old English Besson cornet
sabel
recently acquired via eBay. It is an English Besson "Prototype" model,
engraved "Class A New Creation", with beautiful,flowery engraving on the
bell. It is silver plated, and has a stop on the main tuning slide for
quick tuning to A. The lead pipe is a little narrower than on modern
cornets. I believe it was manufactured around 1885 or so. Serial # is
104xxx. Any thoughts on actual age, worth, etc.?___George Sabel
Jay T. Carrigan
N.Y. / SOLE AGENT IN U. STATES". It came with a certificate saying
that it was personally tested by Edwin Franco Goldman on Aug. 1,
1919.
I had a separate tuning slide made for A, and I use the "quick
change" slide (pretty worthless when you think about it) to replace
the 3rd valve slide, which this model doesn't have.
--
Jay Carrigan change domain to erols
In article <37810303...@carroll.com>, sa...@carroll.com says...
sabel
type of mouthpiece have you found to fit properly?___George
Jay T. Carrigan
reamed out a little bit. It's now able to take any modern cornet
mouthpiece.
--
Jay Carrigan change domain to erols
In article <3781698C...@carroll.com>, sa...@carroll.com says...
Howard Peirce
> Thanks Jay. George
>
> "Jay T. Carrigan" wrote:
>
> > Yep. I forgot that I had that modified too. I think it was just
> > reamed out a little bit. It's now able to take any modern cornet
> > mouthpiece.
Um, before reaming out your receiver, you know that Denis Wick makes cornet mpcs
with the "English shank"--a smaller mouthpiece shank that's still the standard
for the modern Boosey/Besson Sovereigns and other British-style cornets.
I'd try the Wick with the English shank, and if necessary you can adjust the
outer shank taper *very carefully* with a loop a fine abrasive paper.
But for crying out loud don't ream the receiver of a fine vintage horn.
HP
sabel
Padraic Brown
you don't already have one, that is. Watch Ebay for "old cornet
mouthpiece" auctions and similar.
Padraic Brown.
sabel (sa...@carroll.com) wrote:
: Thanks Howard. Will definitely the Wick. George
sabel
There is no question in my mind but that mouthpiece technology has improved
considerably since the turn of the century. George
Howard Peirce
> Actually, the horn came with its original leather case and 3 original mouthpieces.
> There is no question in my mind but that mouthpiece technology has improved
> considerably since the turn of the century. George
I'm curious as to where you see the improvement. In consistency, you may be right (but
then there's Bach). Materials (brass alloys, plating) have doubtless improved. Other
things, like the width of the rim or the depth of the cup, are largely questions of
fashion--although it's difficult to get a period sound without a period mouthpiece. A
modern mpc gets a modern sound, even on a period horn.
This is an extreme example, but I once played around with a natural trumpet--the first
time with a modern Tarr mouthpiece for natural trumpet, the second time with a
museum-piece 400-year-old mouthpiece. The 16th c. mouthpiece--a four-pound lump of pitted
and corroded raw brass, with a 1/2-inch wide flat rim and almost no cup--played like a
dream next to the Tarr. It was the right mpc for the horn.
HP
Padraic Brown
: sabel wrote:
>> Actually, the horn came with its original leather case and 3 original
>> mouthpieces. There is no question in my mind but that mouthpiece
>> technology has improved considerably since the turn of the century.
>> George
> I'm curious as to where you see the improvement. In consistency, you may
> be right (but then there's Bach). Materials (brass alloys, plating) have
> doubtless improved. Other things, like the width of the rim or the depth
> of the cup, are largely questions of fashion--although it's difficult to
> get a period sound without a period mouthpiece. A modern mpc gets a
> modern sound, even on a period horn.
I am somewhat curious as well: if modern mouthpiece manufacture is so much
better, why bother with old piece of junk horn? Surely horns are made
much better anymore as well?
> This is an extreme example, but I once played around with a natural
> trumpet--the first time with a modern Tarr mouthpiece for natural
> trumpet, the second time with a museum-piece 400-year-old mouthpiece.
> The 16th c. mouthpiece--a four-pound lump of pitted and corroded raw
> brass, with a 1/2-inch wide flat rim and almost no cup--played like a
> dream next to the Tarr. It was the right mpc for the horn.
Neat!
Padraic Brown.
> HP
Tom Warner
> Um, before reaming out your receiver, you know that Denis Wick makes
> cornet mpcs with the "English shank"--a smaller mouthpiece shank that's
> still the standard for the modern Boosey/Besson Sovereigns and other
> British-style cornets.
I've seen this stated before and it confuses me. In the Wick catalogs
I've seen there is no mention of differing size shanks or 'English
shanks'.
I play a Besson Sovereign and I have mouthpieces by Wick, Bach,Schike
and Monette and they all fit. What gives?
All the best, Tom
sabel
significantly more resistance than my Dennis Wick 2 and Bach 3 mp's, and are therefore harder
to play, although the cornet sound is similar. I assume the improvement in the modern mp's
are in backbore design. George
Howard Peirce wrote:
> sabel wrote:
>
> > Actually, the horn came with its original leather case and 3 original mouthpieces.
> > There is no question in my mind but that mouthpiece technology has improved
> > considerably since the turn of the century. George
>
> I'm curious as to where you see the improvement. In consistency, you may be right (but
> then there's Bach). Materials (brass alloys, plating) have doubtless improved. Other
> things, like the width of the rim or the depth of the cup, are largely questions of
> fashion--although it's difficult to get a period sound without a period mouthpiece. A
> modern mpc gets a modern sound, even on a period horn.
>
> This is an extreme example, but I once played around with a natural trumpet--the first
> time with a modern Tarr mouthpiece for natural trumpet, the second time with a
> museum-piece 400-year-old mouthpiece. The 16th c. mouthpiece--a four-pound lump of pitted
> and corroded raw brass, with a 1/2-inch wide flat rim and almost no cup--played like a
> dream next to the Tarr. It was the right mpc for the horn.
>
> HP