C trumpet

Karl Morten Dahl

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Apr 26, 2001, 8:39:59 AM4/26/01

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the length (the length the wave can travel) of a B-flat trumpet is 1.46 m.
can anyone give me the length of a c trumpet? is it the same?

thanks!

Karl Morten

mm

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Apr 26, 2001, 12:24:44 PM4/26/01

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No, it is not the same length. It is the tube length that determines
the pitch. I have seen a table but cannot put my finger on it at the
moment.

Brian Moon

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Apr 26, 2001, 1:51:22 PM4/26/01

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Approx: 4 feet for C trumpet. 4.5 for Bb

mm <abl...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:C238BB53402AB04B.6FF19F3C...@lp.airnews.net...

Brian Moon

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Apr 26, 2001, 1:54:34 PM4/26/01

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C trumpet is 8/9 of a Bb trumpet so that should make it 1.298 metres for C.

Karl Morten Dahl

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Apr 27, 2001, 7:23:41 AM4/27/01

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On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:24:44 -0500, mm the <abl...@airmail.net> wrote:
> No, it is not the same length. It is the tube length that determines
> the pitch. I have seen a table but cannot put my finger on it at the
> moment.

thanks!
but I'm confused. I've seen different length mentioned. 130 cm and 146 cm. If
you calculate the 2nd overtone with a length of 146 cm you will get (for a
B-flat trumpet) a frequency of 234,9 Hz which is not a b-flat (should be
233.08 Hz). The tube lenght should be 147.16 cm for a b-flat trumpet
or am I wrong? There could be some correction due to the form of the tube
though. I would be thankful if somebody could help me on this and maybe
refer to a table.

Thanks!

Karl Morten Dahl

>
> Karl Morten Dahl wrote:
>
>> the length (the length the wave can travel) of a B-flat trumpet is 1.46 m.
>> can anyone give me the length of a c trumpet? is it the same?
>>
>>
>

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Pops

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Apr 27, 2001, 9:09:55 AM4/27/01

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You are NOT dealing with a completely cylindrical tube. It has at least
2 tapers (leadpipe and bell). Those shift the nodes toward the
mouthpiece end. The more and larger the tapers the greater the shift.

Information about my trumpet & embouchure books.
http://www.BbTrumpet.com

Best wishes
Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin

Karl Morten Dahl

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Apr 27, 2001, 11:35:27 AM4/27/01

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On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:09:55 -0500 (CDT), 'Pops' the <Bbtr...@webtv.net> wrote:
> You are NOT dealing with a completely cylindrical tube. It has at least
> 2 tapers (leadpipe and bell). Those shift the nodes toward the
> mouthpiece end. The more and larger the tapers the greater the shift.

Yes I was aware of that factor, but I'm using this in a essay I'm writing at the university
and need to know if there are standards are if it varies between 146-148 cm or something.
A reference would be great!

Karl M.

>
> Information about my trumpet & embouchure books.
> http://www.BbTrumpet.com
>
> Best wishes
> Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
>

Toshi Clark

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Apr 27, 2001, 1:17:35 PM4/27/01

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In article <slrn9ej4d...@totem.fix.no>,

k...@nospam.totem.fix.no (Karl Morten Dahl) wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:09:55 -0500 (CDT), 'Pops' the <Bbtr...@webtv.net>
> wrote:
>
> > You are NOT dealing with a completely cylindrical tube. It has at least
> > 2 tapers (leadpipe and bell). Those shift the nodes toward the
> > mouthpiece end. The more and larger the tapers the greater the shift.
>

> Yes I was aware of that factor, but [...]

I think Pops was responding to the poster who (based on calculations for a
cylinder of the length of a Bb trumpet) computed that the fundamental pitch
would not be a concert Bb at all. That said, how can you really measure how long
a trumpet is? Would you measure to an imaginary vertical plane at the end of the
bell?

--
Toshi Clark

William Graham

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Apr 27, 2001, 6:24:21 PM4/27/01

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Yeah.....In my humble opinion, I would say that the
effective length of the instrument is not from the
mouthpiece to the outside edge of the bell. - The effective
length is shorter than that due to the large flare of the
bell. That's why the tuning slide has the capability of
increasing the length another 5 or 6 cm. - Bill Graham

Toshi Clark <spik...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:spiky_dog-F042C...@news.fas.harvard.edu...

Brian Moon

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Apr 27, 2001, 8:17:57 PM4/27/01

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That is if all the other factors are =
Brian Moon <herew...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:9c9ng5$7cp2$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...

Paul Nevins

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Apr 28, 2001, 7:25:32 PM4/28/01

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As in a pipe organ a C trumpet is 4feet long.

Paul Nevins
"Karl Morten Dahl" <k...@nospam.totem.fix.no> wrote in message
news:slrn9eg5o...@totem.fix.no...

Karl Morten Dahl

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Apr 29, 2001, 3:11:57 PM4/29/01

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I used the formula f= 2*v/(2L) to estimate the 'thoeretical' length of the tube. Where v is
the speed of sound (I used 343.7 m/s) and L is the tubes length. With Bb being 233.08 Hz I
found the length to be 147,46 cm. I've also estimated the deviaton from the tempered scale for
all combinations of valves activated. I read somewhere that the "1.5 halftone" valve usually
isn't tune down 3 tempered halftones but 3.29 tempered halftones because you don't need
the single use of this valve because you can use the other two valves to get 1.5 halftone down.
By doing this you get less deviaton from the tempered scale.

Sorry for my limited english and trumpet knowledge.

Karl M.