Doc's alleged Double-C on a string
Doc
> Doc Severinsen once played a double C with his trumpet hanging from a string > on the tonight show...no pressure at all.
> Chip Torgerson
> ch...@nespy.com
I've heard variations on this story, and about various players. If
Chip is still lurking about, do you claim to have seen this yourself?
When do you say this demonstration took place? Unless someone can
point me toward a video of the alleged event, I say it's a trumpet
urban legend. (besides that these "play on a string" demos are
pointless)
I'm as big a fan of Doc's as anyone and know he has super range but he
seems to be working pretty hard at playing a double C with both hands.
On the recording of Up-Up-And-Away on Trumpets and Crumpets And
Things, he never does quite squeeze the double-C at the end up to
completely in tune, and on that clip where Johnny had him play his
"highest note", he was working pretty hard on a B, so it's not like
it's utterly effortless for him enough to be able to do it with so
little pressure. Can anyone here document (On video) ANY player doing
this?
Tommy T.
Spangled Banner in the Superdome the first time the Superbowl was held
there. It didn't sound that great -- very different timbre than the rest of
the piece -- and was not effortless.
Closest I can come to an eyewitness account is Mendez and a high C. I saw
this during a clinic he did for high school trumpet players in Indiana when
I was in high school in the late '50's. It was a fully supported note with
good tone and no obvious effort at all.
Tommy T.
DuBois
This was all hashed out to death a few months ago,
but Doc cannot play a cappella. "A cappella" means
singing with no instrumental accompaniment. To call
a solo instrumental "a cappella" is to misuse the
term.
Tommy T.
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means
just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many
different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's
all.'
Alan
> I found this post from Chip Torgerson:
>
> > Doc Severinsen once played a double C with his trumpet hanging from a string > on the tonight show...no pressure at all.
>
I saw Maynard Ferguson do this in about 1975 (plus or minus a year) at
a clinic he gave in Chapel Hill NC. The horn was suspended on a
string and he did play a double high C (though not the ear-splitting
triple-forte version he usually played). OTOH I have also heard that
he told his dentist he uses LOTS of pressure when playing gigs.
Supposedly Herbert Clarke did this feat once, and regretted it for
years later. According to Claude Gordon (himself a student of Clarke),
the event was quoted and misrepresented, implying that Clarke
advocated "no pressure" which was not what he advocated (according to
Gordon).
mar...@webtv.net
press. while playing range exercises.
Left hand with 1st finger only around third valve and my left thumb,
vertical between 1st and second casing.
Wish they made trumpets without the horn ring or removable like a slide,
just for practice.
Doc
> docsa...@yahoo.com (Doc) wrote in message news:<f0c1bc20.02042...@posting.google.com>...
> > I found this post from Chip Torgerson:
> >
> > > Doc Severinsen once played a double C with his trumpet hanging from a string > on the tonight show...no pressure at all.
> >
>
> I saw Maynard Ferguson do this in about 1975 (plus or minus a year) at
> a clinic he gave in Chapel Hill NC. The horn was suspended on a
> string and he did play a double high C (though not the ear-splitting
> triple-forte version he usually played). OTOH I have also heard that
> he told his dentist he uses LOTS of pressure when playing gigs.
>
Well....okay... When you say he "played" a double-C, did this amount
to anything more than making a lip-squeak into the mouthpiece such as
one can do without the mouthpiece by making "chimpanzee lips" and a
short burst of air?
> Supposedly Herbert Clarke did this feat once, and regretted it for
> years later. According to Claude Gordon (himself a student of Clarke),
> the event was quoted and misrepresented, implying that Clarke
> advocated "no pressure" which was not what he advocated (according to
> Gordon).
The reason these kind of stunt demonstrations are pointless is that
they don't "prove" anything. Allegedly it's supposed to demonstrate
that you don't need pressure no matter how high and loud you play,
which is a load of crap. EVERY strong highnoter I've ever seen uses a
lot of pressure. Any time I see Doc pull the horn away after a searing
double-whatever there's a big 'ol white spot on his chops. Ditto
Maynard, Walt Johnson, Mark Zauss (formerly of Disney's Hollywood
Hitmen & Futurecorps), Chase, etc. etc. I don't know if there's any
film footage of Clark playing high but I guarantee he used pressure to
play high.
jazz...@hotmail.com
>
> The reason these kind of stunt demonstrations are pointless is that
> they don't "prove" anything. Allegedly it's supposed to demonstrate
> that you don't need pressure no matter how high and loud you play,
The demonstration is supposed to show that you don't need as much arm
pressure as you THINK you need, and the demonstration is usually made to
folks who use more pressure than they need to (high school and young
college students).
If the result is that the people for whom the demonstration is given are
prompted to use less pressure, then it's a successful tool to illustrate
the concept, and who cares what it proves.
--
Jeff Helgesen
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/
JClark
looks as though he is NOT using LOTS of pressure.
"Doc" <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.02042...@posting.google.com...
William E. Graham
the floor beneath your horn. I saw one guy break the string
and get a dent in his horn that he didn't need.......
<jazz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa9a2r$33v$1...@roundup.shout.net...
Doc
I care. Deeply..If we all showed more caring the world would be a
better place for all creatures great and (snip Stevie Wonder-esque
rant of benevolence)
On the one hand, I suppose there's some benefit in making people aware
of this issue, but I'm also concerned about it having a misleading
effect. I believe that some player's equipment (i.e. chops) are more
conducive to reduced pressure playing just as some people can
free-buzz extremely high simply due to how their chops are formed and
someone else who gets it in their head that it's imperative to emulate
this is wasting their time. Someone might be led to conclude that
they're doing something "wrong" if they can't play with this
feather-light kind of mouthpiece contact and beat their brains out
trying to emulate it, and potentially hamper their development.
I knew this guy who was a non-pressure freak. He was also the joke of
the music dept. He would "demonstrate" this...and sounded like a
wounded goat - airy, raspy but boy he didn't use much pressure.
Interestingly, he took lessons from the same teacher as the best
player we had.
Along with such a demonstration, it needs to be explained that minimal
pressure isn't the ultimate goal, sound, power and consistency are. If
someone is truly using excessive pressure, I don't think they're going
to sound that great, certainly endurance isn't going to be there.
Somebody else here said what I think is the right thing - use as much
pressure as you have to and no more/less.
Doc
> In all the times that I have seen Scott Englebright perform it certainly
> looks as though he is NOT using LOTS of pressure.
>
>
>
Define "lots".....How much can be determined by simply watching? I bet
he's using more pressure on a double C than you do on a high C.
Doc
> Doc played a double high C on "free" at the end of the a capella Star
> Spangled Banner in the Superdome the first time the Superbowl was held
> there. It didn't sound that great -- very different timbre than the rest of
> the piece -- and was not effortless.
>
the universe watching, chops not feeling up to snuff, in your gut you
know you really don't have that double C in you today, having to
squeeze it out anyway....I wonder why he didn't just stay on the G and
milk it, since that seems to be his pet note. Doc plays the biggest,
fattest G's in the universe.
Joe Pero
-use equipment that makes the task at hand the easiest, mouthpiece and horn.
This will promote longevity in ones career.
-utilize proper breathing techniques(yoga for instance) and posture; this will
also make the job at hand easier in MANY settings. This will also promote
longevity in ones career.
-with the harboring of these factors, you will be able to achieve your desired
effect, in addition, you will need MUCH less pressure for not only upper
register, but all around the horn.
Feel free to email me with any questions.
Joe Pero
Joseph J. Pero
http://hometown.aol.com/nycstudentmtrpt2/