Want opinions on Carver amps...whats better for the $$$?
johann
(I have a few posts begging opinions...here's another:)
I'm shopping for a small, pro, rack, stereo amp (90-200W/ch) and have nearly
decided to get a Carver PM300 ($534 from Full Compass).
Basically I have cold feet.
Any opinions on this or other similar amps...any cheaper good amps?
BTW, the PM300 is 150w/ch, bridgable, front-panel gains, 7-seg LED VU's.
Thanks in advance,
Apprehensive in Las Vegas.
joh...@nevada.edu
edward.w.mcfarland
If you value full fidelity DON'T get a Carver. They're light and sound ok
for the range of frequencies that they can supply the power for but they just
don't cut it on the low end (bass frequencies) I use one for monitors but I
wouldn't use one for the main (house) speakers. Look for a used Crown, QSC,
AB Systems, or just about any other "pro" quality amplifier. If you did a
blindfold test of the Carver and most other amps of similar power rating I
bet you'd choose the other.
Ed McFarland We make history the old-fashioned
e...@mvuzr.att.com way, we revise it!
"Almost anyone can be on TV, I prove it nightly."
-David Letterman
Craig F. Ochikubo
I have a M300, which is the consumer version of the PM300. The *only* reason
I like it is because it is light. It is not as warm sounding as a old 100w
per channel David Hafler amp I was using, and not as loud as a couple of
Crown amps that I tried (one was one of the older ones and one was a
newer model). The bass is not as strong on the M300 as either the Hafler
or Crown. I don't play super loud and use it only for keyboard sound
in stereo, and also use a graphic EQ to boost the bass a bit. It was
cheap (about $400 - the home model) and *light*. :)
Kevin Karth
for over two years now, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365.25 days per year.
It's operation has been flawless! It's quiet (hum & noise), and very robust.
800 watts into 4 ohms. Sounds real clean too.
Matt Mora
>If you value full fidelity DON'T get a Carver. They're light and sound ok
>for the range of frequencies that they can supply the power for but they just
>don't cut it on the low end (bass frequencies) I use one for monitors but I
>wouldn't use one for the main (house) speakers. Look for a used Crown, QSC,
>AB Systems, or just about any other "pro" quality amplifier. If you did a
>blindfold test of the Carver and most other amps of similar power rating I
>bet you'd choose the other.
Yeah don't get a carver if you want a amp that doesn't color the sound.
Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies. When you A/B a crown to
anything else in a music store the crown will sound beefier because of its
accented bass region. This definitly sells more amps. Whether they did it to
sell more amps or the design requires this "feature", it remains to be seen.
And if you already have too much bass in your system (who really has too much
bass? :-)) the crown is only going to make it worse.
The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
power levels. They will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored. If
you want the carver to match the crown just boost the bass on your eq a bit.
Now reliablity might be in question. I hear that crowns are rock solid
and a few people on the net said tehy had problems with the carvers. I own
nither one of these amps yet ( I have SAE and QSC's) so I can't comment
on that aspect.
Carver's are great amps and so are Crowns. If I had the cash I would probably
own both.
Matt
--
___________________________________________________________
Matthew Mora | my Mac Matt...@sri.com
SRI International | my unix mxm...@unix.sri.com
___________________________________________________________
Jammer of Axigally
Ditto. CS800 is a great amp! Kinda VERY heavy though. :-)
The other thing I appreciated about the CS800, is that the specs state that
it is 400 Watts/channel amp (if used in stereo), and the factory tests for my
particular amp was almost 500 Watts/channel! Needless to say, it was a
pleasant surprise... :-)
Note: The factory test results, as I understood it, were specific to the amp I
bought. Another CS800 would have slightly different specs. In fact, the
specs between the two amps in the CS800 were slightly different from each
other.
(Not enough to make a noticable difference, however) Many thumbs up for the
Peavey CS800!
-- Jammer --
TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER
1> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
> power levels.
2> They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored.
3> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies
All three of these statements are WRONG!
O.K. Here we go... Statement 1, " The Carvers are fully capable of driving
a continous load at their rated power levels."
They are most certanily NOT. Here is why. (My apologies to those
who have already read the following tyrate)
The Carver amps are lighter, but can not deliver the power.
The majority of the weight of an audio power amplifier comes from the power
transformer. A smaller power transformer, even though it may deliver the
same voltages, is not capable of transfering as much power as a heavier
transformer. This holds for torriods also, they are not magic, and must
also obey the laws of physics.
I maintain that, for PA use, with a lot of low-frequency energy, and a lot
of compression in the proscessing chain, 8-10 Carvers CAN NOT EVEN COME CLOSE
to the performence of 4-6 Crest, or BGW, or Crown, or any well designed amp
with A PROPERLY DESIGNED AND ENGINEERED Power transformer and power supply.
Carver is just simply POOR ENGINEERING. The power transformers in the Carver
amps are TOO SMALL.
A Simple fact, you need about a 1.7KVA power transformer for 1KW output
form an audio power amplifier. This is only an approxiomate rule, but has
rung true in the amps I have designed and built. Carver doesn't even come
close to this figure with their tiny transformers. Think about it, if the
carver amps really did what their specs claim with the smaller transformer,
every manufacturer in the market would be using smaller power transformers.
Well, they do not.
Statement 2,"They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored."
No, they do not. The bass is defficient and EXTREMELY colored, except when
used at the most conservative output power levels. See the reasons why above.
Statement 3, "Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat.
They have a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies"
Crowns are known for great bass because the have properly sized and
constructed power supplies, as do all of the really good amps (Crest, BGW,
QSC, just name a few). Crowns do NOT have exhibit any low frequency boost. I
just checked a DC300A to confirm this. And later, I may check one of the 20+
Crown CSL460/800's that I use almost every day. The DC300A was flat down to
10 Hz. You may have never heard a really flat audio system if you perfer
the sound of Carver amps. And that is just the point, Carver amps have a
definate sound of their own.
Sorry for the flamable tone of my response, but wrong is wrong dude.
And I have a sore spot for the kind of poor engineering exhibited by Carver
amplifiers.
Bye
John T.
alex t stagg x4718
years ago) for about 3 years driving our monitor system.
On one side we have a pair of Yamaha "Club Series" 15-inch
wedges and a Galaxy Hot Spot. On the other side we have
three Galaxy Hot Spots paralleled. As you can imagine this
presents a "challenging" load to the Carver. Typical onstage
SPLs are in the 80-90 db range (not quiet - sometimes it's
louder when the soundman isn't paying attention :-).
Just in case you think it's just taking a "sunday drive",
it's used for two services, Thursday night music practice,
Wednesday night youth meetings (definitely challenged here...),
periodic Friday night worship meetings, Saturday Weddings,
Tuesday and Friday night wedding/music rehearsals, and other
misc events.
Through all of this, no problems were ever seen with the amp.
An SAE 2000 "semi-pro" amp was it's predecessor and that gave up
after a only year. I'm glad the other gear in the rack wasn't
damaged by the fire :-).
Alex.
----------------------------------------------------------------
A. T. (Alex) Stagg/ARH215 | INTERNET: a...@udev.cdc.com
Control Data Systems, Inc. |
4201 Lexington Ave.N. | fax: 01-612-482-4455
Arden Hills, MN USA 55126-6198 | Voice: 01-612-482-4718
TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER
mxm...@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) writes:
1> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
> power levels.
2> They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored.
3> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies
All three of these statements are WRONG!
O.K. Here we go... Statement 1, " The Carvers are fully capable of driving
a continous load at their rated power levels."
TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER
1> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
> power levels.
2> They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored.
3> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies
All three of these statements are WRONG!
O.K. Here we go... Statement 1, " The Carvers are fully capable of driving
a continous load at their rated power levels."
TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER
mxm...@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) writes:
1> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
> power levels.
2> They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored.
3> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies
All three of these statements are WRONG!
O.K. Here we go... Statement 1, " The Carvers are fully capable of driving
a continous load at their rated power levels."
TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER
> mxm...@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) writes:
> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
> power levels.
> They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored.
> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies
All three of these statements are WRONG!
O.K. Here we go... Statement 1, " The Carvers are fully capable of driving
a continous load at their rated power levels."
TABLER,JOHN ALEXANDER
> mxm...@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) writes:
> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
> power levels.
> They (carvers) will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored.
> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies
All three of these statements are WRONG!
O.K. Here we go... Statement 1, " The Carvers are fully capable of driving
a continous load at their rated power levels."
Brian Gentry
|> In article <1992Jun25.2...@cbnews.cb.att.com> e...@cbnews.cb.att.com (edward.w.mcfarland) writes:
|> Yeah don't get a carver if you want a amp that doesn't color the sound.
|> Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
|> a definite bass rise in the lower frequencies. When you A/B a crown to
|> anything else in a music store the crown will sound beefier because of its
|> accented bass region. This definitly sells more amps. Whether they did it to
|> sell more amps or the design requires this "feature", it remains to be seen.
|> And if you already have too much bass in your system (who really has too much
|> bass? :-)) the crown is only going to make it worse.
This is completely false. Crown amps are engineered to be as flat as
possible. Crown amps are widely used as laboratory power amplifiers.
This is an exacting application which requires that the amplifier have
a near flat frequency response. There are several possible reasons for
why Crown amps have "more bass" than some other amps. Crown amplifiers
have an extremely high damping factor (usually > 1000) which allows
them to control the movement of the speaker cone very well at low
frequencies. Another possible reason is the low impedance drive
capabilities of Crown amps. Speakers typicaly have lower impendances
in the bass region than in other frequency bands; most amplifiers do
not have enough current capability to drive low impedances well.
|> The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
|> power levels. They will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored. If
|> you want the carver to match the crown just boost the bass on your eq a bit.
Carver amplifiers are very interesting. They use a modulation technique
on the power waveform that doesn't make a lot of sense. They do seem to
work well with mid/high frequencies but (like everyone else has said)
they don't do very well on bass.
|> Now reliablity might be in question. I hear that crowns are rock solid
|> and a few people on the net said tehy had problems with the carvers. I own
|> nither one of these amps yet ( I have SAE and QSC's) so I can't comment
|> on that aspect.
I agree that Crown amps are rock solid (I own a 1976 DC-300A). When
I worked for a local professional sound company we had three Carver
PM-1.5 amplifiers. In the course of six months all of them had one
problem or another. One amp had all of the output transistors in
one channel blown--and this was not a new problem--it happenned to
that amp once before. Eventually all three amps were sent back to Carver
and modified. Apparently there was a problem with their original design.
I don't know how they fared after the factory mod.
|> Carver's are great amps and so are Crowns. If I had the cash I would probably
|> own both.
I wouldn't buy a Carver unless it was REALLY, REALLY cheap.
|> Matt
|>
|> --
|> ___________________________________________________________
|> Matthew Mora | my Mac Matt...@sri.com
|> SRI International | my unix mxm...@unix.sri.com
|> ___________________________________________________________
Brian L. Gentry
(br...@ugrad.ee.ufl.edu)
Jack A. Zucker
It also makes a helluva boat anchor :-)
Seriously, I used a CS something-or-other at one point. It was supposed
to be 100 watts/channel into 4 ohms. I was using it with a pair of Peavey
cabinets each containing a 12" black widow, and a horn. This amp with
these speakers was not loud enough for a jazz guitar trio gig. The
Peavey stuff tends to be overrated in terms of power. It was also
extremely heavy.
-Jaz
--
| Bmaj7 D7 | Gmaj7 Bb7 | Ebmaj7 | Am7 D7 |
| Jack A Zucker {uunet}!j...@icd.ab.com |
| Allen-Bradley Company, Inc. or ICCGCC::ZUCKER |
| 747 Alpha Drive |
| Highland Hts., OH 44143 Phone(216) 646-4668 FAX: (216) 646-4484 |
Stephen Dennison
>In article <1992Jun29....@tvnews.tv.tek.com>, kev...@samsara.tv.tek.com (Kevin Karth) writes:
>|> Have you looked at the Peavey "CS" line? I've been using a "CS800"
[Some Lines Munched]
>
>It also makes a helluva boat anchor :-)
Cute, but accurate.
>
>Seriously, I used a CS something-or-other at one point. It was supposed
>to be 100 watts/channel into 4 ohms. I was using it with a pair of Peavey
>cabinets each containing a 12" black widow, and a horn. This amp with
>these speakers was not loud enough for a jazz guitar trio gig. The
>Peavey stuff tends to be overrated in terms of power. It was also
>extremely heavy.
I was running 4 of the old Altec Voice-Of-The-Theater horn drivers, the 808
-8a's, on one side of a BGW 750. The horns were in a series-series-parallel
configuration that yielded a nominal 8 ohm output impedence. I ran the set
up for years without a hitch, but had to use a CS800 once in place of the
750 which I had lent out to a friend and hadn't gotten back on time. Well,
to make a long story painful, during the sound check, using a Rane RE-27
and a {gack} Radio Shack db meter, at the same level I was running the BGW,
the CS800 took all 4 drivers out, WHAM !
Granted, the 750 was rated at 225 per side at 8 ohms, and the cs800 at 200
into the same load, and the horns *actual* capability was probably in the
120 watt range (total for all 4), but in *years* of use, the 750 never
popped a single diaphragm and the CS800 took all 4 in one fell swoop before
they even had a chance to warm up (in other words, it wasn't fatigue from
extended use *that* *night*)
The only conclusion I could draw was that the BGW was by far the cleaner
amp, even though the early CS800's were fabled to be constructed from very
early BGW designs.
I hear the *new* Peavy stuff is ok, but I have never taken another chance
with their stuff.
Oh, and the time frame was the mid to late 70's, so don't flame me for
using substandard gear... it was pretty good for back then. :-)
-- Stephen
nuthin' left but the signature... press `n' to skip it.
The `past' is the pablum we feed our souls when the `future' has
soured. Though it will sustain us, it will not allow growth.
McGlynnJ
I am real suprised about the number of PEAVY recommendations.
Even when I bought my PA system, people recommended PEAVY.
I did not like the PEAVY amplifiers at ALL - try running them
at full power and clipping them - yuck. Then again, I was
comparing them to ASHLEY and QSC amps. That's like comparing a
Hyundi to a Ferrari - but the prices are closer here.
Also a comment on PEAVY speakers. I really liked the ones
that were "Black Widow" equipped. But, I didn't buy them.
All I can say is go down yourself and "Test Drive" them all.
Everybodys got their own opinion. In some cases, you will
see an obvious difference. It really depends on your
application.
Joseph A McGlynn (JAM)
AT&T Bell Laboratories
US3...@vm.cc.latech.edu
I've seen comments about Crown, Peavey, Carver, et al, but no one has mentioned
AB amplifiers. Has anyone heard of the company? Any opinions?
The owner of our only real music store in town swears by them, says they are
used exclusively at Disney.
Mike James
Ruston, LA
US3...@VM.CC.LATECH.EDU
edward.w.mcfarland
>In article <1992Jun25.2...@cbnews.cb.att.com> e...@cbnews.cb.att.com (edward.w.mcfarland) writes:
>
>>If you value full fidelity DON'T get a Carver. They're light and sound ok
>>for the range of frequencies that they can supply the power for but they just
>>don't cut it on the low end (bass frequencies) I use one for monitors but I
>>wouldn't use one for the main (house) speakers. Look for a used Crown, QSC,
>>AB Systems, or just about any other "pro" quality amplifier. If you did a
>>blindfold test of the Carver and most other amps of similar power rating I
>>bet you'd choose the other.
>
>Yeah don't get a carver if you want a amp that doesn't color the sound.
>Crowns are known for the great bass because the are not flat. They have
(Stuff about Crown amps not being flat deleted)
>The Carvers are fully capable of driving a continous load at their rated
>power levels. They will product the full spectrum mostly uncolored. If
There's a guy who read this list who used to work for Clair Bros. (BIG time
sound co.) Perhaps he can tell us how Clair had to supplement their Carvers
with a special AC supply system (surge proof???) because the Carvers couldn't
supply the power at low freq. to the satisfaction of critical listeners/clients.
>you want the carver to match the crown just boost the bass on your eq a bit.
I tried that and it may have been because I was running the Carver near its
top rated power but I couldn't get any "balls" (bass) out of it. (EV Sentry IV
speaker systems)
>Now reliablity might be in question. I hear that crowns are rock solid
>and a few people on the net said tehy had problems with the carvers. I own
I have the Carver PM 350 and after a few months of gigs I heard some stuff
rolling around inside. Pulled it apart and found screws had come out of a
nearly inaccessable area... it was tough getting them back in.
>nither one of these amps yet ( I have SAE and QSC's) so I can't comment
>on that aspect.
>
>Carver's are great amps and so are Crowns. If I had the cash I would probably
>own both.
>
>Matt
>
>--
>___________________________________________________________
>Matthew Mora | my Mac Matt...@sri.com
>SRI International | my unix mxm...@unix.sri.com
>___________________________________________________________
Ed McFarland We make history the old-fashioned
e...@mvuzr.att.com way, we revise it!
"Almost anyone can be on TV, I prove it nightly."
-David Letterman