Beautiful South still banned by HMV?
Mary Lacroix
carry "Miaow" by The Beautiful South because the cover was too similar to
their logo. I went down to my local outlet, where I had seen the record
on sale just days before, and found out that they had indeed removed it
(although the current CD-single "Good as Gold" was still available, as
were the previous releases).
Of course HMV has the right to stock whatever records they wish, and
at least they haven't attempted anything as stupid as a lawsuit over
the cover, but I think they've really blown it here. Quick hint for
the forgetful: the HMV logo shows a white dog with black ears listening
to a gramophone. The cover of the Beautiful South record shows an audience
full of dogs (mostly white dogs with black ears, but also a few other breeds)
listening to a gramophone on a concert stage. I'd say it was a cheeky
allusion to the HMV logo, but certainly nothing that would damage the
corporation's image, compromise the integrity of their copyright,
or whatever other reason they may give for pulling this record.
This means that Go! Discs will have to quickly pull together another
cover if they want to sell this record through HMV. Has anyone heard
if this has been done yet?
One more reason I'm glad I picked up the album at the Record Peddlar
on Yonge Street even before the ban (the music papers are cheaper
there, too).
David Gibbs
: I heard last week that HMV (the mega record chain) had decided not to
: carry "Miaow" by The Beautiful South because the cover was too similar to
: their logo. I went down to my local outlet, where I had seen the record
: on sale just days before, and found out that they had indeed removed it
: (although the current CD-single "Good as Gold" was still available, as
: were the previous releases).
In my local HMV there is a notice in the CD racks where The Beautiful South
should be saying that they're not stocking it. Which is kinda funny given
that this week's Radio Times has a full page colour advert advertising
HMV's albums of the month, one of which is ...
--
David Gibbs
Richard W Rackham
I bought my copy from HMV on the day of release. They even had a special offer
on it.
HMV knew about the artwork prior to it's release - they were promoting the
album in their information pamphlets, and their stores had large posters
advertising the album before it's release.
HMV are shooting themselves in the foot. They cannot sue the Beautiful South,
as the cover doesn't use their trademark (it just has a lot of dogs listening
to a gramaphone - note that not all the dogs are like Nipper). Go Discs are
not going to change the artwork for one record chain (they had to change the
artwork for 'Welcome to the Beautiful South' as numerous record stores
complained of the picture of a woman with a gun in her mouth). If people want
to buy 'Miaow', then they could always go to another record store.
Richard (cs9...@brunel.ac.uk)
Mary Lacroix
Richard W Rackham <cs9...@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:
>: mlac...@tuzo.erin (Mary Lacroix) writes:
>: : I heard last week that HMV (the mega record chain) had decided not to
>: : carry "Miaow" by The Beautiful South because the cover was too similar to
>: : their logo. I went down to my local outlet, where I had seen the record
>: : on sale just days before, and found out that they had indeed removed it
>: : (although the current CD-single "Good as Gold" was still available, as
>: : were the previous releases).
>
offer on it.
>
>HMV knew about the artwork prior to it's release - they were promoting the
>album in their information pamphlets, and their stores had large posters
>advertising the album before it's release.
>
>HMV are shooting themselves in the foot. They cannot sue the Beautiful South,
>as the cover doesn't use their trademark (it just has a lot of dogs listening
>to a gramaphone - note that not all the dogs are like Nipper). Go Discs are
>not going to change the artwork for one record chain (they had to change the
>artwork for 'Welcome to the Beautiful South' as numerous record stores
>complained of the picture of a woman with a gun in her mouth). If people want
>to buy 'Miaow', then they could always go to another record store.
I doubt that Go! Discs will change the artwork for just one store, but
I read in a local newspaper a couple of weeks ago that a representative
of the Canadian distributor PolyGram said that a new cover was being
being prepared and that all the old copies would be withdrawn (can you say
"collector's item"?). It was even suggested that the controversy may have been
deliberately incited by the group; as you have pointed out, they have
released provocative covers before. I must admit, it is puzzling why
HMV would seem to change their collective corporate mind so quickly re
the image.
Oh, well -- great album anyway, isn't it?
And the hidden jukebox plays us a song
Everyone should sing along
With a message that'll ring and ring
These are the words that we sing
[err, sorry ... these words omitted from final release]
Michael J. Corrigan
many of the phonograph records in the US had this logo on it - the logo
of RCA Victor. It is quite a historical logo - I associate it with old
records from the 1940s.
-mike
In article <Cp8IC...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>,
Mary Lacroix <mlac...@tuzo.erin> wrote:
:I heard last week that HMV (the mega record chain) had decided not to
:carry "Miaow" by The Beautiful South because the cover was too similar to
:their logo... Quick hint for the forgetful: the HMV logo shows a white dog
Joseph M. Geigel
In article <2r4bik$g...@network.ucsd.edu>,
Michael J. Corrigan <corr...@weber.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>There's a prior instance of this or a *very* similar logo - at one time
>many of the phonograph records in the US had this logo on it - the logo
>of RCA Victor. It is quite a historical logo - I associate it with old
>records from the 1940s.
>
Actually, when RCA was bought out by GE in the mid 80s, BMG
aquired RCA Records, and thus the RCA Victor logo...so it's
no accident that the logos are the same.
It funny how many RCA products are still in production even
though RCA as a company no longer exists!
--
-- jogle
gei...@seasva.gwu.edu
David A. Pearlman
)
)In article <2r4bik$g...@network.ucsd.edu>,
)Michael J. Corrigan <corr...@weber.ucsd.edu> wrote:
)>There's a prior instance of this or a *very* similar logo - at one time
)>many of the phonograph records in the US had this logo on it - the logo
)>of RCA Victor. It is quite a historical logo - I associate it with old
)>records from the 1940s.
)>
)
) Actually, when RCA was bought out by GE in the mid 80s, BMG
) aquired RCA Records, and thus the RCA Victor logo...so it's
) no accident that the logos are the same.
)
) It funny how many RCA products are still in production even
) though RCA as a company no longer exists!
I believe that GE retains ownership of the "Nipper" (dog at gramophone)
trademark in the US. It is used on some RCA product through license
from GE.
GE sold the RCA consumer electronics division to the French congromerate
Thompson Electronics. Thompson actually cheapened most of the line,
and those who look will find that many of the Thompson-era RCA appliances
are made in (lower-cost producer) Korea, rather than Japan (I don't believe
any are made in the US anymore).
dap
--
David A. Pearlman
Vertex Pharmaceuticals Inc. email: d...@vpharm.com
40 Allston St.
Cambridge, MA 02139-4211 "It's not just an adventure , it's a job..."
Joseph M. Geigel
David A. Pearlman <d...@portal.vpharm.com> wrote:
>) Actually, when RCA was bought out by GE in the mid 80s, BMG
>) aquired RCA Records, and thus the RCA Victor logo...so it's
>) no accident that the logos are the same.
>)
>) It funny how many RCA products are still in production even
>) though RCA as a company no longer exists!
>
>I believe that GE retains ownership of the "Nipper" (dog at gramophone)
>trademark in the US. It is used on some RCA product through license
>from GE.
>
As I remember, in the case of BMG, the "right to use" Nipper was part
of the purchase agreement of RCA Records. Although, it may be true that
GE still "owns" this trademark.
>GE sold the RCA consumer electronics division to the French congromerate
>Thompson Electronics. Thompson actually cheapened most of the line,
>and those who look will find that many of the Thompson-era RCA appliances
>are made in (lower-cost producer) Korea, rather than Japan (I don't believe
>any are made in the US anymore).
Funny, but I'm hard pressed to think of any brand of high quality
audio components that is still made in the U.S.
--
-- jogle
gei...@seasva.gwu.edu
Bruno Fernandes
Joseph M. Geigel <gei...@seas.gwu.edu> wrote:
> Funny, but I'm hard pressed to think of any brand of high quality
> audio components that is still made in the U.S.
Head into rec.audio to get whipped into shape then.
Now more along the thread..... I see all this discussion about RCA, blah
blah... HMV is an RCA company or owned by the company that holds all the
RCA trademarks, etc. That's why The Beautiful South's album is banned
there. It's a shameless ban and everyone should complain about it. Each
time you visit an HMV ask for the album "Meaow" by the Beautiful South.
RCA could not even take the band to court on a trademark infingement.
There is no case. The trademark is not copied at all - anyone who's seen
and inspected the album could tell you that. There is only a borrowed
Idea or Theme. And, you cannot copyright an idea. The album artwork
contains a phonograph and various dogs. Many of those dogs look similar
to the dog on the RCA logo and the phonograph looks similar as well. The
context is quite different and so is the artwork. It's a PARODY. If I
were the Beautiful South, I'd take a little time out before the soccer
matches begin in the US (World Cup) and take HMV to court (i'm sure a
good lawyer could come up with a case).
Go out and buy the album and on your next visit to HMV tell them about
their lost sale.
Bruno.
--
"Also believe that peanut butter | The ideas expressed may very well be my
and bacon have been neglected as | own.
food groups, particularly when |
eaten together." - D. Cooper | e0f1...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca
Mary Lacroix
>HMV is an RCA company or owned by the company that holds all the
>RCA trademarks, etc. That's why The Beautiful South's album is banned
>there. It's a shameless ban and everyone should complain about it. Each
>time you visit an HMV ask for the album "Meaow" by the Beautiful South.
I must confess that I have done this at a local outlet. Response: "Duhh.
I guess we're out of stock."
>RCA could not even take the band to court on a trademark infingement.
>There is no case. The trademark is not copied at all - anyone who's seen
>and inspected the album could tell you that. There is only a borrowed
>Idea or Theme. And, you cannot copyright an idea. The album artwork
>contains a phonograph and various dogs. Many of those dogs look similar
>to the dog on the RCA logo and the phonograph looks similar as well. The
>context is quite different and so is the artwork. It's a PARODY. If I
>were the Beautiful South, I'd take a little time out before the soccer
>matches begin in the US (World Cup) and take HMV to court (i'm sure a
>good lawyer could come up with a case).
I agree that there is no trademark or copyright infringement here; HMV
realizes this as well which is why they haven't been stupid enough to sue.
But I doubt that the band will go through the time and expense of a court case.
Yeah, HMV is behaving badly and limiting the band's access to the market,
but they are within their rights to stock whatever records they want. They're
huge, but they're not a monopoly, and the record is available at many
other stores.
Besides, look at all the free publicity the band has received over this --
e.g. how many people in this group had even heard of The Beautiful South
before I posted my original complaint?
>Go out and buy the album and on your next visit to HMV tell them about
>their lost sale.
Bruno, Bruno, Bruno -- that's no way to persuade people.
Don't buy the album just to annoy HMV -- buy it because it's the best
album yet from the group. THEN tell HMV how they just lost your
money not only on that sale, but on many future sales because you'll have
nothing to do with humourless, close-minded, anal-retentive corporate
dinosaurs. Ummm, you better put that in writing to the head office; I
wouldn't rely on staff to pass on that message accurately.
Mary.
"Don't know what I'm doing here
I'll carry on regardless
Got enough money for one more beer
I'll carry on regardless ...
I want my love, my joy, my laugh, my smile, my needs
Not in the star signs
Or the palm that she reads
I want my sun-drenched, wind-swept Ingrid Bergman kiss
Not in the next life
I want it in this
I want it in this"
The Dominator
> Go out and buy the album and on your next visit to HMV tell them about
> their lost sale.
>
> Bruno.
Surely you'd be better off writing to the MD of HMV.
If you just said this to the guy/girl behind the counter you'd most likely
find that they couldn't give a shit.
Dominator
--
.____________________________________________________________________________.
| |^^^^~ --------- |^^^^^~ | McClane The Dominator presents : |
| | | | | | | |
| | | | |_____; | Dominic Robinson |
| | | \ | | \ | in his original widescreen ratio |
| !____; \__; | \ | mcc...@sound.demon.co.uk |
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| |
| "It's not the winning that's important Paul... |
| ...it's the look on your face when you lose!" |
| |
| "You know after seven series, I still haven't got used to the experience." |
| |
| Ian Hislop and Paul Merton trade insults, |
| Have I Got News For You, 29/4/94 (date of broadcast) |
!****************************************************************************!
Bruno Fernandes
Mary Lacroix <mlac...@tuzo.erin> wrote:
>Bruno Fernandes <e0f1...@tuzo.erin> wrote:
>>Go out and buy the album and on your next visit to HMV tell them about
>>their lost sale.
>
>Bruno, Bruno, Bruno -- that's no way to persuade people.
>
>Don't buy the album just to annoy HMV -- buy it because it's the best
>album yet from the group. THEN tell HMV how they just lost your
>money not only on that sale, but on many future sales because you'll have
>nothing to do with humourless, close-minded, anal-retentive corporate
>dinosaurs. Ummm, you better put that in writing to the head office; I
>wouldn't rely on staff to pass on that message accurately.
You misunderstood. Of course I meant buying the album for the music.
They're a great band. Always have been. Even since their beginnings in
The Housemartins. I don't have the new album yet - simply because I've
had so much to buy lately.
I don't know about it being their best album though. I've only listened
to the entire thing once but have heard a few of the singles multiple
times. I guess I'll have to let it grow on me. After the first listen I
find that I really miss Brianna's vocals though.
>Mary.
Joseph M. Geigel
>album yet from the group. THEN tell HMV how they just lost your
>money not only on that sale, but on many future sales because you'll have
>nothing to do with humourless, close-minded, anal-retentive corporate
>dinosaurs. Ummm, you better put that in writing to the head office; I
>wouldn't rely on staff to pass on that message accurately.
>
Getting back to the matter of the music, how does the new album
compare to their last? And what's the deal with an American Release?
How come the album is only available as an import?
Inquiring minds want to know.
--
-- jogle
gei...@seasva.gwu.edu
Mary Lacroix
> compare to their last? And what's the deal with an American Release?
> How come the album is only available as an import?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
It took a couple of listens for this one to really grow on me. My first
impression was that it lacked classic pop singles like "Old red eyes is back"
and "We are each other", and that the songs sounded rather similar to each
other. But I've grown to really like it -- all the songs, with the possible
exception of "Poppy", I would rate as at least 8/10, versus their rather
more uneven earlier albums. Best tracks include "Tattoo", "Good as gold",
and "Hooligans don't fall in love." There are some subtle seventies style
touches throughout (e.g. the "Rocky Horror" style strings on "Tattoo",
some lyrical and vocal phrasings reminiscent of early Elton John on
"Especially for you"), but I think these are noticeable only to geezers
like me who can remember that decade with wary affection -- there's no
Lenny Kravitz style "Hey ma -- I'm being groovy" flourishes, thank heavens.
There are some sound changes -- Brianna Corrigan has left the group
(permanently? indefinitely? Paul Heaton indicated in a recent interview
that he was hopeful that she would return) and female vocals are handled
by Jacqueline Abbott. I find her strong, husky alto more consistently
pleasing than Brianna's soprano, reaching neither the vocal peaks ("Have
you ever been away?") nor the valleys ("A little time") of the
latter. I've heard that Brianna left because of "creative differences"; she
always had a problem with the lyrical content of some songs (e.g. she would
leave the stage when the band performed "36D" live). The last straw was
"Mini-Correct"; Paul reports that she was unhappy with the return of
yet more woman-as-victim songs to their repertoire.
(My $.02 on the whole issue as a woman and a fan: "36D" is a glorious
thing to listen to, but I've always found its lyrics to be snide,
condescending, and overwrought re the model's responsibility for turning
men into slavering idiots. I think Paul was well-meaning on this one but he
missed the mark. "Mini-Correct" is another one of those male-female call
and response songs in which the woman is angry and hurt re the man's
over-the-top piggish behaviour; he is obviously cast as an unsympathetic
character, but I can see why Brianna may have been highly reluctant not
just to record the song but to perform it repeatedly on tour).
All male lead vocals are handled by Paul; Dave Hemingway is credited with
vocals but not drums on the liner notes, so he's relegated to backing only.
I've heard that Dave was supposed to handle even more of the vocals than he
did on the last album this time out, but Paul's lyrics turned out to be
so personal that Dave was basically shut out.
Re American distribution: doesn't Go! Discs usually use Elektra in the
U.S.? (It's PolyGram up here). They've never really broken in the U.S.,
so I don't know if distribution will be delayed until they're ready to
tour (probably after the World Cup, as Bruno has suggested in an earlier
posting), or if they will be distributed at all.
Regards,
Mary.
(Despite all appearances, I'm not on retainer from Go! Discs -- not that I'd
say no to any reasonable offer!)
Mary Lacroix
take note that there will be a half hour Spotlight on The Beautiful South
at 7:30 PM and 11:30 PM Wednesday, May 25 (yep, that's today) and 11:30 AM
Thursday, May 26. Various videos and interview segments will be featured
between copious commerical breaks. (All times Eastern).
Regards,
Mary.
Christian Boellert,
>In article <2rql34$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
>Joseph M. Geigel <gei...@seas.gwu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Getting back to the matter of the music, how does the new album
>> compare to their last? And what's the deal with an American Release?
>> How come the album is only available as an import?
>>
>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>It took a couple of listens for this one to really grow on me. My first
So here's my 2c. I really like most of the stuff by the Housemartins and
the BS. BUT this record is their weakest release yet. I don't like a lot of the
songs, and I have a feeling that they tried to be too serious this time. There
is no song like 36D or stuff like this. I always enjoyed the music with the
sometimes really great lyrics. Some of the lyrics are nice on the new one, but
most of the music is not of their usual quality. I am not pleased with this one
and will sell it soon.
I was at their Denver gig two years ago, great concert, but don't remember
Brianna leaving the stage during 36D.
Christian
--
Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell it by the way I walk
Christian Boellert, SNI, BU POS Systems Software Factory Berlin
USA: boelle...@sni-usa.com, Europe: boelle...@sni.de,
Compuserve: 100064,650 Tel: +49 (030) 4673 2944, Fax: -2915