to learn the parts, or not skilled enough to play them.
--
Alex Harden \ har...@acsu.buffalo.edu \ v409...@ubvms.bitnet
State University of New York at Buffalo - Computer Science
"I was lined up for glory, but the tickets sold out in advance." - Rush
Victor Kan
Pat> Finally, Tony Kaye is pretty useless.
Pat> If anyone saw Yes playing on tour for 90125 or Big Generator,
Pat> they probably noticed that the songs originally done by Wakeman
Pat> didn't sound quite right. The keyboard parts were just not the
Pat> same, not as good. On the Union tour, what does Kaye add?
Pat> Nothing. With two guitarists, they can now cover all the guitar
Pat> parts, and that's useful, but Wakeman can play everything by
Pat> himself pretty much.
I've often thought this too (i.e. Kaye sucks, Wakeman's awesome), and
for the tours that I've seen (Big Generator and Union), Tony Kaye
really was rather useless on stage.
But after thinking about my favorite Yes songs (most of which have
good keyboard work), half of them were by the Tony Kaye vintage Yes.
I've changed my opinion to be that Kaye has done good studio work, but
isn't really all there on the live stage.
Pat> I only remember Kaye doing some dancing
Pat> stuff with one hand raised in the air while playing the keys with
Pat> the other. Anyone can do that. He's got a bad haircut too.
Indeed, in the Yes mailing list, Notes from the Edge, I commented that
he looked and acted like Richard Simmons during the Union concert I
saw, being mostly useless until they got around to playing Changes.
That's the only time I really noticed that he was playing anything. I
think this was also the only time when he actually had both hands on
the keyboards at the same time.
--
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Mark Allender
> Recently topics have centered on Tony Banks leaving Yes, and it got me
> to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
hmm...maybe he's leaving genesis, but he never played for yes.
> Banks: clearly the best, because he is a songwriter and a keyboard player
> who experiments with chords sequences and harmony. He also writes
> songs, which is how he describes himself.
I would agree about experimenting with chord sequences and harmony, but
I don't think that this would categorize him as the best...
> Wakeman: clearly the most well-known Yes keyboardist, the one time I saw him
> playing he had about 1000 keyboards and only managed to play two
> at a time...
I would hope that he couldn't play more than two at a time with only
two hands.....I believe that the way wakeman operates is to have all
of those keyboards tuned to do different things. I think that I could
make an analogy to Keith Moon from the Who. If anyone ever saw the way
his drums were set up, he would have quite a few of the same sounding toms
all over in different parts of his kit so that he could always reach
what he wanted wherever his hands happened to be.......
> he does a lot of flashy stuff, but some of it
> really works -- Roundabout, for example, has some well placed bits
> that make the song. I don't think he's primarily a songwriter, although
> composer might be a good term.
His flashy stuff is better than simple tony bank, ala genesis, keyboard
type stuff. Any keyboard player can come up with cool sounding chords
and hold the keys down for 1 to 2 seconds at a time. If you've never listen
to any of wakeman's solo albums, you're missing out (IMHO) on some really
great classical type tunes. Wakeman, in my opinion, is astounding and
really deserves a lot of credit (even though he is more than willing to
give a lot of credit to himself.). I just think that he's much, much
better relatively speaking than these other two keyboardists.
>
> Kaye: when I saw him (you got it, the Union tour, for the Kurd relief
> concert) he had two or three keyboards, and managed to play
> up to two at a time.
See my comment above.......
> His work on 90125 is great, with well placed
> bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
I think that kaye is a lot like banks. There are completely different
keyboard styles on the Yes album, and fragile. take your pick. It is
all a matter of taste about what you like I suppose.
--
-Mark Allender
-University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
-Conversation Builder Project
-alle...@cs.uiuc.edu
Monty
(Alex Harden) writes...
>Actually, Trevor uses a lot of synths in his songs...check out "Can't Look
>Away", his 1989 solo album.
Sorry... I meant his Yes songs. But I don't really know, it was a guess.
>The way I have always looked at Wakeman and Kaye is that the former is a
>composer/songwriter/damn-great-player, while the latter is more of a
>synthesist/mediocre-player. One person not attributed in this article
>said that when Kaye plays certain parts of songs that Wakeman recorded with
>Yes, they don't sound quite right. IMHO, the reason is because Kaye is
>either too lazy to learn the parts, or not skilled enough to play them.
I dunno about this one. Both of them, in YesYears, talked about how
they would play on the road stuff the other one did in the studio
and could not figure out what the notes were supposed to be.
For what its worth, I wouldn't care to hear the Fragile
Yes playing "Time and a Word" songs. Maybe Kaye hasn't the
pure ability of Wakeman, but he's no slouch. Some bits on
"Yes" and "Time and a Word" are quite excellent.
U26...@uicvm.uic.edu
>
>Recently topics have centered on Tony Banks leaving Yes, and it got me
>to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
>
>Banks: clearly the best, because he is a songwriter and a keyboard player
> who experiments with chords sequences and harmony. He also writes
> songs, which is how he describes himself.
In other words, this is Mr. McMahan's favorite, whom he often lavishes with
excessive amounts of praise, usually composed of self-important quotes from
Mr. Banks himself, as in this case.
>Wakeman: clearly the most well-known Yes keyboardist, the one time I saw him
> playing he had about 1000 keyboards and only managed to play two
> at a time... he does a lot of flashy stuff, but some of it
> really works -- Roundabout, for example, has some well placed bits
> that make the song. I don't think he's primarily a songwriter,
>although
> composer might be a good term.
Whom Mr. McMahan obviously doesn't know much about, since he mentioned
only Roundabout and didn't mention the few dozen solo albums he has.
>Kaye: when I saw him (you got it, the Union tour, for the Kurd relief
> concert) he had two or three keyboards, and managed to play
> up to two at a time. His work on 90125 is great, with well placed
> bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
> Kaye doesn't seem to be a per-se songwriter, since he is only
> co-writer credited on 2 songs on 90125.
>So they all have a lot to recommend themselves. Any comments?
But Banks is "clearly the best."?
I'm not sure what is meant in the above regarding the difference between a
songwriter and a composer, and why the text seems to imply that songwriting
is better than composing. Also, the reference to Banks' experiments with
chord sequence and harmony is considered very impressive because it is in a
"pop" context, ie. songwriting.
I'm a Genesis fan, as well as being a Yes fan, so I have a few opinions and
biases of my own, which I will now put forward in the wake of Mr. McMahan's
clear truths. Tony Banks' experimental keyboard work is merely the application
of classical (actually, early Romantic) keyboard work (in the early Genesis
albums) and ragtime (in the later Genesis work) to a pop context. The whole
"songwriter" classification that Banks and other Genesis members have used
to explain why they don't write adventurous music anymore doesn't really
mean all that much. The advances of the "progressive" musicians in rock
IMHO is applying techniques from other, more demanding, musical forms. For
instance, Wakeman uses a lot of baroque technique, as well as some of the
musical vocabulary of Romantic composers like Liszt and Prokofiev. My
favorite Yes keyboardist, Patrick Moraz, uses a lot of the vocabulary of
jazz, and sometimes his work reminds me of pianists like Keith Jarrett and
Chick Corea (I'm not saying he's as good as they are, mind you, just that
his work carries their influence in my mind.) When I listen to some
more recent Banks work, like "Me and Sarah Jane" I hear what sounds to
me like ragtime influence. Banks works in a "pop" context, which isn't
a derogatory term, as some might take it. I think "Me and Sarah Jane"
is a great pop song. I just like Patrick Moraz because I like his style
and influences best.
I know Mr. McMahan's opinion is just that, and probably easy to see as
subjective, but I really don't know what he means when he says that Banks
is a "songwriter." I think what he means is that Banks is a "pop songwriter"
and McMahan likes pop songs more than anything else, but that's not what he
said.
** Know about the Pliny the Elder Cabal? Ask anyone for information. **
* Scott Graves * "Death is a hoax; Reincarnation is God's *
* U26...@uicvm.uic.edu * Witness Relocation Program" - Hasad Fahd *
* "I speak for a body * Dodd Salaad, _Popular Metaphysics_ *
* of followers * "Escapetology", 23:17 *
* including, but not limited to, you." *
* * * * * * * * * "In Vino Veritas" -PtE * * * * * * * * *
Norman Humal
>In article <1992Jan28....@rock.concert.net>, mcm...@cs.unca.edu
>(Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes...
>>Recently topics have centered on Tony Banks leaving Yes, and it got me
>>to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
>Er... I think there's a little problem here. The Banks who played
>with Yes was guitarist Peter Banks, not keyboarder Tony Banks.
>Peter Banks was on "Yes" and "Time and a Word" before being
>replaced by Steve Howe. Tony Kaye was the keyboard player on
>both albums. The other Yes keyboard players have been Patrick
>Moraz ("Relayer") and Geoff Downes ("Drama"). And Rick Wakeman.
Speaking of who... Whatever became of Peter Banks? After the Flash
albums and his GREAT solo album with Akkerman and members from Flash
and Genesis (c. '74) he disappeared. Anyone hear of or from him since?
Is he alive? Is he related to Tony Banks?
Also one might add Keith Emerson to the list of great keyboardists
in this genre. I've always felt that he and Wakeman were neck-n-neck
in their sheer abilities. With Moraz not far behind.
I dont agree that Tony Banks is superior to any of these 3 in anyway (ability,
composition or haircut). I love early Genesis but I was always more impressed
with the rhythm section, guitar mix and Gabriel than with Banks keyboards
just one mans opinion though... as the poster that labeled Banks as the
best should have pointed out. Clearly.
--
bar...@ac.dal.ca
> Recently topics have centered on Tony Banks leaving Yes, and it got me
> to wondering how(e) the keyboard players stacked up against each other.
>
> Banks: clearly the best, because he is a songwriter and a keyboard player
> who experiments with chords sequences and harmony. He also writes
> songs, which is how he describes himself.
Tony Banks IS NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN a member of Yes. The group has had
four keyboard players: Kaye, Wakeman, Moraz & Downes. The Union album
featured Kaye and primarily Wakeman.
> Wakeman: clearly the most well-known Yes keyboardist, the one time I saw him
> playing he had about 1000 keyboards and only managed to play two
> at a time... he does a lot of flashy stuff, but some of it
> really works -- Roundabout, for example, has some well placed bits
> that make the song. I don't think he's primarily a songwriter, although
> composer might be a good term.
>
> Kaye: when I saw him (you got it, the Union tour, for the Kurd relief
> concert) he had two or three keyboards, and managed to play
> up to two at a time. His work on 90125 is great, with well placed
> bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
> Kaye doesn't seem to be a per-se songwriter, since he is only
> co-writer credited on 2 songs on 90125.
>
Alex
Craig Burley
look more "fun" than, say, Rick Wakeman.
But at the YesFest last July in Philly, when some of Yes were being pressured
to ad-lib some stuff, Wakeman sat at a synth, and Banks had to help him figure
out how to "configure" it. That having been done, I believe Wakeman did
most of the playing.
Wakeman shows on the "Yessongs" video that he indeed can play more than two
keyboards at once (relatively speaking). Kaye shows on the "9012Live" video
that he occasionally can use both hands at once, primarily when they're
rhythmically "attached" (I have the same "problem" -- I'm no keyboardist, but
when I do play with two hands, they are rhythmically attached, I couldn't
play a fugue to save my life, neither, IMHO, could Kaye, while Wakeman could,
at least at one point, do a tough fugue blindfolded). Also, while Wakeman
does fairly decent live solos, Kaye does not -- what he tries to do always
sounds pretty lame to me, although he was better on the Union-tour concert
I attended than on the 9012Live video.
Personally, I find Pat Moraz to be hands-down the best all-around keyboardist
Yes ever had. Not only has he contributed compositionally and in the studio
to my favorite Yes album, and both his backing and up-front keyboard work
been strong (whereas Kaye probably edges Wakeman in the backing-keyboard
area), but his concert performances and solos beat the other two out
completely. (Can't say much about Downes, since I've heard him only on the
Drama album and never in concert.) Further, while Kaye might understand
synth-setting better than Wakeman, I'm pretty confident Moraz could teach them
both a lot -- certainly his synth settings were consistently more appropriate
to the music at hand than Wakeman's, and more distinctive as well (come on,
can you really hear much difference between Wakeman's and, say, Emerson's
settings?).
And of the various Yes-member solo albums, though I haven't heard all (or even
many) of Wakeman's, I find it hard to believe I'd like any of his better than
_I_ by Moraz.
BTW, I like Tony Banks quite a bit, but he's the keyboard player for a
completely different band -- Genesis. I have pretty much all their albums
on CD like I do Yes. Tony Banks doesn't "flash" as much as Wakeman or Moraz
on the albums -- it wouldn't be as appropriate -- but over the years I've
heard plenty of reason to believe he's entirely capable of it whenever he
wants to do it.
--
James Craig Burley, Software Craftsperson bur...@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Member of the League for Programming Freedom (LPF)
Andrew Studer
>
>His flashy stuff is better than simple tony bank, ala genesis, keyboard
>type stuff. Any keyboard player can come up with cool sounding chords
>and hold the keys down for 1 to 2 seconds at a time. If you've never listen
>to any of wakeman's solo albums, you're missing out (IMHO) on some really
>great classical type tunes. Wakeman, in my opinion, is astounding and
>really deserves a lot of credit (even though he is more than willing to
>give a lot of credit to himself.). I just think that he's much, much
>better relatively speaking than these other two keyboardists.
Yes, well the floodgates have already started to open on this one. I've
underlined the word "simple" because I'm supposing it means "later"
(ie post 1980). Bank's previous work could hardly be described as
"simple".
Yes, Rick's an amazing guy and incredibly prolific, but I'd be hard
pressed to place him ahead of 70's Banks. I think it's also fair to
say that Rick's fingers are faster than Tony's, but there's one or
two other factors worth considering:
Firstly, Banks was probably the central musical figure in 70's Genesis
(I use the term "musical" deliberately, because it eliminates Gabriel,
who was more lyricist/singer than arranger/"player"). If you look on
the credits of the three post Gabriel albums to "Duke", Banks is the
main writer. So he was a more central figure to Genesis than Wakeman
was to Yes (which is really a "guitar" band). Of course solo stuff is
another matter. However I feel that Wakeman is much better at writing
instrumental works than songs, whereas Banks can do both.
Secondly, although he has developed and played around with different
styles, Rick hasn't really changed that much since 1970. He's had a
very consistent (which is not to say repetitious) sort of style. Banks
seems to have consciously redefined himself, so that his 80's "sound"
is very different to his 70's "sound". He seems to have gone through
a new change on "We Can't Dance"- playing chords 90% of the time, with
very stripped down arrangements. Unfortunately, he's not as interesting
anymore.
So who is "better"? Depends what you want. What I'd really like is
for some bolt of lightning to hit Tony Banks so that he forgets
everything after about 1976
>-Mark Allender
Andrew Studer
Stephen Dennison
>Tony Kaye indeed doesn't accomplish a whole lot during a concert except to
>look more "fun" than, say, Rick Wakeman.
>
I dunno... the `banks' of keyboards (sorry, I *had* to use that one) and
the robes made Rick a lot of fun to watch IMHO.
>But at the YesFest last July in Philly, when some of Yes were being pressured
>to ad-lib some stuff, Wakeman sat at a synth, and Banks had to help him figure
>out how to "configure" it. That having been done, I believe Wakeman did
>most of the playing.
Meaning ???? Bach might need some help programming a synth, but I'd bet that
he would really `rip it up' after that. :-)
>
>Wakeman shows on the "Yessongs" video that he indeed can play more than two
>keyboards at once (relatively speaking). Kaye shows on the "9012Live" video
>that he occasionally can use both hands at once, primarily when they're
>rhythmically "attached" (I have the same "problem" -- I'm no keyboardist, but
>when I do play with two hands, they are rhythmically attached, I couldn't
>play a fugue to save my life, neither, IMHO, could Kaye, while Wakeman could,
>at least at one point, do a tough fugue blindfolded). Also, while Wakeman
>does fairly decent live solos, Kaye does not -- what he tries to do always
>sounds pretty lame to me, although he was better on the Union-tour concert
>I attended than on the 9012Live video.
>Personally, I find Pat Moraz to be hands-down the best all-around keyboardist
>Yes ever had.
.. from a technical standpoint, I agree.
Kaye might be less of a technician than Wakeman, but I still found his
taste on The Yes Album to be a large contribution to the greatness of the
songs. Wakeman has both style *and* technique that are pleasing to *my* ear,
but Moraz, *undoubtedly* the best technician of the three, did *nothing*
for my soul, y'know what I mean ?
>Not only has he contributed compositionally and in the studio to my favorite
>Yes album, and both his backing and up-front keyboard work been strong
>(whereas Kaye probably edges Wakeman in the backing-keyboard area), but his
>concert performances and solos beat the other two out completely.
I found most Yes recordings after Wakeman's departure a bit self-indulgant
and inaccessable for my tastes. Perhaps this is why I don't like Moraz much
, though I found his work with the Moody Blues *very* tasty (hope I got
this one right.)
>(Can't say much about Downes, since I've heard him only on the
>Drama album and never in concert.)
His Asia work was nice (That *was* Downes, wasn't it ? :-))
>Further, while Kaye might understand synth-setting better than Wakeman, I'm
>pretty confident Moraz could teach them both a lot -- certainly his synth
>settings were consistently more appropriate to the music at hand than
>Wakeman's,
Agreed...
>and more distinctive as well (come on, can you really hear much difference
>between Wakeman's and, say, Emerson's settings?).
Yup. As far as the distinctive part, Wakeman's synth-usage, probably
*because* he was experimenting and getting it `wrong', was *very* unique
IMHO.
Stephen
Never confuse your dreams with the *things* you want. *Things* are matter
and matter can be neither created nor destroyed. Not so, dreams.
John Chitalia
BEEN a member of Yes.", it's a joke. A while back, someone made an
innocent, yet
very funny, remark that Yes had not been the same since Tony Banks
left.
Scott assumed you all would remember, but I guess it's tough to read and
remember 100+ messages a day on this newsgroup.
RE: Tony Kaye - I agree that on the 90125, BG, and Union, Tony Kaye's
work is about the equivalent of a mediocre session player. Also, his
playing on the tours leaves a lot to be desired. However, I think his
work on the first three Yes albums are very good (esp. Yours is No
Disgrace and No Opportunity Wanted, No Experience Needed... (maybe I
messed up that title)). Maybe, he hasn't practiced as much as one
should have during those long breaks between albums. Sorta reminds me
of someone saying that Nick Mason had trouble playing on Momentary ...
because he hadn't practiced his drumming for a long time.
RE: Rick Wakeman - He was perfect for Yes when he joined. They needed
someone who was technically proficient on keyboards to match Chris and
Steve.
RE: Tony Banks - Genesis fans will support him and Yes, Rick. Those who
like both groups will like both (like me). They were both perfect for
the sound their respective groups made. The reason Banks was perfect
for Genesis is because he was one of the founders and main songwriters.
Gabriel, Rutherford, Phillips, and he were all in sync with the form of
music they wanted to make. Later, Hackett and Collins added with their
inputs.
John Chitalia
Be careful. Otherwise, all those previous posters will flame you for making
that mistake.
JC
doug hammond
>Kaye might be less of a technician than Wakeman, but I still found his
>taste on The Yes Album to be a large contribution to the greatness of the
>songs.
Absolutely. I always preferred Kaye's organ sound to Wakeman's, which was
kind of thin and rinky-dink sounding to me. Kaye may not be able to play
the Wakeman parts, but I never cared for Wakeman's treatment of "Your's is
No Disgrace" or "Starship Trooper" either.
But it's all a matter of taste I suppose. I don't like to try to make
direct comparisons since the music they were playing was quite different.
Whenever Kaye has been in the band, they've been more guitar-oriented, with
him serving as a backup for the most part. When Wakeman was in the band,
the music served as a vehicle to showcase his keyboard talent somewhat. So
it's kind of hard to compare. But, for different reasons, I don't prefer
either one of them "covering" each other. Wakeman didn't seem to have the
sound, Kaye didn't have the technique.
In the same way, there were things about both of them I liked a lot too. Kaye
was a great "organ/piano guy in a guitar band" on The Yes Album. Wakeman
was a really talented keyboardist, who added a lot of different sounds to the
band. I find myself listening to his solo work more than anything he did
with Yes, while I find myself listening to The Yes Album more than any of the
other Yes stuff.
>Wakeman has both style *and* technique that are pleasing to *my* ear,
>but Moraz, *undoubtedly* the best technician of the three, did *nothing*
>for my soul, y'know what I mean ?
Moraz always struck me as a garden-variety jazz-fusion keyboardist. He had
the technique, the variety of sounds & textures, -and- some improvising
capability. But you're right, there's nothing about him that really
jumped out and grabbed me.
Doug
Miss. Carolyn A. Mayr (CADIG STAFF) <carolyn@usna.navy.mil>
> > bits that complement the music but don't interfere with it.
>
> I think that kaye is a lot like banks. There are completely different
> keyboard styles on the Yes album, and fragile. take your pick. It is
> all a matter of taste about what you like I suppose.
>
> --
> -Mark Allender
> -University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
> -Conversation Builder Project
> -alle...@cs.uiuc.edu
I saw 90125 at the Capital Center in Maryland and I thought Tony Kaye was
alot of flash. During a Keith Emerson interview, Keith spilled the
beans ("Oops, I guess I shouldn't have said that") by accident when he
revealed that during the 90125 tour Tony Kaye had a "hidden" keyboardist
under the stage playing along with him during the show. As a
musician, I am appalled that the hidden keyboardist didn't even get
any credit. I lost alot of respect for Tony Kaye when I heard about it.
When I saw Rick Wakeman during the last tour, Rick was great. IMHO, Tony
is not as talented as Rick Wakeman. Oh yea, regarding Tony Banks: I've seen
Tony a number of times and have all his solo/Genesis albums. He is a talented
musician as well as songwriter/lyricist.
Carolyn Mayr
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John Fereira
>I saw 90125 at the Capital Center in Maryland and I thought Tony Kaye was
>alot of flash. During a Keith Emerson interview, Keith spilled the
I'm glad someone finally mentioned Keith Emerson as I consider him to be
better than Wakeman, Kaye, or Banks. So who do others consider to be the
"best" *rock* keyboardist.
--
+=============================================================================+
| John Fereira "Ask me about my vow of silence" |
| jo...@auspex.com |
+=============================================================================+
David L. Campbell
In article <30JAN199...@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> afd...@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Stephen Dennison) writes:
>Tony Kaye indeed doesn't accomplish a whole lot during a concert except to
>look more "fun" than, say, Rick Wakeman.
>
I dunno... the `banks' of keyboards (sorry, I *had* to use that one) and
the robes made Rick a lot of fun to watch IMHO.
Don't be fooled by Kaye's two-keyboard setup. Those are just his
controllers -- he as a couple of huge racks full of sound modules
that are driven by the two keyboards. Keyboard magazine had a YES
issue a few months ago that detailed Kaye and Wakeman's rigs. Wakeman
prefers to have lot's of keyboards on stage -- both for performance
and show reasons. Kaye is a bit more modern, preferring to drive
several rack mounted sound modules (just a synth, less the keyboard)
with a couple of sophisticated keyboard controllers. The fact that
Kaye doesn't use several keyboards doesn't mean much. He can split
a keyboard among several sound modules and play several different
parts on a single keyboard, using say, the upper half for one sound
and the lower half for another. Of course, don't interpret this to
mean that either player is better than the other -- I just wanted to
clear up a technical point. In any case, the amount of equipment one
has is hardly an indication of his/her talent...
David.
--
+----==== opinions expressed do not represent those of my employer ====----+
| David L. Campbell, IBM PSP Austin | "After all, he was the walrus. |
| INET: dcam...@ajones.austin.ibm.com | I could be the walrus too." |
| IBM TR: dcam...@timshel.austin.ibm.com | FBDO |
SUBLIMINAL FRANK
They both have styles of their own which contribute to the band
SUBLIMINAL FRANK
about Miracle of Life from Union. Trevor Rabin always has his songs completed
before he brings them to the Yes table. He plays keyboard and many other
instruments himself, so why neglect them in Yes, which contains more than able
keyboard players? I don't think so.
sto...@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Actually, the quick keyboard part in "Miracle of Life" is sequenced.
Listen closely, and you ought to be able to tell that it is a repeating
loop that is far too quick and accurate even for Wakeman. I seriously
doubt that either Rabin or Kaye could pull that part off. The rest
isn't all that impressive although I do like the song quite a bit.
My own feelings about Kaye are that he has done some interesting work. He
is good for the new Yes because he doesn't compete with Wakeman for space
but fattens up their sound quite a bit. For those who think Wakeman is
a cold technocrat, check out his soloing on the new live version of
"Owner of a Lonely Heart" (only available on bootlegs at this time).
It encompasses his technique in an improvisation that literally blew my
mind during the show. I always thought he was more of a showman than
Kaye because he's always playing clever variations on his material and
always makes eye contact and smiles at the other members of the band.
It gives you a good feeling about what's going on.
Ross Storey