Fourth Grade Brass Suggestions Needed....
cr...@earthlink.net
music teacher if there is
any instrument that the band needs more. He said they always need
brass, specifically
trombone. The are always overloaded with flutes, clarinets and alto
saxes. Last year
he had 8 kids in percussion but only needed 3.
I was thinking of getting my old cornet restored for him to try, or
take the chance at letting him use my brand new trumpet, a basic Yamaha
student model.
I mentioned the trombone to him and he contorted his face.
I know it would be easier and probably a bit more fun it he could play
what interested him
rather than playing what the band needs, especially when I am just
exposing him to music for the first time. What is best for him or best
for the overall band is a question I'll need to deal with.
I know nothing about the bone. Anyone here double on it who could
offer some info as to its
difficulty in learning? Compared to a trumpet/cornet?
Anyone ever start off playing a flugelhorn?
One thing that concerns me with a trombone is that when first
learning/being exposed to music you obviously want to play the melody.
I wonder how his interest will stay when he gets
to play half and whole notes instead??
I'd like to try a few instruments out on him this summer, with the
usual music store 3 month minimum rental plans so he would not be
caught cold when band starts up again in September. And its quite a
challenge to find a rental when school starts!
Thx all - Craig
Dave Stephens
switching to a larger instrument, like trumpet or trombone, @ 10 or 12, if
he wants to.
Dave
<cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1149795126....@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
cr...@earthlink.net
thinking of
another instrument that is easier to handle?
Craig
Dave Stephens
Dave
<cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1149801548....@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
cr...@earthlink.net
valves are frozen with decades of who knows what.
Craig
Dave Stephens
something worth $50 in playing condition.
Dave
<cr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1149804839....@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
bigtiny
they are interested in, but hey, how do they know what they're
interested in when they've never played before? =:-)
In your son's case, I would recommend he start out on cornet if he is
more attracted to that than the trombone. Frequently elementary school
band directors will look to get larger children to play trombone
because one of the problems a youngster has with the instrument is
reaching all of the slide positions. Being more physically developed
can also help with the need to push air through the instrument.
I would not recommend a 70 year cornet, or your trumpet. Most local
music stores have rental programs that you can participate in until you
know the kid wants to continue.
One more thing....if there's a particular instrument that your kid
REALLY wants to play....get him that, no matter HOW many they've
already got. What's most important is supporting his interest and
involvement in music, not worrying about the logistics of the band
program....
bigtiny
cr...@earthlink.net
>
> One more thing....if there's a particular instrument that your kid
> REALLY wants to play....get him that, no matter HOW many they've
> already got. What's most important is supporting his interest and
> involvement in music, not worrying about the logistics of the band
> program....
>
> bigtiny
the middle school had their big year ending concert last night and I
saw for real what the teacher was talking about. rows and rows of
flutes and clarinets. I know it would mean more to him if he could play
what he wanted...I wonder how many of the 11 year old kids there
actually want to play the bass clarinet???
And trying to get an 8 yr old to make a decision like this is difficult
when there attention
span is quite limited, unless of course you are talking about a
GameCube... :-(
Craig
Dale Lash
they are forced to play by a band instructor, they are not going to stick
with it and you'll be out all the money and they will be out all the time
wasted.
--
Dale Lash
"bigtiny" <keith....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149865962.2...@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
El Lippo aka Allegro
wrote:
>
>One more thing....if there's a particular instrument that your kid
>REALLY wants to play....get him that, no matter HOW many they've
>already got. What's most important is supporting his interest and
>involvement in music, not worrying about the logistics of the band
>program....
>
>bigtiny
Amen to that! And right off the bat, find a private teacher for the
kid rather than school sponsored lessons. While in many schools, their
music programs are excellent, most school systems are under the budget
ax and the music program becomes sacrificial lamb #1. Hence if any
lessons are offered at all, they become a production line offering.
Department heads use this as leverage where in order to fill the band
with the less 'glamorous' instruments, and to become eligible for
instrumental lessons the kids must take up the 'clunkers' like
sousaphones and baritone horns and serve in that capacity in the band.
While I look back with fondness on my high school band days, there are
many other avenues such as community bands and kid bands that work out
in garages and basements that kids can later on cherish as a basis of
their musical growth and experience. Unfortunately, high school bands
concentrate more on the visual stuff more than the quality of the
music (although in this case many bands can be good). However, too
much of the choreography might cause the young player to develop bad
playing habits that might prove to difficult or even impossible to
overcome in future years. It's better to start the kids off right and
have them take lessons from private teachers. A good teacher will
inspire and guide kids without succumbing to public school politics.
As the young student progresses, he or she will find their own way in
their own musical world. And dollars to donuts, if the kid shows
promise, the band director will beg him or her to become a band member
be it there's a zillion other trumpet players in the band. While I
might appear to be a killjoy, there rings true this reality. There are
lots of great instrumentalists that never belonged to public school
bands. Where there is a will, there is a way.
BOB
William Graham
"Dale Lash" <dale...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:KvVng.8249$Wl.5266@trnddc01...
>I second what bigtiny says. If your kid is not interested in the
>instrument
> they are forced to play by a band instructor, they are not going to stick
> with it and you'll be out all the money and they will be out all the time
> wasted.
>
purpose....It's not to sound good, and have a well balanced school
band....It's to EDUCATE the kids. That's what the parents are paying their
hard-earned tax dollars for........
El Lippo aka Allegro
<we...@comcast.net> wrote:
Snipped
>It's to EDUCATE the kids. That's what the parents are paying their
>hard-earned tax dollars for........
>
From what I see, our hard-earned tax dollars are going up in smoke.
Too many kids can't add a simple column of numbers in their heads,
find their location on a map, or speak a three sentence paragraph
without using the words 'UMM', 'YA KNOW, YA KNOW', 'AWESOME', and /or
the infamous four letter F word. While we pay for state of the art
equipment in schools to keep in step with progress, little emphasis is
placed on that which is basic. What's going to happen if another
Katrina strikes and knocks out the power where computers become
non-functional?
BOB
kitekrazy
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:32:49 -0700, "William Graham"
> <we...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Snipped
>
>>It's to EDUCATE the kids. That's what the parents are paying their
>>hard-earned tax dollars for........
>>
>
> From what I see, our hard-earned tax dollars are going up in smoke.
> Too many kids can't add a simple column of numbers in their heads,
> find their location on a map, or speak a three sentence paragraph
> without using the words 'UMM', 'YA KNOW, YA KNOW', 'AWESOME', and /or
> the infamous four letter F word.
Sounds like a statement that usually equates into removing school
music programs. I never could see how music programs take up much of a
budget. They really don't. Yet you see in schools all these
"specialists" that are suppose to help these kids from being so stupid
in reading and math. They make more than teachers.
Most kids are not very creative and this is because the Arts are removed.
While we pay for state of the art
> equipment in schools to keep in step with progress, little emphasis is
> placed on that which is basic. What's going to happen if another
> Katrina strikes and knocks out the power where computers become
> non-functional?
> BOB
I think the reason for the above is kids and even adults have made
themselves victims of technology. Who needs to add, read or write anymore?
If kids can't read they sure as hell don't need to be using a computer.
William Graham
"kitekrazy" <kite...@sbcglobal.net.nospam> wrote in message
news:Jedog.55010$fb2....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> El Lippo aka Allegro wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:32:49 -0700, "William Graham"
>> <we...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Snipped
>>
>>>It's to EDUCATE the kids. That's what the parents are paying their
>>>hard-earned tax dollars for........
>>
>> From what I see, our hard-earned tax dollars are going up in smoke.
>> Too many kids can't add a simple column of numbers in their heads,
>> find their location on a map, or speak a three sentence paragraph
>> without using the words 'UMM', 'YA KNOW, YA KNOW', 'AWESOME', and /or
>> the infamous four letter F word.
>
> Sounds like a statement that usually equates into removing school music
> programs. I never could see how music programs take up much of a budget.
> They really don't. Yet you see in schools all these "specialists" that are
> suppose to help these kids from being so stupid in reading and math. They
> make more than teachers.
>
> Most kids are not very creative and this is because the Arts are removed.
>
for the school system through gate receipts, and this extra money can be
used to fund arts programs such as music. But when they start using the same
techniques used by the athletics programs to operate the music program, then
they are giving up education in favor of a system that could perhaps make
money in some other universe, but certainly doesn't make money in this one.
It's too bad that the school play or concert doesn't draw in the thousands
of spectators that would enable it to fund all the extra curricular
programs, but the fact is, it doesn't. So they should either abandon these
programs altogether, or operate them at a loss in order to educate the kids,
which, after all, is what the schools were originally meant to do. Certainly
they shouldn't operate them as though they were making money when its
obvious that they aren't.
El Lippo aka Allegro
<we...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Most kids are not very creative and this is because the Arts are removed.
>>
>The justification used by athletic programs is that they really make money
>for the school system through gate receipts, and this extra money can be
>used to fund arts programs such as music.
Nearly 50 years ago when I was in the high school band that performed
at events (mainly football games), these athletic events had a gate
charge. Never was any of this money funneled to the band. To this day,
I don't know where the money went. How odd it is that each year, the
football, hockey, baseball, and other teams got new uniforms, but
never did I see the team members out on street corners downtown or
going from house to house in order to raise funds for their uniforms
like we band members had to do. While the jocks wore professional
grade uniforms, the best we could afford were generally ill fitting
Army surplus uniforms. In my town, high school athletics was 'big'
while music and the other arts were considered to be frivolous and
unnecessary. Thankfully, things have gotten much better in later years
because those of us who got the short end of the stick while in high
school, now are the parents of kids going to the same school. Both my
wife and I were very active members of the 'Friends Of Music' and
fought side by side with the kids to improve a most dysfunctional
music program that we had to live with when we were kids. What's
ironic about the whole thing is that despite the jocks being of the
elite and the bandies on the bottom of the totem pole, some 50 years
later, many of us in the band are still playing (and playing well)
while the majority of the jocks are hard put to walk more than 50
feet, never mind doing a 50 yard dash to the goal post.
BOB
kitekrazy
>So they should either abandon these programs altogether, or operate them at a loss in order to educate the kids,
> which, after all, is what the schools were originally meant to do. Certainly
> they shouldn't operate them as though they were making money when its
> obvious that they aren't.
>
>
Bravo! Amazing the amount of bullshit that is in public education.
William Graham
"El Lippo aka Allegro" <beaglebob6192@(nospam)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nf23a2ppdd96lmb4a...@4ax.com...
This may have been true in your case, and probably is true in lots of cases,
but the justification for not letting little Joey "all thumbs" Jones on the
football team was, and still is, that the team can only draw in the big
crowds, (and therefore the big gate receipts) if it wins, and it can't win
if the players are like little Joey Jones. IOW, they were not there to
educate children, but to make money. The choir and band, however, can't use
that excuse, so they should have to put up with little Joey, or his
equivalent in music........Its not their business to be the best school band
in the county, or in the USA, but to teach the most music to the most kids,
and that is a very different thing......
El Lippo aka Allegro
And it gets worse by the day because individual towns and cities that
once had a certain degree of autonomy are now under the thumb of state
run agencies where people (largely ex teachers) are more interested in
securing a long term, high paying, cushy job rather than being in the
trenches using their training to provide quality education. Why get
their hands dirty by being teachers when they can be bureaucrats and
be a protected species as guaranteed by the politicians who also
prefer not to get their hands dirty by doing what they were once
trained to do. The end result falls on the shoulders of the kids who
are getting shortchanged with glitter and glamour rather than a viable
and basic education, as well as the taxpayers that must pay for it
often at the added expense due to tax overrides.
BOB
El Lippo aka Allegro
<we...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>This may have been true in your case, and probably is true in lots of cases,
>but the justification for not letting little Joey "all thumbs" Jones on the
>football team was, and still is, that the team can only draw in the big
>crowds, (and therefore the big gate receipts) if it wins, and it can't win
>if the players are like little Joey Jones. IOW, they were not there to
>educate children, but to make money.
It's been that way since time immemorial and will remain that way
until the end of time.
> The choir and band, however, can't use
>that excuse, so they should have to put up with little Joey, or his
>equivalent in music........Its not their business to be the best school band
>in the county, or in the USA, but to teach the most music to the most kids,
>and that is a very different thing......
>
But of course it's a different thing. Athletics as we know it is of a
different culture than that of music or other arts. The public in
general favor a situation where there is a win / lose scenario, and
that's where they'll gravitate to rather than to go to a concert or
art exhibition where there are no designated 'winners' or 'losers'. As
human nature dictates, besides the visceral and mental excitement that
sporting events offer, there is the factor that much betting on the
results of games is common. One can't usually bet on the results of a
concert. The bottom line for me is that I favor and put up with the
Joey 'all thumbs' Jones of the world since I was of that genre', and
will support his culture rather than the 'blood for money' culture
favored by the masses. Besides the 3 R's. music and the arts is basic
as well.
BOB
El Lippo aka Allegro
<we...@comcast.net> wrote:
Bill, after all that has been said and done on this particular thread,
I wonder if the poor dude who originated it finally got his question
answered - What instrument should his kid play?
BOB
kitekrazy
I guess no elected official from D.C. has bothered to notice that
since the 1920's when federal government got involved in education
there's been a steady decline.
How bad can the state and federal government ruin education to the
point a person would rather be a checker at Wal Mart than be a teacher?
El Lippo aka Allegro
And they'll get more respect working at Wal Mart than they do being
teachers. It's a crying shame!!!!!!!!!
Playing trumpet was only a sideline job for me where my career for 31
years was a Postal Service letter carrier. There were more degree
laden people doing the same job as me, and tossed their teaching
careers in favor of putting up with the bureaucratic bullshit that
teachers have to put up with today. I guess that for them, it's better
to be chased down the street by a dog than to be chased by a lawyer
and hauled into court, all because he or she looked cross eyed at one
of their darling students.
I'd love to have been a teacher as a career. While not doing it full
time, I do teach stained glass crafting at adult education class
sponsored by my town. I get great satisfaction by doing it and better
yet, the adult education classes are run by the Recreational Dept.
rather than the School Department where there's no bullshit. However,
to be a regular teacher, I shy away from that aspiration. The reason
'why' is because of the inept lard ass bureaucrats and politicians
that spread their form of cancer.
BOB
William Graham
Yeah.....It's too bad that the average American appreciates somebody who
weighs 300 lbs and can run the hundred in 10 seconds flat more than somebody
who can play a classical sonata all the way through without missing a note.
But be that as it may, what's really too bad is that we have let the 300 lb
runner take education time away from the sonata player.....Our schools were
not designed to be money making institutions, and when we let them do that,
we are compromising their ability to educate our kids.
William Graham
>
Bill, after all that has been said and done on this particular thread,
> I wonder if the poor dude who originated it finally got his question
> answered - What instrument should his kid play?
>
> BOB
I think we pretty well told him to let his kid play exactly what he wants to
play, and not to cave in to the desires of the band director.....I hope we
conveyed that message, anyway....:^)
El Lippo aka Allegro
<we...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Yeah.....It's too bad that the average American appreciates somebody who
>weighs 300 lbs and can run the hundred in 10 seconds flat more than somebody
>who can play a classical sonata all the way through without missing a note.
>
Now if the 300 pounder were to do a body slam and knock the performer
down to the floor, you'd see a sellout crowd.
St. John Smythe
> down to the floor, you'd see a sellout crowd.
Hmmm...Kenny G...Hulk Hogan...
--
St. John
Don't knock President Fillmore. He kept us out of Vietnam.