Lip buzzing--embouchre studies
Curt Fischer
Reading some of the threads here lately convinced me to incorporate lip
buzzing into my practice routine.
So, next time I'm practicing, I give it a try, and...
the results were not good. Uneven farting noises were the best I could do.
With experimentation I found that I could not lip buzz much higher than a
middle C. But even this was with a much different embouchre than I use for
playing.
I have never used lip buzzing in practice before...if I cannot lip buzz past
middle C but my trumpet range extends to Eb2 or so (much lower than I'd
like, but still much higher than middle C).
What is my most likely problem?
- I need to completely change my horn playing embouchre to match my lip
buzzing embouchre and practice, practice, practice to adapt to this new
embouchre.
- I have never done lip buzzing before so maybe after some further practice
my lip buzzing will be more in line with my horn playing. No need to
radically adjust embouchre.
Thanks for the advice.
Jose Jimenez
again. If you want the ear training benefits, use the mouthpiece. Lip
buzzing (and too much mouthpiece buzzing) will make you sound like a fly.
It will screw you up
FORGET IT. I am doing you a great service telling you this, take my advice
PLEASE. It's for your own good.
bach37
I agree. Your lips need the mouthpiece cup, rim, and such to do the trick.
Without the mouthpiece, your lips buzzing freely is a whole new thing. I
think lip buzzing is good to get a few concepts in your head, but you really
need the mouthpiece, and the resistance of the trumpet.
-S
jazz...@hotmail.com
changing your playing embouchure without some direction from someone who
knows what they're doing. Implementing an embouchure change without help
is a slippery slope.
See Clint McLaughlin's (Pops') posts if you are interested in pursuing the
lip-buzzing thing, tho, he's a big proponent of this method. Also see
www.Bbtrumpet.com ...he has several books.
For my part, I try to (a) buzz 10-15 minutes a day. I also try and get
to the point where I can free-buzz (for example) a G, put the horn up and
get a nice sound, and remove the horn and still be buzzing a G.
This was *not* taught to me by Pops, rather by my college teacher several
years ago. (Though I suspect the origin of the method is the same.)
Some folks eschew lip buzzing altogether (and a few will chime in
here). Seems to work for some and not for others. I like it, especially
shortly after a hard day of playing.
Curt Fischer <cr...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
<elided>
--
Jeff Helgesen
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/
<InternapFilter=ON>
jazz...@hotmail.com
> Lip
> buzzing (and too much mouthpiece buzzing) will make you sound like a fly.
> It will screw you up
Thanks for the gross characterization. I know plenty of players who have
great sounds who integrate free buzzing into their routine.
Always take advice from someone who speaks in absolutes with a grain of
salt.
Rich Willey
Moon...@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>You don't play like you lip buzz. Do yourself a favor and never do it
>again. If you want the ear training benefits, use the mouthpiece. Lip
>buzzing (and too much mouthpiece buzzing) will make you sound like a fly.
>It will screw you up
>
>FORGET IT. I am doing you a great service telling you this, take my advice
>PLEASE. It's for your own good.
>
Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.
I studied for years with the late Dr. Donald S. Reinhardt, and he was a big
advocate of buzzing the lips without the mouthpiece. He had many, many
guidelines for the "correct" accomplishment of buzzing, and I suspect that if
you aren't aware of all of these, then, yes, you probably could have
detrimental effects from it.
Basic guidelines include: use a wet embouchure, never tongue a buzz, never
buzz below 2nd line G for trumpet. If you want more information about this,
consult his Encyclopedia of the Pivot System. Try to borrow an old copy
(thick, black book) and don't buy the "new" one from Colin. Colin
grossly overcharges for the new one, in my opinion.
Anybody who says "across the board" that something like buzzing without the
mouthpiece is no good had better have years and years of documentation to
refute the massive track record of excellent results of the students of Dr.
Donald S. Reinhardt.
Have a nice day, unless you've made other plans!
--
Rich Willey
http://www.boptism.com
4500 Broadway #2K / New York, NY 10040
212 569 9329 / Fax 503 214 7155
KEEP ON BOPPIN!
Donald L. Winters
> buzz below 2nd line G for trumpet.
Rich,
I think I understand the reasons for the other guidelines. But why not
buzz below 2nd line G?
Thanks, Don Winters
bach37
not
> buzz below 2nd line G?
Trombone embochure.
-Scott
M. van der Woude
-When buzzing, try try project your air flow to a certain point in the
room, like a vase, a poster or anything.
-When there is no sound at all or only a bad, uncomfortable sound,
move your finger from approx. 20cm closer and closer to your mouth
while buzzing. You will notice that when your finger is close enough
to your lips, there will be just enough backpressure to make your lips
do their trick.
Hope this helps,
Mauk
On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:09:39 +0900, "Curt Fischer" <cr...@po.cwru.edu>
wrote:
Eric Rogers
> my lip buzzing will be more in line with my horn playing. No need to
> radically adjust embouchre.
This is the most likely reason.
I and a lot of other players I know use it because it helps "shake out" a
stiff morning lip and gets the blood flowing. Also it takes a lot more
"corner strength" to loose-lip buzz a pitch than it does to play it on
your trumpet. So it also gets my chop muscles working and ready to play. I
don't know if you can compare this at all with an embechoure you would use
to play with because the mouthpiece contact will affect lip positioning
somewhat. I usually loose-lip buzz down to pedal C and have not seen any
adverse affects from doing so.
Eric
thevol...@hotmail.com
Jose Jimenez
1) They are wasting their time, at best
2) Believe it, or not, there are absolutes. If there weren't, the universe
would fall apart.
Just me again
Jose Jimenez
the book. There are many ways to work hard and play well but I am looking
for maximum efficiency. Middle g is pretty high to buzz without a
mouthpiece.
I always have a nice day. You have one too.
never
> buzz below 2nd line G for trumpet.
Jose Jimenez
you must like the sound that I refer to as that of a fly. If you do, enjoy
it.
My original advice was to the guy that tried to free buzz and couldn't. If
you are already a member of the free buzz cult I am not bothering to preach
to you. I am trying to help someone who will be frustrated if he wastes
his time learning how.
Jose Jimenez
refer too. It is when one tries to play in the normal trumpet range that
the major problems will occur.
"Eric Rogers" wrote in message
> I and a lot of other players I know use it because it helps "shake out" a
> stiff morning lip and gets the blood flowing. . So it also gets my chop
Pops
Do you REALLY think that a poster who is ashamed to post their real name
should be listened to. (Brian)
Are you so ugly that you need a paper bag on your head to leave the
house?
Is your real name so offensive that ladies would faint if you used it?
Are you being stalked?
Are you on the Federal Witness Relocation Program?
Does it just plain suck to be you?
You think a second line g is high to buzz; Are you a closet tuba player?
Thanks for your wisdom but until you have the "manhood" to use your name
go away.
Information about my trumpet & embouchure books.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com
Best wishes
Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
Jose Jimenez
buzzing.
Free buzzing sounds like a fly and if you do it the same way into the horn
you will sound like a big ugly one.
Are you in charge here? I think not.
Jose
"'Pops'" <Bbtr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10091-3C4...@storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Jose Jimenez
>>>Unless you change the way that you blow when you put the horn to your
chops
you must like the sound that I refer to as that of a fly. If you do, enjoy
it.
My original advice was to the guy that tried to free buzz and couldn't. If
you are already a member of the free buzz cult I am not bothering to preach
to you. I am trying to help someone who will be frustrated if he wastes
his time learning how.>>
"'Pops'" <Bbtr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10091-3C4...@storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
Jose Jimenez
JJ (The original) Well, almost.
Give up, I am relentless when provoked.
"'Pops'" <Bbtr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:10091-3C4...@storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
William D. Rowe
You might be setting your embouchure too tightly if you cannot free buzz
with the same setting that you normally play with. Some folks seem to be
able to buzz a significant portion of their range, others have a harder time
initially. Be careful how much time you spend if initially on free
buzzing, it can be fatiguing and if you do too much free buzzing you will
tend to lose flexibility. Experiment a little and see if it helps your
playing. IF it helps, add it to your routine, if it hurts things, don't do
it.
Like Rich W., I studied with Doc Reinhardt for a few years, thought I'm far
a less accomplished player than Rich.
Good Luck
Bill
"Curt Fischer" <cr...@po.cwru.edu> wrote in message
news:a1tp7q$q4p$1...@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu...
Pops
But since you use a fake name; for all we know you are in elementary
school and are advising us based on 6 months of playing experience.
That was my point. Fake name = NO credibility.
I must have missed the part where people were told to sound like a fly.
That is too tight. It is like a motor boat.
Lip buzzing is an exercise. It helps to teach a closed embouchure. It is
used for people who try to play so open that they have a very limited
range and endurance.
Exercise is to strengthen muscle not to mimic a specific motor skill or
take the place of practice. Nor did I say to do it for life. I always
say 4-6 weeks.
Eric Rogers
diatonically to pedal C then start back on low C and go up diatonically to
middle C. Then I start at middle C and go up as far as I can go (right now
just middle G). I have never had any problems with doing this and it feels
good in the mornings after I have done 8 hours of playing the day before.
But I also don't have any illusions that I am using the same embechoure I
play with. I simply use it for a shake-out and to build corner strength
because without the contact of the mouthpiece, it takes a lot more
strength to hold the appeture at the correct shape.
Eric
Wayne Trager
> Do you REALLY think that a poster who is ashamed to post their real name
> should be listened to. (Brian)
Okay Pops,
You know it is Brian, is that any reason to barage him with insults!
Brian and i have had some differences in opinion in the past, but I
never went on such a tirade. Why is it that whenever anyone has a
difference of opinion with you that you reciprocate by hurling
insults? Then you rally the troops behind you. This is a forum, a free
exchange of ideas. There is absolutely no need to hurl insults. Brian
is not a troll, and has been posting on this newsgroup long before you
were. Pops your thoughts and ideas on trumpet playing, are just that,
"thoughts and ideas", they are not gospel.
Sincerely,
Wayne
http://communities.msn.com/TragerTrumpetTalk
Pops wrote:
> Are you so ugly that you need a paper bag on your head to leave the
> house?
>
> Is your real name so offensive that ladies would faint if you used it?
>
> Are you being stalked?
>
> Are you on the Federal Witness Relocation Program?
>
> Does it just plain suck to be you?
>
> You think a second line g is high to buzz; Are you a closet tuba player?
>
> Thanks for your wisdom but until you have the "manhood" to use your name
> go away.
William E. Graham
Wayne Trager <wtr...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:d6518fe3.0201...@posting.google.com...
> Bbtr...@webtv.net ('Pops') wrote in message
news:<10091-3C4...@storefull-118.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
...
> > Do you REALLY think that a poster who is ashamed to post
their real name
> > should be listened to. (Brian)
That depends on the name....I am reminded of the old
vaudeville joke about the guy that goes to court to get his
name changed:
Judge: And what is your name now?
Guy: George Shitface.
Judge: Well, I can certainly sympathize with you, with a
name like that! Tell me, George, what do you
want to change your name too?
George: Mike Shitface.......
Pops
You have NOOOOOOOOO sense of humor. Newsgroups will give you an ulcer if
you are not careful.
You are WAAYYYYYYYY toooooooo sensitive.
They are just words and most are jokes.
P.S. I don't care if you and Brian invented the internet and this
newsgroup; when you do something stupid I'll tell you. I KNOW you'll
respond in a like manner.
Information about my trumpet & embouchure books.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com
Pops
Pops
I don't have a problem with Brian (that I know of). I don't think we
have written 3 words to each other.
I was just pointing out that since we do have REAL trolls on the group
right now. A real name would help support his posts.
I guess that YOU (Wayne) have a problem with me. (I may cry now.)
But I do think you take things too personally. Even when you are not
involved.
I do have a problem with one fool on this list but we can leave him out
of this thread.
JLisbeth
play with the same embouchure I use for buzzing.
I can buzz a note, put the horn to my lips and, with the right valve
combination, of course, get the same note on the horn. Then I can remove
the horn and still be buzzing the same note.
When I first started buzzing (on Pop's advice - Thanks, Pops!) I couldn't do
it at all. Then I could buzz for a few seconds with a lousy tone, almost
passing out, then several seconds, then for several minutes with my tone
improving as I went along. This has been an enormous help with my range,
air control, and especially my endurance.
Pops doesn't recommend buzzing over extended periods of time or for more
than a few minutes. I've had no problems with stiffness or loss of
flexibility. Just the opposite, in fact. I've been buzzing 10-20 minutes
per day (while driving) 3-4 days per week for about a year. When I started,
I had 45-60 minutes of endurance playing 3rd trumpet parts. Now I can play
a 2 or 2 1/2 hour rehearsal or concert with no trouble. And I'm playing 1st
trumpet.
There are lots of people with the same or similar experience with free
buzzing. It's done us a great deal of good.
JJ seems to have some deep hatred for buzzing. Sounds like a personal
problem. My advice, JJ? Don't buzz. You'll be much happier.
John Lisbeth
Cape Canaveral
"Eric Rogers" <thevol...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:thevolcanogod-1...@reg42.music.nwu.edu...
www.cozychops.com
It helps the lips memorize where they belong. Can be used to train the ear. Can
be used to help restore circulation in the lips...Lots of good things happen
with mpc buzzing.
www.cozychops.com
leadpipe sans mpc to focus...ya' can even work the ear while doing so. Still,
mpc buzzing is the best. Don't overdo the lip buzzing.
John Kool
I spell my name "Kool", not "fool".
But people make that mistake all the time. I forgive you.
Pops
How is it going? Glad to see you back on.
John Kool
Ha ha.
> How is it going? Glad to see you back on.
I call people at inconvenient times to sell them steaks, but do it well.
Luckily, two 'gigs' this week.
I love to play. Pity that chops and endurance go so quickly when I don't
practice much.
I still sell the "Elias Modern Scientific Trumpet Method", which contains
the complete "Buzz System". Probably where JJ got the idea of an insect
buzz. Clyde Hunt uses that analogy of a mosquito buzz, also.
Doc
> playing.
>
You will ALWAYS have a different configuration trying to buzz without
the mouthpiece/horn than with, due to the way the mouthpiece interacts
with and conforms the tissue, the amount of tissue that's involved in
the buzzing surface, the way the jaw and teeth need to be aligned to
meet the requirements of creating various tones with the horn etc.
> I have never used lip buzzing in practice before...if I cannot lip buzz past
> middle C but my trumpet range extends to Eb2 or so (much lower than I'd
> like, but still much higher than middle C).
>
> What is my most likely problem?
>
Who says it's a "problem"? You're comparing 2 completely different
activities from a mechanical/physics standpoint.
> - I need to completely change my horn playing embouchre to match my lip
> buzzing embouchre and practice, practice, practice to adapt to this new
> embouchre.
Why? First of all it's impossible, you'll NEVER make your playing
embouchure match the lip configuration that you get buzzing without
the mouthpiece. And what do you base this alleged imperative need on?
I'm going to piss off some people by saying this (probably the same
people I've pissed off by saying essentially the same thing in
previous threads) and I don't care. This freebuzz nonsense is an utter
fallacy. One of many time honored bits of misinformation that float
around the world of trumpet pedagogy.
I don't care what books someone has written, or what symphony they've
been the principal trumpet with, this is nonsense. At best it's a
pointless exercise, at worst it could be hampering you by mistraining
the muscles and neural pathways involved.
You don't say what if any problem you're having, but if you're having
chronic problems with your embouchure that aren't being corrected with
regular practice, you need to rework how you're playing. This could
involve a relatively dramatic change in how you do things, mouthpiece
selection/placement, horn angle, how you're engaging the mouthpiece
etc. I myself had my teeth altered in addition to all of the above,
which made a huge difference. By the way, you're not trying to muscle
some pickle barrel mouthpiece are you? (How come I can't play double
C's all night on my 1C??) You need to find a teacher who KNOWS what
they're doing, and those are not all that common, and unfortunately
may be hard to identify if you yourself don't understand the problem.
I've had first hand experience with some allegedly knowledgeable
teachers, some of whom were far more accomplished at blustery self
aggrandizement than with correcting embouchure problems. (I think I've
seen a few examples on this forum)
Just some thoughts.
Doc
> I read The Encyclopedia. I remember agreeing with about 5% , or less, of
> the book.
.laff
I think I'm basically in the same camp as you , but think we at least
have to give the late Doc Reinhardt credit for making a stab at
analysis of brass embouchures.
I'd say it's worth slogging through as a historical document in the
world of brass pedagogy, and think he wrote down an accurate
description of some non-integrated observations. However, it's an
extremely tedious read. He was not a gifted writer and in my opinion
he never really connected the dots regarding the observations he made,
in any kind of really useful way, and I don't think he really got the
whole picture.
William D. Rowe
> the mouthpiece/horn than with, due to the way the mouthpiece interacts
> with and conforms the tissue, the amount of tissue that's involved in
> the buzzing surface, the way the jaw and teeth need to be aligned to
> meet the requirements of creating various tones with the horn etc.
This is not necessarily true, I've met folks who buzz with the same
embouchure that they play with. That said, one should not necessarily
change one's embouchure just because one cannot free buzz with the same
embouchure that one normally plays with.
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.02012...@posting.google.com...
Joe Johnson
> embouchure that they play with.
> .....one should not necessarily
> change one's embouchure just because one cannot free buzz with the same
> embouchure that one normally plays with.
I agree. It is also true that some good players cannot buzz but they
play awesome.
Lip bussing is not an end. It is a means to achieve good results one
wants. If one can get good results without lip buzzing, lip buzzing
may not be the best practice to improve performance.
If one cannot achieve good results, lip buzzing may be a solution.
If I am not satisfied with my performance and feel lip buzzing may be
a solution, I would try it for a few weeks to a couple of months and
see the result. If I see no improvements, I would quit lip buzzing.
If one is a beginner, it is better to get advice from his teacher. If
he does not have one, keep asking in this NG.
Just a thought.
JJ
Doc
> > You will ALWAYS have a different configuration trying to buzz without
> > the mouthpiece/horn than with, due to the way the mouthpiece interacts
> >
>
> embouchure that they play with. That said, one should not necessarily
> change one's embouchure just because one cannot free buzz with the same
> embouchure that one normally plays with.
>
that are visible outside the mouthpiece looks more or less the same
from what you can see, the very fact that a mouthpiece IS on the lips,
creates a totally different environment. The mouthpiece rim is
altering the shape of the tissue, creating different tension across
the membrane, pinning the tissue against the teeth and shortening the
amount of tissue that's being used to buzz, altering the aperture. And
even though you can't readily see it, the muscles of the face are
being engaged differently.
William D. Rowe
I studied with Doc Reinhardt about 20 years ago. He had some students that
I observed that could buzz any note in their playable range and then walk
the buzz into the trumpet and out would come a 'normal' sound at a normal
volume. Some of these guys could do this to high GO and beyond. Their
mouthpiece placement and embouchure formation from about two feet away
looked to be the same buzzing as it was with the horn in their faces.
Before I actually saw someone do this I would have agreed with you that it
could not be done.
Regards,
Bill
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.02012...@posting.google.com...
jazz...@hotmail.com
of salt, IMHO.
Doc <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<elided>
Doc
> Doc:
> I studied with Doc Reinhardt about 20 years ago. He had some students that
> I observed that could buzz any note in their playable range and then walk
> the buzz into the trumpet and out would come a 'normal' sound at a normal
> volume. Some of these guys could do this to high GO and beyond. Their
> mouthpiece placement and embouchure formation from about two feet away
> looked to be the same buzzing as it was with the horn in their faces.
> Before I actually saw someone do this I would have agreed with you that it
> could not be done.
>
these Teflon particle oil additives where they supposedly "prove" how
great the product works, where if you don't have an understanding of
what's going on, gee it sure LOOKS convincing. They fire up a
motorcyle, drain the oil and run the hell out of it for a while and
wow, look! It still runs - Hooray! Spit 49 Miracle Oil additive works!
What they neglect to point out is that ANY oil will do this over a
short period, and the important part is what you CAN'T see, which is
the cylinder walls and rings, bearings, valves etc, which if examined
would be seen to be scored all to hell, in fact WORSE than with
untreated oil because the teflon clogs the oil passages blocking what
little oil there is.
What they did was get adept at very rapidly adjusting their embouchure
from a buzzing to a playing configuration. It is simply not possible
to maintain the same buzz in the same way with and without the
mouthpiece/horn. I'm sure you've used an embouchure visualizer. A
circular portion of the lips gets trapped and squeezed within the
boundary of the rim, a small portion of the tissue is isolated,
squeezed and bulges out somewhat and creates a totally different type
of buzzing surface. The muscles also are bearing in against the
mouthpiece itself isometrically which may well not be all that obvious
viewed from the outside. Without the mouthpiece you're buzzing across
a much broader portion of the lips, and more of the lip is free to
move, with a different type of tension across the tissue. In addition,
you're comparing buzzing into open air with buzzing into a tube with
acoustic properties and backpressure issues that also affect the buzz.
Unless you had sensors imbedded at intervals in all the facial muscles
as well as some method of measuring any subtle jaw/teeth alignment
changes, you can't say "their embouchure was the same". The changes
might not be readily visible from 2 feet away or from the outside at
all.
I too stood 2 feet away from a well known trombonist who I guarantee
you've heard of while he "demonstrated" this, and until he got a good
seal and made some quick minor adjustments, it sounded fuzzy and
crappy. I didn't say so in deference to his abilities and the fact
that he was playing for free at the particular venue.
Anyone who tries this and has a moderate awareness of the sensations
involved and intellectual honesty KNOWS it's not the same.
William E. Graham
They fire up a
> motorcyle, drain the oil and run the hell out of it for a
while and
Yeah....I drove a Hundai with a 4 speed manual transmission
all the way from SF to Salem, OR (600 miles) without any oil
in the transmission. (They had forgotten to refill it after
they serviced it) The next morning, when I backed out of my
friends driveway in Salem, the trannie self
destructed....But 600 quiet miles with no oil is
amazing.......
I agree that there is no way to measure the subtle
embouchure changes that take place when a mouthpiece touches
the lips....There are just too many parts to the
equation.....Perhaps the "hang the horn by a string" method
is the closest thing to playing with the same embouchure as
pure lip buzzing.....
Doc
> The advice of someone who speaks in absolutes should be taken with a grain
> of salt, IMHO.
>
Is that to be taken as absolutely true? ;)
William D. Rowe
like..well..reading an encyclopedia. The real value in Doc Reinhardt's
teachings and knowledge came out in lessons with the man. Like any good
teacher, he applied his principles differently to each student's needs.
There's a lot of information not covered in the Encyclopedia that you got in
the lessons, really the Enclyopedia of the Pivot System is a view of The
Pivot System from 5,000 feet above.
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.02012...@posting.google.com...
William D. Rowe
playing. Free buzzing is a callisthenic exercise that can be used to
strengthen the embouchure by some, and should be avoided by others. If I
have implied otherwise in my previous posts, I did not intend to.
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.0201...@posting.google.com...
jazz...@hotmail.com
Doc <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is that to be taken as absolutely true? ;)
--
Jeff Helgesen
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/
Joe Johnson
interpretation. Music is also subject to interpretation. Trumpet
sounds are subject to interpretation. Lip-buzzing is subject to
interpreatation.
Therefore, nothing is taken absolute in music. If it is absolute,
everybody in the world has the same interpreatation.
Every horn teacher does not share the same values of lip-buzzing. This
seems absolute. Good players are born of both kinds of teachers, one
who see values of lip-buzzing and another who does not see.
Lip-buzzing is not a qualification to become a trumpet teacher or a
good player.
JJ
jazz...@hotmail.com wrote in message news:<a34053$g28$1...@roundup.shout.net>...
William E. Graham
Joe Johnson <inte...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:48f0080d.02012...@posting.google.com...
jazz...@hotmail.com
--
Jeff Helgesen
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/
<InternapFilter=ON>
Jose Jimenez
As ever,
"'Pops'" <Bbtr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5954-3C4...@storefull-116.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Joe Johnson
Another troll!!!!!!! You must be a troll maker and lover!!!!
> ...... Newsgroups will give you an ulcer if
> you are not careful.
Good trumpet teachers and parents will do the same when their blood
pressure goes up.
JJ
Joe Johnson
Hey, I am the original.
JJ
Jose Jimenez
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.02012...@posting.google.com...
Jose Jimenez
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.02012...@posting.google.com...
Jose Jimenez
original poster a lot of trouble.
Jose Jimenez
> Reading some of the threads here lately convinced me to incorporate lip
> buzzing into my practice routine.
> With experimentation I found that I could not lip buzz much higher than a
> middle C. But even this was with a much different embouchre than I use
for
> playing...........................................................
>.........................................
Joe Johnson
JJ
Brian Jones
"Joe Johnson" <inte...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > JJ (The original)
> Hey, I am the original.
> JJ
Come on fellas this is getting weird. So if I've got it right one JJ is a
guy called Brian Moon who had some sort of spat with Al Lilly before I even
had a computer (funny as I've liked Brian Moons' contributions, few and far
between but informative and often humorous) whilst the other JJ is some guy
who lives in Washington state and has a downer on Al Lilly. What is it with
the initials JJ and people who wind up Al Lilly??
I wish you could find some different aliases if you can't use your own
names, I'm having to work too hard to remember the person behind the JJ.
yours
Brian Jones
Dr. Trumpet
"Brian Jones" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
And the best part is Brian and I for the most part get along.
JJ=Ken has used my address in the trumpet guild magazine to subscribe me to at
least four magazines, but they now have his name and address and I expect will
be pursuing legal action for his actions.
AL
William E. Graham
my opinion.)
That free buzzing when you've got a perfectly good trumpet
and mouthpiece available to you, is kind of like learning to
drive with a car simulator when you've got a car and an
empty parking lot to practice in. I think one should learn
to play the trumpet with a trumpet (mouthpiece attached) and
some music. Barring that, a trumpet with mouthpiece and no
music is the next best thing, and a mouthpiece by itself is
next best, and only lip buzz if you have been kidnapped, and
thrown in a cell without any of the three.
Jose Jimenez <Moon...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ufS68.6653$I5.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net
...
Joe Johnson
JJ is my initial. Joe Johnson is my name. It is nothing new.
> .....Moon who had some sort of spat with Al Lilly before I even
> had a computer...
Nice to know but not interesting.
>..... whilst the other JJ is some guy....
> who has a downer on Al Lilly.
I have nothing personal with him and anybody. He is a great guy. I
regret that I was a bit carried away by his illogical comments though
not a big deal. I should have honored his ego a bit more.
Brian is JJ THE COPY or should use BJ as his initial.
Sincerely,
JJ THE ORIGINAL.
Tim Priddy
inte...@my-deja.com wrote on 2/2/02 6:24 PM:
Whatever you say Ken.
Regards,
J. Timothy Priddy
trum...@chartermi.net
Lead, Ride, Side--All styles--Educator--Arranger--Sight Reader
Central Michigan Region
Brian Jones
>
> > .....Moon who had some sort of spat with Al Lilly before I even
> > had a computer...
>
> Nice to know but not interesting.
>
about the people you correspond with, why else would you apparently be
asking around the group about Al? Sorry you didn't find it interesting
though.
>
> I have nothing personal with him and anybody. He is a great guy. I
> regret that I was a bit carried away by his illogical comments though
> not a big deal. I should have honored his ego a bit more.
>
mags and been asking people for some background on him (British
understatement, I was under the impression it was dirt digging), sounds
pretty personal to me. The "your fat body may reduce circulation to your
head" quote sounded pretty personal too. Thank heavens you think he's a
great guy, if you
took a dislike to him things might get ugly.
yours
Brian Jones
Jack Gibson-Massachusetts
> > What is my most likely problem?
> Have you got your answers?
> JJ
I've been following the dozens of messages in this string for
sometime. A year or more ago, I quit posting to this NG for reasons
that I will not go into. In recent weeks the info content of posted
messages has improved INMHO.
Back to the subject matter! I'm a secret, but great admirer of "Pops"
and his postings and teachings that I've tried to abosorb from his
various books.
Free lip buzzing and a closed lips have worked for me. I'm an old guy
(70+) and became a come-back kid some ten years ago after 40 year off.
No, I'm a trad swing player for the most part of late 1920's -
1960's. Pop's written and posted teachings have let me achieve more
than I hoped for.
I play as required in some six nonprofessional big bands 4th thru lead
and love the jazz chair (2nd!) where I can do the ad-lib solos and use
a three octave range if needed. Most of the playing is from C-D''.
Application of Pop's material helped me.
Free lip buzzing together with 5-6 weekly rehearsals and the
performances that amateur territoral bands do in my area help me to
keep my endurance and range. The past month because of my wife's
illness, I am unable to pickup the horn at home. Free lip buzzing has
helped to keep me in shape. I translate the free buzz directly into a
Shilke 15a4a MP with no difficulty and with some pressure.
So it works for my humble needs, and I'd urge come-back players to try
it not for a few weeks, but as a habit. By the way, maybe its the
ultrapure lamp oil that I've used for several years! Whatever works
for you, but there are no magic mp's, horns, methods or whatever that
I've found. Just perseverance!
Jack - Massachusetts
William D. Rowe
folks who could free-buzz their range. Free buzzing is, at best, a
callisthenic exercise - like a football player who works out with weights.
The football player does not lift weights on the football field during the
game, but by lifting weights away from the game, he is stronger on the
field. If free buzzing helps to make your embouchure stronger, add it to
your routine. If it doesn't help you, don't do it. Curt should not change
his embouchure solely for the reason that he cannot free buzz with his
current embouchure.
"William E. Graham" <we...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:HvZ68.6952$Ri2.22584@rwcrnsc54...
jazz...@hotmail.com
the merciful silence.
Brian Jones <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> Hello Joe (or Ken)
Doc
>
>
> Free lip buzzing and a closed lips have worked for me. I'm an old guy
> (70+) and became a come-back kid some ten years ago after 40 year off.
I still can't go along with the free buzz stuff but I applaud you on
your triumphant return to the horn! That's fantastic, I hope many
follow your example.