HTRF- DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.
Andrew Benke
and myself. DO NOT USE THEM. USE JUNO OR REPLAY before these
people!!!!!!!
Dear Lora
I have read your terms and it says "we will always try and inform you
if an item is not in stock at the time of ordering". The fact is you
didn't otherwise, I would have cancelled the order. At no time when I
authorised the sale did you tell me that 2 items were not available.
Please show me how you did this at the time I ordered?
You sent me a message 2 days after I ordered saying that you could not
fill the entire order and sent my single record anyway!
My issue which I have said a number of times before is that I am
slugged with an exorbitant cost per record (AUD $39 for one record)
when if I got what I ordered would have been about $20 per record. You
then try and cover yourself by offering back orders sent to me for
free??? I am not going to accept that, for you may never get those
records again and I still have paid for my higher than usual cost per
record.
I also never said that you charge me for items you do not have in! You
must have misinterpreted me or misunderstood me.
Do not accuse me on slander. Many more people have said far worse
things which I have now found out after the fact. You do not address
issues which I have raised with you consistently and you have not
commented on the complaint below from one of your many irate
customers.
I will exercise those options I have mentioned before which will have
a far greater effect on your business than it will have for me. Type
"HTFR" in google and look 5 listings down. I do not want to resort to
this action but I will unless you work with me in finding a solution.
Again, please find a solution. This letter is written without
prejudice.
Sincerely
Andrew Benke
----- Original Message -----
From: Lora Nash
To: Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group)
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Without Prejudice
Hi Andrew,
In your last email your point was that we charge your card for items
we do not have incase we get them in. Which we do not we never charge
for out of stock items.
There is no solution to items being out of stock,
You would be fully aware of what happens to your order if read the
terms when placing your order. Which you obviously did not.
We as a company do not inform you if anything is out of stock before
we ship we process over 1000 orders per day this would seriously delay
our orders and we do not operate in that way.
We clearly state this in the terms which you agree to. This is how we
work. The office of fair trading will read our terms and see that we
have acted by the book. We have not charge you for anything we do not
have, we have not acted in any way which differs to what we state
online.
The only error here is that you have not read or our terms.
Any slander against HTFR will be taken seriously. We have a very close
relationship with all worldwide Magazines and all other record stores!
As you do not agree to our terms and conditions it is best that you do
not place orders with us I have closed your account.
Regards
Lora Nash
Office Manager
Hard To Find Records
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:21:25 +1000, Andrew Benke \(Lime Soda Group\)
wrote:
> Lora
>
> You obviously do not understand my point.
>
> I DO NOT CARE TO HAVE ITEMS SENT FOR FREE!!!!!!
>
> I DID NOT ORDER 1 RECORD I ORDERED 3 RECORDS. YOU SENT ME 1 RECORD.
> I SHOULD BE INFORMED BEFORE YOU SEND ORDERS PART FILLED OR AT THE
> TIME OF ORDERING. I WAS INFORMED AFTER YOU SENT THEM.
>
> I ask again. How can you help me with this problem. If you fail to
> help me I will do the following.
>
>
> Never shop at your sight again
> Tell my friends of the bad experience I had Post this entire email
> in google and yahoo newsproups Add comment to other websites with
> people who have had bad experiences with you I will inform other
> record web based companies of this experience I will also write to
> the Office of Fair Trade and make a formal complaint Instead of
> arguing you should be focusing on a solution. This email is written
> without prejudice.
> Regards
> Andrew Benke
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lora Nash
> To: Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group)
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Why is MR130049 in stock?
>
>
> Hi
>
>
> You do not seem to have understood my emails.
>
>
> I must stress that you are incorrect we DO NOT charge for ANY
> records we do not have in stock at all ever!
>
>
> We only charge for what is in stock at the time of shipping making
> NO money at all from out of stock items. I have clearly explained
> this to you several times now.
>
>
> I have also explained that it would be much better for us if we
> DID have the items as we could then make more money because we do
> not charge for out of stock items.
>
>
> Our fill rate on gemm is 0% because we set everything to back
> order on the gemm website, this is clearly stated on there.
>
>
> I really do not think you have read the terms and conditions
> otherwise you would fully understand how we work.
>
>
> http://www.htfr.com/terms/.
>
>
> This is the way our company works, always has and always will.
>
>
> I have explained all I can about how we work, there is no point in
> mailing back and fourth when I have already told you everything
> and you still think we charge for items out of stock when we
> clearly do not.
>
>
> If you need any more information again please read the terms or my
> previous emails.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Lora Nash
>
>
> Office Manager
>
>
> Hard To Find Records
>
>
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:29:13 +1000, Andrew Benke \(Lime Soda
> Group\) wrote:
>
>> Hi Lora I to have ordered from many internet stores and I have
>> not had this problem ever before. When I look at your
>> performance on Gemm.com I can see why. Your real time
>> fulfilment rate is shocking. I think it is one of the lowest I
>> have seen. "449 of 449 items ordered in past 180 days were not
>> available". Please see a recent comment below I found on google.
>>
>>
>> From: John (fearo...@aol.com.au.nz) Subject: Hard To Find
>> Records are a fucking shambles!!!
>>
>>
>> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> Original FormatNewsgroups: alt.music.makers.dj
>> Date: 2002-11-25 06:55:51 PST I strongly advise any DJ not to
>> use HTFR.com. These people couldn't run a ****** race or manage
>> a **** on. Within the last 7 weeks they have managed to
>> completely **** up 2 of my orders totally £100. I go onto the
>> website, order records and then I'm told the order is being
>> processed. A week later they send me an email telling me that
>> 2/3 of the items that I have ordered are not in stock and they
>> send me the remaining 1/3. Bad customer relations if you ask
>> me. I used to sing their name from the rooftops and order a lot
>> of gear from them. Nice to know that they care. ****** ASSHOLES!
>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
>>
>>
>> Does this ring a bell. Look up HTFR in newsgroups under google
>> and you'll see a ton more! There are other complaints on Gemm
>> which I will not go into.
>>
>> You advertise stock that you clearly do not have, charge the
>> customer to get the money in (totally unethical) then in the
>> hope that stock will come in, send it to them in future. That
>> is totally unacceptable. I myself own a large import company
>> in Australia and for me to do what you do is unequitable and
>> bad business. Again I stress that you cannot send out a partial
>> order unless you have consent of your customer. You make clear
>> representation that an item is in stock and it is on this
>> representation that (I) they place an order. I do not care about
>> items being sent out at no extra cost. I should have been told
>> that the order was not complete and on this basis I should have
>> been able to make the decision. Your telling me that I have to
>> wear the high shipping cost in the hope that you MIGHT get the
>> stock in, come on?
>> Again please find a solution.
>> Regards
>> Andrew
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Lora Nash
>> To: Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group)
>> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: Why is MR130049 in stock?
>>
>>
>> HI
>>
>>
>> If you had not cancelled your backorders they would have been
>> sent out when found at NO extra cost. You would have been
>> charged the exact same amount as if the order was all shipped
>> together.
>>
>>
>> We do not charge you any extra money at all if we don't ship
>> all the items together. In fact we lose money as we have to
>> pay the full shipping costs for each back ordered item.
>>
>>
>> We do not charge our customers for out of stock items so we are
>> not making any money from you or anyone by advertising stock
>> we do not have (that has sold out). We can advertise 1 record
>> and get 20 + orders for it within 2 minutes, we can only sell
>> it to the first person who ordered it.
>>
>>
>> If we could we would have every record for every person and we
>> would all be very rich, unfortunately as I have previously
>> explained items sell out very quickly.
>>
>>
>> I have ordered from many many internet stores, records, dvds,
>> clothes etc. Often I get an email telling me one of the items
>> is out of stock, it is just the way mail order works, items
>> sell out. Again this is why we fully explain in the terms what
>> happens to your order. This is also why we try to find the
>> item and send it with NO additional shipping charges at a cost
>> to ourselves not the customer.
>>
>>
>> You have cancelled the records you ordered.
>>
>>
>> Again I will direct you to our terms. Items will always sell
>> out. If you order again the same thing may happen but if you
>> allow us to get the back orders in your will receive your
>> records.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Lora Nash
>>
>>
>> Office Manager
>>
>>
>> Hard To Find Records
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:16:27 +1000, Andrew Benke \(Lime Soda
>> Group\) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> These are the facts.
>>>
>>>
>>> When I ordered MR130049 it did not say "order me a copy" nor
>>> "add to wishlist" It had a price of 8 pounds next to it. I
>>> clicked it (8 pounds sign)and it added this product to my
>>> shopping cart. To save on shipping costs it bought two more
>>> products. At no time did I know this was a sought after
>>> item. How am I meant to? It says it is instock? Wouldn't
>>> you check against your previous orders to see if someone
>>> else has ordered it before me and satisfy their request
>>> before stating that it is available to sell over your
>>> online store? I'm sorry but I do not know any stores that
>>> advertise something for sale then as the customer is buying
>>> the product, tell them that someone else had ordered that
>>> before and thus it is not yours to buy??? I have just
>>> checked your website and it says MR130049 is in stock at
>>> 8 pounds??? If I click it, it adds it to my cart. Are you
>>> saying that this record was unavailable when I ordered it
>>> and is now coincidently available again or that your website
>>> is inaccurate and in fact it is not in stock or someone
>>> else actually has ordered it?? Can you see this
>>> frustration. I must not be the only customer having this
>>> problem. Again, how do you explain this to be now in stock.
>>> This is very misleading to your customers. I am not looking
>>> for any refund nor any freebies you may think I am looking
>>> for. All I want is my records that I ordered. Again how do
>>> you plan to fix this problem?
>>> Andrew Benke
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Lora Nash To: Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group) Sent:
>>> Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Re. Your
>>> Order Number - 041700074 has been dispatched.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Customer,
>>>
>>>
>>> Again I must direct you to the terms and conditions. All
>>> mail order companies sell out of stock, we have over half
>>> a million customers and people buying online 24 hours a
>>> day.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are several reasons why a record or limited supply
>>> hardware product (clearance item etc) may not be in stock
>>> when we come to pick your order.
>>>
>>>
>>> When we get a copy of a sought after record/item we may only
>>> have 1 or 2 in stock. When we advertise these
>>> records/items for sale we may get 20+ requests for the same
>>> tune/item (which could be by Phone, Post, Fax, Email,
>>> Internet or even from a shop customer). Unfortunately 19
>>> people are going to be disappointed until the next time we
>>> get the record/item back in stock (which if there is that
>>> much demand we will naturally try very hard to obtain more
>>> copies). It could also be that the last copy is damaged or
>>> unsuitable to be shipped to you.
>>>
>>>
>>> For this reason we state in the agreed terms and conditions
>>> of sale that all orders are subject to stock availability
>>> (what is in stock and in good condition at the time of
>>> picking.) Any items that are in stock will be shipped
>>> straight away. Any items not in stock will go onto back
>>> order as per the agreed terms. Please note back orders are
>>> shipped at no additional shipping charge, just the usual
>>> handling. As with all orders, we only charge for items when
>>> they are despatched to you.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am sorry that you feel disappointed with our service but
>>> items do sell out. We are actually a record finding agency
>>> so we always do our upmost to track down the other items.
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Lora Nash
>>>
>>>
>>> Office Manager
>>>
>>>
>>> Hard To Find Records
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:53:44 +1000, Andrew Benke \(Lime Soda
>>> Group\) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The simple fact remains that you did not inform me at the
>>>> time of ordering that a short delivery was possible. You
>>>> clearly said that the items were in stock. Hence why I
>>>> ordered 3 items and not just one. This one record would
>>>> cost me $33AUD???? More than double what I pay for
>>>> records now? Is that fair??? I suggest you find a
>>>> solution to this problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lora Nash To:
>>>> Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group) Sent: Wednesday,
>>>> September 15, 2004 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Re. Your Order
>>>> Number - 041700074 has been dispatched.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When you placed your order with us you agreed to all of
>>>> our terms and conditions, including what happens when
>>>> items in the order are not in stock.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please see Section 11 of our terms
>>>> http://www.htfr.com/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As the order has been shipped you cannot cancel it. You
>>>> can return the vinyl for store credit however
>>>> shipping costs will be your responsibility.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When placing an order with any company it is very
>>>> important to read their terms so you are fully aware
>>>> of what happens at every stage of your order.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lora Nash
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Office Manager
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hard To Find Records
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 11:46:32 +1000, Andrew Benke \(Lime
>>>> Soda Group\) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Lora
>>>>>
>>>>> This is unfortunately is not my issue that a customer
>>>>> can hold onto stock whilst I am ordering it. The
>>>>> point is that at the time of dispatch I should have
>>>>> been asked if I wanted the order sent to me
>>>>> short delivered. I understand that managing a large
>>>>> inventory like your own may have stock allocation
>>>>> errors but it is not fair for you to assume that I
>>>>> would want just the one record sent to me and
>>>>> pay such a high delivery rate for one record.
>>>>> Naturally, I'd like to be informed before any
>>>>> decision is made on my behalf in the assumption
>>>>> that I would accept part delivery. Again, please
>>>>> cancel the order.
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Andrew Benke
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lora Nash To:
>>>>> Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group) Sent: Monday,
>>>>> September 13, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: Re: Re. Your
>>>>> Order Number - 041700074 has been dispatched.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that they were in stock at the time of
>>>>> your order, but in between the time you placed
>>>>> your order and it was picked and packed, it got
>>>>> sold unfortunately. We are a store open to the
>>>>> public, so someone could have that record in their
>>>>> hand at the same time as you are ordering it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience
>>>>> caused to yourself by this and I can confirm
>>>>> that I have canceled the back orders for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lora Nash
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Office Manager
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hard To Find Records
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:02:09 +1000, Andrew Benke
>>>>> \(Lime Soda Group\) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please see my email below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your sight clearly said they were in stock, not back
>>>>>> ordered at the time I ordered the product. You
>>>>>> make these distinctions very clear. So as I
>>>>>> relied on this information which was
>>>>>> misleading as it clearly said the products were
>>>>>> instock, I made the order. If you do not
>>>>>> cancel this order I will instruct Visa of this
>>>>>> and not authorise the transaction. Please
>>>>>> reverse the transaction immediately and do
>>>>>> not send my goods. Regards Andrew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lora Nash
>>>>>> To: Andrew Benke (Lime Soda Group) Sent:
>>>>>> Friday, September 10, 2004 10:23 PM Subject:
>>>>>> Re: Re. Your Order Number - 041700074 has
>>>>>> been dispatched.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As stated in the email, unfortunately the order
>>>>>> already been despatched, and therefore cannot be
>>>>>> cancelled. Unfortunately this is just an
>>>>>> issue of stock availability. The records have
>>>>>> been put onto back order for you and will be
>>>>>> sent out as soon as they next come into stock
>>>>>> at no extra charge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please read through our terms and conditions of
>>>>>> sale, and stock availability at
>>>>>> www.htfr.com/terms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for any inconvenience this has cuased to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lora Nash
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Office Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard To Find Records
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:11:16 +1000, Andrew Benke
>>>>>> \(Lime Soda Group\) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You cannot be serious. Before you dispatch
>>>>>>> anything I should have been made aware
>>>>>>> that they were not in stock. I am not
>>>>>>> paying 7 pounds for shipping one record.
>>>>>>> Cancel the order.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hard To Find
>>>>>>> Records" <htfr...@htfr.com> To:
>>>>>>> <abe...@iinet.netau> Sent: Friday,
>>>>>>> September 10, 2004 12:53 AM Subject: Re. Your
>>>>>>> Order Number - 041700074 has been
>>>>>>> dispatched.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your Customer ID Number: H584459 - Order
>>>>>>>> Number: 041700074
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the 8 September 2004, you placed an order
>>>>>>>> via The Internet from Hard To
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Find Records.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are happy to inform you that the following
>>>>>>>> items have now been shipped
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to you by our Silver shipping option to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 18 LEETON AVE
>>>>>>>> COOGEE
>>>>>>>> 2034
>>>>>>>> AUSTRALIA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1 x MR135947 - CALVIN HARRIS FT AYAH - LET ME
>>>>>>>> KNOW - UK = £6.00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sub Total: £6.00
>>>>>>>> Shipping: £7.00
>>>>>>>> Final Total: £13.00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Payments
>>>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>>> Amount: £13.00 Method:
>>>>>>>> Credit/Debit/Charge Card Type: Visa
>>>>>>>> Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx2899 (last 4 digits)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The following items from your order are
>>>>>>>> currently out of stock and have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> been placed on back-order. If these items come
>>>>>>> back into stock within 12 weeks we
>>>>>>> will automatically charge and despatch
>>>>>>> these to you as long as a payment card has
>>>>>>> been used for your original order. There
>>>>>>> will be no additional shipping charges
>>>>>>> for these items, only a handling charge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1 x MR130049 - KING BRITT PRES. SYLK 130 - I
>>>>>>>> CAN'T WAIT - GERMAN = £8.00 1 x
>>>>>>>> MR97188 - SOUL AVENGERZ - SAMPLER VOLUME 3
>>>>>>>> - GERMAN = £7.00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________ NOD32 1.865 (20040908) Information
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus
>>>>>>>> system. http://www.nod32.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________ NOD32 1.868 (20040910) Information
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>>>> http://www.nod32.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________ NOD32 1.868 (20040910) Information
>>>>> __________
>>>>>
>>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>>> http://www.nod32.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ NOD32 1.869 (20040913) Information __________
>>>>
>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>> http://www.nod32.com
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 1.870 (20040915) Information __________
>>>
>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>> http://www.nod32.com
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 1.871 (20040916) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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