Trumpet vs. French Horn
Steven Kahan
First, happy holidays to everyone. Hope the coming new year is a
happy and healthy one.
My question/situation: My daughter has played trumpet for two years
(she is currently 11 1/2, 6th grade). She has played in the school band
as well as taking a weekly private lesson.
Her band teacher has asked her to switch to french horn, as he has
no french horn players now. The school will supply the instrument.
Is this good/bad/indifferent? Any information would be greatly
appreciated as I don't have any experience with this.
ITG Calendar Editor
Steven Kahan <steven...@cox.net> wrote:
It is a major switch. The embouchure to play the horn right is
completely different. 2/3 upper, 1/3 lower verses 50/50 on the trumpet.
Further, the fingering is done with the left hand instead of the right,
and the right hand is positioned in the bell so as to change the sound
of the horn to make it more focused and rich. There are two sides to a
horn, the F and the Bb, so she will eventually need to learn two sets of
fingerings, as well as the assorted alternate fingerings and adjustments
that horn players seem to have to use to make the instrument play close
to in tune.
All in all, the horn and trumpet are different beasts as well, in that
the air flow of the trumpet is a different speed and requires a
different approach than that of the horn.
Please contact me privately if I can be of more help.
Al Lilly
--
Albert L. Lilly III
Calendar Editor, International Trumpet Guild
mailto:cale...@trumpetguild.org
Visit the ITG Calendar at:
http://www.trumpetguild.org/calendar/calendar.htm
rcn
horn vs. trumpet:
1) It is easier to become a top player on horn, as there are generally fewer
of them out there (as her band director clearly knows). This may afford
easier entrance into regional and state bands vs. playing the trumpet.
2) Paradoxically, there are fewer opportunities playing semi-professionally
or professionally as there are fewer venues groups that need horn vs.
trumpet (such as jazz, pop and club date bands).
If she doesn't become serious about music, these two points are irrelevent.
"Steven Kahan" <steven...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3E029D2C...@cox.net...
Tim Priddy
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 23:31:40 -0500, Steven Kahan wrote
(in message <3E029D2C...@cox.net>):
While french horns are a plus in middle school bands, I think it is a shame
that the teacher wishes her to switch, when she takes private lessons on
trumpet every week.
We always looked on french horns as "failed Trumpeters" in High School Band.
Most were.
I personally think the french horn emboucure is detrimental to quality lead
trumpet playing--in Jazz bands or Concert bands.
Plus, EVENTUALLY you have to buy the horn. These things "ain't cheap".
Just my 3 cents.
Regards,
--
J. Timothy Priddy
trum...@chartermi.net
Lead, Ride, Side--All Styles--Educator, Arranger, Sight-Reader
Central Michigan Region
PT
in my modest opinion, my little suggestion is let her takes the choice (even
if she's young).
If she likes playing trumpet why should she change only because of her
teacher needs a horn player ??
I'd like to the occasion to send all my best greatings to everyone. Merry
christmas and a happy new year.
PT.
Eric Bolvin
The important question here is if your daughter is going to continue playing
trumpet while playing horn.
From the tone of your letter, I'm assuming she is. If I am wrong and she
intends to switch permanently to horn, she will have no problems and could
be a fine French hornist. Many great horn players started on trumpet. Heck,
many great drummers started on trumpet too!
Problems can arise when trying to play horn and trumpet. Although the
embouchures can be the same, this is often not the case, especially when
younger, smaller students are involved. She will be forced to play the
French horn at a downward, awkward angle, possibly quite different from the
way she holds the trumpet. Due to the fact that the horn is rested on the
right leg, the horn dictates the angle at which the player must approach it.
You hold a trumpet and can therefore bring it to your lips at any angle that
is comfortable. This is not the case with horn as it is too heavy to hold so
the player has to come to the horn. This is why all French horn players have
a similar embouchure and lip angle; everything points downward. Some trumpet
players also play this way, especially students with overbites.
As a private teacher, I've had students try to double on horn always with
bad results for the trumpet. They do often end up quite good on French horn.
If your daughter were a private student of mine I'd adamantly recommend
against trying to play both horn and trumpet.
I do on the other hand support kids that want to play the Baritone horn or
euphonium. I don't suggest it, but it's not a detriment to trumpet playing
if the kid wants to play in two bands and learn a new axe.
Eb
--
Eric Bolvin
Trumpet, Arranger, Composer, Educator
SF Bay Area
Hear our new CD at
http://www.bolvinmusic.com
http://www.mp3.com/EricBolvin
408.236.2009
"Steven Kahan" <steven...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3E029D2C...@cox.net...
Steven Kahan
is to switch from trumpet (silly me, I thought you could call this a
"horn"), to the french horn (which apparently IS referred to as "horn").
She will now take private lessons on the "horn" and put down the
trumpet.
As a parent, I've already told her that she should not be ashamed and/or
intimidated to tell her band teacher that she prefers the trumpet if
that is in fact how she feels after trying the horn for a while.
I thank you all for your thoughts on the matter. It is nice to know
there is a community of people out there willing to share their
expertise with us neophytes.
Best wishes to all.
Alan
> no french horn players now. The school will supply the instrument.
>
> Is this good/bad/indifferent?
I started on cornet (basically the same experience as starting on
trumpet) in the sixth grade, and played first chair in my band in
sixth and seventh grades. In eight grade, I switched to French horn,
just to try something new. It was fun (hey, playing a slide whistle
would have been fun to me), and I did pretty well, making district
honor band. The down side for me was that most of the horn parts were
quite boring. French horn is a difficult instrument, requiring a
degree of precision and delicate touch far beyond what the trumpet /
cornet requires. Most middle school band music has pretty simple horn
parts, which means it can be boring. When you do get an interesting
part, it might be too hard, or so exposed and risk-prone that it
ceases to be fun.
After a year of horn, I decided that playing first chair trumpet was
more fun, and switched back. Over the years I've found many more
opportunities to play trumpet than I would have had on french horn,
and have never regretted returning to trumpet. Yet I don't think a
year on french horn really hurt me in any way.
OTOH your daughter might love playing horn, and might stick with it.
A fine french horn player is a real luxury, in any good concert band.
If she works hard at it and becomes good, she will be a valuable asset
wherever she plays.
Jay T. Carrigan
I've always liked the sound of the instrument. I never encountered any
embouchure problems. In a concert band setting, I've played both instruments
in the same concert a couple of times, and I once even played a number on
horn in a jazz ensemble.
The biggest problem for me was finding the right notes. The trumpet helps
you, the horn doesn't. You have to think about EVERY note you play, and it
takes (me) quite a bit of practice to get it right. But then when I go back
to trumpet, everything seems so easy!
I prefer to hold the horn off my leg, but when I get tired down it goes.
Putting something like a block of wood under your right foot should solve
any posture problems.
Jay Carrigan change domain to mchsi
In article <atuq1f$2fv$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, EBj...@ix.netcom.com says...
Gary Morrison
classical guitar, and classical saxophone), this past summer I nevertheless
rented a french horn and took lessons to learn more about brasses. I also
ended up buying a flügelhorn to have periodic fun with and remind myself of
what I'd learned.
That being my admittedly limited brass background, I'll mention the usual
wisdom that french horn is a much more complex instrument than the
trumpet. And it's more complex in many senses too. It's construction is
much more involved, especially double horns. You'll immediately see that,
being higher in the harmonic series, you have to have extremely precise
control over lip tension on the horn. Now, I should point out that a good
trumpeter, trombonist, or tuba player has equally good control over lip
tension as a french-horn player. The difference though is that, when
you're down lower in the harmonics, extremely careful control over lip
tension is a question of getting a clean, resonant tone, whereas, when
you're higher in the harmonics, it's the even-more-basic question of just
simply playing the right note!
Speaking in terms of the bigger picture though, I found that the french
horn is to the flügelhorn somewhat like what the bassoon is to an alto
saxophone. Horn and bassoon are more commonly associatedly with classical
music, whereas flügelhorn and saxes are more commonly associated with
jazz. Horn and bassoon are more complicated to play and have a more
complex tone quality than flügelhorn and saxophones, but they are also more
rewarding to play. To me at least, no instrument match the majesty of a
french horn. The horn and bassoon have a much longer and more involved
history than ... well, saxophones at least, but to some degree that's true
of the flügelhorn.
I don't know to what degree price matters, but I suppose it's worth
pointing out that comparable-quality french horns are much more expensive
than trumpets.
funky trumpet
A new thing to me.
I have stared at the back end of a cornet and trumpet for about 43 years.
I have been learning french horn to try and help the struggling horn
section. It is a different animal for sure. I play Trumpet/flugel/Valvebone,
the worlds slowest slide bone, bass trumpet, baritone, and sure, I suck on
all of them equally, but the french horn, that is like driving on ice.
Slotting? I know, I'm lame. Actually the marching french horn is Much easier
to play.
I agree with the posts about french horn being more difficult, and not as
"required" in the general world. And yes, it seems the parts are more
boring.
I would encourage her to stay on trumpet. She'll turn into a classic "type
a" trumpet player. Let her play flugelhorn on the horn parts.
What are the worst twenty minutes in youth sports?
The ride home with the parents.......
Tim Bales
bach37
> 2) Paradoxically, there are fewer opportunities playing semi-professionally
> or professionally as there are fewer venues groups that need horn vs.
I don't know about that. My roommate is an excellent horn player and
gigs all the time with nearby orchestras, brass 5-tet groups, theater
jobs, church jobs, etc. Many more gigs than me. Too many trumpet players
in the area and not enough good horn players.
-S
G or C Elliott
I was forced to play it for a while and march music was nothing more
than playing to the afterbeats or "pecking."
I found the experience boring enough to give up music altogether. It was
like a piano player blocking chords all the time and never getting to
play the melody. Mark me down a "no thanks." Glenn
Roger Bolt
have been converted to play in F (& play the Horn parts - like the
Mellophone does).
The French horn is a very different beast - an orchestral instrument -
wonderful sound if played well.
RBB
"G or C Elliott" <whadaur...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:2817-3E0...@storefull-2236.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Jon Trimble
of trumpet and the band director is in need of french horn. BS dude. Not a
bad thing in the french horn but wouls seek her out a private instructor to
find out more.
Jon Trimble
"Steven Kahan" <steven...@cox.net> wrote in message
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Ed Grant
No...wait....put down your pens and paper, your matches and
flamables....COME ON.... I'M KIDDING! :o)
Seriously...I have a daughter currently in her 3rd year of a B. Mus (perf)
on Horn. She has already recorded, done semi-pro quintet stuff, played 1st
horn in Community Band for years (the last 4 or 5), done a solo with the
local symphony (something called the Richard Strauss Concerto #1), and pit
orchestra in addition to all the university stuff....even covering trombone
parts on horn in jazz band. Absolutely no end of opportunities to play for
her if she chooses to accept it all.
BUT, you are right that most French Horn parts are just helping block out
the beats in marches...but ONLY in marches.
"G or C Elliott" <whadaur...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:2817-3E0...@storefull-2236.public.lawson.webtv.net...
William E. Graham
"Jon Trimble" <trum...@tablerock.net> wrote in message
news:3e043...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> My opinion from whatb I've been thru is this. She has a good
understanding
> of trumpet and the band director is in need of french horn. BS dude.
Not a
> bad thing in the french horn but wouls seek her out a private
instructor to
> find out more.
>
> Jon Trimble
There was a guy in our band who played both. He did pretty well at it.
So it's quite possible to be good at playing both.....
charles schneider
From the Trumpet Kings of the swing era"
http://trumpet.voici.org/
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Eldridge are transcribed and posted in .PDF format. (for free)
Made by by Jacques & Claude Gilbert and the "EJMA Woodwinds Website"
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Charles Schneider
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Bryan Fields
the proper horn embouchure, but then my trumpet embouchure is kinda
weird too. I really enjoyed it and for me it was beneficial to my
trumpet playing because I added an hour to my daily practice, I went
through the Farkas book and spent a lot of time on pedal tones. My tone
and range improved on both instruments. If I could hear a recording of
myself from back then I'd probably hurl, but I had fun.