How does one use the 1st and 3rd valve tuning slides whilst playing?
Annabel Barnes
I "upgraded" to a Bach 180 6 months ago and have been ignoring the tuning
throws on the 1st and 3rd valves. At my last exam the examiner remarked that
I
should be using them to correct the pitch of notes rather than lipping them.
I went back to look at the syllabus and sure enough it says "Accurate
intonation, including the use of left hand movement of third and first valve
slides while playing".
However I can't find any text book that explains how this is achieved - so
my questions to the group:
1) What grip should one use to so as to be able to control the slide on
the 3rd valve (I have small hands)
2) Am I expected to move the slide when playing scales - or is it only
used to adjust sustained notes?
3) How does one overcome the resistance that the 1st & 3rd valve slide
have to movement unless the corresponding valve is depressed (this is sort
of tied in with the answer to question 2 as on fast passages there isn't
time to press the valve then move the tuning slide)
4) The Bach 180 has an end stop on the 3rd valve slide - is this just
to stop the valve slide falling out or am I expected to adjust to the
required throw on the slide. If the latter how do I avoid it making an
audible clink when the slide hits the end?
Thank you in advance for any help you can give me
Annabel
(P.S. To email me replace NewSouthWales with NSW)
Bookman
> 1) What grip should one use to so as to be able to control the
slide on
> the 3rd valve (I have small hands)
>
Even though I have pretty big hands, I would suggest using your middle
finger to adjust your third slide.
> 2) Am I expected to move the slide when playing scales - or is it
only
> used to adjust sustained notes?
>
It depends on how good you are at lipping notes up or down. I don't
use my slides when playing scales, because I have been playing scales
long enough to know what notes are flat or sharp. But for someone like
you who "just doesn't know", use your slide on everything!
> 3) How does one overcome the resistance that the 1st & 3rd valve
slide
> have to movement unless the corresponding valve is depressed (this
is sort
> of tied in with the answer to question 2 as on fast passages there
isn't
> time to press the valve then move the tuning slide)
>
Like I said on number 2, it depends on how good your intonation is. It
also depends on if you are playing unison with 8 other trumpet
players. If second line A's, low D's, low C sharps, or first E's sound
like crap, use your slides. But if you are playing a solo, maybe
something fast like the last variation of the Arban Carneval of Venice,
I wouldn't use the third valve slide on the low D's or first slide on
second line A's. Once again, depends on how your intonation is.
> 4) The Bach 180 has an end stop on the 3rd valve slide - is this
just
> to stop the valve slide falling out or am I expected to adjust to the
> required throw on the slide. If the latter how do I avoid it making an
> audible clink when the slide hits the end?
>
Put the stop all the way out to the end for low C sharps. The slide
should be half-way out for low D's. If you don't like the clanking
noise, buy O-Rings!
--
Michael Bookman Jr.
Lead trumpet Brooke Mays Music can inhale my hairy left nut Bigband
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Andrew Morrison
air in the slides is enclosed. If you try to move the valve slides without
pushing the valves down then it's like covering the end of a syringe and
trying to move the plunger. To be honest if the music is fast enough for you
not to notice whether or not the notes are in tune it doesn't really matter.
By the way it's not necessarily "all the way out for C#s" and "half way out
for Ds" - it depends on your lips and your trumpet. When you get used to it
you'll know instinctively how far to push them out for different notes to be
in tune and it'll become automatic.
Jack
You're a okay. Good advice! You and "Pops" and another handful of
intelligent individuals (unnamed, but obvious from your posts!) are the
only ones that make this newsgroup worthwhile. Can the vulgarity that
you pretty much now seem to have under control and you get my vote.
I've visited your web site. It's listed on the ITG web site and despite
dire warnings from my DELL computer didn't infect me. Good show!
For the rest of you that can't resist flaming me, I use ultra pure valve
oil, play a Schilke 24 on a Bach 37 Sterling Strad using the inside of
my lips to attempt a closed aperture via Laurie Frink and Carmen Caruso
writings, and participate from lead to third book in various community
concert and swing bands. For a 72 year old fart that is a comeback
player and trumpet student for the past ten years, I would encourage
innovation among my colleagues rather than put-down innocent questions
and comments that don't meet your prejudged criteria.
Jack Gibson-Massachusetts (known as Mass-Jack to former flamers on
ultra-pure lamp oil)
BlastMaster
tuning slide, and it also affects the tone, so I would recommend
using it whenever it's practical to do so. For you, that
probably means using it even in practice sessions so that you
get used to the mechanics.
You can also cheat and leave the slide out (esp. the 3rd slide)
if you have a line which requires the third valve only for
several low Ds and/or C#s but where you feel you'd like to have
the pitch corrected...
-- jeff
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The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Greg Glassmeyer
intonation problems. In time you'll become comfortable with how far out to
throw the slides on each problem note.
Sharon Curtis
>
>
>> 1) What grip should one use to so as to be able to control the
>slide on
>> the 3rd valve (I have small hands)
>>
>
>Even though I have pretty big hands, I would suggest using your middle
>finger to adjust your third slide.
As a further data point, from a woman with small hands, I don't find
it comfortable using anything but my little finger to move the slide,
and that's just fine, it moves no trouble at all.
Sharon
Bookman
> As a further data point, from a woman with small hands, I don't find
> it comfortable using anything but my little finger to move the slide,
> and that's just fine, it moves no trouble at all.
>
> Sharon
>
Yeah, that's great for you, but I think it was a guy that started the
post. I believe you should use the longest finger on your left hand,
so you can throw the slide out all the way on low c#'s. I also believe
you should grip the horn tightly with the left hand for more stability
or pressure if you want to call it that. I'm not trying to be sexist
here, but the biggest problem in my female students, is that they want
to finesse the horn too much. It takes pressure to play high, that's
just a fact.
--
Michael Bookman Jr.
Lead trumpet Crater face Bigband
Chris
> I believe you should use the longest finger on your left hand,
>so you can throw the slide out all the way on low c#'s.
First things first - as long as you can throw the slide all the way out,
who cares what finger it is? I guess for you, maybe... you know what they
say about guys with small hands, though...
Second, even if you can't get it that far with ALL your fingers, there's
more things to playing a trumpet that getting that 3rd valve slide thrown
all the way on the only note on the horn you (might need to) give a shit
about being able to kick it out that far.
I've found that (for me - not for everyone) having my middle finger on the
valve casings gives me a little more stability to my grip, and improves my
tone and consitency. For a long time I used my middle finger in the slide
ring, and my ring finger and pinky beneath the slide. Switching to my ring
finger in the ring was an improvement.
If I found that I sounded better on every note across my range with a
particular grip (or had better endurance, or whatever), but couldn't throw
the slide out far enough on C#, I would do one of two things:
1. Live with it, I hardly ever play that note, and when I do, I can change
my grip for just that passage if I feel I need to in order to stay in tune.
2. Have my local shop move the ring or change it to a trigger or some
other damned thing to solve the problem - it's just a hunk of metal, man,
you can change it to make it work for you.
>I also believe
>you should grip the horn tightly with the left hand for more stability
>or pressure if you want to call it that.
And I believe that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just one man's
opinion. I don't see how a tight grip translates to stability... maybe
we're back at that small hands thing again.
>I'm not trying to be sexist
>here,
You don't need to try, it seems to come quite naturally to you.
>but the biggest problem in my female students, is that they want
>to finesse the horn too much. It takes pressure to play high, that's
>just a fact.
What does it take to have a good tone? Or have you ever thought about it?
You know, for every big band (and there aren't that many that are going to
pay you money, my friend), there are (more or less) five trumpet players.
The ones that need to concentrate on having good tone throughout their
range outnumber you 4 to 1. (In the studio, orchestra, or brass quintet,
they outnumber you all to none.)
And from what I've heard on this group so far, after you're out of school,
you'll be lucky to be one of those 4.
- Chris
Bookman
This is what works for me jackass.
--
Michael Bookman Jr.
Lead trumpet fired up again Bigband
mm
About three days ago someone apologized to you for their rude comments.
You owe somebody an apology for a post like this one below. It works
both ways, remember.
M Magers