reverse leadpipe?
Frederic Wenzel
I constantly read about trumpets with a "reverse leadpipe".
But I have no clue what this is useful for??
Can anyone tell me in what way a "reverse leadpipe" differs from standard
and why this is better / worse than a "normal" leadpipe?
Thank you
Fred
Catzz66
>But I have no clue what this is useful for??
The upper slide tube slides outside (rather than inside) the leadpipe.
Theoretically, there is less turbulence with this setup. Lots of brands have
this option. Some, like Schilke Bb and C, are all made that way.
Lawrence V. Cipriani
I asked my teacher [a student of Bill Adam] about this once. He said
it's just marketing nonsense and doesn't make any difference in sound.
Frederic Wenzel
> >But I have no clue what this is useful for??
>
> The upper slide tube slides outside (rather than inside) the leadpipe.
Thanks! I've already seen once this type of leadpipe but I didn't know that
it's called "reverse built"...
Hm. Yet, IMHO this not significantly important for good trumpet playing -
but obviously it sells :)
Greetings
Fred
Spencer Hager Jr.
you a slight bump where the air rides over the end of the slide. With a
reverse tuning slide, the main slide will assemble (slide) around the
leadpipe & then you don't have the exposed end of the main slide in the
airflow path. When it comes to the better/worse question - it is my
belief that it is a matter of opinion. The reverse slide could be less
restrictive than a standard set-up but whether it gives a freer blow
depends on many variables other than just the type of leadpipe/slide
design. Things like the taper of the leadpipe, bore size, bell shape &
bore to valve port relationships have a profound effect on how a trumpet
feels when you play it. Then you get into the mp variables & your
approach to playing the horn (open/closed lip setting & air management)
& well in my estimation the reverse leadpipe is a small matter. To
others it is a big deal. That is my take on your questions & I hope it
gives you a good start for other question you might have.
Spencer
Catzz66
>it's just marketing nonsense and doesn't make any difference in sound
As much as I respect Bill Adam or anybody else, I would trust my own
impressions and not just take somebody else's word for it.
Catzz66
>you a slight bump where the air rides over the end of the slide. With a
>reverse tuning slide, the main slide will assemble (slide) around the
>leadpipe & then you don't have the exposed end of the main slide in the
>airflow path. When it comes to the better/worse question - it is my
>belief that it is a matter of opinion. The reverse slide could be less
>restrictive than a standard set-up but whether it gives a freer blow
>depends on many variables other than just the type of leadpipe/slide
>design. Things like the taper of the leadpipe, bore size, bell shape &
>bore to valve port relationships have a profound effect on how a trumpet
>feels when you play it. Then you get into the mp variables & your
>approach to playing the horn (open/closed lip setting & air management)
>& well in my estimation the reverse leadpipe is a small matter. To
>others it is a big deal. That is my take on your questions & I hope it
>gives you a good start for other question you might have.
Several companies like Bach and Yamaha sell both versions. Having read
Spencer's excellent comments above, if you are still curious, try it out for
yourself and see what you think.
Lawrence V. Cipriani
Yes, point very well taken, and I agree to a point. Look, I pay my
excellent teacher $30/hr for advice, and lessons, to save me time and
hassle and I'll take his word for it. Of course you should make your
own impressession if you feel the need to do so. I may have misquoted
exactly what he said, but the essence of it was the diff between normal
and reverse lead pipe was not significant, and not worth the extra money.
That's good enough for me.
Catzz66
>excellent teacher $30/hr for advice, and lessons, to save me time and
>hassle and I'll take his word for it. Of course you should make your
>own impressession if you feel the need to do so. I may have misquoted
>exactly what he said, but the essence of it was the diff between normal
>and reverse lead pipe was not significant, and not worth the extra money.
>That's good enough for me.
I was not speaking of you, specifically, just making a general comment that
people should not just rely on the experts. The experts (like R. Schilke and
your teacher) in this case come to two different conclusions.
I don't think there is much of a price difference these days, though years ago,
there might have been. There are so many variables in horn construction that a
person would have to try horns that were virtually identical except for the
leadpipe to really be able to tell the difference very well. Compare a Bach 43
vs a Bach 43LR, for example. Comparing a standard Bach 43 and a Schilke (with
reverse lp) probably would not be all that helpful. I have played both kinds
of setups and do not have a preference, personally.
keng2
advantage of a reverse lead pipe and as I remember, his answer was "it
brings the 5th partial in better tune"
Ken
"Catzz66" <cat...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Mark
the Bach 180S37 with the reverse leadpipe. I tried both the standard 180S37
and the LR. IMHO, the LR did blow a little more free and seemed to be
slightly more responsive around G, A, B, C, D, E above the staff. I just
wish I could play up there more to take advantage of it :)
"Frederic Wenzel" <p...@magenson.de> wrote in message
news:ao4429$vhn$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
DHoff56012
times.
David
Ed Grant
--
Ed Grant
"DHoff56012" <dhoff...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Rocket1
It turns 180 degrees, therefore you would l have a forward tailpipe.
George Graham
GG
Jon Trimble
a larger horn this is the choice for you. For myself, I prefer the reverse
and here's why. I blow!!! Maybe too much but at any rate, the horn seems
to work better with me when I have the reverse. I like "almost NO"
resistance. It just makes a free'r blow in short. Hope this helps,
Jon Trimble
"Frederic Wenzel" <p...@magenson.de> wrote in message
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Jon Trimble
"keng2" <ke...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
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Jim Donaldson
All Schilke trumpets have reverse leadpipes. Want to know why?
R. Schilke's article on Leader Pipe and Its Function
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Leader%20Pipe.html
Read the real thing.
Jim Donaldson
Denver Colorado
JFDon...@aol.com
The Schilke Loyalist
http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke
Peter Bond
A reverse leadpipe "reverses" the inner and outer tubing where the
main tuning slide meets the leadpipe. The resulting longer leadpipe
will move the "discontinuity" (where the inner and outer tubing
overlap) further down the horn, with the bore stepping up in diameter
rather than stepping down. In the case of a Bach, the front bell brace
has to be set further back to accomodate the moving outer slide (this
leaves more of the bell unsupported. Also, one of the two
characteristic parallel vertical braces is eliminated.
My own experience playing the reverse pipe set-up (ML 37 and 43)is
that the horn vibrates more and feels "freer" or "buzzier." It is IMO
a little "brighter" sounding, with less "weight" of tone than the
conventional model. I happen to like both. For orchestral work where I
want weight and blend, the standard configuration is preferable. For
more commercial playing, the reverse set-up creates a more brilliant,
penetrating tone. Neither model is so radical-sounding that it won't
work in the opposite situations, but that is the way I perceive the
difference.
Why the reverse leadpipe instrument sounds different is a result of
all of these factors (and others too, I'm sure).
I have learned that virtually anything that you move or change on a
trumpet will affect the tone, feel, and/or pitch.
I hope this helps,
Peter Bond
Metropolitan Opera Orchestra
Jon Trimble
lot different. They both do the same thing with a very slight change. It's
supposed to be freer blowing I guess. Same thing can come about if you go
to a lrager horn. Comes down to what YOU want but nothing more then that in
my opinion.
Jon Trimble
"Peter Bond" <trump...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d1a94c4f.02101...@posting.google.com...
Dr. Trumpet
"Jon Trimble" <trum...@tablerock.net> wrote:
The biggest difference for me is the pitch control, especially on a C or smaller
trumpet. I notice less difference on a Bb than on the smaller horns. The
longer a leadpipe section can run in taper, the better the control of pitch will
be. Malone made all of his custom leadpipes (that he fit to C trumpets) as
reversed leadpipes for a reason, as does Monette and many other fine makers.
The added length of leadpipe on a C trumpet makes the partials in the E/Eb/D
range better in tune, and the whole horn a little more focused and in tune.
The instrument doesn't have a bulge at the point where the tuning slide is
pulled, and is a continuous bore, which make the horn a little more conical to
boot!
AL
jan
dr_trpt-spamfree-D6...@news.iquest.net...
If the bulge is large, I recommend the boxer.
Catzz66
>lot different. They both do the same thing with a very slight change. It's
>supposed to be freer blowing I guess. Same thing can come about if you go
>to a lrager horn. Comes down to what YOU want but nothing more then that in
>my opinion.
My opinion is that it provides a slight but favorable change. I have tried it
on the same horn with two different leadpipes and tuning slides, and I
preferred the reverse leadpipe. It was a Bach 43 and the difference was
noticable. It was set up with the reverse, but the former owner had saved the
old parts which I hooked up with duct tape. It blew a little smoother with the
reverse pipe. If I was in the market for a horn and it came with a reverse
leadpipe, I would sure want to check it out.
Russ Schmidt
should I then have a trombone venturi soldered onto my trumper tuning slide
:)
russ schmidt
"Jon Trimble" <trum...@tablerock.net> wrote in message
news:3dabc9a2$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Donald L. Winters
smaller
> trumpet. I notice less difference on a Bb than on the smaller horns. The
> longer a leadpipe section can run in taper, the better the control of
pitch will
> be. Malone made all of his custom leadpipes (that he fit to C trumpets)
as
> reversed leadpipes for a reason, as does Monette and many other fine
makers.
> The added length of leadpipe on a C trumpet makes the partials in the
E/Eb/D
> range better in tune, and the whole horn a little more focused and in
tune.
>
> The instrument doesn't have a bulge at the point where the tuning slide is
> pulled, and is a continuous bore, which make the horn a little more
conical to
> boot!
>
> AL
Al,
This is the first response to make sense to me. As you know, I have a
reverse leadpipe on my Monette and Callet Cs and have always believed it
improved intonation, but I never understood why or was even sure of the
improvement. As usual, you provide a clear and convincing explanation.
Thanks, Don