Lacquer vs. Silver vs. Nickel Plate - Opinions???
robot
I'm considering plating it silver or nickel.
Does anyone have any opinions on the sonic changes this would have?
In other words, how different would the some instrument sound in
lacquer, silver, or nickel plate?
And, if anyone knows:
Silver and brass (unlacquered) will tarnish - does nickel have any
upkeep?
Will a nickel plated horn sound much different than a silver plated one?
Is there a big difference in the way a silver and a nickel plate looks?
Thanks!
Jim Donaldson
>In other words, how different would the some instrument
>sound in lacquer, silver, or nickel plate?
For the classic study in horn finishes, take a gander at:
Findings on the three different finishes of instruments by Renold Schilke
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Brass%20Clinic.html#Finishes
>...does nickel have any upkeep?
Nickel plate tarnishes. If it is not polished and lacquered (like brass) it
turns a soft dull gray color. Most people don't care for that much, though it
looks kind of cool with on a tarnished brass horn, like if you were to leave
your Strad, which has nickel silver outer slide tubes, raw and let it tarnish.
The drawback to nickel finish is that it is essentially like lacquered
brass--the lacquer wears off over time and the horns starts to look splotchy.
>Will a nickel plated horn sound much different than a silver
>plated one?
Unless you leave the nickel plating unlacquered (in which case it wold sound
similar to a silver plated one), it will sound more like the lacquered brass
horn because of the thickness of the lacquer which has a dampening effect (or
'deadening' effect if you believe Mr. Schilke).
To summarize: raw brass, silver plate, and unlacquered nickel plate will sound
essentially the same; lacquered brass and lacquered nickel plate will sound the
same, though different from the raw or plated horns.
>Is there a big difference in the way a silver and a nickel plate >looks?
Yeah, I think so. Lacquered nickel looks like a chrome car bumper, unlacquered
nickel looks like an old tin can, silver looks like your Auntie Gertrude's
sterling tea service.
Jim Donaldson
Denver Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
The Schilke Loyalist
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke
Bookman
Constellation has never been polished for tarnish, just a few fingerprints
here and there. As for your Bach strad, I have never seen or heard of anyone
plating their strad nickel. There's probably a reason for this, but I don't
have it. If I were you, I would get the horn stripped, polished and
relacquered. Supposedly lacquered horns have a darker sound than thwe silver
plated horns. I think Nickel plated horns sound better than anything, but I
wouldn't bother getting the strad nickel plated. Who nickel plates
trumpets???
In article <39507268...@earthlink.net>,
robot <ro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have an older Bach Stradivarius trumpet that is lacquered brass, and
> I'm considering plating it silver or nickel.
>
> Does anyone have any opinions on the sonic changes this would have?
> In other words, how different would the some instrument sound in
> lacquer, silver, or nickel plate?
>
> And, if anyone knows:
> Silver and brass (unlacquered) will tarnish - does nickel have any
> upkeep?
> Will a nickel plated horn sound much different than a silver plated one?
>
> Is there a big difference in the way a silver and a nickel plate looks?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
--
Michael Bookman Jr.
Lead trumpet Myhouse Bigband
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
donovanbankhead
"Bookman" <mwb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8iqnkd$ale$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In my opinion, I would pick a nickel plated horn over anything. My old
Conn
> Constellation has never been polished for tarnish, just a few fingerprints
> here and there
Your old Conn Connstellation isn't plated. It's made out of nickel.
--
Donovan Bankhead
UMI District Manager
Donovan...@msn.com
http://www.trumpetplayer.net/
Scott Stephens
donovanbankhead <donovan...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:e1lvX282$GA.420@cpmsnbbsa08...
>
> "Bookman" <mwb...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8iqnkd$ale$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In my opinion, I would pick a nickel plated horn over anything. My old
> Conn
> > Constellation has never been polished for tarnish, just a few
fingerprints
> > here and there
>
> Your old Conn Connstellation isn't plated. It's made out of nickel.
>
>
What's the difference between something made out of nickel and something
plated in it? Does nickel react with brass or something? Why would a solid
nickel something not tarnish, but a nickel plated would?
Scott Stephens
Donovan Bankhead
> >
> >
>
> What's the difference between something made out of nickel and something
> plated in it? Does nickel react with brass or something? Why would a
solid
> nickel something not tarnish, but a nickel plated would?
Actually, I mis-spoke. The old Connstellations were made out of brass, and
then nickel-plated.
As to why it makes a difference: Nickel is more dense then brass, and gives
a much darker tone then brass.
--
Donovan Bankhead
Donovan...@msn.com
http://www.trumpetplayer.net/
jhen...@my-deja.com
horns out there. There is a copper-zinc-nickel alloy used in brass
instrument construction, commonly called "nickel silver" or, more
rarely, "German silver." Unlacquered nickel silver readily tarnishes to
a dull silver color, while nickel plate resists tarnish quite well.
-John Hensley
"Donovan Bankhead" <donovan...@msn.com> wrote:
> > What's the difference between something made out of nickel and
something
> > plated in it? Does nickel react with brass or something? Why would
a
> solid
> > nickel something not tarnish, but a nickel plated would?
>
> Actually, I mis-spoke. The old Connstellations were made out of
brass, and
> then nickel-plated.
>
> As to why it makes a difference: Nickel is more dense then brass, and
gives
> a much darker tone then brass.
>
> --
> Donovan Bankhead
> Donovan...@msn.com
> http://www.trumpetplayer.net/
>
>
M Magers
Connstellation cornet and the bell actually appears to be that high
copper alloy Conn called coprion under the nickel. The bells of the
trumpets were apparently yellow brass.
Random thought: Does anybody but me remember the Buffalo Nickel?
Donovan Bankhead wrote:
>
> > > Your old Conn Connstellation isn't plated. It's made out of nickel.
> > >
....
Dr. Trumpet
<donovan...@msn.com> wrote:
> As to why it makes a difference: Nickel is more dense then brass, and gives
> a much darker tone then brass.
>
My Olds Studio with the nickel bell seems to be much brighter than a super or a
recording. I don't know whether to attribute that to the nickel bell or to a
difference that is not as apparent. One thing is for sure: Olds knew what he
was doing when he made some of these horns. They are superb!
AL
Alan Rouse
I think that can be attributed to the design of the tapered portions of the
horn, rather than the material. IMO they used different materials as a
marketing gimmick, since the things that REALLY matter can't be seen.
Although, the nickel bell is admittedly more durable.
Mike & Robin Osterberg
People seem to get wind instruments mixed up with string instruments. Body
composition is very important in strings, since the string, once in motion,
imparts energy from the string through the bridge to the rest of the body,
and there's where the sound comes from.
In wind instruments, however, it's the air column that's vibrating: NOT the
instrument itself. The length and contours of the tubing determine what can
be done with the "buzz" we send through the mouthpiece. When one says,
"Silver makes a brighter sound" or "Lacquer soaks up the higher harmonics,"
I just want to vomit in their faces! Well, not really, but their ignorance
is indeed a crying shame. The color of paint on a can of beans doesn't
change the flavor of the beans, does it??????
I've beaten my head against the wall trying to get my musical colleagues to
"see the light," but to no avail, too often... Wake up, folks!
"Alan Rouse" <alan...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8m96u7$nbb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Paul Widner
study of matter and energy? If ya paint something is WILL make a
difference! Why? Because your adding mass! Think a little bit before you
make blanket statements......
PaulW
Mike & Robin Osterberg <moste...@kearney.net> wrote in message
news:GWsj5.1099$rL3.2...@den-news1.rmi.net...
Mike & Robin Osterberg
before I speak. Specifically, fluid mechanics. Are you adding mass to the
air column, or to the air column container? What vibrates--the air column
or the horn? If my horn is vibrating so much that I have no control over
it, whoa... The horn doesn't make the sound--the vibrating air does, as a
person should doubtlessly know. If I stick an air compressor hose up to the
horn and let 90 psi go into it, what will it do? If I buzz into it, does
that sound any different? You bet it does... I had control over that tone.
Tell me this, then: how come I can make my old Yamaha student line sound
just as bright as my CG Benge? With a little work on the "human" side of
the equation (i.e., embouchure, air delivery, and mouthpiece selection), we
have much more control than we think we have. Of course, I choose to play
the Benge more often because it's more free-blowing and has better
intonation, but that's because it was crafted much more carefully as far as
bore and bell flare (physics, as you refer to it) are concerned, and tone
quality is up to me. I have to work on my tone quality, just like everybody
else, and I don't depend on the horn for it.
Thanks, and give this some thought...
Mike
"Paul Widner" <paul...@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
news:sov4qlo...@corp.supernews.com...
Paul Widner
sound then the horn, even the MP has more to do with the sound then the
horn it self, but you and I both know that if you have a crappy horn that
no matter how good you can sound, that on the crappy horn you will sound
crappy. I have a old King horn that sounds horrible but if I put the same
MP into a Bach Strat instantly you and I both with instantly sound better.
The horn does make a difference.
PaulW
Mike & Robin Osterberg <moste...@kearney.net> wrote in message
news:CrNj5.1173$rL3.2...@den-news1.rmi.net...
Mike & Robin Osterberg
silk purses...
You are also on the money with the MP thing and the human element. I hope
you would agree that it would be so easy for players to "blame" the
instrument for their own inadequacies, but we know better, don't we?
Thanks for "pushing my hot button" and making me think more about things.
Keep on screamin'...
Musically yours,
Mike
"Paul Widner" <paul...@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
news:sp1j3p1...@corp.supernews.com...
Overloaf
i can tell a gold schilke s-42 form a silver one blindfolded every time. the
gold speaks better and gold doesn't tarnish and looks better anyway
john reid
new orleans