Stupid valve oil questions
stanton
valve oil, or alternately, Zaja Oil. After I give my horn a bath I pick
one oil and stay with that one exclusively.
The problem is that during the summer, I'll play concerts where we wear
white shirts. I seem to get grime from the bottom of the valve caps on
my shirts which never seem to come clean. This stuff is BLACK! I know
that I've got this stupid habit of pulling the horn into my body, but in
the outdoor scenarios, it is really easy to get your horn banged by a
passing music stand or some other musician trying to climb over on his
way to the boys' room. I've tried getting a grime gutter, and though it
kept the grime from oozing out of the caps the stuff seems to back up
into the horn!
1)Why will clear valve oil like Al Cass get so black as you play?
2) Is there something that can be done to keep the valve oil in its
original consistency (purety)?
3) Anyone have any tricks to keep the valve oil off their good clothes?
Thanks,
SK
Dr. Trumpet
Stanton,
From my experience, the Pro Oil Hybrid does not stain like other oils. My
wife uses SHOUT on my bad staines, but has noticed less since I switched
to Pro Oil Hybrid about a year ago. Just another benefit of this fine
oil!
AL
PaulMPacak
what I believe you're actually seeing is clear valve oil with billions of
micron sized particles of valve and valve casing material suspended in the
solution. As the valves move up and down inside the casing, there is always a
certain amount of abrasion taking place; what is abrading off becomes mixed
with the valve oil giving it a blackish appearance.
Paul
RHAAPANEN
the bottom of the valve casings. I use one on my Bach 43 and my white shirts
remain white. My home made valve oil is really nasty in terms of staining.
Nothing takes out the black stains!
Roger Haapanen, older but wiser
Howard Peirce
I'm just guessing, but I always assumed the suspended particles were corrosion
dissolved in the oil, rather than abraded metal. Either way, I suppose, you're
losing a little bit of your valves.
HP
David Rice
You can dress some people up, but you can't take them out!
Dave
--
-----------------------------------------------------
"Due to a shortage of trumpet players,
the end of the world has been postponed indefinitely."
Donald L. Winters
try. I'm now a believer. I don't know about shirt stains, but it does a
great job on trumpet valves.
Don Winters
GeDDoN
> 1)Why will clear valve oil like Al Cass get so black as you play?
I think its the same way metal polish turns black? I am not sure. But it
must be some chemical reaction between the oil and the air or something like
that.
> 2) Is there something that can be done to keep the valve oil in its
> original consistency (purety)?
Yea, keep it in the bottle.
> 3) Anyone have any tricks to keep the valve oil off their good clothes?
I usually clean out the bottom valve caps. I mean really clean it out, flush
it in warm water with soap and scrub the black stuff out. The semi dried oil
usually sticks on the valve caps and when diluted with fresh valve oil or
saliva/condensation ( whatever ), trickles down and hangs on the hole,
waiting for some fabric or musical score to absorb them.
Pour out excess valve oil from the valve caps. You shouldn't apply so much
valve oil anyway, it just gets wiped down the valve casings.
Just from my experience.
PaulMPacak
This reinforces my earlier point that superior valve oil will equal less
friction and abrasion, which will mean less valve and casing particulate
suspended in the excess oil, which of course will mean less black stains on
your clothing. I would suggest cleaning both the valves and casing thoroughly
before using a different oil, otherwise, there's still abrasive residue
sloshing around in there which will impede the new oil and continue to cause
excessive wear and tear.
Paul
LeliaLoban
>PaulMPacak <paulm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:19990723130752...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
>> >1)Why will clear valve oil like Al Cass get so black as you play?
>>
>> micron sized particles of valve and valve casing material suspended in the
>> solution. As the valves move up and down inside the casing, there is
>always a
>> certain amount of abrasion taking place; what is abrading off becomes
>mixed
>> with the valve oil giving it a blackish appearance.
I'm not a chemist, either, but as a stained glass artist, I've worked with a
number of oils and acids in various combinatations (in patinas) that will
oxydize in contact with metal. The acid-containing oils made for stained glass
work are designed to eat into the metal, to make the color permanent
deliberately, but other oils, including some that are just lubricants, can turn
dark in the bottle if I forget to put the cap on (i.e. the "juice" is exposed
to oxygen). Not sure this information translates from one medium to another,
but FWIW, it's possible you're just seeing darkening of the oil itself that
isn't *necessarily* hurting the valves. Or it could be that there's just some
dirt inside and the oil is picking it up and carrying it out. I couldn't
believe the crud that came out of my old cornet I bought at a flea market, even
after I'd washed it once and thought it was clean in there.
Lelia
Please delete NOSPAM from my address to reply by e-mail.
RAD
something called SpaceFiller Ultimate II, the Yamaha oil which came
with my new cornet, and the Pro-Oil Hybrid 141-A7. While certainly
the Zaja smells the best, I still keep going back to Al Cass as my
favorite. My valves just seem slightly faster when I use the Al Cass
oil. Before using the Pro-Oil I followed the instructions on cleaning
the valves and valve chambers, but felt the valves were just a bit
slower using it than with the Al Cass. My horns are: a French Besson
Marvin Stamm 92BB trumpet, a Yamaha 631 flugelhorn, and a new Yamaha
2330 cornet....
Bob D.
Atlanta
dr_trpt-...@hotmail.com (Dr. Trumpet) wrote:
>In article <3797E9...@wwa.com>, stanton <sta...@wwa.com> wrote:
>
>> There's nothing unusual about my horn, mouthpiece, etc. I'll use Al Cass
>> valve oil, or alternately, Zaja Oil. After I give my horn a bath I pick
>> one oil and stay with that one exclusively.
>>
>> The problem is that during the summer, I'll play concerts where we wear
>> white shirts. I seem to get grime from the bottom of the valve caps on
>> my shirts which never seem to come clean. This stuff is BLACK! I know
>> that I've got this stupid habit of pulling the horn into my body, but in
>> the outdoor scenarios, it is really easy to get your horn banged by a
>> passing music stand or some other musician trying to climb over on his
>> way to the boys' room. I've tried getting a grime gutter, and though it
>> kept the grime from oozing out of the caps the stuff seems to back up
>> into the horn!
>>
>> 1)Why will clear valve oil like Al Cass get so black as you play?
>>
>> 2) Is there something that can be done to keep the valve oil in its
>> original consistency (purety)?
>>
>> 3) Anyone have any tricks to keep the valve oil off their good clothes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> SK
>
>Stanton,
>
>From my experience, the Pro Oil Hybrid does not stain like other oils. My
>wife uses SHOUT on my bad staines, but has noticed less since I switched
>to Pro Oil Hybrid about a year ago. Just another benefit of this fine
>oil!
>
>AL
Dr. Trumpet
> For what it's worth, I've tried Al Cass oil, strawberry Zaja oil,
> something called SpaceFiller Ultimate II, the Yamaha oil which came
> with my new cornet, and the Pro-Oil Hybrid 141-A7. While certainly
> the Zaja smells the best, I still keep going back to Al Cass as my
> favorite. My valves just seem slightly faster when I use the Al Cass
> oil. Before using the Pro-Oil I followed the instructions on cleaning
> the valves and valve chambers, but felt the valves were just a bit
> slower using it than with the Al Cass. My horns are: a French Besson
> Marvin Stamm 92BB trumpet, a Yamaha 631 flugelhorn, and a new Yamaha
> 2330 cornet....
>
> Bob D.
> Atlanta
>
Nothing works for everyone! Al Cass makes the valves on all my trumpets
slower than just about every other thing I use, including Yamaha,
Ultra-Pure lamp oil (my oil of choice for almost 7 years) and nearly all
the others you mentioned. I'll stick with my Pro-Oil Hybrid, and hope
that the Al Cass continues to work for you as well!
AL
GeDDoN
> micron sized particles of valve and valve casing material suspended in the
> solution.
Really? Incredible.... If its true, boy are my valves wearing out! It must
be some kind of oxidation like when you polish your instrument. Metal polish
is acidic and reacts with the surface molecules to form an oxide which can
be wiped off, something like speeding up the tarnishing so much the topmost
layer breaks off and can be wiped off, or dissolving the surface molecules
of the metal.
Whatever, i am not yet a chemist ( i am a student, haha )
PaulMPacak <paulm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990723130752...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> >1)Why will clear valve oil like Al Cass get so black as you play?
>
> what I believe you're actually seeing is clear valve oil with billions of
> micron sized particles of valve and valve casing material suspended in the
> solution. As the valves move up and down inside the casing, there is
always a
> certain amount of abrasion taking place; what is abrading off becomes
mixed
> with the valve oil giving it a blackish appearance.
>
> Paul
>
Soccrfan01
me. Some of the others I used would dry out while we were on the field
practicing in the heat.
Ed Grant
Bundy (lacquer finish) usually collect quite a bit of "water", but it's
always clear. The bottom caps on my Besson BE800 (silver) collect the black
"gunk" you describe. I used to think it was maybe particles of silver
oxide..but that doesn't make sense because the silver isn't on the inside of
the valves. Same oil used on both instruments... Al Cass.
Hmmmmm..................
Soccrfan01 <soccr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990726001312...@ng-xa1.aol.com...
RAD
Pro-Oil Hybrid? I bought it after reading about how great it was,
perhaps from you, on this site, and maybe I'm not using it right. I
washed out the valves and chambers with soapy water as instructed,
dried them pretty well, and then used the oil fairly liberally. The
valves worked okay, but as I said, just seemed to be a little slower
and less slippery than with the Al Cass. Could be my imagination.
When splitting hairs, it's sometimes difficult to be exact in ones
perceptions, you know? I know I have to use the Al Cass just about
every day to keep the valves moving freely. I'd be interested in how
you use the Pro-Oil to get such good results. Thanks.
Bob D.
Atlanta
Gary Persons
> Nothing works for everyone! Al Cass makes the valves on all my
> trumpets slower than just about every other thing I use,
I wonder if there's some sort of chemical reaction with the oil and the
player's saliva. I tried a bunch of valve oils a few years ago, and
nothing I could find beat Al Cass for me (plus, it's cheap!)
!^NavFont02F01400008JGA0HH4106C2
Darin Harada
a theory. I'd been having trouble with the valves on my Strad for
several years, and thought that perhaps it was the oil. I tried the
Pro-Oil Hybrid, which worked very well on my one-year-old Yamaha C.
Unfortunately, it made the valves stick from time to time. Then I
recalled reading something about the Hybrid oil being created for
"today's ultra tight-fitting valves". Figuring that my Bach's valves
were pretty worn down (a twenty-year old horn that has been played by
three different owners regularly since purchase), I thought of using a
thicker oil. Employing the viscosity chart on the Musichem site, I
selected the old Red Pro-Oil, which worked incredibly well and which I
still use.
So here's the theory: a particular oil will work well on one particular
set of valves due to the tolerances between the valve and its casing
(aka "the right tool for the right job").
Comments?
Darin Harada (who does not work for Musichem)
dar...@hawaii.edu
Alan Rouse
Darin Harada <dar...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
> So here's the theory: a particular oil will work well on one particular
> set of valves due to the tolerances between the valve and its casing
> (aka "the right tool for the right job").
>
I think body chemistry has an effect. For example if I use Al Cass I get
deposits on my valves in a matter of a couple of days. I use Ultra Pure
Candle Lamp Oil (the clear type which is virtually pure parrafin)and I get NO
deposits on the valves. (I refill an old Al Cass container with the ultrapure
stuff).
It's the longest lasting oil I've tried--and it is $3 a PINT at the corner
grocery store.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.